Loving The Lost Mormon

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If you want to open your Bibles to 2 Corinthians, New Testament book, 2

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Corinthians chapter 11. And we're also going to be reading from Galatians chapter 1, 2

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Corinthians chapter 11. Hear now the word of the living and the true

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God. I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me, for I feel a divine jealousy for you.

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Since I betrothed you to one husband to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.

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But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

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For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

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And then on to Galatians chapter 1 from the Apostle Paul again, starting in verse 1.

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Paul, an apostle, not from man nor through man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the

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Father who raised him from the dead, and all the brothers who are with me, to the churches of Galatia, grace to you and peace from God our

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Father and the Lord Jesus Christ who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age according to the will of our

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God and Father to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen. I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel, not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

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But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

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As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed, for am

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I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man?

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If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a slave of Messiah. Thus far as the reading of God's holy and inspired word, let's pray together.

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God, please bless today us as a church, as your children, as your people.

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Bless us as we, Lord, look at your word and we think about it in the light of a false gospel, a perversion of your truth.

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People who lie about you, Lord, your nature, your character, your love, your grace, your mercy, your gospel.

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Help us, Lord, to learn, Lord, from your word who you really are. And, Lord, learn about how glorious your gospel truly is.

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We pray, God, for our witness and our testimony to our community, our present community around us,

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Lord, the Mormon people around us that we love so much. We pray, Lord, that you would bring them out of it to a true and saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

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Use us, God, to take away the foundations of that perversion of the truth.

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Use us to lead so many of your sheep out of the Mormon community into Christ.

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We pray that you'd bless us. Give us humility. Give us boldness. Give us love. We pray this in Jesus' name.

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Amen. So, those two passages of scripture, obviously, you know, if you've been here for any length of time, you know that we've talked about these passages before.

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2 Corinthians 11, Galatians 1, the centrality of the person of Jesus Christ and the gospel itself.

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Now, one thing I want to highlight, because it's very important to highlight, this is the Apostle Paul within a generation of the life and ministry of the

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Lord Jesus, his death and resurrection and ascension. This is the Apostle Paul who has his conversion, turns to Christ, and God uses the

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Apostle Paul to spread the good news of the kingdom around the Roman Empire in that first generation in powerful ways.

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And here we are within decades of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and the

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Apostle Paul has to give letters to churches who are already now having to contend with false versions of who

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Jesus is, other spirits, other gospels. My point in addressing this right now in these two sections is just this.

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This is not something that is just unique to our generation. Like we have, of course, in this great

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American experiment, so many apocalyptic cults that rose up in the 19th century.

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And that is true. We did. You have the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, you had the

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Shakers, you had the Mormons, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints. The 19th century was filled with a number of end times apocalyptic movements and cults.

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And of course, in this generation alone, we have seen exactly that in religions or movements like even

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Heaven's Gate or the Branch Davidians. We've seen those who take the Word of God, they use

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Christian language, and yet they deceive, they distort the meaning of the Scriptures, they provide entirely new definitions, and yet they speak

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Christianese, they use our language, they talk about Jesus, they talk about gospel.

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And you're tempted at times to think, is this just sort of a 20th century or a 21st century thing?

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Like we have to deal with these things. All these religions that co -opt Christian language, they ape

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Christianity, and yet they distort the gospel. Is it unique to us? And I want to encourage you with this.

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It's not meant to be a discouragement, but an encouragement. It's the same problem that the early church in the most ancient form, the earliest church, had to deal with.

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People who would distort who Jesus is. People who would distort the gospel.

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And wouldn't you know it? That is precisely what the enemy of our souls would go for, to give you a false

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Christ who doesn't exist, who can't save. What does Jesus say about himself and his ministry?

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He says, I am the way and the truth and the life. No man comes to the

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Father but by me. Now, make no mistake about it, that is a fundamental claim of the

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Christian faith. You can't get around it. People try. Universalists will try to get around that. Others will try to get around that.

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But that's a claim of Jesus, like it or not, take it or leave it. Jesus said that he was God in the flesh.

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He called himself I Am. He took the prerogatives of God. He said that he was speaking

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God's words. He said that he was the full expression of the

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Father and his will in this world. And Jesus said that he was the way, the truth, and the life.

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No man comes to the Father but by me. Why is that so vital? It's vital because you can see in the first century, in 2

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Corinthians 11, the Apostle Paul is dealing with that exact thing. People who use the word

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Jesus, they say Jesus. We believe in Jesus, and Paul says that's another

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Christ. That's another spirit. That's not the Jesus that can save you. He's saying to them in 2

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Corinthians, I am worried about you. I'm worried about you. I'm amazed. You're so quickly deserting him who called you by, here it is, the grace of Christ, to another gospel, he says there.

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In Galatians and 2 Corinthians 11, same issues coming together. It's a Jesus who can't save, and it's a gospel that cannot save you.

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Because if you're trusting in a Christ who does not exist, it's not the true and living Christ. You're not coming to be united to the true

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Savior who can actually save you from your sins. And if you're trusting in a gospel that is a perversion of the gospel, you are ultimately denying the righteousness of Jesus by faith, and you are trusting ultimately in yourself, your own righteousness, your own works, and there is only one righteousness that saves and that is only available through faith in Jesus Christ.

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This is what Paul dealt with in the first century. False versions of Jesus, false gospels. And it's so amazing when you consider just that section in Galatians.

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What was he dealing with? It's a very short letter. It's very short. He's dealing with the Judaizers. He's dealing with people who would have said they believe that Jesus is

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Mashiach, that He's the Messiah. Yeah, no problems there. Sure, Jesus is the Messiah. But they were saying that there was something that you had to do other than turning to Christ, faith in Christ, trusting in Him and Him alone, something else you needed to do in terms of your identity to enter into this relationship with the

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Messiah. It wasn't just faith for Jews and Gentiles. It was also just keep this one thing.

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Just keep the circumcision. Just pull that over. Just keep that part.

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You've got to at least obey that part. It's faith in the Messiah, and you've just got to keep the circumcision.

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And Paul says that you've given up grace. Galatians 5, you've abandoned it all.

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It's become of no effect to you, he says, whosoever of you attempts to be justified by law, you've fallen from grace.

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What? What do you mean justified by law? We're just saying that you've got to keep that. You've got to keep that.

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It's a very important part of Jewish identity. Like if you're going to truly be part of this covenant, you've got to keep that identity of the covenant community.

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What do you mean I'm abandoning grace? Paul says make a choice. Make a choice. You're either going to choose in Christ, in His work, in His righteousness.

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You're going to receive this through faith apart from the works of the law, or you're going to choose law. Make a choice.

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And your choice in saying that you must keep this, you are abandoning grace, it's become of no effect to you.

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And he goes so far in that chapter to actually say to these people who were teaching that false gospel,

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I hope they go all the way, and they cut themselves off. He uses the serrated edge.

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Dun -dun -dun. He wants them to use the serrated edge, right? He's saying I hope you go all the way, cut yourselves off. You like to play with knives?

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I hope you go all the way. How's that feel? That's what Paul says about their perversion of the gospel.

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And he actually uses a very powerful word. He says their accursed in the English is anathema. He's saying if I do it, if I come back to you as Paul the apostle, or an angel came from heaven and preached any other gospel to you, let me, let that angel be anathema, eternally condemned, separated from God forever.

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That's how precious the gospel is. And, here it is, how precise the gospel is.

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The gospel comes with precision. How is a person reconciled to God?

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The most important question any of us could ever ask and have answered, how can

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I have peace with God? And here's why it's important, because there is only one true and living God. According to the scriptures, there's only one way to God, and you are made in the image of God.

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You're accountable to Him. This goes far beyond the issue of Mormonism. This goes into the issue of Rome, Roman Catholicism, the

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Jehovah's Witnesses, the Rosicrucians, the Christian scientists, the New Age, all of that stuff.

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It's all the same issue. How is a person going to be reconciled to God and have peace with God?

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And here's the point. With those two sections of scripture, in 2 Corinthians 11 and Galatians 1, it is very clear, through an inspired apostle, that there is only one

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Jesus that can save, and yet there are other Jesuses. There is only one gospel that can bring peace with God, and yet there are other gospels that cannot save.

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That's an enduring truth. It was true in the first century. It's true today. It's going to be true until Christ returns.

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Salvation is only in Jesus. Salvation is only in Jesus. And the gospel, there's only one gospel that can save.

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The gospel is the power of God for salvation. That's what Paul says in Romans 1. The gospel is the power of God for salvation.

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It's what God uses to save people. Preach a false one, and all you have left is dead people.

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If you want people to come to life, you have to preach the biblical gospel, the gospel of salvation only in Jesus.

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And it's a gospel that is a free gift through Jesus, all the glory to God alone.

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That's why this is important. Now, our particular history with the Mormon community, you guys heard some of it already, in 1996,

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I moved out here in 1996. I went to the Mormon Easter pageant for the first time. A young guy, 18 years old.

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I had a backpack full of tracts and a backpack full of tons of books, books that showed what their prophets have taught and spoken.

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I had their original books, their documents, history of the church. You used to have to carry this stuff because you didn't have this, access to this.

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It was hard. That thing was heavy. I have arthritis in my spine now. I'm convinced because I carried that thing for countless hours over decades, nowhere near the amount of decades that he did, but a lot, okay?

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In 1996, I went out and I, for the first time, met Pastor James there, and he was surrounded by a bunch of Mormon missionaries and young Mormons.

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At the time, you've heard us say this many times before, the Latter -day Saints wanted to engage with us.

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They loved to engage with us. They were ready to go to the text and to do battle, and they believed that they could actually prove their religion, their

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God, their faith through Scripture, at least some points of Scripture. Even though they believed Scripture was corrupted, they wanted to do battle there.

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They were trained. They were trained. You know, schools even today here in Arizona, you have the school, and right next to it is their seminary where the kids will go over and they will learn at those seminaries, and they were trained to talk to Christians, and so I have spent countless hours outside of that Mormon temple here in Mesa preaching the gospel to Latter -day

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Saints, sometimes on into 2, 3 in the morning. Jerry and I probably, we can't even remember how many times we were there until 1 or 2 a .m.

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talking to Latter -day Saints, conversations going late into the night. Latter -day Saints with tears in their eyes.

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Latter -day Saints acknowledging that what we were saying was true, and they knew it was true. You could see that conviction coming over them, and I remember that when

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I was doing this ministry, I was frustrated. I admit that. I was frustrated at times that here you have tens of thousands of Latter -day

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Saints showing up here at this event in Mesa. Mormon missionaries everywhere distributing a false gospel to visitors who were coming, and it used to be frustrating.

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Is it really only just us? It's me and Jerry and a handful of others, Pastor James, and where's the

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Christian church? Right? And people used to tell me many times, they told me, they'd say,

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Jeff, that's not the way to reach them. What you're doing is offensive. It's wrong. You're going to their place of religious worship, and you're coming to disprove them and show that they're wrong.

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And then I would look at the book of Acts and see in Acts chapter 9 when the Apostle Paul turns to Jesus, he takes a beeline to Damascus, and he goes right to the synagogue, their place of religious worship, and he proves that Jesus is the

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Messiah. And the result was, they wanted to kill him. You can see the early leaders of the church going into the public square, going to where they worship to preach the gospel and to give them the true

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Christ, and you saw people coming to Christ, the church increasing in its numbers, experiencing peace.

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That's all in Acts chapter 9. But what I had from personal experience, not just from Scripture, was

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I had from personal experience the Mormon people getting the truth, getting the gospel, and turning to Christ.

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I started to meet people who had turned to Christ as a result of our evangelism. I started to meet people who received a tract from us one year, and two or three years later they come back to meet us and say, hey,

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I read your tract. God used it to get me in the Scriptures, and now I'm in Christ. Now I'm a believer.

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We've been able to, actually at this point now, just simply do what we were doing before, go preach the gospel out there, but God's given to us cameras.

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We put cameras up so people can hear the conversation, learn from the conversation, and at this point in our ministry we have received so many emails and messages from people who saw that content.

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They heard those conversations on the other side of the world, and they turned to Christ as a result of it.

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And people told us, don't go there. It's not effective. You shouldn't do it. One rule I'd like to impart to you all that's very important is never listen to armchair theologians and armchair evangelists.

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Don't do it. Because oftentimes, the people who would say, don't go there.

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That's wrong. You shouldn't do that. I'll say, well, through the work of our church body going out there, we've seen thousands upon thousands of Mormons turn to Christ.

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How many have you seen turn to Christ as a result of your methodology? And the answer will be crickets.

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We need to go. If we truly love them, we won't just talk about them. Right? If we truly love them, we won't just talk about them.

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If we truly love them, we will go and talk to them and engage them with the truth of the gospel.

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Is it scary? Kind of. Is it difficult? Kind of. People often say, and then we'll get into this in a moment.

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I'm gonna come out and challenge you guys in a minute, so get ready for this. People will say, I don't know how you do it. I don't know how your church does that,

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Pastor Jeff. I don't know how you go out there and get on the street and talk to those Mormons. I would be so terrified and it just seems so difficult.

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I just don't know if I have that kind of courage. And my answer is, honestly, I feel sometimes bad because the

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Mormon people are some of my favorite people in the world. I love their community so much. I truly love the

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Mormons so much. And they are by and large the sweetest, most amazing, nicest, kindest people you'll ever meet.

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And so oftentimes I feel like I'm kind of a wimp. That's my favorite community.

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Because it's not like, it's a little different going to preach the gospel at like drag queen story hour. Right? Or it's different going to preach the gospel like downtown when they're having like a gay pride parade.

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Right? That's intense. That's difficult. It's difficult when you go to the abortion mill to preach the gospel.

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That's hard ministry. It's difficult for those of you guys that go out to Mill Avenue on Saturday nights or you go out to First Friday or you go out to the strip clubs.

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Those are hard ministries. But going to the Mormon temple is easy compared to that.

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Right? I mean, they're the sweetest, most amazing people. I love them. I mean, I'll just say this publicly. There are a lot of Mormons that I would rather have dinner with than some professing

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Christians. And that's just the truth. So I want to encourage you, if you love them, sacrifice for them.

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Go and meet them there. Go engage in a conversation to love them for Christ and with the biblical gospel.

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God has used our church body to save so many Mormons, and so I'm committed to them as a community for the rest of my life.

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I love them. I truly do. And the Mormon Easter pageant is one of my very favorite times of year.

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Now, Mormonism, you need to know this, is in flux. It is changing constantly.

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And wouldn't you know it because, of course, it's a man -made religion. It doesn't get its own theology right.

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In its first century of being alive, it has many false prophecies.

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It changes its doctrine of God a number of times. You can read in some of the teachings of the prophet

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Joseph Smith that early on, Joseph Smith taught that there were only two persons in the Godhead. Joseph Smith teaches a variety of different views from tritheism to polytheism to modalism, and there's some mixtures of Arianism at points, and so he doesn't get it right even in the first century.

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But even today, Mormonism is in flux. Back in the day when Pastor James and I were, well,

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I'm not that old, but back in the day, no, I'm just joking. When we were doing it in the 90s, early on,

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Mormons referred to us as Gentiles. Mormons referred to us as Gentiles, and they believed they were the one true church, and they were ready to go to battle.

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They would believe what their prophets said. They would say, hey, Joseph said it. I'll believe it.

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I may not know everything he said, but that's my prophet. If he said it, I'll believe it. Brigham Young said it.

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I'll believe it. I'm going to believe what my prophets taught. Today, today, within a few short decades, today, when you talk to the average

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Mormon on the street, it's in flux. You'll have Mormons that consider themselves faithful and devout

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Mormons who will deny explicit teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith or Brigham Young.

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They'll say they don't believe them. You'll have Mormons today, particularly Mormons that are coming out of BYU, that are firmly committed to the

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LGBT lifestyle and community. You'll have Mormons today that are promoting transgenderism as a good thing.

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Mormonism is in flux. They don't know, oftentimes, what they actually believe. You have sort of classic

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Mormons, still alive today, that believe in classic Mormons and Mormon theology. They're committed. They're devoted.

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You've got the modern Mormon who thinks basically everybody's okay. I mean, I used to have

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Mormons out there telling me, yeah, you definitely are going to outer darkness. Right?

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The only people that go to outer darkness are those who apostatize from Mormonism or people like you,

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Jeff, who kick against the goads and you fight against the truth of our church and you are definitely going to outer darkness.

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I am so disappointed that I rarely have a Mormon tell me that I'm going to outer darkness today.

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I'd like them to say it because it would show that they actually believe what their prophets have taught and what their apostles have taught.

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Mormonism is in flux today, which means it's an amazing, precious opportunity for us as a church to come to them with the gospel and with the true

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Christ because even they can see the contradictions within their current leadership, not standing on what

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Mormonism actually teaches, believing what the culture believes about gender, about sexuality, and all the rest.

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Many today don't even know or believe classic Mormon doctrine and it is frustrating.

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I have Mormon friends and it's frustrating even for them. They've told me it is frustrating today with the modern

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Mormon, even for them, not knowing what they are supposed to believe or just denying what they know they're supposed to believe.

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Mormonism is in flux. Mormonism today is trying to attempt a massive facelift.

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Like for example, there are people who are watching this right now or who will watch it later and they're going to be highly offended that I, as a

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Christian minister, am still using the terminology Mormon. Why?

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Because of the facelift. Because the Mormon leadership recently tried to give

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Mormonism a facelift. So today, it's not mormon .org you go to.

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If you type that in, what's it going to go to? It's going to go to the Church of Christ. Now they call themselves, they want to be called, not

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Mormons, but the Church of Christ. So we're losing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the title

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Mormon and we're going with we're just the Church of Christ. We're Christians too.

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That's the key. That's the facelift. We just want to look just like another denomination. Just like other

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Christian denominations. We're just one of them. One of the many denominations of Christianity. And it's interesting because if you actually know the history of Mormonism and the teachings of the prophets and the apostles, that's not what they wanted.

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They did not want to be called Christian and one of us. They called the Christians Gentiles. One of the first vision accounts.

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Joseph Smith actually had a number of first vision accounts. It wasn't part of the earliest story of Mormonism.

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But we have different first vision accounts. But the one that's given to you today, when they first come to your door or they meet you at a park, is the first vision account that says

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Joseph Smith went into the woods because he was very confused. He didn't know which church to join. And so he asked the question of Elohim, a resurrected man who evolved into becoming a god or moved his way, advanced into becoming a god, and Jesus Christ who appeared to him, which church to join.

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And he's told in that vision, he says, he claims, he's to join none of the churches for they are all wrong.

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All their creeds are an abomination. All their professors, that's you and me, are all corrupt.

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They draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. That's what you'll hear in the story of Mormonism.

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And yet now, they're attempting a facelift. They just want to look like a Christian denomination. Whereas you have early

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Mormon prophets and apostles saying things like, all of Christianity is a perfect pact of nonsense.

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It's all from the devil. And if you look in the Book of Mormon, it'll say that there are two churches. There's the church of God and there's the church of the devil.

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But now, Mormonism is trying to get a facelift. They don't even want us using that terminology anymore.

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And I love the Mormon enough not to go along with the facelift. So people often say,

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Pastor Jeff, why don't you just go with what they want to be called now? My answer is, is because I'm not going along with the facelift.

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You guys are the Mormons. Historically, you're a Mormon. Your church had no problem with that title until very recently where now it's a marketing ploy to change the face of Mormonism and I'm not going along with it.

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I won't go along with you forcing me to say what pronouns you want to be called. I won't go along with you forcing me to say what gender you want to be called.

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I'm going to speak the truth. And so, maybe I'm wrong for that. The Lord knows. He'll answer me one day.

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But I'm not going along with the facelift. They're the Mormons. And we need to reach them with the biblical

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Christ and the biblical gospel. So, when we enter this discussion, here's what's really important for all of us.

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You've heard us say this many times before. It's important when we talk about Roman Catholicism.

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It's important when we talk about Mormonism. It's important when we talk about the Church of Christ, Iglesia Ni Cristo.

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It's important in any religious movement that you speak to when they are using Christian terminology that you scale the language barrier.

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That's from Dr. Walter Martin's book The Kingdom of the Cults. It was a very important work early on in the last generation.

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Dr. Walter Martin gave a really tremendous gift to the Christian church where he analyzed all of the cults.

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And he basically analyzed them from a Christian perspective with historic Christian orthodoxy. Very important work.

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And in that work he starts with you need to learn as a Christian to scale the language barrier.

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Right? Like it's in your bulletin today. What's the quote from Dr. Martin? He said...

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Make sure I get it right here. He said, when people say I believe in Jesus look them straight in the eye and ask which one?

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Which one? Because if you stood out there on that sidewalk in Mesa and you have a

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Latter Day Saint, a Christian, you have a Jehovah's Witness and a

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Muslim all standing side by side and you all just start saying hey, isn't Jesus great?

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Every single one of those people standing there will say he is, he's amazing.

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Starts to get confusing for a minute. Wait a second, we got a Muslim, we got a Jehovah's Witness, we got a Mormon, we got a Christian. What's going on?

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I think I think Jesus is holy and he's perfect. Right?

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You start to get common agreement amongst them. So you have to ask more challenging questions. Who is Jesus? Is he as the scriptures say and teach over and over again?

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Is he our great God and Savior? Is he the one who's existed from all eternity in relationship with the

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Father, John chapter 1? Is Jesus Christ the God man? Did Jesus die for the sins of his people?

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Did he actually die for the sins of his people? Did he actually rise again from the dead? Where the Muslim you'll talk to will say they believe in Jesus and they'll say peace be upon him.

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They try to show reverence toward his name. Peace be upon him. Jesus, peace be upon him. But they don't believe that Jesus Christ was crucified for the sins of God's people or that he rose again from the dead.

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And yet they use the name Jesus Christ. What would Paul call that? Another Christ. That's another

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Jesus. A Jesus that can't save you. And yet they're using our terminology. So it's very important to dig in.

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It's very important to dig in and scale the language barrier even when you're talking to apostates and deceivers like Brandon Robertson.

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Like we recently did on Apologia Radio. The progressive Christianity that constantly wants to distort the

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Bible, distort biblical revelation, and throw the word of God out and yet still use the title

29:43

Christian. Still confess Jesus as Lord. Wasn't that jarring?

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Wasn't it jarring in that conversation to see somebody that actually denies the authority of Scripture, says that the

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Scripture is filled with immorality actually given to us by the prophets and apostles, saying that it's filled with fiction and mythology and yet say

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I confess Jesus as Lord. Who is your Jesus? Who is he?

30:11

So we have to learn to scale the language barrier and here's the point. Are you ready? This is it. Where will you land?

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When you scale the language barrier, are we going to talk about Christ from our own experience?

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Right? The Mormons do that. Right? How do you know that Joseph Smith's the prophet or your Jesus is the truth?

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What will they say? I prayed about it and I got a burning in my bosom. It's this private experience that I have that that's how

30:37

I know my Jesus is true. So for the Christian though, when we say scale the language barrier and define your terms, what we're saying is those definitions need to come from the authoritative, self -attesting revelation of God.

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Scripture. This is the very voice of God. All Scripture is theanoustos.

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It is breathed out by God. These are the words of God. These are not the words of mere men.

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These are the words of God. The kind of words where Jesus could say in his generation, have you not read what was spoken to you by God?

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This is God's speech. So when we define our terms, how will we define it? By Scripture.

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By God's word. That's how we know what's actually true. This is the foundation of our faith.

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And let me just say this at the very beginning, very important. This goes well beyond, well beyond the discussion of our conflict with the false gospel and false

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Christ of Mormonism. This goes to the essence of the entire Christian life. How do you know?

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Where is your hope? Where are you grounded? Because let's be honest, we have a day in our lives where it just feels like, praise

31:53

God, this life is a blessing, you're so good God, and then Tuesday, everything comes crashing down.

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Everything feels horrible. There's betrayal, there's sin, there's conflict, there's evil in the world, there's lies, there's suffering, there's disease, sickness, and death.

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And the question is, is where's your hope found? Where's the guarantee? Where's the assurance?

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Where's the certainty? In those days where everything falls apart, where life feels like an absolute mess and like God is literally out of control.

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He is far off. He is absentee. He doesn't care. You might go through those feelings, entertain those feelings as a child of God.

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Where's your hope? Where's your certainty? Where's the grounding? Where's it going to come from?

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Is it going to come from your feelings? Your experiences? All of that? Or is it going to come from the revelation of God?

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That's where your hope comes from. So you see, this conflict really comes down to the essence of who has authority here?

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What is the truth? And scripture teaches over and over again that it's from the word of God.

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So quickly, it's a stand -alone message. This is to encourage you. This is to challenge you to get out there and be a missionary to the

33:08

Mormon people in our community. But it's a stand -alone message, quick version of the Mormon story.

33:16

Joseph Smith Jr. was known historically, there's plenty of fantastic books in the history of Mormonism and Joseph Smith, you can read this with eyewitness evidence and testimony and all the rest.

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Joseph Smith was known in his family as an amazing storyteller. There were no, there wasn't

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Netflix, right? No Netflix, no Apple TV, no

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YouTube, none of that stuff. No ping -pong to put your kids in front of for hours.

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There's like two people that laughed at that. In those days, you didn't have the kind of entertainment that we have today, access to entertainment.

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And so people read books. They actually talked to each other, right? People had supper together.

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They sat together in the living room and they told stories and Joseph Smith was well -known in his family for being an amazing storyteller.

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And the story of Mormonism begins, there's different versions at different points, but that Joseph Smith was told about the location of some golden plates that were written in reformed

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Egyptian hieroglyphics. And those golden plates told the story of an ancient people and these golden plates were another testament of Jesus Christ.

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That's where they got the Book of Mormon from. Joseph Smith claimed to translate this dead language from a reformed

34:39

Egyptian hieroglyphics into English, into what we have now today, the Book of Mormon. When that book was published in 1830, it was called, according to them, the most correct book of any book on earth and a man could get to God, get nearer to God by obeying its precepts.

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Other than any other book, that was the claim about the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon has changed nearly 4 ,000 times since its publication in 1830.

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How's that for the most perfect book? Joseph Smith claimed, as the religion evolved, to have a first vision where God visited him and Jesus Christ, two separate beings, two separate gods, where he was told to join none of the churches.

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Joseph Smith was a well -known con artist.

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Joseph Smith, we have a number of records from his neighbors, those who knew him. His family was seen as very untrustworthy people, as con artists.

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He was known as a treasure digger, money digger. He practiced the occult.

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Joseph Smith was arrested in Bainbridge, New York, in 1826 for crystal ball gazing.

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It's amazing that Christian laws were still on the books then in New England, in that area where you could not practice divination, spiritism, or occultism.

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And Joseph Smith was actually arrested for an occult practice of divination.

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And so that's a public record. You guys can check that out. But Joseph Smith begins this movement, 1830, the publication of the

36:15

Book of Mormon. And Joseph Smith's view of God actually began to change.

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So as you read the Book of Mormon, the Book of Mormon is given to us in the context of a

36:27

Christian culture. You've got Presbyterians. You've got Reformed Baptists. You've got

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Anglicans. You've got a number of historic Orthodox Christian communions around Joseph Smith at that day.

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And so early on in the Book of Mormon, you'll see even testimony to the Christianity that was in the atmosphere in Joseph's day.

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You'll see testimony to monotheism, that there is only one true and living

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God. And then you'll see ancient Christian heresies creeping into the

37:00

Book of Mormon because Joseph Smith, let's be honest, was ignorant. He was ignorant about history.

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He was ignorant about Orthodoxy. And so he moves in and out of monotheism and other perspectives even in the

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Book of Mormon. He gets the names of places wrong in the Book of Mormon. He continuously repeats, and it is highly, it is very difficult to read the

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Book of Mormon because it is the bane of and it came to pass, and it came to pass, and it came to pass, and it came to pass, and it came to pass, and it came to pass, and it came to pass.

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Are you annoyed yet? And it came to pass. Are you annoyed? And it came to pass. Open the Book of Mormon and you'll see.

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It is over and over and over. He wasn't even a very good storyteller in my mind, and yet he gave us that.

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And his view of God began to change through the 1830s until he was murdered.

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Is that fireworks? His view of God began to actually transform.

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Again, you could see monotheism. You could see modalism. You could see tritheism. Moving into polytheism.

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Joseph Smith taught that ultimately you could become a god and goddess of your own planet one day.

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Let me give you some examples here. Who has a copy of this? Anyone got this? Raise your hand if you have this. Good.

38:20

Where does it say that? Get where does it say that? I'm worried about when they stop publishing this book because it has been one of the most important tools that I've had in my evangelism with Latter -day

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Saints over decades. Joseph Smith taught in his most famous sermon.

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Journal of Discourses, Volume 6, page 3, 1844. Here's what he says. He says,

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I will prove that the world is wrong by showing what God is. I'm going to inquire after God for I want you all to know

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Him and to be familiar with Him. You will then know that I am His servant for I speak as one having authority.

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These aren't his own words. He's not claiming that. This is not his opinion. He's speaking from God with authority as a prophet.

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He says this, I will go back to the beginning. Before the world was to show what kind of being

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God is, God himself was once as we are now and is an exalted man and sits enthroned in yonder heavens.

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That is the great secret. I say, if you were to see Him today, you would see

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Him like a man in form, like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man.

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It is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so.

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For I'm going to tell you how God came to be God. I'm going to tell you how God came to be

39:58

God. We've imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and I will take away and do away the veil so that you may see.

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It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another and that He was once a man like us, yea, that God Himself, the

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Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did. And He goes on to say this.

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Are you ready? Let's just try this real fast. I'm going to give you the verse and you finish it.

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Okay, are you ready? This is where we'll test you guys in apologia. Here we go. I'll give you the verse. Here then is eternal life.

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Here then is eternal life to know the only wise and true God and anyone know?

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Oh, we're failing. Okay. And Jesus Christ whom you have sent. Here's Joseph Smith.

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Ready? See the distorting of truth? Here's what he says. Here then is eternal life to know the only wise and true

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God and you've got to learn to become gods yourselves and to be kings and priests to God the same as all gods have done before you, namely by going from one small degree to another and from a small capacity to a great one.

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In the Journal of Discourses, Volume 6, page 5, 1844, he says, Thus the head god brought forth the gods in the grand council.

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In the beginning the head of the gods called a council of the gods and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and to people it.

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Joseph Smith taught that there were many gods, that you could become one one day. That's where his view began to evolve and so you'll hear today

41:56

Mormons believe, they're taught, they pass this along, As man is, God once was.

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As God is, man may become. That's what

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Mormons believe. Latter -day Saints believe that the ultimate goal is exaltation. There's three levels of heaven.

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There's three levels of heaven and that ultimate level is the celestial kingdom and the way there is through obedience to laws and ordinances, the principles of the

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Mormon gospel, through temple ceremonies and priesthood and early on, polygamy.

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Brigham Young taught this. Ready? The only men who become gods or even the sons of God are those who enter into polygamy.

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So you wonder today, why are there so many hundreds of offshoots and sects of the

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Mormon community? Why do we have all these polygamist sects all over Utah and northern

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Arizona and in Colorado? Why do we have all these sects? Here's the reason. Because Joseph Smith and Brigham Young taught that you must be a polygamist to become a god or goddess of your own planet one day.

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And Brigham Young taught that if you continue to deny the practice of polygamy, you will be damned.

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So a Mormon today reads their prophet, Brigham Young, saying, if you're not a polygamist, you will be damned to hell.

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They taught to become a god or goddess, you needed to be a polygamist in this life. And that's why many

43:38

Mormons today continue to engage in polygamy. It's interesting. We do a ministry in Utah.

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We have a church plant in Utah. It's difficult. What do you do with polygamists that turn to Christ?

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Try that one on for size. We're dealing with that right now as pastors. That's our mission field.

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We're preaching the gospel. We've got polygamist families coming to Jesus. What do you do with them? Tough, right?

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A lot of people don't want to answer. I don't know, thanks. I'll do ministry in Southern California, I guess. It's got its own problems, trust me.

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But what do you do? But when you're in Utah, today even, you can rent an

44:17

Airbnb. You'll go like, hey, I need a bigger Airbnb. Let's get one that can fit nine family members.

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You get there and you're like, why are there 35 beds in this house? And why does it have two or three kitchens?

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Right? So you've heard us mention one of the places we generally stay when we do missions is Polygamy Palace. We call it that because it's obviously a house built for a polygamist family.

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Or there's times where we might go out to eat. After doing something, we'll go out to eat. And then you're out eating and you'll see one man come in with five or six women with dresses from neck to ankle, all following in tow, standing behind, totally silent, trying to make sure no one looks at them.

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And you're like, I think I know what's happening here. Right? It's kind of obvious. It's still happening to this day because they were taught that you needed to be a polygamist to become a god or goddess of your own planet one day.

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You had to go through Mormon temple ceremonies, you had to go through endowments, you had to go through all of those things.

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Mormons are told, Mormon women are told that if your husband doesn't call you up from the dead, you will not be called up.

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How's that for power in a marital spat, right? Right? Oh yeah?

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Maybe I'll forget to call your name, right? Sorry, it is kind of amusing, right?

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That's a lot of power. But no, they're told that. So they believe that Jesus Christ is our brother.

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That Jesus Christ and us were created in the preexistence by Elohim, that's what they call

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God the Father, a man who went through exaltation, who had a god before him, who had a god before him, who had a god before him, who had a god before him.

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Same experience you have today, Elohim went through. And through progression and obedience to his god, he became a god one day.

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We have heavenly mothers over planet earth. Elohim is a polygamist.

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And through celestial sex, created his spirit offspring of this planet.

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Jesus, our elder brother, Lucifer is Jesus' brother,

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Satan is the brother of Jesus, and so are we all. We were created in the preexistence, we fill these bodies here on earth, and our goal is progression and exaltation to become gods and goddesses, just like the gods have done before us.

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That is the true Mormon story. They believe that in the gospel,

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Jesus Christ began his atonement in the garden of Gethsemane, where he sweat great drops of blood.

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It was finished on the cross, and ultimately, the way to peace with God is through your obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.

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Ready? Let's do it again. Are you ready? Here we go. By grace you're saved. There you go.

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Christian communion now. You all knew where that was going, right? Here we go. Let's try it again. By grace you are saved, and that not of yourselves, it is the...

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not according to works, lest any man should boast. Here, 2

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Nephi 25 -23, Book of Mormon. By grace you are saved, after all you can do.

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After all you can do. Mormonism teaches that if you are perfect and obedient, then, then, then, shall the grace of God be sufficient for you.

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So in Mormonism, grace comes after your work. Work.

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Obey. Be obedient. Be perfect. Be righteous. Then His grace will be sufficient for you.

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After all of your efforts. That's a false gospel. It won't save anybody.

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And it does mean this, that our Mormon friends and neighbors don't know the gospel. They don't know the grace of God.

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They don't know how truly merciful, and good, and gracious God actually is. They are burdened under a false gospel carrying the weight of their own sin, and their own shame, and their own guilt.

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They don't have a righteousness that is perfect before the Father so that they can know God. They don't know Him, and they need to know

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Him. And there's thousands upon thousands showing up in a couple of weeks right down the street from here.

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Will you go and meet them? Will you go and meet them? It's worth it. I will always believe this.

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I will never be convinced otherwise. I think your whole life, all the trials, all the difficulties, all the pain, all the pain, all the trauma of this life is worth it if you live your life to lead one person to Jesus.

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I think each person is that valuable. If your whole life, all of the trials and difficulties, was so that you could be used of God to lead one person to Christ, I think that's a life well lived.

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I'll always believe that. And I think you'll believe it in eternity along with me. I do believe that. But here is where we need to focus.

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And I want to encourage you to study these as you prepare to go to do mission to the

49:36

Mormon community locally as a church body. Three things you need to be prepared for as a believer.

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And this goes far beyond Mormonism. It goes into all other areas of life, whether you're talking political, with government, gender,

49:52

Roman Catholicism, any other perversion of the gospel. You need to know, as a believer, the authority of Scripture.

50:00

Why do you believe the Word of God is the final authority? Do you know?

50:06

Can you articulate that using Scripture, using the Word of God? Can you defend the

50:12

Christian faith and the authority of God's revelation as supreme from the Bible? Can you engage in that?

50:18

The authority of Scripture. The second thing you need to be prepped for, and we have tons of stuff online for this, is the

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Trinity. Can you explain the Trinity from Scripture?

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It's a biblical doctrine. I don't mean, can you explain the Trinity using the creeds?

50:36

The creeds are helpful. Thank God for the work of His church throughout history and the sanctifying work of God's spirit in His church and history.

50:43

We love the creeds. Praise God for the creeds. However, the creeds are what they are, and they're right only if they're consistent with the

50:50

Word of God. It's the Word of God that comes first. The creeds come later. Can you defend the

50:56

Trinity, what the Bible says about God in three persons for all eternity from the

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Bible itself? And the last thing is, can you defend the doctrine of justification by faith in Christ alone?

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Can you do that? All of these things, by the way, these three things are the very things that are going to meet you every day of your life personally as a believer.

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It's not just for them. It's for you. So studying these three important essential doctrines are for you as a believer.

51:30

Okay. Let's try this. I'm probably going to get out of the camera's view now, so let's do this. All right. I'm going to challenge you guys now.

51:37

Are you ready? Yeah. Look at you guys. Now you're awake. Some of you guys, I saw your faces.

51:42

Okay. Let's try it. I'm going to challenge you. The Bible says there's many gods and many lords. You Christians, you say there's only one

51:49

God and your Bible that you're bringing here on the sidewalk says, literally says there's many gods and many lords.

51:56

So what's your answer to that? What's that? You guys speak up a little louder, will you?

52:03

Isaiah 46 .10? Okay. What's it say? Okay.

52:12

All right. But I just told you the Bible says there's many gods and many lords.

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That's in 1 Corinthians 8. Many gods, many lords. You Christians are out of your minds.

52:25

Your Bible teaches, yes, there's one God for us, but there are many gods and many lords. Oh, boy, we got work to do.

52:33

Some of you guys. Okay. 1 Corinthians 8. Many gods, many lords. You got to yell it out so everyone can hear you.

52:42

No, I'm sorry. That's a fantastic verse. We need to use that one. But I just challenged you on 1

52:48

Corinthians 8. 1 Corinthians 8 says there's many gods and many lords. No, I want you to read where it says it.

52:54

Read it. Look, Beanie. Read the verse.

53:00

Read the verse. Hold on. Wait a second.

53:06

Wait a second. I didn't even think ahead. Do we have, like, a portable microphone? That would work.

53:11

Is there a portable mic up here? No, okay. Yeah, go ahead and bring one.

53:17

Okay, so let's... 1 Corinthians 8. For although... Oh, wait. Yeah, for although there are many so -called gods in heaven or on earth, as indeed, there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is one

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God the Father from whom all things and from who we exist and one Lord Jesus Christ to whom we all are things and through whom we exist.

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So there you go. Good example. Mormons will prove text. They'll take a section like that where it says there's many gods and many lords and modern

53:48

English translations will amplify what the text is saying. But if you look at the

53:53

King James Version, it'll say there's many gods and many lords. And they'll say, see, it says it right there.

53:58

In that book, it says there's many gods and there are many lords. But if you read 1 Corinthians 8, literally before he says it and after he says it, he says there is only one

54:09

God. What's he referring to? He's referring to false gods. He's referring to idols. Yeah, there's many gods and many lords.

54:17

We have them in America right now. Many gods, many lords. But there is only one true and living

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God. Literally the verse is sandwiched between two verses that say there's only one

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God. But the Mormons aren't taught to go to the text. They're not taught to unpack the text.

54:35

What does it actually say? Go to the text. In context, what's it say? What they're given in their seminaries and in their classes is they're given little verses, proof texts out of context to say when the

54:47

Christian says there's only one God, you give them this verse that says there's many gods and many lords. Are you ready to deal with that?

54:54

Are you ready to go to the text? All right, ready? The Bible does not say there is only one true and living

54:59

God. It doesn't say it. All right, so let's see. Okay, raise your hands because this is a big room tonight. It does not say there's only one

55:06

God. I can quote Genesis 16 .5.

55:12

It doesn't help me. Where's the verse? Say it to me, guys. Okay, that says there's no salvation in any of that.

55:21

I'm playing the Mormon guys. I'm going to be real mean here for a minute, okay? This is not the real Pastor Jeff here, okay? So it says there's only one way.

55:28

I believe that. I'm Latter -day Saint. I believe there's only a way to salvation. It's only through Jesus. I told you the

55:33

Bible does not say there is only one God. First Timothy 2 .5, what's it say?

55:38

There is one God. One God, one mediator between man, the man

55:45

Christ Jesus. Touché. Okay. Deuteronomy 6, what's it say?

56:05

Well, that's good. You got it. There's only one God. Okay. The Shema is part of the morning and evening prayers for the

56:10

Jews historically and even today. Let's do it together. Ready? Shema. Oh, let's try it again.

56:16

Ready? Shema. Yisrael. Yahweh. Eloheinu.

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Yahweh. Echad. There you go. Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. But there's more.

56:28

Come on, guys. What's that? Daniel, you're not allowed to talk anymore. You already did one. Okay. Okay. Let's try it again.

56:35

All right. In the very back, nice and loud so everyone can hear you. The Bible does not teach there is only one God. There you go.

56:50

Deuteronomy chapter 4, 35 and 39, it says that Yahweh is God in heaven above and on the earth below.

56:58

There is no other. What did Joseph say in the King Follett discourse? What did he say? He said, you've got to...

57:12

We think he thought he was God from all eternity. I'm going to take away that veil so that you can see you've got to learn to become gods yourselves the same way all gods have done before you.

57:19

And what's interesting is that Mormons will tell you on the street, they'll say, no, no, we believe in only one God. We believe in only one

57:26

God of this earth. What did that text our brother said from Deuteronomy 4 say?

57:32

He is God alone in the heavens above and on the earth below. There is no other.

57:38

All right. Let's go. Let's try some more because there are many. The Bible does not teach that there's only one

57:44

God. Yes. Okay.

58:12

Any others? Yes. Okay. Jerry.

58:25

So the God of the Bible says about 700 years before Jesus that he doesn't even know of any other gods.

58:34

Joseph's God says that there's a council of gods and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and to people it.

58:42

God says he doesn't even know of another God. Any other ones? Let's go.

58:48

Okay. Nice and loud. The only

58:58

God. Yes, sir. Nice and loud. Amen.

59:10

We could do this for days, right? Now they're going to challenge you on this too. Here's the problem. This is the problem.

59:16

You got all these verses that I will grant say that there's only one God. Okay. I say it. I have disagreements about your interpretations of those texts but here's the problem is that there is in the

59:26

Bible a promise of apostasy. There's going to be a falling away. That falling away happened and Joseph Smith restored the church of Jesus Christ.

59:36

You need to come home because there was a falling away and there was an apostasy.

59:41

The church fell away from the earth and needed to be restored not reformed, restored.

59:47

You got to do it nice and loud. Yes. Very good.

59:58

Pastor James, how would you answer that question of apostasy because that's an important one. Out. We also need to amplify one aspect of that because it's very important because there it says it was shown that you might know that Jehovah it says

01:01:06

He is God but what is the Hebrew word that is used there? Elohim. Jehovah He is

01:01:11

Elohim. In the Mormon mind Elohim is God the Father. Jehovah is Jesus the

01:01:16

Son. There are 535 times in the Old Testament where Jehovah Elohim is used as a single compound.

01:01:22

In Mormon theology that doesn't work but they don't see it because they're just using an English translation.

01:01:28

I was ushered out of the visitor's center in Mesa. Many, many, many, many years ago for quoting

01:01:35

Deuteronomy 435. We need to recognize that that is a fundamental direct contradiction to LDS teaching.

01:01:42

Keep holding on to that. Alright, so let's try this. What's up? You want to say something?

01:01:48

What's the verse? Very good.

01:02:16

Ten Commandments. You should have another God before me. Good job. Good eye. Okay. So, they will claim there was an apostasy of falling away that the church basically was gone from the earth and needed to be restored.

01:02:29

So, it's been perverse, indoctrined, corrupted, fell away from the earth and needed restoration.

01:02:35

But what does the Bible actually teach about the kingdom of Christ? Can it pass away?

01:02:43

So, prove it. I'm telling you the church fell away and it needed to be restored.

01:02:50

That's a pretty bold claim. Now, the church fell away, needed to be restored but does the

01:02:55

Bible talk about the kingdom of the Messiah in that way? Yes. Nice and loud. Okay.

01:03:04

That's good. I would use that in terms of revelation and scripture and the words of God not passing away.

01:03:10

But they're going to make the claim to you and other apocalyptic, cultic movements will do the same thing that the church fell away and needed to be restored.

01:03:19

Not reformed. Restored. It was gone. So, what does the Bible teach about the kingdom of the

01:03:24

Messiah? Can it ever fall away? Let me give you something to work with.

01:03:29

Deuteronomy chapter... Sorry. Daniel chapter 7 verses 13 through 14. Daniel 7, 13 through 14.

01:03:37

Did you have it ready? Yeah. Daniel 7, 13 through 14. He's looking in the night visions.

01:03:42

He sees one like the son of man and he comes up to the Ancient of Days after being on the clouds of heaven and he says, and to him is given dominion, authority and a kingdom that will never pass away.

01:03:55

Jesus taught that he brought that kingdom. The apostles taught that Jesus brought that kingdom. Scripture says that that kingdom will be everlasting.

01:04:03

Isaiah 9, 6 through 7. Daniel 7, 13 through 14. It will never pass away.

01:04:09

What does Joseph Smith start in the story of Mormonism in his first vision? That it passes away and needed restoration.

01:04:17

Christians do not believe that the church ever falls away to the point it needs restored.

01:04:24

The church can have error in history and has had error in history but we don't believe even as reformers that the gospel fell away or the church fell away.

01:04:33

We believe in reformation, getting back to scripture, always the purity of scripture but the gospel can never pass away.

01:04:41

Christ builds his church and the gates of hell will never prevail against it. Now they're going to say to you, okay, forget the apostasy question.

01:04:50

The next thing is, I don't trust that Bible. It's missing many plain and precious parts.

01:04:56

You can't trust your Bibles. Your Bibles have been corrupted. How many different translations of the

01:05:02

Bible you got? How many? You got the NIV, you got the LSB, you got the

01:05:07

ESV, the NASB, the ASV, the KJV, the NKJV.

01:05:13

You've got all these different versions. You guys can't even get it straight. Translation of translation of translation of translation.

01:05:19

Your Bible is missing many plain and precious parts. You're going to hear it.

01:05:25

So what will you say? What will you say? How would you defend yourself when someone tells you that your

01:05:32

Bible's been corrupted? You don't know what God's word is because you don't even know if you have what they wrote down. We happen to have the leading scholar in the world here on this subject.

01:05:43

Come on now, people. Let's go. Someone fire back at that. Your Bible has been corrupted.

01:05:49

It's missing many plain and precious parts. Nice and loud. Okay, that's very good.

01:05:56

You're in the right spot. That's the right area. Matthew, you had your hand up?

01:06:09

Yeah, Jesus is talking about the law of God there. I agree with that. Welcome to theonomy. What's that?

01:06:18

Jesus quoted from the Septuagint. Yeah, the apostles clearly are using the Septuagint the most. But I'm telling you that you can't trust your

01:06:25

Bibles. Your Bibles have been corrupted. You don't even know that you have what the apostles wrote down. So let's try to get a response to that.

01:06:34

Yes. Okay. Okay.

01:06:45

Greg, nice and loud. So start this discussion.

01:07:07

Someone tells you the Bible has been corrupted. When they say the Bible has been corrupted and you can't trust that God has given his revelation in history, question, does

01:07:14

Scripture say anything anywhere about God's word not passing away? Yeah, in a number of places.

01:07:21

So let's do Elliot. Give me something. Heaven and earth pass away.

01:07:28

My words by no means pass away. How about the grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our

01:07:33

God stands forever, right? Forever, oh Lord, your word is firmly fixed in the heavens.

01:07:40

So when someone says to us your Bible has been corrupted, you cannot trust it, the very first thing they're coming against is the authority of God's word itself which says that his word will endure forever and will never pass away.

01:07:53

However, let's get into it. Can we trust that we actually have accurately transmitted to us in history the words of God?

01:08:03

And to that, we'll go to Pastor James. Well, I was just gonna say, if you're talking with Mormons who claim to be members of the

01:08:11

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints, then what's the best place for you to go immediately at that point?

01:08:17

Go to Jesus's view of Scripture. And how do you do that? Well, I think one of the best places to do that, familiarize yourself,

01:08:27

Gospel of Matthew, chapter 22. Remember the going back and forth of Pharisees and the

01:08:33

Sadducees come along and the Sadducees see that Jesus is taking care of the

01:08:38

Pharisees. So, okay, let's try our best argument. Remember what their argument was? The woman who had the seven brothers, right?

01:08:45

And when Jesus refuted that argument, how did he do it? First of all, he wasn't politically correct.

01:08:51

He said, you're wrong, not knowing the Scriptures or the power of God. I love how he started off with that. There was no soft peddling, there was no safe spaces or anything there.

01:08:59

But then what did he do? He quotes from the Old Testament text.

01:09:05

And what did he quote? I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the

01:09:11

God of Jacob. Now what was his whole argument? He didn't say I was the God. I am the

01:09:17

God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He bases it totally upon the tense of a verb that had been written 1400 years earlier.

01:09:28

So did Jesus believe the Scriptures could be transmitted over time faithfully and carefully?

01:09:35

He most certainly did. And he not only said that, but what else did he say? This is an important text.

01:09:41

He said, have you not read what God spoke to you saying?

01:09:49

Now think about that. When I normally say, if I say to Beanie Man here, if I say, have you not read, what do you expect me to say after that?

01:10:01

What I wrote, right? Or I might say, have you not heard what

01:10:07

I spoke, what I said? That's not what Jesus says. He says, have you not read what

01:10:14

God spoke to whom? To you saying.

01:10:19

And then he quotes from writings 1400 years old. Jesus held men accountable to the written

01:10:28

Scriptures as if God had spoken the word directly to them.

01:10:35

They have to have been transmitted supernaturally, carefully, and providentially for Jesus to say those words.

01:10:43

So why should we believe what Joseph Smith told you rather than what

01:10:48

Jesus told you? And since they claim to be followers of Jesus, go to what,

01:10:53

Jesus' view of Scripture, what does he say in John chapter 10? The Scriptures cannot be broken.

01:10:59

Go to Jesus. Lead with that, because I've got to admit, a lot of Mormons have a implicit distrust of Paul.

01:11:10

They find him confusing, they find him difficult, but if it's right there in the words of Jesus, that's the best place to go.

01:11:16

Okay. Learn as a Christian not just to defend your position on the authority of Scripture from the words of God, but also learn about the history of the transmission of the text of the

01:11:29

Bible. It's incredible. What we have is attestation and history of the words of God being transmitted to us.

01:11:37

God has given to us a massive treasure of manuscripts, the ancient text going all the way back closer to the time of the apostles.

01:11:47

It's absolutely incredible what we have for the new, just the attestation for the New Testament documents themselves coming up to us in history.

01:11:55

God has preserved His Word in the manuscript tradition. It is incredible what we have.

01:12:01

It's a mountain of evidence. If you took, as Dan Wallace says, if you took all of our manuscripts in the New Testament alone and you stacked them on top of each other, they'd be over a mile, over a mile deep.

01:12:12

And what we have, attestation for the text of God's Word just from the New Testament. You should know about Qumran.

01:12:20

You should know about the Dead Sea Scrolls as a Christian. You should know about the scroll of Isaiah buried about 200 years before the time of Christ that matches the scroll that we have to this very day.

01:12:31

You should know about that. You should know how to defend that. Not only does God's Word say He would preserve

01:12:36

His Word, but you can demonstrate that He has transmitted the text to us faithfully throughout all ages.

01:12:42

Now, one more. Let's just end with this. I'm standing here in the middle of this aisle purposely to try to intimidate you.

01:12:53

Because when I'm up there just talking and preaching, right? It's one thing for you just to hear, oh, this is how it works, theology, and these are the scriptures.

01:13:02

But if I'm now down here in your face, now you're feeling it, right? Some of you guys are doing your best to ignore me, not look me in the eyes.

01:13:08

You think I'm going to call on you right now, right? Right? Okay, let's try this. No, I'm just joking. Okay. Here's the point.

01:13:15

I'm trying to apply pressure. You cannot just sit as a Christian in this culture and just get fed from a talking head.

01:13:22

You can't. You need to know what you believe. You need to know why you believe it. If I challenge you on the

01:13:28

Bible and I say the Bible's been corrupted, if you don't know how to answer that question, you need to work. You need to work.

01:13:34

Because this is what you say you base your entire life on, the revelation of God. Do you know how it was transmitted to us?

01:13:40

Do you know how faithfully it's been transmitted to us? Do you know the glory of God and that faithful transmission and preservation of the text?

01:13:48

It's incredible. So that's why when someone says to you the Bible's been corrupted, it's laughable because it's an incredible thing

01:13:54

God has done to preserve his word as he promised. But can you defend it? Can you defend it?

01:14:00

Do you know what you believe and why you believe it? I'll give you one more. I'll give you one more. Let's try it together. The Bible does not say that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ alone.

01:14:12

It is, of course, grace. I'll acknowledge we need the grace of God. And we've got to have faith in Jesus. I agree with that.

01:14:18

But the Bible, you know, you guys need to read your Bibles. It says we are not justified by faith alone.

01:14:25

That's James 2. It says faith without works is dead. So you

01:14:31

Christians, with all your evangelizing and all that stuff coming out here, your own Bible says faith without works is dead.

01:14:42

Jerry? We're just like we're interviewing the members of Apology Studios now.

01:14:48

Okay, Jerry? Louder, Jerry.

01:14:54

Why don't you stand up, Jerry? Nice and loud. Right. Well, they're trained in seminary to say it's

01:15:09

Scripture Master Cards where you're taught, they're taught, hey, you give the Christian this verse that says faith without works is dead.

01:15:16

Right? Yes. And up here, it's even undertaken being saved by works after it stands

01:16:03

Exactly. That's perfect. Let's remember something. That very text in Romans 4 has been altered by Joseph Smith in his inspired translation.

01:16:13

Because you just heard it said who justifies the ungodly. Joseph Smith changed that to who does not justify the ungodly.

01:16:21

Which results in Mission Impossible. No one can be saved if the ungodly cannot be justified.

01:16:27

Right. So, let's try it now. Let's try this now. Give me a verse. Give me a scripture. And do this so everyone can hear.

01:16:33

Stand up and say it nice and loud. So, just real fast. James Chapter 2. We've done messages on this.

01:16:39

James Chapter 2. In context, James is not at war with Paul. Which is what some people try to say.

01:16:44

Paul definitely teaches justification by faith apart from works and Christ. That's clear. But James teaches the other side is that it is faith plus works.

01:16:52

James Chapter 2 starts in James 2 .10 and it says whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet stumble in one point he's guilty of all.

01:16:59

So, you really going to go to James 2 and try to appeal to James as though James were teaching you it's obedience and faith for salvation.

01:17:08

He says if you keep the whole law and you stumble in one point you're guilty of the entire thing. So, the question to ask the

01:17:13

Mormon as you go through this with them as you start to explain James 2 is have you sinned today? Now, if they say no they just did.

01:17:25

If they say yes then you point out to them you're going to a text where James tells you in James 2 .10

01:17:32

if you keep the whole law and stumble in one point you're guilty of the entire thing. James is not teaching you that obedience to God's law or works in any way is going to help you.

01:17:41

As a matter of fact James 2 is not talking about what Paul is talking about. His question is not whether you're saved by faith alone or faith and works.

01:17:50

His question is what kind of faith saves? A dead faith? A mere said faith?

01:17:55

A profession of faith? Or a living faith? Christians don't believe that you're saved by dead faith.

01:18:02

We don't believe that you're saved by a fake faith. That's James' point.

01:18:08

Someone that says they have faith but they don't have works. Can that kind of faith save them?

01:18:13

And the Christian answer is no. Just because you profess faith in Jesus doesn't mean you know him.

01:18:19

True saving faith that is a living faith produces works. And James' entire point there is that the only way that your faith is vindicated before men is by what you see.

01:18:33

The works. The only way I know you really believe is by what you do. Amen? Yes? And he uses the example of if somebody comes in and you say

01:18:41

Oh be warm! Be well fed! And then boom! You shut the door in their face. He says

01:18:47

What's that? What good is that? Did they mean it when they say be warm, be well fed?

01:18:53

They don't mean it. And so faith that is living faith produces works.

01:19:00

James' point is this. Just like father Abraham. How do you know father Abraham had faith? How do you know?

01:19:06

James says because he offered his son on the altar. That's how you know his faith was alive. James' discussion is not about faith saving faith plus works saving it's what kind of faith saves.

01:19:18

Real faith or dead faith? But let's just do this real fast because we're running out of time and everyone's going to kill me.

01:19:25

I need verses though. Give me some verses to give the word of God to the latter day saint.

01:19:30

Give me a verse nice and loud that teaches that you are saved through faith in Christ apart from works.

01:19:37

Give me a verse. Yes, brother. Nice and loud. There you go.

01:19:45

Very good. One of my very favorites. Romans 3 28 We conclude that man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

01:19:52

Faith by itself is faith alone. Another one. Yes. Very good.

01:20:14

Yes, sir. Very good.

01:20:29

That was in our catechism, wasn't it? Very good. That's why we catechize and that's why our kids are here.

01:20:35

Yes, sir. Very good.

01:20:47

Let's have you, brother. Whoo! I love that one.

01:21:09

Very good. I saw a hand up over here too. Did you have a hand? Who had a hand up on this side? I saw a hand. There you go.

01:21:14

Yes, sir. Very good.

01:21:38

That's the promise we have. That's the promise we have. Let's do one more. Anyone got another one? Let's do one more.

01:21:45

Let's do it. Nice. You've got to stand up and say it nice and loud. Was your hand up?

01:21:50

You got a verse? Okay. Let's do one then two. Do you have a verse? You can say it.

01:22:00

You can say it. So, everyone believing in Christ gets what?

01:22:17

Eternal life. That's right. Believing in Christ. Eternal life. Last one. Nice and loud.

01:22:37

Very good. It's faith that joins us to Christ. Do you feel challenged at all?

01:22:43

Yes? Do you know what you believe? Why you believe it? I think, and we'll end it on this.

01:22:50

You see how important this is for our mission, of course. But I think that one of the dramatic failures of our generation is the pulpit.

01:23:00

The pulpit. We are not teaching believers what the Word of God says, why we believe what we believe.

01:23:07

It's a mishmash of TED Talks on a Sunday rather than through the Bible, expositional or solid doctrinal preaching.

01:23:15

We don't know what we believe. We don't know why we believe it. And we're so ineffective in the culture and the world around us because we don't know what we believe and we don't know why we believe it.

01:23:25

So many young people raised in Christian homes that had professions of faith as young people going to youth groups and all the rest, when they go away to college, they abandon their faith because they don't know what they believe.

01:23:40

They don't know why they believe it. So when some of the silliest attacks come against them for their faith, their faith collapses because they never knew them to begin with, ultimately, but they didn't know why they believed it in the first place.

01:23:53

So here's the question. Do you know what you believe and do you know why you believe it? If someone challenges you on how a person is reconciled to God and has peace, can you explain it?

01:24:04

Do you know where to go in the Bible? And I think Jerry had it perfect. Some of you guys also said it.

01:24:09

You need to know Paul's explanation of the gospel in Romans. Listen, you can go to simple texts like my favorite verse in the entire

01:24:18

Bible, John 5, 24. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my voice and believes him who sent me has eternal life and does not come into judgment but is passed out of death into life.

01:24:32

That's simple. Those are the words of Jesus. Faith, eternal life, no condemnation, no judgment, right?

01:24:39

But oftentimes, you need more of an explanation. How? How does that actually take place? You should know

01:24:45

Romans. You should know Romans chapters 1 through 6 like the back of your hands.

01:24:50

Paul explains the gospel from soup to nuts and he moves all the way through to the grace of God, just how gracious it is.

01:24:56

But you should know Romans well for your own soul and so you can preach it to others. Here's why

01:25:02

I love Romans so much. Are you ready? Paul, through his work and his labor and of course the other apostles but in particular, the apostle

01:25:08

Paul was used by God as this amazing missionary planting churches in the first century and the world is transformed.

01:25:15

I want to know the gospel he preached. I want to know how the world was turned upside down through that gospel.

01:25:20

I want to know it. I want to preach what he was preaching. I want to believe what he believed because that is the message of the gospel inspired by God and you and I should know it.

01:25:30

Amen? Are you challenged? Yes, are you ready? Okay.

01:25:35

Who's going? Who's going to hit the streets? Now listen, okay. Some of you guys are like,

01:25:40

I don't know, okay. All right. It would be valuable. It would be valuable for you to come and even pray or to pray on the days that you know we're going as missionaries out there.

01:25:56

It would be good for you to be ready to pray or just show up and pray. Just show up and listen.

01:26:03

Just be present and show up and I love when I see people say, I'm just going to go. I'm not going to say anything.

01:26:09

I'm not ready to talk. I'm just going to go and I'm just going to pray. I love watching those people show up and then just like halfway through a conversation they're just like,

01:26:17

I got to say something and just start going at it. So just show up. Come and join us as we do missionary work to our

01:26:24

Mormon friends and neighbors. Let's pray. Father, I pray, Lord, that this is something that would bless your church and your people for your glory and for your kingdom.

01:26:30

Use us, Lord, in our witness and testimony to, Lord, lead your sheep out of the darkness of Mormonism.

01:26:41

We pray that you would use us to bring light and salvation to those people. In Jesus' name, amen.