Three Main Topics Today on the Dividing Line

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:34

And welcome to The Dividing Line on this National Bowtie Day. It is

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National Bowtie Day and so I, being one of the leaders of the movement to reestablish the propriety of bowties,

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I had to wear one of mine today. This is one of my Bowties Limited of Vermont bowties.

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I suppose I should zoom in on it but I won't. But it is

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National Bowtie Day and I had to inform Albert Mohler. I had to inform

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Albert Mohler that it was National Bowtie Day. And given that Dr.

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Mohler is sort of our leader in this movement, it was very, very disappointing that I had to let him know that today was

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National Bowtie Day. But I did and hopefully that means that he, we all, if you're in the leadership, you always carry an emergency one with you.

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So hopefully he switched into that if he was not already wearing a bowtie for whatever it is he had to do today.

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So hopefully that, but it is National Bowtie Day and so in honor of that, I am wearing my bowtie today.

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But that enjoyable part aside, lots of pretty important stuff today and I'll be perfectly honest with you, it's going to be a little hard, especially toward the end for those of you on audio.

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You know, I know for years and years and years it's all we could do but we can do more now.

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It's sort of like, some of you audio folks complained that, well you were talking about stuff we can't see.

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Well, you know, there was a day when radio was all you had and should we have not gone to TV?

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You know, I mean, seriously. You know, and so now we have this opportunity.

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Believe you me, when the net first started, we weren't thinking about stuff like this.

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You know, I mean, remember, oh my goodness, it's a 14K file, it'll take all night.

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Hey, guess what? I just got me a 19 ,200 kbps modem.

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Oh, that's right. That's right. I've got X modem and Z modem and Y modem and oh yes, the idea of even transferring large pictures.

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Well, I remember my first digital camera, it was 640 by 480 was the resolution, 640 by 480.

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That was the best it could do and you could only put about 20 pictures on it and the memory was filled up. So that's just, you know, it's the way things go and so if you're listening and you're running on a treadmill or doing something else, okay, there may be, this may be an episode you may want to go back and grab the video and take a gander at a few things.

03:30

I want to start off, I tried to get hold of Brother David Old but I was not able to get hold of him.

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It is early. Let's see what time it is. There is a green light on my

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Skype and my request has been accepted. I'm still waiting for him to respond. Oh, okay.

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He may be getting coffee at the moment. Well, yeah. I mean, it's what? It's about, nah, it's almost 8 o 'clock there now in the morning.

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I mean, come on. We've got to get this guy up and at it. I mean, I was hoping to hear from, you know, about a little after 5 maybe, you know, then a little after 6, but we'll get started here and see if he contacts us.

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But, Brother David Old, now I noticed the title on this. This is the

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GayNewsNetwork .com .au. He is an

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Anglican minister in Sydney, Australia. Now, some of you may recall,

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I've gone down to Sydney a number of times. David's always been a part of what we have done down in Sydney.

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The last time I was there, I was preaching at his church. That was when we had to change the schedule and I had to preach early because Australia was playing

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New Zealand in rugby, and there is one major religion in Australia, and it's rugby.

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And so we had to change schedule. But anyway, David, some of you who have seen my favorite debate on Islam with Abdullah Kunda at the

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University of New South Wales will remember the moderator was

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David. David was the moderator of that particular debate. Well, he told me a number of months ago that he had been contacted because remember, he got selected to go on that Australian television show,

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I forget what it was called, and talk about homosexuality. And he chose to take that opportunity.

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Well, because he did that, he was then contacted by another television group and invited to do a reality show.

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And the title of the reality show is Living with the Enemy. And what it involved was for a certain number of days, a homosexual couple lived with him.

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And then for a number of days, he lived with them. And this was all videotaped.

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And obviously, his desire was to get into some serious conversation that would actually make it onto Australian television that would be longer than, and it might require a few minutes here and a few minutes there and a few minutes down there to make it work.

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But in almost any situation in the media today, having the opportunity to really engage the issues and discuss what marriage is and what the intention of marriage is and things like that.

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And of course, this is especially relevant here in the United States, given that a federal district judge has now struck down Utah's laws against polygamy, which we've told you for a long time.

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I mean, Scalia said, hey, here comes polygamy. And it's, you know, the floodgates are open and it's coming.

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How did this happen? Well, a few of us were sitting over here going, remember us? You know, you mocked us for talking about the slippery slope and that there wasn't a slope.

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It's actually a cliff and so on and so forth. So it's rather relevant. Well, it seems that next week,

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I think sometime next week, it'll say in a video I'm going to play here, but sometime next week, this episode is going to air.

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And as a result, the previews and people are getting to watch, you know, they're releasing the episode to some people so they can watch it ahead of time and things like that.

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And so. Very clearly, the spin has begun and it's just nasty.

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I mean, for example, I look, I know David and David's almost always smiling.

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Did they tell him not to smile? Stop smiling, David. In almost all the pictures that I've seen, he's not smiling.

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And of course, he's got a holy Bible in his arms there. And, well, the other two are, you know, you know, arm around the other and so on and so forth.

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And so. What happens when a same -sex couple, an anti -gay marriage minister, an anti -gay marriage minister.

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Why don't they call the same -sex couple an anti -Christian same -sex couple?

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Well, because you don't do that. But this is, of course, the gay news network. So you're not exactly going to expect much in the way of fairness.

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Are made to live under the same roof? Find out in the new SBS series, Living with the

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Enemy. And so they go through and they, you know, I've got some pictures of these these two guys.

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And I guess I need to be watching this here because it may. This is a gay website.

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And but anyways, here's a here's a picture. Unlike most newlyweds, their blissful wedding day is about to play out in Australian living rooms across the country as it airs on national television during the first episode of a brand new

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SBS series called Living with the Enemy. With the aim of challenging some of the ingrained prejudices that linger in Australian society.

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Each week, the six -part series produced by Shine Australia will bring together strangers with extremely different outlooks on life to live.

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Challenge them to live in each other's pockets for a 10 -day period. Above, Anglican church minister

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David Old watches the wedding. So I didn't know that he had actually had to go to the wedding.

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I was unaware of that. In the first episode,

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Storer and Barnett, who live between Melbourne suburbs of Ashwood and Carnegie, are sent to stay stay in with Anglican minister

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David Old in his Western Sydney parish. Needless to say, Old isn't pro marriage equality and goes so far as to insist that the men sleep in a caravan on his driveway rather than on the same roof as his three children.

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He explained to them that his youngest were just too young to even attempt to explain why these two men were sleeping in the same room.

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So instead of asking David, it says homosexuality is a sin as far as he's concerned. Therefore, anything that comes from a homosexuality is wrong and should be stopped,

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Storer says. He has a disconnect between the dogma of his church and the reality of people resented to him.

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Again, it's just so one -sided, it's unbelievable. I just went by that quickly because there is a

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F -bomb dropped there by one of the other homosexuals in a combination that I had never even seen before.

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It's just so nice. But anyways, they're not nice. Here is the trailer.

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Are you ready for the trailer here? No? Yes, okay.

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Here's the trailer to the series. Hello.

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Why isn't that working? Okay, you weren't ready for it. Okay, here we go.

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The whole homosexuality is a sin. There is no sin because there is no God.

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At television first. Our governments would not persecute people in detention centers. People with opposing views will live together for 10 days.

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It would be rude of me to come to your house and say, no, no, your food is sh -t, I'm not eating that. Well, you tell me why you want to get married.

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You should be kicking the ground you walk on once you get into the detention center. We do. Anthony, what do you believe in?

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Living with the Enemy starts Wednesday, September 3, SBS1. And I think that first episode is

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David's. Well, just looking at the nastiness that Dave was posting on his

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Facebook page, I got a little defensive. I mean, I'm used to nastiness.

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I mean, every day it's, who's going to lie about me today? What am I going to be accused of today that I have absolutely nothing to do with?

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But when people I know do this, what is that?

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Here's a Living with the Enemy one. This is dangerous to do. Could you spend 10 days living with your enemy?

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The whole homosexuality is a sin. There is no sin because there is no God. Striking a great blow to the heart of what marriage is.

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People with opposing views will live together. All the artwork you see hanging is by me or of me.

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So many of the pictures are sexual. It's not my thing, really. Tell me why you want to get married. Because people like you put so much emphasis on it.

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Why do you want to get married?

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Because people like you put so much emphasis on it? I just hope that there is enough of the actual conversation in the final product to actually allow people to not only think, but to hear what

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David actually says. What's bugging me is he's being presented the pictures as this dour, homophobe, and all the rest.

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We know that's all the homosexuals have. Once you get into an actual conversation, it doesn't work real well.

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We've proven that over and over again. They've got to go for the homophobe, bigotry angle.

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That's all they've got. But I know David, and I know that if he was given almost any time at all that he would have in a very clear, uncompromising, and yet winsome way communicate the truth of these issues.

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So I need to be praying for David. I'm assuming he's going to be getting not only a lot of heat, but also a lot of opportunities over the next at least couple weeks to say something, to speak out.

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And, of course, there's going to be a bunch of people that are just going to be trying to whitewash him as some kind of Neanderthal.

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Again, because it's just all they've got. There's no way of getting around that.

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So maybe next time around, next week, we can arrange to have him on or something like that.

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We tried to get hold of him today, but he may be very busy with stuff like that today. That's why he hasn't been able to get back to us.

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I don't know. But we definitely tried. So pray for David and anybody else who would dare to put himself in a situation like that.

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You'll want to expand out the screen on the same thing here, because it goes over to this side now, because I'm changing gears, put the clutch in, change topics here for the next quarter of the program.

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I should have queued this up, and I probably could actually find it while we're listening to this in a moment.

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Because I didn't want to... Yeah, I was going to do that. Let's go to Facebook real quick.

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Did you catch that, Rich? I'm going to Facebook to find something.

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Are you proud of me? It took you years to get me to do stuff on Facebook, and now you're like, stop, you crazy person.

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Of course, some of that stuff is like, I found an awesome fractal program on my iPad, and now

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I'm just going to be killing people with fractals. Stop! You're insane. Let's see here.

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I'm getting close. I'm getting close. It's right there. Found it.

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And the nice thing is I can copy link on one computer and move it over.

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Go ahead and leave that. I'm not going to... I've got to bring one other thing up, but I'll go back to it. And there is

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YouTube. And good. We'll need to show that one in a second.

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Here's the situation. I mentioned, I believe I mentioned in the program last week, that I was going to be listening to a presentation by Sheikh Yasir Qadhi, Dr.

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Yasir Qadhi, who finished his doctorate at Yale in Islamic Studies, from a presentation that he made in Norway.

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In fact, I'm actually going to do this first if you want to move over to the YouTube one. There you go.

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Let me... I don't know why that went to 6 minutes and 30 seconds, but let's see how this is going to work here real quick.

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The reason I'm playing the beginning is because right at the beginning they give the summary from his final statement. Listen to what he says.

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Never ever has a group come from within our tradition, performing acts of terrorism, killing innocent people, wanton violence, and then they have brought about everlasting peace and good from this movement.

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Do you really think at the age of 19 you will carry the wave of jihad forward, and your people triple your age, don't know what they're doing?

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Jihad is a legitimate term, it's a noble term, we shouldn't be ashamed of it. But those groups that misuse and abuse the term jihad, we should be brave enough to stand up for the sake of Allah, and criticize them because they're harming the real jihad, much more than any non -Muslim can ever harm it.

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May Allah subhanahu wa ta 'ala allow us to be people of the true jihad, and not the false jihad. May Allah subhanahu wa ta 'ala allow us to do jihad as He is pleased with, and not a jihad that is false and that will lead us astray.

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May Allah azzawajal return izzah and glory to this religion. May Allah subhanahu wa ta 'ala bring peace to this earth.

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May Allah subhanahu wa ta 'ala cause us to live as Muslims, to die as shaheed, and to be resurrected amongst the nabiyeen, and siddiqueen, and shuhadaa, and saliheen.

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Wasalamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Okay. Notice the,

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I'm not sure if you can see, underneath the actual window there, there is a term.

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Qawatij, or Mujahideen. The modern jihadists. Qawatij, or Mujahideen.

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Basically in this talk, he discusses who the Qawatij, Qawatij, who these individuals were.

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These were fanatics. These were individuals that he said

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Muhammad made reference to as young overzealous men from whom nothing good comes.

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And basically what he does is he says these groups like ISIS, these people who engage in murder and killing of innocent people, and so on and so forth, that these people are hurting true

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Islam, true dawah, et cetera, et cetera. Now, there's all sorts of things in the presentation that I disagreed with.

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I mean, there is the constant drumbeat in regards to the

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Palestinians, and no recognition that it's really the Muslim countries that are using the

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Palestinians and abusing the Palestinians, and Hamas is doing that, and so on and so forth. There was really no discussion of Christians, what was going on with that.

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So, obviously, Dr. Khadi and I would have lots of disagreements, and we've expressed those disagreements in some of the emails that we've exchanged.

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We've never met, but we've talked on the phone, and we've corresponded a good bit, and I've mentioned for years that, for example, he was kind enough years ago to send me his 16 -CD set,

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Light and Guidance, and I found that extremely useful, very, very clear. I have seen a movement on the part of Dr.

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Khadi over the past number of years. Certainly, I've seen the same thing in Shabir Ali.

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You listen to stuff from Shabir back in the 1990s, and listen to him now, and he's moved a long way.

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Both have not moved to the right, they've moved to the left. Not as far for Dr.

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Khadi, but very clearly, there was a time when he was very obviously identified with the

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Salafi movement, and that's not a term he would use of himself any longer. Now, why do I say all this?

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Well, all the time on social media, I'm using social media, but sometimes

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I just feel like stopping using social media. There are times I just want to close my

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Twitter account, and there are times when I want to sign off on Facebook, and it's not so much unbelievers being unbelievers, as it is

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Christians just being so gullible in the things that they say and the things that they post.

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I mean, half the stuff you see on Facebook, you actually look it up, and it's some type of a fake. There's all these fake news places out there, and someone tweeted me something a couple days ago, look, in California, they're allowing humans to marry non -humans, and it was from one of these onion type things.

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All of us have probably gotten taken in by a couple of these things, and if you haven't started getting just a little skeptical by now, you need to become a little skeptical by now, and before you do the forward thing or the like thing or whatever, you might want to just check it out and see if maybe.

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So, I was going to go through some of the statements that Dr.

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Khadi made in this presentation, and go, look, all the time on social media, what we hear is, well, look at what these animals in ISIS are doing, and no

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Muslims will stand up and say anything. How many times have you heard that? You hear it on Fox News, you hear it from Sean Hannity, you hear it over and over and over and over and over again, and they don't cover anybody saying anything, so most of us go, yeah,

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I haven't heard anything. Well, have you been listening to anything where you would have heard anything? And so,

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I've been looking around, and I mentioned that Shabir Ali put out some videos.

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It was striking to me that rather than a real

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Hadith -based, Sharia -based refutation,

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Shabir quoted from the UN Statement on Human Rights, which

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I don't think the guys in ISIS are overly concerned about that at all. I don't think they're really worried about that.

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But, the fact that, you know, for those of us on this side, we see what's happening, we see the persecution of Christians, we see the burning of churches, we see the murder of people, and it is so emotionally involving that what happens is we fundamentally, we don't want to invest the energy any longer to be people of truth.

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We just want to throw them all into one big basket and say it's all them.

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It takes energy to make the proper distinctions. And the problem is that's exactly what most of the

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Muslims do to us. We don't like it, but that's what they do to us, and so we return the favor.

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And it takes energy. And when you see that video of the heads put up on a fence and the headless bodies laying there, now, there's about a 90 % chance all those people were

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Muslims that they killed. They were their political enemies. Most of the people who are dying are not

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Christians. No, they're not. They're Muslims. Muslims are killing Muslims.

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And if they ever drive all the religious minorities out, believe you me, they're not going to stop murdering.

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Muslims will turn on Muslims, and you'll have divisions even within the Sunnis. See, right now, the

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Sunnis are killing the Shiites, and the Shiites return the favor. But, I mean,

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ISIS, these people are irrational animals. I mean, you want total depravity under the guise of religion?

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There you go. When you've got little kids running through the streets holding decapitated heads by the hair, this is

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God's judgment on a level that's absolutely amazing.

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And yet, most Christians don't see it that way, unfortunately. Need to, but we don't. So I understand the fervor of people that says, you know what,

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I'm not interested in making distinctions. They're all just against Christ.

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Well, unless you've bowed the knee to Christ, everyone is against Christ. Every atheist, every secularist, every beer -swilling

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American southerner who just goes out to the lake and goes fishing and shoots a few rounds off of his shotgun while he's fishing and just, good old boy, is also against Christ because they have not submitted to Christ.

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So, I mean, that's a given that you have either those who are submitted to Christ or those who are not, those who have spiritual life and those who do not.

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That's an absolute given. But you have to make distinctions between people, especially if you're going to try to witness to them.

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I mean, it obviously would not be overly wise to go flying over to Syria today and land in Lebanon or Jordan or something, cross the borders and go try to find some

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ISIS fighters and try to pass out some four spiritual laws to them. That's not a wise idea.

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Not smart. But if you don't make a distinction between those

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ISIS fighters and the Muslim who lives next door to you, then you're never going to speak to that person next door now, are you?

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Because you're going to fear them the same way you fear the ISIS fighter because you think they want to chop your head off and stick it on a fence too.

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And this is what's really bothering me and what I'm seeing in social media is this, let's throw them all the same thing and it's just...

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And so as a result, we don't even look for stuff like this and when we see it, all we can say is, yeah, well, he didn't say it the way

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I'd say it. Well, what do you expect him to say? He's speaking at a Muslim conference.

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Do you really expect him to speak like us? I mean, he still believes that we engage in shirk, that our worship of Jesus is idolatry.

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So, do you expect someone in his position to hold our political perspectives, if there is a political perspective that we hold?

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Do you expect them to speak in the way that we would speak? And so, there have been people and organizations who have said this stuff is wrong and they recognize that when you see these people doing these horrific acts and they're screaming

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Allahu Akbar, that doesn't exactly help the

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Islamic cause much, does it? No, it doesn't. But what happens is, that attitude then results in a willingness to misrepresent

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Muslims just because they're Muslim. And we, as Christians, do not have the right to do that.

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If you think that we do, you are wrong. We do not have the right to lie about anyone.

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So, an article appeared yesterday on Jihad Watch, Robert Spencer's website.

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And it's dated yesterday, but the information is rather dated.

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This is dated August 27th, 2014 at 1249 PM. Tennessee Imam, who calls

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Jews and Christians filthy, uses ban on Foley vid to argue for blasphemy laws.

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And right below it is a screen capture, you know, what you have in a

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YouTube video when it appears on a website, of Yasir Qadhi from a number of years ago. He's in Memphis, so Tennessee Imam, who called

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Jews and Christians filthy. Now, that immediately caught my attention.

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That immediately caught my attention. Dr. Qadhi does not really, as I see it, see himself, at least right now, or hasn't in the past, as an individual called to engage in interfaith dialogue.

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I really put the full court press on him to write a book with me, and he came close, but he wasn't finished with his doctorate yet, decided he didn't have the time to do that.

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But one of the things I had to overcome, even to get him to think about it, was he just doesn't see that. He sees his calling is to speak to the

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Ummah, to the Muslim people themselves. But Tennessee Imam, who called

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Jews and Christians filthy. Never said that to me.

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In fact, one of the more interesting conversations we had was when we were talking about doing a book, because we have to talk about, well, okay, once we come to the conclusion, where do we go from here?

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We both think the other one's going to hell. I mean, he said that to me. He never called me filthy.

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He was never disrespectful to me. But I knew what the

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YouTube video was, because I had seen it before. Let's play the YouTube video. And what this is, is this is only a few minutes long.

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These are short snippets, and you can hear when you're listening to it, these are short snippets from a lengthy presentation that if I'm recalling correctly, yeah,

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I'm pretty certain I played major portions of this on the dividing line probably around 2008, 2009, around there.

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I didn't go back to look. It's too hard to do that. But some of you may recall the fascinating programs that I did where I explained, using

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Yasir Qadhi's presentation, the concepts of Tawhid, the forms of Tawhid, Rububiyyah and so on and so forth, and what shirk is, because it's central to an understanding for a

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Christian to understand what the barriers are between us and our Muslim friends as we seek to present our faith to them.

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We've got to understand that the vast majority of them think that we are inviting them to commit the unpardonable sin.

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You've got to know what Tawhid is. You've got to know what shirk is. And you've got to be prepared to respond to the misunderstanding that Muslims have based upon the

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Quran of what we believe. The author of the Quran did not understand what we believe. That's one of the key apologetic issues, in my opinion.

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And so I used this material, and it was some of the best, clearest. Yasir Qadhi's American, therefore you're not having to overcome that accent issue that is the problem we're having right now in listening to Ahmadinejad.

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A lot of people go, I just can't understand what he's saying. Not an issue with Yasir Qadhi. His Arabic's really good, very clear and easy to understand.

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He's a good speaker. And as I said at the time, one of the things I respect about Yasir Qadhi is he seeks for consistency.

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I mean, I remember listening to one of his presentations and he was berating his own people saying, and he's memorized the

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Quran, but he has berated his own people for saying, why do we have, why do we get our children to memorize a text and language they don't understand when we're not even teaching them the basic principles of what that text says in our own language?

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That doesn't get you a lot of friends. That's not the easy way of doing things.

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That's not going with the flow. And I respect that. We could have some,

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I think we could have some great debates. I wish we could arrange some, find some churches down there in Memphis that would help sponsor it, man.

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And I think we would have some great non -personal, it wouldn't be me versus him, it wouldn't be playing games, it would be a clear

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Muslim presentation, a clear Christian presentation. I would love to have that happen. I really, really, really would. Anyway, I used this presentation.

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So what this is, is these are clips from this presentation.

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Let's play it. Refresh your memory, because I'm sure everyone remembers exactly what I talked about on the dividing line six years ago.

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But let's listen in. This is the precise definition of shirk, to make a partner along with Allah subhanahu wa ta 'ala.

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And we realize then that obviously shirk, which is the opposite of tawhid, must by necessity and by definition be the most evil of all evils, as Jews and Christians are mushrikoon in our perspective of tawhid.

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As we have studied, we can understand how. And only the Muslims are upon tawhid. And it is also the same reason or the same principle of tawhid, which is the first obligation upon every single human being.

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That he bears witness and he testifies that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah subhanahu wa ta 'ala.

36:58

And it is because of the same principle of tawhid that the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam has been commanded to do jihad.

37:06

Jihad is a means and not a goal in and of itself. It is a means to establish tawhid on the land.

37:13

I have been commanded to fight the people until they testify la ilaha illallah.

37:22

So the whole reason why Allah subhanahu wa ta 'ala has created us and sent the

37:27

Prophets and revealed the books and differentiated us based upon this principle and allowed for jihad is the basis and is the principle of tawhid.

37:38

The life and property of a mushrik holds no value in the state of jihad.

37:47

Notice I said in the state of jihad, not at all times and places. The life and property of a mushrik becomes halal while in a state of jihad.

37:58

The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam said and recorded the hadith before, I have been commanded to fight the people until they say la ilaha illallah.

38:05

And when they say la ilaha illallah, he went on, when they say la ilaha illallah, their life and property become protected from me.

38:13

Which means if they don't say la ilaha illallah, their life and property are halal for the Muslims. So the

38:19

Christians do commit shirk. They are kuffar and they are mushrikun. The mushrikun are najis, they are filthy.

38:27

Najasa. They are filthy, a spiritual filthiness which can only be purified by the purity of tawhid.

38:34

Allah calls the mushrikun najis, which is a very evil thing. When Allah himself says the mushrikun are najis,

38:40

Allah is calling them najis. They are a najasa, a filthy, impure, dirty substance. Okay, so there you have the portions of the lecture.

38:54

And so evidently, the title, Tennessee Imam Who Called Jews and Christians Filthy.

39:02

Well, what was the context of that? Well, there are a couple of things that need to be pointed out. I played the same section about what, about the state of jihad.

39:12

That if there, but what they didn't play here is what he said.

39:17

What he said was you have to have an Islamic caliph.

39:23

That's why this small group of bearded guys running around in jeeps in Iraq and Syria have proclaimed a caliphate.

39:34

That is a ruling body for all Muslims. Now, I'm sorry, but the vast majority of the world's

39:41

Muslims chuckle at the claim to caliphate that ISIS has proclaimed.

39:47

There's somebody down in Nigeria that's done the same thing. And, you know, every little group's going to proclaim their,

39:52

I'm the caliph and la la la. And that doesn't mean a whole lot because you're not going to get all these

40:01

Muslims to agree with one another, especially with guys like these guys. But what he says was the only way for jihad to exist is for a caliph to proclaim the state of jihad.

40:20

Now, these guys in local areas convince people, well, I'm the caliph and I've declared it and so we can go off and do whatever it is we do.

40:28

And hence, anyone who is a kafir, their life and their property becomes halal to us.

40:36

We can take that. It's for Muslims to take. That's the state of jihad because we're now defending the ummah, etc, etc, etc.

40:43

They didn't play that portion. So he put those conditions on. Those are not conditions, obviously, that I find overly encouraging.

40:53

Seems like a thin line, but he did state those things. And to ignore those things is inappropriate.

41:00

But here's the whole reason I've gone through all this. What really concerns me here is that a

41:09

Christian who says, oh, look at this. He calls Jews and Christians filthy. Should that bother us?

41:19

If a secularist were to post an article about a sermon that I preach on Isaiah 64 -6, you know what

41:33

Isaiah 64 -6 is, right? Umm, all of us are unclean.

41:39

Each one of us has gone his own way. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags before the Lord. And if I were to say that every single human being who has not bowed the knee in repentance and faith to Jesus Christ, the only way of salvation, will stand before a holy

42:05

God, unclean, impure, and therefore must be rejected by that holy

42:16

God. Have I not just called all human beings other than Christians filthy?

42:23

Yeah, I have. Because spiritually, there's only one way of being cleansed, right?

42:30

The blood of Jesus Christ. That's central to Christian theology. Would a secularist have the right to put up an article that says,

42:40

James White calls all Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, and secularists, and a bunch of his own people who call themselves

42:51

Christians, filthy. Would that be a fair statement?

42:57

Well, on one level, the spiritual level. But if they did so just with the intention of poisoning people's ideas, poisoning their attitude toward me, we would object to this and say, you need to put in the context in which

43:14

I stated it. I was filthy before God. I am a filthy sinner.

43:20

The only reason I can stand before God is because of what Jesus Christ has done for me. Well, what Yasir Qadhi was saying is, to be an idolater in Islam is to be filthy in God's sight.

43:31

That actually happens to be something the Jews, Christians, and Muslims all would agree about. We disagree on what it means and the cure, but we all agree that idolatry is wrong before God.

43:42

That's what he was saying. They couldn't even cut enough of that out of the talk because he specifically said spiritually.

43:50

They are nejis. That term comes, I won't bother to, in fact, come to think of it,

43:58

I don't think I can bring it up anyways, but it comes from, it's used in the

44:04

Quran at Surah 9, 28. It's used, if I recall,

44:09

I looked it up in the Arabic this morning, in the substantive form. That they are najas or najasun.

44:20

Najasun, I think, is what, I don't have it in front of me, sorry, I forgot to bring it up in here, it's on my other computer. And my

44:26

Zechariah program on here, the desktop presenter doesn't like it very much because it's a JavaScript thing. But anyway, it's used in, off the top of my head,

44:35

Surah 9, 28. Could, on a simple level of fairness, can a

44:47

Christian argue against a Muslim speaker saying that idolaters are not right before God?

44:57

No. And that's the problem. We cannot use double standards.

45:06

So many of the arguments I see being used on Facebook are being used by people who don't seem to realize, um, have you been reading much of the

45:15

Old Testament recently? Do you not realize that these are arguments you're making against Islam, and I haven't heard your argument in regards to our own history on this subject?

45:30

It's just amazing to me. We can't do this. We have to,

45:36

I know it ruins all sorts of really emotionally satisfying arguments.

45:43

But are we not people of truth? Don't we think the truth is enough? Are we not demonstrating that we don't trust the

45:53

Holy Spirit of God to use the Word of God to come alive in the hearts of Christ's sheep? You know,

45:59

I can understand this for Arminians. Arminian has to, Arminian has to really go for the emotions and go for the emotional stuff, and so they're not going to be consistent.

46:11

But for Reform folks, we do not have the right to do this. Our arguments must be consistent.

46:19

They have to be consistent. And we say that those who are idolaters, who are in a state of idolatry, who are not right with God through Jesus Christ, are under, are abiding on God's wrath.

46:32

It's part of our worldview. It explains tsunamis, for crying out loud.

46:38

And yet we turn around, and a Muslim that's saying from their perspective, you say, well, how would you argue against that?

46:46

How have I argued against that over and over and over and over again for years now? Going back to well, uh, 2008 debate in London with Adnan Rashid.

46:58

What was the debate about? Does the Quran misrepresent the Trinity? You demonstrate that we are not engaging in shirk.

47:07

We are not associating any uncreated thing with Allah. Our worship is of the one true

47:13

God. The issue is, does God's revelation demonstrate that the one being of God is shared by three divine persons?

47:20

And did the author of the Quran understand that? He did not. That's the issue. That's the approach.

47:29

So, it just, as you can tell, bothered me a lot. To see this misrepresentation.

47:37

And then, when I dare to say, excuse me, you're misrepresenting Yasir Qadhi. Well, I think you're just,

47:44

I think you like him too much, and so you're just blind to these things. What? I would love to debate the man.

47:52

Yes, I respect him, but I want him to know the truth. And that makes me, what, too friendly?

48:01

I mean, I sat down at lunch with Adnan Rashid before our debate at Trinity College, and it resulted in so much of a better debate for everybody that was there.

48:13

And you think we shouldn't do that? Well, they're opposed to Christ. Yeah. And I want to be one of the first people that they will listen to, to find out what the truth of Christ actually is.

48:25

And what's the better way to do that? Lie about him, or speak the truth to him? Yeah, I'm passionate about it.

48:34

I'm passionate about it, because I understand, I watch those videos, and I'm filled with anger.

48:42

And then I have to go, truth is more important than my anger. And God uses his truth, not my wrath, to accomplish his purposes.

48:53

Just that simple. Just that simple. All right? Okay. Let's, I got one more thing to do here, and this isn't, do

49:05

I really have time? Well, look, if I have to go five minutes beyond, I'll go five minutes beyond, or whatever.

49:12

Really shifting gears third time, and this is the tough stuff. This is the tough stuff. And I need to give you the tough stuff here.

49:20

All right? You should have accordance now. The subject of conjectural emendation in the text of the

49:36

New Testament came up over the weekend when a

49:45

Reformed Baptist pastor made some comments about a brief portion of my discussion with Todd Freel in the

49:59

DVD on the reliability of the New Testament. Todd Freel came up, asked questions, we talked about King James Only -ism briefly.

50:07

And I responded with a, well, it ended up being half an hour long, I think, but with a

50:14

ScreenFlow video that I did at home sometime over the weekend. Well, there are certain people

50:22

I hadn't heard from this one particular individual for quite some time. There are certain people out there that just sort of,

50:29

I don't know, they do their thing and then every once in a while they'll come out and throw a few darts my direction and they go do their thing again for a while.

50:39

And some comments have been made in regards to this issue that I want to try to address.

50:49

This may be one of the most difficult subjects to address to a wide audience.

50:56

And I hope you take it as a part of my respect for the audience that we have that I would even try this.

51:05

There are almost no webcasts on the planet that would attempt this, that would even try.

51:15

And it may be a spectacular failure because it just may be too tough to try.

51:25

But let's take a shot at it. What's more is, some people would say this is really unwise because you're giving the enemy ammunition.

51:36

Well, again, you speak the truth and you leave the results in God's hands.

51:42

And if someone wants to twist the truth and abuse the truth, nothing I can do about that. And I'm not talking about Christians at this point.

51:50

I realize that this type of information is primarily going to be used by non -Christians. But again,

51:56

I think that a knowledgeable Christian populace is much better than an ignorant

52:05

Christian populace. I want to look at the two probably the two most difficult textual variants in all the

52:18

New Testament. In all the New Testament. Now let me give you the context.

52:25

The context was a fellow Reformed Baptist pastor saying, basically accusing me of inconsistency by saying why are you so upset about the

52:37

Kamiohonium? If you are so upset about the Kamiohonium, why are you not upset about what the modern texts are doing in two places that were specifically mentioned?

52:51

And what I tried to do is place this in some type of a context and none of the responses have actually recognized that context.

53:02

What I was trying to point out is that the texts that are referred to are doctrinally irrelevant.

53:11

There is no point of doctrine or teaching that's even here. They are not therefore parallel to the

53:19

Kamiohonium on that level. They are not parallel to the Kamiohonium on the level of the textual evidence for the variant.

53:30

And as such, therefore, just do not in any way change the point that I was making in the original video with Todd Friel, in the

53:43

ScreenFlow video, etc., etc. But we need to look at them because they've now been brought up.

53:48

They've been posted over at Confessing Baptist and, well, you were wrong about this and you were wrong about that. Now there's confusion about what a conjectural inundation is.

53:55

I was using that specific term as it's found in the Nessie Olin text. I pointed out they've removed all the

54:01

CJs, conjectural inundations, from the textual notes. But there has been an individual over there that said, oh, but they've inserted the text and so that's what

54:11

I want to look at. So, let's start by looking at Acts 16 -12.

54:20

And this is where those of you who are listening will need to be looking.

54:26

Because you can't discuss textual variations, manuscripts, and critical apparatus without showing it to people.

54:38

I've often said there'd be no way that I could do my King James Only presentation without a digital projector.

54:46

Because if you can't show manuscripts, if you can't put an arrow on something and say, look at this, there's no way around it.

54:54

You can't do it. I don't know how it was done in the olden days. I guess they didn't have things like this in the olden days.

55:03

Anyway, here is, and I don't know, it's going to be big enough.

55:10

I think it's big enough. I mean, if I can see it without my glasses on on that screen from here, it's going to work.

55:22

Here is Acts 16 -12. And let's go over here and let's just make sure that everyone has the information here.

55:32

New American Standard says, and from there to Philippi, which is a leading city of the district of Macedonia, a

55:38

Roman colony, and we were staying in this city for some days. ESV, and there to Philippi, which is a leading city of the district of Macedonia and a

55:47

Roman colony, we remain in this city some days. That's why I've always said that the ESV and the

55:53

NASB is just the same thing just without semicolons. Go back to the textual reading here.

56:00

And here's the issue. And Accordance is putting in blue the term prote.

56:10

And then, I'll move out of the way so we can see it, but I'll put the word after it.

56:17

Notice that the last letter of proteis, a final form sigma, is in parentheses.

56:30

And this is the Nesialon 28th edition. Not the 27th, which a lot of people still have.

56:38

In fact, you know what? I'm not even sure. I think I have a printed edition of the 28th.

56:43

I'm not sure. I think I do. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I do. I should have grabbed it. This is the 27th. But this time,

56:50

I have the 28th on the left -hand side. I have the apparatus of the 28th on the right -hand side.

56:56

And in between, I have Comfort's textual commentary and Metzger's textual commentary. For those of you who don't have and you can get all these, again,

57:07

I can't comment on what BibleWorks has or has not, because I don't do Windows anymore, but you can,

57:14

I'm certain all these are available in Logos as well, so whatever you want to use. But I know we make available the very substantival, and I don't mean that grammatically or syntactically, but I do mean you could whack somebody upside the head.

57:30

Don't give me that look. The New Testament Text Translation Commentary by Philip Comfort.

57:37

Very, very, very useful. Comfort gets a lot of dissing by certain people, but man, this is a huge, huge work.

57:44

Very, very, very useful. Tremendous amount of information. For those of you who still like to have big old books on your shelves and things like that, we actually have that in the bookstore too.

57:54

But that's within the second column. And here's the textual commentary. As you can see, considerably smaller than the

58:03

Philip Comfort thing, but from Metzger. So there's far fewer. This is just the variants that are found in the

58:09

Bible Society text. Comfort has a much, much wider variety of ones that he deals with.

58:16

Those are what are in the two center columns of the desktop that I have in accordance right now.

58:23

And so when you look over here, at the apparatus over here, you can see

58:33

Protei, Teis, Meridas, Protei, Teis, Meridas, Teis, Protei, Meris, Protei, Teis, and then finally you have

58:47

Kephelei, Teis, and then you have text, and the only thing listed is manuscripts of the

58:54

Vulgate. What all of this is saying is that it's extremely difficult to understand the description of Philippi as Protei rather than Proteis.

59:16

And so utilizing nowhere over here in the apparatus do you find a sigma between the eta and then the tau of the definite article

59:33

Teis. There's no, it's not there, it's not there, it's not there, and so the brackets are indicating the insertion of a reading that is not actually found in a

59:47

Greek manuscript. Single letter. And you can read the discussion, both provide extensive discussions.

01:00:00

Comfort says the majority of NU, Nessie Island United Bible Society, editors adopted a reading without any

01:00:05

Greek manuscript support, which is the insertion of a sigma, single letter, because historical evidence does not support the fact that Philippi was the principal city of Macedonia.

01:00:14

Thessalonica could make these claims. However, the Alexandrian manuscripts, whether in variant one or two, are not implausible because Philippi was a leading city of the district of Macedonia, though not the principal or capital city.

01:00:26

There is no definite article in the Greek before Proteis. Furthermore, Philippi could have been called first city as a matter of civic pride.

01:00:34

Metzger and Wickren, two of the five editors of the NU text, expressed their dissent to the majority vote in favor of the view just expressed.

01:00:41

Not one English version, notice this, not one English version has followed the NU text, and rightly so because it has no backing in any

01:00:49

Greek manuscript. So, the whole thing is right there, that little sigma is what is being referred to as a conjectural emendation that was never cited as a

01:01:05

CJ in the Nessie Island text to my knowledge. I looked in fact, this is going to make it so crowded if I can find it.

01:01:26

Oh, I put it down there. Well, that's nice. That actually works because then

01:01:31

I can blow it up. Now, here you'll notice that in the

01:01:43

NA -27 apparatus, as I mentioned in the ScreenFlow video, they removed all the conjectural emendations.

01:01:50

You will not find CJ anymore in NA -28. They were in NA -27. And so, they refer to, again, show the

01:02:00

Vulgate, some Vulgate manuscripts, and it's in reference, they didn't identify the sigma specifically, but they said

01:02:11

Clericus suggested, and then they have the conjectural emendation put there.

01:02:17

The changing of prote to proteis. And there's a whole bunch of discussion of,

01:02:24

I'm going to take that out so we can read this again, a whole bunch of discussion by Metzger.

01:02:29

For example, he states, Hort denied that Meris could ever denote a geographical division, and for this and other reasons regard the passage as primitively corrupt.

01:02:38

In other words, no manuscript contains the original reading any longer. Subsequent to Hort, however, examples of such geographical usage have turned up in the papyri, in inscription, and in late writers.

01:02:49

But what is the meaning of proteis against translation chief city is the fact that not Philippi, but Thessalonica was acknowledged to be the chief city of Macedonia, and Amphipolis, the chief city of the district in which

01:03:00

Philippi was situated, some suggest that the author means that Philippi was the first Macedonian city, which

01:03:05

Paul and his companions came in that district, but as a matter of fact, the apostle first set foot in Neapolis, which apparently belonged to the same district as Philippi.

01:03:13

Furthermore, apart from questions of geography, one may well wonder why, on this interpretation, the meaning of protei. Luke should have wished to call attention to something so inconsequential in his narrative.

01:03:22

Number three, in view of the use of protei as a title of honor, found in Corinths and Pergamum and Smyrna, as well as inscriptions referring to Thessalonica, Lake and Cadbury translate the passage

01:03:32

Philippi, which is a first city of the district of Macedonia, a colony. In their comments, however, they point out that as a definite title, the word has been found so far only in the cases of cities that were members of a koinon, league or union, in their particular province and were not

01:03:47

Roman colonies at the time. Since Philippi does not qualify in either respect, they conclude that it is more probable the meaning of protei in this passage is simply a leading city, the rendering subsequently adopted by the

01:03:58

RSV. The difficulties involved in reading protei led to attempts to correction in other branches of tradition, and it goes through some of those, etc.

01:04:06

etc. Dissatisfied for various reasons with all these readings and Greek witnesses, a majority of the committee three out of five preferred to adopt the conjecture proposed by members of scholars from Le Clerc to Blas and Turner, namely to read proteis for protei teis with the resultant meaning a city of the first district of Macedonia.

01:04:29

Those who adopt this conjecture usually explain the origin of the commonly received text as due either to the accidental reduplication of letters tei or to a misunderstanding of the correction if by mistake a copyist had written protei and then teis were written over it to correct it.

01:04:45

The reading proteis meridas is paralleled by primae partis found in the three

01:04:51

Latin Vulgate manuscripts, but it is doubtful whether this version of reading represents an original Greek witness or whether it originated within the

01:04:58

Latin tradition. At the same time, in order to take into account the overwhelming manuscript evidence supporting protei, the majority decided to enclose the final sigma of proteis within square brackets.

01:05:10

Then it goes on to say, despite what have been regarded as insuperable difficulties involved in the commonly received text, it appears ill -advised to abandon the testimony of, and then it gives the testimony such as P74 Sinaiticus Alexandrus, especially since the phrase can be taken to mean merely that Philippi was a leading city of the district of Macedonia and that then is the

01:05:30

Bruce Manning Metzger his notation at the end along with, it says

01:05:38

Ka but this says Wiccarin, but anyways that was his basically statement saying,

01:05:48

I don't agree with this, I don't agree with this insertion. So, that is what's being referred to, is the difference between how you translate protei and proteis.

01:06:00

Now yeah, I realized this a little after but I won't get the other one in because I said

01:06:05

I was going to do it. There you go. Now, is that parallel to the

01:06:11

Kamiohonium? Is it indicated directly in the text by the brackets, and is it is

01:06:22

Metzger himself, the one who says this can be this is not necessary to do. It is.

01:06:28

It is. Could we hope that and do I have confidence that once the again, this is specialized information, realize the reason we've gone from NA -27 to NA -28 is that there is an ongoing project a multinational project in examining the text of the

01:06:50

New Testament and they've gotten through the pastorals and therefore the NA -28 incorporates the changes that have been come up with in the pastorals, like Jude 5 where now it's

01:07:01

Jesus is the one who led them out of Egypt rather than, it's Jesus rather than Kurios. When they get to Acts will this be dealt with and will we have probably the reading of P -74,

01:07:15

Protei, Teis, Meridas? I think so. I hope so. The wonderful thing about having a critical edition of the

01:07:21

Greek New Testament is you don't have to worry about that sigma. You don't have to go with that. It's right there in the textual apparatus.

01:07:30

That's what's nice about having all the information available to you and that's why ministers should be trained in Greek so they can read those things.

01:07:39

There's the first one. The second one I found very interesting and that's 2 Peter 3 .10 2

01:07:45

Peter 3 .10 Um and here again

01:07:50

Nestealon 28th apparatus over here NA27, sorry

01:07:55

NA28 text here There has been a change between the

01:08:02

NA27 and the NA28 at this point. So depending on what you have you'll want to note that.

01:08:13

But this is 2 Peter 3 .10 and looking at the

01:08:20

Nestealon 27th, the difference is right here.

01:08:26

I'll have to blow that up there. Here is the word uk which means not and the

01:08:37

NA27 does not contain that. In the text it is let me see down here yeah yeah it's not down in the apparatus either.

01:08:55

So there's the difference between the 27th and the 28th. If we go over here you see this little thing right there and that diamond well

01:09:07

I gotta move it here see the 1, 2, 3, 4th symbol here is a little diamond.

01:09:17

And down below in the automatic information it says the sign diamond indicates passages where the guiding line is split in the second edition of the

01:09:25

ECM because there are two variants which the editor's judgment could equally well be adopted in the reconstructed initial text.

01:09:32

In the ECM apparatus the alternative variant is marked with the diamond as well. In the present edition diamond precedes the reference sign of the respective variant passage and the variant text in the apparatus.

01:09:44

So what you have here is here is the reading of Sinaiticus B and others uh

01:09:53

Eurathesitai and now it says not found you know remember you've heard

01:10:02

Eureka I found it well that's the Greek term to find something and so now the 28th edition says not found whereas the previous edition said found.

01:10:19

Once again it is all a translational issue in trying to figure out what is being said and in both of these you had the mention of some

01:10:33

Latin manuscripts in Acts 3 Vulgate manuscripts that could reflect the a

01:10:42

Greek original that had a sigma. Here you have the Syriac the

01:10:48

Sahidic uh the uh specifically the Philistinian Syriac and some manuscripts of that and the

01:10:58

Sahidic uh translation which have a which would indicate that they were translating a

01:11:07

Greek original that had the Greek negative in it, the Uk but there are no Greek manuscripts that have that um once again this is a situation where you can come up with an understanding of what is found in the earliest manuscripts um but it's quote unquote easier uh to read it as it has now been put in the text and since I'm assuming that 2nd

01:11:48

Peter is a part of what has been done in the ECM and so this is a rather interesting insertion on their part um

01:12:00

I believe it's Comfort that mentions um he says the

01:12:08

Westcott -Hart NU reading could very well be original, the awkwardness and opaqueness of the verb can be removed if it is understood as a divine passive will be found out by God as such the verse speaks of divine judgment when all the universe melts away on the final day of judgment everything that has been done on earth will be exposed to God's judgment all will be discovered as to its value, this concept suits the context which speaks of what will occur on the final day of judgment various scribes wanted to make this statement parallel to 37311 change the verb to a different verb um there was

01:12:43

I thought a discussion of reading it as ook because remember

01:12:49

Comfort is prior to the 28th so there isn't any discussion of any 28 and if I were

01:12:58

Comfort I wouldn't invest time updating because there is going to be a 29th before a very long period of time anyways so there is really no discussion of that particular issue there so those are the two uh toughest not toughest in the sense of you know there is one in Galatians 5 as I recall where the difficulty is how fractured the manuscript tradition is how many different possible readings there are this is it's interesting that both of these are variants that arose because of the difficulty of understanding what the intended meaning was and that the texts and the difficulties all revolve around trying to resolve that now in neither text do you have any central doctrine of the

01:14:03

Christian faith referenced at all and these are the most difficult ones that we have the strongest arguments could be made the two texts the strongest arguments could be made against tenacity and ook and a sigma and that's one of the reasons

01:14:23

I did this partially to respond to those who were saying oh see you were wrong about that no I was talking about CJ I was talking about conjectures you're saying oh well but this is a conjecture because ook is not found in a

01:14:36

Greek manuscript it's represented in translations that's why it wasn't identified as a

01:14:41

CJ and in neither place would I support the insertion of anything that's not found in a

01:14:49

Greek manuscript it doesn't look like Comfort did and Metzger didn't seemingly on the

01:14:56

Acts 3 reference either so I wanted to clarify all of that because there's been a lot of I think misunderstanding of what we're actually talking about here a what does this illustrate and we'll wrap up with this what does this illustrate that the two toughest variants where you could mount an argument against tenacity actually demonstrate when you think about it ook is three letters sigma is one letter

01:15:30

I didn't look this up I know how many words there are in the

01:15:37

New Testament 138 ,000 plus in Greek but I wonder how many letters there are and there are four in a handwritten text four letters that you can marshal an argument about and none of them change the message in the

01:15:58

New Testament in the slightest way maybe that's why atheists and people like that don't bother to use these things

01:16:05

I don't think though I think the reason that atheists and others don't use these texts is because they don't understand them it's too complicated but the point is four letters that's all you got that's point number one that's just a general thing that has nothing to do with the

01:16:23

Textus Receptus stuff so just in a general thing the reason I invested this time is to say ok this is the toughest stuff they've got this is the toughest stuff we're going to run into as far as an original reading goes and it has to do with two texts as to how to describe

01:16:42

Philippi and what Peter's talking about here in regards to when the elements melt and four letters, grand total ok secondly translationally you can make an argument that there was a

01:17:00

Greek original on both of those just note that in passing thirdly, getting to the context of what

01:17:05

I was talking about neither one of these have anything to do with the point that I've been making all along and that is if you defend the comma everything

01:17:14

I've been talking about here is irrelevant because you can have entire, not just not a sigma but entire doctrinally relevant, centrally relevant texts completely disappear from the

01:17:30

Greek manuscript tradition completely, gone bye bye and from the earliest translations, because it's not in the earliest

01:17:40

Latin, it's only in the later Latin and why do you do that?

01:17:46

solely for tradition solely for tradition you're not using the same weights and measures here for that argument for the comma and then one last thing to point out that in the

01:17:58

ScreenFlow video, what did I point out? I gave you a real conjectural emendation one that actually has impact from Revelation 16 .5

01:18:08

where you have a reading of the King James that comes from Theodore Beza I would think that there would be some response to that but there wasn't but there wasn't so, once again

01:18:23

I know that was tough, I'm sorry I put a few people to sleep, I apologize we deal with some we've looked at textual variance in the

01:18:31

Quran on this program it happens, and I'm wearing a bow tie too so that even happens but I didn't wear a pink shirt and I didn't have

01:18:41

Mr. Rogers music in the background so we didn't do that, didn't freak you out completely it is

01:18:48

National Bow Tie Day so it's just a requirement some of us have signed up anyway, isn't it really a blessing to be able to discuss these things because some people

01:19:01

I don't want to hear about this stuff it makes me uncomfortable what you're saying is

01:19:08

I'd rather be ignorant just tell me what to believe I don't want to have to be able to check it out

01:19:14

I don't have all that information I don't want to know about that stuff just give it to me in black and white that's pretty much the attitude

01:19:21

I've gotten from most Mormon missionaries that I've encountered you know that's a cultic mindset isn't it wonderful we have this kind of information we're open about this kind of information

01:19:35

I can share even if you don't have these resources you just got to see them on the screen wow, do we realize how blessed we are

01:19:45

I mean I could not have done this presentation 10 years ago couldn't even discuss this even when we started doing the dividing line on the web could never even touched it couldn't have done it

01:19:59

I think it's a blessing and we better be thankful for it while we still have the freedom to do it and to be able to address these issues so for those of you who turned me off 10 minutes ago you're not going to hear all this stuff anyways but that's okay it's something we want to address something we need to address and I'm glad we can address it so I did not finish

01:20:21

Akhmedida because I figured after all the stuff we talked about today that would have been almost laughable

01:20:30

I mean how do you shift to he's alive from talking about what we just did so we'll have to do that the next time and I think next week

01:20:42

Tuesday will be normal but I'm going to be out of town for a couple days and so we're either

01:20:49

I think we're looking at Friday but you can't do it Friday oh okay, so a week from Friday is going to be cool okay, alright so it's probably going to be

01:21:02

Tuesday, Friday next week because both Rich and I have gotten the desire to see green trees and I'm hitting snowball again got to deprive myself of oxygen, which some of you think

01:21:20

I do on a regular basis, evidently but I need to I'm heading back up real quickly, on the website we talked about the upcoming really cool thing in Boulder and Hasim, son of Ramallah king of graphics gave us a really nice banner ad well,

01:21:43

I sent him some stuff, actually the folks in Boulder helped with that, dates, doctrines, and dead people, lessons from the early history of the church and I got to go back because it went bleep, there we go

01:21:53

September 11th, 12th at 6 .30pm then September 14th, 9 .30

01:21:59

and 10 .30am, Flatirons Baptist Church 5475 South Boulder Road, Boulder, Colorado you'll notice it's on a

01:22:07

Thursday and a Friday and then a Sunday why not Saturday? because me and a lot of the guys from the church are going to be riding 100 miles and climbing about 8 ,000 feet at altitude on Saturday and so Saturday night if we try to do something

01:22:26

I'd be going we're just going to end up as a meme somewhere oh yeah, there's a meme but I'm just being honest with you these guys up in Boulder, they're in great shape so that's part of the reason why

01:22:41

I'm having to go to Flagstaff too, so that I don't die by the side of the road but we're going to be doing early church history and that'll be fun of course, the guys we have in the graphic, we're not really church history guys, they're

01:22:54

Reformation guys but it's okay, no one really cares they're old and they're dead so you know whether you're

01:23:01

Calvin or Athanasius, you're both old and dead, so I guess that fits, but we've got that coming up so if you're in the

01:23:09

Denver Boulder area it'd be great to have you there at Flatirons Baptist Church Eric Ellis and the guys there at the church, and that'll be coming up September 11th, 12th, and 14th unless we fall off the mountain at which point in time

01:23:22

I need to announce that September 14th will not take place but we hope that's not going to happen so that'll be coming up so we're excited about that so next week,