Romans Chapter 11

I'm not yet. Hey, go ahead. I'm just waiting on my sausage. He likes your sausage, Rodney. Guys, if you want to open up your Bibles to Romans 11. I always feel bad erasing this. Is this up here for a reason?

Romans 9–11 and the Question of Israel

We have been studying the book of Romans chapter by chapter, which means that we have taken large sections. We haven't been able to dig deep down into any particular thing, but I have tried to give you the overall understanding of the book.

And as we today come to Romans 11, we are not to the end of the book, but we are to the end of Paul's argument regarding the question of the Jewish people. The question goes something like this. Paul begins in Romans 9 by saying, if all of Israel has not received Jesus, if all Israel has not come to Christ and received Him as Savior, then does that mean God's promises to Israel have failed?

Because God promised to be in covenant with Israel. God promised that He would hold them in particular sanctification and regard and that He would bless them. And this promise goes all the way back to Abraham when he tells Abraham to look at the stars of the sky and the sand of the sea, and he says, so shall your descendants be.

And I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you, and through you all the world will be blessed. This was what we call the Abrahamic promise, which was later codified in the Abrahamic covenant, where God made this promise to Abraham and solidified it through covenant and then later gave him the sign of circumcision, which was to mark out his descendants.

Circumcision was a mark given to Abraham and to all his offspring to mark them out as the people of God. And yet when Christ came, Christ came to preach or to die for sinners, and He has been rejected by many in Israel.

In fact, most Israelites rejected Christ. Paul would go and he would go to preach and he would go into the synagogues and he would preach to the Jewish people and many of them rejected him. So he would go out into the marketplace and preach to the Gentiles and many Gentiles received him.

And to the point where Paul eventually says, I'm going to focus on them. And it became known that Peter was the apostle to the Jews and Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. And so there was this understanding that the majority of the Jewish people had rejected their Messiah.

So beginning in Romans 9, Paul deals with this question and he makes his first point in Romans 9 that God has not promised to save every single descendant of Abraham and he proves that by showing that Abraham had more than one son.

He had Ishmael, he had an adopted son named Eliezer, he had other sons and daughters through Ketorah, his second wife after the death of Sarah. But it was through Isaac who the promise would come. And then Isaac had two sons, Jacob and Esau, and God didn't choose Esau, He chose Jacob.

And so God shows His purpose according to Romans 9 of election that He can choose to show mercy to whom He wills, that He's not obligated to give mercy to anyone. And so we see that through chapter 9, Paul defending God's freedom.

We often want to establish our own freedom. We want to establish our own free will. But the Bible says God is free and no one can say to God, why have you done this? Because who are you, old man, to answer back to God?

He is God. Think about the end of the book of Job when Job was sort of in a position where he had an opportunity to question Yahweh and what did God say? Were you there when I formed the earth? Were you there when I laid the foundations?

Can you put a hook in the nose of the Leviathan? No. You are man and I am God and I don't owe you an explanation. That's something we get upset about. We think God owes us an explanation. God doesn't owe you anything.

God is God and you are not. And so we get to chapter 10 and Paul continues this argument. He says, My heart's desire and prayer for Israel is that they be saved. And he talks about the fact that they have a zeal for God but not according to knowledge.

And we talked about that last week. We talked about the fact that they had rejected the Gospel and wanted instead to be saved by what they did, ultimately to be saved by the keeping of the law. And what is the Gospel?

The Gospel is that we can't be saved by the keeping of the law. We have to be saved by faith in Christ, the only one who kept the law perfectly. If you think you're being saved by keeping the law, you will be disappointed on judgment day.

In fact, if you want to think that you're saved by keeping the law, just open the law and begin reading and you'll find yourself to be lost. There's a movie version of the book The Pilgrim's Progress.

I think you guys here watch it periodically. I don't know if all of you have seen it. But it's a digital film. It's not a live action movie, but it's like a digital cartoon. Digital animation. And at one point in the movie, Christian, who is the main character of the book and the film, he finds himself at Law Mountain.

And he begins to try to climb the mountain. And every time he tries to climb, the law weighs him down and starts popping up the law. And he can't find his foothold. And it knocks him back down. And I love that picture because what that picture is, it's a picture of the idea that anyone who tries to establish his own righteousness on keeping the law is going to ultimately find himself utterly in despair.

Because what the law does, according to Scripture, is the law condemns. The law does not save. It cannot save. It wasn't intended to save. It was intended to be the schoolmaster that leads us to Christ, according to the book of Galatians.

Romans 11 and the Olive Tree of One People of God

So now we get to chapter 11. All that was just an introduction. We get now to chapter 11, and Paul is going to conclude this lengthy three-chapter conversation about the Jewish people. And he's going to say a few things that are a little difficult to understand.

Probably the most difficult, I think, is in verse 26, where he says all Israel will be saved. That's been a controversial and difficult passage to understand. And I'm going to try to get to that today.

But I do want to mention this is a long chapter. It's 36 verses. So we're going to read it all the way through. And then I'm going to pray and seek to give an understanding of it. So let's read. I say then, Has God cast away His people?

Certainly not. For I also am an Israelite of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah? How he pleads with God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed Your prophets, torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek My life.

But what does the divine response say to him? I have reserved for myself 7 ,000 men who have not bowed the knee to Baal. Even so then, at this present time, there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

And if by grace, then it is no longer of works. Otherwise, grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace. Otherwise, work is no longer work. What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks, but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Just as it is written, God has given them a spirit of stupor, eyes that should not see and ears that should not hear to this very day. And David says, Let the table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a recompense to them.

Let their eyes be darkened so that they do not see and bow down their back always. I say then, have they stumbled that they may fall? Certainly not. But through their fall, to provoke, to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.

Now if their fall is riches for the world and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness? For I speak to you Gentiles, and as much as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry.

If by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are of the flesh and save some of them, for if they are being cast away, is reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

For if the first fruit is holy, the lump is holy. And if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off and you being a wild olive tree were grafted in among them and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches.

But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say, them branches were broken off and I may be grafted in. Well said, because of the unbelief you were broken off and you stand by faith.

Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God on those who fell, severity but toward you, goodness.

If you continue in His goodness, otherwise you will also be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in. For God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut off of the olive tree, which is wild by nature, and grafted contrary to nature into the cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are natural branches be grafted in to their own olive tree?

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of Gentiles has come in.

And so Israel, excuse me, and so all Israel will be saved as it is written, the deliverer will come out of Zion and he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. For this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.

Concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But concerning the election, they are beloved for the sake of their fathers. For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. For as you were once disobedient to God, yet now have obtained mercy through their disobedience.

Even so, these also have now been disobedient and through the mercy shown you, they also may obtain mercy. For God has committed them all to disobedience that he might have mercy on all. All the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God, how unsearchable are his judgment and his ways past finding out.

For who has known the mind of the Lord, who has become his counselor, or who has first given to him, and it shall be repaid to him. For of him and through him and to him are all things to whom be glory forever.

Amen. Father in heaven, I thank you for your word. Lord, I pray even now that you would make me a fit vessel to preach your word. Keep me from error. Sanctify me by your truth. Forgive me of my sins and help me to walk rightly before you.

I pray for these men that they would understand what your word has to say, particularly on this issue of the Jewish people. And pray, Lord, that we would never hold ourselves in such high esteem that we would find ourselves to be haughty and look down upon those who are not in Christ, but to understand that the only reason any of us are here is because of your divine grace upon us.

I pray, Lord, for the believers in the room that they would be sanctified by the preaching of your word, and for the not yet believers, Lord, that you would draw them into yourself and give them the grace of justification which leads to life.

Rejecting Bi-Covenantalism and a Separate Way for Jews

In Christ's name, I pray all of this. Amen. Several years ago, I watched an interview on a television program and it had Pat Robertson. Pat Robertson was part of the 700 Club, which was a Christian broadcasting program.

And I had many issues with Pat Robertson's theology and things that he has said over the years, so this is not an endorsement of him. Just understand I'm just using him as an example. He was sitting across the table in the interview from a Jewish man and they were discussing some political event.

I don't remember what it was. It was probably right after 9 -11 because it's been about 20 years ago that I saw the show. And as they were talking to one another, the Jewish man says to Pat Robertson, who was supposed to be a Christian minister, the Jewish man says, well, you, as a Christian, believe that I'm not going to heaven because I don't believe in Jesus.

And Pat Robertson said, oh no, you're Jewish and the Bible says all Israel will be saved, so you're fine. And I wanted to climb through the television set and strangle an old man. Now that may be a little harsh, but I was very upset because I said, not only have you perverted Scripture, but you have also given this man who rejects Jesus Christ confidence that he can continue to reject Jesus Christ with impunity.

That he can continue to reject Christ with no punishment. And I thought, Pat, what are you doing? Why would you say that? But that is one of the very bad interpretations of this chapter. And the interpretation goes something like this.

God has two ways of salvation. He has a way in Christ and he has a way for the Jew. And this is sometimes called bi-covenantalism, meaning that God will allow the Jewish people to be saved through the covenant that he gave them at Mount Sinai.

And God will save everyone else through Jesus Christ. And therefore, there are two ways of salvation. Now let me ask you a question, just off the top of, just without any time to really think about it.

Does that sound right to you? No, that's good, because it ain't. It ain't right. But that's the idea that some people have. Is that the Jewish people have a special plan that is outside of Christ. It doesn't make any sense, but what has happened as a result is, and there's a lot of teachers, there's a lot of guys on television who teach this, so I could name a few names and you'd all go, really?

But there's some guys that make their, they make their popularity through these kinds of teachings. And one I'm thinking of in particular, won't name his name, well I guess I could name his name, I just can't think of it right now.

He's a big chubby guy, not that I have any room to talk, but he's out in Texas. John Hagee, thank you. Who said that? Don't watch him. No, no, no, but John Hagee has been well known over the years for taking what can be known as a hyper-dispensational view of Israel.

And if you're not familiar with dispensationalism, dispensationalism is just a theological framework that helps to understand the Bible. I'm not a dispensationalist, but I don't think it's necessarily heresy, I just don't agree with it.

It's just an overall understanding of how the Bible works. And what happens in dispensational theology is the idea that God has had a plan from the beginning for Israel, and that the church was a parenthesis in God's plan, and later God's going to come back to focusing on Israel, and right now we're in the parenthesis, which is the age of the church.

And a lot of people teach this, a lot of people really like this teaching, and I'm not trying to confuse you, I'm just giving you some history on this, because if you've ever read the Left Behind books, they were real popular in the 90's, they were based on an end times view, or what's called an eschatology, that was dispensational.

So there was an underlying theological system which is based on a view of God's dealing with the Jews versus the Gentiles, or what we would say, Israel versus the church, and the distinctions are very vast, and I feel like I'm confusing everybody, so I'm going to back off of this a little bit, because I could chase this rabbit a long ways.

The point of it all is to simply say this, those hyper-dispensational views tend to think of God as having two plans, a plan for Israel, and a plan for the church. The Bible does not teach that. In fact, I hope to show you in chapter 11 of Romans, that it teaches the opposite.

It teaches that there's one tree. In fact, you heard him say that, right? When we were reading, he talked about the fact of there being a tree. He says there is a, imagine this is the ground, right? And he says there is a root, just imagine this sort of like a root system here.

He says there's an olive tree, and on this tree there are branches. He says now some of the branches, now we'll say this tree is Israel. He says, now imagine, okay, Abraham is the root, and he grows into this tree, and all these people are descendants of Israel, right?

Twelve tribes, right? All of this. He says now there are some branches that have been taken off, right? There have been some branches who have been taken off. We could, and he says it's because of unbelief, right?

But there are still branches there. In fact, that's what he says at the beginning. He asks the question, he says, has Israel, has God cast away Israel? Paul says, no, because I'm here, and guess what?

I be an Israelite. I didn't mean to say it that way, but that's what he said. He says, first of all, the first argument he makes is God has not completely abandoned Israel because I'm here, and I'm an Israelite, and then he uses Elijah as the example.

He says, remember Elijah, how he felt like he was the only one, and God says, no, you're not the only one. I have kept for myself 7 ,000 who have not bowed the knee to Baal, the false god, and so you're not by yourself.

There's actually 7 ,000 elect in Israel who have not bowed the knee, right? So when you think about this tree, and you think about the fact that some branches have been removed because of what? Unbelief.

That doesn't mean all the branches were removed. There was still a healthy Christian community of Jewish people. People who were Jewish by birth, but Christian by faith. Right? What? Well, yes, that's what they call themselves.

Some people call themselves completed Jews. Some people call them messianic Jews. I just call them Christians. Because the Bible says that wall of separation has been torn down. Ephesians 2. And whenever they say I'm a messianic Jew, I say, why don't you just say you're a Christian?

Again, I'm not trying to be ugly because I'm not mad at them or anything. I just think it's an unnecessary distinction. But yes, if we were saying these branches would be Jews who have accepted the Messiah, who have received Christ.

There's a guy on YouTube that I found back when I was doing my study of Genesis. And he was a Hebrew teacher. And I liked listening to him because he was going through the Hebrew of Genesis. But he was a Christian Jewish man.

Jewish by birth, Christian by faith. And he said something. And I can't prove this. He lives in Israel. He said something that I want to believe is true. But I can't prove it. So understand that I'm giving this to you secondhand.

And I can't prove it. But he said there's a much larger population of Jewish people that recognize Christ as Savior than we think. He says many of them know he is the fulfillment of their scriptures. But they can't say it because of the social ramifications.

Now, I mean, think about what it would be if you lived in Israel. And you started trusting in Christ. There are places in Israel that you can't even live if you don't keep the Torah. There are communities, what they call Sabbath-keeping communities where if you don't keep the Sabbath, you can't live there because that's the law.

That's the rules. It's sort of like a gated community here in America where you've got to keep your grass cut a certain length. Well, over there, if you don't keep the Sabbath, you can't live in those communities.

So this is the tree. And you have the natural branches who are in Christ. But then Paul paints another picture. He says, but there be another tree. He says it's a wild tree. I'm just going to give it a little wild.

It's a wild olive tree. He said, and God... By the way, that's the Gentiles. That's America. That'd be America. No, the wild olive tree that God has been gracious to take away some of its branches and graft them in to the natural tree.

And that's the picture. This is why I don't think there's two ways. Paul's not giving us two ways. He's saying there's one root. There's one way. Some people are in it. Some people aren't. And it's still that one tree, though.

Do you know who Christ is? Christ is the true Israel, the Bible says. Christ is the fulfillment of all the promises to Israel. So if you are in Christ, it's like you were a branch on a wild tree. God went and took a knife and He cut you off of the branch of that wild tree.

He took some of that agricultural tape that they use and He brought you over and He whittled a piece of the tree away and He taped you to it so that you begin to grow. And isn't that the picture that Jesus gives?

He says, I am the vine. You are the branches. Right? Jesus is the true Israel. And any man be in Christ, he is a true son of Abraham, Paul says in Romans 4 and in Galatians 2. He says the true sons of Abraham are those who trust in Christ.

So, Paul's argument. God hasn't abandoned Israel. God has taken away the unbelieving branches, but He's grafted in other branches from a wild tree and He's keeping the root. He's keeping the tree.

Yes, sir? I mean, is that just like another example of how the distinction between Jew and Gentile is going down?

That's right, because it's all the same tree. Now, you might be a wild, crazy-looking branch, but you're still in the tree.

Right, but He's just reinforcing that whole situation.

That's right. That's why I think it's dangerous when people begin to say there's two trees. Because when they say there's two ways, they're saying there's two trees. But that's not what Paul gives the analogy.

Yes, sir?

If you were discussing that with somebody, would Acts 4 .12... Remind me the text. "...and there is salvation in no one else,.

But there's no other name other than Jesus.". Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And that's the thing that I find so dangerous about that two-methodology thing. Because the idea that you can be saved apart from Christ, doesn't that just go against not only your passage, but John 14 .6, Jesus' own words, where He says, "...I am the way and the truth and the life, and no man cometh unto the Father except through Me.".

If the two-way method was true, then that would mean there's another way. Yeah, or he was wrong, which is worse, right? Well, I guess both are bad. He's either a liar or he's wrong. Either way, it's bad.

Yeah, and so... Like I said, I'm not strictly going verse by verse. I'm trying to show you the argument of the whole chapter. The argument of the whole chapter is, yes, there is one way. And this one way hasn't changed.

What has changed is who's involved. Because at one point, it was just Israel. But God has been gracious to open up the Gospel to the Gentiles. And looking around, I think most of us should be happy. Because I don't see anybody in here that maybe you're Jewish by birth, but I don't see anybody in here that's Jewish by birth.

I know you can't always tell, but I've been saying, if you're not Jewish by birth, then you are a Gentile. The Bible makes it distinguished in that sense. You're either a son of Abraham by birth, or you're not.

And the beauty of the Gospel is that the Gospel became effectual for all men everywhere. That it's no longer in just the Jewish people. Now, with that being in mind, I want to look at another issue here.

And that is the question. And I know I feel like I'm jumping over it, but I think I've explained what... Because Paul says what we've said. He talked about Elijah in the 7 ,000. He used the Scripture to back up his argument.

We see that in verse 8. We see that in verse 9 and 10. But then he gets to verse 11 and he says basically that Israel's rejection is not final. And what that means is those branches that were bent... You know, we said there were branches that got broken off, right?

He says, but ultimately, there is a time coming where God is going to graft them back in. And that's the part that's very confusing because this leads to a lot of questions about what's going to happen in the end times.

And as much as I love theology, I am not an end times guy. I don't get into the different arguments about tribulations and raptures and stuff. I have my view. My view is very simple. It's not dumb, but it's not intricate.

It's just simple. And it's based on the creeds. Christ is going to return and he's going to judge the living and the dead. And at that moment, he's going to usher in the final eternal state. And those who are in him are going to experience everlasting and increasing joy in his presence.

And those who are not are going to be in a lake of fire forever where they're in conscious torment. That's my eschatology. It's very simple. So what's with the tribulation? Is there any year of tribulation?

See, you just did it. You made me... You couldn't help yourself. I just... Okay, well... This is a... This is a bigger question because when you talk about eschatology or end times views, people automatically often come with preconceived ideas like you just said.

What about the tribulation? Well, if I were to ask you which tribulation and what do you mean? You would probably... I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you're probably referring to seven-year tribulation at the end of the age, right?

Yes. Is that right? Okay. That is a particular view of how to interpret Revelation. And it's based on a dispensational understanding of Revelation which is so ingrained in the American mind because that's all many people have ever been taught that they don't recognize that there are other views.

Like I would be what's known as a partial preterist amillennialist which would mean my view is very different than that. And so while I do believe there could be a time of tribulation right before the end, I tend to believe that the tribulation that's referred to in Revelation is referring to what happened to Israel during the time of the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 because that book was written to a group of Jews during a time of genuine tribulation that they underwent where their entire world was destroyed and their temple was burned to the ground.

And they watched it happen in real time. And if you read Revelation with that view then you come to some different perspectives. So do I believe that there's something coming at the end that could be a time of tribulation?

Yes, but I don't think it's necessarily the seven-year thing that most people have in their mind. Okay? Very difficult question that I want to give you. That's not an easy one.

Yes, sir. So out of the 12 tribes of Israel, some of them broke it off. Yes. You said... Out of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Yeah, out of their descendants. Yeah, there are those who... In fact, Paul says in this passage, a partial hardening has come upon Israel so that the Gentiles could be brought in. And that through that, they're going to be made jealous because they're going to see the Gentiles being blessed with the blessings that they should have had because they should have believed.

So yes. And the next question is, well, what... Is there going to be something in the end where they come back? And that's the part where he talks about grafting them back in that I think is a little difficult, but I do think it's possible.

I think that it's possible that when you get down to verse 25, 26, that when he says that a blindness has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, and so all Israel will be saved.

I think what he's saying is that there is coming a time when that blindness is going to be... Their eyes are going to be open to the Messiah. They're going to see the one that they have pierced. I see, brother, and I haven't rejected yet.

Just let me finish this. So yes, the idea that they've been broken off or branches have been taken away. But the hope based on these verses is that there will come a time where there will be revival, where they will actually recognize Christ.

And that's one of the ways that we can interpret the phrase all Israel will be saved is that it's referring to a massive revival in the end of the age among ethnically Jewish people. Yes, sir. You had your hand.

Yeah, I was going to ask that bi-covenantalism. Bi-covenantalism, yeah. Yeah, that. So could they have gotten that view from this part where it's talking about where they got taken away and now they're going to get grafted back in?

Could that be part of their view?

Well, I would say, though, that that would go against their view because their view is that they can be saved without being grafted back in because they're being saved by their own thing, not Christ. If you remember, the tree is Christ.

Yeah, that's Christ. That's what I was saying. Yeah. So yeah, I think the system fails on so many levels. The idea that there's a different way for Israel than there is for the church. Or for those who believe in Christ.

I just think it fails on so many levels. Because I had met,.

I was on a work list and I was talking to a dude and he was like, we started talking about separation and I was like, do you believe? And he was like, no, I'm a Jew. I go to the synagogue and all this and I didn't know how to even conversate with him.

I was like, I don't, I was like,.

How do you not see? You know what I'm saying? Sure. Like, how do you not see the Scripture as plain as day? Well, again, it says there's a blindness that's come over them, but also, in many ways, they are taught against it.

Yeah. There have been, and for the sake of fairness, there have been atrocities that have taken place against the Jewish people, some of which were committed by people who claimed to be Christians. I mean, even the Nazis claimed to have a certain Christianity, right?

Which certainly wasn't real. It wasn't true Christianity. But, there is a sense in which some people, some Jewish people are so opposed to Christ because of what they perceive as Christian oppression.

Sort of like telling somebody.

That's racist to don't be racist anymore. Sort of like that. Yeah, yeah. And so,.

There is a... It's a belief. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just an interesting reason why there is this sort of, you know, we're not going to accept that because they've hurt us or we feel like we've been hurt.

And, that's why when I heard that teacher say, you know, there's a lot of them that do believe but they can't say it. I understand the social pressure. Yeah. I understand. I'm not saying that's a reason not to...

Jesus says, if you deny me before men, I'll deny you before my father. They got something to consider in that. But, at the same time, I understand the social pressure of a Jewish person in the Jewish context if he comes to the conclusion that Jesus is the Messiah.

He's basically written his own disconnect. You know, his own letter of separation. Excommunicated. Yeah, he's going to be excommunicated. But I will tell you, I'm going to answer you, but if you ever have an opportunity to talk to a Jewish person, and I know it's not easy, but one of the things that could be helpful is to remember to point them to the law.

Because they believe the law. And you could even point to the Ten Commandments because that's... I mean, they obviously uphold them very high. And say, you know, brother, or I don't know if you call him friend, whatever, have you kept the commandments?

And he would say, no, he couldn't say yes. And then stress the fact, what are you going to do with that? You know, well, God is going to forgive me. Based upon what? There's no temple. There's no sacrifice.

You know, you have no sacrifice. There's no one cutting a heifer and bleeding it out on your behalf. There's no priest. There's no sacrifice. All of that ended in AD 70. See, I stress AD 70 so much. Most people don't even know what happened in AD 70.

But in AD 70, Emperor Titus came into Jerusalem and wiped out... Everything. Burned the temple to the ground. Jesus said, not one stone will be left upon another. And it wasn't. They burned the temple to the ground.

They even took the gold and everything, melted it out to take it with them. It was utterly devastated. And that ended. That's the last time a sacrifice has been made in Israel. It was 2 ,000 years ago.

So that's just a place to begin. Now, I know what his answer would be. He would say, we don't do sacrifice anymore. We do almsgiving now. They have a different method. I'd say, but where do you find that in the Scriptures?

You don't. They don't have a Scriptural answer. So that's just a thought. I'm sorry to get off trail, but they don't hold to... You know how Roman Catholics hold to a pope who, under his understanding, he can change Scripture and do whatever he wants.

Or interpret it. Yeah, interpret it how he wants. They don't have a leader that can do that. That can just change ceremonies and stuff like that. Like how you were just saying.

No, but they do have... They have historical traditions. Just like all religions and faiths. And so the... I don't remember when it happened, but there was a shift when there was an understanding we no longer have sacrifices.