August 2, 2018 Show with Todd Friel on “Social Justice Hysteria 101: Understanding the Buzzwords” PLUS Christopher Harris on “Voter ID, Illegal Aliens & the Misplaced Compassion of Leftist America” AND Joseph Jacowitz on “An Update on Family Radio”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Thursday on this second day of August 2018.

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I am so delighted to have back as a returning guest one of my very favorite guests of all,

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Todd Friel, who is an author, a conference speaker and the host of Wretched TV and Radio.

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He is also going to be a conference speaker at the upcoming G3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia that we'll be talking about in a little bit.

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Today Todd and I are going to be discussing Social Justice Hysteria 101, Understanding the

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Buzzwords and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Todd Friel.

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You know, honestly Chris, I think you can stop using the radio voice.

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Nobody, everybody went click, please not the social justice stuff, we can't take it anymore.

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Well, the reason I know that you want to discuss this and why a lot of our friends are bringing this up at conferences and other places of importance is because this is not the social justice we've all been familiar with coming from the pulpits and radio and television broadcasts and other media from liberal clerics, those that have been notorious for many decades for being apostate, for denying even such things often, not always, but often denying such things as the deity of Christ and the

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Trinity and the bodily resurrection and salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone and the substitutionary death of Christ and the major things that are pillars of Christianity and we're not necessarily talking about those pastors and individuals and denominations who are yet, and I emphasize the word yet, promoting same -sex marriage and abortion and things like that, but what we're talking about is actually being introduced to and coming out of the historically more reformed and conservative congregations and clerics, am

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I right? Yes, sir, you are, and to be clear, this issue,

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I think sometimes, Chris, those of us who are conservative, we can react a little bit like Fox News.

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We hear somebody say something, we render a verdict, that's it, it's done, I know what to do, I'm not voting, or whatever the issue is.

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Well, issues like this aren't that cut and dry, and they tend to take some time to play out.

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So let me say this, at this stage in this conversation that we're having about social justice in conservative circles, nobody's a heretic here.

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Nobody is. To Beatty on your relay, I disagree with him on virtually everything he says about this subject.

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His church, and he affirmed the 1689 London Baptist Confession of I am not going to treat him like a rat, a scoundrel, or some sort of subversive trying to wreck

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America. He's a brother, and I want to talk about it like that, because the goal here is not to label somebody a heretic, but to have a discussion about the concerns that many of us have about the recent jargon of social justice.

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Our concern is that we're choosing a path that simply is not biblical, and it is far more humanistic.

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When we start talking and sounding a lot like liberal progressives, then we need to stop and go, wait a second, what are we doing here?

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What are we trying to accomplish? I believe there's a more biblical approach, a more helpful and robust approach, than the one that is currently being led by a number of orthodox, high -profile guys.

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Russell Moore is one of those fellows. Matt Chandler is one of those fellows. David Platt has entered the fray.

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And so this is a big deal, and we want to talk about it like brothers and encourage people to jettison this recent manifestation that's being defined as social justice for something more biblical.

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Amen. And by the way, I interviewed on a number of occasions, probably at least four in the past,

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Thabiti Anyabwile, and two of those interviews were on his excellent book, The Decline of African American Theology.

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That was in 2009, I can email you the mp3s, and you will be thinking that you are hearing in a completely different person.

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And the thing that puzzles me is I have not heard, he may have renounced that book, but I have not heard him renounce that book, and it seems to be in direct contrast to what he is saying today.

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Did you ever see the interview with Jordan Peterson and that interviewer on a

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TV show, I believe it was on BBC in Great Britain? Did you see that? It's quite memorable. You mean

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Justin Brierley? Are you talking about the unbeliever? No, I'm talking about the unbeliever, Jordan Peterson.

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He's the psych prop of the universe. Oh yeah, I know who that is, but you said he was interviewed in Great Britain.

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I thought he might have been on... Oh no, no, no, I don't know who that was. Yeah, no, this is a woman who wanted to talk about the inequality of pay between men and women.

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And Jordan Peterson, no matter what Jordan Peterson said, the response was, it's because it's sexism.

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And Jordan Peterson said, look, there's no question. As a whole, women tend to make less money than men.

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The question, of course, is why is that? And of course, the woman chirped in, it's because it's sexist.

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And he said, well, no, actually we know for a fact there are 18 factors that contribute to the inequality of pay between men and women.

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18 factors. And we need to look at all of those. Now, one of them is sexism.

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One of them is indeed sexism, but there are 17 others. That's what

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I would say to this current movement. Look, we know there's racism. I got it.

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We all understand that and we want to address it. It's a sin, but there are other factors that are contributing to what we see going on in culture today.

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And we simply need to address those things and talk about those things. And I bring that up because Tabeti is right on point.

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One of the best things that we can do for the black community is to address what is going on in the, sorry for the lame name,

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I don't like putting a color in front of it, but it just helps us. With the black churches, we've got to address that.

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The prosperity movement, the word of faith nonsense, it is not helping that community. They need sound theology at their core, which will affect everything else.

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So Tabeti, let's go back to focusing on the biblical solution and let's leave the progressive talk to the progressives.

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Right, and I hope to get Tabeti on the program to address this with someone of the opposing view at some time in the near future.

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And it is, the whole thing is quite surprising to me because of the - Well, would you do me a favor?

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Try to ask Tabeti, what is it that you want? What is your vision for this?

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What do you see? Because all we're hearing right now is we want a conversation. We just want to talk about anything.

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And there's hints of corporate national repentance. There has been some talk about reparations.

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So my question is, what are we driving for? What is your picture of this societal utopia that's going to make everybody happy?

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Right. I have not heard the definition yet. And one of the most disturbing things about the trends in this movement, and I'm sure you would agree, is not that they are opposing racism, is that they are battling against or combating against racism with racism.

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They are guilty, many of them, many of the key spokespeople, are guilty of perpetuating their own form of racism, but they refuse to recognize it.

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Well, that's an excellent insight, and I would try to add another one, and that is, when we believe that white people must get involved in this issue to help black people, that to me makes it seem like black people are kind of helpless without us white folk.

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I think that is, I think it's degrading, condescending, and racist.

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Right, yeah. It's amazing how things have changed. For instance, being colorblind used to be a buzz word for liberals to say, we should all be colorblind.

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Now that seems to be an ugly and horrible thing for Christians to seek to be colorblind. We have to exalt people specifically because of their color of their skin or their ethnicity or what have you.

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Or gender now. Right, right. Complementarianism is now up for debate. And this is a fascinating subject too, because people like J .D.

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Greer, the president of the Southern Baptist Convention, again, a brother, says,

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I'm a complementarian, but let's have Beth Moore be the president of the SBC. And he has women preach from the pulpit of his church.

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And by the way, Chris, just as an aside, I'm a member of PETA, and I'm on my way to have a piece of prime rib.

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And there's nothing I like more than prime rib while wearing my mink coat.

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But anyway, we have some key phrases that we want defined today.

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We are going back to school with Todd Friel today. And in the classroom, we are going to have some key phrases defined.

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And these are phrases that are probably being defined in grammar schools and high schools everywhere. But unfortunately, not to critique the concepts, but to promote them.

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But let's start with deconstructionism. Well, this takes us back to postmodernism.

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And deconstructionism is the fulcrum that postmoderns use to reinterpret everything.

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Deconstructionism, think of French philosophers, Foucault, Derrida. That the author, for instance, the author, in order to understand what the author of a book or an article or anything is trying to convey, don't read what the author said.

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Read what the author didn't say, and then you'll know the author's intention.

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So in other words, read between the lines. We're going to deconstruct literature. We're not going to read

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Moby Dick like the story of a captain who's trying to harpoon a whale.

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No, no, no, no. There's more going on to the story. And we're going to deconstruct it to tell you what's really there.

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Now, that's kind of a philosophical concept. Today, the word deconstructionism is being used to deconstruct hierarchical systems.

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For instance, at Matt Chandler's church, the name of the lady,

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Jen Wilkins, said that we really need to deconstruct what's happening at seminaries and what's happening in, for instance, the

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Southern Baptist Convention, so that women can be empowered. Time out. When you say deconstruct, that has a secular meaning.

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And that meaning is tear down the current structure, because it is systemically racist and sexist, and it needs to be completely thwarted.

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So the word deconstruction needs to be understood as a philosophical term and as a term that is being used today by people.

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Chris, did you hear me? Pause right there for a second. You know what I just had to do? Well, you had to burp. Wow. Well, actually, that'll actually make this sound better.

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I actually am doing this in my car, and I forgot Georgia's a hands -free state, and somebody drove by me, and they just put their finger at me, and then a police officer was driving for me, and I had to put the phone down, so I didn't get hit on the phone by you!

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This would have been your fault! I got addicted for this. That would have made this interview,

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I think, infinitely even better. Hi, officer. Okay, I gotta tell you this.

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One time, I was speeding down Highway 35 West in St. Paul, Minnesota, and I was going way too fast.

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It's like a trainer highway. It's literally a freeway that's 45 mile an hour speed limit, because it goes through a town, so it's like, you know, for baby driving.

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And I was going, I don't know what, and I got pulled over, and the reading me the riot act.

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I mean, just angry at me. And it got to the point where it was almost like, sir, just give me the ticket, because the parading is killing me here.

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Just please let me go. And he looks down, and he sees a

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Bible in my front seat, and he said, uh, you read that book?

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He goes, all right, but on Sunday, make sure you put an extra 120 bucks in the collection plate, because that's what this would have cost you.

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And he walked away. Okay, so that's not the best part.

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Cut to several months later, I get pulled over again. And as the police officer is walking toward my car, listen to what a sinner

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I am. I went scrambling to find my Bible so I could put it on the front seat, and they just let me go.

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Isn't that just awful? Yes, it is. Okay, so that's deconstruction.

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If you really wanted to scare him away, you should have pulled a Kranhaus. Anyway, I'm sorry.

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So the term deconstruction, it's related to a number of terms that I'm sure you've got in front of you and that you've prepared.

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But for instance, critical race theory is an idea. It's a relatively new invention.

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Many law schools ought to teach this, because it's based on experience. They argue from experience.

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This is how I feel. This is what I've been through. Therefore, the entire system is racist.

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It's called critical race theory. And the idea is to deconstruct, therefore, the current system, which is dominated by white

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European males, or white supremacists, if you will. We need to deconstruct it.

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And the implication in all of this, Chris, is that if you are simply a white man, white woman, living the system, you might not have racist thoughts, ideas, or intentions.

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But simply by participating in a racist system, you're being racist, and you're perpetuating the racist attitude in our country to keep black people down.

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That's critical race theory. And that's being used as a part of an evangelical argument.

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I've heard that challenge so many times. I know some black people, they've been pulled over.

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We all agree that that's terrible. There are lawyers and doctors and taxpayers, and they get pulled over.

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See, the entire system is racist. And if you're white, you don't even know it, but you're racist.

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And you need to be woke so that you can get how racist you are. That's the ideology that's being perpetuated with an occasional

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Bible verse left on it. But it is thoroughly secular and really unbiblical.

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Yeah, sure. Sounds like it. Why don't you now explain intersectionality?

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Again, all of these terms, you kind of hear how and why they're so related to one another.

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Intersectionality, this is a term that was coined by a feminist professor who recognized and believed critical race theory, that American civilization, western culture, has been dominated by white males who have desired to do nothing but to keep women pregnant and in the kitchen, and black people poor and working on the farm.

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Therefore, to bring white men down, we need to raise other people up and create a new hierarchy.

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So here's how it works, Chris. If you're a white male, you have always been considered the top of the heap.

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If you are black male, well then you're considered less than the white male.

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If you're a black homosexual male, then you're below the black male who's below the white male.

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If you're a black homosexual who is transgendered, then you're even lower.

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These are intersections. Now here's what they want to do. Flip it. So the black, transsexual, homosexual male who's transgendered has the loudest voice because this person has the most intersections.

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Now, does that sound biblical to you? Not in any way, shape, or form. Not even America to you, that all men created equal?

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That this says, no no no no, there's other people that need to be heard louder than other people, and we're going to define who those people are.

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We do it via intersections. Do you hear the theme, the constant theme of tearing down, tearing down, deconstructing capitalism, government, representative republic, church structure, seminary, denomination?

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It's all got to come crashing down. Yeah, this is insane. Well, let us hear something about black liberation theology.

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Many of us have heard about liberation theology, especially in connection with the

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Roman Catholic Church, and even more specifically in South and Central America, perhaps, where there have been active priests and missionaries involved in basically bringing socialism and, dare

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I say, communism to different areas, and thinking that this is really the way Jesus would have our societies to operate.

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But if you could tell us specifically what you mean by black liberation theology. Well, it has some of those tenets, and one thing that I would say, before we dive into a definition,

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I've seen some folks writing about the social justice movement, folks, and saying, you're

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Marxist. And I just think that's a little sloppy. I don't believe, I have no reason to believe, that Khabibian Russel Moore and David Platt and Matt Chandler are card -carrying communists.

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But their ideologies are, and they're very similar.

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It's specifically Gramscian Marxism. It's not classic Karl Marx Marxism.

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This is Gramscian, an Italian philosopher, Antonio Gramsci, back in the early 1900s.

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This is, again, deconstructing everything, making everything equal in society.

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Men, women, gays, straights, rich, poor, everybody just all equal, with equal outcomes.

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So they're not being Marxist, but their ideas, they certainly reek of them.

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So with that in mind, liberation theology, the type that you described in South America, for instance, it shares some ideas with black liberation theology, which actually is a relatively recent invention from the 60s.

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James Cone is a fellow who was a theologian who tried to harmonize the teachings of Jesus Christ, Martin Luther King, and Malcolm X.

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Those three don't go together. And so he, in an effort to try to make everything work, determined, for instance, that the crucifixion of Jesus is not about that dreadful penal substitutionary atonement doctrine.

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Instead, it's the story of a man relating to oppressed people. Black liberation theology has some of these similar tenets of black people have been held down to white supremacy, and we need to be liberated.

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Think Barack Obama's president, we all know what he said, or pastor rather, we know what he said about America.

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Now that's black liberation theology. It is a desire to see black people rise up by the pulling down of white people.

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Wow. Well, you know, what's interesting about this is that for those that would claim to believe in the inerrancy of scripture, those that would claim to share a biblical orthodoxy with their, dare

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I say, adversaries or opponents on these issues, it is strange that they could overlook the fact that in the

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New Testament, those that are targeted through the God -breathed words of scripture, through the

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Apostle Paul, especially, those that are targeted or exposed as being racists, are

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Jews, primarily, who were a persecuted and enslaved and tortured and really attacked and what other adjectives

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I could use here and verbs. These were people that were on the lower rungs of society, and yet they are rebuked for being racist in their attitudes towards the

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Gentiles. They are not given some kind of privilege that they are not capable of being guilty of this sin just because they were among a persecuted and enslaved minority.

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They were exposed as being wicked in their attitudes.

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Do you have any comment as far as that's concerned? Oh, well, in the Bible, it helps us to navigate these choppy waters.

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Let's start with, what is racism? Why do we have it? Why does everybody have it?

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It's not a one -way street. You can be racist if you are the supposed oppressed class or if you're the poor.

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You can still have racist attitudes toward other people. And by the way, this is a universal trait.

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You'll find this in Japan. You'll find this in India. You'll find people going after each other because of skin color, because of gender, all over the globe.

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Why is that? And the answer is found in the book of Genesis, which

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I'm actually thinking about starting a ministry about the answers in Genesis because I think it's a pretty cool idea.

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We see an answer in Genesis right here that sin, the fall, is the cause of racism, and we've all got the propensity.

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So this is not a gospel issue. This is a sin issue, and it's the gospel that addresses and fixes it.

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And the gospel, we heard at MLK 50, which was, I have to confess, staggering to me because of the lifestyle and the theology of Martin Luther King, that we had a gospel convention to celebrate the life and legacy from the mountaintop.

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I just, I found it amazing. And yet, when people were there preaching and teaching, they were trying to say that this is a gospel issue.

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This is a gospel issue. I think Russell Moore probably said it eight or ten times. This is a gospel issue. No, it's not.

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It's not a gospel issue. Christology is a gospel issue. Justification, soteriology, those are gospel issues.

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This is a sin issue. Now, what is going to change sin? Is it a government program?

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Is it reparation? Is it national repentance? No, it's the gospel. And that's why

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I would plead with Tabiti, come back to the gospel. The gospel coalition has done the very thing that they were founded to not do and counter the gospel being abandoned.

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Let's get back to the gospel. And that's the message of the church to the world. You want to see racism go away?

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Repent and put your trust in Jesus Christ. Amen. By the way, one thing, one word or phrase

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I should say that we passed over, radical feminism. We all have an idea of what feminism is.

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Well, how radical do you have to be to be a radical feminist? Well, you know, if it's anything that's not biblical, it's radical.

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You know, in one sense, Jesus, if you will, if you want to use terms this loosely, he was pretty radical.

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Women were not treated well in Jewish society. They seemed to be treated better in the Old Testament, but by the time we got to the first century, women were not treated well and Jesus did radical things with them.

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They followed him. They weren't the inner circle, but they certainly thought they funded him. They anointed him.

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They were the first eyewitnesses to the resurrection, even when their testimony wasn't even welcomed in a courtroom.

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Jesus chose a woman. I mean, that's pretty staggering stuff, but you go beyond that and that's when it gets radical.

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So radical feminism, I'll define as, again, because we're looking at the similarities between all of these terms.

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They're all related and they're all in bed together, that this is a feminism. Men have kept women pregnant and just as sex objects for too long.

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Don't pay them. We need to overthrow males, bring males down, neuter males so that women can be, well, they might say equal, but frankly on top.

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All right. So this is to empower women to be in power positions.

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That's exactly what's happening right now with the Southern Baptist Convention. Conversation about Beth Boyle as the president of the

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Southern Baptist Convention. We've got to empower women, a secular term.

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The Christian term is we urge, we spur on, we encourage. Secularists say we empower, and that's what they're saying in the

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SBC, let's empower women in response to all of the oppression that Southern Baptist women have experienced and all of the sexism and misogyny that has occurred over the decades.

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Okay. That's just not the way to approach this biblically.

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We are grabbing onto secular ideologies that are humanist at the core, and we're importing them and bringing them into the church.

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So this is the plea, simply to abandon those words, those terms, those concepts, and let's start over by taking a look at what the

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Bible says about the role of women. Let's take a look at what the Bible says about the issue of racism.

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What do we do with a community of people that is really in a great, just a high percentage, struggling?

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Let's just lose all the worldly talk, and let's get back to a biblical conversation about racism and sexism.

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Amen. Well, I know that you could only be on with us for a half hour, and I am so looking forward to being with you at the

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G3 Conference, God willing, in January, and we'll be announcing in more detail how to find out about the

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G3 Conference and how to register for it. Anything in particular yet that you know you'll be speaking on at the

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G3 Conference? Yes, I do actually come to think of it.

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I do. Okay. It's about missions. It's going to be an encouragement for local churches to get into the open -air preaching game.

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Great. Well, the website for the G3 Conference coming up in January is g3conference .com,

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g3conference .com, and also the website for Wretched TV and Wretched Radio is wretched .org,

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wretched .org. Todd Friel, it's always a joy for you to be on the program. I look forward to your frequent return to Iron Sherpa's Arm Radio.

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Always appreciate your laugh. I always appreciate your earnestness for contending for the faith, so keep it up.

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Thanks a lot, brother, and I'm definitely looking forward to having a fellowship with you in Atlanta, Georgia, this January, God willing.

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And I'm not going to hang up and stop breaking the law, but actually, it's okay because, you know, we're no longer under the law.

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Yeah, I try to use that as much as I can. That goes with the officer in blue.

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Let's just see how they like that rationale. Well, God bless you, brother, and drive safely.

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All right, stay safe. And coming up, we are going to have, for the next hour,

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Christopher Harris. Many of you may remember my previous interview with Christopher Harris of Unhyphenated America.

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We're going to be talking about voter ID, illegal aliens, and the misplaced compassion of leftist

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America. And then our final half hour, we're going to have Joe Jackowitz of First Love Publications and First Love Radio join us.

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He's going to be giving us an update on Family Radio. And God willing, at some future date, and God willing in the near future, we're going to have the new president of Family Radio on Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio to give us an even more detailed update about what's going on at Family Radio.

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So if you have a question, by the way, for Christopher Harris of Unhyphenated America on voter ID, illegal aliens, and the misplaced compassion of leftist

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America, you can send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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Please always give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Don't go away.

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God willing, we'll be right back with Christopher Harris of Unhyphenated America. Iron Sherpa's Iron welcomes

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My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

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I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

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You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.

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They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

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.nyc. Have a great day. Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

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I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Welcome back, and we have joining us as our second guest today,

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Christopher Harris. He's a former congressional intern for long -serving U .S.

37:51

representative for 10 years, 10 terms, I should say. Joel Hefley from the

37:57

Colorado 5th District. He's a guest and co -host on numerous radio shows in the U .S.

38:02

and the U .K., including appearances as a guest and panelist on The Don Lemon Show, Tucker Carlson and Megyn Kelly Show, as well as appearing on the

38:14

Turkish Radio and Television Network and Executive Director of Unhyphenated America.

38:20

Today, Christopher Harris is going to be addressing Voter ID, Illegal Aliens, and the

38:26

Misplaced Compassion of Leftist America. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Christopher Harris.

38:34

My pleasure, Chris. Great to talk to you again. Yeah, it's my pleasure completely, as well as my listeners.

38:40

And why don't you let our listeners know, even though you were on the program before, they may be unfamiliar if they haven't heard you before, or just because of the time that's elapsed, they may not remember what

38:50

Unhyphenated America is. Tell our listeners about that. Well, I try to keep things simple.

38:56

And Unhyphenated America is exactly what we sound like. We're an organization that believes that America's best when it's unhyphenated.

39:03

That if you understand, if you believe in, if you embrace the principles of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, then you're an

39:11

American. And if there's no need for any prefix or suffix, you're just an American. Amen.

39:18

And, well, there is a battle going on, not only in America, or even globally, between opposing forces that disagree on, let's say,

39:34

President Trump's views on immigration, or even broader than that, even the diverse views amongst conservatives on immigration, because they're not all identical.

39:46

And not everyone who's a conservative agrees with everything that President Trump has to say, or to enforce.

39:53

But the issues of voter ID and illegal aliens are something that even brothers in Christ are disagreeing over.

40:03

What is it specifically to start out with about voter IDs that you wanted to bring up today during our broadcast?

40:11

Well, there was recently something that took place in Philadelphia, where a bunch of protesters stormed the city hall to protest the activity that Philadelphia itself has had taking, helping out with the

40:28

Department of Homeland Security and Immigration and Customs with deporting illegal aliens.

40:36

And the problem I have with that is, they're not actually going out there and just, like, rounding up anyone who looks like they might not be from America, whatever that looks like, because who knows what somebody looks like who's not from America, considering the fact that we have such a diverse landscape of ethnic groups?

40:56

No, what's happening is you have people who've already been arrested for committing some other crime, in addition to the fact that they violated our national sovereignty by the way they entered the

41:06

United States. But then once they arrived here, they committed some other crime, and that's what they were arrested for. And all that was happening was that local police, whether it was in Philadelphia or other municipalities, were assisting the

41:19

Immigration and Customs Enforcement to help round up the people once they have committed additional crimes and deport them.

41:29

And it's just ridiculous that now all of a sudden you have the mayor of Philadelphia deciding that they're not going to assist in that way anymore.

41:41

So it's just really, really, really sad that this is where we are, that in America we're not respecting our own national sovereignty.

41:54

Yeah, and as far as voter ID goes, there are a lot of leftists that want to enable people to vote without an

42:05

ID, and it seems to be fairly obvious it's because they want illegal aliens to vote.

42:12

And Tucker Carlson brought up something interesting recently, and I'm not saying this is the only time he said it, he has repeated it

42:18

I think a number of times, Tucker Carlson, whose program you have been on a number of times, he said that, and I'm paraphrasing what he said, but he was insinuating to his leftist guest that it is racist to assume that your average black citizen or other citizen of the

42:40

United States is incapable of getting some kind of an identification. He said, first of all, all legal citizens have identification, and that's how many people, in fact, how most people who are poor or in the welfare system are taking advantage of getting their finances from the government with their

43:02

ID. So isn't this really all about getting non -citizens to be permitted to vote?

43:10

Oh, absolutely, and I'll echo what Tucker had to say about the racism inherent to the idea, as a person of color, since some of your listeners might not know that I have a permanent tan, as a black man,

43:29

I'm highly insulted that people think that because you look like me that you're incapable of getting a license.

43:37

And the shame is, this has been going on for decades now, that they're sitting there going, oh, well,

43:45

I mean, because I don't even have my license near me, it's on my desk nightstand, but I think your license is good for, what, five or six years, whatever the time frame is.

43:55

So I just think it's asinine to say that you can't, at some point in time, go, you know, granted, the

44:04

DMV and wherever else you have to go locally to go get your license is ridiculously inefficient, but you're trying to tell me that someone like myself, who has a full -time job, who also runs a business, who also runs a media company,

44:19

I'm able to take time out of my day to go get my license renewed once ever, however many years.

44:26

But you're telling me that someone who is poor, as you're saying, as they're saying, they don't have time.

44:33

So I'm like, well, what are they doing with their time? Or if they're on welfare or whatever it is, that means that they're not working.

44:42

So if they're not working, they have time. You have nothing but time to go and get that license or go get that government -issued

44:49

ID. And so it's just a ridiculous argument that doesn't pass the Smith test, Chris.

44:55

I agree with you. And as far as illegal aliens are concerned, there are, as you likely know, there are

45:06

Christians who may even share much of our doctrine and theology.

45:12

They may not be even in the left wing of Protestantism or Catholicism.

45:20

They may be people who believe in the deity of Christ. They may believe in the

45:25

Trinity and the bodily resurrection of Christ and salvation by grace alone, through faith alone,

45:30

Christ alone, and the bodily resurrection. They may believe that homosexuality is a sin and abortion is murder, but they seem to think that it is sinful or unchristlike or uncompassionate or selfish or elitist or racist to not let anyone who wants to come across our borders just come and take advantage of the freedoms and liberties and blessings, economic and otherwise, that we have here in the

46:04

United States. They just think that if you are a Christian, if Jesus were alive, he would not want there to be border patrol.

46:12

He wouldn't want there to be borders. He would just want us to welcome everyone to cross those lines. Well, first of all,

46:18

I don't recall Jesus saying anything about having a country or a nation was a sin, because the very thing that makes a country and a nation separate from other countries and nations is that it has borders.

46:30

Isn't that exactly what makes a country unique and stand out from others surrounding countries and nations?

46:37

Well, without a doubt. And here's the interesting thing. When God, Yeshua, however you want to refer to him, the

46:47

Creator, when he had his chosen people, the people of Israel, the children of Israel, he specifically established, one, a border for the nation of Israel, and then within the

47:00

Israel, he made sure it was established that there were borders for the tribes of Israel.

47:10

And there were things that he made sure to say that you will stay within your particular tribe.

47:16

Well, for example, and I'm drawing a blank on a particular chapter and verse, but for example, there was an issue where you had women who were basically without their fathers, without their husbands, and there were no boys, and so they were in danger of losing the land, because the typical reading of the law was that the land would only pass through the paternal line.

47:42

But these women were saying, hey, well, guess what? We don't have a paternal line that we can look to, but our father owned this land.

47:51

So if we can't keep the land and farm the land, then we become destitute, and we end up having to rely on other people.

47:59

So the ruling was, well, no, the land will stay with you through your bloodline, but you will make sure that when you do marry, you marry someone from within your tribe, not from another tribe.

48:09

And so here it is, there's constant talk of borders. Constant talk of borders throughout the

48:15

Bible, you know, and even when it talks about the number of nations, when God said that, when the

48:22

Word says that all these nations were formed, I mean, a nation is a group of people that are unified by a particular border, right, by a particular language, by a particular culture.

48:36

These are the things that make up a nation. And if you don't have those, if you don't protect those, your nation disappears.

48:44

But we can go back, and I know where people are coming from, from a biblical standpoint, uh, when they're talking about, oh, we should show love to the foreigner.

48:52

Well, yes. I mean, in Leviticus 19, it talks about that, you know, that you should not, that whenever a stranger or sojourns with you in your land, you should not do them wrong.

49:02

There is, you know, Exodus talks about not oppressing the sojourner, that Deuteronomy, all those

49:10

Old Testament verses and scriptures, talk about that because it was to remind the children of Israel that you were a foreigner at once.

49:22

But, you know, Hebrews talks about, do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unaware.

49:30

Here's the thing. It also goes on to say in Leviticus, excuse me,

49:36

Leviticus 24, my tongue's a little tired, that you shall have the same rule for the sojourner and for the native.

49:43

Okay, you know, for I am the Lord your God. That is the issue, that's one of the issues we're talking about, isn't it,

49:50

Chris, is that what you have is you have people who are not from this country who are actually asking for extra privileges.

50:02

And you have people who are from this, who are from this country, who are asking for special privileges for those who are not from here.

50:11

So we have certain beliefs. See, the danger was, and the danger always was and continues to be, that when you let foreigners come into your country, and then they start practicing their belief system within your country, they will start to influence the culture of your country.

50:33

That is always the danger, and when we know most these people came from leftist, regressive, socialist -minded countries, that their ideology, their culture is entirely different from ours, and the left is telling them that they don't have to assimilate, that they can keep their culture.

50:53

And the problem is the culture they had is the reason why their nation has failed. So that is the danger that we have.

51:01

We are a nation of citizens who come from all over the world, and you become a citizen, you become a true

51:08

American when you drop the hyphen, when you decide to embrace our culture, the core beliefs that we have of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

51:17

Or as Dennis Prager talks about, the American trinity of, you know, in God we trust, liberty, and out of many, one.

51:25

You know, you purpose to them. The left does not encourage that. Well, at least it's good to know that Dennis Prager believes in one trinity anyway.

51:33

Yeah, exactly. But, in fact, I have a book that I strongly urge you to read.

51:41

In fact, I'm going to make sure that I mail it to you eventually, hopefully soon, when I get a hold of an extra copy of it.

51:47

Yearning to Breathe Free, Thoughts on Immigration, Islam, and Freedom by David Dykstra, who's a personal friend of mine.

51:54

He's a Reformed Baptist pastor, and he wrote this book that is really superb, and it goes into the different types of foreigners that were crossing the borders into Israel in the

52:09

Old Covenant, and how each of these different types of foreigners were to be treated, and some were indeed to be welcomed, but not all were to be welcomed.

52:20

And this was according to the God -breathed scriptures of the Old Covenant, and David Dykstra is not saying that we need to introduce everything from the

52:31

Old Testament into the New, but he is saying that there are certain things that demonstrate great wisdom that there is no forbidding in the

52:43

New Covenant to imitate, if you're establishing a nation and so on. So, I will try to get that to you, because I think that you will be quite impressed with David Dykstra's research in that.

52:55

Oh, absolutely, and you have to go back and talk about the fact that the expectation is that you will assimilate.

53:07

I mean, they made it absolutely clear in the Old Testament, and here's the thing, Christ made it clear that he did not come to change the law, but to fulfill the law.

53:18

So that's one of those things, there's a lot of people who are Christians who actually are biblically ignorant.

53:25

You know, that they've made no effort themselves to actually study the Bible, and so I call them hippie

53:32

Christians. You know, they believe that all Christ did was, you know, wander around in a robe and sandals and long hair, you know, the

53:42

Jesus Christ superstar kind of imagery, and all he did was wander around going, peace, dude, peace, man, just peace, dude, you know, like, at any moment you expect him to pass a marijuana joint to you.

53:57

That's their idea of who Christ is, and I always say is, because Christ is alive and living, you know, and so it's kind of sad that people miss this, but you know, as Paul talked about, there's neither

54:12

Jew nor Gentile. In fact, Christopher, we have to go to a break right now, but could you pick up when we return on the hippie

54:20

Jesus, the false Jesus of greeting cards and major motion pictures and the mindsets of many people.

54:28

We'll pick up on that when we return from our break. This is a little longer than normal break, because Grace Life Radio and 90 .1

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FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show, because they air their own commercials and public service announcements, so please be patient as we take this longer break.

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Use this time to write down questions for Christopher Harris. Also use this time to write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can successfully patronize them.

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When you mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. Before we return to Christopher Harris, we just have a couple of announcements to make as far as upcoming special events.

01:06:20

The Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is having their annual Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology November 9th and the 10th at the

01:06:29

Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania. The theme is The Glory of the Cross. The speakers include

01:06:34

David Garner, Ray Ortland, Richard Phillips, Timothy Gibson, and Carlton Nguyen. That's November 9th and the 10th at Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania.

01:06:43

If you want to register, go to alliancenet .org, alliancenet .org, click on events, and then click on Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology.

01:06:52

And I intend to be there with an exhibitor's booth for Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. Then coming up in January, this coming

01:07:00

January from Thursday the 17th through Saturday the 19th, the G3 Conference returns to Atlanta, Georgia.

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I will be there for my third year in a row manning an exhibitor's booth for Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, and they are expecting between 4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people there.

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In fact, I'm encouraging my guest Christopher Harris to have an unhyphenated

01:07:25

America booth there so that he can promote that organization to the 4 ,000 to 5 ,000 people milling around at the

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G3 Conference. The G3 Conference stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory, and the theme this year is the biblical, or should

01:07:40

I say the mission of God, a biblical understanding of missions. And they are having a Spanish -speaking edition of the event on Wednesday, January 16th, so tell your

01:07:50

Spanish -speaking and bilingual friends about that event as well. But the

01:07:55

English -speaking event from Thursday the 17th of January through Saturday the 19th of January includes on the roster

01:08:02

John Piper, Stephen Lawson, Votie Balcombe, Conrad Mbewe, my favorite of all preachers on the planet

01:08:09

Earth, the pastor of Kibwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa. If you have not heard Conrad Mbewe preach, you've got to take a train, plane, or automobile to get to wherever he is preaching to hear him because he is truly a modern -day phenomenon.

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He is truly a powerfully gifted man of God. Tim Challies is speaking there.

01:08:29

Phil Johnson, the executive director of John MacArthur's ministry, grace to you. Todd Freel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, who is our first guest today.

01:08:38

Stephen Nichols, the president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late

01:08:43

Dr. R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, and many more are on that roster.

01:08:49

So if you'd like to register for the G3 Conference, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com,

01:08:56

and then you'll find out everything you need to know to not only register as an attendee, but I urge you that if you have a business or parachurch organization that you want to promote amongst that crowd of between four and five thousand people, register for an exhibitor's booth as well.

01:09:12

And I hope that your exhibitor's booth is near mine, where I intend to be this January at the

01:09:18

G3 Conference. So God willing, I'll see you there. And I got one more thing to ask you.

01:09:24

If you love the show, you don't want it to go away, please donate to Iron Truppens Iron Radio. Go to irontruppensironradio .com,

01:09:30

click support, then click click to donate now. Donate as much as you can and as often as you can, as long as you're not siphoning money away from your regular giving to your local church where you are a member.

01:09:41

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01:09:48

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01:09:53

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01:10:02

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01:10:24

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01:10:31

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01:10:41

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01:10:56

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01:11:02

and put advertising in the subject line. And that's also the email address where you could send in a question to Christopher Harris of Unhyphenated America.

01:11:10

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

01:11:15

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

01:11:23

Christopher, we were before the break, you were speaking about the fictitious hippie Jesus. Yeah, yeah.

01:11:31

This is something I've seen and heard a lot from people. Their idea, and they say, well, you know,

01:11:41

Jesus was just about love. And I'm like, well, yes and no.

01:11:47

I mean, at the end of the day, well, yes he was, but not in the way that your rather childish and immature view is.

01:11:57

Most people have this childish view that if you love me, you'll let me say and do any and everything

01:12:04

I want to do. And so it's like a child who, you know, you've ever heard of those stories about like, you know, mom or dad says, okay, it's time to go to bed or it's time for you to eat your vegetables or whatever.

01:12:17

And the child has a hissy fit and starts screaming and crying and they say, I hate you, right? Because you're doing your job as a parent and loving them enough to tell them right from wrong.

01:12:29

And you know what? Sometimes as a loving parent, you have to love them enough that you have to punish them, to chastise them, sometimes with corporal punishment.

01:12:40

And you know, the word makes it clear that God chastens those who he loves. But if you're a leftist, you're looking at things, you believe that all

01:12:50

Christ did, once again, was wander around in the desert or in the land of Israel and all that, just saying peace and love to everybody and, you know, just never saying a cross word to someone, never offending because, you know, we live in a world nowadays where, oh my

01:13:06

God, you're not allowed to offend anyone. I mean, if you say something that can even be remotely perceived as being offensive, then, you know, you're wrong.

01:13:15

I mean, you can't possibly be a good Christian because you said something that I found to be offensive.

01:13:21

That's the world we live in. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that people have never been taught sound biblical teaching.

01:13:28

And of course, they've never bothered to read the Bible for themselves. So that's where we're coming from.

01:13:35

You have to understand God's full character was there in the person of Jesus Christ, which means

01:13:42

God's wrath was also there in the person of Jesus Christ. We have a listener from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, CJ.

01:13:55

And CJ says, I'm curious what your opinion is from a black

01:14:00

Christian. The reason why I happen to add your skin color is that today in the 21st century, it appears that anything coming out of a white man or white woman's mouth, but especially a white man's mouth is viewed with suspicion because the motive, of course, must be racism or hatred.

01:14:18

But I'm asking you as a black brother in Christ, do you believe that the leftists in America would be responding to Muslims immigrating to the

01:14:30

United States and illegally entering the United States with the same passivity and welcoming open arms if the majority of Muslims were blonde -haired, blue -eyed, and pale -skinned?

01:14:46

I personally believe that the left would be welcoming of anyone coming into America who essentially hates

01:14:53

America. The answer is what it is, is that for them, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

01:15:01

And so regardless of where you come from, if you hate America, because the left is so anti -Biblical, it's antithetical to a

01:15:12

Biblical Christian belief. Because for example, we can go back to the

01:15:17

Tower of Babel on the plains of modern -day Iraq, right? And we know that man disobeyed

01:15:25

God's direct order coming out of the ark to go forth and populate the earth.

01:15:31

But what do we do? We try to stick together there on the plains of modern -day

01:15:40

Iraq. And we built one great nation. We had a king. We had essentially one world government.

01:15:48

And what happened when we had one world government? It didn't go in dust, but there was a certain amount of tyranny, and there was actually a certain amount of turning away from God that obviously took place.

01:15:59

And so you had the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit saying, hey, let us go down there and confuse their language, because it seems like you guys can't pull your heads out of your posteriors and go do what

01:16:11

I told you to do. So let me help you out by confusing your language and see what the left believes in is a one world government.

01:16:21

They don't believe in borders. They believe in a one world government. And there's a reason. If God made sure that there would be separate nations, then who are you to try to have a one world government?

01:16:36

It's just that simple. When you're reading the Bible, it makes it clear there are things in the

01:16:43

Bible that are reporting what happened. And then there are things in the

01:16:55

Bible that are reporting what happened between the two. They're like, oh, well, there's slavery in the Bible. Okay, well, yes, slavery took place in the

01:17:01

Bible, but God never said, go enslave your fellow man. So it's one of those things, if you don't understand the word, you don't understand the difference between the two.

01:17:11

And then the slavery that took place in the Bible was not at all about the color of people's skin.

01:17:20

Not at all. I mean, you had indentured servitude, you had prisoners of war, and all kinds of reasons that had nothing to do with kidnapping people from foreign soil or buying them from those that kidnapped them and then bringing them back to another land to sell them and enslave them.

01:17:39

In fact, kidnapping and selling a man in the old covenant was a crime punishable by death.

01:17:46

Exactly. I was just about to mention that. I mean, that was, I believe that was the, gosh,

01:17:53

I'm trying to remember the first thing, it was Exodus 21 -16. Whoever steals a man and sells him and anyone found in possession, that's punishable by death.

01:18:04

And so that is one of those things where there were people, even those who were among the settlers of the

01:18:12

United States, the founders in the United States, who were in violation of God's law, which the abolitionists, which many, most of the founders and the framers of the

01:18:23

Constitution and the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were abolitionists. And that's a whole other story that people won't get into.

01:18:31

And so that, our foundational documents affirmed natural law, right?

01:18:38

And so it did not, our foundational documents do not give us rights. They affirm the rights that were already present as a result of our creator knowing us and our mother's womb and bestowing those certain unalienable rights upon us before we even came out of the womb, because you have a unique DNA signature that was formed at the moment your father's sperm went to your mother's egg, you were you at the earliest stage of human development.

01:19:04

And no one else, we didn't know that until recently with, of course, DNA. Now we understand

01:19:11

DNA and everything, but God knows us by our DNA. Our DNA looks to him as clear as me looking at your face.

01:19:21

But anyway, to kind of further answer the question that went all the way around the world, but to further answer your question, yes, the left, they would be fully supportive of people coming from outside of this country, in the

01:19:33

United States, if they were here to be detrimental to this nation, because the left hates, they don't care whether they don't care whether they ultimately also suffer as a result of bringing in foreigners who have every intention to undermine our nation.

01:19:51

They just hate, quite frankly, those of us who are on this radio program right now, because they don't believe in personal freedom, or the freedom that comes through Christ.

01:20:02

The thing that is interesting, though, about our listeners' question, when it relates specifically to Muslims, even if you want to remove the immigration or illegal entering into the

01:20:18

United States from the equation, Muslims, if they are living under Sharia law, the first ones among us that would most likely be executed are our liberal and leftist friends and neighbors.

01:20:33

It seems ironic and bizarre that they would be so in favor of Muslim freedom.

01:20:41

And of course, I'm not saying that all Muslims or even most Muslims want to seek bodily harm to American citizens or to Christians, Jews and others.

01:20:53

There is obviously a very strong element numerically within them that does.

01:20:59

But it seems odd that the leftists who are pro -homosexual and pro -abortion and pro -fornication and pro -many other things that Muslims view as crimes punishable by death, it's very bizarre that they look at them with such welcoming attitudes.

01:21:23

And you can't help but wonder that if they were predominantly Germanic or Scandinavian, if they would have that same attitude towards them.

01:21:32

That's just a theory. But you just have to wonder.

01:21:39

Well, I don't believe that they actually think. There's a quote from Thomas Sowell.

01:21:51

The problem isn't that Johnny can't read. The problem isn't that Johnny can't think.

01:21:56

The problem is that Johnny doesn't know what thinking is. He confuses feeling with thinking.

01:22:02

And that's what it is, that the left live in their feelings. They're controlled by their emotions. And they quite frankly haven't studied the very clear, very documented realities of the history of human nature and human behavior enough to be able to say, you know, look at everywhere in the world where a different particular people group has been, or look at everywhere in the world where a particular political ideology has been implied, and it's been not only an abject failure, but a horrific, tragic failure that people have suffered by the tens of thousands and sometimes millions of people have suffered as a result of this.

01:22:42

But the left, you know, as my mom would always say, they don't believe that fat meat is greasy. They have to put their hand in the fire themselves because they don't believe what you've told them that the fire will burn you.

01:23:02

Even though you should be able to feel the intense heat, you only have to put your hand completely in the fire.

01:23:07

You can feel the heat coming off. And common sense would say, I feel the heat from five feet away, so it's probably not a good idea for me to put my hand actually in the fire.

01:23:17

Well, the left will go ahead and put their hand in the fire, and they'll suffer the consequences, because that's the laws of nature and nature's

01:23:23

God. Yeah, well, one of the major aspects, and since we only have six minutes left, I want to make sure we get to it.

01:23:29

One of the major aspects I wanted to discuss with you about this is the misplaced compassion of the left.

01:23:36

Now, you might believe, you might even have totally convinced yourself that having no borders or loose borders and letting illegal aliens come and go as they wish into our nation, especially come into our nation as they wish, is the compassionate, kind, humble, selfless, sacrificial, and giving thing to do, and even

01:24:02

Christ -like thing to do. But you seem to be forgetting about the other poor among us that will be most harmed by that.

01:24:10

It's mainly the poor that are harmed by other poor people that are not even citizens coming across our borders and taking jobs away from other poor people.

01:24:21

I mean, the left, in the name of being the champions of the underdog, the poor, the downtrodden, the persecuted, and so on, they are always, it seems, in the back door harming the very people they claim to defend.

01:24:39

Even when it comes to their environmental positions, when they are trying to protect forests, for instance, more than they care about human life, they are putting people out of work.

01:24:51

They are putting people who are involved in lumber mills and all kinds of things. I mean, you could go on and on and on.

01:24:57

I mean, the closing down of coal mines and the opposition to fracking, you could go on and on and on, and you have poor to middle -class

01:25:06

Americans losing livelihoods through the leftists so -called championing the very people that they wound up punishing.

01:25:14

Am I right on this? Oh, absolutely true. And the shame is, black people suffer the most as a result of vast numbers of illegal aliens.

01:25:24

And I always make sure I use the correct legal term, which is illegal aliens. To be an immigrant is in and of itself a legal term.

01:25:33

That means you actually went through legal means. And I've seen people say stuff like, well, Jesus was a refugee or an alien.

01:25:42

It's like, okay, well, but he wasn't there illegally because they didn't have laws against.

01:25:49

When his family went to Egypt, well, they didn't have laws against you entering the nation.

01:25:56

And that's a whole other thing. I mean, it's like people try to make these arguments without having a full grasp on the facts.

01:26:03

But yes, black people in general suffer the most as a result of this. And then the shame is, black people, or in this case,

01:26:11

I tend to differentiate because everyone who happens to have a deep or permanent tan is not from the same culture.

01:26:17

And that's a discussion for another time. I refer to myself as an American black man. My family's been in the

01:26:23

United States since at least 1813. And if you drill back further, because my three -time great -grandfather was the prodigy of a white slave owner and an

01:26:36

African woman. And so from a paternal line, my family's been in the United States since before there was

01:26:42

United States in 1620, when my paternal line came in. That's longer than my family.

01:26:47

Longer than mine. My mother's Polish family came over here in the early 1900s, and my father's Norwegian ancestors came here in the 1860s.

01:26:55

So your family has been here longer than mine. Well, exactly. But here's the thing. It's a cultural thing.

01:27:00

Once again, it's just like the fact that there's neither Jew nor Gentile. When you become a believer, when you accept

01:27:07

Christ into your life, there's neither Jew nor Gentile. When you become a believer in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, there's no

01:27:16

African American, there's no Hispanic American. You're simply an American. And that is the thing is that it doesn't matter.

01:27:26

We can have open borders, relatively open borders. I mean, of course, you still need to protect your borders.

01:27:31

But you can have relatively open immigration, as long as there's the expectation that people will assimilate, and also as long as there's no social welfare state.

01:27:42

You cannot have wide open borders and social welfare. That's just stupid.

01:27:48

I mean, that's literally like poking holes in your ship of state that's out in the middle of the ocean.

01:27:56

I mean, you might as well be bringing termites and woodpeckers into your wooden sailing ship out in the middle of the

01:28:03

Pacific Ocean. You're going to think they're going to undermine the structural integrity of the ship. And so that's one of the things that people just don't seem to grasp, is that I have no problem with anyone from any other ethnic background coming to the

01:28:17

United States, as long as they're willing to accept our core belief systems.

01:28:22

You can be a Muslim and come to the United States. But here's the question. Are you going to let your Muslim beliefs supersede the core philosophy of the

01:28:30

United States? If that's the case, then you should not be here. You should go to whatever other country that most closely resembles or connects with your core beliefs.

01:28:40

But if you want to call yourself a Muslim, but be accepting of our core beliefs, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, believing in God, et permis unum, and liberty, then you can be an

01:28:54

American. And that's just one of those things, Chris, that has to be taught that's not being taught in civics, or civics hasn't even been taught.

01:29:02

And that's a whole other issue. Well, we are out of time. I know that you had to leave after a one -hour period.

01:29:08

So I just want to make sure our listeners have your website. It's unhyphenatedamerica .org, unhyphenatedamerica .org.

01:29:16

We have a listener in Slovenia, Joe, that has emailed us a question for you all. We'll have to just email that to you.

01:29:22

And you two can privately communicate whenever you have time to, because we have run out of time for this interview.

01:29:27

We look forward to having you back very often on to Iron Trip and Zion Radio. Christopher Harris. Thank you.

01:29:33

My pleasure. Thank you for listening. Well, God bless you. And coming up next, we have

01:29:39

Joe Jackowitz, who is the founder and director of First Love Publishing, First Love Missions, and First Love Radio, the radio network that live streams

01:29:50

Iron Trip and Zion Radio. He's going to be giving us an update on family radio.

01:29:56

So please don't go away. We're going to be back after these messages with Joe Jackowitz. Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Trip and Zion Radio here.

01:30:08

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

01:30:14

Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

01:30:20

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently, he wrote a book titled Consider the

01:30:26

Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword. Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

01:30:34

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states. He represents many

01:30:40

Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

01:30:46

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10 different states.

01:30:59

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history. In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the

01:31:09

Law Journal. If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state,

01:31:16

I recommend that you call Dan. Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win.

01:31:23

Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878, 1 -800 -669 -4878, or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:31:37

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. My name is

01:31:44

Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

01:31:50

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

01:31:56

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

01:32:02

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

01:32:09

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.

01:32:17

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

01:32:23

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

01:32:33

New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

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That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And keep praying for Mike Gaydos, the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books.

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He has just told me today that his heart surgery is scheduled for August 31st in Gainesville, Florida.

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Please pray for him because this is very delicate, very dangerous, very complicated open -heart surgery.

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But he is very, Mike Gaydos is very comfortable and confident and delighted in the surgeon who will be performing the operation.

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So please pray for Mike that we hear great news from him soon after the surgery that he raises up from that hospital bed stronger and healthier physically than he ever has been in years.

01:37:03

And also, even more importantly, stronger and healthier spiritually as a result of this trial.

01:37:09

We are now being joined by my friend, Pastor Joe Jackowitz. Pastor Joe Jackowitz is founder and president of First Love Radio, whose ad you just heard.

01:37:21

In addition to First Love Publications and First Love Missions, he is one of two pastors at Christ Bible Church in Dublin, California.

01:37:29

And we are going to be providing you today with an update on Family Radio, where he was once employed.

01:37:35

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Joe Jackowitz. Good to be with you,

01:37:41

Chris. Well, before we go into a brief history of Family Radio, if you could briefly give us a history and a description of First Love Radio.

01:37:50

First Love Radio began about seven months ago. So we're brand new.

01:37:56

We're an online global radio station. We reach everywhere where there are people tuning in online, live streaming, and we've got 24 -hour a day, seven -day -a -week programming based primarily on the teaching of God's Word.

01:38:13

We've got a variety of genres we offer, not only preaching, expository preaching, but about six or seven different preaching programs.

01:38:24

We've also got unshackled and many other types of programming, music, but the predominant amount of our programming focuses on the

01:38:36

Word of God, whether it be preaching or teaching, because it's the Word of God that changes lives. And we're almost full up in our playlist, which is our programming schedule.

01:38:47

We do have some repeats, but we are coming into contact with some real quality pastors and teachers who are being added to our 24 -hour programming on a weekly basis.

01:39:04

And so we hope to be able to feed the world with the milk of the Word and the meat of the

01:39:09

Word with some really good doctrinal teaching as well as application to provide a balance of truth in these last days of apostasy, where the

01:39:22

Word of God and the preaching of the Word and the belief of God's Word has fallen upon hard times.

01:39:29

And firstloveradio .org is the website? That's correct. And why don't you tell us a little bit about First Love Publications and First Love Missions.

01:39:40

First Love Publications was founded in 2006. We have 51 publications in five different categories, doctrinal, devotional, evangelistic, pastoral, and that's four, right?

01:40:00

And one more category, and we have a website, firstlovepublications .org,

01:40:09

and all five categories of publications can be found there. And we distribute them free of charge.

01:40:16

The Lord provides for us. And you can go to firstlovepublications .org and you can peruse our catalog.

01:40:23

We have 51 titles. We began with one, like I said, in 2006, and we're adding new titles.

01:40:31

And we've got a number of them at the printer right now. But we are a faith mission, a faith ministry, where we do not charge people for our publications.

01:40:41

We have about eight or nine different tracks that believers can use in their evangelistic outreach.

01:40:49

We've got some really good doctrinally oriented books. We have basically a systematic theology called the

01:40:56

Catechism on Bible Doctrine. And we've got a really good book that's being printed right now called

01:41:04

An Introduction to Hermeneutics. It's the best book on how to interpret the Bible that I've ever seen.

01:41:10

We haven't printed it yet, but it's in the process. It's in the works. Check back with us in a few months if you've ever wanted to know how to accurately translate and interpret the scriptures.

01:41:21

You want to get a copy of this book. There are a number of books on the topic of Bible interpretation and hermeneutics, but this is the most comprehensive one you'll ever find.

01:41:33

450 pages in a paperback. And that's coming up in a couple months. Who's the author? It's a personal friend of you and me,

01:41:41

Dr. W .R. Downing. Oh, wow. I love Dr. Downing, and I want him back in the program. For some reason, the last few times

01:41:47

I invited him back on, our schedules did not match. But he is one of my favorite interviewees, one of my favorite guests, is a better way of putting it, that I've ever had.

01:42:00

I just love Dr. Downing. Indeed. So, you can go to our website and check out our history, our beliefs, and we take our publications and distribute them all around the world during our

01:42:12

Missions trip, which is sponsored by our organization, First Love Missions, which was founded last

01:42:19

August, so about a year ago, and launched in Kentucky at one of our sister churches, Sovereign Grace Baptist Church.

01:42:27

First Love Missions has a team of about 13, 14 missionaries. We go on short -term mission trips every three or four months to different countries.

01:42:37

Right now, we have missionaries in four countries. We're ministering through in Nigeria, in India, in Nepal, and in the

01:42:48

Philippines. And our fifth country, our first trip is coming up to Kenya, to Nairobi in February, and then we're making plans to go to Slovenia, that Eastern European country next to Czechoslovakia.

01:43:03

Oh, really? Well, Joe in Slovenia should be thrilled about that. Joe is just listening now, at least he was listening when my last guest was just on.

01:43:13

He sent in a question that we didn't have time to ask my guest. But Joe in Slovenia, he is a

01:43:18

Southern Baptist missionary there, and I'm sure he will be thrilled to hook up with you while you're there. Yes, we will indeed hook up.

01:43:24

He is our sponsor, actually, and he's... Oh, really? We're good friends with Joe Kelly.

01:43:30

Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, it's the small world, Chris. Yeah, it is. Small world, big God. Amen.

01:43:38

So, that's the synopsis of First Love Publications and First Love Missions and First Love Radio.

01:43:44

Great. Well, now let's hear a little history of Family Radio. I'm actually surprised.

01:43:50

I guess it's been longer than I thought it was that Family Radio unfortunately entered into a dark time due to apostasy, because I meet a lot of young Christians, especially when

01:44:03

I say young, I'm talking about in their 30s or younger, who don't even know what I'm talking about when

01:44:08

I mention Family Radio. And I'm shocked, because they were such a globally known presence, and at one time such a phenomenally biblically sound presence and powerhouse for the doctrines of sovereign grace on the planet

01:44:22

Earth. So, tell us about the history of Family Radio and your involvement with them and so on.

01:44:28

Well, Family Radio really spearheaded the evangelical church, in my view anyway, arguably in taking the leadership since 1959 in broadcasting quality programs throughout the

01:44:44

United States. And like you said, there was a traumatic, radical time around the year 2000 that caused many, many people to tune out and turn off Family Radio, which we could talk about later.

01:45:02

But I began with Family Radio in 1984 and was with them for almost 20 years until I resigned in 2002 because of doctrinal disagreements with the president of Family Radio, Harold Camping, at the time.

01:45:18

But Family Radio is a completely different ministry today and is moving in a real positive direction.

01:45:26

Back in 1959, Harold Camping started with one or two others,

01:45:31

Family Radio. They bought a radio station in San Francisco called KEAR, and he was a construction company owner, a graduate of UC Berkeley in engineering.

01:45:44

He really wasn't a theologian, and I think that's what got him into some trouble, is he went off the mainstream of Bible interpretation and theological exposition.

01:45:57

But he started Family Radio, and the ministry grew steadily through the 60s and the 70s.

01:46:04

They kept adding station after station, WFME in the New York City, New Jersey area,

01:46:10

WFSI in Maryland, Washington, D .C. They had stations in major cities across the nation.

01:46:16

Those are regular stations. They also had many translator stations, which is like a mini -station.

01:46:22

Even up until today, they still have 51 major radio stations throughout the

01:46:30

United States and over or about 100 translator stations. They're online.

01:46:35

They have a powerhouse website that live -streams all around the world, their radio ministry.

01:46:42

They are still a force to deal with, but they fell upon hard times. Beginning, I believe, in 1992, when

01:46:52

Harold Camping published a very controversial book, Harold Camping still the president of Family Radio at that time, titled 1994, question mark.

01:47:03

In that book, he predicted the second coming of Jesus Christ to take place,

01:47:10

I think, in October 1994. I guess you could call him a date -setter.

01:47:16

That's what initially got him into trouble with many in his listening audience who considered themselves conservative evangelical

01:47:23

Christians. That book started to slowly cause many listeners to drop out and tune out.

01:47:33

Of course, Christ did not come in October of 1994.

01:47:39

He subsequently revised his dates, his predictions of the second coming several more times in the following 10 years.

01:47:50

Then in 2002, he unveiled and rolled out his most controversial teaching to date, which is called the depart out teaching, which he believed

01:48:03

God wanted all believers to leave their churches based on his view that the church age ended in 1988.

01:48:12

Therefore, since the church is no longer valid, God wanted, he believes, the church to come completely out of the picture, just to completely end.

01:48:26

He called for believers on his powerful open forum radio program.

01:48:32

He called for believers to depart out of the churches, to leave their churches. He believed the church was destroyed.

01:48:38

Satan occupied the churches he taught. The offices of pastor and deacon and the ordinances of baptism and the

01:48:45

Lord's Supper were to no longer be observed. He really became an enemy of the church in that sense, although in his own mind he didn't see it that way.

01:48:55

That turned pretty much the entirety of the evangelical churches against harold camping and word quickly spread among members and believers everywhere, don't listen to family radio.

01:49:08

That occurred in 2002. Family radio has been struggling in a sense ever since.

01:49:14

That's when I left family radio. I resigned in 2002 because of that teaching.

01:49:21

I started out with them in 1984 as an instructor in their school of the bible, which they also closed down.

01:49:31

I worked in various positions with family radio. The last one was as a prayer time pastor on the air for 13 or 14 years.

01:49:41

I knew all of the managers and the announcers and was considered somewhat of an insider.

01:49:49

I was only one of two or three pastors that actually worked as an employee of family radios during their entire history.

01:49:58

I remained friends with some of the folks there and to this day still am friends with a number of them.

01:50:09

So that's pretty much a brief history of family radio. Well, I know that you have some exciting news about the current president who wants to be on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

01:50:18

Tell us about that. It's a strong possibility. Tom Evans has been the president of family radio for about seven or eight years.

01:50:27

I've known Tom for over 30 years and I met with Tom a couple of times within the last several months.

01:50:35

I was so blessed and pleasantly surprised to hear about some changes and decisions that have been made about the future direction and the present position and policy of family radio, which most people don't know.

01:50:51

I wish all of the people who left family radio and went elsewhere for their teaching and Christian radio would know about this right now.

01:51:01

I am so blessed. The people who left family radio because of Harold Camping's heresies, his depart -out teaching, his belief that there is no devil,

01:51:12

Camping's teaching of annihilationism, that is, upon death the soul is destroyed.

01:51:18

You actually just informed me of something that I didn't know because I didn't believe in a personal devil.

01:51:25

The reason why I find that remarkable is that I know someone who used to be a family radio speaker who was kicked off of family radio for believing in the very thing that you just said.

01:51:38

Yes. I think the worst teaching that Camping espoused is that Christ died twice for the sins of the world.

01:51:45

It's a long story, but the biggest problem with family radio, in my view, was really not most of the teachers or the employees, but Harold Camping's wrong hermeneutic.

01:51:57

That is, he approaches Bible study through an allegorical interpretation.

01:52:03

He spiritualizes so much that has no justification in the teaching of Scripture.

01:52:10

Many people at family radio did not embrace that teaching. They quietly just went in and served.

01:52:16

That was, I think, Mr. Camping's biggest problem. James White wrote a book addressing that very issue that Harold Camping stumbled over, which caused,

01:52:27

I think, the downfall of the entire ministry. Yes, that was Dangerous Airwaves, and I don't know if you knew it,

01:52:32

Joe, but I gave that book the title and I also did the cover artwork for that book. Did you really? Wow, you have a great distinction then.

01:52:40

But First Love Publications is in the process of printing a book that addresses that very issue, because if hermeneutics goes out the window, if we don't interpret the

01:52:52

Bible properly, then everything else on top of that and after that, like our theology and our church life and our beliefs and our practice, goes out the window as well.

01:53:02

So everything depends upon proper Bible interpretation, and First Love Publications is getting ready to print this tome, this enormously important book written by Dr.

01:53:15

Downing. But all of the folks that left family radio because of these teachings, these heresies, for lack of a better word, that Mr.

01:53:24

Camping espoused, if they only knew what family radio holds now, their present policy is that they have rejected these teachings.

01:53:36

They no longer support, believe, and teach the Depart Out beliefs, the end of the church age, the annihilation of the soul, that Christ died twice, and that there is no devil.

01:53:49

They reject all of those teachings, and Tom assured me, and I know

01:53:55

Tom Evans for a long time, and I have no reason to doubt his integrity and his honesty. I was thrilled when he told me this, that they have come back to the mainstream of reformed, conservative, biblical

01:54:08

Christianity from these teachings that Mr. Camping espoused that so many people stumbled over.

01:54:17

And so their official policy is that they do not endorse those teachings, they reject those teachings.

01:54:24

And I spoke with Tom personally, and he himself no longer accepts those teachings.

01:54:34

He has gone through some deep study and deep convictions, and he does not embrace them any longer.

01:54:41

And so that is very encouraging. And you will not find those teachings in the programming of family radio.

01:54:47

You can look high and low. They have sifted their programming from all of these heresies.

01:54:53

And so that's the good news with family radio. If you listen to their programming, you'll find a lot of good music.

01:55:00

You will also find that they are beginning to add teaching programs again on the air from pastors and others that they did not before, because with the rejection of the office of pastor, they would not broadcast sermons anymore like they did on their old conference echoes program.

01:55:18

Yeah, that was phenomenal. Now the title pastor to be mentioned, but they've added programs by Alistair Begg and by R .C.

01:55:27

Sproul and Ligonier, and they're right now behind the scenes in the process of making some changes and adjustments.

01:55:37

Maybe not overnight, but they will really do a great service and greatly edifying the church by bringing back family radio to the mainstream, making these large adjustments.

01:55:54

And their programming, like I said, their doctrinal position is now conservative

01:56:00

Orthodox Christianity. Their focus on the Word of God is more on the

01:56:05

Word of God than ever before. You can expect to see more programs centered on the teaching of God's Word.

01:56:13

Their hermeneutic is back where it was before 1994, when

01:56:19

Mr. Camping wrote the book 1994. And they are really focused on developing programs that are doctrinally sound, that change lives.

01:56:31

And the thing that really I was so blessed with in talking with Tom Evans and the leadership at Family Radio, there's a level of humility there, a level of remorse and regret over the mistakes that were made in the past.

01:56:46

But there's a humility where they're listening and they are learning. And they've been in this mode for actually a number of years, probably five to seven years.

01:56:56

They've been in this mode of recovery, repentance, reforming, coming back to where God would have them to be as a major platform of preaching the

01:57:07

Word of God faithfully, as they did so for so many decades, starting in 1959 until Mr.

01:57:14

Camping went in a wrong direction and caused the Family Radio train to be temporarily derailed.

01:57:21

Temporarily, I say, it's now been about 20 years. But they are really making efforts and plans to come back to the mainstream.

01:57:30

Actually, they pretty much are in the mainstream right now. And so it's very, very encouraging the direction that they're headed.

01:57:38

Well, I guess we would have to clarify what you mean by that. The mainstream within conservative, biblically sound theology, because the mainstream of Christendom today is not something we want to emulate or imitate or attach ourselves to.

01:57:54

Yeah, it's how you define mainstream, that's for sure. But I said conservative

01:58:00

Orthodox Christianity. And so we would need another program to define what that means.

01:58:07

Right, we'll have to have you back on the show. In fact, but when we go off the air, which is going to be in one minute,

01:58:13

I would like to give you some dates that you could choose from so we can have you back on the show.

01:58:18

And also, please extend my open door invitation to Tom Evans to be on this program for two hours to in his own words, tell us about these exciting new developments.

01:58:28

Well, I cannot speak for Tom, but in speaking with him today, he is moving in that direction.

01:58:34

I cannot give you a definite yay or nay. But I know he's very much open to talking with you.

01:58:41

So I'm hopeful that you will hear from him very soon. And that in the coming weeks, there will be a two hour interview on Iron Sharpens Iron.

01:58:50

And he will let everybody know from the horse's mouth, so to speak, what's going on with a lot of details on family radio.

01:58:58

And indeed, so we're very, very encouraged. We are out of time, brother. And I know, once again, the website for First Love Radio is firstloveradio .org.

01:59:07

And I'm assuming they can get the information for the other ministries of First Love from firstloveradio .org.

01:59:13

Yes, and please, please share First Love Radio with your friends and family. Firstloveradio .org.

01:59:19

Well, thank you so much, Joe, for being on the program. I want to thank my other two guests as well and everybody who listened today.

01:59:26

I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.