3 Powerful Reasons WHY the "Church of Christ" is a CULT!

Introduction to the Apologetic Dog and the Church of Christ Controversy

Well, hello and welcome to The Apologetic Dog, where it's our heart's desire to contend for the gospel of grace. Here in just a moment, I'm gonna bring in a really good new friend, one of the OG apologists, Matt Slick, and I wanna bring him in to talk about why the Church of Christ is so dangerous and why we view them as a cult.

And so, I know we said we have three reasons why they're dangerous and it's heretical, but that's going to lead into many more reasons, but this is the slickest man alive. Matt, how you doing out there?

I'm slick, all right, that's right.

Learned to run as a kid because of that name, yep.

Really? Well, hey, thanks for coming on to The Apologetic Dog. If you don't mind, tell people a little bit about yourself and where people can find your content.

Sure, I'm Matt Slick, my real name, and I'm almost 68 years old, so I'm up there, and have been doing apologetics since 1980 when someone read me a quote that Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism, said it made me mad, so I started studying.

And just always kind of did it, kind of under the radar a little bit, just did it, and had other jobs, but then I decided to go to seminary, went to Westminster Theological Seminary, was a pastor, and then I lost my pastorate over the issue of the charismatic gifts.

I believe in the charismatic gifts, even though I'm Reformed in my theology, and they, you know, it was loving. They said, okay, sorry, doesn't fit our mold, so that was it. I didn't know what to do, and then this new thing called the internet came out, and in 1995, next, in fact, this month, CARM will be 29 years old.

Oh, yeah.

That's right, 29 years old. So I started it just as a place to answer questions, you know, carm .org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, and that was it. It was just, I got tired of answering the same thing over and over, write it down, and then it exploded, and so we've had 164 million visitors, so I've written about 6 ,000 articles.

I've debated hundreds of people on radio for 21 years, written several books, blah, blah, blah. So, you know, I'm a fanatic. I love this stuff, so.

Well, Matt, you have benefited me so much, and your articles are awesome, so I'm gonna include in the show notes after the show where people can find you, and you have a wealth of knowledge. I read a lot of your articles pertaining to the church father, and I believe you said in debate one time, well, my church father can beat up your church father to a Roman Catholic or someone.

I've never forgot that.

That's right, uh-huh.

Yeah, well, I just wanna let everybody know that we are going to be fielding questions along the way, so if you have any questions pertaining to the church of Christ or baptism or the doctrine of original sin and total depravity and those things, those are the kind of questions that I wanna talk about this evening, and so I've gotten in trouble a little bit over the past couple years, Matt, because I'm willing to call the church of Christ a cult.

Now, I will say this. The church of Christ do not like to be called a denomination. Now, I scratch my head because denomination is a nice term to say, hey, you're within the fold. You believe in the gospel of grace, but we maybe disagree on some tertiary issues, but the church of Christ fundamentally claim to be the one true church.

Have you had some interactions with church of Christ that say that?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Whenever someone says, yeah, our church is the one true church, I just say, oh, another only true church, because a lot of groups say that, and it's a cult mind, well, position. And that you, and I should explain.

There's a phenomenon in psychology called snapping, and it's when you suddenly commit to a group, an idea, a sports team, whatever it is, and that becomes really something you focus on, and you accept it, and it's just true.

And so that's what happens in cults, is that they snap, and so they just believe the church of Christ is the one true church. It's like the Eastern Orthodox is the one true church, just like Jehovah's Witnesses, the one true church.

And so they've snapped, and it takes them a while to get out of that. But yeah, it's a non-Christian cult, because it preaches a false gospel. It has works of salvation.

Justification by Faith Alone Versus Salvation by Ceremony

Well, I wanna maybe first lead into that. So I kinda titled this video, three reasons why you should leave the church of Christ. It's a cult, it's dangerous. I believe that it's legalistic to the core.

And so the first thing that I wanna talk about is the church of Christ believe a false gospel. And so when I talk about cult, let me pull up maybe a functional scripture in 2 Peter chapter two. It says about false teachers that are among the body, teaching and bringing destructive heresies.

This is what I mean by biblical cults. Any doctrine that teaches you, and is going to lead you away from believing the biblical Jesus, and how to receive the biblical Christ the way that he prescribed.

And so as I've heard you quote many times on the fly, Jesus said this, I told you that you would die in your sins for unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins. So you gotta believe the biblical Jesus, the second person, the triune God, who took on flesh, dwelt among us, lived a perfect sinless life, died on Calvary, resurrected the third day, and ascended on high in a seat at the right hand of the Father.

You gotta believe in that Jesus. If you don't believe that Jesus is the eternal creator of the universe, then you're believing in a false Jesus that cannot save. And so I don't have to read this, but Galatians chapter one, talks about how you can't believe another gospel, one that is to receive Jesus by faith.

And so I think when you start messing with the doctrine of justification by faith alone, apart from our works, well then, functionally, you have deviated into some cult construct. So what do you think about that, Matt?

You're correct. In order to know it's false, you have to know it's true. And most Christians don't know what's true very well, they just know it sufficiently. They have some waders on, they can just float in the water and that's about it, but they're not getting anywhere.

And that's the issue here, is that justification by faith alone in Christ alone is demonstrated in the scripture, and I can give a lot of references. But the church of Christ is salvation by faith and a ceremony.

In fact, on the radio show today, we had a gentleman who called up and he said, baptism was necessary for salvation. And I said, it's a ceremony. He said, it's not a ceremony. And I said, let me ask you this, a wedding, a ceremony?

He said, yes. But it doesn't say wedding is a ceremony in the scriptures, but baptism is a ceremony because it's a series of things that you go through in a ritualistic kind of a sense that has a certain result.

It's a ceremony. And so they teach salvation by faith and a ceremony. And without the ceremony, you can't be saved. And this is the mark of a false religion.

Matt, I like how you emphasize ceremony because this is how I demonstrate that it's a ceremony. When we go to the Greek word, baptizo, and we see that it's to dip or immerse, there's a more of a definition to talk about when someone is participating, whether it be infants over there or believers like in Acts 2.

This word goes on to say it's a ceremonial rite. So it's baked into the word. And I believe it's in John chapter three where there were Jews dispute, or there were John's disciples were disputing with the Jew over purification rite.

And the context is that they were baptizing. And so this has roots that I would even argue go deeper into the Torah where there were ceremonies, high priests being fully bathed in water. And I'm just saying it's a purification rite.

Therefore, it is definitionally a ceremony and it can't be questioned.

Yeah, we could talk a lot about the use of baptizo in the scriptures, but yeah.

Yeah, so

Actually, I've got a baptism table on my site where I went through every single instance in the New Testament of baptizo. And to show that it's used in one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight different senses.

Yeah, anyway, we'll get into that.

Yeah, so one of the proof texts for them, because we're talking about justification by faith. So essentially Romans 5 .1 talks about how this is how we have peace with God. Justification is by faith and it doesn't say anything else.

Now, what I've seen with Roman Catholics is pistis, faith, is kind of redefined into faithfulness, your faithful obedience, Matt. That's not your works. So sure, we believe in justification by faith, but that faith is your faithful obedience to a list of commands.

That's what I hear when I hear the Church of Christ say that you're participating, works and baptism is necessary to have your past sins washed away.

Yeah, and it's a problem. There's lots of problems there. One of the things that I'll do to get around that is try and get them to see is I'll say, look, God is one who grants that we have faith. Look, it's 129, to you it has been granted.

That's the aorist passive indicative in the Greek. By the way, I've been to seminary too. And so we learned a lot of stuff. So in aorist passive indicative means that it's a aorist past tense, passive means it happened to you.

Indicative means it's a fact. So God has granted that you believe. It's the work of God that you believe on him whom he has sent. That's what the Bible is actually saying. Now, all cults, what they do is they lower God when they exalt man.

Man's freedom, man's sovereignty, man's free will. We can discuss free will and what that is biblically. We can go through all of that as part of the necessity. And so they fail to get that. And they fail to understand that God is one who grants us faith.

And Jesus says, this is the work of God that you believe on him whom he has sent, John 6, 29. So what I ask him is this, I say, look, if faith is granted by God and it's in Christ, and of course what he did, who he is and all that, is it true faith?

They have to answer yes. Because they can't say that the faith that comes from God, that's in Christ, that's the work of God. They can't say it's false faith. I say, good, is that faith that God grants to us that's in Christ, is it sufficient in and of itself to justify us?

That's the question. And if they say no, well, the Bible says, having therefore been justified by faith, Romans 5, 1. Or we maintain that man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. And we get into, I know what they do with all that, Romans 3, 28.

And I say, so what you're saying is that we're not justified by faith? And sometimes they'll say, yes, we are. Because they'll say, you are when you get baptized. So what I'll say is, well, let me ask you, does the Bible teach we're justified by faith?

Romans 5, 1. Having therefore been justified by faith. Does the Bible teach we're justified by faith? Yes. Then here's the question. Are we justified by faith when we have faith? That's the question. They say, yes, baptism's not necessary.

If they say no, they deny what the scriptures teach. That's called quick and slick.

Quick and slick, I like it. And so what they have to do is redefine justification and redefine faith. They shoehorn obedience. That's kind of the catch-all, I've noticed, is the word obey. And so what I add to kind of what you say, because I really like how you're talking about is it by faith or is it not?

And then I say, or is it when faith has worked a particular action, like in baptism? So with the Church of Christ, they don't like me using work in that context like James 2 has all over the place. So what I've heard from Church of Christ say is, well, works doesn't refer to your general obedience.

I'm like, oh yeah, it does. Abraham was not justified by his general obedience to be circumcised. He was justified by faith. And so to me, Abraham is the case example, how Abraham was justified, which was by faith and not by ceremony, to your point.

That's the same way Roman 4 concludes, not just for his sake, but for our benefit as well, we're justified that way.

Amen, brother. So let's just say it again. The Church of Christ teaches a false gospel. It teaches a false gospel because their salvation is not dependent on God alone. It's dependent on God and what they do and that ceremony of baptism.

And we could go to Acts 2 .38. We could go to Acts 16. We could go to 1 Peter 3 .21 or Galatians 3 .27. We could go to all this stuff and talk about, put them in context, but they teach a false gospel because they add a ceremony to the finished work of Christ.

Yep, that's what they do.

Yeah, I have someone in the side chat saying, why do you add alone twice in Ephesians 2 .8? You are adding to scripture. And so I've come across this a lot. And I just say justification by faith alone is a theological conclusion.

We're saying, I've heard this illustration before. Tell me if you've heard it, Matt. You have a table and you could have an apple and an orange on a table. You could take the orange off and the apple would be alone.

So when we're talking about faith and works and we're saying it's not by your works, then we're talking about faith alone. Have you ever heard that illustration?

Oh yeah, I use an apple and an orange in a bag. And you go to Romans 4 .5, Romans 4 .5, to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credit, his righteousness.

So if you have works and faith and one is removed and it's by itself and that's alone, that's it. And I don't say by faith alone in Ephesians 2 .8 .9. I don't add that word, but I asked them to tell me in Romans 4 .5 to the one who does not work but believes.

Is Paul negating works? That's all I asked him, is he negating works? And they have to say yes, because that's what it says. And they'll say, well, what kind of works is it? Oh, you tell me. You tell me what kind of works it is that he's negating and show it to me.

And then we talk about that, but yeah. This is why salvation is based on what God does, not what we do, because that's what cults do. Mormonism says in 2 Nephi 25 .23, you're saved by grace through faith after all you can do.

The Roman Catholicism, paragraph 20 .68, you're saved by faith, baptism, and the observance of the commandments. It's an act of faith. It's the same as Church of Christ. Or you go to Eastern Orthodox and they say the same thing.

Justification is occurring at baptism. And then you maintain it through the energies of God, the graces of God that you become justified over a long period of time. The Jehovah's Witnesses, 1983, Watchtower, April 1st says, page 12 says that you have to obey the commandments in order to be saved.

Well, what commandments? Well, these are the thing. All false religions deny the sufficiency of the blood of Christ in and of itself. They deny the sufficiency of the faith that God grants to us that's in Christ.

They deny a sufficiency that comes from God alone. They spit on the cross. They spit on the blood of Christ. And they say that a ceremony must complete what Jesus did. And I need to believe with my obedience, with my works.

I got to slip my works in there. And what they're doing is they're crawling up to the cross of Christ on that bloody day where the blood of God is coming down, dripping down his arms, his back, his knees, his feet down into the dirt.

And they're crawling up to that cross with humility, their faces down, and then they get right up to the very feet of Christ. And they take a list of their deeds, their goodness, their works, and they nail it to the cross.

This is my baptism. This is my repentance. This is my sincerity.

And all of this, and they hope that God the Father will accept their salvation based on the blood of God, Christ, and their works, their stuff that they do. The arrogance, the foolishness, the demonic teaching that that really is.

It denies a sufficiency of the cross of Christ and the church of Christ and all false religions need to repent of that false doctrine.

James 2, Faith, Works, and the Horizontal Demonstration of Faith

Now, Matt, you said, you know, a lot, you used the word works a lot there. And even through the term obedience. So we have somebody that I think is a kind of fan of the apologetic dog, maybe a distant fan.

But think all philosopher. He is an advocate of the church of Christ, no doubt. And he says, Matt Slick, the key to understand that the works of law Paul is talking about in Romans is we're not saved by the works of the Mosaic law, but by totally different set of actions that James says are essential to saving faith.

So you maybe haven't wrote any articles about James chapter two, but can you help. Thanko out?

Okay, well, see, this is where I could talk to him and say, what are you saying James is saying? Now, we wanna tackle James. What James is doing, starting in verse 14, and he says, the one who says he has faith, but he doesn't have works, can that faith save him?

And then he relates it in verse 19 to the faith of demonic forces. So it's obviously a false faith. And I asked him very quickly, is the faith that James is talking about, the faith that God grants, Philippians 129, that's in Jesus, John 6, 29, is that the same faith?

That's the issue. So I'll ask him and you can type it out in your text. Is the faith that God grants, Philippians 129, to you it has been granted to believe, and that faith that is in Jesus, because Jesus says, this is the work of God that you believe on him whom he has sent.

In fact, let me add something in here a little bit that'll help you guys out to believe biblical theology, not cult theology out of the church of Christ. This is what it says in John 1, 12, and 13, about believing, but many as received him, to them he gave the right to become the children of God, even to those who believe in his name, believe, who were born, that's in the context of believing, born again, not of the blood, nor the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God.

This is another instance where God's work is what you need to focus on, not your own. Don't be arrogant. Don't be thinking that your salvation rests in your ability to keep the law, to do anything right.

That's what James was talking about there. And he says in verse 18, he says, you summon your faith by your works, I'll show you mine by mine. You show me your faith without, I'll show you my faith by my works.

This is the horizontal, it's not the vertical, because in James two, it's you show me your faith, I'll show you my faith, horizontal. Romans four, God's justification by faith for him. And all the false religious systems fail to understand what James is speaking about.

But some of them may well say, you have faith and I have works, show me your faith apart from your works, I will show you my faith by my works. I can't read your heart, I don't know what faith you have.

I can only look at your works. I can only look at what you do. That's what James is talking about. But God doesn't need that. God doesn't need your works to prove anything to him. God doesn't need that because he knows your heart.

He's the one who grants you have faith and grants that it's in Christ Jesus, which is why Jesus says in John 6, 65, you cannot come to me unless it's granted to you from the Father. So this is the praise and the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ and the work of God the Father in our redemptive work, not adding a ceremony to it.

And James two does not support their view.

Matt, I've noticed something in common with Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses and the Church of Christ and they all have the same interpretation of James two. And to me, that's the red flag, is kind of failing to understand that horizontal, you know, human to human relationship because I can't see Matt's heart.

I can see the demonstration of his life by his works of things that are expressed, but God knows his heart. In James chapter two, back to verse 14, if someone says he has faith, so this is a mere said faith and a mere said faith is a dead faith and is useless.

And like I said, you know, verse 18 really kind of vindicates that mentality. And when you go to Abraham, he was fulfilling his faith before men. All the Jews that had the Torah saw Abraham's life. You had three witnesses to Abraham's vindicated faith by his works, Isaac and two travelers that were with him.

Even God spoke on man's level and said, now I know, right? It didn't compromise his knowledge, but God is testifying to the fact that the just shall live by faith. And so this is the verse that I get thrown at me all the time, Matt.

Well, I would believe justification by faith alone. If you could show me one verse where it says faith alone and it's James 2 .24 and that's the only time where it says not by faith alone. And I try to point out here, you see, that keeps the context like you were just grounding this human to human interaction.

You see, human to human, that a person is justified by works and not a mere said dead faith alone. So a true living faith will work itself out.

So.

God doesn't need our works. But you know, one of the things I'll do with Church of Christ and Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics, and I'll say, okay, give me a list of the things you've got to do to keep yourself right with the infinitely holy God.

Because it's obvious they're not trusting by faith alone in Christ alone. And what he's done, you have to add something. They show your baptism is one of the things you add. What else do you add? What else do you add to the finished work of God?

How do you maintain your place with the infinitely holy God? Give me the list of things you're doing. And I would challenge a Church of Christ person right now. If you have that idea, if you believe that anything you do maintains your place with God, initial justification that you're baptized and you've got to maintain a good life, then you're just in a cult.

That's all it is. That's a false gospel. You cannot maintain your place with God. Think about it. Do you actually believe that you could possibly maintain your position with the infinitely holy being who is God?

You think you can maintain your position, your salvation by your goodness? Think you can actually do that? Because if you can, if you think so, put out in the chat, I'm looking at the YouTube, put in there the list of things you've got to do to keep yourself right with the infinitely holy God.

I'd like to see that list.

And Juan Carr Henry, Matt Slick says, show us in the side channel.

Yeah, show us right there. Show us in the text. Wish I could log in so I could make some comments in there, but I should've done it before. Show us what you got to do. Show me what you got to do. What's the list of things you got to do to keep yourself right with the infinitely holy God?

Be baptized, don't lie, don't commit adultery. What?

What's the list?

Matt, Matt, Matt, you got to hear the word. You got to believe. You got to repent. You got to confess your sin and you got to be baptized. And then there's another sixth step. You got to be holy. You got to keep on repenting.

And if you don't, Matt, then you can lose your salvation.

Wow.

That proves they're already in a state of damnation. And the reason it does is because they think that in their own efforts, they can maintain their holiness. That's what they're saying. And they don't realize the great sin that that is.

It's an incredible sin to say, I can through my sincerity, whatever it is, my repentance, my being holy, my walk, I keep myself right with God. That's what Islam teaches. That's what Roman Catholicism teaches.

So, you know, when they say be holy, say, well, what is it? Well, let's go back to repentance. If you are lying and you read the word of God that says, don't lie, that's the law. So repentance is compliance with the law.

Repentance isn't what justifies you, it's faith that justifies you. Repentance is the thing that is the result of the regeneration within you, where you made new creatures, 2 Corinthians 5 .17, and you're dwelt by the Lord God.

That's Father and the Son indwell us, and that's John 14 .23, and the Holy Spirit indwells us, Romans 8 .11. So we know that when God is in us, we're regenerated, and then we can then do those things that are right, that are good.

But repentance is compliance with the law. So you have to repent, and that's how you get yourself saved with faith, with baptism, and that's how you keep yourself saved. So repentance, turning from their sins, means that they are supposed to comply with the moral teachings of the law, either in the Old or the New Testament, and that's how they maintain themselves with God.

At that point, this is what they should do. They should do this one thing. Pat themselves on the back.

Man, my arm would hurt if I was patting myself on the back that much. Like, it would be sore.

Well, here's a question then, okay, I'm gonna ask you, and I think you know this stuff.

Better than I do.

Now, let me ask you. Can a Church of Christ person know that they have eternal life? Do they know they have eternal life?

I know I do. If they're being obedient, they can know.

Oh, see, eternal life, Jesus says, there's a little theological point a lot of people miss. In John 3 .16, all who believe would have eternal life and never perish. Jesus equates eternal life with never perishing.

In John 10 .27, my sheep hear my voice, I give eternal life to them and they shall never perish. And you go to John 6 .37 -40 and compress it down and say that the will of the Father is that Jesus not lose any, that they have eternal life.

They're never gonna perish. Jesus equates eternal life with never perishing. He does not equate eternal life with your maintenance of eternal life, to your goodness of repentance and your sincerity, that it rests in you and your ability.

That's what the devil wants you to believe because he wants you to take your eyes off of the sufficiency of Christ and put it on yourself and your ability to comply with the law. So you will keep that law, you'll do those things.

So you've got to hear the word, but God is the one who opens your mind to understand the scripture. And that's Acts 16 .14. He's the one who grants you repentance, 2 Timothy 2 .25. He's the one who grants that you have faith, Philippians 1 .29, that faith thing in Jesus Christ, John 6 .29.

In fact, in Acts 13 .48, as many as had been appointed to eternal life, believe. You believe because God appointed you to eternal life. That's why. Now, what they'll do is they say, all of that rests on me.

All of that, that is the work of the cross becomes effective when I believe. The work of the cross becomes true when I do it. The work of the cross becomes true and powerful when I get baptized. The work of the cross of Jesus becomes powerful and stays powerful based on my ability to keep the law, to do what's right.

And I'll be the one who's gonna maintain my holiness. I'll be the one who's gonna do that. That's what's going on. It's a false gospel, false gospel, false gospel.

Man, I felt some of the heat coming out through that, but hey, this is serious stuff, isn't it?

Yeah, I'm keeping it calm, man. I can really go to town. I'm serious. I am toning it down.

Well, hey, you're on the apologetic dock. You can just, you can let the fire come out. Have a good question from a dear brother. And he knows that you're the person to ask because when debating Roman Catholics, East and Orthodox, they will a lot of times talk about baptismal regeneration.

Well, all the early church fathers, they believed in baptismal regeneration. You're gonna tell me that the church got it wrong for so many hundreds of years. What do you think the best way to respond to someone that says all of the early church fathers believed in baptismal regeneration?

Well, I say my church father can beat up your church father. And then I say, hey, go to karm .org and look up the early church fathers on baptism and salvation. In fact, did you know that Irenaeus said baptism was necessary for salvation?

As did Origen and Tertullian and Ambrose. Oh, but how about this? Clement of Rome said it's not necessary. Polycarp said it's not necessary. Marius Victorinus said it's not necessary. And these are just some of the examples.

So when they say all the church fathers, I say, wrong. You have not done your homework. Anybody who says all the church fathers agree, no, it's not true. And I know instantly they've not thought. They've only regurgitated what they've been told the truth is.

They've not researched it. They've not seen it. They don't know. This is another part of the cult mind. You just believe what you're told by your church and it's just the way, the truth and the life. And when I go in and I do my research, I find the opposite of what they're saying is true.

So they do not know the truth. I'm gonna say it again. They're in a false religion. They're in a false gospel and a non-Christian cult and they believe false things. And if they were to die right now, believing what they do in the church of Christ doctrine, it's not a threat, it's not me being mean, it's me being pastoral.

You're gonna end up going to hell because you're not trusting in the blood of Christ alone.

Just to briefly add a little bit, I think it's Cyril of Jerusalem explicitly says that regeneration precedes going into the font of water. And there are some other church fathers that say very similar things like that.

And then you have the historic debate about baptism. Is it the work worked or is it the one working? And we're like, oh, that kind of sounds like the just shall live by faith. And John Chrysostom, so many of the early church talked about, well, justification.

They would say explicitly is by faith alone apart from works. And so you gotta let the early church be the early church and we hold them to the bar of scripture. And when they get it right, we yes and amen, we're called to be noble Bereans.

And when we see some inconsistencies, that's okay. God is sanctifying his bride over time. That's kind of a bigger principle that I would take away from Ephesians chapter five. And so, and I would argue, and I know Matt has written many articles about this, but the early church, they believed in sola scriptura.

They would not want us to take their word as infallible. So it's fun to get into those bigger worldview discussions about who has the ultimate authority. Is it God and his infallible word? Or is it man and his traditions?

So there's bigger things on the table. I appreciate you saying that. Yeah, preach at the Paul Jack Dog. You like my beard? I got a little bit of the, that's a part of the Paul Jack Dog logo.