WWUTT 875 Q&A Naming Names, Nouthetic Counseling, and Jesus Soul?

Why do some of our videos call out false teachers by name? What is New Thetic Counseling and is it a good thing?

And did Jesus have a human soul? The answers to these questions and others when we understand the text.

This is When We Understand The Text, a daily study in the Word of God that we may be conformed to the image of Christ.

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Here once again is Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. You know, this might be hard to believe, but we have not been on this podcast together yet to talk about going to G3.

That's right. We haven't, have we? Was that two weeks ago now? Well, I mean, kind of did on the way back.

When we did the little video Q &As. Yeah, we talked about it there. Yeah, a little bit. So how was it?

It was great. It was great. We loved meeting everybody. Absolutely loved it. Yes, thank you so much for coming to the booth, the booth, singular.

I mean, booths. There were a lot of booths. There were a lot of booths. But we only had one booth. Yes. And way back in the corner where we were at.

But you know, that was honestly a great location because we just had the wall right next to us there. And that way people could gather and congregate there and we weren't really clogging up a line or anything.

Right. So we noticed that there were some people that came and they stood and waited to talk to us and then they left.

Because it would kind of clump together quite a bit there sometimes. But I hope that everybody wanted to come by and say, hi,

I got the chance to. Yeah, I hope so too. Or at least you were able to jump on the table and grab a free pen. Right. Get your stamp.

Now, Becky, you got to tell this story about the free coffee cup or the gift. Yes. Free coffee cup, the gift that you got.

The gift, the wonderful gift. Wonderful present you got. Okay, so what happened was, this lady came up to our table, sweet little lady.

Millie. Millie. Yes. And when I say little, she's just petite.

She's so cute. And she says, hi, we're best friends.

And I was like, oh, great. Good to meet a best friend. So she shares a story about how

I'm in her kitchen every morning and we have coffee together and do dishes together. It's just a great time together.

So anyway, she heard on the podcast as we were chatting and said -

It was that episode where you were talking about you needed a coffee cup. Yep, the coffee cup that says - With the lines. Not yet.

There's a - Almost. Line toward the top of the coffee cup that says shh. Don't talk to Becky yet.

There's shh. And then there's almost, not yet, or something like that. And then it's okay, now.

Right, down near the bottom. Yep, yep. So Millie - So Millie was so sweet.

And she's like, I got you a present. And it was that cup. It was so awesome. So she got the mug for Becky.

Yeah. I hardly even remembered we had talked about that until you showed me the cup. I was, oh, yeah, yeah.

I remember talking about that now. I love meeting best friends. So it was great. We have actually great stories about a lot of folks that we mentioned.

Yes, thank you, Millie, by the way. Yeah. And testimonies from folks that have talked about just how much the videos and the podcast meant to them.

And we get that from the emails sometimes. You know, folks will say just how much they appreciate the ministry, but it's different when you meet them in person.

Oh, yeah, yeah. When you get to actually meet one another face to face and shake hands, or in Becky's case, exchange hugs.

Yes, I love the hugs. And laugh and receive suggestions from everybody in person, you know, not just.

Yeah, that was fun. By a Facebook comment or an email or something like that. We enjoyed our time at G3.

And it was actually while we were at the G3 conference. Becky doesn't like me talking about these things.

Nope, nope. We hit one million downloads on the podcast while we were there in Atlanta.

I mean, it's exciting. But that just means that my voice is out there that much.

Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry, guys. When we were. But everybody loves you. I know, it's so embarrassing.

I don't know what you're worried about. When we were asking for donations for folks who could help us get down to G3 and pay for our booth, because it costs a little bit more than just admission to the conference.

One of the things that we said was we want to have the opportunity not just to meet listeners and viewers of the videos, but also have the chance to let other people know about the ministry.

Yeah, that was really cool. And it was about 50 -50. We had half the folks that came to the table had heard of us before.

Some were real enthusiastic and some were just like, yeah, I've heard of you. Yeah, you guys are cool. Yep. And then the other half had never heard of us before.

And so they would stop and we would do our pitch, which was just real simple. Yeah, it was very basic.

It was about 90 seconds. Yeah, it was about a 90 second pitch. Right? And they would say,

I'd tell them, and this is all free. And they would go, free? Really? And actually, one of the questions that we got quite a bit was how are we able to do this for free?

Right. How can we do the podcast and the videos and everything else and keep all of these resources available for free?

Our church takes really good care of us. Amen. So we really don't need anything else. Our church is helping to meet all of our needs.

Our bills get paid. Right. So there's not a reason for us to have to charge people to listen to the podcast or charge for the videos.

Or even put ads on the videos. Yeah. See, especially with the videos, I don't want to monetize them on YouTube.

Right. Because then when a church is trying to show them or a youth group and they have to sit there and wait for an ad.

For six seconds. That's a long time when you're just watching a 90 second clip. Right. No kidding.

You have to do that little 15 second blip at the beginning or whatever. The five second crawl, whatever it might happen to be.

Mm -hmm. I don't want that to have to pop up when somebody's just trying to show a ministry video in youth group or church.

Right. So we're going to keep those ad free. We're not going to ever monetize the videos. And of course, putting them on YouTube, YouTube doesn't charge you to do that.

Right. And as long as YouTube is not going to take it upon themselves to put ads on those videos.

Right. I'm just going to leave it the way that it is. So of course, with the YouTube channel. Don't give him any ideas.

With the YouTube channel and also with the Facebook page, that doesn't cost us any money. So we can throw the videos on there and not have to worry about that expense.

Mm -hmm. The website costs us $10 a year. Yeah. That's it. That's all I'm paying for the way.

And even then, all I'm paying is for the price of the domain name. Right. But the website itself doesn't really cost anything.

The podcast hosting page, which we do our podcast through Podbean, that costs a little over $10.

Mm -hmm. And I think it's around, it's either July or August, that bill comes due.

And I just have it as an automatic, you know, it just automatically comes out of our account or whatever card I have on it.

I don't remember. So if there's any expense that we have, that's the biggest one. Right. But otherwise, again, our church is wonderfully gracious to us and meets all of our needs.

And this is not a thing that we do to try to, you know, earn more capital for ourselves.

Right. And that is not an indictment against anybody else's ministry. You're correct. If anyone else has a ministry that they're doing where they, you know, maybe they have some things free, but if you want, like, additional content, you have to pay money for it.

Mm -hmm. If they need to do that in order for their ministry to operate, that's fine. And I'm not passing judgment on them in any way.

Just for us, on our part, It just works out. Right. We don't have to charge anybody anything. Yeah.

And we'll continue to put out that kind of content. Now, of course, my responsibilities increase.

And so I'm kind of to a point now where I can only do about one video a week. Yeah. There was a period of time I could crank out about two or three.

Yeah. Yeah, I know. You still act like you're disappointed that it's only one a week. And I'm thinking, that's a lot.

Because we're also doing podcasts and stuff like that. Yeah, we're also doing the podcast. One video can be as much as eight hours a week.

Mm -hmm. So on top of everything else that I do at the church and the other ministries that we have there. So I stay plenty busy.

And family time. And family time. Mm -hmm. Of course. But anyway, yeah, like I said, our church is wonderful and we shared that with them even when we came back from G3.

Mm -hmm. Shared the stories of some of the encounters that we had and thanked our congregation for what they did because we got to see and meet people who have benefited from this ministry and say, hey, you guys are just as much part of this because your support of this church supports this ministry that is worldwide.

We get emails from people all around the globe who thank us for what we do in the videos and the daily

Bible teaching on the podcast. Yeah. Your support comes to us either by donation.

You can give a donation and that does go to help meet expenses on various things. Mm -hmm. All that money goes straight to our church, by the way, which is nonprofit.

And now, of course, 2018 is over. Yeah. So we're in the 2019 year. So you're looking ahead.

You're looking ahead now. But if you want to give a donation, you can do that on our website, www .utt .com.

And if you are out of the country and would like to give a donation but you can't do it through simple give or through, oh, check,

I guess is the other method of pay that we've got on there on the website. And you want another way, like, can

I give to you guys via PayPal somehow? Mm -hmm. Send me an email and ask that. I'll give you that information privately.

Right. But if that's the way that you can give to us, that's fine too. Yep. Or you can just buy a book on Amazon. That too.

That also, that also comes our way. Or a shirt. A shirt. I need to get those online. I don't have those up yet.

You don't have those on yet? No, no. Oh, man. Well, I have them on. I wear my, my what shirt.

Ha, ha, ha, ha. On the website. Yeah, no, they're not, they're not on the webpage yet. So we had those white hoodies that we were selling.

And a couple of folks have taken pictures of themselves in the hoodies and said, hey, we love the shirts.

Love it. And the t -shirts were dark blue. I kind of like the white better. I think I'm going to go back to the white. Yeah, the white has a better color.

It just all works out on white. I guess I'm just used to seeing. Yeah, yeah. I guess I'm just used to seeing when we understand the text on white background.

On white background. Yeah. So the white just works out. Yeah. It's burned into my retinas.

So anyway, that'll get on the website at some point. Facebook .com slash WWUTT. And for those of you following us on Twitter, it's

Twitter .com slash WWUTT com. That's how you find us on Twitter.

All right. So here we go. It is Friday. So we're taking questions from listeners. More questions. And this one is actually a criticism, but I was honored by the fact that this guy had emailed me.

It turns out he's somewhat of a YouTube celebrity. I went to his page and looked at his videos and he gets over a million views per video.

Whoa. Now this was not, it wasn't a Bible -based website. Okay. So it's awesome that he found my videos and watched several when we understand the text videos and then sent this email.

Okay. And I've since responded to him. This guy's name is Ian. He says, Dear WUTT, most of your videos seem to be spot on with the knowledge of the

Bible and what the Spirit has taught me. Awesome job. But, and of course there's always a but,

LOL, if I make a suggestion, I'd stray away from the finger -pointing outreach you seem to have.

Your ministry seems to single out specific people and essentially judge them. Take for instance,

Unlearn, the Hebrew Roots ministry. Okay. Oprah, Politics, which is not really geared toward one person.

Lauren Daigle or Lady Gaga. Granted, I don't agree with four out of five messages

I just listed, but why would it be beneficial for the Kingdom of God to say, you are a

God -fearing man meanwhile speaking judgmentally in your videos? Please don't take this in a negative way.

If you choose to disregard this email, all I can do is pray. I watched quite a few of your videos and I agree with many, but when

I got to the video on Unlearn, it was quite alarming. On the Unlearn Hebrew Roots guy.

Personally, I have been making YouTube videos for quite a while and I have a very good understanding of human psychology over the internet.

To make finger -pointing videos such as you are making creates an uproar behind the scenes in these viewers, especially if you are pointing fingers at other people who profess their love for God.

Not to mention some of your message is your interpretation opposed to others' interpretations.

Again, the whole being led by my spirit thing. Ha ha. Okay, try to get that right.

Again, the whole being led by my spirit, by the spirit thing. All right. I think what he's saying there is that he's led by the spirit and others who have different interpretations of the text that I'm reading have their own leading of the spirit.

So that's why there's so many different interpretations. It's kind of a sentence fragment, but I'm pretty sure that's what he's saying there.

As a brother in Christ, he says, I am here to spread a message I believe was laid on my heart to your ministry.

My YouTube channel is, and then he gives me the link, I have been in this industry for over nine years when a video is made, even more so if the comments are disabled, which we have all comments disabled on our videos, pointing a finger at someone else, it creates an internal uproar with the viewers.

Be very careful with this, Ian. Well, Ian, and again, as I said to him in the email that I replied to him,

I was very flattered to have received his email because he does kind of look like a YouTube celebrity. I can tell that he makes his living out of this because there's a certain number of views that you can get on your videos.

And if you've monetized those videos and you have income coming in from that, you're doing pretty well with a significant number of views.

And so I think that for him, yeah, this probably is a full time job for him, but his videos are entirely geared toward entertainment.

Okay. And mine are not. Right. So they are teaching tools, can be entertaining, but that's not my objective.

Right. They just kind of end up entertaining haphazardly. But I'm not trying to be entertaining.

That's not my objective. I'm using the gifts that the Lord has given to me to create these videos and provide summarizations to key, essential, biblical truths.

And well, I say key, essential, biblical truths. It all comes back to the essentials of the gospel. Right. But there's a lot of, you know, secondary and even tertiary things that are addressed in those videos as well.

Now, if I may narrow down Ian's email to a question, he asked this question.

He said, why would it be beneficial for the kingdom of God to say you are a God -fearing man, meanwhile, speaking judgmentally in your videos?

Mm -hmm. There's kind of some backhandedness to that. Mm -hmm. But let me just...

But he didn't mean it negatively. Yeah, right. He didn't mean it Yeah. Just observe.

Just move on. I responded to that question this way.

Negatively. There we go. I got it. I responded like this. I am a pastor, and among the qualifications of a pastor,

Titus 1 .9 says, he must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may give instruction in sound doctrine, and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

Mm -hmm. There are times when rebuking those who contradict it means that names are gonna have to be named.

Right. Jesus did this. Yeah. Now, Ian said that he had a problem with even some of the more politically -leaning videos.

Well, Jesus called out politicians. Mm -hmm. In Luke 13 .32, he said of Herod that he was a fox.

Mm -hmm. So he straight -up called out Right. this guy who was king in Jerusalem.

And he rebuked Yeah. He rebuked false teachers in public Mm -hmm. to their faces Right. before crowds of people.

Paul and John also named names. 1 Timothy 1 .20 is where Paul mentions

Hymenaeus and Alexander. 2 Timothy 4 .10, Paul mentions Demas Mm -hmm.

who deserted me Right. and was in love with this world and went back to Thessalonica. Right. 3

John 1 .9, John mentions diatrophies who will not listen to us, so we're gonna deal with him when we get there.

Mm -hmm. Paul even called out fellow sisters. Yeah, I was gonna say them. Were you really?

Yeah, I was. I'm sorry. No, it's fine. I should have given you the opportunity. Yeah, it's fine. No, go right ahead. No, no.

No, okay. Yeah. I don't have the Bible reference. I just know that he called out two ladies. Yeah.

And they need to stop. They needed to stop. They're bickering with one another. Right. Yodi and Sintesh in Philippians 4 .2.

Yep. Naming names. This is calling out names. We have this done in the scriptures. In Acts.

Mm -hmm. I mean, anytime in the story of Acts, you have somebody who was some nonsense person that needed to be rebuked.

They were named in the book of Acts. They were. Like Simon the Magician. Yeah. For example. Or you have

Ananias and Sapphira who were struck dead Yeah. because they lied.

Right. So there are times when naming names is necessary. Now, there are other times when naming names probably distracts from the point that I'm trying to make in the video.

Exactly. Even if there is a name that I could attach to what I'm saying, if it's gonna distract from the point, like everybody's gonna get on, oh, look,

Gabe calls out so -and -so in this video. Well, that's not the point. The point is what it is that this person is saying.

Is wrong. Is wrong, right. Right. It might be a common teaching that's shared by a lot of false teachers. Right. In which case,

I'm just gonna focus on the teaching and not so much the teacher. It's not warning you about the teacher as much as it is look out for this because this is contrary to what the scriptures say.

And seems to be a little bit more broad spread than just... Broad spread? Widespread?

Yeah. Broad? A little more broad? I'm gonna just stop. You're putting them together. I am. I am. I'm gonna just stop talking right now because all my words are jumbled.

Yeah, now I lost my train of thought too. So again, in keeping with the instruction made of me as a pastor to hold firm to sound doctrine and teach it rightly and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

That's my responsibility before my congregation. That's right. And when we understand the text started as a ministry for our church, it was responding to questions and things that were coming up within our own congregation.

It just happened to spread out and be a bigger thing. Right. And that was another question that we got a lot at the booth.

What was that? Was how we started out. Oh, yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, just video.

Just these short videos. Always the video. Well, it started out as the four and a half minute videos. Right. Which only did that for a few months and there were only four videos.

And then the plan was that there were other topics that we could address that didn't take us four and a half minutes to address.

So we could do this in 90 seconds. The idea was we would do like a four and a half minute video and then 10 90 second videos and then another four and a half minute video.

But I've never done another four and a half minute video since then. Well, they took a while, too. Yeah, they did take a lot longer.

They really did. But now it's been, you know, 230 90 second videos and only four four and a half minute videos.

But all of that was focused on how we can shepherd this church.

Me and, you know, some of the other guys that I was talking with on how we can. You would preach on Sunday and then we'd get home.

And even that day, that same day, people would post on Facebook little memes of something that contradicted exactly what you just what you just said.

The opposite of what I just said. Right. Yeah. And it was so frustrating. It's like, how how do we drive this home for them?

You know, like, yes, in church, it makes sense. But then when you get home, you kind of forget, you know, because you're stepping back into your life and your routine.

It just kind of, well, what, what did he preach again? I don't remember until you get to Sunday again. And then you're like, oh, yeah,

I remember this. You know, so we just wanted something at home that they could watch that I just drive at home and share on social media and share and talk about and that sort of thing.

And so it just sort of developed off of that. Yeah, this was at the end of 2014. At the end of 2014, start of 2015.

And that was quite a season for me because I remember going through kind of a crisis as a pastor and trying to figure out how can

I get this to hit home with the people in my congregation? I see heads nodding.

Right. But then after church, they're doing the opposite of what was just preached. So something is not connecting.

And how do I get this to connect? And when we understand the text was just one of those things that came about in that season where I'm trying to figure out how can

I get this to hit home better than attending home. In home. There you go. How do I get this to hit home in home?

And there was a general frustration with the videos that I was seeing people share on Facebook.

It's like, these are awful. Yeah. They were bad. And that was what prompted the friend of mine, Joe, to say, well, make your own videos.

That's right. And that was like revolutionary. Ding. Really? I can make my own videos?

I almost visibly saw the exclamation point come above your head.

The light bulb. Ding. Whoa. I thought that was What a great idea. I thought that was only in cartoons that would happen.

So, I don't preach the word based on my own interpretation. Ian had something else that he mentioned there in the email about, hey, it's just your interpretation.

No, as R .C. Sproul put it, there's only one interpretation of the text. Right. There may be 10 ,000 applications, but there's only one interpretation.

Right. And Peter even said in 2 Peter 1 .21, no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man.

By someone's own interpretation. Uh -huh. But men spoke from God as they were carried along by the

Holy Spirit. So, there's only one way to understand the text. That's right. But there may be 10 ,000 ways to apply it.

And the videos do that. You know, the videos are not like comprehensive. It's not one subject gets addressed in a video, 90 seconds, boom, that's it.

It can't be anything else. Uh -huh. I've only addressed part of the subject, but it at least opens it up enough for you that you can get kind of the nuts and bolts of it.

Uh -huh. And then start to find greater application beyond what was even addressed in that video. Right. So, then when we get to the videos that deal specifically with those false teachers, like the unlearned guy,

Oprah, Lady Gaga, Ms. Daigle, these are not teachers who should be trusted. Right.

And every time that one of those videos gets done, it's generally pretty timely or pertinent to something that's going on that has kind of risen up in pop culture media.

Uh -huh. And if I can hop on that video fast enough, then it circulates really, really well.

Uh -huh. And that's what I want. I want the gospel to come out in this topic that is on everybody's minds right now.

Right. So, like for example, a week ago, well, it was two weeks ago that Lady Gaga made her comment that she did that prompted the what video.

I was actually working on that video when guys like Michael Kruger were popping up with blogs about it or somebody else did a blog on it.

I can't remember who it was. But these guys are jumping on blogs. I'm going, no, no, I'm not done with my video yet. I was trying to beat you guys, you know.

Kruger's blog was wonderful. It was terrific. But then what happened was the New York bill passed that legalized abortion at pretty much every stage of pregnancy.

Yeah. And that was horrifying. And so, since that was so fresh on everybody's minds, I took the

Lady Gaga video out of production. I kind of paused on that one and I went right into writing the script and putting together that abortion video or the video on abortion which dropped that night just hours after the governor of New York had signed that bill into law.

And so that way that was getting in front of people and the gospel was being shared there as well.

We're grateful for the people who watch the video and then it gets circulated the way that it does just to try to get the gospel out there.

And there are going to be times when, again, that's going to require naming names. And Jesus said, false

Christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders so as to lead astray if possible, even the elect.

See, I've told you beforehand. He also said, do not judge by appearances but judge with right judgment.

As I reflected upon in the podcast this past week, John 7, 24. Now, the

Apostle Paul said in Galatians 1 and I just read this in church just this past Sunday as we've started our study of the book of Galatians.

Paul said, for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God or am

I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

There is a way that I have to consider how this topic is approached. Right. Speaking gently, correcting opponents with gentleness because that's also the responsibility of a pastor.

Right. 2 Timothy 2, 25. However, those considerations are a matter of wisdom.

What I'm not thinking about is, well, I don't want to turn anybody off with this. Right. If that's going to happen, it's going to be because they hated

God. Right. But I'm thankful for the viewership that we have and it does increase and grow.

In fact, even after our visit to G3 in Atlanta, we attracted more listeners. Yeah. And that's what we were hoping for.

Yes. Being able to connect with people. And help them share the gospel. Right. Help them be equipped to know how to respond to these subjects and issues and use the videos at home or in their church.

Like I was telling quite a few people that sometimes you hit that barrier where you're trying to drive home a point to a loved one usually because they have this filter for you and they're like, yeah, yeah,

I get what you're saying. You're like, I really don't think you're getting what I'm saying here. So you can take that and put it on the video and be like, here, watch this.

Okay, 90 seconds later you can be like, all right, now let's talk. Right. Because this said exactly what I was trying to say.

I just didn't have the right words to get through. With the Bible references in everything. Exactly. Now one other thing, here's kind of a viewer tip in that respect too.

If that's the way that you use the video to help kind of summarize a particular biblical point with somebody. Some of the verses that appear on the screen,

I'm not also saying. So you can go back, like scroll back to that, hit pause and then say, see, look what this verse says and this is what we were talking about.

Right. And then you can see what the Bible actually says on that subject and reflect more on the text than even what was said in the video.

Exactly. Because it's not just in one book of the Bible. It's, there are many different references.

References. I really can't get my words out tonight. It's all right.

It's a little cold in here. It is. So your lips might be a little numb. Maybe. It might be the fact that I've been up since 4 a .m.

too. It could be that. So yeah, it's kind of a belated birthday present to Becky.

I got her a dog. Yeah. It's such a cute puppy. A little puppy that still needs to be taken out and potty trained.

Oh yeah. So Becky was up quite early this morning. Yep. All right. So anyway, Ian, thank you for your question. And again,

Yes, back to the question. We got some stuff about the ministry and everything in there too. So it wasn't all just responding to that question.

Very true. And again, like I said, I was honored by the fact that you took time out of what is obviously a busy schedule for you on YouTube.

Oh, definitely. And watched our videos and sent your email. I hope that that was clarifying and that you are not just simply responding to a feeling that you have in your heart when you contact me, but that you, you're searching for more than a feeling.

Feelings can be wrong and they differ from person to person. So you must search the scriptures and test what I say. That's right.

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly. Colossians 3 .16. The next question comes from Jeremy in Allen Park, Michigan.

He says, Pastor Gabe, what is your stance on biblical slash new thetic counseling? I am getting a minor in this while in college and eventually would like to get certified through ACBC.

So I was wondering where your church stood on it. Well, new thetic counseling, and again, as Jeremy puts in there, also called biblical counseling.

It comes from the Greek word new theteo, which means to admonish or to correct with goodwill.

That's where the name new thetic counseling comes from. Now I will say that I really don't know that much about it except for just, like I mentioned the nuts and bolts earlier.

I know the nuts and bolts of new thetic counseling. That's right. That's about the extent of it. I know that it rejects mainstream psychology and psychiatry and basically regards these things as secular humanism.

And again, the best way to label it, to summarize or understand it is that it's biblical counseling.

Right. If that's what it is, then I'm totally on board with that. I think it's fine. Now in terms of getting an education in psychology or in psychiatry,

I don't know that I'm totally in favor of not learning modern secular psychology because I think that as a psychologist or a psychiatrist in this world, you need to know what's going on in the psychiatric world.

Oh, yeah. So that way you are better equipped to know how to respond to those things. If you have a practice where you have people coming to you seeking guidance or counsel and you have been trained in psychiatry and you've received a degree in counseling, there's a pretty substantial possibility that this person who's coming to you has received counsel already from somebody else.

So do you know what they've been indoctrinated with as they visited that other person who's likely a secular counselor or even a

Christian counselor that has received a secular education in psychology? Do you know how to respond to whatever it is that they've heard?

Or even tell this person, now if you go talk to somebody else about this or the world is going to try to hit you with this and be able to tell them or warn them about here's how the world comes at this subject, but here's what the

Bible says about it. So I would say in that respect, it's practically necessary.

So you don't think that like the dollar bills, you know, you study the real one so well that you know a fake one.

What the real looks like. Yeah, when a counterfeit comes your way. You know it's not real. Right. Just because of that. But you think that it needs a little bit more.

You need to study the counterfeits. Yeah, and they do. Like whenever we use this analogy.

So you study the real money to get really familiar with the real. So when the counterfeit comes by, you know, hey,

I know there's something wrong with that because I've seen the real money. Right. But I've also visited with guys who have done this.

This was their job is to catch counterfeiters. And one guy in particular, he showed me a binder of all of the bills that they had collected.

And it was a big old binder. And it was stuff as silly as like somebody took a piece of construction paper and just wrote a five in the corner, you know.

Wow. I mean, it was stuff that ridiculous. They were trying to get a. I think they were trying to use the soda machine.

That's what it was. Yeah. Probably tried to put it in the soda machine. It was it was stuff that was that silly to the point of stuff that was like so good.

I would not have been able to tell the difference. But, you know, and he's like, now here's what the problem is with this bill. Here's the real one.

Here's this one. You know, all of that was very fascinating. So they are familiar with the tactics that counterfeiters will use so they know who they're looking for, what they're looking for.

They're looking for patterns so they can catch this guy. So that analogy is real good. Being really familiar with the real, but that doesn't mean you don't study the counterfeit.

You do also have to have knowledge of the counterfeit so that you know how to catch the criminals who are trying to pass off this counterfeit bill as being real.

So likewise in psychology, I think it kind of works the same way in a lot of fields. It's going to work this way.

I disagree that the field of psychiatry, even secular psychiatry, has nothing beneficial to offer.

I disagree with that. In the same way that I would disagree with if you go to a secular college to learn rocket science, that you're not learning the right kind of rocket science unless it's

Christian rocket science. Yeah. See, psychiatry is the same way. I think there are beneficial things about the human condition that you can get from psychiatry.

But I do agree that it's largely secularized. Oh, yeah. And it's nonsensical because I'll just give you an example.

There's somebody that I know who's finishing up a doctorate in psychology right now. And I had a conversation with him.

He's not a believer, not a Christian. And he believes that everybody is basically good. And I was a little astounded by that considering the psychology classes

I knew he had taken because I took, what, 15 hours of psychology when I was in college. It was mostly just to fill up, you know, like the electives and then the, what is it, beyond electives that you got to have.

I was just trying to fill up my credits. There you go. But anyway, so one of those classes

I took was abnormal psych. I took that one, too. Did you take that one? Yeah.

And I also had one where we were actually, in the class, we're diagnosing patients. Okay. Not for real.

It's not like they were coming in there and we were diagnosing them. But we're being presented with actual case studies and we're having to come up with a diagnosis.

And at the time, it was the DSM -IV, the Diagnostic Statistical Manual, fourth edition. Now it's the

DSM -V. But so at the time, we were using the DSM -IV and we're going through that. Well, of course, now there's so many more.

Well, yeah. Well, it's because, I mean, on top of that, there's been all of the political and cultural pressure on the

Psychiatric Association to accept things like trans behavior is normal and homosexuality and things like that.

So when that kind of stuff happens, they end up changing their manuals. They have to. That's pathetic. That's one of the reasons why we avoid secular psychiatry.

Exactly. And I tell you not to go to a secular psychologist. But again, with the new thetic counseling, a wonderful approach.

I mean, it's the way that I counsel, even though I've not been professionally trained. You know, I'm just offering counsel as a pastor would give counsel to his sheep as a shepherd would lead his flock.

Whether it's counseling, whether it's leading my kids in Bible study, whether it is preaching a sermon, whatever it might happen to be.

I do all of these things the exact same way, exegetically. It's opening up the

Bible and going through stuff verse by verse and seeing what the Bible says, understanding it in context.

When we get to certain passages that I know other verses from other parts of the Bible would come in, I'm able to bring those verses into it as well.

But the Bible, God's word is what's leading the counseling. Right.

And again, even Bible study with my kids, like some people will ask, how can

I teach my kids the Bible? I understand how daunting a task that is. You got a

Bible that's 775 ,000 words. So where do I start with my kids and how do I teach them?

Especially with how deep things get and how heady you can get with certain doctrines and stuff like that. Right.

And my response to this is generally the same way that I preach. You do it exegetically. You open up a book of the

Bible and you go through it with your kids. And you've heard me say this on the podcast before, too. One thing that I think is important to incorporate into that is catechism.

And that is... Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, right. Trying to put those concepts into words that the kids can grasp.

What is the chief end of man? The chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever.

Now, when we do catechism, we haven't fit it into our Bible study. Becky actually does that with the schoolwork that they do.

That's where they have the catechism portion that they have to do. Boy, that train is loud.

I can hear it in my microphone. Sorry, we got a train. I mean, it's blocks away. We're not anywhere near a railroad track.

But yet, it's really loud now for some reason. I don't know. It's interesting. Anyway, every time

I talk, that horn blast, I feel like somebody's trying to cut me off. I'm trying to talk here. Quiet!

They have to do twice, two horn... for every crossing.

Okay. So, anyway. I knew they had to do horn blasts for every crossing, but I didn't know what the...

It's two. Got it. So, anyway. It depends on your engineer, too.

If they want two short ones or two really long, obnoxious ones. I was saying anyway to come back into answering the question, not to continue to elaborate on trains.

As much as I love trains. If I had the time, I would build a train set. I'm kind of everywhere tonight, so might as well.

What was I talking about? Oh, catechism. Yes. Helping your kids understand those basic fundamental points of scripture.

That's what catechism helps to do. Sometimes it helps you, too. Whenever you're not as trained as you would like to be, it really just lands the plane.

It's like, here's the basic of it. You have all this other stuff that people talk about, but then here's the land, the plane, just sum it up, summarize it in a sentence.

Yeah. The catechism doesn't have to go with what you're studying.

You just have your Bible study. You're focusing on whatever story, whatever book you're going through. Then at the end of Bible study, you say, okay, let's do our catechism.

Today's question is question number da -da -da -da -da. We're going to memorize this. Then you probably conclude with the

Lord's Prayer or something to that effect. That's kind of the way that we do that. Anyway, all that to say that that exegetical style of preaching that we talk about.

Stephen Lawson has built his entire ministry to pastors around. That R .C. Sproul taught. That Dr. James, I almost said

Dr. James Dobson. He doesn't preach. Dr. James White, I could have used that one. There you go. That was the one

I was going for. I was wondering about that. Dobson was on my mind for some reason. I don't know how that popped in there.

I was just watching you say it too. John MacArthur, all the preaching that he's done, exegetical, verse by verse, all the way through the

Bible. Not only is that the model for preaching, but that's the way that we counsel one another, that we encourage one another, that we help to lead our kids in an understanding of the scriptures.

I believe that is the way to go. If that's new thetic counseling, go for it. Yeah. Thank you for your question,

Jeremy. I suppose I just gave my seal of approval on it. I don't have any reason to say there's anything wrong with new thetic counseling.

I guess all of that is to say that I can't totally dismiss the world of psychology as it's being taught even in secular universities.

There are elements of that that are still beneficial. Oh, yeah. Oh, I remember where I was going, how we got sidetracked on this.

So my friend who was taking psychology believed that everybody was just basically good. And having taken enough psychology courses to know that people are really messed up.

Yeah. And see, that's one of the things that even when I was not really well versed in sound doctrine at that particular time, understood the

Bible well, application I wasn't doing as well with at the time that I was in college and I was taking these psychiatry courses.

It was nonetheless, those courses particularly abnormal psych that revealed to me human depravity.

And I remember I just going through psychology textbooks and going people are messed up.

And the study of psychology really is how messed up people are. Right. You don't do psychology to find out how good people are.

You look at the specifics of how messed up they are and then you help them try to recover from whatever damage has been done.

But as you're studying it, you see it case by case. Like it's one person with this disorder and then another person with this disorder.

And it's not like you're not thinking about everybody has something. Well, sure.

In abnormal psych though. But when you take psych one and psych two, that's all general. Very true. And the

DSM -5 is also very general. You're not putting out exact case studies and stuff like that.

Anyway. I don't know. I just, whenever I took it, I was not saved. And I was thinking along the lines of, man, there's a few people that I don't want to run into.

You know? That sounds terrible. Well, sure. But that's how I thought. I don't disagree with that.

So it was interesting. When I was taking psychology, I remember one particular quote from Abraham Maslow.

And he said, I'm not going to get this quote right, but I still remember the statistic. You will correctly diagnose somebody 25 % of the time.

Ouch. So you're talking like one out of every four people you're actually going to get that diagnosis correct.

Hmm. So psychology's not an exact science. No. And it's, a lot of it is theory.

The odds that somebody can go into, especially secular psychology, and come out better than they came in,

I don't necessarily think. Now they can't even give the placebo, so you don't even know if it's a mental thing or not.

Right. Can't do the placebo anymore anyway. Had a story to go with that, but we're going to get off this topic.

Sorry. Anyway, going on. This comes from Amanda in Mississippi.

Hey, what? Listening to episode 861 on John 6, 60 through 63. So if we're to get heavenly bodies,

I talked about how our existence in heaven is not going to be like our existence on Earth. Right. It's not a physical, it's not a physical existence, just we're immortal now.

If we're to get heavenly bodies, why would the disciples recognize the prophets, Moses and Elijah, during the transfiguration on the mountain?

Also, the wicked man recognized the poor man in the bosom of Abraham in Luke chapter 16.

Please help me understand thanks in advance. Well, first of all, what reason would the apostles have had,

Peter, James, and John, what reason would they have had to even recognize Moses and Elijah? They weren't alive at the same time.

Right. It's not like they had Facebook 2 ,000 years ago. Right. Or pictures. Or yeah, like the prophet's yearbook.

It's like, oh, hey look, I remember Moses and Elijah's pictures in that yearbook. And there they are standing with Jesus.

Why would they have even known what Moses and Elijah look like? Yeah. But there was something supernatural that happened on that mountain where the incarnation of Christ was kind of peeled away for a moment.

The flesh that veiled his glory was taken away and the three disciples that were there with him on the mountain,

Peter, James, and John, and heard the voice of God, this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased.

They got the chance to see something with their eyes that we won't get to see until we get to glory.

And somehow, though they were physical and they got to see something just supernatural, spiritual and supernatural right before their very eyes, yet they knew who

Moses and Elijah were. And likewise... It's a God thing. Exactly. It's a supernatural thing.

Yeah. We can't explain that in our natural bodies now just as we can't explain that existence in our natural bodies now.

But there's a day that's going to come when our lowly body will be transformed to be like his glorious body by the power that enables him to subject all things to himself.

And the same with the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke chapter 16. The rich man is sent to a place of fire and torment and he's able to look across the chasm that separates him from the heavenly existence and see that Lazarus is there in a place called

Abraham's bosom at Abraham's side. And he recognizes Abraham. Why would he have had a reason to recognize

Abraham? Yeah. So again, there's something supernatural that's happening there in that transformation that takes place.

We don't know what it is. But it had nothing to do with recognizing

Moses in his physical body or Elijah in his physical body or Abraham in his physical body.

Right. There's something that's gonna be recognized there, but it's not gonna be like, hey, Becky, what's up?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I've always wondered about that too because we know that we get new bodies, but how do you know your family?

Yeah. How are you gonna know your family? Yeah. We've lost a baby before. How are we gonna know our child when we get to heaven?

Those things are wonderful and mysterious to ponder, but we are not gonna be able to draw some understandable answers for that.

Right. At least on this side of heaven. Right. Next question comes from Daryl. Hello, Pastor Gabe and Becky. I think

I have a pretty good stump the pastor question. Ooh. I follow a page on Facebook called the

Reformed Sage. Pretty often, they post fun yet challenging polls for the followers. One recent poll asked the following question.

Jesus Christ, when he took on human flesh, also took on a human soul, not just flesh.

Now along with his divine being and soul is also a human soul.

The end results were very close. Out of 434 votes, 49 .5 % voted yes, 50 .5

% voted no. I was wondering what your input would be on this debate. Thank you for your daily episodes.

They are truly a blessing. God bless you both. So the question basically is, Jesus in his incarnation, he had a human body.

Did he also have a human soul? I believe this question is actually very easy to answer.

Yes. The answer is yes, he had a human soul. Because he was all God and all human. Very God and very man.

Yeah. There was nothing about him that was not man. Right. And again, that's another one of those divinely mysterious things that we talk about.

What gets referred to is the hypostatic union. How was it that Jesus was very God and very man?

How could he be fully God and also fully man? Yeah. I can't wrap my head around that either. Right. And yet he set his divine nature aside, taking on human flesh and became obedient to the will of the

Father, even to the point of death. So how do I know that he had a human soul? Well, just consider this.

If there was a part of Christ's human nature that was not assumed by the

Son in his incarnation, then that is a part of our nature that cannot be sanctified.

Can your soul be sanctified? Yes. Yes, of course. Then Christ had a human soul. So he was -

Makes sense. He entered into life through conception.

He experienced the entire life cycle of human existence from conception to natural death.

And that is why we're pro -life. That is why we fight for the lives of children in the womb.

Because if Christ was a human being from conception to natural death and he was incarnate through that entire phase, then that is a human child from conception to their birth and continues in humanity until their natural death.

That is why we fight for the lives of the unborn. Because Jesus sanctifies and verifies every stage of human development from conception to natural death.

So if Jesus experienced it, we can be sanctified in it. Hebrews 2 .17 says, therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Hebrews 4 .15, for we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are yet without sin.

Here's one last piece of evidence that I present to you as to how you can know the soul of Jesus was a human soul.

Ecclesiastes 12 .7, the dust returns to the earth as it was and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

What did Jesus pray on the cross when he died according to Luke 23 .46? Father into your hands

I commit my spirit. So the spirit, the soul that Jesus had was a human soul and he gave it back to God when he died and breathed his last.

That I believe is the scriptural argument for the human soul of Christ.

Fully man and fully God even to the extent that his very soul was even a human soul.

Right. Next question comes from Eileen in Frigid, Iowa. Oh, so sorry. That's everywhere right now though.

Yeah. Everybody's just cold. Yes, but up there it's a little colder. Yeah. Not really up there though.

They're kind of over there. They're just a little bit to the east northeast of us. It depends on where. Not that far north.

We get pretty cold here. She could be northern Iowa. Now up in North Dakota. Yeah. Where it dropped down to what was the wind chill like minus 64?

Ugh. That's ridiculous. Not breathable. That's right. Yeah, there were people cautioning on, hey, be careful going outside and breathing because you could inhale ice into your lungs.

Yeah. Because your breath freezes like that. That's colder than Antarctica temperatures. Ugh. That's crazy.

Anyway, so we're - That was a cold chill. Let's go back to Iowa so we can be a little bit warmer. Yeah, right. But still pretty cold.

Eileen says, hi, Pastor Gabe. In a podcast I recently listened to you mentioned board games. Do you know of any good adult

Bible centered games? My husband wants me to find one for his birthday. Can you help? Well, my first one

I would recommend. Reffermanda. That's right. The Reffermanda card game from Pirate Christian Radio.

So go to piratechristian .com slash reffermanda R -E -F -F -O -R -M -A -N -D -A

That's a great card game. It is. And it's a Christian card game. Yeah, but it takes a while.

It's one of those like - Couple hours at least. At least. And it's for two to six players.

I think it says 90 minutes on the instructions but it lasts quite a while. Oh, yeah. It always takes us several hours to do a game.

And the more people you have the longer it takes too. Right. Maybe 90 minutes after you've gotten used to it.

But - Maybe. Maybe. So, yeah, that's a two to six hour or two to six hour.

Might be, yeah. Two to six players. Two to six player game. And all of the materials come with the game.

Even the instructions. And we even had teenagers playing with us. Yeah. So, I mean, it can -

It's not just adults. Yeah. If your kids can read they can play it. Right. It's an easy enough game to do that.

Right. But it's challenging enough. Like, it's strategically challenging. Yeah, strategically challenging.

And you get taught some things like heresies to look out for because everything is split into certain categories of heresies.

Anyway, Pirate Christian did a wonderful job with that game. Oh, yeah, they did great. Did a terrific job with that. That's the first one that I would recommend.

Now, we've got a board game that I like playing which is basically Bible Trivial Pursuit. Mm -hmm. And it's called

The Book. Right. And we've got a really old edition of this game. I think that my parents got it.

Very old. Yeah, it was before I was even born. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. All of the cards are in King James.

Oh, funny. That's right. All the verses are King James. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Just like Trivial Pursuit again like I mentioned.

But you can also get, I think there is a Trivial Pursuit Bible edition. I think so. I would recommend that. Now, the thing about The Book is you've got all of the questions are categorized in a children's category.

Mm -hmm. And then there's beginner, intermediate, and advanced. Right. And based on what you roll on the dice as to how advanced the question is that you get asked.

And the advanced is pretty advanced. Oh, yeah. It's pretty hard. It's like asking who was

Eber's second son? Yeah. I don't have any idea. I don't know. Yes. Look that up.

I don't know if that's on Amazon. I've not ever tried to buy it because we've already always just had it.

Yeah. By this point, I think I have the cards close to memorized. But it's The Book? The Book.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And the questions are separated out in New Testament, Old Testament. And it makes it easy for the kids since it has a children's category.

Right. And you can play with them. Right. Exactly. That's pretty awesome. And of course, you're learning as you go.

If you get the Trivial Pursuit Bible Edition, I don't think that there's like a children's category. You're just asking or you're getting asked mostly kind of the same level

Bible questions, but split into different categories like geography or Old Testament or New Testament or Life of Christ or the

Epistles or something like that. I don't remember how they divide all that up. I don't know. Anyway, now I will also throw this out there just because the

Oregon Trail card game. Yeah, that's fun. It's fun. It's not a Bible game, but it's still a fun game.

Yep. And you'll die. Most likely. By like a snake bite or dysentery or something like that.

Yeah, and usually it's at the end. No, you can, your first draw, you might end up dying.

That's true. I think I did once. Yeah. Well, anyway, that's our show for today.

All right. But thank you so much for your questions, everybody. Let's conclude with prayer. Yes, let's. Our wonderful God, we thank you for this ministry to give us the chance to be able to do this online in this way, to teach the

Bible through the Internet, whether it's through videos or through the podcast. We thank you for giving us the equipment to do this, the means to be able to do it and the enthusiasm for it.

On top of that, our love for Christ and a desire to talk about the things of God and help people to understand those things also.

And I pray that you would bless this ministry and bless us, especially in a way that we remain fixed on the gospel, on the sound teaching of the

Word of God. For bodily training is of some value, as the Apostle Paul said, but godliness is of value in every way, for it equips us not just for this life, but we are prepared for the life to come, to stand before God and hear from you, our

Father, well done, good and faithful servant, because we, over the course of our

Christian life, became conformed to the image of your Son, Jesus Christ. And it's in his name that we pray,

Amen. Amen. Which ones?

These? Those are mine. Yeah, they are yours.

These are heavier. Mine are dirtier. Yours look older. Well, I wear mine five days a week.

You only wear yours one day a week. That's true. True. You can't hear the dog.

Great. He'll calm down. How well can you hear him?

I hear him. I hear the dog. Yes, but you can also hear the air kick on, but it doesn't show, or you can't listen to it.

I'm sure as we're talking and we don't put a lot of breath between what we say, you won't hear the dog.

For the first time. Well, I did turn on the dryer, so he's not able to hear us as well.

Yeah, that dryer doesn't drown out anything. It doesn't drown out a lot, but I mean, it's like the fan being on.

What episode is this? 875. And I did turn off all the lights. So we have done 874 episodes without a dog.

Dog bark free. And it's 875.

Now we got to deal with the dog barking. That's all right. A bog darken. He won't bark for too long.

That's what I almost said. A bog darken. A bog darken. It was like right on the tip of my tongue and I recovered.

I'm glad because I'm too tired to recover. So you might have to iron out some things.

That's the magic of editing. Yay. Okay. Arf, arf, arf, arf.