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Joined today on the program by Dr. Josh Buice of Prays Mill Baptist Church and the G3 Conference to talk G3, our upcoming European tour, and things SBC.
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Greetings and welcome to the dividing line. I feel like i'm like uh way out of out of well i just don't like having a camera on me at any time at all to be honest with you. And i think the majority of the people watching don't like that very much either.
The only reason we do a video cast is when i show stuff and and things like that because otherwise i would i would just sort of say yeah let's not bother with that. And we didn't for many many many years and that was probably good.
But anyway welcome to the dividing line. You're going. Wait a minute. You did one yesterday pastor tom buck was in and you all talked about all sorts of stuff but nothing overly controversial. Uh and this is true um but today you'll notice that i'm i'm wearing one of my uh g3 shirts you know and i try to avoid wow you managed to move that.
Well that's pretty cool. How you can do that without actually being in here that that's impressive. Uh that's that's that's that's cool. Anyway i'm wearing one of my g3 shirts because uh g3 is coming up again.
See there's the little thing there and they've got one. It's not the best picture of me but anyways there is uh there's a picture of many people uh on the thingy bobby there and there it says g3 so that's big enough.
Um but uh january sounds like it's a million years away from now but uh given that i will be traveling another 65 ,000 miles or so between now and then uh but uh no it'll be coming up much faster than then.
And i really like the fact that my picture is is right next to michael kruger. Um because that just makes me much smarter uh but then it's right above todd friel so it's that'll end up on youtube somewhere.
But anyway uh um this this uh i would i always when i'm thinking about what i'm going to wear uh because i used to i didn't have to worry about what i wore uh before rich put these cameras in here and stuff i didn't even have to give it a second thought.
But now i do. And so like i don't generally wear like my ebtc shirts or my g3 shirts when i'm gonna be talking about really controversial stuff because i there are so few people who will even be seen in the same room with me anymore that i i have to hold on to the few that will be.
So i've just got to be sort of careful you know rich has to because he's stuck you know it's just it's it. He's sort of doomed but he's he's stuck with it but other people don't. So why would i be wearing it.
Because the boss man's here and uh and and he is sort of the boss man and he's got. I knew he would have a g3 shirt too because you have how many g3 shirts do you have. I have a number of them. You have a number of them.
I have a number of them. But i always get the year afterwards. So so did this year you went with colored um uh stuff. Yes we did. So i get the hand-me-downs in january of this year right. You might end up with this shirt.
So so so josh josh bice. Now what's what's what's the what's the background of that. Because it shouldn't that's that's not. Is that french. You know uh we came from the netherlands. Netherlands. Yeah.
So that's uh it's because that's not i bet you you hear every possible permutation. Yeah it's not to be confused with james p boys or james mcgumber boys. That's right. Or buis or buis or buick or anything else.
Buicky. There are a lot of different ways there. Uh yeah you bet i bet you have to spell it almost every time uh when checking into a hotel or something. But um when did you start the uh the g3 conferences.
We started the g3 conference uh shortly after i came back home to serve the church where i serve presently uh in atlanta georgia just west of atlanta georgia. Um we just wanted to start a theology conference.
Um so it was just before 2013. This was uh 2011 we started praying through the process of starting a good theology conference in the atlanta area and so just praying through what that looked like we came up with the name g3.
Uh just gospel grace glory. We wanted everyone to know from the beginning. This was a theology conference. Uh this is not a pep rally. This is not something you go to to just hang out with religious people.
This is we're going to get down to business. We're going to have 10 to 15 main sessions sermons breakout sessions included. Um you gotta be able to sit around for. Yeah yeah i mean i'll sit around for we have a reputation of being very fast paced.
Um so we like to try to fix that a little bit but at the same time we want to maximize as much as we can through it you know through those three days especially because you're trying to get people to come from long distance.
Absolutely so that was 2011. 2013 was the first year we expected to have a few people come from just outside of the atlanta area maybe a couple states just in the southeast. Uh our sanctuary will seat at our church roughly i mean if you just squeeze people in maybe 800 and we had a waiting list of people to get in.
So we looked at the registration list and it was people not just from the southeast but it was from literally all over the country and outside of the country. And so that was the first four years until 2017 the reformation conference we moved away from the campus as you know to go to the convention center over by the airport where we had roughly 2500.
Right right. Yeah and uh so uh i was at the church twice twice and then this year at the conference center and we did our first pre-conference debate this year. Well attended very well attended very well attended uh with trent horn of catholic answers and um we're we're we're trying to arrange uh a a pre-conference debate this time too yeah and there aren't too many people you can get that do debates very often.
That's uh we're a we're a very odd lot yeah strange group yeah so i'm glad you put up with with the odd odd folks but uh so there's differences going to a convention center i mean aside from the fact that you get a whole lot more walking in yeah uh much much uh much healthier when you get when you finish off because uh but you also uh get to uh have a whole lot more a display area so you had a huge huge number how how many uh people the exhibitors.
Yeah the exhibitors uh i think we had maybe 65 or so and um again that's just word of mouth and that type of thing so if we really pushed it we could have quite a number more but again i mean we the the goal of the exhibit hall is not to just see if we can get 200 of them.
I mean because we obviously could it's to put before people trustworthy resources and good ministries that's the key. Yeah yeah i spent a lot of time over there we were set up next to michael fallon and the sovereign sovereign folks and uh with whom we do a tremendous amount of work and uh um you know as soon as we'd get in there then the line would start forming and you start talking with folks and uh and uh so that that's that's great and uh but we took up a lot of a lot of space a lot of room and uh uh i i just know obviously it's different um to go to the convention it was how how did that change things.
Uh on your end because i mean your your people had to do everything. Yeah they do and that's a huge amount of work to have it on your campus but to even move it away it's still a huge amount of work. Yeah so the you know the church that was the most difficult part of moving to the convention center.
In many ways it was easier for the church because we're not having to do as much work. We wanted to do more than we we were you know we were able to because of the rules and all of the the contracts with food and beverage and all this they they just limit us.
We can't bring in stuff. I mean you get a you get a shepherd's conference and you walk out the doors and you have a thousand people standing there ready to uh you know shine your shoes and hand you an ice cream cone.
You know i mean it's just and so so we're limited as to what we can do. Um at a convention center so that was the most challenging aspect because the church really sees it as a ministry and then you know an opportunity to invest in other believers other churches pastors and so for us that was a really it was a difficult thing for us.
We had a lot of conversations amongst the family you know so to speak within the church to just say look you know we can still accomplish ministry just at a different venue. That's what we're seeking to accomplish.
I see 18 pictures here. Not all of those are main session speakers. Some of them will be just speaking in breakout sessions but trying to uh just maximize the the time. You know over those three days that's just that's just a lot of people.
Yeah it is i i don't i i just i don't go to another conference that has that many people. Yeah well once again we're just trying to do the best that we can as far as being good stewards of the ministry that the lord's entrusted to us.
We want to have as many people come many opportunities. Well again another thing that you didn't mention is the reason you have i think three or four of those will be speaking in the first annual spanish conference this year.
Yeah i just saw the spanish january 17th. Yeah so all day wednesday before the potential debate that you would do on wednesday evening would be all day on wednesday would be in spanish. So q and a we're not doing we're not doing the debate in spanish.
Yeah. No no we're not going to do the debate in spanish. I may live in phoenix but i'm not doing the debate in spanish because i don't actually speak spanish. I german really doesn't do much good here in uh in in phoenix.
But that was what i chose to study. It's great in wittenberg. Yes it is. I will be able to uh there's this there's this great uh pasta place in wittenberg and um you know i was just in right a few weeks ago and let's just say the the the food that was generally available wasn't my favorite.
So uh i hit this pasta place and they actually got to know me over this over the course of the week and um so if we go there i can get you through the menu. Good good. Uh because they don't do they don't do english real well yeah i need a translator.
You need a translator. So so uh the spaghetti bolognese is really really good very good really really good. Um and not overly and not overly expensive either which is sort of sorry nice but anyway um so we've done a couple conferences but we don't do them anymore because they're too much work.
Yeah lots of work. I mean i see you at the end of this and it's it's sort of like when somebody uh when somebody well wait wait wait wait wait wait not not that rich not yet hold on i'll let you know um it's almost like when somebody finishes a marathon.
Yes you know i've done both uh and i know uh you you're a very good runner unlike me who i just sort of plod along but um get you on a bike and maybe we'll be even but uh um but uh you the amount of work is just astounding.
So why. Well again the conference is not to um it's not for us it's not for me it's not for you know namesake or anything of that nature. It's it's a ministry it's to invest in and to further sound biblical theology and methodology in a local church.
So we obviously want to have the benefits in our local church but we want to further that agenda within the you know the evangelical church or southern baptist churches and various other churches who come because you see the g3 conference is not just uh southern baptist i mean we have presbyterians who come we have reformed baptists we have non-denominational we have sbc so we want to see the local church to you know become healthy and so that's the ultimate goal.
But again i just need to be very clear i did not i don't do all of the g3 conference work. Um i have a really oh of course i have a wonderful church and a wonderful staff wonderful elders. We all know where the buck.
Yeah yeah well i mean i mean i have i have a lot of help behind the scenes. I couldn't do it on my own so unlike a marathon where it's like you're the only guy that can finish this um i i do have a lot of help now vody and i can rock the bow ties.
Yeah um but i've i've tried with steve yeah no there is i am now 100 convinced that steve sleeps yeah in his suit i think so he does i've watched him pack before he has a certain routine that he goes through.
And i got i got some new steve lawson stories from wittenberg. Yeah i really did. I can't tell you i'm there though i'll tell you later. They're great. I thought though since i turned 40 today i can start wearing bow ties now.
Yeah well no wait a minute. Yeah not that was an old joke i think. But there there was a shot in there. Yeah because i i don't do you think that has something to do with with h have you told vody this do you realize what vody could do to you without you even seeing it coming.
I would say that with the door open because you figure you might be able to outmove him. Have you seen how fast that man can move i can run i can run longer. So i'll just get up. Well that's true that's true.
He can't catch. That's true that's true. Wow okay that's very that's very well i i should mention that today is a special. I mean we we are just so deeply honored that on today this special day. Yeah your birthday.
Yeah. And rich uh gave me a cup of coffee for my birthday. Well we have something more for you. Oh okay we have something more for you. Rich is bringing it in now i worked really hard on this but um i want you to know how much how much this means this is wonderful because uh can you we can we can see it.
Okay there there we go uh sort of oh there anyway yeah here okay here this let me tell you what this is. Um muscle milk makes some of the yummiest protein bars on the planet. This is one of my very own muscle milk chocolate peanut butter 20 grams of protein.
Uh protein bars. They are sinfully delicious wonderful. And so we we felt you had to have something. So there you go there's your um there's there's no one else could do but we've we've done after all you've done for me all these.
Yeah we give you a protein bar with a candle in it. Right. What would my one wish be. Yes yes. What would my one wish be. Yeah yeah he's thinking about it so i was gonna wait for you to sing and then i would know well you know that would that would probably lose our entire audience if we did that.
So yeah that would break youtube. Yeah yeah. So there you go there you go. Thank you guys you're most welcome. Yeah have you ever had muscle milk. Uh chocolate. Yeah it's good really good. Yeah they protein you know it used to be you sort of felt like you were really doing it because i'm eating my protein and it's horrible but it's good for me.
And now it's just sort of like i'm eating my protein and it's like a candy bar. It's just so good. It's just disgusting it really is. And that was not a paid advertisement by the way i want everyone to understand i am not a paid spokesperson for either muscle milk or quest bars.
Um both of them are just ridiculously good. However in fact you take a quest chocolate chip cookie dough bar 15 seconds in the microwave and it is it's not right. Yeah it's not right. 20 grams of protein.
It's just awesome. Only 190 calories. That's a little bit more than 190 calories. I know that you probably are counting them. Well we have about 26 hour drive home with 13 of us seven children so uh yeah it'll it'll it'll go it'll be used it'll help me.
So so there you go. So 40 i hate i hate to point this out. Yeah um but in a couple weeks i have my 35th wedding anniversary. Nice. So um that that gives you idea. Yes it does. Uh i ain't old enough to be your papa.
Yeah but but i ain't that far away. Yeah there you go. Ain't that far away. So 40 is nothing. Enjoy enjoy your youth. Um i am currently um engaging in that horrific activity of trying to get ready for uh my my july um rides yeah and so uh what is the date today 14th.
I have less than a month. Yeah until uh the triple bypass yeah which is 120 miles 10 ,500 feet of climbing between 7 ,500 and 12 ,000 feet above sea level. Yeah and the next weekend is the assault of mount evans on the rivets for three hours to 14 ,130 feet above sea level and so you ride at like three o 'clock in the morning.
Is that right. Yes yes yes well i'm gonna ride outside. Yeah so i mean you told me that i thought man that's that's crazy. And you know i know phoenix is hot but then when i arrived here um wasn't that bad.
Well i mean i'm well no i mean the heat wasn't uh but i got up early i said i'll get up at 5 30 and go run and it's like sun's already up. It's been up for an hour or. Well no no the sun's rising at 5 30 right now.
Yeah well i mean it was really really light. I mean the sun was already up at uh five o 'clock. I could see the sun at five o 'clock little early because i timed that very very accurately. But the point is once the sun hits you you you've only got there's this there's this awesome scene from uh the chronicles of riddick where this uh this guy named a purifier walks out into the sun on this one planet and it just blows him away.
He just lights up. That's phoenix about a year about one hour after sunrise. So if you're going to be riding you need to be getting home about then. Or it's going to start getting ugly. Yeah i mean i think it's just because you guys must be close to the the time zone change the we don't do we don't.
Yeah i mean i know you don't hear. But what i'm saying is when you when you cross over that that time zone that um the the the sun comes up extremely early here for us in atlanta if i go run at 5 30 it's still dark.
I have to use a flashlight. Not here. Oh i have i have i do i do that too. Yeah actually i do run in the dark at times as well. So yeah we're both committed to that kind of thing. I think look i think it's important.
The problem is 15 years from now much more difficult translate translate yourself 15 years in the future. And getting back in the ability to to function at 14 000 feet above sea level is not easy. But why do we do it.
Well some people would say bodily exercise profit is little. That's what the king james says. But that's in comparison to godliness. And i don't know about you. But um when i'm working hard with goals physically yeah i will work hard with goals mentally and spiritually too correct.
And if my body is sluggish um if i don't do something physical at least my goal this year i know everybody looks at me this doesn't look like that. My goal this year is 750 crunches per day for the entire year 275 000 for the year.
I'm actually above that right now. But that's because when you and i go to europe i normally carry a little machine i put together that helps support my neck when i do crunches. Right. I'm not gonna have time to be putting that together and taking it apart with all the different places we're going.
So i'm gonna lose solid two weeks. Yeah right there. So i've got to try to buffer that ahead so i can catch up with it afterwards. But uh you know that kind of stuff if i don't do something like that like on a lord's day morning i will be a slug.
When it comes to preaching or teaching i will be because this body this body this mind they're connected. Yeah. And we i think some christians have a gnostic idea that you know your spirit's out there someplace and and and no it doesn't it doesn't doesn't work that way.
It doesn't. No and just the the nature of the beast as a pastor do a lot of sitting a lot of reading and so if you know it just you just feel better. I think you preach better. I think that you think better if you can stay healthy.
And i'm certainly not in in as good of shape as i have been in years past. But i'm trying to get in better shape and i just think it makes me it makes me better all the way around. I mean in all areas.
And especially now that you've hit the big forum i know it's all downhill from this point. Well it was actually i had a high school teacher that said it was downhill from 18 so that's it. It was really depressing.
But uh no it it trust me it takes more and more work. It's easier to stay in shape than to get back in shape. So i encourage you to continue to do that. We've never run together because i'd slow you down too much.
Yeah you always have an excuse about it being too cold in january. Uh no that not. My friends in ukraine are laughing at that. Because i ran in ukraine at 19 degrees and i saw that. But i do distinctly remember you saying you had to have a treadmill in atlanta because it was so cold.
The one g the first g3 you came to when it and it was. Well i don't run on ice. I don't run on ice. No no i i have goals and so uh torn up knees acls and stuff. No i don't do not run on ice if it's that cold.
I'm not doing that. No. So anyway speaking of which so we've got so january 17th with the spanish 18th to the 20th atlanta georgia. Uh g3 conference .com. Uh people can uh sign up there. And they need to sign up.
They don't. They don't need to be putting themselves on wait lists and things like that. Uh vote he's coming back over steve lawson. Um do you have you have all the things that steve needs ready to go.
The absolutely the burgers without cheese. And what's actually uh only mustard. Yes so it's it's typically a turkey sandwich with sun chips vitamin water. There you go. And i thought i was picky and uh and paul still still plan on being there.
Paul washer's doing uh much better. Uh spoke with him actually just texted uh just a couple of weeks back and he's he's improving uh and so things are going well with him. Yeah. Well i know my dad had a quadruple bypass a couple years ago and was like changing the the it's like it's like refurbishing the you know he's i think coming up on 80 85 now and made a huge difference a huge difference.
But you know the thing that bugs me is i saw him shortly before the heart attack. He was at the tmi symposium that i was speaking at uh before the shepherds conference and it was because he told me what the doctors had said that i didn't see it.
If i if he had walked into that room and he didn't tell me what doctors had said it was i'd have got dude you've got a blockage someplace there's what i can you know i had seen this before. Yeah. Well when someone tells you i've seen the doctors doctors say it's this thing over here then it's like okay fine you know.
And it's like ah but i've been telling him he will tell you at g3 you were there when he walked up to me and i had to i had to steady him because he wanted to tell me what was going on in africa in regards to islam.
And i you've heard you've heard me tell him brother you've got a young daughter. Don't give me the the charles spurgeon i'm going to burn out at a young young age type thing. Um i don't buy it. So i i would i can honestly say i was trying to tell the guy dude at that point i will say we met again the shepherds conference um shortly after the g3 and um he was already canceling things at that point.
Yeah he told me that he was supposed to be i think um he was supposed to be in geneva. I mean uh in vandenberg. Yeah so so there you go. So he was pulling back already at that point but but not fast. Praise god he's doing much better.
Good good. So we look forward to to seeing him. And i would i just can't wait to see him at full strength. Yeah because we we haven't seen paul washer at full strength for a long time. Yeah we really haven't.
And michael kruger um i i know it bugs him when i say this and it's a little bit easier for me to say this because he's younger than i am uh but uh just one of the most brilliant minds in the church today.
Really really is. And i don't know how it fits in how we can make it fit in to the topic but if there's some way to get him to talk about canon issues there there yeah so few people can address that topic and he is just brilliant in that area.
Yeah he definitely is. He's a gift to the church and we would love to get the two of you to sit up and do maybe a a q a session or just a discussion on these matters. Well especially what he and i could do is is early manuscripts.
Because i'm working on p45 he's done so much work in that whole general area uh that those early manuscripts we could put together we could put together pictures uh you know there's so much great high-end digital photography now of the early papyri and i've just found it's amazing.
Maybe it's just because we have geeks that uh that watch this program all the time. But i've found a lot of christians that are just fascinated. Yeah when they get to actually see the manuscripts instead of a little note at the bottom of the page it says some manuscripts say this there there's p45 there's p66 there's p75 wow p75 and codex sinaiticus both come from the same line they go back into the first century uh in in their text and wow this is amazing stuff and a lot of people you know when when i debated bart bart ehrman he just so condescendingly oh yeah uh says to the whole audience i doubt anyone could really understand what we were saying and it's just like oh yeah uh people really do love it and i was just teaching in the czech republic um and one of the things they wanted me to speak on was the textual critical stuff.
Sure and so there's just so little of that. So it's it's important stuff and we'll get a chance to do that. So there's there's but you're you're you've got a little something to do before g3. Yeah yeah we do and it's only a matter of weeks away literally um and that is we're going to uh to europe and um we haven't i don't have a clue how we're going to handle this stuff.
I have a feeling it's going to be sort of stream of consciousness type thing uh but we're going to be going all over the place and people are going to be looking at you and me to somehow provide some kind of background.
What scares me is you'll frequently have people on these tours that know more about these places than we do. So but we have to look we have to make it look good. Yeah how are we going to do that. Well we're going to study we're going to read.
Okay. Well i've been doing that for a long time but yeah yeah yeah yeah. But still we'll be uh well prepared looking forward to that. It's just going to be a wonderful thing to walk in the footsteps of the reformers.
People say why do you go to europe and walk in the footsteps of the reformers. What's the big deal. I mean it's you know it's the 500th anniversary. Yeah that's a big deal. But why go to all the trouble and go over and make this journey.
Um i think that it's like um you know for instance going to israel or going someplace like that. I mean it puts things into perspective when you think about going to verms in 1521 and you go to uh where luther literally came into verms.
And this i mean the streets are filled with people just want to see this guy and they have to sneak him in and just think about standing at that very place where he gave his stand and he which is now it's just a placard on the ground on the ground you have to get the leaves off of.
Yeah but i mean which which says something about europe as a whole. Yeah dude. Well it does. I mean parking place number 23 and things like that. So that's exactly right. That's exactly right. Well i was just in vittenberg and and you'll be proud of me since there weren't any bikes around.
Um mike abendroth was there and he actually found a bike. But it was one of those you know um but uh i got up every morning i ran. I was the only person that got up every morning and ran. And i by the way i'll be able to show you the smoother areas to run in rather than running those cobblestones is dangerous and not easy on on the body.
But uh you know running past the the castle church and seeing well seeing all the you know they're preparing obviously for the all the lutherans are going to show up. Right. Um things like that but just thinking running past where the where exerge domine was burned.
Yeah okay there was. There's a path that goes right down and and over toward lutherstadt right there and it's just it's like yeah that's that's where it happened that's that's fascinating. And running running past the luther house and realizing that right inside there it's gone now but was the little room that luther had and you can sort of to people to where it was uh though it's not there any longer uh and it's sort of like it all happened.
You know it really happened. And then of course one of the things we're gonna have to keep explaining to people is the fact that you and i probably uh would have been in deep trouble. Yeah in wittenberg by as early as 1525.
Absolutely. Um and that really causes people angst and cognitive cognizant cognitive dissonance dissonance. Um whatever it is uh it's just like no wait a minute how can i how can i enjoy visiting the castle church or the luther house and stuff like that when at the same time what you're basically saying is yeah.
Well when you go if we go to the we go to the varper. Yes. Yeah. And so we'll get to see um where he was hiding. Not only where he was hiding but where a man who refused to have his children baptized was imprisoned in a tiny cell for eight years till he died.
And people go. Well i can't learn from somebody or honor somebody that would have done that. See and that's going to be for me anyways that's a that has to be a constant theme is that we have to learn how to read church history be balanced and allow the people of history to be the people then and not judge them by the standards that we have today.
Or you're not going to find almost anybody in church history that you're going to have a particular love for. Right. Right. I think. And that's one of the the beautiful things about the scriptures if you read how the holy spirit inspired the word of god you see that there's it's not just wonderful things that we see about people like king david we see some really bad things that he did.
And so i think that that's a misconception about people sometimes is they say well you guys are making calvin and luther out to be just these unblemished heroes. You're following them. That is not what we're attempting to do.
Close. Yeah even close. Not even close. No uh we we will. I certainly i bring to any discussion of church history issues things like that. Uh obviously my apologetic concerns. Right. And so folks will probably end up with much more of a education on what rome believed then and now than they may be looking for.
But the reality is if we look at any of our confessions of faith if we look at uh it recently i i taught through the section on the lord's supper in the london baptist confession and almost any of the major sections of the london baptist confession or the west mystery confession will have a specific statement not like the papists say and and the very language is being used forged in a context of controversy.
And if you don't if you don't know what was believed at that time then you're not going to really have much of an understanding of why there was such an emphasis upon this. Or and the scary part is a lot of people today think that what they believe they just simply got from the bible.
When the reality is they've been deeply influenced by what happened in church history. But they don't know it. And if you don't know it then you're controlled by it. If you don't know history then what happened in history controls you and you have no way of filtering it out.
If you know history then you can see where those influences came from. But unfortunately for most people well for most non well including roman catholics that roman catholics like to say we're the champions of church history.
You talk to most roman catholic they have no clue about church history. But but they will say you protestants church history began with martin luther for you in some senses unfortunately for a lot of baptists it actually starts with billy graham.
I mean let's just be honest ourselves um uh that that that's that's the reality. And so uh realize coming to realize that god's actually been building his church. Yes amongst people that dress differently differently than me and and that that spoke different languages than me.
That's one of the things i've loved about games you know i've become a world traveler. I mean i hate to tell you this but one if we i'm not sure where we're flying to. Yeah but if we go through heathrow i'm gonna be waiting for you guys.
Yeah because i'm a registered traveler now. Oh really. Well my my passport eu line straight on straight on through. I'm gonna be speaking at another conference in france just before our tour. So i'm getting the shame.
I'm getting the shame wag finger from the other room. Yeah uh for what i just did so you're going you're going to. I'm speaking at another conference in france just before the tour starts. So i'll meet you guys in berlin.
Okay all right. Well i don't know i'm sure that mike is probably going to be watching this maybe even watching this now. Um but if mike really likes me in fact if he loves me and mike and i have been through a lot together we really have i've known him longer than you have.
Yes you have. Um but but it's possible that um see there's this thing on my bucket list and and he knows about it and it it's we're going to be close enough that um i i has hasn't mentioned it he has.
And i i have a game plan of of my own as well. Oh okay i'm going to be one of those crazy guys that runs alongside you know and carrying the side. Yeah yeah yeah what superhero costume are you. I don't know.
I'll just have to i'll let my son pick it out. Now we gotta tell everybody because everybody's going you can't leave something like that blank because knowing the people who detest me they'll fill it in with something.
But i uh i really really really want to ride l 'alpe d 'huez. Um l 'alpe d 'huez is of all. And the tour de france is coming up here in a few weeks. And for those of us who are cyclists tour de france is a three-week-long super bowl which is really cool when you think about it it's a three-week-long super bowl.
We just had giro d 'italia that was really good and i actually love the vuelta a españa which is in august. Um but the tour is the tour is the tour. And of all the climbs you've got mount mount ventoux i would love to do ventoux someday that would be awesome.
And um there's just some incredible incredible climbs but the granddaddy the the one of them all um is the climb of l 'alpe d 'huez. And uh we're gonna be close enough that maybe just maybe i'd have to rent a have to rent a bike and i'm sure there's lots of places that rent bikes there.
And but um climbing i mean i even have i even have a program on my ipad yeah where i can climb l 'alpe d 'huez on video and since i'm on a smart trainer so it's bluetooth connected all the rest of that stuff it records all that stuff and it actually puts it on gps map.
So when it records up to strava it looks like i actually climbed l 'alpe d 'huez. It's it's fake but it it is the actual the actual thing a gps satellite behind it. But that's not quite the same. No ipad is just not quite the same as uh as actually getting to climb l 'alpe d 'huez.
I would love to have that opportunity if it doesn't work out i recognize you know that's that's life um but uh you and i also are going to be doing some preaching yes on on this trip some really unique opportunities.
I mean mike has done a great job. And for those listening that think that well you know i could just go and do my own tour through these places. They have no idea of the work that goes into something like this and planning it out and they will not get the opportunities.
No no no no mike has mike i don't know how he does it but he has connections that a lot of other people would have no idea. And so uh i'm there are a couple of places we're gonna be speaking at. You realize that we're gonna have to wear the uh you know the appropriate yes clothing yes going back in the ages.
So we're gonna look a little bit like calvin. Yeah put the put the gown on. Yep yep yep yep so it's gonna be incredible. And uh people can still sign up come along with us. Um uh you would think i would have well obviously alman .org there's a big old banner ad and and you can um you can click on that get all the information and i'm sure if you called uh sovereign uh i'm not sure who you end up talking to.
You probably rather talk to kathy um than you know that other guy that's um that's uh we keep getting stuck with ryan ryan that's as i tell you for ryan we love ryan. Uh ryan ryan is so much fun to uh to we the last cruise we did uh he was he was on with mike and uh but uh every time i try to get ryan to run with me doesn't work.
Now i have pictures of me and kathy running in london. I've seen that uh so uh we could you know. But ryan just comes up with the most enjoyable reasons as to why he's not going to get right. Well well and in fact last time we have a picture of me and kathy running on on on the bridge where the attack took place.
Not the last one but the one before that very spot very spot where it happened. Um and then i took a picture of me selfie at that spot frowning with big ben the background. Because i was there and they weren't there and i didn't get to run.
That was one week to the day from that that attack one week in the day of course that was i was running at sunrise. Yeah and i was the only person out there. So any jihadi dumb enough to attack at that point.
Zero results. Um they don't get up quite that early in the morning. So uh yeah uh but uh yeah so i'm looking forward to it and um uh the opportunities to learn and of course fellowship is going to be great and all that kind of stuff too.
But um we're really looking forward to it. So you've got you've got i'm not sure you want you want to have a competition as to who has the busiest time between now and the next year you will win. But there's no doubt there's no because i've got our stuff.
Yeah but that will be only a matter of weeks after get back from london and johannesburg and durban uh which is in august. And then we've got uh europe in september. In october i'm doing dallas twice and then mike has this conference in washington in uh at the beginning of november.
Uh so uh other than one trip in december i might actually be but this year i will be out of the country one out of every six days. Oh well and that's just that's just we've got to cut that back next year we've just got to cut that back.
That doesn't mean i'm not going to go out but i think we're going to do is we're going to do one mainly teaching trip to europe. Um and then we're actually going to do we're going to we're actually putting together a global one global trip so phoenix london london joeberg joeberg sydney yeah uh possibly new zealand and then back across so it would literally be around the globe.
Yeah i mean if you keep it up you'll be like steve lawson you'll be uh in a new city with a new group of people getting a picture every day. Just about yeah just about uh but like i said uh his his trip to wittenberg was a little interesting.
Yeah poor guy flameless late and uh the guy even managed to lose his wedding ring on the flight. Oh wow i don't know i do know how you do that. Yeah you you take you take the ring off to wash your hands and stick it on something.
And then i don't. Well we went to we went to europe together last year and he showed up without his luggage. So that's not good. Did you know. I let me show you uh when we get done here i i have i have purchased a luggage tracking device and i love seeing those.
I love landing in johannesburg and it pings and we are taxiing and my phone goes off it says your luggage is in johannesburg south africa. So now what's really bad is if you land and your luggage is in paris france.
Okay now that's when you know 800 miles you automatically know. Okay i i'm not even i'm not even gonna have to sit there and wait because the neat thing is not only does it do that but you can switch over to bluetooth and it'll say your luggage is 50 feet away.
No it's just 40 feet away. And then you're just watching up there it is there it's coming that is that is brilliant. I gotta admit that is geeky but it works when you travel you want to know your luggage is actually to get there.
Because i've lost i i've gone to yeah it's just not a good thing. Well my wife works for one of the major airlines in the central baggage area. And so the first time that my luggage got lost i call her and she was she had just started doing.
She got all excited because now she got to get to use the the programs all the rest of that stuff. I'm like i'm not nearly as excited as you are dear. Really i'm not but i am you know. And then a few months later once she sort of got used to it her luggage got lost.
I said so dear you as excited as you were last time. And she no no she wasn't wasn't at all. Which device is it's called lug lock. L-u-g-l-o-c. Someone on in channel is asking lug lock and it works.
I mean uh and i forgot to turn it off and i got back this last time. So day before yesterday i kept my phone my phone pinged. I'm like what it says your lug lock device is in phoenix and it's only got 10 battery left because it's out in the storage room.
I i left it in the in the in the in luggage i've got shirt. I was like oh okay i i better i better go rescue it from the heat because you don't want to leave that in the phoenix heat. That's for sure uh but they really do work.
They really yeah that's nice. I would highly recommend it's a it's a minor investment for that that level of peace of mind. Oh absolutely it really really really is so anyways so um in the few minutes we've got left um what happened uh with the penal substitutionary atonement thing.
Uh did that pass. It did um is the the thing is these resolutions. So i just i just left everybody in the dust there we just we just left everybody with a with a neck ache. We're sitting here talking about europe.
Back to the southern maps convention which is ongoing right now. There was a um there's difference between a resolution and a motion. This was something it didn't go through a committee or something so i guess it's less binding or something.
I'm not really sure how it all works on the importance of penal substitutionary atonement correct. Um um again i mean these the southern baptist convention is extremely um it's like a it's like a cruise ship or uh an aircraft carrier.
It's just it's it's massive it's large. Um it's like it turns very slowly turns very slowly um takes a lot of gas. It really does. And so there's we could carry this along a lot farther than you want to carry it.
Probably so um but but you know people say well you know if you believe what you believe or the the the things within the sbc that you don't like for instance or that you would criticize um how can you remain in the sbc.
Uh with those particular things happening. I would just say that number one um i've been a southern baptist my entire life i'm not ashamed to be a southern baptist but what i would say is that again it's like a massive family reunion and so you have the crazy uncles that show up and you just don't you know you get your plate and you don't want to sit down next to them or you know it's kind of like a game it's like you're going to watch where he sits so that you don't have to end up sitting next to that individual and that's the way that the sbc works.
But they always end up at a microphone. Very interesting definition of unity. Yes. Yes well i mean we are family but we don't always get along with everyone and that's just the way it works. But you know resolutions.
So the southern baptist convention has a long history of having resolutions and recommitments and things of that nature on various different things. There was actually another one on the the reformation actually this year and uh well just just going back to yeah i mean but but again it's encouraging to to at least see that the convention a lot of people throw rocks at the sbc because again it's really easy it's a big target the crazy uncles stand out above everyone else usually and so they and again you have a lot of politics involved in the sbc but that being said a focus on a recommitment to stand on the principles of the reformation and to stand on the doctrine of substitutionary atonement is a very good thing.
Sure. The problem is i don't really think that that's possible. For instance um how do you have a resolution that upholds substitutionary atonement. And then you have this weird vein of quote unquote traditionalists that would not necessarily uh stand lockstep on the doctrine of subs but even one of but but one of the authors of that is a traditionalist correct.
So we would look at that and we would go. Okay but the only way to consistently hold that is if you recognize the personal nature of the union of the elect with christ. But they just they don't that kind of connect that kind of connectivity.
Yeah it just isn't there. Yeah i mean you know as well as i do um anytime you're debating or talk talking about anything as far as theology goes it's all about definitions and it's all about what dictionary that you're using.
So the problem is one of these people might be using one set of terms and definitions whereas someone else is using a different dictionary altogether. Yeah. Yeah most definitely most definitely. Well so did you go to the connect 316 breakfast this morning i was actually busy um and wasn't able to make that one.
So okay. Yeah because because someone had suggested to me that i should i should gate crash that one. Yeah because that would have made it the most memorable. Yeah um connect 316 breakfast ever. Yeah.
Yeah i mean i i did suggest yeah security security i did suggest that we do this interview. Um that's right uh live interview at the convention would have gotten quite the interesting uh audience but we don't really have the facilities to do that and i think we would have had to have requested that a long time ago.
Yeah um and i don't know that how positively the reaction i'm not sure what kind of positive reaction we've gotten. You know i think that the southern baptist convention is very diverse and so i thought it was a wonderful opportunity for you guys to join the sbc this year.
How do you how i didn't know that uh that parachurch ministries can can know you and your church. Uh you know i think my fellow elders might have a really uh some some questions about that. We're not big in joining stuff.
Yeah you know we're sort of yeah but again i mean people do ask and they say you know why is it that you would stick around in an sbc and and they ask me and then they ask a lot of the the younger pastors that might be more sympathetic with the things that i'm passionate about and i would just say you work with who you can work with and i see a lot of people.
I see a lot of things that i could sit here and complain about within the sbc but then on the other side of the fence just to be balanced i see some really healthy things as well. So i really uh appreciate what i see happening at southern seminary with al moeller.
I really appreciate what i see happening with you know tom askew and founders ministries. I appreciate what i see happening with nine marks ministries and the emphasis on discipleship and mark devor. And so there's lots of people that i can work with and that i can help support and just you know try to cooperate with who i can work with and try to further an agenda that would bring about health.
Did you hear anything about. Um i saw some pictures uh of some uh billboards downtown. Yeah uh was there any talk about uh the homosexual issue. Yeah i mean there were driving mobile billboards that were just circling the blocks.
Uh one of them was like 40 or 48 i can't remember the stat but of all teens in homeless shelters are lgbtq. And again i mean you just throw these stats out and it's like someone said well what's that trying to say.
I guess it's saying that we should be more sympathetic. It's our fault we're pushing these people that direction but at the end of the day i mean you can twist a stat to say almost anything you want it to say.
Yeah so but again these people show up there's always going to be someone showing up to stand out and protest. Well especially this particular you know this particular time period in our in our nation's history and our cultural decline.
Um there had been a fair amount of discussion of these folks showing up and trying to in essence shame anybody who would not be a part of the lgbtq uh revolution. And in light of what's been going on in in ottawa uh in illinois recently uh where you know in ottawa your children can be taken from you if you're not on board with the with the revolution.
It's just it's just unbelievable. What's what's going on. Um it just seems like that's going to become a regular part. Yeah and uh i just i just wonder uh have there been resolutions or um you know may not want to play around with the baptist faith and message.
But does the baptist faith and faith and message have a strong clear uh enunciation of what marriage is what human sexuality is that god creates man male and female. These are good things. Uh you know transgenderism is now the cause.
Celeb. Yeah and you have to accept gender fluidity and all the rest of stuff. Uh if it's not there yeah be getting hit right left and center. I'm sure that we'll see a you know a discussion that will eventually happen you know related to that issue in the future that would be to beef it up some but even with us you know in our local church we've had to amend our bylaws to add statements about you know family and human sexuality just to protect us.
Because we want to be very clear uh we are not an affirming church uh on any level and that goes with any of the the things that we do as a church so we have you know various different ministries and we don't want people coming in thinking they can just sign up to help.
This is not a humanitarian type of organization here this is a local church right. And we have certain doctrinal convictions and beliefs and we um have these governing uh documents that we can put our finger on and say this is who we are.
And you know yes we love people and we want to tell people of the hope that we have in jesus christ obviously but at the same time just for legalities we have to be very clear as to where we stand on these things.
It's just painfully obvious that these groups want to force the issue by trying to become involved and and so out of you at g3 just that outside didn't know if any had shown up for the convention any any big gathering is gonna yeah you're always that's just the way it's gonna be.
Well josh thank you very much happy birthday. Enjoy your uh your your wonderful uh gift uh did you did you keep the because he may not want to eat it now. But i mean you're probably gonna have to uh we'll just eat that.
But uh uh appreciate your stopping by and it's i guess we'll be seeing you in just a matter of a matter of weeks. And if everybody wants to come along make sure to hit the websites get the information join us in on the reformation tour and uh what that camera or that camera or that it doesn't matter thanks for joining us on the fine line today.
We'll see you next time. God bless.