The Enneagram and Evangelicals

Expose the CCP

The Conversation with Senator Podcast, I'm your host, John Harris.

Last night, I went to an event I need to share with you. Before I get started with anything else, I'm just thinking about it. I went to a panel discussion on the Chinese Communist Party and the threat that this party poses to the United States.

It was very interesting. And it was probably about two hours long, an hour of talking and answering pre-written questions. And then it was audience questions. So I was in the audience and I asked a question about why don't we hear a lot about this from mainstream conservative news outlets, and especially from the more evangelical-leaning news outlets, or those focused on politics who are evangelical.

It's just not on the radar that much. And so here's the funny part. One of the panelists, actually, I had already mentioned Trevor Loudon, that I was going to be making a documentary. I was in the process of making a documentary on the threat of the Chinese Communist Party.

And Trevor Loudon was one of the people that I was working with. And so the interesting thing is, one of the panelists says to the entire audience, and this is, again, a secular, if you wanna call it that, political meeting.

She says, oh, Trevor Loudon's great. You need to go see his documentary, Enemies Within the Church. And I'm sitting there. I don't know if she recognized me from the movie, but she said it about three times, that you need to go see Enemies Within the Church.

It's really eye-opening. And then she proceeds to share a story. And she shares the story of being at an event with Trevor Loudon, and she didn't say where it was. She said it was a Christian institution.

I knew where it was. It was Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary. And she said Trevor Loudon was scheduled to speak, and he did speak, and he was scheduled to present the documentary, Enemies Within the Church, and they stopped it.

They prevented him from doing it. And she said, to Trevor Loudon's credit, he got up there, and he called them out for it, and he made somewhat of a stink about it, but he was bold and courageous and all that.

And I just, I'm sitting back there, and I thought, wow, this is so interesting to me, because secular, political meeting here on the threat of the Chinese Communist Party, and to some extent, how that's related to the indoctrination in our schools and communism as a threat more broadly.

And here she's mentioning something that happened at Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary. It stuck out in her mind from over a year ago now, and how Trevor Loudon was prevented from sharing the film, Enemies Within the Church.

And I thought that was so, I don't know what it is about it. It just, it was the merging of two worlds. I wasn't expecting to hear that at a more secular venue. But there are people watching, as J .D. Greer likes to say, the watching world, right?

And in this case, who was pushed away from, in this case, I would suppose, Southern Baptists or Evangelical Christians? Who was pushed away? I'm putting on the framework that J .D. Greer and Tim Keller and others like to put on.

We need to be winsome, we need to be compelling, we need to be welcoming, we need to be inclusive. Who felt excluded? Who felt like they weren't being acknowledged? Their opinions weren't valid, they weren't being reached out to?

Their opinions didn't matter? It was political conservatives. And I don't even know if I wanna say the individual's name, just because I don't want her to get a lot of messages. I don't know if she would, but just in case.

She hasn't given me that permission. But this is someone from the political conservative world who noticed what took place at Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary, and it disgusted her, and it should.

And anyway, some of you don't know what I'm talking about, and I covered it in a podcast over a year ago now, and you can go check that out. It's just, to me, I wasn't expecting that. But waves are being made in various places, and that was one of the places that I didn't expect to see it.

The Chinese Communist Party as a Real Threat

Well, anyway, welcome once again to the Conversations That Matter podcast. If you wanna support the China documentary, the documentary on the Chinese Communist Party that I'm involved with, you can go to the link in the info section, and I would greatly appreciate your support.

This is crowdfunded, and there's a whole story behind why it's crowdfunded. It's something that I am convinced, after doing some of the research for a previous project, needed to be done, and it was, a lot of the work that we had put in to putting a documentary out there is, let's just say the institution that wanted it done no longer wants it done.

And it's too controversial, it's too hot to handle, and we think that the information needs to go out there. You need to know how the Chinese Communist Party has affected and impacted a lot of things negatively in this country and across the world.

And there's this sort of debate, I guess, going on. I see it in some of the comments when I talk about this, that China's just a paper tiger, they're collapsing, their economy's terrible. There's some truth to some of that.

In fact, that was discussed in the panel discussion last night. Doesn't mean that they are not exceptionally dangerous, even with a bad economy. It doesn't mean that just because they rely on us, and we do rely on them to some extent, that does not mean that they are not dangerous, and that their military force doesn't pose a threat, and that their Belt and Road Initiative and colonization efforts, and influence on the WHO, and the World Economic Forum, and all these other places, that that doesn't pose a threat.

It certainly does, and I think it's way underestimated. So anyhow, that being said, you can go to the link in the info section if you're interested in contributing to that particular effort. I wanna talk today about the Enneagram, the Enneagram a little bit.

This is a little bit outside of my wheelhouse, right? I don't talk about personality tests, or psychological issues all that much, but I'm realizing more and more that this is not just popular, but this is important, because there is currently an attack on biblical counseling, newthetic counseling, if you wanna use the older word.

There's an attack on that. It's people who think the Bible is sufficient to counsel soul matters are somehow causing abuse. They're missing things that they would see if they had an expert background in psychology.

And this is happening while, at the same time, the Enneagram is becoming extremely popular in Christian circles. In fact, when I Googled Enneagram, on the first page of Google, I can't remember if I was using DuckDuckGo or Google, whatever search engine I was using, the first page was filled with Christian ministries, and this was not even an attempt of mine to find out what Christians think of it, but Christians are certainly buying into this more than a lot of other groups, maybe any group.

Same thing on YouTube. If you type in Enneagram, you're gonna come up with a lot of Christian-related content. So I think it's important to talk about this, and some of my thoughts are not 100 developed on this.

I'll be honest with you. I am trying to understand, to the best of my ability, what's happening, but I think I have some observations that you'll see is outside the box, meaning that they're not the conventional ways that Christians who are opposing this perhaps are thinking about it.

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Go today and pick up some Beard Balm, Beard Oil, or Beard Products. All right, well, let's get into the Enneagram. There's a lot going on right now, I know, in the Southern Baptist Convention and in Christianity as a whole, and in fact, I got an inbox full of things going on concerning Saddleback Church and concerning the Johnny Hunt suing the Southern Baptist Convention, and there's just a lot, but I think we need to focus on this right now because I don't wanna be a slave to the news cycle.

Just so people who listen to this podcast understand my rationale. There are things that matter and there's things that don't, or there are things that I've learned it's best to wait on until there is a cumulative amount of information and I can give you something that is helpful.

Sometimes when these stories break and they're new, the story hasn't really been given enough time to develop, and maybe that's more the historian in me than the journalist in me. Some things need to be shared right away, but some of the issues that I know some of you care about and want me to share about, I'm aware and I will hopefully do that to the best of my ability when I have a chance, but to me, this is more evergreen.

This is something that, at least for the next few years, I think we're gonna be contending with, and I wanna dip my toe in. I wanna give you some thoughts, and maybe the comments that come in and your reaction will help me think through this better and we can put out some even more material, but I have some preliminary things to share with you, and so this will help those who don't know what the Enneagram is, and hopefully it'll help those who do know what the Enneagram is.

Let's start here, if I may.

Not there, let's see.

I have a slideshow for you that has some of the information I wanna share. So this is a picture of the Enneagram, and there's multiple, if you go online and you Google this, there's multiple variations of this.

I mean, the thing they have in common is that there are nine different personality types and they're organized in different fashions. There are different tests that you can take that are supposed to tell you what type you are or types you are, and there's types and there's subtypes, and it can get extremely complicated.

This is a very basic chart, and I wanna start off basic. There are nine personality types according to the Enneagram. Now, you might be thinking this is like Myers-Briggs, this is like some of those other tests.

In a sense, I suppose, it is similar, but when I was listening to secular Enneagram coaches talk about this, they were very adamant it's not like the Myers-Briggs, that this gives you a greater window into yourself than Myers-Briggs does, that Myers-Briggs is more observational and the Enneagram is more motivational.

So Myers-Briggs can tell you something about yourself based on your habits and questions that are asked about your habits and your preferences, whereas the Enneagram, although it does do that to an extent, it is supposed to give you a more holistic understanding, a total understanding of who you are, what motivates you, and that will in turn show you why you do the things you do or I suppose what your great strengths and your weaknesses are.

And so it's more, I get the impression you're more locked into your Enneagram type than a lot of the proponents of Myers-Briggs. But I think, here's the thing, this is John Harris's opinion, I think they can both be used in very similar fashions.

So I'm not about splitting hairs as much. What I think is interesting though is those who seem to be the most adamant about using the Enneagram, they have very fully formed opinions on this and they, for some reason, many of them, want to separate it.

And the reason is because the Enneagram has more explanatory power or more insightful analysis of the deep part of who you are. And to me, that ties in more directly to a spiritual component, which we're gonna get to here.

The Enneagram's Mystical and New Age Origins

So what's the history? Well, there's alleged history. And I think I need to frame it that way because this seems to be a story that's told that is not perhaps entirely accurate, but this is where some of the inspiration supposedly comes from.

In 399, or the late 300s AD, Evagrius, who developed the seven deadly sins, I believe he was one of the desert fathers, a mystical kind of monk, believed there were eight different kinds of monks, i .e. eight different personalities.

That's not nine, but that's eight, right? And this is alleged, again, that Raman Lal, who lived in the 1200s, believed there were nine different qualities of God. So there's the nine, and that God had these, and you're gonna, by the way, see this in a moment as I play for you an evangelical who is basically saying the same thing using the Enneagram to say it, that there are these nine different aspects or parts of human nature, that the image of God, if you will, and that Jesus was all of them.

And then you have George Gurdjieff, who is probably the father of this more than anyone else, I would suppose, but there's still some question about where he got it from. But he allegedly discovered the Enneagram at a Sufi monastery, Sufis are mystical Muslims, in Afghanistan.

And he taught the diagram, he taught that the diagram taught sacred knowledge. So we don't have any personality types yet, but we just have this pattern, that there's this, if you will, a principle to the universe, like there are laws of physics and motion, there's this law called the Enneagram, and they didn't call it that, perhaps, but there's a pattern to life that is in nine.

Nine is a sacred number, nine, there's nine aspects to humanity. And so it's starting off with this assumption, this presupposition that, it's really a religious presupposition, I guess, you could say, even though, I mean, you see Muslim mysticism, you see Christian mysticism, supposedly being the motivators or the inspiration for this.

And so there's this religious aspect. Now, is this biblical? Well, no, you're not gonna find this in the Bible. I mean, the closest, what do you come to in Revelation? The seven spirits of God. I mean, that's the closest I suppose you come to.

And I think even that understood rightly is not anything close to what the Enneagram is purporting. Well, here's the more recent history. This is actual history here. Oscar Echazo, who died actually recently, started the Erica School in Chile.

He corresponded the nine deadly sins, including the seven from Evagrius to the Enneagram. And then you have Claudio Naranjo. Claudio Naranjo also died recently, but he went to that school, the Erica School in Chile.

And from that school, he brought the Enneagram to the United States at Esalon, which was a new age center in California and developed the Enneotypes through automatic writing. And I'm gonna play for you a clip from him in a moment where you'll get a better sense of the history of this.

Now, from there, it went in all kinds of directions, but the one that we need to be concerned about is this. Bob Oakes was authorized by Claudio Naranjo to teach what he learned from Naranjo to the Jesuits.

And so he also, again, died recently, 2018, but he taught this to Jesuits. And from there, it got picked up by a number of others, most notably for our purposes, Richard Rohr. And he released the Enneagram, A Christian Perspective in 2001.

And so from there, from my understanding, this got into the Emergent Church and the Progressive Church. Now people are calling it, it got into all kinds of places in left-leaning Christianity, and now it has finally made its way into the evangelical world.

So that's a little bit of background to the Enneagram. Now, I wanna share with you, Claudio Naranjo, what he says about this history. And some of you, if you have watched anything critiquing the Enneagram, you've probably seen part of this clip.

I'm gonna play for you more though, because I think there's something very significant that a lot of the folks who are critiquing the Enneagram leave out. And so I'm gonna play for you the whole thing, well, or at least a large portion of it.

So at the conference, I told them, I had made up this tale that all this came from millennia ago and that this information came from the Sufis. I told him that actually, Oscar Richardson had not described any of the Enneatypes either.

Actually, in the seven months we spent with him, he devoted about six hours to talk about the Enneagram, but he never came to describe any one of the types. That was in Eureka, in Eureka, Chile. In Eureka, Chile, yeah.

So that came from my own observations, but mostly from automatic writing. Automatic writing? Yeah, it came to me through automatic writing. What did? The specific information. Enneatypes. About Enneatypes, which I then verified through observation, because I was surrounded by people I was teaching and exploring with.

Now, something to point out here,.

Claudio Naranjo right now is saying that he obtained this information from, let's just be honest, from a Christian perspective, from demons. Automatic writing, a spirit controlled him. There's different ways this can take place, but he probably was not even aware of what he was writing.

That's what automatic writing means. And so a spirit is using him to bring the truth of the Enneagram to the world or to his people. You're gonna find out it was supposed to be, not to the whole world, but to the people, his students, the people he taught, his disciples, is what he calls them, interestingly enough.

And so this is where the personality types get started. So really, Claudio Naranjo, more than anyone else, is who you should be looking at to say, who formed this Enneagram? There's all this background, but a lot of that is, as he just said, made up.

It's really, we're not sure, I'll put it that way. We're just not sure exactly what streams have come into the Enneagram and are influencing the modern version that we know of today. Claudio Naranjo is probably the one who you could say, most notably, gives us what is being popularized today.

Although he has something to say about that, which I find fascinating, which when I was watching this, I was like, whoa, this is so interesting to me because this is what happens with things like yoga and with things like, I'm trying to think what other things have been Christianized, new age things have been Christianized.

Well, yoga's probably the best example I can come up with right now. And it starts out with an Eastern mysticism and trying to release the Kudalini force. And the Enneagram is similar. It has this origin in demonic stuff and liberating yourself from, or understanding yourself to be able to liberate yourself from constraints that you have, being able to have deep secret knowledge about the way the universe works and the way yourself works, right?

And now we have this pop version that's like, oh, it's just personality types. It's something that is self-evident that everyone has. It's just an observation. But what Claudio Naranjo just said there is that it was confirmed by observation, but it didn't come from observation.

It came from automatic writing. So there's a spiritual dimension here. That's the origin. And then it's supposedly confirmed. It's a lot different than something that comes from a pagan who is rightly practicing principles that come from natural revelation, scientific principles, mathematical principles, right?

That don't just exist in his head, but that actually exists in the real world. This is different than that in that it's not someone who's starting off with mathematics or starting, you can't find this in a laboratory.

This isn't something that can be tested, except for you can, after learning about it, see if the observations or the boxes, the personalities, these types, if they match up to what you see. So it's not so much a, it's not so much something that is drawn from observation and inquiry, so much as it is confirmed supposedly by those things.

And those are two different things. But anyway, here's Claudio Naranjo expressing his disappointment at what's happened. And this brings us to the present.

I had friends in Eureka who told me essentially the same story. Yeah. That there was no mention of, no others besides. He said there was no mention of any of the types except from you. Yes. So that you were the origin of the eneotype concept.

And you were the origin of the word eneotype. Yes. You suggested it and I adopted that idea. So I thought I would, I have called the people who created this movement, the Enneagram movement, now it's called rather the Enneagram community.

The people who gave birth to that were people who had received filtrations from what I was teaching, which was supposed to be secret, but some people could not keep their mouth shut because the more narcissistic ones can be counted on talking.

And so, and to some extent I had given permission to, like to Bob Oakes, a Jesuit with my group, I said authorize to teach a specific group of Jesuits in Chicago. And the notes from that group came to Riso, who then wrote one of the first books.

Right. Who had never received an experiential understanding. Those were borrowed. Understanding of it. Those were borrowed notes. More than borrowed, yes. That's what I'm, I'm being kind. Yes, in this age of copyright, it's called something different.

Yes, I never accused somebody of outright you know what.

I once questioned a Franciscan who's very well known and very respected as a Franciscan authority and theologian. And I said, why you keep repeating the things I say in my workshops and don't give me credit.

In the academic world, it's a habit to give credit. It's not considered moral, ethical to present the ideas as yours. He said, we Franciscans operate differently. We don't give credit. We're not interested in this notion of property.

Right. So was that idea.

He owns. All right, so here's what's going on. Claudio Naranjo is upset. He's saying these people stole my ideas. They took them and marketed them to, or just use them in an audience that they weren't supposed to use them in.

So the virus escaped the lab. And he's like, that's mine. Why am I not getting credit for it? So people are putting their own spin on it. They're using it for their own purposes. And he's upset. Now there's something else he says here though that also clues us into how he feels.

This is the person again, who developed the personality, the types, how he feels about what's going on today.

Well, it's true that they have created that kind of movement. Like Max Weber used to say, all spiritual movements have a charismatic stage and then a bureaucratic stage. Another way of saying that is.

It's gone into the culture of accreditation. Like all our educational institutions that are not there for teaching people, but for selling tickets to get work opportunities that will get them more money.

Did you have. It said that every crusade eventually becomes somebody's racket. That's very good.

Yeah, very good statement. When you're. Okay, we're not gonna watch Russell Moore yet. I wanted you to hear that last thing he said, because what he's essentially saying is that the Enneagram was this pure thing, more so.

It was this spiritual thing that I taught to my disciples. And I didn't want it going far and wide. This was secret knowledge. This was important for a select group of people to know, but not to get out there.

This was powerful knowledge. And some leakers let it out of the lab. And now it's wreaking havoc and it's subject to market forces. So now there's a stage in this movement, this Enneagram movement that is not pure anymore.

It's about marketing. It's about something else. And so that actually should cast some doubt on what the Enneagram that we're hearing about in the pop version of the Enneagram, to what extent is it connected?

Now, I think it is connected, but it's watered down, or it's changed, or it's marketable more, and it's lost some of that spiritual purity. I think that's what he's complaining about. That's what he's saying.

And he's lamenting this fact that this has happened. So I think this explains some of the debate in Christian circles over this, because you're gonna hear in a moment Russell Moore talk about it, and his defense is a very typical, or people who use it, a very typical Christian response.

So let me play that, and then let me apply what you just heard to what Russell Moore says.

Russell Moore's Defense of the Enneagram as Observation

At, say, the Enneagram or any of these tools, what you're seeing is really just observation. Sure, there's no scientific accuracy to that. There's no scientific accuracy to a lot of different things. The Proverbs talk about watching these patterns of observation.

You know not to grab a dog by the ears, for instance. You can see certain things that work with the grain of the universe, and certain things that don't. And the Bible presents people with different sorts of personalities, and different sorts of motivations.

Almost everybody tends to make those classifications, even just between, say, introverts and extroverts. There are all sorts of exceptions to that, but you can tell if you're kind of basically energized by being around people or not, or if that's an emotional expense for you, and that can be helpful.

Okay, so let's stop there and talk about that. So this is the typical thing you'll hear. Russell Moore is saying it's just observation. What you just heard, though, was that from the person who came up with the personality types, that it wasn't just observation, right?

This is a very key difference. It was confirmed by observation, but it came from automatic writing. So its origin is not observation. And that is a key difference, I think, between that and Myers-Briggs.

Myers-Briggs, as I understand it, is more observation. Now I have my own, I have a story, I don't know if I've shared it on the podcast, going through North American Mission Board training. Well, it was just like a weekend thing.

And the whole thing was based on Myers-Briggs. And I was like, what? For me, I look at scripture. I don't see any of that. The man of God is equipped by the word of God, and God's given tools. And the personality type thing, some people say it's very helpful for them to know their personality type and stuff.

I tend to think that a lot of that is a distraction. That's just, I'm giving you John Harris's opinion here. But my wife and I have different personalities in the sense, and this is a self-evident thing, in the sense that we function differently in the world, and we think about things differently.

Being a guy and a girl is one of the differences, but there's other things too, right? Not all guys think the same, not all girls think the same. So I do think it is self-evident that we behave differently, and there's different factors.

There's nature and nurture both factor into this, I'm sure. But that doesn't mean that we should get hung up or obsessed with it or give that so much weight that we're literally figuring out who should be a church planner and who shouldn't based upon those kinds of things.

Or constructing in business, this happens a lot, constructing your team based upon these personality types. What you find, I think especially in war, honestly, war settings, high-stress settings, is that the people who end up rising to the top and leading the way, they actually come from all kinds of different personality types.

And the question, because some people would say, no, they're all a particular type of personality, that's the leadership personality. The question that you have to ask yourself is, were those people always that way?

Some of the greatest generals in history were quiet, were disciplined, some were not as disciplined. And they were bold, and they were aggressive, and they took chances. And there's all kinds of different temperaments, if you want to call it temperaments, that people can have, and they can still function in particular roles.

And that's what I see coming from Scripture, is just the assumption that we function according to the law that God has given us, the commands and instructions and responsibilities we have, regardless of our personality type.

Regardless, we're just expected. And I don't see this being a factor. It's not even a factor. It's not even talked about, right? So I think it's easy to look at Scripture, and as Russell Moore said, say, okay, there's different, maybe, types of behaviors.

People, Peter is different than John, who is different than all the other disciples. And you can see these differences, perhaps. But, in fact, that's a good example right there. But that didn't seem to factor into whether or not they were qualified to be disciples, or whether or not they were going to be successful or not, or whether or not they needed to behave differently or think about themselves differently, or know something, some secret knowledge about their personality.

Jesus never gets hung up on any of that, ever. So, anyway, that's my main critique of all of this stuff, Myers-Briggs included, I suppose. But the Enneagram has another layer of concern here. And this other layer, I think, is what Russell Moore is missing the boat on, that it's not just observational.

There's something behind it. According to the founder, who else should we go to to get this opinion? So here's where I see the Enneagram making its way into Christian institutions and how it functions.

So let me play that for you. And then I'm gonna show you something that's happening now, or is happening soon, in regards to this, because it's becoming more popular and there's a summit coming up. That's actually the reason I'm doing this podcast, on the Enneagram.

But here's Darren Patrick. Darren Patrick is one of the figures that's marketing this Enneagram stuff into Christianity and evangelical Christianity, specifically the Southern Baptist Convention in particular.

He is, as I understand it, an Enneagram coach and also a Christian counselor. So he integrates these things together. And he's on with a pastor on a podcast. The pastor is Bruce Frank, who is also the head of the Sexual Abuse Task Force for the Southern Baptist Convention.

Some of you will remember that Bruce Frank, I think the first time I ever saw him or his name, was in the First Baptist Naples controversy a few years ago. Marcus Hayes had come from Bruce Frank's church, I believe.

And Bruce Frank had a video that they played at First Baptist Church of Naples to endorse Marcus Hayes. And so that kind of tells you where he is on the woke stuff. But anyway, he has this podcast, it's in 2020, with Darren Patrick.

And let's hear what Darren Patrick has to say about the Enneagram.

The Image of God Broken Into Nine Pieces

Enneagram is like the image of God broken in nine pieces. And I think that we have access, as you grow and mature emotionally and spiritually, access to all those styles. They're like glasses. So ideally, you've got a certain prescription that is your style that you're gonna see most clearly through.

But the goal is you can actually, Bruce, in your case, pick up your wife's forelens and actually see her and see the world through her eyes. That's how, and that's good leadership in any realm. And that's good community.

Like I can, it's empathy, a whole.

Okay, so Darren Patrick is basically saying, look, God, the image of God is split into these nine parts, right? And where do you find this in scripture? Nowhere, nothing. I mean, you're really on a limb here, to say the least.

By talking about something as important as the image of God. But I've noticed, I'll say the image of God is used very casually today. People just throw it around. They use it to support things like illegal migration.

It's an attack on the image of God if you don't want amnesty or something. I mean, it's just ridiculous how the image of God is so abused. No, the image of God is what separates us from the plants and the animals.

It is in somewhat indescribable in a way, but it's the capacity that we have for moral, abstract thought and action, the ability to create, to be creative in a way that animals can't. Animals are, they operate on instinct, and humans are beyond that.

And it's because we're made in the image of God. And so we're valuable. And we shouldn't murder the image of God. That's an attack on God when you murder, when you unjustifiably take someone's life. Now, saying that they can be split into nine parts, I mean, I can't even imagine all the heresies that could come from that.

I mean, do you even have the image of God if you don't have all nine of these parts? Or am I just one ninth of the image of God, possibly? Or if I happen to have two other types, am I just those types?

Well, what you're gonna hear a lot of them say is that we're all these types, but in different ratios. So that doesn't help the matter, though. So if I'm a type two, let's say, on the Enneagram chart or something, and I doubt someone would say I am, but let's say that's what I am, and I have a little bit of eight in me, but it's not enough to categorize myself as an eight, well, then I got a problem.

Man, I'm not measuring up to the image of God, right? I'm supposed to be made in the image of God. That's what scripture teaches that I am, but yet I'm hearing from Darren Patrick that I'm apparently, I have, the ratios are off, or I am not matching up to the full image of God somehow.

I mean, this could really cause some hang-ups. It could cause you to think you have a problem, and it's not even a sin problem, necessarily. It's almost like a design flaw. He would never say it that way, but what are you supposed to conclude when someone says something like that?

He also says things like Jesus is, he was all nine, perfectly. He was all nine. And it's like, well, we're supposed to be like Christ, so I guess there's a moral imperative now to be like all nine of these personality types.

How do you do that? Well, let's keep watching this. And this is Darren Patrick now at Liberty University, largest Christian university. Here he is talking about the Enneagram to all the, as Rush Limbaugh used to say, young skulls full of mush who are there to learn about stuff and life.

Of the Enneagram is, we believe, if you will, a snapshot of the image of God in humanity. Okay, what do I mean by that? Genesis one says we're made in God's image. So what that means is if Jesus took the Enneagram test, he would be perfectly 100 in all nine styles.