September 18, 2019 Show with Anthony Uvenio on “The Call to Every Christian to be an Apologist & Theologian”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 18th day of September, 2019, and I'm so thrilled to have back on the program a returning guest who's also a dear friend and a very faithful and loyal and generous supporter financially of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

His name is Anthony Uvinio, and he's co -founder of New York Apologetics and also co -founder and co -host of The Reformed Rookie.

Today we are going to be addressing the theme, The Call to Every Christian to be an Apologist and Theologian, and we're also going to be talking about an upcoming

Long Island conference, the Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship Conference, which will be held at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Anthony Uvinio. Thanks for having me again,

Chris, I really appreciate it. I'm quite surprised you had me again after my first flop the first time

I was on. You did fine, and you always do fine. Some people might recognize

Anthony's name from not only participating in his own debates, but also his moderation of debates, including a debate that he moderated masterfully, if I might add, between two friends of mine who have very, very seriously opposing views theologically.

One is Dr. Tony Costa, who is a professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary, and he debated another friend of mine who's a

Roman Catholic, who I do not call my brother in Christ, but I do call him my friend because he is my friend,

Robert St. Genes, who is the founder of Catholic Apologetics International, and they debated on the

Immaculate Conception of Mary, if my memory serves me right. Isn't that what they debated? Yes, you got it right, you got it right.

That was right here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and I look forward to having more debates here, as many as the

Lord will allow. But for our listeners who are unfamiliar with you, Anthony, why don't you let them know about New York Apologetics?

Sure, I'm a co -founder with Nick Bitchell of New York Apologetics, and we go into high schools and colleges and churches on Long Island, helping people learn the arguments for the existence of God, obviously

Biblical arguments, and to strengthen and edify their faith, because a lot of people, you know, they get caught off -guard by these so -called institutions of higher learning, where professors seek to dismantle people's faith and get them to just basically renounce what they've held dear for so long.

So we go in and we try to teach them the things that they need to know.

We show them that science and faith are perfectly compatible, in fact, you can't do science without faith, and once we start talking to them and speaking into them, they really have a change of mind.

In fact, maybe we can get into it a little bit later, I just got a phone call from one of the kids that we were speaking to at Stony Brook University at the

Free Thinkers Society, and he had come to faith about three years after we had spoken to him, and he reached out to me and he said,

Anthony, I just want to let you know, we now have our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in common. And I was just blown away by that, because, you know,

Apologetics played a part in that, not a major, major part, but it was one of the things that God used to move him in the right direction, to get to see who

God really is. Amen. Amen. Oh, you just reminded me that you gave me the privilege of being the moderator at a debate on atheism between Frank Turek, and the opponent's name slips my mind right now, who is that?

Michael Shermer, he's the president of Skeptic Magazine. Right, right. And thanks for dumping that responsibility on me to be the moderator at that debate, because there were absolutely no rules that were obeyed during that debate.

Well, actually, I don't really consider that one a debate, that was more like a WWF wrestling match.

The crowd really got into it, it was kind of wild. As much as I tried to get things in order and have people obey rules,

I couldn't, especially since Frank said, oh, that's okay, I like the freestyle way of debating,

I'm like, oh, come on, give me a break. Thanks for backing me up, Frank. But anyway, it was still a fun time, and I had some fun also seeing some friends that I had not seen in a long time who came to that event.

Yeah, that debate got a lot of attention, actually, because of what happened with the LGBT community.

They wrote a scathing letter to the officers of Stony Brook University saying, how could they possibly let such a horrific person like Frank Turek on the campus to speak such hate speech?

And it actually got national attention, and Richard Dawkins, a renowned atheist, commented on it, and Michael Shermer ended up contacting

Frank Turek, and they together wrote a letter to Stony Brook University saying, this should not happen,

I mean, free speech should be allowed no matter where you are, especially at a university where it's a diversity of ideas and, you know, may the best idea win.

So it actually brought an atheist and a Christian together, and Dawkins commented on it. Yeah, and I believe

Michael, correct me if I'm wrong, he is not, he doesn't describe himself as a liberal, he's actually a libertarian, isn't he?

I'm not quite sure, Chris. I think, I think he is politically libertarian, and on political issues,

I believe he even tends to, on occasion, lean right. I'm not talking about, necessarily, social and moral issues, but I'll correct myself if I, after doing some research, prove to be wrong, just as I am very often, but I'm almost certain he is a libertarian, and not necessarily a left -wing liberal kind of a left libertarian, as some libertarians are, especially when it comes to morals, but the topic that we are addressing today,

I think we should clarify what we mean by the words in the topic, the call to every Christian to be an apologist and theologian.

Now, I just want to make it clear that I am not saying, and my guest

Anthony Uvinio is not saying, that every Christian has a responsibility to be trained in the original languages of the

Bible, needs to be formally trained in areas of higher learning, and the halls of academia and so on, it doesn't mean that every

Christian needs to earn degrees, doesn't mean that they have to go to seminary, or anything else like that, it just means that we have a responsibility from God to be able to defend our faith, and accurately, according to the scriptures, proclaim our faith, and we need to be theologians, because everyone is a theologian, you're just a good theologian, or a bad one, everyone needs to have some understanding of theology and doctrine, and that's what we mean by theologian, have

I adequately described our topic? Oh absolutely, and I would just add that same holds true for an apologist, if you're a

Christian, you are an apologist, it's just either you're a good one, or a bad one, and you know, my favorite verse is

Acts 4 .13, and before seminary, Acts 13 said, Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished, and they recognized that these men had been with Jesus.

Really Chris, my only qualification is that I've been with Jesus, and he's revealed things to me in the scriptures, and I'm just able to pass those on to other people.

Now I certainly don't want to dissuade anybody from seminary, please, if you have the availability and the means to get there, go, study as much as you can, get as much education as you can, but if you can't, you can still study the scriptures on your own, under correct guidance, in a solid church, and take that knowledge, start a

Bible study, speak to people you know about God. If we love people, and we love

God, we're going to tell them about the most important thing in our lives, and that would be our faith. Amen.

Well I think that because of the fact that you have a conference coming up, a conference that you're actually participating in yourself,

I think it would be a good idea also to tell our listeners about this right away, and hopefully we'll remember to repeat the information later as well, but the

Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship is having a conference at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, and that is coming up November 1st and 2nd,

Friday and Saturday, November 1st and 2nd, which will be here before you know it, and God willing,

I will be there as an audience member, hopefully, and I am planning to be there, we just have to see how the

Lord blesses us financially to enable me to get out there, and I'm always excited to visit

Hope Reform Baptist Church, both at their old location in Farmingville and Medford, I should have said locations, plural, but also their beautiful new facility in Coram, Long Island, New York, which is like a country church out of a movie, the way it looks, surrounded by forest and all that,

I really love that area and that building, but tell us about the Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship that's coming up, or should

I say the conference of the Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship? Yeah, the Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship is a group of like -minded pastors who hold for the

Doctrines of Grace, and who are looking to promote that in our local communities. So since we've got this new, beautiful building, we decided that we'd host the conference for the first time, and have it at our church, two days, it's going to be on the

Doctrines of Grace, which, if people aren't familiar with those, that would be total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, perseverance of the saint, and yeah, that's it.

And we're going to do a roundtable, question and answer, so after all of the sessions, if you have questions about Calvinism, we're going to be able to answer those questions, and it's going to be done by a group of local pastors,

Mark Romaldi, Michael McCormick, and then a couple of laypeople like myself and Eli Ialla, also another pastor,

Bruce Bennett, he's going to be speaking at the conference. So we're hoping to show people that Calvinism is biblical, it is not sometimes this monster that people make it out to be.

We do believe God is loving, we believe God is a Father, and we believe that the Doctrines of Grace best reflect the biblical witness of who

God is and how He saves people. In fact, I think the Doctrines of Grace give

God the most glory and the most honor out of any other doctrinal system.

So we're really looking forward to this. If you want information on it, you can go to my website, which is www .reformedrookie

.com. Across the top is a little button called Conference, you click on that, that'll give you all the information that you need, it'll give you a place where you can sign up for tickets, admission is free, there's no charge for this whatsoever, it'll give you an outline of the conference, and then underneath is a bunch of free resources that you can download that'll help you understand what

Calvinism is, what the Doctrines of Grace are, and help you to pass this information on to others.

So I have a Doctrines of Grace Categorized Scripture List, you can download that, I've got

Calvinism Summarized, I have the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, which is the confession that we hold to at Hope Reformed Baptist Church, I've also got something called the

Calvinist Survival Guide, so if you're a Calvinist and you want to learn how to answer some questions, maybe people are opposing some of the things that you hold to, that would be a good thing to download.

So that'll really give you all the information you need. Great, and we will be exploring that a little later on in more detail.

Also, I just have to ask you a question, why on earth did you invite a loser like Mark Romaldi there?

I hope he's listening, Mark Romaldi, just to educate our listeners a little bit, he was my pastor before moving to Pennsylvania, and had the great misfortune of having to shepherd me, but I was just joking, he is a remarkably gifted pastor, and really a very very gifted preacher,

I mean I'm usually, or should I say I'm always riveted to him while he is preaching and teaching, and has the gift not only to accurately present content that is faithful to the

Bible, but he does so in a very passionate way, he is a very gifted orator as well as being very knowledgeable in the scriptures.

I love Pastor Mark, I echo everything that you said, and I'd just like to add one thing, he's got a terrific sense of humor, he fits right in with all of us.

Oh yeah, I mean, nobody might ever know that unless they see some videos that he's posted on Facebook.

No, Pastor Mark is a solid guy, I am so glad that he's going to be speaking at this conference, because like you said, people are going to listen to him, he speaks with authority, he speaks based on what the scriptures actually say, he exegetes them,

I think people are really going to be blessed by this conference, I can't wait for it to take place. And I remember

Mark before he was even a believer, because his parents were members of the church where I was a member, that Mark eventually became pastor himself, but first Calvary Baptist Church of Nile, and then

Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island, America. Mark was not a believer when I was attending initially, for quite a number of years, he was a rebellious young man, and I can remember him storming into the house when we were having

Bible studies at his parents' house, and Mark would be coming in through the door with purple hair and starting arguments with his parents.

I never would have thought in a million years that guy was going to be my pastor, it's just amazing how things work out in God's providence, and he has quite a testimony, he almost died in a hospital after a drug overdose, and his testimony is very, very remarkable.

And that just happened about a week ago. No, I'm just kidding. That happened before he was a

Christian and before he entered into the ministry. When we put the conference details together,

I was so elated that I got chosen to do the talk on total depravity, and as I was boasting about how

I can't wait to do it, one of the people said,

I want you to do total depravity because you're the best example of total depravity we have.

My joy quickly turned, my pride quickly turned to sorrow, and I said, okay, I'm going to do the best

I can with this one. Yeah, it reminds me of when I was the emcee of one of the many debates that I orchestrated between Dr.

James R. White and Roman Catholic apologists on Long Island, and I remember during my opening stand -up comedy routine that I usually did to put people more at ease because it was a very hostile environment, very tension -filled environment with hardcore

Calvinists and hardcore Roman Catholics in the room, I remember I said during my opening statements that my wife thought that I was the perfect combination of theology from both the

Reformation and from Roman Catholicism, and I said to her, what on earth are you talking about?

And she said, you're both totally depraved and invincibly ignorant. That's great.

Oh, that's great. I miss my wife dearly now in heaven, even though she had some very clever insults to her with me sometimes.

She was a precious, precious bride, and I miss her dearly. I'm going to give our listeners our email address if they would like to join us on the air with any questions.

It's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and I hope my audience is going to be patient with me.

I'm going to try to play a clip of something that it was not intending to, didn't even occur to me to play it until we were on the air already, and this is going to be the, what do you call it, the apology that Drew Breeze gave, and I want you to go over it with me.

By the way, James White on the Dividing Line recently did a phenomenal job of examining and dissecting this apology that Drew Breeze gave, and Drew Breeze, one of the great quarterbacks in the

NFL, and it's a great guy, and I want to thank him for that. When Christians hear about people of his fame professing

Christ, we always get excited whether they are athletes, whether they are actors, these people who are in the limelight, but unfortunately, we very often are let down in a big way because very often these very famous people in the limelight, because they have a lot more pressure than your average

Christian, a lot more pressure than I do, probably a lot more pressure than you do, to remain, or should

I say, to toe the line, to toe the line of political correctness because these people are gambling with million -dollar, multi -multi -multi -million -dollar careers very often, and they stand a good chance of losing a lot more than I or you would lose, but I don't want to go overboard in my harshness about Drew Breeze or against Drew Breeze because of what

I just said, and then somebody brought up a fact to me, or I shouldn't say a fact, a theory to me that I didn't even consider.

He said, you don't even know how he and his family's lives may have been threatened behind the scenes, and that is true.

I don't know. That could have happened, but at the same time, and this may sound very haughty of me to say because nobody's threatening my life, but at the same time, all

Christians who are truly children of God recognize that our first and foremost responsibility is to fear

God and not men, and not to shrink from our responsibility to declare the gospel and Jesus Christ as the one and only way for men to be made right with God, the one and only way where sinners can enter into heaven, and therefore, we are not to be not only more afraid of men than God, we're not to be more concerned with the feelings of sinners than we are concerned over their eternal destiny.

We can't be more concerned about how we may hurt their feelings or upset them on this earth, and be unconcerned about them entering into hell because they haven't repented, and I'm sure you agree with everything

I'm saying, knowing you, and well, here is the clip of Drew Brees' apology.

Hello, everyone. There's been a lot of negativity spread about me in the LGBTQ community recently based upon an article that someone wrote with a very negative headline that I think led people to believe that somehow

I was aligned with an organization that was anti -LGBTQ and so on and so forth.

I'd like to set the record straight. I live by two very simple Christian fundamentals, and that is love the

Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. I think the first one is very self -explanatory.

The second one, love your neighbor as yourself. What does that mean to me? That means love all, respect all, and accept all.

So that is actually how I live my life. That is what I try to do with my family, with my teammates, with people in my community, with my friends, all people, no matter your race, your color, your religious preference, your sexual orientation, your political beliefs, it doesn't matter.

So the fact that these rumors have been spread about me are completely untrue. What I did was

I filmed a video recently that was encouraging kids to bring their Bibles to school for National Bring Your Bible to School Day, to bring your

Bibles to school, to be able to live out your faith with confidence, and I even gave one of my favorite Bible verses.

It was as simple as that. So I'm not sure why the negativity spread or why people tried to rope me into certain negativity.

I do not support any groups that discriminate or that have their own agendas that are trying to promote inequality, okay?

So hopefully that has set the record straight, and we can all move on, because that's not what I stand for.

Have a great day. Well, Anthony... The Simple Knot, like its name implies, has...

Never intended the commercial to continue airing. I didn't click hard enough there. Anthony, this is my first impression of what

Drew Brees just did. I think that as many

Christians in the 21st century, and it's been longer than that, but especially in the 21st century, they speak in such a way that is ambiguous enough that both those who are in the 21st century, those on the right and the left, those that may be strong and strict adherents to biblical inerrancy and biblical orthodoxy, biblical morality, and so on, that they, on the one hand, might have, to a degree, their outrage quelled or subsided, not completely because of the ambiguity.

There might be some scratching of heads as to what he meant. And then, on the other hand, the same would be with those on the far left of the situation, those that embrace homosexuality either as advocates or as participants in rebellion against God.

And what I mean by what I'm saying is there are certain words that are used to in such defenses as we just heard from Drew Brees that demand further explanation.

Like for instance, he said that the two commandments that basically are the hallmark of his

Christian faith are to love God with all his heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love his neighbor as himself.

And therefore, people might think, especially in this case on the left, well, if he loves homosexuality, he must agree that this is an acceptable way to live, an acceptable sexual choice to participate in, although he didn't say that.

And then, on the other hand, you'll have the conservatives, perhaps, especially those who are more naive or more gullible, being appeased by that because they will think in their heads, well, he knows that if you really love a homosexual, you're going to tell him that his only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ and to embrace his gospel.

And if you're unrepentant as a homosexual, the loving thing that Christians have to do is to command you and urge you and plead with you to repent.

But he didn't say that either. And another key word here is accept.

He was basically saying, I accept everybody no matter what they believe and what they do in a sexual manner or any other realm of life.

He accepts them. Now, what does that mean? You have to be more explicitly detailed as a

Christian because, on the one hand, I'm sure if you and I are in worship one day and a homosexual couple comes through the door, we happen to be standing in the narthex or something, and they say, we're a homosexual couple.

Can we come into this building and worship with you? Of course, we wouldn't in our minds believe that they would be worshiping the same true

God as we worship, but we would not say, no, get out of here. You're not permitted in here. We would accept them into the building.

In fact, we would probably even be very enthusiastic in hope that they would hear the gospel, repent, and believe in the gospel, and be transformed.

We would be hoping for that. So we would be accepting of them. We would be accepting of Muslims who would want to come in and hear the word of God preached.

James White has gone into mosques all over the world and preached during debates. So we would hope that they would hear the gospel and believe it and repent.

So in that sense, we accept them, but acceptance on the left side, if they're hearing

Drew Brees, they may be thinking, oh, he accepts us as completely equal with him in his stand before Jesus Christ, that he believes

Jesus Christ holds no judgment toward us, that Jesus Christ's wrath is not hovering over us.

He believes that we will be in heaven with him. And of course, that would be a falsehood when it comes to Christianity.

Now, I want you, we have to go to our first break right now, but I want you to respond to what

I just said and to what you heard Drew Brees said. And as an apologist and as somebody with New York apologetics,

I think that this would be helpful for folks. And also I want to remind our listeners,

James White did a masterful job dissecting what Drew Brees said in a recent

Dividing Line. I perhaps will find the date of that Dividing Line episode during the break and let you know about which date it is.

But he usually writes descriptions of his episodes and he may have included his dissection of Drew Brees' so -called apology.

So that would be at aomin .org, aomin .org, and you scroll down to where the

Dividing Line episodes are listed. But we're going to go to our first break and we'll have Anthony Eugenio respond to what we just heard, both

Drew Brees' apology and also my commentary on it. And if you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

chrisarnson at gmail dot com. And as always, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away, we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new, beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my

New York debates. I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the

Holy Scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,

Pastor Christopher McDowell. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net,

that's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711, that's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, New York, and the

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This is Todd Friel of Wretched Radio and TV with Phil Johnson of Graced U, inviting everybody to come to the

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It's a great conference. I love it. And Chris Arnzen was there last year. He's been there, I think, every year.

It's great to see him there. You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place, which is a highlight for me.

So tons of stuff going on. Tons of great speakers. And no matter where you are in the building, you will hear Chris Arnzen's laugh.

That's worth the price of admission alone. If you would like to join Phil, me, Chris, and a cavalcade of great preachers, so it should be a cavalcade of great preachers, and me, g3conference .com.

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A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a

God -centered focus. Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace

.com. That's gcbcnj .squarespace

.com. Or call them at 908 -996 -7654.

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I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of scripture and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ.

Our churches and our people need to be well -grounded in these truths. Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people.

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I'm so grateful to our sovereign God that while manning an exhibitor's booth for Iron Sharpens Iron, a major Bible conference,

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Johns County. Andrew is certainly the kind of pastor that is a perfect match for my radio show and has already proven to be an ideal guest.

Christ Reformed Community Church shares my conviction that God is both creator and sustainer of the universe.

He rules and reigns providentially over our lives. He directs not only the historical events of the world, but also the personal events of individuals.

I agree with Christ Reformed Community Church that the very purpose of the church is to make disciples, that we are tasked with the responsibility to evangelize locally, nationally, and globally, and that we are to equip the saints for the work of service.

Unlike the man -centered, seeker -sensitive movement, they do not gauge the success of biblical discipleship by how many people are in a church, but by the faithful ministry of God's word and gospel.

For more details on Christ Reformed Community Church, visit ChristReformedCC .com.

That's ChristReformedCC .com. Or call 904 -955 -9881.

That's 904 -955 -9881. Tell Pastor Andrew that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

I'm Pastor Andrew Smith, and I'd like to urge you to consider joining Christ Reformed Community Church of St.

John's, Florida, in financially supporting Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in. Our guest today for the full two hours, with about 90 minutes to go, or a little less, is

Anthony Uvinio, co -founder of New York Apologetics, and also a co -founder and co -host of The Reformed Rookie.

And by the way, after the program, if you want to do some further investigation of both of these ministries, you can go to NewYorkApologetics .com,

and that's spelled out in full words, not abbreviations, NewYork, N -E -W -Y -O -R -K,

Apologetics .com, NewYorkApologetics .com. And also, The Reformed Rookie can be found at ReformedRookie .com,

ReformedRookie .com. And I want to let our listeners know that I did find the date of the

Dividing Line program, where James White, among other things, addressed the

Drew Brees apology to the LBGT community, so -called, and that date was

September 10th. So, if you go to the Alpha and Omega Ministries website,

A -O -M -I -N .org, and you scroll down to blog posts, which would include the different Dividing Line episodes, if you go to September 10th, that's the one that you click on for James White's dissection of Drew Brees' apology.

But now we're going to have Anthony Uvinio respond to Drew Brees' apology, and my own take on it, my own reaction to it, and if you could begin.

Sure. I didn't get a chance to listen to Dr. White's analysis of it yet, but I will be sure to.

In just listening to Drew Brees, I certainly don't want to condemn him or question his salvation or his commitment to Christ, but I do think he could have been a little bit more specific.

Now, before we, you know, throw... I'm going to criticize you a little bit more. Okay. Before we, you know, pick up the stone,

Drew Brees, we have to remember there was this guy called Peter who denied Christ three times, you know, knowing full well that it was coming.

We have to give him a little time, maybe for repentance or for the Holy Spirit to work in and through him.

One of the descriptions that comes to mind for me is, and I think it's one that I've committed to memory,

Colossians 4, 5, and 6, walking wisdom towards outsiders, making the best use of the time.

Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.

Now, he said something about loving your neighbor, loving God and loving your neighbor, and I agree with you,

Chris. I think if we love our neighbor, we have to warn them about what's to come.

Now, I don't know what organization they accused him of supporting. And Focus on the

Family was who, I believe, sponsored his public service announcement for Bring Your Bible to School Day.

Right. I certainly wouldn't have shrunk back from my support of Focus on the

Family. In fact, what I would have done is clarified and said, listen, I fully support Focus on the

Family and Jesus' definition of marriage.

I mean, I'm a follower of Jesus. I encourage kids to bring their Bibles to church.

Now, the funny thing was, he said he wanted them to bring their Bibles to school,

I should say, so that they could live out their faith with confidence. And I found it odd, because now he's not being too confident of the faith that he holds, and Jesus' definition of marriage.

We go back to Matthew 19, Jesus says, as it was from the beginning, one man plus one woman become one flesh for one lifetime.

I don't think we should shrink back from that. He also said he doesn't discriminate.

Now, it all depends on what you mean by that word, discriminate. Right, do you think that the

NFL would discriminate against me if I, as a nearly 58 -year -old man, were to try out for the

Philadelphia Eagles or perhaps the New York Jets or Giants from where I used to live?

I mean, I didn't have qualifying skills when I was 18, let alone 57.

Do you think that they would be discriminatory against me becoming a part of the team?

I sure do, and I think there are specific times to discriminate and not to discriminate against.

It's going to be a contextual type thing. Let me say up front that every human being is created in the image of God and worthy of dignity and respect on our part.

We are to love all humanity. We're to love our enemies as ourselves. And I love people of all faiths, all colors, all sexualities.

They are human beings created in the image of God. That's one way to live out your faith.

However, love warns its neighbor. Okay, so I wouldn't, especially given what

Drew Brees, who Drew Brees is and the ramifications for what he said, if it was me

I wouldn't have even gone on the air and apologized, I don't think. But when we're talking to people who are affirming

LGBT, I think that's a one -on -one conversation. I don't think that's something we can say, listen,

I hold to the traditional view of marriage and I'm not ashamed of that. I think personal connections are necessary when you're talking to someone like that and it would have to be a one -on -one situation in speaking to that person and witnessing to that person, because none of us have lived lives worthy of eternal life.

We're all sinners. I could list you hundreds of sins that I've committed, and I think the

Church goes soft on certain sins. You know, right now the pet sin is same -sex marriage, and the

Church is coming down against it, and rightly it should, but what about sex outside of marriage?

What about divorce? What about all the other sins that, some way or another, the Church seems to overlook? I think we have to be consistent as a body of Christ.

I think we have to be consistent in our condemnation of those things, but at the same point in time be loving of the people who committed those sins, because we too walked in those shoes.

Not only did we walk in them, we still continue to sin today. That's why we need a Savior. So I think love warns its neighbor, it tells people of God's law how we fall short of it, but how

God also provided a way to escape the condemnation that His law deserves.

So I think you were right, he was a little ambiguous. I would have liked a little bit more firmness in the way he answered, and a little bit more confidence in the faith that he holds, in the

Bible that he holds. This is God's Word, it's God -breathed, we can stand on that. But then again, he has a lot to lose, and I don't want to make excuses for him.

It's easy for me to talk like this, because I'm not the one who stands to lose millions of dollars. Now, I don't think he should compromise either.

I think there was probably a better way he could have handled that situation. Yeah, so losing millions of dollars is never an excuse to deny the faith, to be ashamed of the gospel.

Now, again, I'm not ever going to lose a million dollars, because I've never owned or never will probably have a million dollars or more in my bank account.

But that still does not prevent me with a liberty or even a duty to publicly criticize a public figure.

And I'm trying to be as humble as I can about it, but at the same time, I think that it was a tragedy that a

Christian was forced in a public forum. I don't know exactly the details of how he was forced or compelled or urged, but it's interesting how he was not embarrassed to discriminate against or demonstrate disapproval in a cryptic way of focus on the family.

He didn't mention them by name, but the organization that he claimed he was not a part of or what have you, he seemed much more clear that he was distancing himself from these

Christians who believe in biblical inerrancy, his brothers and sisters in Christ, than he was about the

LBGT community. And this group of sinners has really got a stronghold in politics globally.

It's really amazing and frightening how a tiny percentage of the population can have that much of a stronghold where, you know, a lot of Christians and conservatives will say there's no such thing as homophobia.

Oh, yes, there is. Homophobia is the paranoia or irrational fear of homosexuals by conservatives, especially in the realms of politics and Christianity.

They compromise what they in their heart of hearts believe out of fear of what the consequences are subsequent to making any kind of disapproving remarks in public about this group of sinners.

So they are terrified, as I believe Drew Brees, not terrified of linebackers, not terrified or maybe he is, but he doesn't act like he is, and yet terrified of the homosexual quote quote community.

This is just, it grieves me, but I'm not shocked because this happens over and over and over again.

A Christian or a professing Christian gets charged up about something and says, wow,

I'm going to be really outspoken in defense of my faith in some public way on TV or some other area and Drew Brees did this support, this public support of bring your

Bible to school day and when he gets threatened in ways that we don't know for certain, all of a sudden he caves in, falls to his knees, and pardon the analogy, but fumbles the ball and winds up giving the exact opposite message that it appeared he intended to give originally.

He was basically giving the message, I don't believe in this Bible that I hope children bring to school because this

Bible condemns with damnation the unnatural and abominable practice of homosexuality, so I'm hereby saying

I don't really believe those parts. That's what his ambiguous and unspecific message that he gave in his apology, that's the kind of message that really relates to people in my opinion.

Yeah, he walked the line, you know, he was tiptoeing and walking on the tightrope so as not to offend anyone.

I think if Jesus makes it clear, if they hate you it's because they hated me first. We are going to be hated.

If Jesus spoke the same way he did, they never would have killed him, right? So we know that the message that we bring is going to tick people off, it's going to prick them, it's going to touch a nerve, and they're going to hate us.

But we can't capitulate to the culture. We see what's going on in America today, and I think in large part the culture is the rapport card of the

Church. If the Church stood up and taught what the Scriptures teach, I don't think we would be in this position.

However, I think that we have to learn, we have to be tactful in our answers, and in fact, as your listeners are listening to this, you know,

I think what we should all do is think how we would answer this particular issue ourselves.

In fact, we have to go to our midway break right now, so let's perhaps even give some examples of how you and I might respond to this.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com. This is the longer than normal break in the middle of the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us this longer break because they run their own public service announcements to localize

Iron Trump and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, which is an FCC requirement. So while they air their own messages, we air our own globally heard commercials.

Please write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and more successfully patronize them because we need our advertisers to exist, and therefore, if we want our advertisers to stick around, we're going to have to have you, the listener, patronize them as much as possible.

And also, write down questions for Anthony Uvinio on how every Christian is called to be an apologist and a theologian.

Don't go away, God willing, we're going to be right back after these messages with more of Anthony Uvinio.

World provides clarity to the news stories that really matter. I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's simply not found in other media outlets.

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I'm Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

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I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, and my friend Chris Arnzen and I are excited to be attending another

G3 conference together in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th, on a theme that is vitally important to all of us,

Worship Matters. I'll be on the speaking lineup with Eric Thomas, Joel Beeky, Paul Washer, Steve Lawson, Phil Johnson, Tom Askell, Voti Baltham, and the world -renowned preacher, teacher, and author,

John MacArthur. A fascinating new addition to the roster is Kosti Hinn, nephew of the notorious false teacher,

Benny Hinn. Kosti has repented of the word -faith heresies of his youth, and is now a Reformed Baptist pastor and cessationist in California.

Come join me and Chris Arnzen at G3 2020, January 16th through the 18th, in Atlanta, by registering at g3conference .com.

That's g3conference .com. See you there. Iron Sharpens Iron welcomes

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If you live on Long Island, or if you're visiting the metropolitan New York area, I invite you to join us for worship at The Haven on Sundays at 4 .30pm.

We meet at the Ascension Lutheran Church facility, 33 Bayshore Road in Deer Park, New York.

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33 Bayshore Road, Deer Park, New York. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

And besides that, they feel so good. I'm so delighted I discovered Post -Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot. Jeffrey Rice of Post -Tenebrous

Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan. All his work is done by hand, from the cutting, to the pleating of corners, to the perimeter stitching.

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French tannery used to rebind a Reformation Study Bible I used as a gift. The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.

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For more details on Post -Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding, go to ptlbiblerebinding .com.

That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine

Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the Historical Bible Society. The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.

The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers and Christian apologetics with evidence for the

Bible's reliability, and to introduce Reformation literature and Christian art to a broader audience.

Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the northeast United States, reaching thousands of believers and non -believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the

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Come journey through their website, historicalbiblesociety .org. The collection includes a complete 11th century

Bible, an actual page of the Gutenberg Bible from 1455, the first book ever printed, the

Geneva Bible, the 1611 King James Bible, and much, much more. Visit historicalbiblesociety .org

today. Thank you, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, for your faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

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That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I would like to introduce you to my good friends

Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Books Service.

Todd and Patty specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable to everyone.

Since 1987, the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available

Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices. Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available because, frankly, much of what is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster. It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and otherwise faith -insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

Their website is CVBBS .com. Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work in service to you, the church, and to Christ.

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Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. And don't forget, folks, you can call

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and 4 .30 p .m. at their toll -free number to place your order, to ask questions, and so on.

That toll -free number that you can call is 800 -656 -0231, 800 -656 -0231.

Always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnes on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. And also ask them about the two free books that they're giving away with any order.

The first one is for a purchase no matter how inexpensive. That is

True Love by Dr. James M. Renahan. The second is a much larger hardback, also published by Evangelical Press.

My favorite biography of all time, a pastor in New York, the life and time of Spencer Cohn, who was a

Calvinistic Baptist pastor in Manhattan in the 19th century and is tragically hardly known today by anyone.

His life is so fascinating and so impressive and so God -glorifying that it should be certainly either a major motion picture or a documentary.

It is that overwhelmingly fascinating to me anyway. And that book requires a larger purchase of minimum of $50 because of its length and its cost.

So go to CVBBS .com to order and also you can call them, as I said, to ask about those two free books that they're giving away.

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And only call Monday through Friday between 10 a .m. and 4 .30 p .m. Eastern Time. And while you're at it, before you even go to the

CVBBS .com website or call them, why not go to another sponsor of mine which is a publisher and they publish books that CVBBS .com

carries. If you want to help two sponsors at the same time, go to solid -ground -books .com,

solid -ground -books .com. That is the website of Solid Ground Christian Books, one of my key financial supporters and advertisers.

Make a long list of books that you want to order from Solid Ground Christian Books at solid -ground -books .com.

Then after you make that long list, go to CVBBS .com and order them there because CVBBS .com

is a distributor, not a publisher. So that way you could help both of my sponsors that involve books at the same time.

Just a thought. And also I want to let you know before I return to Anthony Uvina, I want to let you know about some upcoming events that I hope as many of you as possible will attend.

The first one we announced at the beginning of the show, we'll announce it again. That is the conference being conducted by the

Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship. And this is a conference on the doctrines of grace.

And it's being held at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York.

And that is being held November 1st, 7 to 9 p .m. And on November 2nd, 10 to 4 p .m.,

10 a .m. to 4 p .m. And this is at, as I said, the

Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, on a Friday and Saturday. So a nice way to start the weekend,

November 1st and 2nd. At the Hope Reformed Baptist Church. For more details, go to hopereformedli .net.

hopereformedli .net You can also go to the Reformed Rookie website, which is the podcast of my guest today,

Anthony Uvino. reformedrookie .com reformedrookie .com You can also call, area code 631 -696 -5711.

631 -696 -5711 I intend to be there, so I hope to see as many of my

Long Island area Iron Sherp and Zion Radio listeners there as possible. And please greet me if you do attend.

Look around for me, ask around for me, and they will usually say, See that big, ugly guy standing in the corner?

You can just walk over and say hello. I would look forward to meeting you, if I have not met you already.

Then, coming up after that, in December, I am going to be packing up my bags and heading to my old stomping grounds,

New York City, for the Foundations Conference. The Foundations Conference is a remarkable conference as well.

And this is only for men in ministry leadership. Unlike the conference that I just mentioned, the

Spurgeon Fellowship Conference, which is open to all men, women, and children, the Foundations Conference, because it's a small venue, less than 200 people can attend because of the size of the venue.

So, they are restricting this to only men in ministry leadership. So, if you are in that category, please go to thefoundationsconference .com,

thefoundationsconference .com. The event is being held, as I said, in Manhattan, in the heart of the

Christmas season. I don't think there's a better place to be in the world during the Christmas season than New York City.

It's being held Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th.

And the speaker roster, as always, is remarkable. Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, Paul Washer, Rev.

Jeff Thomas, Armin Tomasian, Richard Colwell Jr., and Andrew Quigley.

For more details, go to thefoundationsconference .com, thefoundationsconference .com.

Then, in January, from Thursday, January 16th, through Saturday, January 18th,

I am packing up my bags again. But this time, I'm heading down south to the G3 Conference.

The G3 Conference is one of the most remarkable conferences that exists annually.

It's being held at the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta.

The theme this January is Worship Matters. And the speaking roster, as always, is quite breathtaking and amazingly long, and just incredibly packed with some of the most gifted men on the planet

Earth who love Jesus Christ and His Word and are masters at articulating their faith in that Christ and His Gospel.

They include, again, Stephen J. Lawson and Paul Washer. They include a mutual friend of my guest today in mind,

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, who you've been hearing promoting, Hope Reform Baptist Church of Cornwall Island, where my guest is a member.

Derek Thomas, a world -renowned preacher, teacher, and author in the

Reformed community especially. My friend, Dr. Tom Askell, who is the

Executive Director of Founders Ministries, the Calvinistic ministry within the Southern Baptist Convention.

Stephen J. Nichols, the President of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late

R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries. And Kosti Hinn, the nephew of the notorious charlatan and heretic,

Benny Hinn. And Kosti does not mind me saying that, because Kosti says that himself, whenever he is given an opportunity, he is a repentant, former member of the

Word of Faith movement himself, who has embraced true biblical

Christianity. More specifically, he is a Reformed Baptist. And as James White was saying, he was pastoring in California.

James didn't have the updated news that Kosti has been called to a church in Arizona now, where he is currently on the pastoral team.

And not only is he a Reformed Baptist, but he's a cessationist. Even more of a huge distance from his notorious uncle.

So he will be on the roster, and many more will be on the roster. And John MacArthur himself is on the roster.

That alone, if John MacArthur was the only one speaking, I would register for this conference. So, if you want to attend, that's

Thursday, January 16th, through Saturday, January 18th, in Atlanta, Georgia, or a suburb of Atlanta College Park, at the

Georgia International Convention Center. Go to G3conference .com. G3conference .com.

I strongly urge you, if you own a business, if you run a power church organization, or you have anything else that you want to promote or introduce to the body of Christ in large numbers,

I would strongly urge you to register for an exhibitor's booth as well, in addition to just attending.

Just like I will be doing. I will be manning an exhibitor's booth for the fourth year in a row, at the G3 Conference, for Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio.

I hope all of you who attend come and seek me out. Visit my exhibitor's booth, where I will be conducting on -site live interviews.

Well, actually, they will be recorded for later airing, but they will be conducted right on the site there.

So, while they still have room, with John MacArthur added to the lineup, they're going to run out of room for exhibitor's booths fast.

So, I would strongly urge you to go to G3conference .com, register to attend, and if it suits your purposes, register for an exhibitor's booth, because they usually have over 5 ,000 people there.

I believe, with John MacArthur added to the roster, they're going to have over 6 ,000 people. I really believe that.

So, go to G3conference .com, G3conference .com. Last but not least, if you love

Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio, you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves. You look forward to the guests and topics that we feature, that sometimes are hardly heard anywhere else.

Sometimes they're never heard anywhere else. You have extra money on top of your finances that enable you to provide for your church and your home.

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It's fairly frightening, actually, that we were having a large, steady stream of donations coming in for quite a while, and they've nearly dried up.

There's only a tiny handful of faithful contributors to Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio that are contributing now every month.

That includes my guest, Anthony Eugenio. We thank God for him and his generosity. And there's others all over the world, but it's still a small handful that are helping us out month after month.

So please, if you've forgotten about us, or if you've never given before, and you love this show, you don't want it to go away, without siphoning money away from your regular giving to your local church, never do that, and without putting your family in financial jeopardy.

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.com. And also, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church, and you're not even prayerfully looking for one, you're living in rebellion against God, please send me an email if you need help finding a church.

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world, and I've helped people find churches all over the world, either where they themselves have joined, or where they have visited on vacation, or where they have referred their family, friends, and loved ones who are without churches.

I can help you find a church. Just send me an email, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest, Anthony Eugenio.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. Anthony, we have you back,

I assume. You're still with us? Yes, sir. Before the break, I was saying perhaps we should, not that we are the final answer on all things, not that we are great sages of wisdom necessarily.

You certainly more so than me. As a Christian, when I hear

Drew Brees really, in my opinion, demonstrate that he is ashamed of the gospel,

I'm sorry for saying it that harshly. And again, as I said before, he's risking a lot more than I am financially and with a career that is really extraordinary and has brought him into great fame and admiration globally.

He's risking losing that all. But at the same time, we are, as Christians, are not to fear men above God, and there have been men, women, and children who have gone into the flames of persecution, literally, who have been burned at the stake alive, that have been dismembered while alive, disemboweled while alive, because of their...

even something that today, even amongst, sadly, conservative and reformed

Christians, very often is viewed upon as trivial things, like whether or not you believe that the bread and wine of the

Eucharist are literally transformed into the body and blood of Christ. There are people who have died denying that, and denied because they believe the

Bible alone was their sole sufficient authority in all matters of faith, morals, and salvation.

And so, my response to Drew Brees, or to give an alternative way of answering that, is that I love

God above all humans, including my own spouse and children, and His Word is perfect and inerrant.

I am not going to deny the teachings of this Word, because it offends many.

And, therefore, I am not going to retract anything that I had previously said.

I am going to stand firm that the Bible is true, and if you are believing something that makes you offended by the

Bible, because the Bible is teaching something that is an impolar opposite to what you are believing or practicing, then you need to repent, and you need to align yourselves and your lives with what the

Bible teaches, and more importantly, you need to bow down to Jesus Christ, repent, and believe upon Him as your only hope for salvation, and as your only hope to enter into Heaven eternally.

That would be the minimal way that I would react, or I would hope to, even if he didn't bring up LBGTQ.

If he didn't want to bring up the unnatural and abominable details of that behavior,

I think that he could just say, I believe the Bible is true, if it offends you, it's not the

Bible that needs to change, it is you that needs to change. So perhaps you could give your own version of how you would respond to that kind of assault.

And keep in mind, I know that neither you or I are risking multi -million dollar careers.

Actually, I don't know you that well enough, maybe you are risking it. I've never looked into your checking account.

Go ahead. I think this is something that we could take a lesson from Greg Hochul, who wrote the book

Tactics, and how to handle situations like this, again, without compromise.

When I'm in a conversation with somebody, and I know that they're hostile to my position, I might preface it by saying, you know, a lot of times

I talk to people about my faith, and they get very upset at the things I believe.

I say, are you the type of person who is intolerant of other people's views, or are you the type of person who is willing to listen to what other people have to say?

And then I'll let them answer. And if they say that they're tolerant, then I'm happy to share what

I'm going to share. And I say, look, and I lay my position out, if they say they're intolerant, I'll say, well, why would

I even share my position with you if you're intolerant? However, you know, I would proceed to give that person the gospel.

It's law to the proud, grace to the humble. But I do like to ask the question just so that they understand that they discriminate, as we all do.

So discrimination is, again, in the proper context, we all discriminate when we're asking questions.

In fact, Drew Brees was discriminating against focus on the family without naming them. He was discriminating against that organization by distancing himself from it.

Exactly. I like to ask questions pertaining to different religions as well as my own.

I say, well, aside from Christianity, do you know what other religions teach about homosexuality?

Are you familiar with how Islam deals with homosexuals?

Do you discriminate against Muslims? Yeah. And now what

I'm doing is I'm pitting two of a specially protected class in America right now,

Muslims and homosexuals, and I'm kind of like making them bump into each other.

You know, isn't it amazing if you ask a Christian if they'll bake a cake for a homosexual and they say no, there's a huge persecution that comes out against the

Christian. However, when a Muslim says no, that's against my faith, they're celebrating. This is okay.

So why is it okay for the Muslim to say no, I'm not going to bake a cake for a homosexual, but it's wrong for the Christian to?

So, again, I highlight the discrepancies in the discrimination.

Why would you discriminate against a Christian but not a Muslim? Again, if we're living in America and we have free speech and I have the freedom to worship

God as I see fit, why would you be intolerant of my view?

In fact, my view of marriage and why the government should protect that union is so that we bring about the next generation of people.

You know, ask them, just do a survey. Say, how many people in this room are the byproduct of the union between a male and a female?

Everybody in the room is going to raise their hand. How many people in here are the product of the union between a male and a male or a female and a female?

No one! So that, to me, again, based on God's created order,

He defines His creation, He makes it the way He decides. It's this union between a man and a woman that actually proliferates society.

Without that union and without the protection of that union, society is going to go in a very, very bad direction.

And we see that happening right now. So why would you discriminate against me, who is promoting a biblical view of marriage, in fact, the view that Jesus took, one man, one woman, become one flesh for one lifetime.

Why would you discriminate against that, being that that is the very relationship that brought you into being?

And then just let them answer. Now, try to, I don't want to say try to reason with them, because, you know, they're in rebellion to God.

But do it in such a way, to be gracious, let my speech be seasoned with salt, so that they see that I truly do care about them as human beings, and as a fellow sinner,

I've been saved by grace. You know, this is a God who will extend His grace to you if you turn from your sin and trust in the payment

He's made on the cross, the most costly payment that anyone could make in the sacrifice of their own child.

So, you know, Christianity is the basis for our society.

The laws in the Old and New Testament provide the basis for our legal system.

To just discard that wholesale, I think, is a great folly. Yes, and even if Drew Brees wanted to bring up specifically the

LBGTQ community without seeking to appease them, or bow to them, or deny the scriptures in order to keep them happy, he could have said that he loves members of what is called the

LBGT community, where he loves people who practice homosexuality, and because he wants what's best for them, he believes they need to know what the scriptures teach about that behavior.

And what the scriptures teach about that behavior is that those who are involved in it, or even support it, as Paul says, because they are both condemned in the scriptures, not only those who are actively involved, but those that support it, are also in the risk of hellfire until they repent.

That the best thing, the most loving thing that he can do is to warn about this activity.

And whether you agree with me or not, whether you believe the Bible to be true or not, at least know that my motives are not out of hate.

Because I am a sinner saved by grace. I would have went to hell if I did not bow to Christ and embrace his atoning death as my only hope for salvation.

And since I have experienced the rescue of a merciful and gracious God from my sin and from the penalty of it,

I am urging you to join me in being rescued from our sin and the penalty of it by Jesus Christ.

Because he is the only way. He is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father but by him.

So please, look beyond your initial personal offense. Look beyond what you are not familiar with.

If you are not familiar with what the scriptures teach, you have to put aside your immediate outrage and read what the scriptures have to say.

Pray that the Lord would open up your eyes to what they include. And come from the point that you are not, quote, quote, holier than thou, that you would have gone to hell without the blood of Christ, just as anyone in the realm of homosexual activity will, or those who are involved in extramarital sex in a heterosexual way, all people who are not participating in the sexual restrictions according to God's word, which are exclusively for the marriage bed between a man and a woman.

But I may be rambling right now, but that is what I believe, that a faithful Christian needs to have some kind of response that would be including those elements.

And by the way, folks, it might interest you that a week from today, no, not a week from today, this

Monday, I should say, this coming Monday, September 23rd, Ryan Glesman is going to be my guest for the two hours.

He is the brother of the so -called husband of Pete Buttigieg, who is running for president, the openly homosexual candidate for president, who is mayor of South Bend, Indiana.

The man that Pete Buttigieg believes he is married to.

Of course, we as Christians know that this is not a marriage, and this man who is my guest's brother is not his husband.

The law says that he is, but we know that he is not, because this is not a marriage.

But Pastor Ryan Glesman, who is a pastor of a conservative

Christian congregation in the Church of God, Anderson, Indiana, which, although not

Calvinistic, is on the same page as I am in regard to marriage being exclusively for one man and one woman and many other central issues in the

Bible, including first and foremost the Gospel, that we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and to the glory of God alone.

But he is going to be my guest to talk about the false Christianity of Pete Buttigieg, and contrast it with the true

Christianity that is taught in the Scriptures. I just thought I'd let all of you know about that, because I think it's going to be a fascinating interview.

Yeah, the only... I would just add one thing. I mean, why stop at homosexuality?

There may be people who are listening here saying, well, yeah, I know homosexuals, and they deserve death, but maybe

I don't. But, you know, you read Paul's letters to the Corinthians, chapter 6. He says, which, you know, a lot of people can be that, sexually immoral.

So, it's not just homosexuality. It's adultery. Sexually immoral people who have sex outside of marriage.

It's people who are greedy. It's people who are thieves. People who are drunkards. People who swindle other people out of money.

We're all deserving of hellfire. People who are proud. People who are so proud they think that what they do can merit the favor of God and gain them entrance into heaven.

Right. And that's an affront to the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, because what you're basically saying is, that wasn't enough.

What I can do will satisfy the consequence of my sin. But what Jesus did, well, that might have been good, but it's certainly not enough to save me.

And that's arrogance. Amen. And we're going to get to our final break right now, and when we come back, we have two questions for you waiting.

We have one from a listener in North Carolina, and we have one from a mutual friend, Jerry. Okay.

Who is writing from Buffalo, New York. Did Jerry move there, or is he on vacation there? I'm speaking of Jerry Smith.

I'll mention his full name. Oh, sure. He's probably, I know he hasn't moved up there.

He's probably on business up there. Okay. Well, he's listening and wants to ask a question.

Hi, Reggie. People listening may not, most of your listeners have no clue why that is a funny statement.

You called him Reggie because I once, when I was interviewing him and Christopher McDowell on their efforts fighting the sin of abortion, the abomination of abortion,

I, throughout the interview, was calling him Reginald, even though his name is Gerald. I was calling him

Reginald, not on purpose. I just, for some reason, even though I've known him since the 1980s,

I believe, I, for some reason, kept calling him Reginald. But anyway, we're going to our final break, and if anybody wants to join us for the question of your own, if you want to get in line behind Grady in Ashboro, North Carolina, and Jerry from actually

Copeg, Long Island, who is writing from Buffalo, New York. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

chrisarnson at gmail dot com. Please, as always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence, your country of residence.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away. God willing, we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors. Grace Covenant Baptist Church As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

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Tell Pastor Andrew that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I'm Pastor Andrew Smith and I'd like to urge you to consider joining

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine

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The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient Scripture, dissemination of Scripture, to provide tools equipping believers and Christian apologetics with evidence for the

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James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new, beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

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Spread the word about FirstLoveRadio .org Don't forget folks, continue to pray for Joe Jackowitz.

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Joe Jackowitz, founder of FirstLoveRadio, whose ad you just heard, he is believed by his doctors to be in remission, and he was sent home from the hospital two weeks early to continue recovering more comfortably there, and so please continue to pray for him because as we, any of us who know folks that have had cancer have typically either personally experienced in our own families or amongst our own friends or through hearing about these individuals, we have heard about people that have gone into remission and then out of nowhere it seems they have, the cancer has returned and they have departed this earth tragically, so please continue to pray that Joe continues to demonstrate that he is truly in remission and that he is truly in good health and can expect a long future if God is pleased to grant him such, so please continue to pray in that end, please continue to reach out to him with encouragement and with your gratitude to him for FirstLoveRadio which live streams this program every day and we thank you so much

Joe for all you do for the body of Christ and we are delighted to hear the wonderful praise reports of your recovery and what could be an outright miracle because the doctor the key physician involved said he had never in his long history of being a specialist in leukemia seen somebody recover this rapidly we are now going to Jerry in Buffalo, New York who is actually from Copeg, Long Island, New York he has a question for our guest today,

Anthony Uvino regarding the Reformed Rookie Anthony, what would you say sets this podcast apart from other

Christian podcasts and what is the key thing that you want to see this podcast accomplish? Well, what sets it apart from all of the podcasts is certainly for the number one reason is the host he's a phenomenal speaker you know very well read and handsome sorry about that no, you know the

Reformed Rookie is designed to introduce people who may not know the doctrines of grace or understand

Calvinism or understand Reformed theology to just grapple with the basics, get them to wet their feet to learn a little bit more about it to introduce them in a correct way to the doctrines that we hold dear to show them why the

Reformation was necessary and why we still need to hold to those doctrines now because the church will stray from them again and has already and that will lead to more error so I put up little videos if you go to the website you can go to the video tab you can go scroll down to something called

Reformed Distinctives I do an introduction on what the Reformation was, what the doctrines of grace are, the history behind it, how they came about and how to get some more information on them as time goes on I'm hopefully going to be doing more and more of those videos, again if you go to the website reformedrookie .com

and you go to the video section you can scroll down, we have our pastor going through the

London Baptist Confession of Faith, so if you want to learn about that you can go there I also put up all 118 questions of Keach's Baptist Catechism on the video catechism tab, so if you if you go there you can listen to the whole catechism, the question and answer,

I do 10 questions at a time on a video you can do this for yourself and I do it with my kids in the morning, every week we take one video, we watch it for the whole week and I'm trying to get the catechism ingrained into their minds you can also download all of them, the audio for all of them to your iPod

MP3 player, whatever it is, and listen to it in the car, so as I'm going around with my kids, we're listening to the catechism and I love the catechism, it helps me tremendously and it's definitely going to help my kids.

In fact, Votie Bauckham wrote a book called Expository Apologetics and he explains just how important the catechism is, it basically answers all of the questions that we need to answer as Christians.

Well we are out of time and I apologize to Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, I'm going to save your question though and direct it to Ryan Glesman this

Monday, September 23rd, as we address the false Christianity of Pete Buttigieg I don't know how to pronounce that properly because we are also going to be re -airing the

Drew Brees apology to the LBGT community during that program, since it is very appropriate, but thank you so much for writing in again

Grady, and also for your constant and faithful financial support of Iantrop and Zion Radio. I want to remind you that the

New York Apologetics website is NewYorkApologetics .com NewYorkApologetics .com

and the website for Hope Reformed Baptist Church is HopeReformedLI .net HopeReformedLI .net, we hope to see you at the

Spurgeon Fellowship Conference on November 1st and 2nd it's a Friday and Saturday.

I want to thank you Anthony for being my guest today and I look forward to you coming back, I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who wrote in I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater