Jason Alligood Interview

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the

Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.�

In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the

Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of Her King. Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth and I�m your host today. Glad to be your host.

As you know, our format here at NoCoRadio, Mondays it�s a sermon that I preached at Bethlehem Bible Church in Central Mass.

Tuesdays, I talk to Pastor Steve, the Tuesday guy, and we talk about issues in the local church.

Thursdays, I usually, you know, it�s kind of positive, �Caleb Thursday, what does the Bible teach about a certain topic.�

Fridays, �Woodshed Fridays, we try to critique something and we try to instruct and warn the church about some kind of false teaching or an aberrational teaching.

But Wednesdays are probably my favorite days because we talk to pastors and authors and leaders in Christ�s Church and then we understand what their heartbeat is for ministry, what the

Lord has given them for gospel opportunities. And since it is Wednesday today, we have a special guest,

Jason Alligood is here, pastor teacher at Fellowship Bible Church. Jason, welcome to No Compromise Radio.

Hey Mike, thanks so much, man. It is a joy and I�m very humbled to be a part of your show.

I always recommend people listen to NOCO Radio and it�s, you know, it�s

James White, Mike Avendroth, you know, you�re right up there at the top, my friend. Well, when people say that,

I always say, you know, alphabetical order is given for a reason. That�s right. That�s right.

That�s right. So, Jason, you�re pastoring at Fellowship Bible Church. I want to let our listeners know,

I first found out about you through the Twitter universe and you were posting,

I don�t know exactly what you were posting, but it was so good, I thought, this guy is perfect for No Compromise Radio, standing up for the truth and standing up for the one who never compromised, the

Lord Jesus Christ, and I thought, he has to be on NOCO Radio. Yeah, well, thanks, man.

I, you know, I�m a fan of the Lord, I�m a fan of the

Bible, and I�m a fan of truth, therefore I�m a fan of programs like NOCO Radio, and I love following NOCO and others like you, you know, some people accuse you guys of being, you know, discernment bloggers or discernment podcasts, and hey, you know what, we need discernment, and so I�m thankful for the voices that are out there that are doing what you guys do, and it�s just, again, just a joy to be able to be with you today, so.

Jason, you�re a pastor, and so I know you think pastorally how to care for the flock that God has entrusted to you.

How do you teach your church through this very issue, that if we stand up for truth, then it means we have to stand against error, yet we don�t want to always be criticizing people all the time, but if we ever criticize, some folks think that�s all we do, and so how do you walk through people to think through the issue of being

Bereans from a scriptural perspective? Yeah, I think there�s a few ways,

Mike. You know this because you�re a pastor, there�s that macro level of shepherding, and then there�s maybe that next level downwards, that small group kind of setting, and then there�s the one -on -one discipleship opportunities that we have, whether formal or informal.

So, you know, I do what you do. We preach through books of the Bible, and that forces us into areas where we have to confront the error that is in our culture.

And so, you know, through illustrative means or other ways in the way the text brings up these issues, you know,

I�m not afraid to name names when it�s necessary, or point out a system of error and say, you know, �Look, the truth has always been a tax from the time of the garden.�

You know, that classic statement that we make about from the very beginning, the question is, �Has

God really said ?� And then we say, �Yes, indeed He did ,� and we stand upon that. Of course, we�re capable of making mistakes and seeking to tell the truth, and so I always tell my people, �Look,

I�m never going to lead you astray purposefully, but even if you hear me say something that doesn�t sound quite right,

I need for you to come and tell me so we can talk about that and work through the verbiage.� And that�s actually happened even in the short time that I�ve been in my current charge.

You know, I say something, I fumble through something, and it suddenly sounds like I think we need to be baptized in order to be saved, and so somebody comes and brings that to my attention, �Hey, you said this, but I don�t think you really meant that.�

And so, you know, in this world of technology, I go, �Oh, I did. I listened back, and now we�ve got to go through this whole big thing of editing and getting that out of there so it doesn�t get out in the public that Pastor Jason teaches, you know,

Baptismal Regeneration.� So there�s that macro level, just being forced to preach through those topics, and you do bring up the guys who are out there, you know, the

Joel Osteen, the Joyce Myers, the people that are just perpetuating falsehood.

And then in that small group level, you know, we actually have a small group that meets in our home, those come up in much more personal contexts, as people are working through issues in their life, and, you know, they use language maybe like, �The

Lord told me ,� or something like that. And in that setting, it�s a little more safe to say, �Hey, you know, what do you mean when you say that ?�

And kind of work through that in a very shepherding and gentle way, and that gives the opportunity for those other believers that are in that small group to kind of interact on that, and maybe they�re learning that there�s better language than, �The

Lord told me ,� and so there�s that level. And then there�s the level where, you know, that one -on -one level where somebody comes to you with a question about their life, they come to you with a tragedy, and then there�s that opportunity to just minister to that person one -on -one.

In fact, it was interesting, I had a lady a few weeks ago approaching me after the service, you know, you�re kind of spent, you just preached a sermon, you know, 45, 50 minutes of a sermon, and so your mind is a little bit kind of in that, you know what it�s like, that kind of foggy arena, and she comes up and she asks me about Beth Moore.

And I had to, you know, just say, �Hey, look, you know, in the past I think there were some helpful things, but currently

I think she�s a mystic, and I think she is just too loose on things that we need not be loose about.�

And that was it, you know, for her. She drew the line in the sand, she went back to her Bible study, she drew the line in the sand, and that caused a kerfuffle in the midst of those ladies.

And so she called me yesterday with, �Okay, I think we�ve found this kind of mediating ground, this other author, but she seems to be in the same camp as Beth Moore.

What do I do ?� And I said, �You know ,� I said, �I think you have to be careful not to jump ship just yet.�

You know, you be the discerning voice in that group of ladies, because they�ve heard you once on this, and now you have an opportunity to walk through this study.

This isn�t Beth Moore, this is somebody who maybe she�s affiliated with, but you have an opportunity to walk through with discernment and point out the areas where there might be question marks.

And I don�t know who came up with this phrase originally, I attribute it to Rick Holland, because that�s who I heard say it, you know, �You need to pick the flowers and leave the weeds.�

But at the end of that study, if there�s a pile of weeds and only a few flowers, that tells you something.

Well, Jason, I think that�s insightful pastoral wisdom, because there�s different ways we talk to people, right?

The radio show is different than a pulpit, than the way we talk to our kids or our family members.

And so what I was encouraged about as I was looking at your website at FellowshipBibleChurch, FBCPI .org,

you�re preaching through judges and Ruth, and so you obviously have to say, as this group of people, to use your subtext, awaiting a

Redeemer. They need a Redeemer, but if you�re preaching through judges and everybody�s doing right in their own eyes, isn�t there a time for admonition and for rebuke and for �this is the wrong way to do it�?

Where are the preachers who are going to stand up and say, �No, they�re few and far between these days.� Yeah, that�s exactly right.

And of course, you know, going through the book of judges is very, it�s a drudgery in some ways.

It�s just murky, and it�s ugly, and it causes people who don�t believe in the veracity, the inerrancy of the

Word to look and say, �What in the world is going on here ?� And then they use it as a weapon against us, against the inerrancy, and I just say, �Look, there�s a need for us to see the depravity of man to this degree, and to see it�s always been this way.�

And exactly right. We need to be preaching and saying, �This is not the way to live.�

And you know, the thing I find so interesting in the book of judges is the name

Yahweh, the name Lord, you know, �I AM ,� is invoked but never submitted to. I mean, you see

Yahweh�s name come up like he�s some sort of a, you know, token genie or something like that, and so they know the right verbiage.

There�s a section in there that I preach through that I say, �It�s the right God and the wrong theology ,� which of course leads to the wrong

God eventually, doesn�t it? And so, yeah, it�s murky, but that�s why you got to put

Ruth on the end of that thing. And that is the silver lining in this whole time of history in Israel where there just seems to be no hope, and then you�re reminded that there�s a remnant, that God always has his people, even in the midst of the murkiness.

Jason, tell us how you work through judges in a way that, number one, honors the author�s intention at a micro level, if you will, and then also talk about the

Lord Jesus Christ. And what I�m getting at is, of course we want to preach Christ, but with this redemptive historical movement that I think overall is good, is there a danger of finding

Jesus in verses where he�s not found? How do you work through that? Yeah, it�s a great question, and obviously a very difficult matter and a very much talked about topic.

You know, I don�t think that we can find Jesus� name in the text, because quite honestly, it�s not there.

But we get hints at this messianic promise when there is either a successful delivery of Israel or a failure, because you have the type, the anti -type kind of thing going on.

And so, I always like to say to my folks, you know, we have the advantage of viewing things from a New Testament perspective.

Not that we�re reading the New Testament back into the Old, but we know the trajectory. You know, we know where things are headed.

And in reality, to some degree, the saints of the Old Testament knew where things were headed, too, if they�re paying attention, which

I think if they�re saints, they are paying attention. But, you know, you have the promise in Genesis 315. We went through the

Pentateuch at a very high level last year at Fellowship Bible. And just to kind of trace that throughout the

Old Testament, at least the first five books there, is a very, I think, helpful process.

And then, of course, that expands as time goes on. God�s revelation is progressive, not only of Himself, as we get to know more about Him as the

Old Testament moves on, but we also get to know about His promise. You know, I don�t buy into Walt Kaiser�s theology, hook, line, and sinker, but he is my favorite

Old Testament teacher. And I think that that promise, that sort of, he calls it an �epigenetic tracing out of the

Old into the New� is a really helpful tool for us to see that. So, you know, I don�t say, �Hey, this verb or this word here in Judges, that�s a parallel, or that means

Jesus.� No, no, it�s a trajectory towards the ultimate Redeemer that they are awaiting.

And every time there�s a failure, they had to have, to some degree, or at least those who are faithful have some longing for something better, as is true with the sacrifices, right?

We�re going through Hebrews right now on Sunday morning. You know, there is this perpetuation of sacrifices over and over and over again, a continual reminder that we�re failures and we need a

Redeemer. Talking to Jason Alligood today on No Compromise Radio, and he is the pastor at Fellowship Bible Church.

Jason, speaking of Hebrews, and by the way, when I try to find a church if I�m out of town or visiting or on holiday,

I just go to the website and I don�t look at where the pastor has been educated first, although that�s an interesting secondary means, but I go to sermons and then see what the person has been preaching through verse by verse.

And of course, sometimes you can�t find that because they don�t. But when I go to FBCPI .org,

an exposition of Hebrews, and it�s just chapter 5, then chapter 6, chapter 7, teaching the whole counsel of God.

And I commend you for that. And I want to do the opposite of what we did with Judges.

Why do you think we as Christians, and sometimes even men in the pulpit, we�re preaching through the book of Hebrews, and it is so Christ -centered, the supremacy of Christ�s Son over angels, over Moses, over Aaron, over everyone over the old covenant.

And then when we get to Hebrews 11, then we talk about how great Abraham is. Why do we do that?

Yeah. I think because even though we�re against a man -centered theology, our bent is toward a man -centered theology.

And we want to have something to do with it. And yeah, I think if we don�t see the glory of Christ in chapter 11, and the gift of faith.

I mean, that�s how the whole thing starts out, right, is this is what faith is. And we know in and of ourselves, we don�t have that.

And that�s just, I think, to see it as the gift and the focus of those people is always upon God and what

God has promised. So I think, yeah, I think we have a tendency to do that because we struggle with being man -centered.

Would you agree with that, Mike? Is that your assessment of that? I think so. I mean, it�s almost the where�s Waldo kind of narcissistic bit of where I can find myself in the text.

And you know, sometimes in the epistles, I think we�re directly addressed. You know, the church is addressed, that�s true.

But you know, we go to the Gospels and Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, it�s all about Jesus. Now, that doesn�t mean there�s not a, you know, with the 10 lepers cleansed and only one said, �Thank you, this is�.

Can you say something about thankfulness? I think the answer is yes, but it must be secondary to why is

Luke writing about these lepers? It�s because it�s not about them. It�s there�s only one man who can heal lepers, and he�s the

Messiah prophesied of in the Old Testament. And so, Jason, tell us a little bit about your church,

Peoria, Illinois. If someone were to stumble in on a Sunday morning, what could they expect?

Yeah. You know, I don�t know how to describe churches anymore in regard to size, because you hear so many different things, but we�re a typical -sized church.

I�ll put it that way. So, you would find, you know, somebody greeting you at the door, you would find a loving, very warm congregation.

That is the constant thing I hear from people who come to visit. It was interesting,

I had one of my friends who goes to another local church here recently come and visit just to be an encouragement.

He and his wife and his daughters came, and his wife said, �Boy, your church is so friendly.�

So, they would find a very friendly and warm body, and then we would, you know, walk through, for lack of better terms, hopefully,

I hope people would find it to be a Christ -centered, God -centered liturgy. In other words, an order of service that points people not to self, but to Christ, to God, to the fact that the

Spirit is needed in that service to instruct us from God�s Word.

And so, we, you know, start off sort of typically with some announcements and kind of try to get through that as quickly as we can, and then get into a pastoral prayer.

And I seek to try to set things up, if I could put it that way, talking about sort of our four elements that we see as important, which is exalting the

Triune God, edifying and equipping the saints, and then that the Lord would send us out to evangelize the lost.

I try to pray for other faithful local churches in that pastoral prayer, because I want our folks to recognize that we're not the only game in town, if I could put it that way.

There's other faithful men that morning doing exactly the same thing with their congregation. We try to get the elders up in front of the folks as much as possible so that they know that, you know,

Jason isn't the only pastor here. We have a team of faithful men. They're lay elders, but they shepherd so well.

I mean, I'm just blown away, brother, by these men who I have come to serve with in the last two and a half years, just faithful, faithful shepherds.

And then we sing some songs that are God -centered. You know, if they say anything about me, it's about how

I'm a wretch and God is not. And I need to be reminded of that. And then we, you know, we collect gifts and offerings as a part of our worship, because I think that's what 2

Corinthians 9 says it is. It's something that we do from our heart. And, you know, the people know, hey, this is how

Jason is paid. This is how the ministry goes forward. They're very, very giving folks. And then

I preach. And as you've already mentioned, I preach through books in the Bible. And we always have a view of two people in the audience.

There's the believer, and probably underneath that category of believer is people who are just there, and they're just elated to be with the people of God.

And they just had a great week. And this is just a continuance of the worship that they've had. And then we know there are people that are hurting and they need truth that morning that will maybe not salve necessarily the wound, but maybe put a little bit of salt on the wound, you know, and we know that's going to happen.

But I always pray for the conviction and the comfort of the Holy Spirit in our service. And then we also recognize that there may be people who have professed faith in Christ their entire life, or they just show up and they don't know

Christ at all. And so I always want to be, in a sense, gospel -centered. So the gospel comes out, and I don't want that to be forced, but people need to hear about Jesus, and that's who it's all about.

And so at the end, we don't have an altar call, but we invite people to speak with one of our elders if they have any questions or need prayer or anything like that.

And of course, I wait at the back of the worship center and greet people. And sometimes things are brought up there and I say, hey, can we talk about this?

We set up an appointment and talk later. And then we go into a time of fellowship together.

We enjoy coffee and doughnuts, kind of typical, you know, Christian addictions. And we just enjoy a little bit of fellowship time together.

And then we actually do our Sunday school hour after our worship hour. And so we get some real intense instruction.

One of our guys, our adult guys, is teaching through the Book of Acts, verse by verse. I'm currently teaching through the

Book of Mark, verse by verse, with kind of a young adults kind of class. And so that's kind of a typical Sunday morning at that fellowship time.

Well, Pastor Jason, I say this with all sincerity, that's exactly the kind of pastor that I would want to shepherd my soul and to teach me.

And so I'm thankful for your education and your mentors who would teach you those very things.

Tell us about the Gospel Institute. What are you trying to do with the

Institute? Yeah, that's actually the ministry of another church here in our area called

Bethany Baptist Church. And they're a part of a fellowship called Bethany Fellowship of Churches.

And they have a couple of church plants in the area. And boy, they've been so kind to reach out to guys like myself, another good friend of mine,

Gary Geer, you mentioned the podcast, he and I do a podcast together. And these guys have just been so kind to reach out to us.

And they already have had established for many years now, what's called the Gospel Institute.

And it's essentially a lay Bible Institute. And I've had the joy of teaching hermeneutics there, or Bible study methods might be another way to call it.

And boy, you talk about feeling, you know, the fire, the weight of something that's kind of a foundational class for everything else.

These folks walk through, you know, if you can't tell someone how to take a passage and interpret it and understand it, then systematic theology doesn't matter.

And church history doesn't matter. And so I feel the weight of that as I'm teaching people, you know, how to study their

Bibles, but they do offer, you know, kind of those Bible college seminary type classes, systematic theology, the guys that are teaching that are teaching through Grudem's systematic theology.

And then they have some church history classes that are really great. And then now they've added some shepherding and counseling type classes to the whole curriculum, which is great.

And, you know, just teaching people how to, or equipping people, you know, how to minister, how to study the

Bible for themselves, how to teach, how to counsel people, which I think is so important in our churches today.

You know, we've farmed out counseling, and people feel like there has to be this expert. And we're saying, no, this is the

Word of God, we need to be encouraging each other, edifying one another, Ephesians, sporing one another from the

Word of God, if I could put it that way. Jason, you know, what I'm encouraged by is that the Lord is building

His church and that there are hundreds and thousands, I guess that's better, thousands of men, just like you behind the scenes, faithfully teaching week by week.

How many men did we see at the Shepherds Conference? And we say to ourselves, you know, we're not the only ones who do this, you know, sequential

Bible teaching and exalting Christ Jesus from the Word objectively and not subjective mystical things.

And so I'm just thankful that God has His men strategically placed, parachuted behind the scenes, even in Peoria, Illinois.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, you mentioned something about if you stumbled in, well, you don't really stumble into Peoria, it has to be a destination because nobody vacations in Peoria.

Well, Jason, thank you for being our guest today on No Compromise Radio. I want to have you back on to talk about your podcast.

I got 30 seconds. Tell me how they access your podcast quickly. Yeah, it's wallcarp, or it's wordpress .com.

Oh, I'm messing this up. wallcarpradio .wordpress .com. Well, they type in your name and Google it as Pastor.

They can find you at D -O -O -G -I -L -L -A for Twitter.

Jason Alligood here on No Compromise Radio. Thank you for your ministry. Thank you for your partnership in gospel -centered preaching to exalting

Christ Jesus. Thanks again, Mike. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible -teaching church, firmly committed to unleashing the life -transforming power of God's Word through verse -by -verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston.

You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff or management.