WWUTT 1190 Q&A Family Revival, Apostles and Prophets, the Gift of Discernment?

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How can we turn this pandemic into a family revival? What are the offices of apostle and prophet in Ephesians 4, 11?

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And how can we help a charismatic or Pentecostal see the truth? The answer is when we understand the text.

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This is when we understand the text, daily Bible study in the word of Christ. For if we abide in his word, we are truly his disciples.

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Please tell your friends about our ministry at www .utt .com. Here once again is

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Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. So I've received quite a few emails. I wouldn't say it's a lot, but it's a few.

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Okay. Of some folks who are saying that this lockdown, the quarantine, the shelter in place, whatever you wanna call it, is really starting to cause them some depression.

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Yeah, I get that. And I don't wanna read anybody's emails because I get that they're personal and I don't wanna make light of any of that, especially not having asked anybody's permission if I could read something like that.

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But I'm just noticing that, a pattern of emails saying, pray for me because this has been really hard right now.

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Yeah. I got one email from somebody who said they just moved to a new area. Oh, man. And so they had not even found a new church yet.

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Oh. This stuff is starting to weigh on some people. And we did have the announcement from the president yesterday that he's gonna start opening things back up again, but he's leaving it in the hands of the governors.

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And if you have a Democrat governor, it's gonna take longer to open things back up than it will with a

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Republican governor. That's just how this is gonna go. So let's pray. Let's spend a little bit of time here at the very beginning in prayer.

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Our heavenly father, we know that you are the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you are the father of mercies and the

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God of all comfort. You comfort us in all of our affliction so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort that we ourselves have received from God.

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The assurances that we have according to your word, that we have nothing to fear, no reason to be dismayed for you, the

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Lord, our God is with us. And as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, we are growing in Christ likeness, not being too alarmed at the fiery trial that comes upon us to test us as if something strange were happening to us, but this is ultimately for our good that we may not see it now.

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May we trust in the Lord, our God with all of our heart and know that these circumstances are for our good and ultimately for your glory.

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For as we share in Christ's suffering, so also we will share abundantly in his comfort that he provides for us.

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If we are afflicted, we are comforted according to the word of Christ, for we know

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Jesus is with us. He said to his disciples, I will not leave you as orphans. I will come to you.

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And at the end of Matthew, behold, I am with you always, even to the very end of the age.

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May we be reminded of these things. You have not forgotten us. We have not been abandoned.

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We are not alone for God is with us, even in these moments where we feel afflicted, where we feel lonely and afraid and depressed and uncertain about the future.

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May we know that we trust in the Lord God who is overall, he is sovereign over all things.

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None of this has happened outside of your will or your sovereignty. You reign and we can take comfort in that, that our hope may not be shaken.

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I pray that we will rely all the more upon you, not on ourselves, but on God who raises the dead.

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You have delivered us from the deadly peril of sin and the death that is the wages of sin through faith in our

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Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. So uplift us with your willing right hand and carry us through these days that are so troublesome to us now, but they do not even compare to the glory that awaits us if we endure to the end.

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Keep us steadfast, continue the work in us that you began in Christ Jesus our

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Lord until the day of Christ. And it's in his great name that we pray.

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Amen. Amen. Where I wanna go next, Votie Bauckham did a special podcast interview with Josh Bice yesterday on the

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G3 Facebook page. Also on the G3 YouTube page. He talked about some things recommending that families do in the midst of this time and in our shelter in place, stay at home orders.

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And one of the things that Votie said, he said, you need to be thankful that this has happened. And that's even for myself who has not been like vexed by things that are going on.

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I think that we've gone too far with this. Becky knows that, she's heard my rants.

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I think it was right that there were certain places that got locked down, but I don't think everybody needed the same level of lockdown.

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The same level of quarantine and shelter in place. You know what I mean? But one thing that I've not done well in expressing is my thankfulness for this situation.

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I actually am thankful for this, but it's just kind of become faux pas to say that. So I haven't, and I regret that I haven't.

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I should be shepherding people more in the direction of, be thankful that we have been forced to shelter in place, that you are at home with your family.

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Now I know that some have fractured families. Well, great. This is maybe a time of family revival.

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And that's the way that Votie Bauckham had put that in the interview that he did with Josh Bice. So some may have had good functioning families before this lockdown occurred.

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Some may have had dysfunctional families, but this time could be utilized to strengthen the family, to focus on those things that as a family we had not been doing.

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And listening to him was even convicting for me because even though I felt like we have done pretty good. When is listening to Votie not convicting?

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Yeah, that's true. I mean, really. That's a really good point. Anyway, continue. Every time you listen to Votie, it doesn't matter how spiritually healthy you think you are.

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Or how many times you've heard the same thing. That too. Every time. It's like, I have heard him preach this before.

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Oh, yeah. I should have known that was coming. If you can't say amen, you better say ouch.

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That's the Votie Bauckism. Yeah. But even listening to him, I was thinking, you know, we have done fairly good at prayer and devotions and singing time.

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But when the whole lockdown thing happened, I think I got worse at that.

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Maybe it was just taking for granted, hey, we're together all the time now. It's a schedule thing too.

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Yeah. We're not keeping a schedule. You're not in routine anymore. Nope. Routines out the window.

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You gotta find a new groove. Yeah. It's not, you know, things that, oh, this is

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Monday, so I have these things going on. It's like, wait. Was today Monday or was it yesterday?

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Yep. You know, just everything's blurred. All throughout Thursday, Becky had to remind me of what

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I was doing today. I'm like, it's Thursday, babe. Uh -huh, yeah. Yeah, I'm like, great. No, it's Thursday.

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Yeah, yesterday was funny day for you. It was. So at six o 'clock, I come upstairs from my study.

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Yeah, it was pretty late for you to start supper. Yeah, come out at six o 'clock. Because usually you'd make supper and everything.

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Especially on Thursday, I got to get it done earlier because we got Bible study at 6 .30. So I came out. Because we usually start eating at six.

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Yeah. I know, I came out of my cave then. I sent the kids down and everything. Well, Zej always comes and bothers me.

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I know, I know. But Aria too. Was it Aria? Yeah, I sent Aria. She said she was hungry and I was like, you better go.

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But see, that's the thing with Aria too. She's always telling me she's hungry at like four. You've gotta wait.

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Yes. We're not having supper yet. So anyway, we got to six o 'clock. I finally came out of my cave.

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And I came upstairs. You say it like you're all by yourself all day long. Yeah. I know,

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I mean, kids coming in here interrupting me constantly. Constantly. And then I said, hey, well, let's get the movie started because we started a movie the night before.

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Well, let's finish the movie tonight. Becky's like, um, no. And you thought I was kidding. No, I thought you were seriously, like you had planned something you wanted to watch.

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And so you really were telling me, no, you're not watching your movie. I've got something I wanna watch. I'm like, babe, no, we gotta finish our movie.

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And then she reminded me, you have Bible study in 20 minutes. Oh, right.

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I totally forgot about that. And I should have started supper a long time before that. And I didn't get that done.

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So I just told Annie to do some chicken nuggets for the kids. And then in the evening, we got the kids to bed.

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We said prayers, got everybody upstairs, settled down. There was a thunderstorm here on Thursday night.

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So we had to get the girls settled down with all of that even. And then suddenly I'm sitting down and I'm pulling up our show.

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We're like, okay, here we go. We're gonna watch our show. Becky's like, um, podcast? Oh, right.

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I was like, are we not? Do you have other plans? I mean, you know, you got this tonight, you're good.

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Schedule is totally off. Yeah. Schedule is just not there.

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Thursday was just, I was totally been messed up. So anyway, back to Vodie. So the problem has been, we haven't been keeping a regular schedule.

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So even I'm realizing, hey, there's been things that I need to be doing better. We as a family finished the man who split time the other day.

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Yeah, that was amazing. We've been going through that together. That's a good book that you could look up. So go to wretched .tv and look in their store and look for the book, the man who split time.

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And it's 22 proofs to know that Jesus is God. Todd Friel and Phil Johnson, who wrote it together.

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We went through it together as a family. So - It's short, sweet. It is, yeah. Little devotional book.

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If you do this as a family, like every night during a week, a regular week, could be seven days.

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But if you just do it five days a week, you should be able to get done with it in five days. Maybe go through it and, okay, we'll do one, two, and three on day one.

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You know, that sort of thing. Yeah. If you did three a day, you would get through it in a week, seven days. So it's 22 proofs.

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Maybe one extra. I was gonna say, uh -huh. I got my math right. I know there's a remainder in there.

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Give or take. I just felt like I had to add that in case

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I got an email. Seven times three is not 22 yet. I'm just sitting over here smiling at you. Uh -huh, uh -huh.

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So what else are some other things that you could do as a family? Yeah. And that's kind of what he was talking about with Josh Bice, especially when you're out of the routine of going to church regularly on Sunday.

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So you don't even have church that you're doing as a family right now. Right, well, pretty much, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're not going.

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Yeah, you're not going. So hopefully you're pulling that up still on Sunday. And watching it on Sunday or whatever it is you happen to do is still not the same thing.

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It's not. One of the things that Voti pointed out is with your family, you shouldn't make your kids feel like it's the same thing.

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This is different. Right. So don't be like. Don't help them grow up in the thinking, the realm of, oh yeah, everything online is the same as it is on person.

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No. Yeah, don't develop that mentality of, well, we're going to church. No, no, no. I mean, we have a hard enough time putting our phones down and I didn't even grow up with that.

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Yeah, right. So. Right. Yeah, anyway. So he's giving some ideas on how we can do a family revival.

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How can you be more disciplined in your family time, growing closer to one another, being disciplined in these things.

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And that's one thing that he was sure to label it as. This is a discipline. Yeah. That we're not doing this to make it fun, even though there should be joy in it.

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Right. But it's a regular discipline. It's intentional. Yeah, right. We got to do it intentionally.

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Okay. What time of the day are you going to do it? You don't have to do it in the morning. And I know that some people kind of get discouraged with that because they try to plan family time in the morning and then it doesn't happen.

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And then you go through the entire day going, well, we should have done family time this morning. Yeah. So if it's better for your family to do it at night, then plan for it in the evening.

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Yeah. Just decided this time when we get to the evening, everything's shutting off. We're going to sit down and go through the scriptures.

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We're going to go through catechism together. We're going to sing some songs together, pray together. The exact quote from Voti was, this is not house arrest, but a call to family revival.

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So in that way, we can be thankful that this has happened. And all of those that have prayed for revival,

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I mean, how many times did we hear it in the past year? And here we've got a chance to do that.

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And here it is. Right. Yeah. So take advantage of that. Our country's not going to be the same.

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The economy's not going to be the same after this. The world's not going to be the same. Yeah, the whole world's not going to be the same. But you can grow in faith with your family and especially training up your children in the discipline and the instruction of the

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Lord. This is best opportunity we've ever had. Yes. To be able to do that. So be intentional.

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Yes. Do it. Be thankful for our pandemic. I know that you might even know people who are getting sick and maybe even know people who have died, maybe not directly from COVID -19, but it could have been from some of the other medical problem that was just exacerbated by the fact that we've got this pandemic that's going on.

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But still be thankful for these days that the Lord is indeed working in this and there are certain things that he's exposing and shutting down and maybe even bringing about revival.

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Adam Ford, who is the founder of the Babylon Bee and he's also the editor of the

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Discern, a news resource that we have online. He has said that one of the things this has proven is that the family is still the basic building block of a society.

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Amen. And I can tell you, last year, I just felt like I was so busy all the time, no matter how many things

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I said no to, I still felt like I was so, so busy and wrapped up in, okay, we gotta get this done to get this done to get this done.

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And it's just like a checklist. And so now I have the opportunity and I'm not,

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I gotta admit, I'm not really using it wisely because I'm just kind of enjoying the fact that we're not having this and this and this and this and this to do, but that gets old too.

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Yeah, right. Yeah, well, you can get, I mean, you can get lazy and just get glued to your screen.

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I'm just as susceptible to that as anybody. So here are some tips from Vodie Bauckham on this family revival that you can be having.

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And I'll probably do this in a video format too because I just think everything that he said here was great. Of course it was.

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Number one, he says, keep this simple. If you try to make this complicated, then you'll get discouraged and you won't continue doing it.

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So however you arrange your family time and be in devotionals and things like that, make it simple.

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Don't make it complicated, keep it simple. And then number two, he even outlines what those simple elements are.

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Awesome. Read, sing, pray and memorize. So you're reading the scriptures together.

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You can sing songs together. You are praying together. And then there's even memorization you're doing together, which can either be memorizing scripture or you're memorizing catechism.

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You're going through catechism together. And so you pick one catechism question. You do that all week long. Ask the question, give the answer.

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You could go through a statement of faith like the London Baptist Confession, 1689. You could do that together because that gives you good even kind of Q &A through that basic statements of belief.

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You'll have every statement that's given. There will be some scriptures that will go along with that to do further study and understand how the framers of these faith statements came to that understanding by what passages of scripture, things like that.

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Let's go through this in order. Read, sing, pray, memorize. What do you read? Ooh, knock my thing here.

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Well, first of all, you're reading the Bible. If you subscribe to Table Talk Magazine. Yeah, that's a great devotional.

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That's a very helpful resource. We mentioned the man who split time. If you go through the scriptures together,

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I would make sure that your older kids who know how to read have them open their

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Bibles and read it with you. So dad, don't just be the guy that's there with your Bible open.

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You're sharing it with everybody else. If it's Bible study time, everybody's got their Bibles open. So you're teaching them how to read it, pointing out verbs.

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What's the point of this text that we've read here? And then if you're like cross -referencing, you can have each one of them look up one verse.

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So that way it goes a little faster too. Yeah, what do you read out of the scriptures? Well, you can all decide to go through a gospel together.

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How much do your kids know about the ministry of Jesus? So you're helping them understand that.

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You can go through basic Bible stories, chapters of the Bible, things like that. If you search my blog,

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I can't remember how far back this goes. This might be either the end of December or the beginning of January. But I did a 40 -day outline of essential chapters of the

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Bible. And you can read that. I think it was in January. You think it was back in January? I think so, because you did it for the church before that.

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And then you put it on your blog a little later. Yeah, so you could find that.

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You could utilize that and even help your family catch the highlights of the Bible. So what are the key passages

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I need to know? And then I get the story of the Bible. That's what that blog does.

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In the description of this podcast, I'll put a link to that blog in there. That'd be good.

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So look for, in the description of the podcast, look for a link to the blog that has the 40 -day Bible study from Genesis to Revelation, outlining kind of like those key passages, those key texts.

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You could find something like that. You could go through a gospel together, a

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Matthew together. You could do what Votie Bauckham recommended is, you've got 31 Proverbs, 31 chapters of Proverbs.

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So in a month with 31 days, you're reading a chapter of Proverbs every day. Or with the

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Psalms, you do the daily Psalm. What is the daily Psalm? Well, you have 150

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Psalms. And if you divide that by five, five days in a week, five weekdays, then you've got three.

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So then you can go through three Psalms in a day, and then you're gonna get through all 150

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Psalms. Am I saying this right? So 30 days, five times three, 150. In the span of a month, you've gotten through the

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Psalms. What are you laughing at? Five times three is 150. Five times 30. 30 days in the month, five.

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Boy, my math has been bad this episode. I mean, I was still tracking, but it was just funny. I couldn't help it.

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This is what lockdown is then. It's my chair that's squeaking. Every time your chair squeaks, I know. I keep looking at the door because I think a child is gonna come in here needing to go potty.

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It's just me moving. I have to re -situate. Anyway.

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Okay, so Psalm of the day. So if you, yeah, divide it up by three. So you're doing three

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Psalms every day. So on day one, you're doing, no, not five Psalms a day.

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Five Psalms. Five Psalms a day for 30 days would take, okay, that's a, however you wanna break this up.

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I mean, if you wanna go ahead and keep continuing on past, you know, hopefully we get out of our homes by then, but you know, whatever.

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However you decide to break this up. So how the Psalm of the day works is on day one of the month, you've got

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Psalm, well, that wouldn't work because that'd be too many. I was gonna say you have

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Psalm one. I was gonna ask what you do when you get to 119. Psalm one,

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Psalm 51, and Psalm 101. I think that's how it works. Then day two, you have Psalm two, Psalm 52, and Psalm 102.

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Okay. There you go, that's it. I was like, the formula's in my head somewhere, but I've been so bad with my math. You keep saying three, and I was like, that doesn't make it.

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So you're doing three Psalms a day. In a month, you'll get through all 150 Psalms. Day three, you've got

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Psalm three, Psalm 53, and Psalm 103. Yes. So you get how that works? All right.

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There you go, Psalm of the day. Good luck on however you wanna break that up when you get to Psalm 119.

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Again, you know your family. You know their attention span. Yes. Maybe you just wanna do it one

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Psalm at a time. I don't know. Anyway. And by the time we get out of lockdown or whatever you call this, by then, hopefully you guys would have a good habit going and they would want to continue it.

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Yeah, right. This is a good habit -forming exercise. Yes. Like I said, discipline.

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So you're becoming disciplined in this. So there's some ideas on reading, what you can do to read. Yes, next.

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Then you got singing. What do you sing? Well, sing the old hymns. And I hope you've got a hymnal. I remember when

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I was a kid, I remember hearing this when I was a kid. It's stuck with me ever since. Johnny Erickson Tata used to have a show called

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Johnny and Friends. I don't know if she still has this show or not, but when I worked at the Christian radio station I was at, we aired it.

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Okay. So I would listen to Johnny and Friends. And even in interviews that she would do - I think that's how she is on Twitter.

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Is Johnny and Friends. Is it Johnny and Friends? Okay. Even when she would do interviews on Family Life Today or on Focus on the

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Family, she would even talk about this here. The two books that every family needs, a

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Bible and a hymnal. You just need to decide what hymnal you want. Now, I would recommend the Grace Hymnal, which comes from Grace Community Church, John MacArthur's Church.

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You could also do the Trinity Hymnal. That'd be my second recommendation. There's the Baptist Hymnal. If you're of a particular denomination, your denomination probably has like an official hymnal for the denomination.

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Yeah. So yeah, just grab a hymnal. And these are the hymns that you and your family go through. If you've got someone, more than one person in the family that knows a musical instrument, getting everybody together and learning that hymn.

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Yeah. And you sing the same hymn all five days of the week or seven days if you're doing seven day devotionals.

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Every day of the week, you sing that hymn. And then next week, it's a new hymn. So they're learning the hymn, they're learning all the verses.

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Maybe you just do one or two verses one night, then you add in another verse the next night, then you add the next verse after that until you've got the whole hymn memorized and practiced and then you move on to the next hymn.

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That's what you would sing. I think that's the best discipline. I know that there's some modern songs that maybe your kids are really into and something you could do, but I would recommend the hymns.

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Our little ones still love the classic Sunday school songs. Oh yeah. Give me oil for my lamb, keep me burning, burning, burning.

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This little light of mine, I love that one. I've got the joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart. So all those classic

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Sunday school songs, they still love those. And we'll sing those and even do something silly with them on the guitar because the little girls just love to dance.

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Yes, they do. Then you have pray. The simple elements again, read, sing, pray.

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What do you pray? Well, these five things that we have laid out for us in scripture, you pray for kings and those who are in authority, as it says in 1

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Timothy 2. So you'd be praying for your mayor and maybe know who your mayor is, what the person's name is, governor, state representatives or senators, your national representatives and senators, the president of the

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United States, so on and so forth. And I do have to put in a little tidbit of don't make it an angry prayer.

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Be genuine and do pray for their wisdom, for their salvation, for the courage.

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Because maybe they do know that they should be stepping up in a way, but they just don't have the courage to do it, to go against the grain.

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So pray for courage for them and for the Lord to bless them. I mean, these are serious that no matter how you feel about them, that you can pray a serious prayer for them.

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Yes, yeah, yeah. Not just angry, mean prayers, bitter. Sarcastic.

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Right, yeah, praying genuinely for this person, especially for their salvation if they are not saved. Yes. So that's number one, pray for kings and those who are in authority.

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Number two, pray for those who lead the flock, your pastors, elders at your church, deacons.

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Pray for one another, so that would be family members and members of your church. Pray for God to send missionaries and preachers to share the gospel.

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Oh, amen. So those that are gonna go out into the harvest. Yeah. We pray for neighbors and those who need to hear the gospel.

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So there's your five things to pray for. Yeah. You can probably think of some other things, but narrowing it down to those five.

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What do you memorize then? So we have read, sing, pray, and then finally memorize. Well, you can pick a passage of scripture and that's gonna be your main passage of scripture that you're memorizing, just one verse.

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Or like I said before, you do a catechism. A chapter of Psalm, what is that? One. Psalm one.

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17. There's not 17 verses in Psalm one. No, I said 117.

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I wasn't finished with my one. Oh, Psalm 117. Yes. Which is just two verses. You kind of jumped in there.

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Got it. But I was making it a big deal because it's like a whole chapter. That's right.

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Be proud. I memorized a whole chapter, you know. You can do that. Memorize an entire chapter of the

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Bible and start with Psalm 117. Yes. We're gonna do that on the study this coming Thursday.

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And so finally, Vodie says, and I've mentioned this already, he says, don't make it fun.

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If we strive to make it fun, we'll constantly be trying to outdo ourselves.

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And I think really this is the problem with the pragmatic church as it exists today. This pragmatism in which -

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Giving away an iPad or whatever. Yeah, it might be, and they'll - Or a TV. They'll apply some things where they'll be doing some giveaways to draw people in.

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Or when they're there, they do gimmicks with like dancers and singers on stage. Give you the feels. Yeah, some sort of series that's connected to pop culture.

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So they're constantly trying to outdo themselves. And that's why the evangelical church in America is in the shambles that it's in.

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And I hope that this pandemic that's existing right now is cleansing the church of that. No joke.

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I hope that they're getting all of that out, that it lasts long enough to get all that out.

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You don't get the same feeling online that you do in person. So I'm hoping that that disconnect from their church, they realize what it is they're actually listening to and not just in it because of the atmosphere.

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You kind of get wrapped up in what's going on around you rather than what's actually being said.

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So I hope that with the disconnect through watching it online would help them look elsewhere for the truth.

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Yeah, I hope that in watching it online, they're looking at it going, boy, this was silly. Yeah, I can't believe

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I did this, you know? Like those moments. All this atmosphere and - There's very humbling moments.

28:27

Entertainment thing that we're going, anyway. So this, even when we - So don't make it fun. When we try to do that in church, we're trying to do that with family devotionals.

28:36

And Bockham says, you know, I'm not trying to be a Scrooge here, but it's not the point.

28:42

The point is not to make it fun. Yes, you can have some enjoyment out of it. We should find joy in these things.

28:48

Right, definitely. But the responsibility is what's in front of us, the discipline, not the desire to make it fun.

28:55

So we shouldn't pick the most boring songs to sing or -

29:00

Yeah, don't deliberately make it boring. Or try to memorize Psalm 119.

29:06

Yeah, right, right away. I'm gonna make this as miserable for you as possible. But ultimately, God is the goal.

29:12

Why are we doing this? Because we wanna worship the Lord. Because we wanna grow in godliness. Because we wanna grow in knowledge and understanding of his truth.

29:20

So that's why we do it. Not because we're trying to have a family fun time. You can have family fun time.

29:26

Of course. But make the devotional and time with the Lord a serious pursuit.

29:32

So the kids understand the reverence that is involved in this, not the goofing off -ness.

29:38

Right. And it's unfortunate that as a dad, I have to tell my kids to settle down and be quiet when we're doing devotionals.

29:45

I don't like that. You don't enjoy that at all. No, I don't. I just wish you'd sit and enjoy this.

29:52

Of course, I can't make that happen. Right. But I hate having to put that in there. But yeah, they do need to sit still and listen.

29:59

And that's part of doing the devotions together. Yeah. So for littles, when doing school,

30:09

I realize that they pick up a lot while they're even coloring. So do you recommend for the littles possibly having a

30:19

Bible coloring page or something? No. No? No, not for family devotions.

30:25

I mean, if you're dealing with having your kids like that in church, that might be one thing.

30:30

But for family devotions, a parent can hold, even dad who's leading the devotions can put a child in a lap or something like that.

30:38

There can be a way to help them feel involved without putting them in a place where they now feel disconnected.

30:45

I'm not in the same thing that they're doing because I'm coloring a page. Okay. So we need to find ways in which we're all involved in doing the same thing together.

30:54

It might mean certain things you're really dumbing down for the sake of the five and three -year -old.

30:59

Right. But if a family begins with a husband and a wife, as all families should begin that way, and they don't have any children together, well, they're regular in Bible study and prayer as a husband and a wife.

31:14

Then they start having kids. They're still doing the same things they were doing before, but the number of people who are there are just more now.

31:22

And it's increasing. And you're helping them to understand these things and raising them up in this. And so if the discipline starts early, it's easier to maintain it the longer it goes, even though you're adding more people to it.

31:35

But you find ways of teaching your children. Just as Becky said, you know your kids, you know their attention span, their learning level, things like that.

31:45

So find ways that you're including them and helping them learn as you go through this process. Right. And I think it's great practice that,

31:52

I mean, they witness you doing it and they are able to do that.

31:58

And I think that makes them very excited that they get to do something the olders get to do that they don't normally get to participate in.

32:05

That's true, right. We get to feel a little more grown up. Yes. Which is always enjoyable for them. Yeah, that's right.

32:11

Well, thank you for Vodi and Josh Bice having that conversation.

32:16

And you can still find it on the G3 Conference YouTube page. I went to their Facebook page and did not find the video.

32:24

They had the live stream on Facebook, but then I guess when it was over, it didn't post. Sometimes they don't record it,

32:31

I guess. Yeah, maybe not for Facebook, but it was on YouTube. So you can watch the video on YouTube. Awesome.

32:37

Just find the G3 Conference YouTube page. This is Friday. And of course on Friday, we take questions from the listeners and you can send those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

32:48

Dear Pastor Gabe, my name is Michael and I live in the UK, London. Fun. I wanna come visit you sometime.

32:55

I've followed your ministry for ages. What more specifically? And it's been a real blessing.

33:01

For ages, five years. We've been doing this now for five years. I need your help.

33:08

There's so much confusion around prophets and prophecy where I am. One proof text that is used is

33:15

Ephesians 4, 11 through 12. And another is 1 Corinthians 14. Please, could you shed some insight on these two scriptures?

33:22

Those two places in the Bible are being used as evidence of the important role a prophet slash the prophetic has in New Testament churches.

33:33

My own belief is that God doesn't or isn't speaking through prophets anymore.

33:38

But I'm being told prophets are needed as part of the five -fold ministry, which needs to be in every church, by the way.

33:46

So if I planted a church, I'll need to make sure that I have an apostle. That will be tough since there aren't any.

33:52

I need an evangelist, a prophet, a pastor, and a teacher. Please, sir, give me some theological help, your little brother in Christ, Michael.

34:00

Well, I'm not gonna do the 1 Corinthians 14. That one's a little bit longer. That would take a little bit more time. But let's for sure go to Ephesians 4.

34:07

I know this passage well, since this is a verse that we have used as a statement of faith for our church.

34:15

So in Ephesians 4, beginning in verse 11, and he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds, and teachers to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the

34:36

Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

34:51

Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

35:11

That's Ephesians 4, verses 11 through 16. And that is our second statement of faith as a church right after Matthew chapter 28, verses 18 through 20.

35:21

Yeah. How do we understand this first part? Verse 11, he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds, and the teachers.

35:28

Well, you have to have an understanding of who the apostles and who the prophets are. Joel Beakey, I think, has shed the best light on this that I have read of anybody.

35:37

Unfortunately, to read what it is that he has to say regarding this, you would have to purchase the book, A Reformed Systematic Theology.

35:45

Which is huge. It's a big, big book. And I can't even remember right off the top of my head which chapter it is where he mentions this.

35:53

Okay. But I will tell you that he gave the best explanation that I've read on this. So when we're reading about apostles and prophets, we are talking about New Testament ministers.

36:03

The prophets in this case, at least in this context, are not talking about Old Testament prophets. It is talking about those prophets that were around at the time of the apostolic ministry.

36:13

The last of the office of prophets was John the Baptist. So when you're talking about a prophet as an office, and it's not really in the technical sense, but you had a prophet whom

36:26

God chose to speak to his people through. Like in the time of Saul and David, it was

36:33

Samuel. In the time of leading the Israelites out of Egypt, it was Moses. That's what

36:38

I was gonna say. In the time of Ahab and Jezebel, it was Elijah. And then

36:44

Elijah was succeeded by Elisha. Then you had other prophets like Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, so on and so forth.

36:53

Right. So there was always someone that God was speaking to his people through. That's the

36:58

Old Testament office of the prophet. The last one of them was John the Baptist. So these are all the forerunners to Christ.

37:05

All those who came before Christ in that office of prophet. Now that Christ has come, we don't need that office because everything has been spoken through Christ.

37:15

He has fulfilled all the apostles and the prophets. Christ is the one who's fulfilled all these things.

37:21

And so therefore, everything that we have needed to know from the mouth of God, we know through our

37:26

Lord Jesus Christ. And so in Hebrews 1, beginning in verse one, we have, long ago, at many times, and in many ways,

37:34

God spoke to our fathers by the prophets. But in these last days, he has spoken to us by his son, whom he has appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

37:46

So the point being made here is, we don't have the office of prophet anymore. Right. God is not speaking through prophets.

37:52

He has spoken through his son. But what about the apostles and the prophets during the time of apostolic ministry that Jesus had appointed to go out and share the gospel?

38:03

Well, the office of apostle very clearly has three qualifications. Number one, they had to have seen the risen

38:10

Christ. Right. Number two, they had to have been personally appointed by Christ to this work of ministry.

38:18

Number three, they affirmed their apostleship by performing miracles. Right. If these apostles cannot perform miracles, they are not apostles.

38:29

So if you have a modern day person saying, I am an apostle of Jesus Christ, you have any and all biblical right to say, okay, raise the dead and prove it.

38:39

Show me some kind of sign or miracle that you are an apostle who has been appointed by Jesus Christ, because they performed those miracles to verify that the word that they spoke was not from themselves.

38:52

It was the gospel of Jesus Christ that was given to them. Right. What about the prophets? Well, you had prophets in the time of apostolic ministry that did the same, but they were not an office.

39:04

It was not the office of prophet. So you had a guy like Agabus, whom the Lord gave a vision of a famine that was going to happen.

39:13

But Agabus was not a prophet in the sense that someone appointed him to a position of a prophet.

39:20

He was a prophet only in the sense that God gave him a vision. He spoke that vision and it came true. You also had the daughters of Philip who were prophesying.

39:29

We don't know what they prophesied. It's just one verse that tells us the daughters of Philip were prophesying, but they were still saying things that then came to pass.

39:38

If a person speaks a word from the Lord, but it doesn't happen, what that person said was not from God.

39:46

Right. And they are a false prophet. Right. There's no if, ands, or buts about it.

39:51

There will be no error in the prophet. Right. You cannot find one single example in the

39:58

Bible, Old Testament or New Testament, of a prophet erring in his prophecy.

40:04

Right. Ever. If it came from God, it came true. And the Lord was very clear on this in Deuteronomy 18.

40:12

If someone says a word from me that doesn't come to pass, it wasn't from me.

40:18

And what's supposed to happen to that prophet? Aren't they supposed to get stoned? He's supposed to be put to death. Yeah. That's how serious this is.

40:25

It's blasphemy. It's vanity for anyone to declare a word from God that did not come from God.

40:32

They've spoken presumptuously. They've spoken haughtily, arrogantly.

40:39

Right. Claiming that their words are on par with God's when they are not. And so the Lord was very, very serious about this.

40:45

I don't think that the understanding or the testimony of this was any more lax in the New Testament as it was in the

40:51

Old. Even though the office of prophet wasn't really an office anymore, since the apostle was given that position, the prophets that we see in the

40:59

New Testament who were therefore doing ministry under the umbrella of apostolic ministry, their ministry as prophets was still being affirmed in the sense that what they said actually came to pass.

41:12

Right. So these were those who were kind of the foundation of the building of the church in the very beginning.

41:17

We have this talked about in 1 Peter 2. The apostle Paul talks about it with the Ephesians in chapter two, that the apostles are the foundation of the church.

41:27

Christ Jesus is the cornerstone. The foundation is the apostles. Everything else is built up on top of that.

41:33

And we are like living stones as Peter puts it in 1 Peter 2. So the bedrock, the foundation of the church is

41:41

Jesus Christ, the cornerstone, the apostles whom Jesus laid as the foundation, that they would be the first to give the testimony of the gospel.

41:51

Right. And then believers are added. The building is built up. We're sharing the gospel. More bricks are piled on top and we're being built as a spiritual house unto the

41:59

Lord. This is the illustration that Peter gives. So now when you come back to this in Ephesians chapter four, verse 11, and you read, he gave the apostles and the prophets.

42:08

We are still under the authority of the apostles, the New Testament apostles.

42:13

Every time we open the Bible and read it, we are reading the testimony of the apostles verified by the prophets.

42:23

That's those names, those mentions there, done. So you already have it in your church.

42:29

You already have it. If you have a Bible sitting on your pulpit, you have apostles and prophets.

42:34

There you go. There they are, they're in the Bible. The apostles and prophets who gave us the scriptures are the apostles and prophets that we submit to now whenever the word of God is proclaimed in our church.

42:45

Right. But then the others are active offices that would be in your church. That is the evangelists, the shepherds, and the teachers.

42:54

So you have those that go out with the gospel, lead people to Christ, bring them into the church. And then in the church, you've got the shepherds.

43:01

You've got the elders and the pastor. And aren't those the teachers? Well, teachers would then be under the elders.

43:08

Oh, okay. So then you've got others that maybe teach in some way and they're even under the office of eldership.

43:14

Okay. So there's those who sit as a pastor or an elder, and then the teachers under them would be, yeah.

43:21

You could also understand that as shepherd is pastor, teacher is elder. Is that kind of what you were? Yeah. Yeah. Could be understood that way as well.

43:29

But I mean, we do have teachers that are under the elders. Yeah, right. You also have other teachers in the church that are under the elders.

43:35

Right. That's how you understand those offices. Anybody who is trying to translate that any other way is simply lying.

43:42

If they say that - It's a misunderstanding completely. Well, I would say in the sense of the charismatics in the

43:48

Pentecostals who are claiming that you have modern day apostles, that's a lie. And I have straight up said to anybody in my congregation, because we have such transiency in our church, the military is gonna move them to another location in not too long.

44:01

Right. When you go from here to another church - Yeah. Eventually when the pandemic's over and everything, yeah.

44:08

They were supposed to. If you go into a church and you have somebody stand up and declare themselves an apostle or a prophet, get out.

44:15

Yes. Don't stay, don't try to change what's going on there. They are already messed up.

44:21

And they believe in things that are contrary or in addition to the scriptures.

44:26

So like God's word says this - Whatever they think that God told them is -

44:33

Always has the authority. Yep. Always. Yeah, and that doesn't always go in your favor whenever you're questioning them.

44:39

Right. It's never a matter of, well, let me test your words with the Bible. No. No.

44:46

It came from God. Right. You don't test what it is that I say. Right. Do not touch mine anointed. You know, they might throw that at you or something like that.

44:53

I hate that phrase. Yeah. I hate that. I hate the misuse of that phrase. Well, any more, that's all that it's used for.

45:01

Right. But if we love the Bible and we preach it rightly, as the apostle

45:08

Paul told Timothy, be ready in season and out of season, which is another way of saying, it's always in season.

45:15

Right. Preach the word. Right. If we love the Bible that much and we are holding fast to the true word and scriptures of God and we are teaching it rightly, then we are not disavowing the prophets to whom

45:30

God gave his word. We are revering and upholding that position as God chose them to take the word of God and deliver it to the people.

45:38

Yeah. So we're not, you know, a blaspheming God or disregarding his anointed.

45:43

Right, definitely. That's how you uphold that. That's how that's fulfilled. Not in Benny Hinn saying, you've got to follow what it is that I say.

45:51

And if you don't, then well, touch not mine anointed. That's not how that passage is supposed to be understood. Anyway, I hope that's helpful for you,

45:59

Michael. Let's see if I got enough time for this question, which kind of goes right along with that.

46:04

This person's asked to remain anonymous. Dear Pastor Gabe and Becky, first of all, greetings from Poland.

46:12

Oh, fun, hello. And thank you for your ministry as it has been a tremendous blessing to me.

46:18

I recommend it whenever I get the chance to do so. My question is with regards to discernment.

46:23

Is a lack of discernment a symptom or possibly a lack of salvation slash regeneration or is it simply a lack of maturity in the

46:31

Lord? Having come out of the Pentecostal movement myself, I am often intrigued by the sometimes heinous lack of discernment displayed by those

46:39

I left behind there. Believers who have been attending churches for much longer than I have. God used the doctrines of grace and ministries like yours, wretched and grace to you, just to name a few, to open my eyes.

46:51

However, I cannot for the life of me fathom how these people could, on the one hand, listen to a

46:57

John MacArthur sermon and think it was all right and then listen to one by Joyce Meyer and think it was just as good or even better.

47:04

How can we know whether or not a Pentecostal believer is truly saved? So many of them seem to be truly godly individuals, but can a person who is constantly seduced by all of the lunacy and sometimes flat out heresy coming out of these charismatic churches truly be in the

47:22

Lord? Also, what is your opinion of the Illuminati? As we go through this pandemic, I keep hearing all these different conspiracy theories, lots of them coming from fellow

47:31

Christians about how the Illuminati is behind all of this and that we will soon see the rise of the

47:37

Antichrist. Your thoughts of the matter would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much once again for your videos and podcasts.

47:43

I don't miss a single one. May God continue to bless you and greatly use you for his ultimate glory.

47:49

Happy Easter to you and yours. So I got that email right before Easter. That's awesome.

47:55

As you might be able to tell. Well, the Antichrist is already here. 1 John 2, 18, children, it is the last hour.

48:02

And as you have heard that Antichrist is coming, so now many Antichrists have come. Therefore we know it is the last hour.

48:10

Going on to verse 19. They went out from us, but they were not of us.

48:16

For if they had been of us, they would have continued with us, but they went out that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

48:23

So one of the things that you are going to see is that those who are walking away from the faith or walking away from sound doctrine and wandering into heresy, never really were in the body of Christ to begin with.

48:35

They were always there because there was a false teacher who was scratching their itching ears and saying to them exactly what it was they wanted to hear.

48:43

So if they're listening to both, what do you suggest? I would suggest sharing the gospel with them.

48:49

I would try to point out to them the contradictions. How can you believe what this person says and then come over here to this person and believe that they're saying the same thing that the previous person said?

48:59

At what point do you come into a contradiction where you're no longer believing the truth, you're believing a lie?

49:06

Asking those kinds of questions, but using specifically examples of the things that those people believe.

49:13

Yeah. If they're following a Joyce Meyer. Post something. Yeah. Sometimes on social media, they'll post something that is like Joyce Meyer quote or something like that.

49:26

No, more of a video or an audio. Well, that's even better because she said something really wonky in there somewhere.

49:33

Yeah. So then you can take that and compare it to the John MacArthur one that they had listened to and you can say, okay, no, these two things are, they don't mesh.

49:46

One of these things just doesn't belong here. No, stop. That is not what you do at all.

49:53

Don't approach it like that. No. In fact, it would even be better if you don't do this on social media.

50:00

Correct, I agree. But maybe even calling them. Yeah. At this point, because yeah, by the time,

50:06

I mean, at this point, when we're recording this, we are not allowed to go over. Can't go have a chat, maybe not.

50:13

You probably could. It's frowned upon, anyway. Just doesn't go over well with some people.

50:19

Through a closed window, you know. The screen. Yes. I'll stand on this side of the screen door, you stand on that side.

50:25

Yes. We'll have a conversation. We'll put together a little makeshift like visitor booth when you go to jail and you're visiting somebody in jail.

50:33

We'll do something like that. Terrible. Terrible. Okay, so anyway, but do point out those, the contrasting.

50:44

Contradictions. Contradictions. I was gonna say contrasting points, but sure. Yeah. Contradictions works.

50:51

It's a little shorter. And doing so patiently. Yeah. I mean, we need to do this with each other anyway.

50:57

So as you talked about, how is it that they lack such discernment? Well, not everyone has a gift of discernment.

51:03

Correct. We're all supposed to be discerning to a certain degree, but then you also have those, according to 1

51:09

Corinthians 12, who've been given the ability to distinguish between spirits and they are a gift to the church.

51:15

So those who have that gift or ability of discernment, maybe more wisely than most have it, they serve the church by warning them of, this teaching's bad.

51:26

Over here, what we're looking at is solid in the gospel, but this person is not. Not talking to the anonymous person that wrote in, but everybody in general.

51:34

Don't shun those people. Don't ignore those people. Yeah, who have that gift of discernment. Yes, if it has been proven over and over again, trust them.

51:43

Yes. And if you can't do anything at that moment, take that into consideration and keep your eye out.

51:50

Right. If you've got one of those discerners in your church who is just really not loving with the way that they approach these things.

51:57

They do have to be tactful, yes. Yes, you're helping that person. And if you are that person, work on your tact.

52:04

Yes. Your quote, unquote, bedside manner, whatever they call that. You know what

52:09

I mean? Bedside manner, okay. Yeah, we're all slowly dying, I guess. We are. We are.

52:16

So, you know, don't just like kick the bucket or whatever towards them. These are colorful word pictures here.

52:25

Hold their hand, walk them through it. You know, don't just be rude and get fed up with them if they're not listening.

52:33

Yeah, but back on the person who maybe has the gift of discernment, but is rude. Yes. You may need to help.

52:40

That's who I was talking to. No, you were right. You're talking to the person who is rude. I'm talking about you're not the rude person, but you've got a discerner in your church who is rude.

52:48

Oh, check, okay, got it. Okay. Okay, I'm with you. Don't blow them off either, because they need help in sanctification and understanding love and charity.

52:57

These are ways that we help one another. Exactly. That gift of discernment is still valuable, but maybe they need to be tempered in it a little bit.

53:04

There are ways that, I wish I could have done this better in the past when I had people that came into the church clearly have that gift of discernment.

53:12

But man, it almost seems like that gift is the one that's most likely to become that cage stage person.

53:17

It's so frustrating. You need to lock in a cage. It is so frustrating to have that knowledge of, okay, you know something's off and nobody else sees it.

53:28

Yeah, right. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like the, yeah, anyway, it's fine. I understand.

53:34

Yeah. But being careful with one another, loving toward each other, no matter what the spiritual gift is, because that's the point of what -

53:40

Oh yeah, definitely. That's the point of what Paul is writing in 1 Corinthians 12 and 13. The greatest way here is love.

53:47

Right. So we are one body with many parts, but we exercise the spiritual gifts that we have been given for the benefit of the body, for the building it up.

53:57

Right, building it up. Keywords. Yes. Building up the body of Christ. Not tearing it down.

54:03

Not beating someone over the head with your spiritual gift. Not climbing over people and clamoring them and stepping on them on the way to get to that one person.

54:11

That's right. So just be gentle. Now, as for the

54:17

Illuminati. Okay, yeah. No such thing. The Illuminati is the word that everybody uses when there's some sort of conspiracy coming on.

54:26

I don't know what it is, so it's the Illuminati. Like they just have -

54:31

It's the answer for everything. Right, exactly. Okay. They just have their hands over absolutely everything. We are told in Isaiah chapter eight,

54:38

I think it's verses 12 and 13, do not call conspiracy all that this people calls conspiracy and do not fear what they fear, nor be in dread.

54:48

But the Lord of hosts, him you shall honor as holy. Let him be your fear and your dread.

54:54

So you got some friends that are getting into a little bit of that Illuminati conspiracy theory type stuff.

55:00

Again, grab their hand, figuratively, and bring them back into this is what the

55:08

Bible says. Don't worry about that. Yes, a focus of mind that is upon the Lord. Because even when maybe you're not afraid of those things, but you're letting your mind wander off into all of these myths and speculations.

55:22

What ifs, yeah. What does Paul say about that in first Timothy chapter one? Don't wander off into myths and endless speculations, which lead to vain discussion.

55:34

We need to be focused on Christ and his gospel and this ministry that is first and foremost, our responsibility in this world.

55:42

Yes, it is. A pillar and a buttress of the truth. That's the church. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you guys for attending this edition of our podcast, episode 1190.

55:54

Wow. Is what this was. Pretty awesome. Thank you so much. God bless you. We will talk to you next week.

56:01

Send your emails to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com. Quick prayer. Yes, let's.

56:06

Heavenly father, we thank you for this great day. And I pray that we would be thankful for our current circumstances.

56:13

For you are working something great in the midst of this and that we would keep our eyes focused on Jesus, the author and the perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross, despising the shame and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

56:30

Let our eyes be fixed upon him and on your eternal kingdom. In Jesus name we pray.

56:36

Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen.

56:58

Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. So do

57:44

I still have time? To do what? To go goof off? No. You're ready now?

57:49

No. You're ready. Are you finally ready? I'm ready. Awesome. I'm already ready already. You're already ready already.

57:57

Yes. Awesome. Okay, are the kids all potted?

58:05

I have no idea. Are we gonna get an interruption here? Sure. Whenever you're ready.

58:14

I can't really see it. Your mic's too low. Oh. Thanks, dude. Is that better?

58:20

A little bit. I don't feel like I moved it much. Where's my Bible? Oh yeah, I had it upstairs for Bible study.

58:28

Would you go get me my Bible? I gotta get my steps in anyway. See, I'm just looking after you.

58:36

You gotta do your exercises. You're just like, phew, thankfully I got an excuse.