April 23, 2018 Show with Thomas Garrett Isham on “Rock of Ages: Augustus Toplady, The Little-Known Man Behind the Well-Known Hymn”
April 23, 2018:
THOMAS GARRETT ISHAM, published author, former newspaper editor, career journalist & licensed lay preacher in the Episcopal Church (Diocese of Western Michigan), who will address:
“ROCK of AGES: AUGUSTUS TOPLADY: The Little-Known Man Behind the Well-Known Hymn”
Transcript
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This is Chris Arntz and your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy What is today?
Today is Wednesday.
No, what's today?
Today is Monday.
Today is Monday.
I Frozen my tracks there because I completely forgot what day of the week it is.
Monday April 23rd 2018.
I think that's the first time I ever blanked out on the day of the week that long.
But I am delighted to have for the very first time at the urging
actually not only of One of my key sponsors here on iron sharpens iron
radio Mike Gadosz the founder of solid ground Christian books.
But also I got an email from my guest himself Thomas Garrett isham
when he heard that I had had an interview on one of his heroes of the
faith that he actually wrote a biography for and that was
Bishop McElvain, I believe A born -again Episcopalian is the name of that book
and I was interviewing my friend a pastor Jacob Smith of the parish
of Calvary st. George's in New York City, which is still a Biblically faithful
Episcopalian Church.
It is a low church in regard to worship and They adhere to
the 39 articles of religion and we had a wonderful conversation on my guest book.
But today we have the man himself Thomas Garrett isham who is a published author former
newspaper editor career journalist and licensed lay preacher in the Episcopal Church in the
Diocese of Western Michigan and we're gonna be addressing one of his other books today Rock of
Ages Augustus top lady the little known man behind the well -known him and it's my honor and privilege to
welcome you for the very first time to iron sharpens iron radio Thomas Garrett isham.
Thank you.
And if you could typically when I have first time guests on the
program we Ask those guests to give a little bit about their background what was the
religion of your youth how you were raised if if there was any religion involved at all and
how our Sovereign Lord Providentially got a hold of you and drew you to himself.
I know that just because we are all saved by the same Christ to the same cross in the same
gospel does not mean that we all have identical Testimonies and stories.
I know that some folks can never recall a day when they didn't believe in Christ because they were raised in a Biblically
faithful home others have a more stark contrast in their stories on How
they came from darkness to light but tell us something about yourself.
Thomas.
Yeah, well, I'm one of the
insurer
after
high
school
while
I
went
to
college
and
I
did
the
typical drift that many people raised.
Nurtured in a church go through.
I was an
Anglican
layman.
Really I always thought that CS Lewis would have fallen under the category of evangelical Anglican, but I guess I'm wrong.
Surprising to think that because evangelicals in the u .s Read to
him.
They're probably
as big
as 50
and
in fact
he had a
grandfather who was a low church priest.
So certainly there was some family influence there that
Reverberated
in his
mind, but
anyway, he he reformed definitely reformed
and then from him.
Who's now been
a Canadian citizen for
quite a few years?
Yes, so he's the one who really I don't think
that's
right.
The 39 articles of religion are clearly reformed.
Right.
Well, how are you finding a Spiritual home in the
diocese of Western, Michigan.
What is that diocese like as far as the Episcopal Church is concerned?
Yeah, it's
actually
well the
Midwest in the
high church or in
domestic.
We're on
that
did not
benefit
in diocese.
I.
Don't know if you're familiar with my friend.
Dr. Ashley know who is now in Germany and has been for quite a number of years but
he is Canon theologian for the diocese of Western, Kansas.
Okay, I do know the name.
Yeah, I've read any of his stuff.
Oh, you've got to get his book on.
Thomas Cramner's doctrine of repentance.
You just have to get a hold of that.
Oh, I Make a note of that.
Yeah, and if I happen to find an extra copy, I will mail it to you.
But I'm gonna give our email address out right now for any of our listeners who would like to join us on the air.
It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com ch ri s a r n z
en a gmail .com.
Our topic of the day is Augustus top lady the little -known man behind the
well -known him, which is Also the title of or the subtitle of
the biography that our guest has written about Augustus top lady for the title being rock of ages and
Once again, if you'd like to join us, it's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com, please Give us at
least your first name your city and state in your country of residence.
If you live outside the USA please only remain anonymous if your question involves a Personal
and private matter.
Suppose you have a question about Episcopalian ism that you'd like to ask and you don't want to draw attention
to yourself because you are Episcopalian or something of that nature, but other than
a personal and private matter, please give us your first name city and state and country of residence.
If you live outside the USA before we even go in to the discussion of Augustus top
lady, I am going to play a version of his most beloved hymn
rock of ages and This is a version by Keith Lancaster
of the a cappella company That's from his reigning God CD praise and harmony
a cappella worship.
And I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.
This is my favorite rendition and After we play this we'll be Continuing our discussion with
Thomas Garrett Isham, so don't go away.
Here is rock of ages by Keith Lancaster and the a cappella company
Praise God.
Hope you enjoyed that as much as I did and Now let us come to a point in your
life Thomas Garrett Isham where you discovered and fell in love with Augustus top lady
and felt compelled to write a biography about him.
Whatever written materials I could about him and including the 900 plus
page.
Copy of the complete
works.
Oh,
definitely.
Definitely.
Okay, that's
a
evangelical
theology, but He being a scholarly type himself.
Respected admired and just loved Augustus top lady.
Is it
Augustus
top lay
an
original
his imagery?
That even is most if here and there
were data and
galleries of little old chapels of the independent and strict
Baptism.
Wow, so that
no
just in a
curiosity.
I.
Will go back to The same question I asked you about your own personal testimony in regard to
top lady.
But before I do that since you mentioned the strict Baptists.
They have a reputation and I don't want to broad brush all of the strict Baptist.
But they do have a reputation for hyper Calvinism as opposed to traditional five
-point Calvinism.
And I was just wondering has Augustus top lady to your knowledge ever been charged with that whether
rightly or wrongly.
Well, I shouldn't all right,
you know, of course.
Most Arminians will call anybody who is a genuine Calvinist.
I for Calvinist.
Well, that's that's what I was saying.
You bet.
Yeah, he's specific.
Well, what can you tell us about?
Augustus top ladies a Religion of his youth how he was raised
and so on and and the different significant landmarks in his life in regard to the
Sovereign Lord drawing him to himself and.
He.
He
would
be dead.
His mother had
several
Anglican clergymen on her side of the family.
And so there
was
that
that
influence
on the father's
side for
that.
Something's never changed.
That's I guess a centuries -old practice.
He made sure he was paid for it and they.
They forked
off his mother's family
the clergy which was too
bad.
Not all of them, but some.
But there
were some good
15 years old that year.
He entered Trinity and he entered with the
idea of preparing for Holy Orders.
He was very sick
1759.
He would have been 19 His first.
He was first published anonymously inferred
Preachers and
later on that it's funny at the hands of Wesley and he was.
Underwent this conversion.
In fact, let me read a question from a listener.
So we don't steal too much of her thunder that is related to that.
This is Jennifer in Gardnerville, Nevada.
She said I read an article some time ago about Augustus Toplady.
It touched briefly on the subject of John Wesley's persecution of Toplady.
Could you expound upon those particular events in Toplady's life?
Toplady
was
not.
Bring it
out get
it.
Toplady
dead.
And then he
signed
with him who
did a
lot
of them.
The dirty
work
so to
speak.
Wow.
Yeah, it's hard to believe if you look at.
I've got the book right by me here that collected works I mentioned over 900 pages of I think eight
-point type Pastor to the
churches
that
rector
of but yeah that
that was quite
a clay
brought
out some
Wonderful writing by Toplady that he might not have not have
done.
There goes Romans 828 again for you.
We have to go to our first break right now and I've actually sent you an email to call in to our different
Studio number because the buzzing that I mentioned before we went on the air is persisting.
Oh, so I did email you the other phone number and if you could please call that when we come back.
Hopefully we will have a better connection.
If anybody would like to join us on the air, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
Please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence.
If you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter don't go away.
We'll be right back with our guest Thomas Garrett Isham and more of our discussion on Augustus
Toplady.
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They are the publishers of the book.
We are addressing today by our guest Thomas Garrett Isham Rock of Ages Augustus top
lady the little -known man behind the well -known him.
So go to solid ground books .com solid ground books .com To find out more information
about this book by our guest and I assume that our guest Thomas Garrett Isham is back online with us.
I'm sorry.
I had you on mute accidentally.
Oh.
Yeah, I'm here and I was correct.
This line is much better.
The buzzing is gone.
Oh Thank you.
Thank goodness.
I apologize for the inconvenience.
We have some listener questions for you.
Some more listener questions.
I should say sterling in Greensboro, North Carolina says good show
today brother.
I Top lady that are available.
I guess he must have had John
Owen as a as a hero.
Well, thank you sterling and keep spreading the word about iron sharpens iron radio in Greensboro, North
Carolina and beyond.
We have Gordy in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania who asks What have been your findings if
any as to the origin of Rock of Ages?
While you're looking I'm going to give our email address for more listeners.
It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris ar n z n gmail .com.
Please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence.
If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
Have you found what you're looking
for brother?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Legend.
During is
no
for that
really
happening.
It is
something
that came up some years after top lady's
death.
Now he did burn before he died, which is a he
did it.
Well, thank you Gordy.
There is a legend.
Well, it's interesting.
Something that you just said is a question of another listener.
RJ in White Plains, New York Said I have heard that top lady
burned some of the written versions of his sermons.
Which is why they there are so few available today.
Is that true?
And do you
have any idea
why he
would
burn
them?
You like
sermons?
Was he in his.
Was he in his right frame of mind when he was near that the point of death?
Yes, I would say he was.
We
have
a
listener
from
Lyndon Hearst
Long
Island.
CJ who says I know that in regard to pastors and other well
-known people who are greatly beloved today There are those that were not beloved in
their own era.
I was wondering if this was true with top lady and was his hymn Rock of Ages as
Popular when he was alive as it is today.
Okay, here we go.
A not untrue.
Well,
please tell me
please
tell
me he
was
a bachelor
when he had
this infatuation.
Yeah, he was he was but he'd written I am.
He went he went to.
Did you know if he attempted to write her a love song since he was a hymn writer.
Well, he did write her letter and then not a love song as far as I know.
But he did write letters that suggest even kind of a roundabout way of how
how much I real.
We have a main thing.
We have BB in Cumberland County who wants to know can you recommend any?
Documentary or movie about the life of top
lady?
Well, it's about time.
That's you get involved in one.
No, I'm making one.
Well, we have to go to our midway break right now.
This is a longer than normal break.
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Thomas Garrett isham.
And I'm assuming I'm pronouncing your name brother correctly.
I never asked you up until now.
Well, I.
Actually, it is I show.
Okay.
I apologize for that.
That's all right.
It's an old English name and there are people with that last name who use the
long eye.
Okay.
But our email address again is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
Chris a r n z e n at gmail .com.
And as always, please give us at least your first name your city and state in your country of residence.
If you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter,
don't go away.
God willing we will be right back after these messages with more of our guest Thomas Garrett Isham
and our discussion on Augustus top lady.
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Augustus top lady the World -renowned hymn writer of Rock of Ages.
We have some other important announcements to make.
First of all we have Coming up right around the corner.
In fact next weekend we have the
The Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology.
Where I will be God willing April 27th through the 29th held at the Proclamation
Presbyterian Church in Bryn Mawr Pennsylvania.
The theme of the conference is the spirit of the age in the age of the spirit and the speakers.
Include my dear friend. Dr. Conrad and Bayway of Kibwata Baptist Church in Lusaka Zambia
Africa a person who I believe is the most powerful preacher alive on the planet Earth today.
Richard Phillips from The Second Presbyterian Church of Greenville, South
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Jonathan master who's been our guest here.
David Murray who's been our guest here and Scott Oliphant of Westminster Theological Seminary who I'm
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This is the most difficult portion of the show my least favorite portion of the show, but it is something that has to be
done.
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Such as a law firm a medical firm a chiropractic firm a dental firm, whether it's just a special event you're having.
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If you live outside the USA, that's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest Thomas
Garrett Isham on.
The subject we are discussing today Augusta's top lady and We
would love to take your questions at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris ar
nze and a gmail .com.
Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence.
If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal private
matter.
We have let's see.
We have a Question from
Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania who wants to know in Top ladies own time.
Was he more well known as a preacher and teacher or as a hymn writer?
Yes, I've heard of her lady hunting Huntington.
And I what is the other very famous figure from history that was connected to her.
Oh.
No, I'm thinking of a preacher, but that's okay.
I know that my in fact of Mike Gadosh the founder of solid ground Christian books
I can recall in a couple of sermons him bringing up lady Huntington and I don't think it had to do with Augusta's top lady.
I had I think it had to do with another famous figure, but that's okay.
You can you can yes.
Yeah, no, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah.
By the way, I just wanted to let I wanted I wanted to quickly let you know.
That.
John and Bangor Maine has let us know that George Whitfield was her personal
chaplain.
The
Moravians
did
that's
interesting.
I didn't
think
the Moravians.
Yeah.
Apparently there were some.
Well, yeah, you don't think of them.
They also led.
Their
prayers
led Wesley to
Christ when
he was on
the ship,
right
formed writers
and pretty
sure she did remain a
staunch Anglican.
He was fully committed to and convinced by the click and articles of
religion which we've mentioned the 39 articles also the prayer book and the homilies.
We Calvinist Monarch and after him, of course comes Charles the first but you
side and all of that business.
Anyway, I'm rambling on here.
No, this is a fascinating information.
We have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York who says I apologize if I missed
this earlier.
I am aware of what you have said about Augustus top lady being a Calvinist, but was he a
high churchman or low churchman?
Well in
right,
well
some of them have
the
high
element
with
a big C.
Well, yeah.
Yeah, there are in fact the high church some of that more.
Right,
right.
Yes, and he actually converted to Rome.
And Yeah, and he has one of the most repugnant.
Statements that annoys me to no end every time I hear it, which I think is a lie.
I'm not saying that he was consciously lying.
But his statement or his saying to be steeped in history is to cease to be
Protestant.
That just annoys me because I know the exact opposite is true in my life.
The more I learn of history the more I realize that I had made by God's mercy
and grace.
The right decision to leave Roman Catholicism after having been raised in it.
Yeah, I think.
That's a real stretch.
Yeah, yeah that he even tried to do that.
Yeah, the 39 articles actually openly.
Repudiate the Romish masses as idolatry.
Oh, yes.
Oh, definitely.
Yeah, and especially since back then the the mass was in Latin the 39 articles condemn.
Leading a worship service in another language
in another
tongue.
That's
right.
We are different.
Yeah, there's no question.
We have a question from Susan Margaret and Dauphin County, Pennsylvania who asks.
I completely understand that obviously and logically the extreme
left wing of Episcopalianism did not exist in top ladies day, but was there any
open hostility and tension and Debate between those from not only the
low church more Calvinistic wing of Anglicanism, but also the high church more
Oxford movement Romish side.
There
must have been different
different wings of.
Leanings.
Especially after Queen Elizabeth tried to in some way I think didn't she try to harmonize both the the Romish and the
Protestant wings.
Oh.
The Elizabethan copy.
We're gonna go to our final.
Yeah, we're gonna go to our final break right now.
And when we come back, I'd like you to give us the three at least most
significant things about top lady that our listeners should be aware of and If anybody else would like
to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com
Ch or is a RN z en at gmail .com.
Please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence.
If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous If your question involves a
personal and private matter and don't go away.
God willing. We'll be right back with more of our guests Thomas Garrett Isham and Our topic of the
day Augustus top lady right after these messages from our sponsors.
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Hi, I'm pastor bill shish go inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday
from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on wlie radio
www .wlie 540 a .m.
Dot -com.
We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in
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Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs
a pastor.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said give yourself unto reading.
The man who never reads will never be read.
He who never quotes will never be quoted.
He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.
You need to read.
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Solid ground Christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio.
And as I said earlier, they are the publishers of the book We are discussing today rock of ages Augustus top lady
the little -known man behind the well -known hymn by Thomas Garrett Isham who
until recently I was mispronouncing as isham and Thank you
very much and They are also solid ground Christian books is also the publishers for
another book by Thomas Garrett Isham a born -again Episcopalian the evangelical witness
of Charles Pettit McIlvaine and did I pronounce Bishop McIlvaine's last name correctly?
We already did a program on the subject of Bishop McIlvaine with my friend Who is
the rector of the parish of Calvary st? George's in New York City the Reverend Jacob Smith but if you could for our listeners
who missed that program give us in a summary of What that book a born -again
Episcopalian?
Is about and of course.
Who.
Bishop Charles Pettit McIlvaine was.
Yet Charles Mac
with his
brother.
I
wonder
how
often
that happens
today.
Yeah,
yeah,
right.
All right.
Yeah.
No
he
there was
a revival
because
they
thought
that Christianity
would make men
soft.
Because of a slanderous caricature that they had.
Yes,
but
it
did
causal
and he
just
yes.
I was just gonna say that we will have to have you back on the program.
Perhaps I could even have Reverend Jacob Smith co -host with me since he loved your book so much to re
-address Bishop Charles Pettit McIlvaine.
And once again, you can get the book from solid ground Christian books titled a born -again Episcopalian.
At solid -ground books .com solid -ground books .com if you have a
final word about him.
So we can move on to top lady again.
Oh.
Yeah,
well,
well,
you
can't do
it with him.
Unless we have a seance.
So we will make plans to do that when we go off the air.
I'll schedule you for another interview and we could revisit the life of Bishop Charles Pettit McIlvaine.
As far as our Topic Augustus top lady.
We have a listener in Kinross Scotland.
Murray Who says is it your understanding that top lady's death was hastened
by excessive study?
Did you say he was 26?
37 when he died.
Oh 37.
I don't know where I got 26 from.
Yeah 37.
Well, it's still very young obviously.
Yes, thank you Murray and Kinross Scotland.
Please keep listening to iron sharpens iron radio and spreading the word in Kinross Scotland and the United
Kingdom and beyond.
Now I'd like you to give those aforementioned requested.
Three
major things
about
Augustus top lady
that we
should
remember.
And he was
always
on
good
term
him
writer.
Of his other hymns in addition to Rock of Ages in the book and His
other
hymns are
worth.
Wow.
Is that
available
in
today?
It's a secret.
Well, you think it's time for you to give our friend Mike a doctor
call.
Yeah,
I don't know
if it's in his death it
just.
Praise God.
Yeah.
That is view.
He assured
them that
his views had not
changed and
he advised his
listeners
did not long
after.
Mm -hmm.
Top
lady
remains.
Yeah,
that's.
I don't know if
that's where my.
Dear friend who's now in eternity with Christ Al Stein had a photograph of himself taken behind a
Pulpit that was either Wesley's pulpit or in Wesley's Chapel
one of the other.
So obviously if it was in Wesley's Chapel, it may not have been original but My friend Al's this was
with Whitfield's here.
That's what I did.
I say, who did I say?
I meant with it Wesley.
Oh, I meant I actually meant George Whitfield is what I meant.
Yeah, because my friend Al Stein was one of these very rare Individuals who was
in assemblies of God pastor and bishop and yet he had become a five -point Calvinist.
Yes, they're very Arminian aren't they.
Yeah, and he had as his greatest Hero
that that was not Preaching or writing the God -breathed words
of our Savior you know as far as an uninspired for lack of a better term that his
greatest hero of of an uninspired human was
George Whitfield and he tragically was killed in a car accident
and Called home to be with the Lord, but he was truly a unique brother in Christ.
And I always enjoyed interviewing him on the old iron sharpens iron radio program.
But.
Truly amazing.
And You also Earlier on mentioned
something that I think bears repeating especially since solid ground Christian books
is in the process of trying to get enough people to pre -order
in a pre -publication Offer that they have the complete works of Thomas Manthan the 22
volume hardback set on Smythe's own on acid
-free paper.
They're trying to get this 22 volume set back into print in hardback.
The the 22 volume set that Charles Haddon Spurgeon called a mountain of sound theology
By the 17th century giant of theology Thomas Manthan.
Can you tell us again what the connection was as far as an inspiration to top lady?
Yes.
Well,
yeah
top lady
great.
Well once
again, if you
want to
find out more about
this.
Pre -publication order will you get a 22 volume set? of the
complete works of Thomas Manthan 17th century giant of theology.
Go to solid solid dash ground dash books calm solid dash ground dash books calm and put in your pre -publication
order and.
Your debit or credit card will not be charged until the books go into print.
So you don't have to worry about that.
The caveat is they need enough people.
To.
Pre -order it in order to go forward with this project because as I said, these are
hardback volumes Smythe's own on acid -free paper.
They don't want to do anything less quality in regard to this.
This.
Treasure trove of wisdom.
So go to solid -ground -books .com and find out more about that.
Let's see, we have an anonymous listener Who says I have loved ones
in the Western, Michigan area.
Can you recommend a thoroughly Calvinistic low church Anglican or Episcopalian?
Congregation.
Hmm.
And There is a PS.
I'm also looking for one in Maryland is a PS.
Yeah, well, I
well looks like you have to start one.
Yeah, yeah.
We.
Well, I'd like you before we run out of time.
Let our listeners know also about your book contramundum.
Oh.
My.
But his.
But you
borrowed the
phrase from
Athanasius.
The phrase
that is
connected
with him
against
the
world.
Oh.
GK Chesterton who was a Roman Catholic, so
In regard to political things, I'm sure that some of our listeners
who are more actively involved in politics, especially may want to look that up and By the way,
you can order most books that are offered on iron trip and Zion radio through our sponsors Cumberland Valley Bible
Book Service CV BBS comm CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service
comm and Make sure that you mention Chris Arnzen of iron trip and Zion radio
if you order from them, and I'd like you now to have three minutes to Summarize what you most
want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners before we go off the air today.
See, I guess
I let me
write
his urge.
Yeah.
I was just gonna announce our email address one more time if anybody has time to squeeze in a question.
Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
We may have time for one more.
But anyway continue.
I'm sorry.
Yes, and I think that from what we have learned about Augustus Toplady and
Also Bishop McElveen and other great Anglicans of history that we have addressed on this program
Thomas Cranmer who we have addressed in previous programs with Dr. Ashley.
No.
We can use this information To I think bring biblical truth to our Episcopalian and
Anglican friends who are either lost or caught up in Roman
Catholic leanings or what -have -you.
We can steer them to the truth of the doctrines of grace by reminding us Writing them I should say of these
great men of faith who were thoroughly Anglican while being thoroughly reformed
and it well.
Once again, I want to make sure that our listeners have the website for solid ground Christian books is solid
ground books calm.
Solid ground books calm and You could look up our guests
books by just typing in Isham in the search engine for Isham.
Isham do you have any other contact information that you care to give?
Great that's solid -ground -books .com and I want you all to also mark your calendars for
tomorrow.
We have Jim Osmond returning to the program to discuss his book selling the stairway to heaven
critiquing the claims of heaven.
Tourists those who claim to have been to heaven after a a near death or
brief death experience.
Jim Osmond is going to clear up fact from fiction regarding to these reports.
So, please tune in tomorrow for that broadcast.
Also, don't forget that we have on this coming Thursday April 26th, we
have Marco Barone Who is the blogger at philosophy of the cross blog
spot comm.
He's going to be discussing his book Luther's.
Augustinian.
Theology of the cross that's this Thursday.
We're still working on finalizing this Wednesday's program, but I want to thank you so much Brother Isham
for being on the program today.
I want to thank everybody who listened especially those who took the time to write in questions.
I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far far
greater Savior than you are a sinner.