Yes It Matters! The Influence of the Doctrine of Election on Sanctification

Justin Peters

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:11

Hello, dear ones. My name is Justin Peters. I hope that this finds you and your family doing well today

00:16

I want to thank you so much for joining me for this podcast This is an interview that I'm going to bring to you that I did with Joshua Banks Joshua is the pastor of Shepherds Rock Bible Church in Kingsport, Tennessee And the link to his church is down there below in the description and he's written a book entitled

00:35

Yes, it matters the influence of the doctrine of election on sanctification and he reached out to me,

00:42

I don't know last year and Asked me if I would read his book and if I liked it endorse it and so I did

00:49

It's a very very good book and it's it deals with something that's kind of near and dear to my heart because as you'll hear in the interview one of the weaknesses in certain areas of our

01:03

Soteriologically reformed camp is a a lack of sanctification Quite honestly a lack of a desire of personal holiness.

01:11

And so I was very eager to read this book. It's excellent So without any further delay here, here is the interview with Joshua Please do watch it and I do commend this book to you.

01:23

I think it will be very helpful. But here is Joshua Josh brother.

01:28

Thank you so much for coming on the program and talking with us tonight about your book entitled.

01:34

Yes, it matters The influence of the doctrine of election on sanctification, how are you tonight?

01:42

Doing well, sir. I'm very excited to be here with you and thank you so much for having me. Yeah, my pleasure.

01:48

My pleasure I'm looking forward to this and Josh I guess start off by telling us a little bit about yourself

01:55

Who you are where you live what you do Yes, sir Well, I see

02:02

I live in Gate City, Virginia with them a life of 22 years her name's Amanda and we have five children and They range from from 23 down to 8 and so we have three boys two girls

02:17

You got to meet our oldest Haley in Arizona But yeah, very sweet young But I'm a vocational pastor

02:31

I've been a the pastor of our church going on 11 years in February we started our church in 2012 and and so I pastor

02:44

I work at a Roofing company in Kingsport, Tennessee and our church is in Kingsport as well

02:50

Okay, so that's that's what I do as far as you know You know by vocational to having a job anyway

02:59

Yeah, okay. So you work in Tennessee, but you live in Virginia. So you're right on the state line there,

03:05

I guess Yes, sir. Gate City is just you know Probably probably five ten minutes actually to get over the state line

03:14

Our church is maybe just a little bit a little bit further, but it's it's not very far from home

03:21

Where we work at is not far from home about 20 minutes So it's pretty convenient place to be at, you know, yeah, okay

03:29

And Josh, I always like to point people in the direction of good churches So if there's anyone watching and they're you're there in your general neck of the woods.

03:38

What is the name of your church? The name of our church is Shepherds Rock Bible Church and we're

03:46

Kingsport, Tennessee. Our address is 500 Gravely Road and We have service time 11 a .m.

03:53

On Sundays 630 on Wednesdays and Men's and women's

04:00

Sunday school adult Sunday school and kids Sunday school on Sunday mornings at 10 a .m

04:07

All right, good deal and I will put a link down in the description below for folks to find your church as well as Your book which is the subject matter at hand tonight

04:19

And that's why I wanted to do an interview with you your book entitled. Yes, it matters and I was very honored that you reached out to me and and you gave me an advanced copy of the book and And asked if I would read it and if after reading it

04:35

I liked it if I would give an endorsement Which I joyfully did because it was an excellent book so Josh tell us a little bit about this book.

04:45

It's it's dealing with the doctrine of election and our sanctification and the connection between those two things and that's something that unfortunately,

04:56

I think far too Christians far too few Christians actually make the connection that you did

05:02

But tell us a little bit about the book and how it was that you came to choose this subject

05:09

Well, it is actually my based on my doctoral dissertation from the Master's Seminary and it's a it's a subject that I guess

05:20

I've been very passionate about ever since I even even beforehand of entering into the

05:25

Master's Seminary You know where we live at, you know, you have a lot more reformed churches that are that are coming about But there's also a lot of churches that are very anti, you know reformed

05:40

And so some of the Christians that I would have conversations with You know,

05:46

I don't know how this works but inevitably, you know when you meet a new believer or Not really a new believer, but a new brother in Christ or sister in Christ There was there was a few times that some of the first conversations that would come up would be you know

06:01

So, what do you think about doctrine of election and automatically I'm going well

06:09

We'll see how this goes But usually with those conversations and some others it really came down to you

06:22

Know folks getting very upset, you know As you begin to expound, you know the biblical doctrine of election

06:29

But it would always end with something to the effect of well, what does it matter?

06:34

Anyway, it's it's not a salvation issue and and it seemed a lot of time that would just to kind of divert the conversation or just outright end it and and so that that really got me

06:47

I guess, you know thinking a lot of Well, no, it's not a salvation issue as far as what determining whether you're converted or not, but it has to be an issue

06:58

Otherwise that it wouldn't be within the scripture right, and so I Go back to you those main texts that we all you know

07:08

Go to when we're talking about the doctrine of election of Ephesians or Romans It seemed as if and I just I didn't notice it before I just overlooked it and Perhaps it was because a lot of the times that the doctrines coming up It's more of a debate kind of thing, but looking at those passages of scripture

07:31

You know it it was always connected to some aspect of of our you know, sanctification of our growth in Christ It was it was intended to produce something in us right within many of those passages.

07:46

And so that really just It really just caught me, you know and grabbed a hold of me to to help me

07:53

Personally to understand that this this doctrine is more than just something to debate with it

07:59

It's it's something for us to you'll be joyful about Right and and to understand that it's the ground of a number of different aspects of our sanctification

08:11

So that's really where it just kind of come from. And so when I had opportunity at the master seminary

08:17

You know to do a doctoral dissertation, that's that's exactly what what I wanted to do

08:23

Yeah, well, well good. Well, yeah, I know I mean you're in the

08:28

South and I grew up in Mississippi and Election was just never spoken of When I was growing up in the

08:38

Southern Baptist Church, or if it ever did come up It was always in a negative way. And when I went to seminary it was always negative

08:46

But it was never explained and I've I know you See this as well 99 times out of 100 when you're talking with someone about election or that dreaded term

08:57

Calvinism. They have a Caricatured understanding of it. They really don't they they they speak against it

09:05

They teach against it, but they really don't even understand what it is. So This is a much too broad of a question really probably to do it justice here

09:14

But give us a kind of a bird's -eye view of what do we mean by the doctrine of election or when you hear that term?

09:22

Calvinism, what are we talking about? Well, primarily when we're talking about election, we're talking about one of the one aspect of the overall

09:33

Doctrine I guess of predestination When we're talking about predestination We're talking about you know

09:39

God determining the the destiny of both the elect and the unelect an election is the positive side of Predestination whereas reprobation will be the negative and what we're talking about is, you know

09:52

As the scripture affirms to us that before the foundation of the world That in view of us being sinners and being fallen that God chose out of mankind

10:03

Out of his By all means according to his own purpose according to his own grace all of that.

10:11

He chose people To be saved and and these are the ones that Christ died for and these are the ones that the

10:19

Holy Spirit regenerates So we're talking about God choosing us in Christ before the foundation of the world when we're talking about election

10:28

All right, and Josh in chapter 4 the title of your The fourth chapter there is

10:35

I believe it's foreseen faith or for ordained Faith now those who would not share our convictions of on this issue they would say that They can't deny that election is in the

10:50

Bible. I mean they they see it. The Word is there Predestined is there but they would say that that is just God looking down through the corridors of time

11:00

To see who will or will not choose him and based upon God foreseeing that in the future then that determines whether or not we are elect and God elects us after we

11:15

Decide to follow Jesus. What what would be your response to that?

11:22

I would I would take the person back to Romans chapter 8 specifically and When the

11:30

Apostle Paul is talking about for the those whom he foreknew To explain to them that this is a meeting that to foreknow doesn't mean to to foresee

11:42

It's actually a compound word and as many theologians

11:49

Have had pointed out, you know that I quote in the book that he's referring to that that intimate knowledge of The person that he knows them with that kind of an intimacy which means that kind of love

12:03

So I would take them to that passage first to explain what exactly it means to foreknow that he's talking about those whom he loved intimately beforehand and Then to I would try to explain to them the implications of what they're saying when they're talking about that he foresaw

12:22

Because that implies one if he looks down the corridor of time to to see what we're going to do

12:29

That implies that he has to learn something And then the second thing is is that it places an ability upon man that the scripture

12:39

Tells us that man doesn't have which is Left to himself. He is an enemy of God.

12:45

He is he's not able to submit himself to the law of God He loves darkness rather than light and so it is putting on man an ability to choose

12:55

Christ and to come to Christ left to himself and The scriptures are very adamant that we're dead in our trespasses and sin.

13:03

We're by nature children of wrath and We we're not righteous We don't seek after God all of those things that Romans 3 tells us that Ephesians 2 tells us

13:15

So there's it's not possible for man left to himself to choose

13:21

God Mm -hmm. Yeah, that's right. Yeah Well, Josh, can

13:26

I ask you a few like what about questions that that we hear? Yes, sir. Can we do that?

13:32

So here the probably the most common what about what about John 3 16

13:39

How can you be a Calvinist and affirm John? Well, and as I also point out in the book that John 3 16 though it is

13:53

Absolutely expressing to us of the love of God and and that's very true. That's something really to Affirm with them in the sense that You know that God God does love and God has extended that love to all mankind

14:09

In the sense that he has as RC Sproul talked about, you know He has his benevolent love his love of beneficence that he has goodwill towards man

14:19

He he performs acts of kindness towards them and that in itself is what we refer to as common grace

14:24

And so we would affirm that and as far as you know an aspect of God's love but When you're looking at John 3 16, it doesn't it doesn't tell us the extent of the

14:38

Atonement It doesn't tell us whom Christ is dying for It doesn't tell us any of that The it's really statements of fact that are given there

14:47

That God so loved the world that he gives Christ and the believing ones will never perish and so really

14:55

John 3 16 doesn't is an approved text against the Reformed viewer the biblical view.

15:01

It's just making statements of fact and you know presenting them to us

15:06

Yeah, right, right well Another what about that?

15:12

I hear a lot is well, what about evangelism? I mean if you're if you're a Calvinist He believed that God has already chosen who will be saved and who will be you know passed over Why evangelize if it's already determined why evangelize why witness?

15:30

Well And and like like you I'm sure I've come into that question as well one of my go -to passages that That I you know just love to do or to love to reference is

15:44

I believe it's acts 18 when Paul is in Corinth and You know as soon as Paul goes to Corinth he goes immediately to the the synagogue

15:55

Only a few people have believed he preaches the gospel. They basically run him out and The Apostle Paul says, you know your blood be on your own heads.

16:03

I'm going to the Gentiles but then the Lord appears to him in a dream and The Lord says, you know, don't be afraid

16:11

Keep on preaching for I have many people in this city. Yeah, and you begin to kind of scratch your head going

16:18

What is what does that mean? There's only a few people I believe, you know, so how does he have this many people or whatever?

16:26

but when you when you take that scenario that we're finding in acts 18 and then you go to Romans 10 when he talks about that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the

16:37

Word of Christ and How can they hear unless unless you have the preacher and all of that sort of thing?

16:43

And so when you're putting all that together You're seeing that That the gospel is the instrument that God uses to bring his elect to faith and so it's it's it's very empowering then if we understand that God has his people

17:00

God has his elect and The means that God brings them to faith is through the gospel which were commanded all to preach anyway and so it really it

17:10

I guess in one sense to it, it's very comforting and encouraging that the responsibility of Converting a person is not on us

17:20

But it's in the power of the Lord to do that. Yes, and as John Piper said, you know

17:26

He said something to the effect of Missions in evangelism are not hindered by the doctrine of election.

17:33

They're empowered by it and their victory is security and so we're just Where the instruments in God's hands and it is

17:41

God the one who brings his elect to faith We don't know who they are. And so we We absolutely give the free offer of the gospel to everyone

17:50

And let the Lord, of course Bring the faith, you know, whomever he wills

17:56

Amen. Amen. Yeah, it's been my observation and I'm sure yours as well that the most evangelistic people

18:03

I know are Calvinists Most evangelistic people I know the guys who are out there passing out gospel tracts and open -air preaching on the street corners there there

18:16

Maybe not a hundred percent of them, but almost all of them hold to God's God's sovereignty and salvation.

18:23

Yeah. Yeah. Yes, sir. And one that comes to mind is of course, dr.

18:28

Lawson We were in class We were in class one day and I won't mention the other gentleman's name but uh, they were kind of having this little small question and answer for us in the class and Somebody had asked a question to that effect of you know

18:47

Believing the doctrine of election and all of that. How do we preach? You know the free offer of the gospel or whatever the other gentleman that was there had said something to the effect of You know you you preach as a

19:00

Calvinist and you evangelize as an Arminian basically is what he said, right?

19:06

And I remember dr. Lawson was sitting right next to him and he was just chomping at the bit to bring his microphone up And he said, you know,

19:14

I don't really agree with that Preaches a Calvinist and you evangelize and evangelize as a cow.

19:21

Yeah. Yeah Yeah, that's that's exactly right. I agree because it

19:26

It gives us It gives us confidence in our preaching not in and of ourselves in fact

19:35

Rightly understood it it strips everything away from us and and all of the confidence is placed in the power of the message not in the power of the one who is presenting the message, but the message itself and We know that God's Word will not return void and so it empowers our evangelism

19:56

I know it does mine it empowers our preaching trusting that God's Holy Spirit will do

20:02

What he is purposed for his word to do so Absolutely, sir.

20:08

Yeah. Yeah All right. Well, so now let's delve a little bit deeper into the connection between Election and sanctification and that I'm so grateful that you wrote this book

20:24

Josh because One of the things that has troubled me in some parts some wings of our soteriologically reformed camps

20:34

Camp is a is a real lack a dearth of sanctification there seems to be

20:42

You know whether you call it the young restless reformed group that really aren't so young anymore, but There seems to be a

20:54

Coziness with the world a coziness with sin and just you know a flaunting of at least what are perceived to be our

21:06

Christian liberties And it really comes at the expense of sanctification there seems to be little if any sanctification in some wings of our

21:18

Soteriologically reformed camp so talk to us a little bit Why does the doctrine of election have any effect on our sanctification?

21:27

What's the connection there? I Think That's a lot of those passages that we're looking at you know aside from passages like Ephesians 1

21:39

Because when we're looking at the doctrine in Ephesians 1 is to produce in us a praise to the

21:45

Lord it is to Move our affections to understand what grace has been extended to us and the fact of what he says there that we're chosen in him before the foundation of world to be holy and blameless and the implication is is that we were once not holy and Not blameless, but it's in him that he is graced us with that In the grounding of that is the doctrine of election that he chose us in Christ to be holy and blameless and that's to move our affections to to give him praise

22:22

And so it should affect us in that sense to give even greater. Thanks to the Lord But when you're looking at these other passages like Colossians chapter 3, for example

22:31

So is those chosen of God put on hearts of humility and compassion in all of that?

22:38

so when you're looking at like a passage like this or in Peter when he when he

22:45

Uses the doctrine of election as a ground for our obedience to the Lord in these passages you're seeing that the doctrine of election is

22:55

Is indeed a ground for our Christian character because it's presenting to us God's God's character towards us that he was compassionate.

23:04

He he was merciful and all of that And when you're seeing when you're reading these passages and you're seeing that that it's

23:14

God's character that Because of his gracious character rather that that I'm I'm in Christ And then that needs to be my character as I'm walking in this world

23:26

So it's not about You know like you're talking about it's not about trying to flaunt any

23:31

Christian liberties or whatever Our main concern should be the character of God that is presented to us as a result of the doctrine of election and seeking them to to emulate that to be imitators of God as beloved children and so it should move us in and change our affections and all of that to want to be more

23:52

Christlike want to be more like our Lord as Gracious as he was to show that mercy to us and that love to us that kindness to us

24:02

Then then our lives should be demonstrating that very thing to rather than just trying to like you're talking about it

24:09

You know with our Christian Liberty it's not about how far or how Close we can get to that that line that we shouldn't cross

24:17

It should be let's keep away from it and let's just want to be like Christ and let's want to be

24:23

Imitators of God and the doctrine of election presents the gracious character of God to us

24:29

Yes, yeah because election is I mean, it's it's first and foremost about our

24:37

Salvation our redemption but but encompassed with that is our growth in Christ is our sanctification growth and holiness growing in the grace and knowledge of our

24:48

Lord Jesus Christ and So it's all encompassing in it, isn't it? It's not just about not just about our eternal destiny, but it's about our

24:58

Conformity into the image of Christ here and now Yes, sir. And I mean when you're looking at I mean this whole the whole doctrine itself.

25:12

I Mean it is it's very humbling and that's one of the yes chapters in the book is yeah

25:18

This is this is a doctrine that humbles us as as we recognize

25:24

Okay, because the thing is I mean nobody knows us as good as we do you know, we know all the things that go through our minds and the things that we

25:32

We say when we shouldn't or whatever and yet in spite of ourselves

25:38

That God has graciously extended mercy and love to us in Christ and And that recognition is you know,

25:48

I had nothing to do with my salvation. I was not good enough to have earned it I'm not good enough to keep it and it's the gracious character of God that is just set before our eyes within this doctrine that is and so it's just it's so much more than just a means to to argue or to debate or you know to You know lord it over, you know people is you know

26:15

What I I did when I came into the Reformed faith, I guess they call that the cage stage, I guess but But it's just it's so much more

26:23

Than that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh it is it is and and and once you see

26:30

God's sovereignty and salvation once you see it in Scripture, then it's like You can't unsee it.

26:37

It's just everywhere you look and and I now marvel that I went so long in my life without Without seeing it.

26:47

I mean I would see the I would see the Words and the verses but it just never Clicked with me and I always fought against it

26:55

But then once you've been the need to and you see it and it's just like wow here it is

27:00

And yeah, it's here and and here it is here too. And it's I mean, it's almost on every page of the Bible and you just Marvel at it and yes, sir yeah, no you hit the nail on the head, but because that's that's how those very words are what

27:16

Some of the the ones that our church have shared with each other That when you when you've come in to the

27:22

Reformed Faith, you just you do you see it everywhere Yeah, you see and in the

27:27

Old Testament you see in the New Testament I mean, it's it's a consistency throughout the entirety of Scripture of God's sovereignty.

27:34

I've got sovereignly calling Sovereignly extending grace on and on and on you go

27:41

Yeah, I know You know read read John chapter 6

27:48

John chapter 10 John chapter 17 It's just all throughout, you know over and over all that the

27:54

Father gives me will come to me I mean Jesus speaks over and over and over about those that that he has been given by the

28:03

Father we are gifts given by the Father to the Son and In Jesus just a friend if the only thing in the

28:11

Bible if the only thing in the entire Bible about election was Was just found in John chapter 17 the high priestly prayer that would be enough

28:18

But I mean, it's just it's just every it's everywhere. You look it's everywhere you look well

28:24

Yeah, talk to us just a little bit more Josh about the and you touched on it

28:32

About how the doctrine of election should affect Our humility and I hear a lot one of the common objections to Calvinist is oh, you're arrogant

28:42

You know Calvinism is arrogant because they think they're the they're the few they're the chosen and you know

28:49

They're they have this elitist Attitude because they're one of the elect and you know others aren't and and that's one of the common objections.

28:57

I hear to Calvinism What are your thoughts on that? Well, I think it goes back to Something that you had said earlier is that if they really knew if they really knew what

29:13

Calvinism taught Then they wouldn't be saying that because I mean with with their particular view

29:23

You know their view really allows them to have some kind of an arrogance and some kind of a pride because if if you have that synergistic work of Salvation as what they adhere to then you can claim at least some of the credit that the gospel was presented to you and because You know that they wouldn't come out and say well

29:46

I accepted it and the other guy didn't because I was smarter than him or whatever but there has to be some kind of a cause that they would have to Acknowledge as to why they believed and why somebody else didn't right so For them, it's just mainly, you know,

30:03

Jesus has done 50 % of the work or let's say he did 99 % of the work and The rest is up to you

30:10

Then that's placing upon you a certain credit for your own salvation.

30:16

Well, I chose I Believed I accepted it made sense to me

30:23

And so I chose rightly But when you're looking at Reformed theology

30:29

You know, there's none of that within Reformed theology we're looking at the entirety of the work of God or the work of salvation being a work of God and there's no part of it that we can take credit because We're dead in our trespasses and sin by nature children of wrath

30:49

But Paul goes on in chapter 2 of Ephesians But God being rich in mercy because of his great love with which he loved us made us alive in Christ So we're looking at ourselves being spiritually dead unable to come to the

31:03

Lord left to ourselves Until the sovereign hand of God was extended to us in the

31:10

Holy Spirit to regenerate us to make us alive grant us faith to believe of which we never had left to ourselves and so we call upon him as a result of a sovereign work that was done in us and And when you're looking at that I mean, that's very humbling because it does it it comes back, you know for us to ask the question to ourselves

31:34

What did I have to do in any of that? You know, what role did I have and the answer is you didn't have any

31:42

He sovereignly chooses and and then the

31:47

Holy Spirit is the one who brings us alive and you know The Apostle Paul says again, and I think it's 1

31:54

Corinthians 1 By his doing you were in Christ Jesus And so yes, when when we really begin to look at the reformed view.

32:04

I mean There's there's no credit to be taken It's it's all looking at Christ and glorifying him for every aspect of our salvation

32:14

Whereas the other view you can take some credit. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

32:20

Absolutely absolutely Well, Josh another practical aspect of our sanctification that you deal with in your book is the impact of God's sovereignty doctrine of election on on our lives as Christians when we inevitably go through trials when we go through suffering and I appreciated that chapter as well, so What would you what does the what is the doctrine of election have to offer?

32:52

the Christian in times of suffering pain Trials talk to us a little bit about that.

33:00

But looking at that passage of Philippians 1, you know he he starts out and The Apostle Paul does in the earlier part of chapter 1, you know, he who began a good work

33:12

Will perfect it but then at the end of the that chapter, you know to you

33:18

It has been granted not only to believe in him, but to suffer for his name's sake So you're you're looking at a comparison there of how the

33:27

Lord has worked within us he began a good work and he will bring it to completion and the fact that the

33:32

Lord does that and and that's probably Of course the most important aspect of our life is receiving that grace of God in our salvation

33:41

Then when it comes to suffering You have that same comfort and encouragement

33:46

That is there that God is actively working in all of this because he's bringing our salvation to completion

33:53

So that it gives us encouragement to understand that whatever it is It's going on in our life is for the perfecting of our faith as scripture says elsewhere

34:03

But to perfect us in Christ when the Lord calls us home as an aspect of that and You're looking at a at Romans, you know chapter chapter 8 you know, we always jump to you know, verses 29 and 30 of Romans 8 and We we quote these and then when people are going through difficult times, then we'll quote verse 28

34:28

You know them that all things work together for good But what but these are a unit, you know

34:35

These aren't to be separated. Right? And so what Paul is saying in verses 29 and 30 of Of Those who meet predestined he calls he justifies all of that Is an extension of what he's saying in verse 28

34:51

All things work together for good to those who love God who are the called according to his purpose

34:57

For those whom he foreknew and that's extending from verse 28 for those who miss foreknew

35:03

He predestined to be conformed the image of his son He he calls and he justifies him.

35:09

He glorifies him and so in the midst of your trial and suffering That that that's once again comforting us and helping us to point our eyes back to the

35:18

Lord to understand He's doing something within us. He will bring it to completion and the end result is going to be our glorification

35:25

Christ Yes, and so there's there's a confidence then that we have in our times of suffering

35:32

We rely on him just as our confidence of the salvation that he's brought to us of him completing it

35:39

We know that his purpose and in our suffering we may never know what the

35:45

Reasoning is, but we know that as Job says he performs that which is appointed for me

35:51

For the testing of my faith for the growing of my faith to perfect me in the day that that he calls me home

35:58

Yeah Well, I think there's a lot of comfort to be had When we're talking about those two things there is there is and You know, the sovereignty of God is such a comforting thing for us such a comforting doctrine for us as believers when we go through times of trial when when we get the bad report from the doctor when when our kid is in a

36:26

Car accident, you know when we lose our job or whatever you know if I did not have a

36:32

And quite frankly quite quite frankly as we look at the state of the world today

36:38

If I didn't have a healthy theology of the sovereignty of God, you know I'd be pulling what's left of my hair out.

36:46

You know, I'd be I'd be I'd be worried

36:51

I'd be you know curl up into a fetal position because I would think you know I would have no confidence that that God's in control that he's sovereign that he's working out all of these things and And and even our suffering as you said our suffering is a privilege granted to us

37:10

Few people think of suffering in those terms and it's a privilege to suffer for the for the glory of Christ, but it is

37:19

Yes, sir. And It's not Suffering is is not, you know pleasant by all means, right?

37:27

But the outcome of it is what we can rejoice in where Paul talks about that in Romans 5

37:33

That you know, we exult in our tribulations knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance perseverance proven character and proven character hope

37:40

And hope does not disappoint. So and Then the midst of our suffering while it's not pleasant at all.

37:48

It's painful It can be very grievous depending on what's going on the end result of that is something that we can look back on and rejoice in the

37:55

Lord that You know, he is he has done a work within us to change us in some way

38:03

Whatever his intention was to make us even more more like Christ and So there's it's a weird kind of dichotomy in one sense

38:15

But it is it is a reality that the scriptures present to us Yeah, that's right.

38:21

And I tell people often, you know trials are not enjoyable That's why they're called trials.

38:28

If they were enjoyable, we wouldn't call them trials, you know So when James says count it all joy my brethren when you encounter various trials, he's not saying enjoy your trials

38:39

Because trials are not enjoyable, but but but we can have joy in the midst of those trials knowing that God is sovereign that he

38:50

Cannot act towards us in any way that's outside of his character in his nature and our and our suffering has a purpose well, yeah, and Looking back at the book of Philippians.

39:02

I mean when Paul's writing that I mean he's chained to a guard and Roman jail or Roman dungeon.

39:09

Yeah, and yet he's the one that encourages us to Rejoice in the Lord always and again,

39:15

I say rejoice. Yes. It's like well, how can he do that? Because he has confidence in the

39:21

Lord. That's right. That's right Well, Josh brother, thank you so much for this interview and thank you especially for writing the book

39:33

Yes, it matters the influence of the doctrine of election on sanctification It's again as a joy for me to read and I gave a hearty endorsement to it so, um,

39:44

I think I really hope that this will be a help to a lot a lot of people watching and I do encourage people to get the book.

39:53

So speaking of the book Josh, where can people find your book? They can get it off of the g3 website or they can get it from Reformation Heritage Books or Amazon so any one of the three

40:08

They're they're able to get it Okay. All right, and it's endorsed by Joel Beakey and Mike Abendroth and Yours truly, um, who else g3 endorses it obviously

40:25

I'm sorry. I said g3 Oh, yes, yes

40:32

Another gentleman that had written an endorsement before they didn't make it on the book, but it was

40:38

Nick Farr from the Reformed Sage he had also endorsed it and One of my preaching professors who was an advisor for my doctoral dissertation

40:51

Dr. Brad Clausen from the Master's Seminary. Yeah, he had written the forward to the book And so he had you know

40:59

Endorsed it in that way as well. Yeah. Yeah indeed Well, well,

41:05

I tell people when you're looking at a book considering the book the first thing that I do when

41:11

I'm Considering whether or not to read a book. I immediately go to the endorsements. I say, okay, who's who's endorsing this book?

41:18

you know if it's endorsed by Joel Osteen now probably take a pass, but Absolutely, but you've got some good men endorsing your book.

41:28

So I commend it to people No, thank you very much, sir.

41:33

Yeah. All right, Joshua. Well, thank you very much brother. Appreciate you Joining me and I appreciate the work and we're gonna put links down in the description

41:43

Down below where people can find your book as well as your church

41:50

Thank you very much, sir. And thank you for having me. My pleasure brother. All right What do your ones thank you very much for joining us and I do encourage you to pick up the book.

42:02

It's a good read and It's not a real big book so it's it's not something that's gonna take you months or anything like that to read but it's a very practical and will definitely definitely be a

42:12

Help to you in your growth in the Lord in a very practical way All right until our next time together