Canadian Pastor's Church Fenced & More

Opening Announcements and Ministry Updates

Non rockabodas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it.

Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?

Delusional. Yeah delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay.

It doesn't really hurt. Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage.

Going to all the world and make disciples not going to the world make buddies not to make brosives, right? Don't go in the world make homies right disciples. I got I got a bit of a jiggle Nick.

I.

Guess a joke pasta when we have the real message of truth.

We cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not for many deceivers.

Have gone out into the world. Those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the Antichrist. Watch yourselves so that you may not lose what we have worked for but may win a full reward.

Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the father and the son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting.

For whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works. What's up y 'all? Welcome back to another episode of apology a radio. You can get more at apology a studios .com. That's a p o l o g i a studios .com.

Apology a studios .com go over there partner with this ministry. Become a partner with us in all access when you do you make everything that you see at apology a studios platforms. Possible. It's only made possible through Brothers and sisters in Christ just like you have partnered with us over the years.

So whether it's a teaching ministry from apology or whether it's the on the street evangelism. Whether it's the public debates whether it is the cultural engagement stuff all that stuff. Everything happens because we have brothers and sisters looks like you who are part of this with us.

So, thank you. First of all to everybody who is a part of this ministry with us to bring the gospel around the world. We appreciate you so very much. There aren't words when I encourage you also when you go to apology a studios .com check out all the podcasts and Programs we have there is cultish.

There is Sheologians there is provoked. There's apology a radio when you start with apology all access. We want to bless you for being a part of this ministry with us. So you get apology Academy some great teachers there.

We have Andrew Sandlin. We've got James White John Samson Gary DeMar. Just so many great useful courses that hopefully be a blessing to you. We also have apology a TV apology a TV apology after show all that is there and big announcements.

Today first of all, that's Luke the bear. I'm Jeff. They call me a ninja and we have some really good news for everybody today. Everybody knows if you've been listening for some time that we were gifted and with the privilege of Basically holding all of dr. Greg Bonson's life work his sermons audio lectures his Literally seminary courses from Christ College and those sorts of things.

We have about 2 ,000 Lectures series Videos, they're all kind of together in that 2 ,000 number to put up at Bonson you we have Bonson you and we're gonna have it All there for you. So if you are an individual who just wants to grow in your faith and you want the most rigorous and amazing Christian education.

It's all for you and it's gonna be totally for free. Also, if you're doing Bible studies in your in your church, these are whole seminary courses and courses I mean even through the book of Luke you have courses through the Proverbs.

You have courses in Christian history courses in logic and courses in apologetics the law of God. All that stuff. I mean, it's really one of the best Christian educations you can get and it's gonna be absolutely for free so thank you to David Bonson and to the Bonson family for entrusting us with this and We have the announcement and that is that it is going to be available and launching now when I say available launching.

What I mean is it takes some time to Remaster 2 ,000 audio lectures and videos. We don't want to just put them up. We want to remaster them so we can magnify the audio clear things up a bit and also make the videos.

We're gonna put them on high definition and just some cool stuff with them. And so that's gonna take some time. So Everything we're gonna be putting up. It's gonna be put up sort of incrementally to piece by piece.

And it's gonna take a little bit of time. We're working on speeding that up, but we have everything built. The site is built and ready for launch. We're gonna have two major courses dropping the day of the launch.

So it'll be blessing to anybody who's just getting into this if you are just starting in the arena of defending the Christian faith. We're commanded to in 1st Peter chapter 3 verse 15 To always be ready with an apologia a reason defense of the faith for the hope that's within you.

We're supposed to do it with gentleness and reverence. And if you're just getting into this you're brand new. This is gonna bless your life. Not just in the area of apologetics I mean in everything the way that you see the world knowledge truth beauty goodness every corner of life.

It'll bless you. So not just in defending the faith. That is really something. I think that everyone should take as a Christian it's this course and a biblical introduction to Apologetics, that's the first course.

I think there's like 20 some odd lectures in there. And so it's a good start for those of you guys who have already done that before with Bonson and you want to get into some more advanced stuff. We got your back.

We have I believe it's the seminary level course in apologetics. I want to highly encourage everybody who's just getting into this. Do not start with the seminar seminary level course because it'll probably discourage you.

Bonson leaves No stone unturned and so it's some deep stuff. I would definitely start with that basic for those of you guys. Like I said, I've been doing this for a while. The seminary course will probably bless you but you know, you may even benefit when we get it up the mid-level course.

So it's coming it's coming and I wanted to read to you the press release we have that have been going out to all of our supporters and that is that Apology Studios is set to improve its online platform through an enhanced user experience and the addition of Bonson you.

So first of all your support made this possible we have wanted it from the very beginning to change the world one gospel conversation at a time and The all-access members you helped us to create a digital platform to bless the world and to reach out with the gospel to the cults to atheists all over the world.

Millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of people have been impacted through the content. Just an apology of studios YouTube platform. It is really incredible. It's reached globally and it has impacted so many people.

I'll give you an example. We had just a family at church to Three weeks ago the entire family come out of Mormonism six people one used to be a bishop bishop right now. He's Assistant to the bishop their son was brought back from Uruguay from his his mission there because the mom Essentially was impacted by our content and James White's content and came to Christ and then brought her son home.

And the whole family now has come out of Mormonism. There are stories like that just can be multiplied over and over and over. It's an ongoing thing. And so You made it all possible through all access.

You made it all possible but we realize as we started this from scratch that we've needed to optimize the experience for everybody who's Participating with us in the part of apology of studios and going to the website.

So we we basically revamped the entire thing. And so we're gonna be constantly looking forward and making it better making it more searchable making it More beautiful and coherent and we also have the addition of Bonson you which I just mentioned.

And because you guys have partnered with us and because we are able to do this in this way we're able to make all the content available to the church globally for free free 99 for free 99 for absolutely free and we are going to Make this content on the platform Conducive to searching and for learning and we are remastering a lot of the recordings because some of them are you know.

They're they're recorded like in the late 80s early 90s With like a handheld recorder. So some of them are just fine the way they are honestly and some of them like you're like you're like this. We want to remaster though so that they sound good.

And so you guys won't struggle through those. So we have a new new platform a new platform for everybody. It's gonna be Apologia Studios new platform and website. So it's it's just a lot better and we also have the addition of Bonson you so what we would say is Pray pray for the ministry here at Apologia Studios pray for Apologia Church and our witness to the world participate join the the the Conversation join and participate with us in ministry sign up for all access and do that as soon as you guys can.

When you sign for all access, you're also gonna have immediate access to Bonson you Bonson you is free. But it's gonna require an account to get in and to navigate and all those things and so yeah, so just get ready for that and the date is April the 14th.

April the 14th is a drop. So there it is guys April 14th, and please be patient with us as we get all the rest up there. We wanted to make it available Make it beautiful. We wanted to Make sure you guys had access to stuff as we're putting it out there so April 14th is the official release date for Bonson you and You know the great thing about Bonson you at Apologia Studios is you're also gonna have access to all the video content.

Which what I understand is not available anywhere else. So praise God. Did you mention the password reset? Sorry? I'm gonna make sure we. I don't believe I did. So if you're already an all-access member Be watching for an email should come the 14th of April for a password reset.

For security measures, we will need you to reset your password using the email address you received from the email. So just be watching for that. That'll just help us as we're revamping and re-releasing it.

Yeah, we've literally had a special team go in and just rebuild the website structure and code and things like that and To make it just better for everybody better for you better for us. And so all that's been working alongside Preparing Bonson you and so praise God.

I mean praise God is it I can't tell you how humbling it is. For both Luke and I we planted Apologia Church Elders laid hands on me sent me I laid hands on pastor Luke and we started this work at a drug rehab in in Phoenix 11 years ago, and that's how we began.

It was just a lot of broken people that had freshly come to Christ and we're and people who were coming to Christ continually through that that work at the hospital there and if you would have told Luke and I back in 2009 2009.

Yeah. That that this is worth what the Lord would do by his grace and through his power and his gospel. I think there are certain aspects of what's happening right now that we probably wouldn't have believed you like how's that?

How is that possibly gonna happen? Like even the benefit of having like dr. James way. Yeah, exactly. As one of our fellow pastors having a ministry that saved so many thousands of children through and abortion now and now we have four bills.

We've been working with in four different states to criminalize abortion in the month of April. That's where we're at right now. It's an incredible thing. It's humbling and we have Bonson you To be able to bless the world with here's a deal.

Look, I'll tell you the truth. I believe that if If believers will digest the Bonson His life work his teaching the world's gonna change in dramatic ways because of the gospel you will get the most elite Christian education possible and It's just a gift and I'm humbled by it and Luke and I are Grateful to God for it and grateful to all of you for being a part of this with us because this is not our thing.

We're a local church. Yes. This is Apologia Church. Yes, but we're part of the body of Christ. That's the kingdom of God and everything you see that's happened through Apologia Studios hasn't happened because we have a large church.

We've had like right I mean we Luke and I ran by the skin of our teeth I was saying this morning then we first planned to the church. I was borrowing people's vehicles including Luke's Luke. Luke and Cheryl went with a single vehicle.

Because they let me use their vehicle. Yellow convertible yellow convertible bug. For I think a year and a half. Maybe more like I mean we were you know. Looking for change behind the cushions kind of a thing to figure out where you're gonna the next meal for the day.

And so just so you know, like everything that's happened here. We recognize this is a gift from God. It's all to his glory and it's it's because the body of Christ has joined together to participate in this work with us.

So, thank you. Thank you. Now you have something you want to say? Yeah, so I think that's a good opportunity then to mention the Next rally we will be involved with in South Carolina. So that is Tuesday, May the 4th.

May the 4th be with you. That's right at 7 a .m. Mountain Standard Time. So have fun with that one. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

It's 10 o 'clock Eastern. Oh, okay. Okay 10 o 'clock Eastern. Yeah, I should be able to hang in there for you. Yeah.

Yeah, so 10 o 'clock Eastern again Tuesday, May the 4th and at the Capitol in South Carolina Representative Jonathan Hill we've been working with him. Columbia South Carolina, right. Columbia, South Carolina.

Yes. We've been helping him working with him that doing similar bills that we did here in Arizona and Texas and Oklahoma. So so please we want everyone to come out to that that possibly can same sort of thing We've been doing.

Pastor Jeff will be there speaking. I think Dennis is going coming. Yeah I don't know who else is I don't know if Bradley's speaking or not as well. But Anyways, you looking for that, please. We'll be sharing that please come out to that if you're on the East Coast if you can.

Yeah, so everyone just highlight this this is a an amazing time. We're living in right now where we actually have bills going in for equal protection for all humans. That means the criminalization of abortion not the regulation of it.

This is unprecedented in terms of the last Generation. We have some some amazing courageous men and heroes before us that have laid the foundations for this in Oklahoma it was first in Oklahoma with Russell Hunter and with Joseph silk and so praise God for those men and everything they did there.

And in this that this is all now snowballing. I need you to join us. So come out. We are flying out to Columbia, South Carolina. Dennis our fate is with us and red state reform and abortion now going there to to work towards Making this bill actually a thing making it actually justice in South Carolina a thing.

So that the thing you have to understand is that we have two enemies here. One is the pro-choice movement and the other is the pro-life industry. I said pro-life industry on purpose because the industry itself is not interested in equal protection bills.

They do not want to criminalize abortion. They are never going that direction with the methodology They've adopted nor with their worldview. And so this has to be a movement of the church. I'm I'm I'm suggesting a third movement here and that's the Church of Jesus Christ the Church of the Living God.

And so we need Christians from all over the East Coast all over the country to come join us in Columbia South Carolina on that date. Come put your hand in my hand shake my hands and let's do this together.

Okay, we need you there. So please participate with us. We need you at the rally. You need to let these legislators know that they have the support of the Christian Church to bring equal protection for image bearers of God.

In the womb. Amen. I just shared it. So Oh perfect on Sure on my page and I shared it on the in abortion now site page. Excellent.

The Canadian Church Fence and the Theology of Civil Resistance

All right, so let's get right into it guys. Lots of things been happening. Thank you. And for everyone who's joining us right now all over the world. Stay with us. We got some important to talk about.

Here's what we're gonna try to do today. We're gonna talk about the Polish pastor that just wrecked the Canadian officials who came into his church building. I don't know anything about this Polish pastor.

So I'm I don't know I can't I can't tell you like well. This is what the guy thinks and believes. I don't know. I all I know is these Polish pastor and he wrecked these Canadian officials who try to come into his church building.

We're gonna talk about James Coates Church him being released from jail and also, of course the fence going around his Church building by the Canadian government. Just for a moment, it was one thing that I meant to talk about last week on the Theonomy episode with dr. James White.

And it was related to the gospel coalition article that was to quote my friend pathetic. And it was just one aspect of it. That I think demonstrates just how sloppy it was in terms of trying to address this issue.

Not only does it contradict himself in the space of a few paragraphs. But he also demonstrates they didn't spend a lot of time actually reading right the resource that he actually quotes from it had he done.

So he wouldn't made the comment that he made so we're gonna deal with that then also and I just surprised Luke with this as Luke walked in he does he's never heard it. Yeah, I haven't seen he hasn't heard it and I'm doing that.

We thought they'd be best that he doesn't hear it. We did a recent episode on the non-christian cult leader Sean McCraney. When we call him a non-christian cult leader. What we mean is there's a classic definition a Christian definition of what a cult is.

It's any movement or group led by a person or you know, a group of people.

That.

Attempts to essentially borrow or co-opt Christian terminology. They say they're Christian. They're part of the Christian Church and Christian movement in history. And yet they deny the essentials of the Christian faith.

That is the Christian standard Christian definition of the cults. And you can you can even see that in Kingdom of the Cults the the premier work on the subject in the last generation by Dr. Walter Martin who's now with the Lord at any rate.

There is a we mentioned last week. I think was it last week episode or two weeks ago two weeks ago. We mentioned that we had wanted to do something on Sean McCraney yeah for a while and I was we were.

I was reminded of it because I was contacted by somebody who has a Website called check my church comm and as I mentioned when we first talked about this I thought oh, that's that's interesting. Check my church.

You can have like a solid resource of like one of these churches believe we actually have links. We send to people. Yeah when they say is there a church in my area? We say well, here's a solid approved churches that are we just for the record.

It's founders org and I will send them to see our EC because I get that email or our message all the time.

So yeah, and so so I'm like, okay check my church and then I as I'm reading it I realized that check my church is actually operated by I guess a couple Sarah and her husband. Sorry. I'm please forgive me.

I forget his name I think it's Joe and please forgive me but I recognized as I realized as I read it as they're telling their story that they're actually part of Sean McCraney's group his organization in In Utah, which is called campus church.

Yep, and I thought to myself. Well, this is this interesting. So this might that would be a good segue into a conversation about Sean McCraney with Jason Wallace. But also I you know, I brought up incidentally it's because of check my church.

So I we did bring up some points there. It is interesting somebody running an organization to check Christian churches out who is herself not part of the Christian Church. Yeah. So that was that was her main point there.

Yeah, we are gonna I'm gonna play through the discussion she had with Sean McCraney After our show so guys stay tuned for that because we're gonna engage a bit with the comments and I'm gonna demonstrate as we engage with these comments pastor Luke that Check my church comm is led by someone who doesn't have a lot of discernment or I think yeah ability to Assess information.

Yeah properly and I'll just leave it at that. Yeah, because you haven't seen it yet. No, I haven't I haven't I haven't told you what's in it. Okay, so you'll what you you're gonna get the same. You're gonna have the same.

Experience as pastor Luke. Listen, you know, it's funny. One of the questions she asked or she didn't ask I should say is do you? Believe in a trying God. That wasn't one of the questions. That wasn't in there.

It's interesting. Yeah, very interesting.

So yeah, so we're gonna talk about that. Let's get to it. Alright, so first things first, I'm gonna play for you guys. If you haven't seen yet the I'm surprised how many people hadn't seen it. This is the clip.

Polish pastor chases cops out of church on Easter weekend. Get out you Nazis. Here we go.

Get out of this property immediately. Out of this property.

I.

Don't care what you have to say. Immediately. Gestapo is not allowed. Out. Do you understand English. Get out of this property. Go.

You understand.

Nazis are not welcome here out. And don't come back without a warrant. Do not come back without a warrant. You understand that you're not welcome here. Nazis are not welcome here. Gestapo is not welcome here.

Do not come back you Nazi.

Psychopaths.

Unbelievable sick evil people. Intimidating people in a church during the Passover. You Gestapo Nazi communists fascists. Don't you dare coming back here. Can you imagine those psychopaths? Passover the holiest Christian Festival in a year and they're coming to intimidate Christians during the holiest festival.

Unbelievable. What is wrong with those sick?

Psychopaths, it's beyond me. So there you go. That's uh, yeah, that's interesting.

Yeah, and again in case you missed it earlier. We're not endorsing his theology. We don't know what his theology is. The point is he had courage and was brave and was awesome and we need more pastors to be like that.

Well, I was gonna ask for your assessment. Thank you. So, uh, it is interesting and it will cannot interesting it's it's a sad state of affairs because If you haven't read mission of God by dr. Joe boots, make sure you get a copy that for you and your family.

It'll bless your life. I know it blessed pastor James tremendously. He was in love with that book that book actually details a bit to even about Canada's own history and historical foundation of Christian foundation of society the law of God is supreme and Submission to Christ Lordship and authority first and foremost even for government even for government.

And now we have of course the erosion of all those things through a hostile worldview. We have of course neo-marxism. Hardcore Marxism we have all of this socialism that leads to Marxism. That's in so infected Canada and the United States of America and of course all over Europe.

And so we're in a place right now where you have this kind of thing taking place and you know when this whole thing Happened I won't say the word because then we'll get throttled by YouTube or we'll get you know Fact-checked or something like that, but when it came People were told, you know, we have the two weeks to you know, slow the spread and everything else now we're going into year two and we're into year two now and We're in a place now where we have Canadian government shutting down churches.

Canadian government Imprisoning faithful ministers of the gospel like James Coates who praise God has been released for opening the church for worship and so That's where we're at things have dramatically transformed.

Now over the last year and into the second year and it ought to be concerning for all of us and the good thing pastor Luke I think and I think you and I have talked about this the great thing about where we're at right now what this has Revealed is has revealed the theology of the churches.

Yes. It's revealed what people believe and what they don't understand historically. Christians understood the distinction between the roles of the church in the state. Christians understood the domain of the church in the domain of the state proper and They lived accordingly and we live in a time where there are many pastors who've been trained and in seminaries and they've never even studied this issue of the church in the state and the role of the church in the state and so They don't know how to respond and so they haven't been trained.

I was just thinking about the last night the problem in America today. And of course globally when you see a lot of these things happening and what were once Christian Societies or at least in the atmosphere.

The problem is the pulpit. Exactly, right. The problem is the pulpits you fix the pulpits put courageous men and men who act like men. You'll understand why I'm saying that later and Put men who know the Word of God and care about the Word of God and are willing to lay their lives down for Christ In his gospel you put them in those pulpits and society and culture transforms.

So like the the professing believers who are congregating are being led by people in pulpits. And if those pulpits aren't strong and those men don't know God and if they're not Courageous if they don't act like men then that trickles down into the congregation and you just have a culture full of Christian nincompoops.

You know people that are ultimately useless and you know, I think what we need to talk about is the pulpit. Yeah.

Sorry, they made me laugh still laughing, but it's my job. Yeah nincompoops. So I'm actually I'm actually getting ready to teach.

A.

Chapter 8 for mission of God called I think it's called sit at my right hand, but it's all about the you know spheres of government and in the state becoming The Messiah essentially the state becoming God and that's what you're starting to see in Canada.

They have supreme authority, right? You know, but and that's what we mean by separative separation of church and state is the Civil government has its own sphere of government. The church has its own sphere of government.

They're separate and unique and they didn't they shouldn't overlap on to one another and. But that's just exactly what's going on up there and this is I think we're gonna touch on it later. But this is exactly why that article we mentioned last week which we're gonna talk about again today is why?

Theonomy does matter because it addresses issues like this issues of justice and ethics and morality and spheres of government. And so yeah.

It becomes the it is but for the person the objective Standard right by which you measure the government's faithfulness or unfaithfulness. And of course the church's faithfulness or unfaithfulness and I think one of the great things for me that I'm excited about and I know we're both excited about this is that this Conversation with the gospel coalition and theonomy where they're trying to denigrate the law of God for modern society.

It's abiding validity today. They're they're trying to denigrate it and they need to go that direction because Christians many Christians are waking up to the fact that wait. A minute the Word of God talks about this.

We actually have answers. Yours are all subjective and they're just your personal opinion. You guys are just sort of creating this as you go. It's all totally arbitrary, but God's actually spoken to this now so Christians are waking up to the idea that Wow God spoken to this historically the church understood this in many many times and Places and so it's a good thing.

Yeah, I mean an article like this you you you almost approach it. Like I was really poorly done, but you're like this is exciting. It's good. This this was this was written because there are enough believers right now who are and to use a popular term woke.

Enough. They're awake. No longer sleeping on this issue and that'd be a good way to actually describe that these people are these these new theonomists are woke. They're awake. But in a good way not in the racist way.

Race woke woke ism today now from Marx. Marxist class conflict. Ideology is nothing more than racism dressed up in white robes.

And that's that's truly what it is. I was gonna say that I mean that article obviously we talked about last week, but that Makes an argument for natural law as opposed to God's law. My question for the author of the article is how would natural law?

Respond to this how a natural law don't deal with the government coming in and shutting down churches and arresting pastors. Mm-hmm.

Because natural law from a biblical perspective makes sense when you say natural law is embedded in man. Right, but how do you know they're operating on the basis of that God given natural law from the objective standard and revelation of God?

You can't you can't say well just natural law because there are tribes today who are formed organized who still eat one another. Yeah, there's natural law operating for you. Yeah, ready. Do I know that it's wrong to eat another human being?

Yes, why. Because I have the objective revelation of God in scripture that tells you no, that's not natural law operating in an appropriate fashion. Okay, so just quickly wanted to show you a quick News clip of what took place yesterday at Grace Life Church in Alberta after health officials Quote physically closed the facility.

So this of course is the church that's been in the news as of late led by one of the pastors James Coates Solid man of God and praise God for his faithfulness. So pastor James if you're watching this, we're we're grateful for you.

We've prayed for you and we praise God for you and your stand stay consistent, brother. You're doing exactly the right thing the Christ honoring and God glorifying thing. James Coates was arrested because he refused to stop opening and preaching and all the rest and he spent Think a little over a month in jail.

I think so. He was released and he was only recently released I guess about a week and a half ago if I'm remembering correctly. Yesterday the Canadian officials put a fence around the building to block off access and here is that report?

We are following some breaking news this morning just west of the city.

RCMP are on scene and crews are putting fences up around Grace Life Church. Our Kim Smith joins us live now with the latest. Yeah, hi Aaron and Vinesh. Yeah, I'm here outside Grace Life Church. AHS is confirming that it has blocked access to the church by putting fencing around.

RCMP are also on scene here providing support to AHS workers now that We know that there are supporters on scene here from Grace Life Church. More and more cars are showing up parking along the strip.

Grace Life Church and parishioners have defied Health orders for months now by not wearing masks not distancing. Our global news cameras have Seen people hugging outside of the church. We also know that Pastor James Coates of Grace Life Church has spent time behind bars as well Recently, so again, we'll be following this story throughout the day finding out.

We saw them hugging one another. I.

Just want to say if you're in can I say we have people that's here. They're saying they're from Alberta. If you're in Canada, please share this. It was interesting when a lot of this broke. I know here in the States a lot of people were sharing it and sharing it and then I'm talking to friends I have that live in Alberta and they're like I didn't even know about this.

Mm-hmm. And I think it's being suppressed like within Canada somehow. So like if you're in Canada, please share this with people in your nation know what's going on.

And just so you know to another this comes up at times like well You know, it's not following health orders. Well, the church has the right Under its jurisdiction is fear to assess whether the government is operating according to biblical wisdom and The biblical rules of liberty and order and so if the church says in a case like this You know, the data does not support what you're doing.

And if I submit to you on this I'm gonna have to submit to you two or three times a year with all the different Viruses we're gonna have to contend with you don't have control over the church in this way.