Open Air Theology -Church Planting and Evangelism

You can say what you want, but you won't around me.

Deep among misfits.

A misfit in the trailer park at night. A misprint with the sixth sense. Been sick ever since my brother died of an O .D. My two cents never made sense. Either to me or anyone else inside of the sheep fence.

My knife slipped on my right side. Tell me what's the bottom line? The bottom line is I'm not right. I'm not left, but this elephant won't fight.

There's nothing left but the sin to deep end.

And I can't find my assigned seat to sit in. My theology don't fit in. Black sheep of the Reformation sheep pen. Sheep are reformed, I'm just another Baptist. Baptized again, the bastard child of Anabaptist Hostage.

Child of Reformation society. Cigars, bourbons, and beer cans. Bow ties, tattoos, and bearded...

Show Opening and Technical Difficulties

My name is Tom Shepard. I'm with Open Air Theology. I'm a co-host. We want to welcome you live to the Open Air Theology show that we haven't been on for about three weeks because of technical difficulties and everything's getting ready.

But we're on. We're ready to go. We have a special guest with us today. But before we do the introductions and everything, I want to show you guys something that I have that everybody else doesn't have.

The Open Air Theology mug.

This guy was named... You could show us this before the show. That's messed up.

Yeah. Nobody's seen that. There we go. Open Air Theology. You can put your water in there. You can put your energy drink in there. You can put your clock in there. You can put your weed in there. You can't do that.

You can't do that. But you can have your own Open Air Theology. We're going to get the... What is that? A Halloween one? No, it's a Winnie the Pooh one.

It's a gay one. It's my wife's mug. I thought it was a Bigfoot one. You finally came around. You can put your whiskey in there.

That's right. That's right, Melissa. That's the kind of disc we all like right there. Hey, listen. My name is Tom Shepard, Open Air Theology co-host with Braden Patterson, Jeffrey Rice, and I'm a member of Grace Bible Church of Bernie.

I head up an evangelism team that goes out to Fredericksburg, Bernie, San Antonio, as far south as Corpus Christi. Thank you, Emily, for liking my mug. Anyway, I'd just like to say hi to everybody, and I'm going to pass it over to that one right there.

Wrong direction, but okay.

Introductions and Church Context

My name is Braden Patterson. There we go. My name is Braden Patterson. I'm the pastor of Grace Bible Church of Moorpark, California. If you live in the Ventura County area or you know anybody that lives in that area, I'd love to see you guys on the Lord's Day.

My wife and I are going to be moving there on December 6th and the 7th. We are ready to start worshipping with the people, the saints there in Moorpark, California. Bittersweet day today with it being my last message here at Valley Baptist Church in Hagerman.

A lot of tears shed this week during study. We'll get to that, though. Braden Patterson, I have a YouTube channel called Reformed Ex-Mormon. Again, if you know anybody in Moorpark or in Ventura County, tell them about Grace Bible Church.

Pass the mic down to the infamous, notorious J-E-F-F. I really don't like the new setup.

I can't see any comments. Hit comments. I don't have a comment button to hit. Anyways, my name is Jeff. I'm one of the pastors of Covenant Reformed Baptist Church in Tallahoma, Tennessee. I'm actually this guy over here's pastor.

Yeah, he's smoking on that two-day cigar. But if you're ever in Tallahoma and you want to come hang out with a couple of jack legs, we'd love to have you. Now I'll pass it over to Big Red. I'm Red.

I'm an evangelist, Covenant Reformed Baptist Church, and I just want to see people come to Christ.

Amen. That sounds good. You know, I can't see the comments on Facebook, but I can on YouTube, Braden. Is there comments on Facebook?

Good question. I don't know. It should pick up. Whenever I was a moderator, it picked up both of them on the site. Oh, okay. Wait a minute. Okay, so I see.

You got some things to work through on it. I don't know why you can't see the comments, Jeff. I can't see anything. Can you see the comments, Red?

Can you give us a picture of the screen?

Technical Problems and Show Setup

We've had some technical difficulties recently. Tom set up a live thing yesterday. I don't know why he did that.

I did not do that. You did.

Sorry about that, guys. I definitely hit schedule for later. I thought I'd click for today, but nope, it was yesterday.

That was Braden. As a matter of fact, we actually had a couple people waiting to listen. I feel bad. He texted me. He said, hey, are you guys going on? What's this going on right here?

I was like, Braden. What you guys need to do is please subscribe to the YouTube channel. Get word out about it. Share it on your different social media platforms. Yeah, that's weird. Yeah, that is weird.

I can't do anything about it. I can just see you guys. I think me and Jeff probably have the same thing going on. Yeah, we do.

Because in the settings, it says guests see viewer comments and posts. It says that.

I don't know. As always, everybody, we are not professionals here. It is completely obvious that we are not professionals. We lost Jeff. We lost Jeff. Okay. We'll get it figured out here. We'll figure it out.

Anyway, what's the topic today? We were talking about evangelism, right? We are. Evangelism and church planting.

Evangelism and church planting. Well, I think what we should do is we should talk about evangelism first. I think that they go hand in hand. I know Jeff is very passionate about both of these topics. Hopefully Jeff can get back in here because I know he's very passionate about this as he is a church plant who has seen his church grow through evangelism and different ministry outlooks.

I know Red can speak directly to that. I think that the conversation is going to go hand in hand with each other. There we go.

Still not showing anything. Hey, Jeff, if you click on your icon to the right, it will pull up.

If I pull up the comments, it takes me completely away from y 'all. I can see the comments, but I cannot see anything else. Really? I'm either seeing the comments or I'm seeing y 'all. Okay. You have it on full screen then.

For sure.

Try and take it out. That's the same for me, Jeff. When I have mine on full screen, I can't see the comments at all.

When I exit full screen, I can then see the comments. I don't see how you exit full screen. It should be right. Right-hand corner is on mine. Right lower hand corner? Don't have it.

Let me take a picture. I'll show you. Okay. Move your little dealy. Your mouse. I don't have a mouse. I got a finger. Move your mouse pad. I don't have one. What is that?

Now we lost red. There's red back again. Let's see here. You know what we can do? Hold on. Can you see this, Jeff? Yeah, I can see whenever it's posted like that. You can't post them all. Until we figure it out.

We'll post them all. Hey, Brady. Brady, can you see that?

Debbie's very kind. Debbie said you look gay. No, you look sharp, buddy. You look sharp, buddy. I see that beard coming in, too. Thank you. I appreciate you. I started growing mine last week.

I started mine like 28 years ago. It's starting to be seen. I shaved yesterday.

Shut up. Shut up. Jeff's got some testosterone going. Shut up. That's from cigars, I believe.

My beard a little cigar smoke. That's right.

Love it. Hey, so when Jeff was just raptured just there for a minute, we were going to start the show. We're going to talk about evangelism and church planning.

But we have to talk about our Lord's Days first. Yes, we do. I say we let the guest, Red, go first, knowing that his pastor is sitting in spirit, all millennial hug from above next to him right now. I'm looking at you, boy.

How was church today, Red?

Worship, Preaching, and Church Life

We had a wonderful day. I can't find my sermon notes, but I had the bulletin that we have was filled up to the brim. It was the second message, the second part to John chapter 14 verses 25 through 31.

And it was amazing, man. He's highlighting and exalting the work and the ministry of the Holy Spirit. And he actually hit on church planning today and evangelism and just how the spirit works in us. And through the scriptures to teach us indirectly.

It's just a wonderful message, wonderful fellowship meal and wonderful time of getting to know one another and just hanging out. And I cut about three heads after we got through eating.

Tell everybody what you mean by. You cut everybody's head. I cut.

So there's a few men that I cut their hair in a congregation. Right. Anthony. And so every other Lord's there. So I'll give I'll give the guys a haircut.

And that way they look sharp and almost a foot washing ministry, but except with the head. That way they don't look like Jeff. That's awesome. That's awesome. You know, you know, they, I've heard that the best way you could tell if your congregation is taking or if they're good note takers is if you give your notes to your pastor afterwards.

And if he could preach from him, you did. You took good notes.

If he could, if he could. I was all over the place on mine, man.

I had to read his prayer request. Fill out one day. I was like, what'd you put?

Red's got the gift of writing in tongues.

I appreciate that Jay, but the, the haircuts that I do, they're free of charge, you know? So it was an idol that I held up for a long time, but I've been cutting hair for 20 plus years. And so I just, I give that gift freely as God has given it to me.

And it's also been an amazing evangelism tool, the tool on the, on the tool belt type of thing. So I'm just thankful that God has given me that gift and that I can share it. Yeah.

What about you, Jeff? What do you say? How was your Lord being in church? It was good.

I mean, it's just, you know, it's just something about how everything goes. You know what I'm saying? Like it's, I feel like we got something special. I do feel like, like I was off the beat today. I just, I have a whole lot on my plate, man.

Just trying to, I feel like I'm juggling a thousand balls and another ball got thrown at me today. And so trying to, trying to maintain and manage everything that I got going on right now. It's been, it's been pretty rough and I've really felt it today in the pulpit.

But, you know, I do feel like the message was clear, even though I probably wasn't feeling it or, or I probably wasn't as powerful and given the message as I normally am. I think I was all over the place.

I looked down a couple of times and I don't know. Sometimes I just, I see, I don't see anything in my notes. I just have to freestyle. Like my eyes kind of went in and out. I think it was just the stress that I'm under right now.

So be praying for me. But I do feel like the, for the most part what I wanted to articulate was articulated, whether the delivery was as well as it should have been. But the fellowship, the second to none.

Yeah. I mean, I just like, I would put our fellowship at CRBC up to get up against anybody. That's awesome. Yeah.

If you go and listen to the message, you would never know if that he was going through something. Well, you know,.

It's I'm sure it is. And even when, when I go out on the streets and stuff like that, and I don't think that I do well. And then the next thing, you know, somebody comes to church that heard you preaching from evangelism.

So God definitely works on our weakness. You know, when we think we are doing something, right, the power is in God's word. So we know that that's what we're going to trust him.

Before you and I give it, let's hear where you had on the church building. Real fast, Jeff and red, where are you guys at. On, on walking into the new building of covenant reform Baptist church. So this,.

This coming Saturday, we'll be able to put the pews back into the sanctuary. It takes four to five days for the floor to dry. They just got done putting a polyurethane on the floor Saturday. So we'll, we'll get the pews back, but also we have to line up things with accounting because the county has to come in there and kind of obsess everything that's going on.

And give us a, a, a, a, well, I can't think of what it's called, but tell us how, no, not an appraisal, but they have to tell us capacity. And so we have to get our capacity. So we're waiting on the fire chief to get there, to check everything out.

So we were hoping to have our first Lord's day service, the 1st of December. It's looking more like maybe mid December at latest, the very beginning of the 1st of January, the 1st Lord's day in January at, at the very latest we have a month, but we could be in it in another two or three weeks.

Well, that's good because you can actually get some stuff done that you need to any loose ends or whatever.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. There's just a lot of little things. Like we got to put a lot of trim going around. Well, I don't know if you would call it trim shoe motor, shoe mode, whatever you call the thing that's go around the base.

Yeah. A lot of that up and yeah, but we're hoping to have enough money left over after everything to where we can hire a professional photographer and videographer to kind of go through there and take some videos of the sanctuary and just kind of like 30 second clip of, of everything that's been done.

And then some pictures too, because we're revamping our website as well. So good deal.

Yeah. We're excited. I mean, praise God. I mean, just think of it. Look how God has worked and y 'all,.

I mean, we're still going to have a church infancy, right? So we planted it.

So we plan it. It was May 30th, Pentecostal Sunday of 2020. That was our 1st Lord's day service. We were actually sent out by crisis King Baptist church in Syracuse, New York. And, and their pastor at the time came down June 20th, July 5th and laid hands on us and sent us out.

Wow. So we're a little over four years old. We're still in our infancy and we have this amazing church building given to us by God. Like it's, it's pretty remarkable and unheard of.

No, I know they're going to determine as far as code goes and everything, but how many can you actually fit in the sanctuary?

If you are not a hundred percent sure, anywhere from one 90 to two 20, something like that. Wow. That's incredible.

Yeah. Praise the Lord, dude. That's so cool. How full was your church service today? I don't know, man. I don't ever count. I mean, it was pretty full. Yeah.

I mean, I sit up front. I don't ever really. And plus, like when I first get up there to make the announcements, like it won't be that many people. And I'll turn around to read the creed and turn back around and got more people.

And then by the time I get up there to preach, there's more people.

We probably had about 30, 40, 30, 35 to 40 people or so. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to hear,.

You know, when we start talking about evangelism, how that's going to fill up too. Um, yeah, Julie said about 45 people today. Awesome. That's awesome. With a couple of families out. That's pretty cool to hear.

That is.

And then I'll let you go, Brayden. Okay. Welcome. We welcomed a new family in today. Yeah. Membership. Doug and Angie. Yeah. Yeah. Doug and Angie. Praise the Lord. That's awesome. Sweet, sweet couple.

That is cool. So we got Doug, we met doing evangelism. Yeah, that's amazing. It's evangelism is pointless. I don't know why we're talking about it. I mean, we're Calvinist.

Do we really need to? Yeah. I mean, God's going to choose and save who he's going to save. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Don't leave the stream yet. We're being sarcastic. If you aren't used to it.

Go ahead, Tom. Yeah. So we, we had two services this morning or this, this afternoon. Well, actually today, I should say one in the morning. And then we just left one this evening. Talking about the regulative principle of worship, which is really good.

It actually kind of uncommon for a dispute to do. So, but so I'm, I'm really glad to hear that because, you know, as you guys all know, I'm a 1689 black. And just, you know, how has God commanded us to worship?

And Michael Beck, my pastor, he really nailed it today. And then really, he got on talking about, you know, how we worship in our singing in a congregation, how we worship in a way that's presumed to God.

And that was really exciting. And then there's this kid that came this morning and this afternoon, and he's, he's, he's actually a product of evangelism as well from the pearl. And we, we went out evangelizing yesterday.

It's interesting. Whenever we go out evangelizing, the more pushback we get, the more fruit we get from that ministry. And, and we got a lot of pushback yesterday. And they, but the gospel went forth and God is faithful.

So worship today was great. And, and looking forward to Thanksgiving. This is coming up Thanksgiving. So it was, it was really good.

We had a good day. Yeah. Well, Tom, aren't you going to be guest speaking somewhere beginning of June? Yes. The middle of July. In January, you mean? Yeah. Oh yeah. January. My bad.

You got pushbacks. One of the days. So in January, I am excited because at covenant reform Baptist church in Tullahoma, Tennessee, I will actually, I've been invited to speak at on the Lord's day. And, and I haven't quite figured out what I'm going to preach on yet, but it's going to be a privilege, man.

God is faithful. It's something that I want to do, especially getting behind the pulpit before the conference.

Yeah. I was looking for a pew sitter that could fill in. So that's me. That's me. So, so as you guys know, I mean,.

There's a lot of preaching that, that goes out in open air. But the, the fact of the matter is, is when you're behind a pulpit and you actually have a congregation that is stationary and looking at you and listening to what you have to say, it's different animal.

Way different.

Yeah. Yeah. And also you're going to be down for third Friday, third Friday, third Friday, Friday cigar shop, Saturday evangelism Sunday worship. That's awesome. Tennessee, bro. That's right. We're gonna, we're gonna baptize you into the family.

So my wife and I,.

My wife, Debbie, who's watching, she should be watching the store. I think she's going to be coming with me. We're going to go to third Friday. Well, she's probably not going to come to third Friday. I don't know, honey.

You want to,.

You want a cigar? I brought my mom. I brought my mom. I brought my mom to third Friday. She smoked a couple of cigars with us.

We are not a respectful person. Hey, we're trailer park baby. We're trailer park around here.

Hey, Jeff grew up in Woodbine. I grew up in South Antioch, lower Antioch. I mean, we're pretty much from the same area, man. So we keep it trailer park, baby. Debbie, Debbie's good. She don't,.

She don't want to do that on third Friday. But no, honestly, I mean, it, it is a privilege and, and I'm honored to be speaking, especially, you know, one of the, one of the first sermons that's going to be preached at the new church too.

So, yeah, thank you for inviting me. I'm, I'm blessed to be able to go speak there. Yeah, that's the second baptism, Melissa.

Mellisa's own it tonight son. Right there's a screenshot for you. Right here, screenshot.

Melissa, you need to get X-communicator from your distance section. Leave that up there, leave that up there. Leave that up there. Boom.

And then she did this. How's, how was your Lord's day Braden? You know guys, it was it was a real blessed day. There was a lot of cool things that happened. This week was somewhat emotional week for myself.

Monday was the bulk of my sermon study and man there was a lot of tears shed just because this was my last Lord's Day preaching here in Hagerman, my last Lord's Day at Valley Baptist Church and so I get one more Lord's Day of being able to worship God with the saints here but the last time to actually be behind the pulpit unless sometime in the future visiting and whatnot.

But it was emotional it was good it was a blessing I got to preach on Romans 11 33 through 36 which is the oh the depth of the riches and wisdom and the knowledge of God how unsearchable are his judgments and inscrutable his ways for who has known the mind of the Lord or who has been his counselor who is first given a gift to him that he might be repaid for from him and through him and to him are all things to him be the glory forever amen and so great text to preach in I it was the text I read when I was first ordained at the church first called to ministry there and so I wanted to end my ministry here on that text because it is for from him and through him and to him are all things and so I wanted to glorify God with with preaching from that text right there and so it was sweet we did a really good there's a there was several people that I haven't seen in a long time that got to come out and and and watch the the preaching partake in the worship and of course just come together and fellowship with one another and so that was really good Nathan my good friend Nathan and Lindsay Nathan is the gentleman who actually read John 1 1 to me and is the the gentleman that God used to open my eyes and he got to come hear me preach for the first time out here the second time or so and so that was lots of fun to see him.

There was a lot of really good brothers and sisters in Christ that were able to come and it was just it was good to worship God with the Saints with my family here in.

Hagerman so is that the. So that's the last thing you're gonna preach. Is there gonna be another Lord's Day. You're actually gonna get to attend or is that.

It there will be one more Lord's Day to get to attend so there will be next Sunday and then after that we are moving to Moore Park California so it's so you're no longer a pastor. Valley Baptist as of December 1st is what we made the vote on and so that this is the last Lord's Day and so unless something if something pops up in the next few couple days me and Rick will both handle it but it's now Pastor Rick of Valley Baptist Church so that's awesome.

Yeah yeah it's crazy. And this will help Rick grow to like in so many different ways you know. Oh yeah I'm really happy for Rick. Me too me too yeah that's gonna.

Be great. Can't can't wait to see the move. And no when's the first day when you're actually gonna take the pulpit. Yes so the first Sunday I won't take the.

Pulpit be in there which I believe is gonna be the 8th because I'll just have gotten there on the Saturday and so because of the move and whatnot they we're doing a transition between me and Pastor Errol.

There'll be a celebration. I can't remember what day they said they were gonna celebrate the the 40th year anniversary of the church and his pastor it there because he's been pastoring there for four years since the church planted.

He was the one that planted the church and so he they're just amazing 40 years. And in pastoring a singular single church is unheard of right. And so that that's admirable. This man is one of the most humble men ever.

Right. And this man is one of the most humble men that that I'm getting to know. It's such a blessing to be able to come alongside of him and pastor this church. He's gonna be an elder at the church so it's not like he's going anywhere and so I'm really excited for that experience.

But we'll have a transition period where I'll be able to preach on the 15th then he'll preach the next Sunday and then it will just kind of go back and forth and fill in and be able to feel have that transition in front of everybody's eyes and see that take place.

And then my installation service is going to be on January 12th as of right now and at Grace Bible Church in Ward Park. So January 12th is the official day on that I will be the pastor at that point. So.

God has got us faithful. God is moving in me. Yeah. Answer in prayers 100

Throughout the whole process I mean big prayers things that there's I mean just Jeff talking about the building getting that and how many prayers and all the things that are just like how did that even come about.

God has been active in this whole process so it's it's pretty cool to see I mean the building you go.

Into more car park and making a few sitter preach from a pulpit. Unbelievable. That's my life first. Hey so we have a question up here. A matter of fact this will actually kind of get us into the yeah of what we're gonna be doing.

What time is the pre-conference of evangelism wins. Wednesday February 19th. And also we can introduce a new speaker that's going to be speaking at that conference Jeff.

What do you say what you go. We haven't really sat down and nailed down the pre-conference time yet because the regular conference days that we haven't decided if it's gonna be like a regular conference day ours because last year it was in the evening I was I was more so thinking that it would be afternoon evening because it is gonna be a little longer so I'm so like if I'm thinking it would begin it anywhere from 12 to 1 o 'clock.

Okay and those we are speaking.

We have Brian Ninde from Hearts for the Lost. We have myself Jeff Braden Patterson. And who's this guy over here. This this this big guy this big foot. I you're right just was a red red Bigfoot. So tell us about tell us about Sam and how he's helped you with your evangelism and everything else.

Evangelism, Church Planting, and the Local Church

Well so for those of.

You that I mentioned earlier the church plant you know we're a little over four years old and and I and I have been on the streets you know for the most part by myself. Every once in a while there'll be someone that would come out with me and stuff like that.

But but red has been like ever since. He's been a part of our church he's been faithful. And he's probably like you got part of me say this before. And I've also said it about you two gentlemen. Now when I get around y 'all you know all three of y 'all I really feel my inadequacy when concerning evangelism.

Like I don't think. That's my gifting. I do the work of an evangelist right. Because the scripture tells me to I'm going to obey the commands of God. And I'm wanting to do things that I'm uncomfortable with doing so.

I've been open-air preaching for the most part for over four years. Well for four years on these streets by myself. And then red come to our church and and he's been faithfully out there with me weekend week out and just.

I mean no matter where he goes he's evangelizing to people like it's you know it's beyond me how he does it like he's. He's just a true evangelist. I don't.

Even try man. Look there was some Mormons that came to my house the other day when I wasn't even here and my son tells him to come back and they came back and I was like yes man it was just awesome and I got to share the gospel with these young ladies.

I don't even have to try man. You guys just bring them to me it's.

It's it's crazy. Yeah. He's a true evangelist in every sense. And he's actually someone that we're looking my co-pastor and myself are looking at red to be our first ordained evangelist of Covenant Reform Baptist Church.

That's awesome. Yeah the gift is on him. You have to be blind deaf and dumb. Well if you were blind deaf and dumb you'd still see it right here and just and just fulfill it like you would understand it.

Like it's just he. He is an evangelist again. I don't say that to lift him up or to bring myself down. It's just you know the truth is the truth. I don't have that gift. But I do. But I will keep that commandment.

Yeah. I think all Christians should keep that commandment. No you know.

When we when we think about open-air evangelism and we think about there's a couple of questions that a lot of people ask online about open-air evangelism and going out and doing street evangelism. Number one should that person that's going out in street preaching anything.

Should he be affiliated or a member of a local church. And then number two is what is the point of evangelism. Is it just to is it just to make me to send the gospel out to tell people to to call on to be converted and then let them go their own way you know.

Or or is there actually a purpose in a method that God has designed to equip men for a specific purpose. So why don't we answer that a question. That question Jeff and I and I know this is going to kind of leading questions going to get into why we do evangelism what the purpose of it is why we do need to be affiliated with a local church.

Talk about some of that before before we do that real fast I would like.

To encourage the audience to get your tickets to that open-air theology conference. Get your tickets to the pre-conference because you're gonna hear all four of us speaking and preaching on this topic.

And then the reason that Jeff mentioned that we're gonna want to do it afternoon evening time for this conference is the plan currently is that we want to put this into real-world action where we encourage the people that are part of the conference to let let's go hit the streets and go and proclaim the name of Christ.

And so this podcast right here I think is gonna be really helpful for everybody that's wanting to get into evangelism already is doing evangelism or anything along those lines. Especially in light of what's kind of come in on February 19th.

It's gonna that day is a day not to miss. That day is a day to come out and proclaim Christ with us. So it should be a blessed time. But sorry I had to.

Interject that real quick. No that's it. That's a good point. This just because it's a pre-conference doesn't mean that it's lesser conference. It is just a extended day that we're gonna come out there if if you don't know how to get evangelism started in your church or if if you feel that calling to be an evangelist.

And you should. Maybe you don't have that quote-unquote. Gifting. Like like Jeff had said. But we are all called to share the gospel. We're all called to be his witnesses for Christ. To be able to share.

Be ready to answer. Man of the reason of the hope that is in you. With meekness and fear. We should all be able to do that. But what's the purpose. How did God design it. What is the do. We just go out there and throw out and call everybody to repent and believe and then let them go their own way.

Jeff what do. What's. What's the.

Purpose in evangelism well I'll say that you know that's something that's being done and it's something that I am I have done in the past but it's absolutely something that I've been convicted of as well you know when I read the scriptures I don't see I don't see where evangelism is separated from church planning right whenever you in which I spoke about it today and the message that I gave you know the purpose of evangelism was to grow the church right as many as believed or baptized and were added to the church and so what you see if you when you read the the book of Acts as well as the epistles what you see is is they would go from they would go into a nation they would plan a church they would evangelize fill that church plan another church evangelize fill that church plan another church once that nation had churches in it they would go to a different nation evangelize I mean plant a church evangelize fill that church plan a church evangelise please sure so on and so forth that's how the gospel has always spread yeah right nowadays you don't see that you see a church planet or, you know, and then they're just trying to grow this one individual church into a mega church, right?