How to Present the Gospel then Calls

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona, this is The Dividing Line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us, yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence.

Our host is Dr. James White, director of Alpha Omega Ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation. If you'd like to talk with Dr. White, call now at 602 -973 -4602 or toll-free across the United States.

It's 1 -877 -753 -3341. And now with today's topic, here is James White.

Opening Comments, Travel Plans, and Weather

Good morning. Welcome to The Dividing Line on a Tuesday morning. Quick programming note, we will not be here on Thursday. As I think during this particular point in time, I'll be driving from Philadelphia to somewhere in, well, driving to Tom's River.

I guess that's sort of in the middle of New Jersey someplace. So no Dividing Line on Thursday, but we, Lord willing, will be back again next Tuesday at our regular time here on The Dividing Line. Just a couple thoughts about various sundry things.

First of all, my apologies. I have not yet gotten up the response that I want to post on Jimmy Akin's comments on James Chapter 2 and the syntax of the Greek article there in James Chapter 2. I was quite honestly a little bit surprised by what I read on the blog there.

But I guess I shouldn't be. But we will be responding to that as soon as we possibly can, hopefully by this afternoon. But when you've got a short week and you've got to get packed and everything else, things just sort of pile up on each other.

Yeah, you know, I do need somebody in channel should give me the weather forecast for, say, a Friday. Highs and lows in Tom's River, because something tells me I'm going to catch back up with this front that came through here.

And I should probably bring some some warm clothes. I have a I have a feeling I don't know. Well, we'll find out. Don't want to don't want to forget about the fact that, well, it was pretty cold here.

It got cold here. We had pipes, pipes bursting here in Phoenix, and that's pretty unusual for us. No two ways about it. Yeah, that doesn't happen. In fact, I don't think we'd had a hard freeze in at least five or six years since 1990.

A hard freeze since that long. Yeah, you're kidding. Yeah, I knew it. And when you see the thing is, is the people back east don't understand how you have pipes bursting. Being in the desert, we don't wrap our our pipes.

We, you know, we bury our water lines two feet down in the ground as they come out from the street. And then we run them through our attic and they're not wrapped or anything like that.

And so surprise, surprise. Yeah, no reason, no reason to do anything like that. But, yeah, it's it was Sunday morning was the coldest morning in 17 years in Phoenix. And so, hey, what can I say? Let's see.

Friday high is around 40 chance precipitation, 30 percent. Forties. That's sad. It got up to what was it, 48 or something. Hey, I'm wasting time. Want to make some comments on the program about last Thursday and the result of of last Thursday.

As you may recall, I took about a half an hour and I played a few clips from the stop and think video. And, you know, could be a tempest in a teapot type situation. There's only a certain number of blogs and Web sites of people who would even openly proclaim themselves to be reformed who comment on things.

And there is quite a lot of disagreement. I felt a lot of disagreement that was based primarily upon assuming what you thought somebody else was saying and then responding to what you assumed they were saying.

I mean, there are folks within what calls itself the broader reform community that just just detest yours. Truly, there's no two ways about it. And so it doesn't matter what I say. It's going to be taken.

You know, they're going to hear it in whatever way they want to hear it and and twist it, whatever they want to twist it. And that's just sort of the way things are. And I'm accustomed to that. And it doesn't bother me nearly as much as it used to.

That's that's for certain. But, you know, I I posted a few blog articles. I discussed a few things in relationship to especially the the fact that it seems, you know, it's one thing we can all sit around and go, yeah, Dave Hunts.

What love is this? Boy, that's pretty bad stuff. But it almost seems like the the omnibenevolence viewpoint that he has of an undifferentiated love of God that can can in no way, shape or form have any distinctions to it gets lost on on even folks who call themselves reformed when it comes to certain areas like the proclamation of the gospel.

Now, I don't know how many times I've said this. Maybe I bet you Algo knows. We'll ask Algo and channel because Algo knows all things. And Algo knows everything I've ever said when I said it and what tone of voice I use when I said it.

That's why he frightens me. But Algo probably can can count up for us. How many times I have said we do not know the identity of the elect? How many times in responding to to the canners and responding to various people speaking down at Johnny Hunt's church, return the pulpit into an anti-Calvinism seminar location?

How many times have I said the problem with so much of this argumentation is we don't. It assumes that we Calvinists claim to know who the elect are. We don't. We don't know. And so that explains why we have all that experience in Salt Lake City and Mesa and standing along the what was that a creek with a cherry creek?

Was that was that where you're down? It was actually the creek we were in or was that sort of I forget.

I think that was right alongside the creek. It was down. Yeah, I was down in but we were there was another area. So there's like a walkway right along right along the creek, right along the edge of the creek.

But you almost had to climb down into it. It was really weird. Remember that?

That's everybody's walking through, you know, their way to mass on the way.

Well, to Cherry Creek Park, where there's the papal mass. Yes, that's where they were going. So anyways, that was where Rich and I were passing out tracks to the Roman Catholics.

We didn't put up pictures and we were looking for those people.

Yeah, well, that's right. Here's the elect. And we're like, OK, is that one?

No, not him. Don't give him a track. No, not him.

No, but isn't it good that we have gone so much farther now than we did? We could in 93 because now we have that special elect metal detector. That's right. And they just walk through that. And if they're elected, beeps.

And if they're not, it doesn't. And that works so much better.

But then there are those who exercise free will and don't want to walk through the metal detector.

And well, but that proves right then and there that they're not allowed to walk through the metal detector. So we've got it all figured out. We just don't know. So we passed out tracks to everybody and and, you know, people.

It's a matter of balance. It's a matter of balance. It really, really, really, really, really, really is a matter of maintaining some some balance here. Obviously, what seems to be missed by a lot of folks.

And I think we need to think about this. We've got a problem in our nation. Look around, especially at. Look around the churches at the churches in general. Don't don't limit it too much. But but look around at churches that at least try to take the Bible seriously.

Brother Tom Askell has rather openly stated that he views the Southern Baptist Convention as an unregenerate denomination. That our churches are filled with unregenerate people. And I think that's a very, you know, as he said at our conference, we've lost the gospel.

And I think that's a completely valid observation to make. I mean, in how many churches can you seriously preach the whole counsel of God and not get yourself booted out? That tells you something that tells you something about the nature of the people that are in there.

They are the religiously hypocritical. They are they're those who continue to bow the knee to self and have had a a Christian layer of icing put on top of them. But that doesn't change the inside. And how do you get churches filled with unregenerate people?

Well, you got to get them in there somehow. And so you use these methodologies, use these ways of getting them in there. But if you don't challenge their sinful rebellion, you end up with a church filled with sinful rebels who now think, and now they're even worse because now they think they're right with God because you have given them this promise that if they would walk down a certain aisle, shake a hand, do a certain thing, you know, fill out a card, whatever.

Boom, they've got their ticket punched on the way to heaven. I've really been thinking, I think that the utter heresy and I don't pull any punches anymore, especially after my experience with Bob Wilkin in 2005.

It's simple heresy, the heresy of the cheap gracers who actually believe that God has no purpose in salvation. None whatsoever. He's just there as the celestial ticket puncher and he punches your ticket and you're going to heaven.

And now he could care less about the rest of your life. He has no purpose in conforming to the image of Christ. Nothing like that at all. I think that heresy has had a significantly wider impact than most people think that it has.

Because there is this idea that, well, hey, as long as it works, isn't it better that it works? Well, is it working? Is your methodology working if it fills your church with unregenerate people? Now, again, there's a balance here because everybody can look back in time and you can look back to it.

Let's look back to Spurgeon's Day. Let's look back to England. I mentioned this on The Dividing Line before. I was there in, I think, February of last year and I was speaking in London. And so many of the questions came about hyper-Calvinism, about hyper-Calvinistic churches and people whose experience was coming out of these hyper-Calvinistic churches.

They can have no assurance of salvation, all the rest of this stuff. And I was a little bit taken aback by that because that's just not our experience here. But it certainly was over there and it certainly was in the past.

And you can have people who become so, again, unbalanced the other direction, that you somehow have to demonstrate an absolute perfection of salvation. You have to be able to quote the entirety of 14 catechisms before you can ever get to the door of the church.

And so you end up with nothing. Well, that isn't our problem here. And I think one of the things that's gotten lost here is that societies change, contexts change. Everybody's talking about, well, that video is a wonderful contextualization of the gospel message, the surfing and the California thing and so on and so forth.

Okay, let's really contextualize for a moment. What is the greater danger in Western society today? Filling churches, unregenerate people because you have presented a God who's basically your buddy? Or the dangers of the hyper-Calvinism that we were just talking about?

I mean, think about our society for a moment. Think about what has changed. All the biblical paradigms of royalty, of lordship. We live in the United States and everybody's equal. See, I've got my rights and God better keep in mind the Bill of Rights around here.

I mean, the idea of me being clay and he's the potter. Oh, no, no, no, no. Egalitarianism all the way, not just men and women, but God gets in on this too. And we may allow him to run around and play with stars and stuff.

We really don't believe it as that because there's natural processes and we're good naturalist materialists. When you really start getting down to push and shove, we've imbibed so much of the society there.

We're good naturalist materialists. God's just sort of overseeing these natural processes. He got him started. He clicked his fingers, did the big bang, and now he's just sort of doing his thing. He's not really overly involved with stuff.

But we'll let him do the things out there. But when it comes to man, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We don't want a creator like that. We don't want a creator who's actively involved in human experience.

Can't have that. So we want a God. And this is the main part of the video that just made me want to hide under chairs in place. We want a God who's actually able to get down on one knee and beg us for a relationship.

Beg us for a relationship. He's desperate, man. You just, oh, please accept me. I mean, we've got folks running around right now. They're trying to find. They're doing Google searches and PDF searches and everything else for the word beg.

Just trying to find someplace where, see, it's OK to be a Calvinist and say God begs you for a relationship. The problem is all those citations, this one particular person I'm thinking of has found, aren't in the modern context.

They're in a context where people still understood the idea of royalty and power and sovereignty. And we're not in that context. We're in a humanistic context. We're in a context where people think that they can make God our size.

And that God has to, well, in essence, respect my rights. We live in a humanistic post-Christian society, folks. And when you put God on one knee begging for you to marry him, not even the right paradigm there.

That's the church anyways, proposals and marrying and all the rest of that stuff. That's a church. We've got this individualistic Western society focused upon man. And you put God down his knee and I'm sorry, that's not what you're supposed to be doing.

And I can't imagine that there is anyone who would object to this from who claims to be reformed in any way, shape or form. We've got to remember the cultural context in which we're dealing with these things.

Because that's not the cultural context that existed even 150 years before people understood who Lords were. They understood where their position in society was. We don't have that anymore. And so all those elements of the biblical, those are gone.

And so that's why we have to emphasize these things. That's why we have to be careful about these things. Or we're going to end up presenting a God who's just really overjoyed to have you on his team.

And that ends up explaining what so many of our churches end up looking like today. How do you put together the fact that you say to people, well, what do you say then to people? What do you say in your Wednesday?

Cry to God for mercy. Cry to God for mercy. If you don't think that would be something Spurgeon would have said, you haven't read much Spurgeon. Cry to God for mercy. That's not the same thing as stop and think.

And, you know, God's on his knees in front of you going, please have a relationship with me. Look at all I've done for you. Have coming. Come on, man. Be nice. Look at all that God's done for you. Be nice to God.

That's not the same thing as cry to God for mercy. Because to cry to God for mercy means you're at the end of your rope. You don't have anything left. You have been emptied of everything. You see your absolute guilt before God.

You've been broken and you cry to God for mercy. I don't see that as the same thing as add God to your vitamins so you can have a better life. Now, one more comment along those lines. Don't make a massive mistake here.

Everybody jumps the idea. Oh, you're attacking Pastor Chan. No, I'm not. It could have been an actor in that thing. I don't care. I'm talking about one presentation. You're saying, well, you're taking out context of everything else he does in his ministry.

I'm not the one that spent I don't know how much money, which no one's even mentioned that, putting together this video. OK, the problem we have today is that we can't disagree with a position or a statement without people automatically thinking that we're trying to be mean to a person.

This is the same thing I've complained about over and over again with people like Dave Hunt, though, with historical individuals, early church fathers, they'll find something they don't like. Something they consider heretical and for someone like Dave Hunt, it could be not being a dispensational premillennialist, which would pretty much make everybody up until the 1800s a raving here.

Do you want to make him that? And you can go after him on that basis. And therefore, you can just dismiss everything that they ever said. That's that that is irrational. And that's not what I'm doing.

I would like to think that the illustrations I've talked about, the examples I've talked about in the video are just simply an aberration, that they're not a consistency. But at the same time, let's face it.

If they are an aberration in this context, they're not an aberration in the broader evangelical context of the United States today. This is what a lot of people a lot of people are getting the idea of what Christians are saying is, man, God is so desperate to have a relationship with you that he's on one knee begging you.

Instead of God commands men everywhere to repent, cry out for mercy. You know, and I just I see a contradiction between that kind of a statement and the earlier statement, the video about God's wrath and judgment and his law and stuff like that.

You know, and even though the law had already been sort of, I don't know, turned into the suggestions. Hey, you know, if you don't kill each other, you'll have a better life. No, you don't kill each other because God says not to.

He's your creator. Life is sacred. It's it's you know, I don't see those two is quite fitting real well, but as it may, at least something was said about God's wrath and God's holiness earlier on. But it doesn't seem to fit real well with the later presentation.

So. I just wish we could have discussions about this without all the personality stuff and this person said this and this person said that and that. It's I think the most disappointing thing has just been how how there's been almost no meaningful conversation.

It's all been knee jerk reactions and taken sides and lobbing bombs this way and that way. And I've mentioned this in channel. I think, honestly, honestly, that there should be about one one hundredth.

The number of blogs that allow for comments as there are. I am officially launching the anti blog comments movement. Now, everybody knows I don't have any and I cannot even begin to imagine what my comment section would look like on a regular basis.

Can you imagine the the Muslims and the Mormons and the King James only us and the Jehovah's Witnesses and the one this Pentecostals and and the atheists, along with the radical Armenians who would all be jumping on no matter what was said.

Can you imagine? Let's let's face it. If you want to say something on the Internet, there is nobody who can't go out and get himself a blog. Right. I mean, how long is it to say to set up a blog? You go to blogspot .com and what, you know, five minutes most if you're a slow typist.

And so if you want to go and and tell the whole world what you think, then get your own blog. No one's stopping you. The fact of the matter is what you end up having in comments is a bunch of folks who have blogs, but nobody reads them.

And so they go to the blogs of people that actually you go, you know, I'd like to know what that person has to say. And so you create your blog role or whatever and you go on these blogs and it's people trolling for more blog traffic to their own, in essence, in many instances.

But it really becomes the place where you just simply concentrate the ignorance of the Internet and theological subjects. And there is a massive amount of ignorance in the Internet on theological subjects.

Let me tell you that. And then throw in the problem of anonymity. No one can see you. You can hide behind your keyboard. And it's it's it's like, you know, leaving open containers of gasoline around. Guess what's going to happen over time, you know, like end of the last episode of 24.

Boom, boom, boom, boom. Very big boom. So I really think that especially in the theological realm, there there there should probably be something along the lines of, you know, either limiting who can comment to people who have demonstrated a capacity to do so over time or or, you know, from my perspective, my RSS reader doesn't even show comments.

I mean, if I want to know what somebody says, my RSS reader tells me I don't care about the comments. I'm sorry if I wanted to know what those folks said, I'd go read what they had to say, but I there's only so much time in a day to do what you need to do.

And how many decent discussions have been sidetracked by the comments section? They've just been blown up, torpedoed. So I'm starting the end of comments movement, and obviously I am the president of the movement because I've never had them.

What?

Boycott them. Boycott them? No, we're boycotting comments. Oh, well, we've always boycotted comments. See, there you go. Starting the end of comments boycott. Yeah, but we've always done that. Now I'm just inviting everybody else to join.

I mean, the Calvinist gadfly did it, but that's because he only he doesn't have enough time to keep up with it. But now I'd want it to become a conviction on his part because he's listening right now anyway.

So so anyways, there's just some some of the thoughts I've got on that stuff because it just it's been amazing to me over the weekend.

I did have one comment about the idea.

Are you a commenter on my audio blog?

Yeah, right now at the moment. Yes, I am.

Do you feel any inconsistency here? No, I don't. Is that because you have control of all the knobs and control?

I control the vertical and the horizontal at this moment. But the idea that the mental picture of Christ bowing or bending his knee to beg us and you talk about crying for mercy. And it just flies utterly opposite of what the gospel really is in the fact that it is to be as Philippians 2 10 tells us.

Every knee shall bow before him. It is our knee that is to be bowing before him, begging him for mercy. He doesn't beg us.

We are to be big. Oh, but there have been a few. There's there's two or three citations you can find where someone has used the word beg. Now, of course, is a completely different context. But, yeah, I am fully in agreement.

And that's that was my whole point. Every knee will bow and every time confess Christ the Lord.

I know. I know. Well, that comes later. See, once once you see, once you get him in with the nice picture of Jesus bowing before them, then maybe you can teach him over time. And then maybe someday they'll bow the knee in reverse.

Now, of course, what that means is what you're teaching him is what you got him in with was a lie. And I guess some folks don't have any problem with that. As long as it works, as long as we are pragmatic, then that's OK.

Now. A lot of you are going, oh, you're being mean to somebody. No, I don't. Actually, I wasn't. I had in all my comments just now, I was the only thing about one person when I was thinking about anybody at all.

Most of the time, I didn't have any particular individual in mind. If you're sitting here going, well, I think that was written to that person. And now he's got that and that. Not get off that stuff. Just listen to what I'm saying in general and forget the politics of I'm not a politician.

If if I was in politics, I'd be the world's worst politician. No two ways about it. I don't do the alliances thing. I don't do the you know, like I said in my blog and I mean this seriously. And this is this is this makes me very unpopular with a lot of people.

Believe me, I know you'll never see me up there with the big guys. Because I've ruined any chances of ever doing that because I refuse to take this filter and put it between me and this microphone in front of me or me and my fingers on the blog.

And sit here and go, OK, if I'm going to say this. All right. Now I've got to think about what this group is going to say and this group and this ministry over here and that individual and that author and this preacher.

And I've got to run it through all these things. And by the time you run the truth through all those filters, there's not much left of it. And to be honest with you, I'm just not smart enough. I'm just not smart enough to do that kind of stuff.

I'm just not sorry. Don't don't have the the capacity. Just don't have it. So there you go. Eight, seven, seven, seven, five, three, three, three, four, one is the phone number. And I'm afraid we have some calls, but I know that the one's going to take quite some some time to cover.

And I doubt you're going to be able to do the break for another minute and a half or so. And pray right there. OK. All right. So I'm going to I'm going to take a second call first, see if we can squeeze it in here.

Jehovah’s Witnesses Resources and Pastor Melissa Scott

Let's let's talk to Medford. Hi, Medford. Hi. Hi. What's up?

Hi. How are you? I'm good. I'm on the radio. This is Dr. White, right? Uh huh. I'm sorry. I didn't realize. I just have a question. I have had my first real experience with some Jehovah's Witnesses lately or recently, and I talked to them and afterwards I felt like, you know, it went really, really well.

Except for the man yelled at me, but his wife stayed and talked for about five minutes, which is very nice. But anyway, afterwards, I was looking through your Web site and I didn't see that you had any thing that specifically addressed Jehovah's Witnesses.

Am I overlooking a book? I have your King James only. I have your, you know, there's there's an entire section called Jehovah's Witnesses on the Web site.

Well, I think I've read all the articles. I mean, a book specifically.

No, there's no reason for me to write a book on Jehovah's Witnesses because I don't I don't write books that someone else has already written. OK, anything that I have relevant to say that I have either said on on the blog in the debate with Greg Stafford or in the Forgotten Trinity.

There are excellent works on the subject of Jehovah's Witnesses already out by folks like Dwayne Mignone. And so there's no reason for me to be writing books that people have already written. The Watchtower Files was real good.

What do you think of what do you think of John Ankerberg's book? I don't I don't have it. I I try to read specialists in the field. And so I'm forgetting the name off top my head right now of the other individual.

We have carried his books in the past on on the witnesses that have to look. But Dwayne Mignone and then there's somebody else that the name is escaping me at the moment. But there are there are, like I said, works by specialists that are that are the best.

And I don't. So Mignone would be the one to look up. Yeah. And there's another one. And I just right now can't can't think of the name.

OK. All right. Can I ask you one other thing? Real quickly. Just very quickly. I've noticed recently on flipping through the channel of a lady named Melissa Scott. And she does a lot of various languages on.

I don't know if you know who I'm talking about. Nope. Never heard of her. OK. All right. Well, then I won't pick up anymore.

OK. What kind of a channel are you flipping?

Well, she's on a religious station, and I don't know if you've ever just been flipping through. Next time you're flipping through the channels, just watch for a lady who is going into not only the Greek, but the Syriac, every language you can imagine.

She seems to be a pretty, pretty good as far as languages go. But her theology is, is, is not.

Well, that explains why she's going into Syriac. The only reason that anyone would ever need to go into Syriac and teaching is to refute a specific assertion made. For example, I was reading Craig Evans book on on Jesus last night and not reformulating Jesus, but not reconstructing Jesus either.

I can't remember anything today. Anyway, I was reading his book and he was responding specifically to a couple of extra biblical gospels and the claims by people like John Dominic Cross and that those are very, very early.

And so as a result, he had to deal with Coptic Syriac, especially in regards to the Gospel of Thomas and where it possibly came from and linguistic stuff. That's the only reason you would ever need to get into anything like that.

The only other reason someone would do that is that they have a heresy that they're trying to promote. They can't do it out of the Greek and the Hebrew, so they have to come up with something else as if it's somehow relevant.

And that way you prey upon ignorant people who are looking for a reason to disbelieve.

And that really is how it works. Her name is Pastor Melissa Scott. Well, there's a problem right there. Well, I know that. That was not even... It's Gene Scott's widow.

Yes, it is. So it's just a carbon copy of Gene Scott.

There you go. And I have a hard time. She's probably just repeating the lunacy that he put out.

She is. I didn't know if you knew any more about her, but obviously you know a little bit enough to know that that's probably what she's saying isn't really good. All right. Okay. Thank you, sir. We'll see you in October.

Okay. Bye-bye. God bless. Bye-bye. 877 -753 -3341. We'll be back after our break. Right here on The Dividing Line.

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And welcome back to The Dividing Line. Two things, David Reed is the name I was not able to think of there. His writings on the Watchtower Society, very good. I recommend those. And then, yeah, Pastor Melissa Scott.

Looks like his granddaughter, actually, to be honest with you. She looks like she's about 40 years younger than him. But anyways, yeah, and she's got a little backwards collar thing going. Okay, well, like I said, there's a lot of stuff running around.

Yes, but does she have funny glasses and a big cigar? That's the question.

I don't see the cigar thing going on here, which is good. It's best that they're not.