A Cure Worse Than The Disease?

The Moral Question of Pandemic Lockdowns

So Joe in your article you have a section where you talk about a cure worse than the disease. I Think that that's very important to discuss because you know people people have asked it's amazing the last week and a half.

We've we've tried to be extremely balanced and to affirm both aspects of this issue number one the seriousness of kovat 19. Take it very seriously. Make sure you're taking appropriate steps. Obey the governing authorities where they're using wisdom and you're saying that's righteous and that is loving my neighbor.

I'm gonna do all those things right so do those things right so that all makes sense to us. But then the other aspect of this is is thinking about Actually the larger segment of the global community. Not just your parents and your neighbors and your loved ones, but the whole global community that's gonna be just Dramatically impacted by this.

Yeah, I mean we have people talking and this is not conspiracy theory. It's just the numbers you shut down business for five six months. You're plunging us into a Great Depression. Yeah, and maybe worse than we've ever seen before in at least modern Western history who knows what this is gonna look like but you ask those questions and We need to deal with both those issues people saying okay, well then what's your solution?

What's your solution and I'd be happy to talk about that and we're gonna get we're gonna be getting to that but let's talk about this aspect Joe this the cure worse than the disease. President Trump brought brought that up and He was vilified for it.

Yeah, essentially Joe. It's been it's been this shut up. Shut up. We need to save lives. Don't talk about the future. Don't talk right now. We're saving lives. Don't don't say things like a cure worse than the disease right now.

We need to save precious lives lockdown everything down and you even mention is this cure worse than the disease itself? Oh, you're talking about conspiracies thought stuff and somebody accused me the other day of saying that I believe this is a hoax.

I thought.

Who's ever said that?

Never have. I'm asking a question as a minister of the gospel as a Christian How should we really be addressing this in a consistent way? So the cure worse than the disease Joe.

The Limits of Models, Data, and Official Projections

Well, I'm seeing in the last it's a great point Jeff. I I've seen in the last few days take the British magazine the the critic Has been raising some very important questions like this now when when you when you factor in Which is often not discussed the issue of co-morbidities in those who are both getting the disease and Dying from it when you look at differences between the various countries Which are considerable that take Germany or Sweden for example over against say Italy when you look at the question of excess mortality, so They're just very just to set up an answer to that question of is the cure worse than the disease in In Britain that I'm using Britain because this is something I was discussing with a couple of doctors today.

150 ,000 people die on average in Britain every between January and March every year 150 ,000 and the the the Imperial College Professor who Neil Ferguson who's been doing a lot of public statements on this and has been Advising the government has actually said that a half to two-thirds of The people in the UK who will die during this outbreak would have died anyway.

Okay, so that's not being uncaring This is this is the person who's been advising the government and they went and locked the the country down in in in the UK.

So.

When you pose questions like that, the issue is we don't really know Ultimately the course of this. All the models that you see talked about are just they're just computer models. They they cannot prove predict the future because the variables are So wide and so top professionals at Stanford like John iron IDs, for example is called the data utterly unreliable.

Rosalind Smith a smith in the UK professor of child health at UCL has said that the data in Britain is so Misleading it shouldn't even be used.

So.

When when that's the issue. Is it possible you're asking that could the cure we've got on offer right now be worse? And and I think that the as my article suggests, I think that the answer to that especially as we look at the picture globally.

Economic, Mental Health, and Global Consequences of Lockdowns

Could be could be yes, just think about some of the things we're doing just off the top of the head here. The the the the immediate implications of the the 2007 -2008 crash in the markets led to two years of a massive increase in suicides so studies have proven that somewhere between 4 .8 and Up to 6 .8 Increases in in excess mortality through economic suicide during that period.

You've got the the mental health crisis that's created through anxiety debt home foreclosures all of those kinds of things. You've got the loneliness and isolation of the elderly which shortens their life expectancy by the way in the UK the average life expectancy is Under 80 or just under 81 years of age after on average and the average age of those dying With coronavirus at the moment in the UK 79 .5 years of age.

So, you know when you look at that purely in terms of the broader picture These measures are being taken for a small Extension of a very small extension of average life expectancy among some of the elderly perhaps 1 if you look at the diamond cruise ship as Quarantine vessel is a good example of how many people what the what the mobility is is likely To what the death rate is likely to be the mortality rate so when you look at suicide you look at mental health you look at the Consequences of poverty you look at the consequences of debt.

So your country is just loaded up. Is it an extra 2 trillion 2 trillion 2 trillion 2 trillion dollars on to the mortgaging of the future? So you will and and here in the in Canada is something like 1 .7 billion.

We've just added to the debt and that's just for starters. The the consequences of that the consequences of unemployment and poverty. It kills this kill it's known to kill millions of people and what's happening it leads to the death and an early death of millions of people and What's happening in parts of Africa right now in Asia the developing world?

Some of the Asian countries which have actually handling this better not moving in this direction, but some of the developing world countries take India, for example are copying the West and imposing these lockdown measures and you've got the Migration of hundreds of thousands of people going on walking hundreds of miles because they've been thrown out of their town out of the city.

Back to their.

You've got people my parents had phone calls even today from people in Pakistan where they were missionaries for 17 years. Saying that they simply do not know what's going to happen. They're saying they're done for people have got no food.

The people in these countries live day to day to go to the bazaar with their small amount of money that they have to buy. Food that they're shutting everything down. So you're looking at starvation. You've got people being beaten trying to get to a health facility with the police enforcing curfews in these places.

So the global suffering that's unleashed when we don't take the broader picture into account with these mass lockdowns and basically the destruction of the world economy and Possibly as you said moving into some kind of depression if some of these things aren't lifted soon.

A Moral Objection to Sacrificing the Young for the Old

Yeah, I actually believe that the devastation will far outweigh possibly the 1 and I think that's high based on what I'm hearing from doctors and the data that I'm reading a 1 of the population with largely from the The much the the elderly and those with underlying Serious health conditions to to sacrifice the young their education their future.

On this.

And the the health outcomes the well-being outcomes for people around the world. I put it this strongly Jeff. I have a moral problem with it. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I have a moral objection to it.

That has been and it's amazing. This is the first time you and I dr Booth have spoken in in a little while and that's precisely the point that I've been making. But you just care about money. Well, that's it's interesting because that the same Principle I think applies.

What's what's being wielded as a sword dr Booth and I'm sure I'm sure you've seen this. If people say love for neighbor God commands us to love our neighbor. When you when you Question this when you oppose this in any way.

Complete lockdown destruction of global economy. You're not loving your neighbor and I stop and I say did you just hear what you said? Isn't it isn't it contained and everything you're saying it's okay to shut down businesses the global economy plunge people into poverty because I love my neighbor and.

Raise the questions is to love your neighbor and to and to bring this discussion I think to the to the front of the queue right now is the essence of what it means to love your neighbor especially in the midst of what I would call cynical and nefarious moves on the part of totalitarians and Marxists to Advance their agenda under the cover of this crisis and that's a serious issue in the courts.

It's a serious issue in in parliaments and senates around the Western world and what needs to be understood.

Marxist Opportunism and the Progressive Response to Crisis

Dr. Butte when you when you say that this is not tinfoil hat Conspiracy theorist stuff this not what it is. If you have read Marx if you know about the neo Marxist worldview if you've listened to these people if you've read their books You've read their articles if you listen to how they respond to these sorts of things.

That's part and parcel to their worldview. They there are moments like this that are seen as the catalyst To get to that new amazing world that they're looking for. I mean you've even got the governor of California.

Just saying openly we see this as a tremendous opportunity for a new progressive society an opportunity now to Reshape how we do business and how we have government and blah all the rest.