Easy Believism? Free Grace vs Lordship Salvation - John MacArthur vs Bob Wilkin

Hello, in this video we're once again going to talk about Lordship Salvation versus Free Grace. As a matter of fact, I'm not going to do the talking. I'm going to present both sides, and I'm going to allow the experts to describe their positions.

So we're going to hear from Bob Wilkin. He is one of the most well-known Free Grace theologians, or Cheap Grace, Easy Believism, whatever term you want to use. We're going to hear from Bob Wilkin. He's going to give his side, and then we're going to hear from John MacArthur, and we're going to get the other side of Lordship Salvation.

So let's listen to both men, and then I'll give my comments at the end. Let's start with Bob Wilkin.

Bob, isn't your view called Cheap Grace or Easy Believism? What would you say to that?

Well, yes, there have been a lot of people who have called it Cheap Grace or Easy Believism or even the No Lordship position, and they all drive me nuts because they're all pejorative and they're all inappropriate.

For example, Cheap Grace. Well, Cheap Grace implies that somehow saying that simply by believing in Jesus a person has everlasting life cheapens the blood of Christ, cheapens what Jesus did for us on.

The cross.

I don't get it. What he did, his shed blood, is not cheap. It's the most expensive thing in the universe. God paid the greatest price so that we could be redeemed, so that we could have everlasting life, so that we could be savable.

And so he makes us savable so that if we simply believe in Jesus, we have eternal life. Grace isn't cheap, it's free. That's why we call ours the Free Grace position. And Easy Believism, to me, is a tremendous misnomer.

Now Believism, okay, I assume everybody in Christianity would have to say they believe in Believism, right? John 11, 25 and 26, I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me, though he may die, he shall live.

That's the promise of resurrection. And John 11, 26, concerning the life, he says, he who lives physically and believes in me shall never die. That's the promise of everlasting life. And then the Lord says, do you believe this?

Well, the this has to go back to the one who believes in me, though he may die, he shall live. And the one who lives and believes in me shall never die. So whatever we believe has to include believing in him, because it's in both parts of John 11, 25 and John 11, 26.

So we all believe in Believism. The only question is, is it easy or hard? And by the way, Dr. Ryrie has made the point, one of my seminary professors, Charles Ryrie of Ryrie Study Bible fame, that it's really not so easy to believe in justification by faith alone, since most people reject it.

I mean, look at planet Earth today. Optimistically, maybe, what, 20 of the people on the planet name the name of Jesus and call themselves Christians. But most of those people are nominal. And the number of those people who actually believe that simply by faith in Jesus they have everlasting life is pretty low.

But let's be optimistic and say half the people in Christianity actually have at some point in their life have believed that simply by faith in Jesus they have everlasting life. Then that would be 10 of the world's population.

Is that easy Believism? If 90 of the people reject it and half the people in Christianity even reject it, I don't see what's easy. And the no Lordship position that John MacArthur and others have called, that's ridiculous.

Because we do believe in the Lordship of Christ and we can only be saved because it's the Lord Jesus Christ who makes this promise and who gives this gift. But the idea that we have to somehow commit to his Lordship or yield to his Lordship is a ridiculous addition to the simple promise of everlasting life to those who believe.

Okay, so that was Bob Wilkin explaining his free grace position. And now here is John MacArthur to give the other side, the Lordship salvation position. Listen.

Yeah, there is a reigning debate going on now. Some of you are aware of it. I mean, there is, it's really, it's really come to the point where it is, there's a line being drawn in the middle of Christianity right now over whether or not Jesus has to be acknowledged as Lord in order for a person to be saved.

There are some people who teach that you just have to acknowledge Jesus as Savior. You don't have to make any commitment to that. In other words, if you believe Jesus died on the cross and rose again, you just have to believe that and you're saved.

You do not have to confess your sin. You do not have to repent of your sin. You do not have to confess the Lordship of Christ. You don't have to submit to that. All you have to do is believe. Now historically this has been known as cheap grace or easy believism, but that's the critics term for it.

The term used by the people who advocate that is pure grace. They call it pure grace. And it comes in all kinds of packages. But basically what they're, basically they're saying grace is so much grace that if you put anything into salvation at all, you have fouled up grace.

So if you say a person must confess Christ as Lord or a person must affirm his sin and repent and turn from his sin and acquiesce in submission to Christ's control of his life, you're now adding works and muddling grace.

Okay, on the other side we say this. The Bible very clearly says that there must be repentance. The Bible very clearly says that you must confess with your mouth what? Jesus as Lord. Well, they say that the Lord there has nothing to do with sovereignty.

It has only to do with deity. So they try to prove that all that means is that you have to acknowledge that he's God. It doesn't mean you have to submit to his sovereignty. The problem with that is that is not what the term means.

And that can be shown again and again and again. You might be interested to know, too, that I think in the book of Acts, no, I'm thinking the New Testament, 300, it sticks in my mind, 300 and some odd times Jesus is referred to as Lord, eight times he is referred to as Savior, and whenever he's referred to as Lord and Savior, it's always Lord first and Savior after.

You can't redefine Christ under those terms. But basically, that doctrine comes because people have identified grace as a kind of super grace, and they say that if you add repentance or confession, in fact, in the back of the Ryrie Study Bible, it says, false theories added to the doctrine of salvation, repentance, confession, and the Lordship of Christ.

And Ryrie says that because he feels that if you have those things, you've added works to grace. Now, my answer to that is not at all. It is just that true grace, saving grace, produces repentance, confession, and an acknowledgment of the Lordship of Christ.

And you don't give anything away. You certainly aren't having a work. So I do believe that the Bible is relatively clear without, you know, going into a lot of detail that Jesus Christ is Lord. That is the confession of the church.

That has always been the confession of the church. And you see what they then say is, okay, these people who believe, just believe in Jesus, believe he lived, rose, died on the cross and rose, but they don't want to follow him.

They don't have to be obedient. They don't have to confess their sin. They just believe that. How are they different than the devils in James?

How are they different?

I mean, if everybody believes, you know, if everybody in the world that just believes that is saved, then it isn't a few who are finding their way in there because there's a mass of people in Christianity who give mental assent to that.

So what they say then is that you have one class of Christians and then another class of Christians, and that first class will be in the kingdom but not inherit anything. The first class are known as believers.

The second ones are disciples. And they call a disciple a second-level Christian, when you get to that second level. They do in the book of Hebrews, you know where it says, enter into rest? That's a second-level Christian.

First John even, they say First John is not contrasting an unbeliever with a believer, it's contrasting a first-level Christian with a second-level Christian. So they've got a whole system that they work that I think is just confusing.

And if you heard the term carnal Christian, okay, that's their term for the first level. Spiritual Christian is their term for the second level. And if you've ever seen the little bird book that comes out of Campus Crusade, they identify those three circles.

The first one has self on the throne. The second one still has self on the throne, but Christ in the life. The third one has Christ on the throne. The second one is the carnal Christian, Christ is in your life but He's not Lord.

So that's a comfortable category called the carnal Christian. And these people are saved, they're going to go to heaven, they just don't have any.

Evidence.

They don't have any fruit, they don't have any anything. To me that is... I reviewed a book that was written on that subject and I said the whole book was basically taken out of the white spaces in the New Testament between the words, because I don't see that as being taught in the Scripture.

Okay, so now that you've heard both sides, let me just tell you where I stand. I do lean more towards the Lordship-Salvation position. I've said that before. However, I'm reluctant to fully adopt that label because then people will assume, because that position carries some baggage, people will assume that I believe this, this, this,.

And this.

Or you agree with everything that these people on the Lordship-Salvation side, you agree with everything they say, and that may not be true. So I'm reluctant to adopt these labels, but I'm convinced based on my study of Scripture that according to Philippians 1 .6, he who has begun a good work in you shall complete.

It.

Romans 8 .29 and 30, that believers are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. James 2, faith without works is dead. All of that to say this, I am convinced that if somebody truly believes in Christ, there's going to be some evidence, there's going to be some fruit, there's going to be good works.

There.

We're saved by grace through faith, Ephesians 2 .8 -9, but we are saved unto good works if you read verse 10. So all I'm saying is a true believer, there will be some change in their life, there's going to be some evidence.

One more thing. As a pastor, what I do, I guide, I shepherd, I teach, I am not the judge of people's soul. God is the judge. Judging who is a true believer for all the people out there in the world, that's above my pay grade.

I'm not going to try to do that. Yes, a pastor has to fight off the wolves, so that's why we deal with false teachers, but my job is to shepherd and to teach the Word of God. People come and they join our church and we ask for their testimony, have you been baptized, and as long as there isn't some glaring issue where their life is totally at odds with the gospel, then they can become a member and we want to believe the best about people.

We want to be hopeful. Somebody comes in, wants to be a member, but they don't know what the gospel is, okay, well you need to be taught a little more. So pastors, and really all Christians, we want to come alongside of people and help them, and we're all in process here.

Nobody has it all figured out, but we do want to be biblical in all things, and I really do believe that Bob Wilkin and John MacArthur, I don't think either one are heretics, okay. I would caution people, yeah, there are extremes on both sides, but I think both sides have a point, both sides can be taken too far, and that's where I want to be, maybe somewhere in the middle, maybe a little more on one side than the other, as I've shared, but let's just look at what the Bible says, and again, I'm convinced by studying Scripture, if somebody truly believes in Jesus, there's going to be some change in their life, there's going to be some evidence.

So let's leave it at that. Thanks for listening, and until next time, may the Lord be with you, and have a great day.