July 27, 2016 Show with Robert H. Bennett on “Demon Possession & Spiritual Warfare” AND ALSO “A Lutheran Theologian’s Primer on Doctrine: What Unites & Distinguishes Lutherans From Other Heirs of the Reformation”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

It's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian

scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world

today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron.

So one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions.

Now, here's our host.

Chris good

afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arns and your host of iron sharpens iron.

Wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 27th day of July

2016 and today we have returning to our program Dr. Richard.

I'm sorry.

Dr. Robert H Bennett.

Almost slipped there because I have a dear friend who's been on this program named. Dr. Richard Bennett, who is a

Former Roman Catholic priest, but that is somebody entirely different.

This is dr Robert H Bennett who is executive director of Luther Academy an adjunct

professor of missiology and international mission specialist at Concordia Theological Seminary

in Fort Wayne, Indiana.

He is author of the two books.

I am NOT AFRAID demon possession and spiritual warfare and afraid Demon possession

and spiritual warfare in America the last time that we had Dr. Bennett on we

spent most of our time on that first book addressing the his

encounters with the demon possessed and demonology in the occult Overseas

and today we are going to be addressing primarily For the first hour his book afraid

demon possession and spiritual warfare in America.

The second hour we are going to be discussing discussing a Lutheran theologians

primer on doctrine and what unites and distinguishes Lutherans from other

heirs of the Reformation including myself being a Reformed Baptist and my co -host Reverend

Buzz Taylor being a Presbyterian and obviously, there are a lot others who are heirs of the

Reformation out there from varying denominations and the Lutherans do Have a

unique niche that they fill in that group of Christians and we are looking

forward to that to perhaps lay to rest some inaccuracies that may

be Perpetrated and also just to get a clearer understanding about what Lutherans truly

believe historically those who are truly biblically based conservative and

confessional as opposed to The many liberal Lutherans today that have abandoned their

Historical connection with the scriptures, but it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron.

Dr. Robert H Bennett.

It's great to be back with you again.

And let me introduce to you again on air my co -host the Reverend Buzz Taylor and welcome back.

And Before we even go into the topic

at hand again since there are No doubt some new folks listening that have not heard you on

this program before.

Why don't you let our listeners know about Luther Academy and also Concordia Theological

Seminary?

Sure, Luther Academy provides theological education really continuing education and

many parts.

We make sure we get the right professors sent there for

them.

Talk about one

of those.

Doctor great

and let me write off the bat.

Let our listeners know that they can join us on the air at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

That's CH RIS a RN.

Z n at gmail .com.

And if you have a question.

Please give us at least your first name your city and state and your country of residence.

If you live outside of the USA, and although I'm not requiring it, it would be interesting to know what?

Theological background you're coming from when you write.

Especially we'd like to know if you are Lutheran or not.

But as I said, you don't have to do that.

I just think it would might be interesting since we don't have many Lutherans as guests on iron

sharpens iron.

And that is not by design.

It just happens to be the case.

I have had Lutherans on before and I obviously have one on now and intend to have more on in the future.

God -willing, but we would love to hear from you.

No matter what your theological positions are.

Even if you don't have any.

If you have a question, you might not even be a Christian at all.

You might be an atheist or an agnostic or a member of some non -christian religion.

Well, we would love to hear from you.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Well since we are for the first hour.

Discussing primarily demon possession and spiritual warfare and that which

has been occurring in the United States.

I think it might be a good idea.

Especially for those who missed last the last interview.

We did if you could tell us what exactly demons are.

Well, of course there's always been a lot of

debate over that

and.

What would demon possession be as compared to oppression harassment.

Etc.

You

know

and

that's

just

or

Large

cat.

I think that's

a

better

way simply

that

that we

see

throughout

the scriptures.

It's

simply

big and.

How would the the phenomena be.

Different in the United States than you have witnessed overseas.

Really not too different except for so

followed

in the

US.

People are indirectly

do.

How

would you

define

spiritual warfare?

Spiritual warfare is

would

speak

the

words Be gone in the name of G.

Only one

exorcist only one

exists.

That's Jesus.

Amen.

Amen and.

And.

Obviously from what you've already said not only today, but the last time you were on there are varying

degrees in which the demonic realm can harm a

person.

And.

When you when someone is possessed.

Is it really like what.

How we've seen it in films for instance, I don't know how accurate.

Or based on fantasy these films are.

Of course, there's all different kinds of films as well but you usually see somebody who has

seems to have control of their senses and their thinking and then they are totally

overrun by a Demonic entity where the demon is speaking

through that human in a different voice.

There is.

You know, there there may be some kind of supernatural manifestations of the person being

elevated off the ground or objects being Elevated off the ground and being thrown around a

room all these kinds of things that we see in Hollywood.

How much of that?

Do you believe?

Occurs in reality.

And.

Like for instance you have Even different ways this is manifest in the Bible

with those who are demoniacs or demon -possessed individuals.

You have people running around like a crazed person without any clothes on and then you have another person

who was just blind and mute.

Now in the United States The the the exorcisms that are most

dominant.

And I and I'm just identifying them the way that the people who who perform them are

identifying them.

I don't know if they are real.

I think that many of them or much of it is false.

But you have some of the extreme charismatic groups Actually who call themselves

deliverance ministries.

Where you will have Christians.

Every time they gather.

Expelling demons often accompanied by vomiting and things like that.

Now, what do you make of that phenomenon happening in the United States with these groups?

Do you think this is some kind of psychosomatic thing?

Are these I?

Mean, obviously you you don't have the mind of God.

You can't know for certain what percentage is true.

What percentage is false?

But what is your what is your take on that kind of thing in those ministries in general?

We have Tyler from

Mastic Beach, Long Island who wants to know.

Do you find it common that many well -meaning Christians place too much emphasis

on the demonic?

Rather than the all -good and sovereign God of Scripture.

Absolute but if

you

go back

and

demon is

one

addition

for me

writing

my as if

he was no longer active people weren't being

if and that.

Yeah, that's

the very one of the

very reasons I wanted you

on the program is because.

Being a Calvinist and from a very conservative traditional

Reformed Baptist background and having most of my fellowship

although not all of it, but most of it I would say with confessionally Reformed Baptists and

Presbyterians you don't hear a lot about the subject of demon possession or demonology.

And.

Since it is a real thing Everybody agrees.

It's real because they believe in the inerrancy of Scripture and they see it in the Scripture.

And it's just a mystery why it's not being spoken of.

Some people always relegate it to the jungles of Africa or South

America or somewhere.

And it that doesn't seem to me to be even though most of it might be there I can't imagine that it would

all be.

And obviously you don't believe it is because you wrote a book.

And of course, we want to distance ourself from those that we hear on the radio that you know have

Exorcisms over the air and all that stuff too.

And right I guess is a very if it's a very common thing to for the pendulum to swing too far.

The other directional.

Right people we're prone to extremes.

Yeah, well one of the things that You will have our some of our charismatic and

Pentecostal brethren when We who are outside of the camps that are

more focused on the demonic realm when we may criticize.

A.

Pastor or evangelist That we believe might be a charlatan who is performing

demon who is performing exorcisms and We sometimes even

say that These men even appear themselves To

be acting like they're demon -possessed.

Our friends will point us to Matthew 12 and there's the

classic case and starting in verse 22.

Then a demon -possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus and he healed him

So that the mute man spoke and saw all the crowds were amazed and were saying this man Cannot be

the son of David Kenny, but when the Pharisees heard this they said this man casts out

demons only by BL's above the ruler of demons and knowing their thoughts Jesus

said to them any kingdom divided against itself as is laid waste.

Any city or house divided against itself will not stand if Satan casts out Satan.

He is divided against himself.

How then will his kingdom stand if by Beelzebub?

Cast out demons by whom do your sons cast them out for this reason?

They will be your judges, but if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God Then the kingdom of

God has come upon you or how can anyone enter the strongman's house and carry off his

property?

Unless he first binds the strongman and then he will plunder his house.

So They will say that You know Satan

Can't or won't divide against himself.

So therefore we should not claim that these Men are casting out demons by the power of

demons, but I guess we could say now this would be for you to answer Dr. Bennett, but I guess we could say that what

they're doing isn't really exorcism so that it's not really the same Kind of

scenario because these Pharisees even though they were opposed to Christ.

They knew what they were seeing was real exorcism.

Yeah, I think

that's a good way

to look at it.

Did that even say

it's

interesting.

We

have that

clear text from

Jesus, but

for

that case it

appears

in essence

spirits and.

Why would you say that Demon possession is

more prevalent in other parts of the world when Although they may have

rituals and religions that may invite this kind of thing it

seems that we have a People in political leadership right here in the United States

that are so blinded by evil.

They can't even recognize that what we are seeing in regard to the Holocaust of

Unborn children is something that's straight from the pit of hell and even those who are not

perhaps enthusiastically Supporting it and promoting it.

I'm speaking of abortion.

Obviously, there are those who are just very calm

and Uninterested in it.

They have a neutral position.

They just They they are very relaxed when it comes to this issue.

They don't think it's something that should overly burden themselves with that seems to be pretty overt demonic.

At least oppression in this country here.

But what are your thoughts on that?

Oh sure.

I think Paul helps us a little bit there in Ephesians chapter 2 as he recognized that everyone

who is Was born start in the Greek word

necros dead that all people are spiritually dead.

People

is wrought.

It's all

in the world is evil.

Not that

he's by his

will walking and

and falling over

and and you can't look at that

the same shape.

I was just gonna say that it sounds like the parking lot at Reverend buzzes church.

But yeah, and of course the The world has become the playground for all of this and and you know, like

Winston Churchill said one time that Sometimes people stumble across the truth.

But they get up and brush off their knees and walk on like nothing ever happened.

And that's what Paul said, you know.

He Paul was quoting Winston Churchill in Romans 1 when he said that you know We've some people

suppress the truth and unrighteousness even when they do come across it.

So it it hardly requires Demonic activity for them to reject the truth when they

see it because they've got enough of the flesh and the world to do that.

And I mean that is dead.

I mean, you know that people don't understand spiritual things.

When I was a pastor I used to be

admission many dear admission.

Hey get up.

Fine, you know, he won't hear you.

You won't understand.

And

same

spiritual things because really helpful or

demon or

all

demons

following the one

being those without faith.

And then the world provides Answers that seem to make sense to the spiritually dead.

I mean like like Chris your example about abortion, you know.

It's obviously murder.

There's obviously a death that occurs every time especially since doctors are doing it.

They know better and of course the argument used to be over whether or not it was life.

Now it's like well, it's like but so what you know, and but when if they have been

given permission by the world to reject that it's murder because They

cloaked it in terms like, you know, it's a woman has the right to choose, you know for her own body over her own

body, you know what to do with her own body and you know, they that That

helps them to suppress.

They look for any ammo.

I guess is what I'm saying.

They look for any animal they can to justify their position so they don't have to admit that what they

believe in is immoral.

Well, we there's a wonderful.

There's a wonderful book.

Topic and in any ways why this book is so helpful is

So on and so it shows

what those entity.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, and and as

you looked not

I'd always

existed, but they

weren't

common as we see Christianity Declining in the West although it's growing

quieting.

Yeah, we have to get a

break right now if

you'd like to join us on the air.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris ar n z n at gmail

.com and please give us at least your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside of

the USA.

And.

We thank those who have already Sent their questions and are waiting for them to be read and answered

on air and we will get to you God -willing shortly, but don't go away.

We're going to be right back with dr Robert H Bennett and our discussion on demon

possession and spiritual warfare.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arns.

And and before we return to our guest.

Dr Robert H Bennett and our discussion on demon possession and spiritual warfare.

Our Sponsors.

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We do have a Kevin in Mount Holly, Pennsylvania.

That who says I don't know how the Lutheran

theologians divide.

The the church offices that are mentioned in Scripture but

the the tradition that I am a part of only lists to elders and deacons.

Is an exorcist another Form of church leader or is this just

something to be performed by certain Christians?

No matter what role in life they may have.

What his problem was is he got so

involved

he did so

provide everything

we need as an immediate.

Should

be

study

and

we

have

George

in

Quagga,

New

York.

Who.

Asks Do you think that there is great danger in mistakenly?

Identifying someone who has serious mental illnesses with someone who is demon -possessed as has been done in the

past and Where there could be tragic consequences?

Right and

we're dealing with

those who are

mentally ill.

We recognize that was one who

loves to take actually what I

want a mutual.

Of course was much of

us a one who is demon -possessed.

Is that a formal

race against the

deep with maybe the help of G?

I think we need to look at exorcism a little bit different way.

One way we haven't talked about it is

if any of you ever received an exorcism before and of course I mean,

no one's gonna raise our hand unless maybe

Because

of has always been

a

little one

speaking

exorcist.

We see the exorcisms all of the time not to not that worse.

But in

essence

we're receiving

X and that he we would connect

back to

the absolution

presence wine

in our Essence.

We're hatchers not that we're

demon -possessed by a the devil

level in our life by his very

and

likewise.

So while we're not seeking to have exorcisms We're

seeking

seeking some non

chapter troll to be

a follow to be exercised.

I

think

most

translations

they cast off

the demonic

kind of a

long answer to the question there.

Well, obviously.

I'm assuming that you would also believe that there are people who truly need to be

under medication Schizophrenics and things like that that have been Certainly diagnosed

with some kind of disorder of that nature.

Oh, absolutely, and I make that point our Lord works through

means through vocations.

It would be inappropriate theology to to exclude that which God has provided

through God

deals with.

Already prepared for us and provides for us.

Jim in Kansas City, Missouri wants to know.

Do you attribute these the spread of overt? Homosexual

activity in this country to some kind of demonic Occurrences

or is this merely a product of man's depraved nature being given more freedom

politically?

Yeah, I think we can answer

that it's both might be.

Every one of us has a particular Propensity for some sin and usually we won't talk about that to

anybody even the closest people in our lives.

But they don't know what that is.

But in our society by making it except pushing it on

people. We're encouraging.

It's

a curiosity.

Did

you do

any?

Investigation in regard to this subject in areas of the United States like New Orleans

Where you have it seems.

I'm no expert on this but it seems that there would be a lot more concentration of

Occultic activity voodoo and those types of religions.

Santa Ria And that kind of a thing going on where it would be more

similar to the Situations in Africa and South America where you have people actually inviting these

spirits into their hearts and minds.

Well, sure.

And many times we talk about right

people are there that there's a many times.

They'd be

so cold

measures and

what I wanted to do a door and to

see who was going to these places.

What were they saying?

What were they

doing?

It's one person who thought they had he

gives them this drink a gallon of water.

But.

Attached to it and psalm 23 was a

part of another place.

There's a young man 12 years old or something.

It runs in the door with his dad.

Dad's okay.

What does this

look great on your voodoo wall son?

And then the son, you know tells dad no, I don't want that.

Instead he wants the death certificate of Marie Laveau.

That's fine.

Dad buys them all these little magical bags.

Well, you know the dad was just thinking this is cultural, you know.

Part

of the fun of

do what

he

wanted

those of

dollars all

in it where

people

have placed.

So these are common areas in our world.

But we're not looking at them.

I'd like

you to.

Basically summarize what you most want our audience to be left with on this subject right now

before we Transition.

After the break over to a primer on Lutheran theology.

If you could let our listeners know basically What you most want etched in their hearts and minds regarding

the subject of demon possession and spiritual warfare.

But the devil is not that we need to be a fact

that we need to even really think too much about him.

But we're it's like

mentally.

We don't need to

be afraid because death.

Already there on the

cleaning back into we need to know how to properly speak

the gospel.

So that people are not afraid.

And how could I avoid reading?

This portion of the great Lutheran hymn by a hero of the

Reformation that not only Lutherans look to as a great source of

inspiration and encouragement and knowledge but across the

Spectrum of Protestants including Reformed Baptists and Presbyterians.

Martin Luther is who I am speaking of.

Who penned that glorious him a mighty fortresses are God.

And let me just read this portion of the hymn.

And though this world with devils filled should threaten to undo us We will

not fear for God hath willed his truth to triumph through us.

The Prince of Darkness grim we tremble not for him.

His rage we can endure for low his doom is sure.

One little word shall fell him.

And those were very powerful and wise words from

the great reformer Martin Luther that I even as a Non -lutheran

Christian view as one of my heroes of the faith.

So and I think that most of those in my Camp of Christians would

echo those sentiments.

Well, you know and that him is it what I mean actually

knowing that the death It's driving the devil way

by never means to do so as a person to the devil.

You mean Christ has done and in the back of the book I provide 70 plus

hymns that I would

really identifying that that what's happening in the singing of those hymns.

Made real hymns as he preached.

Great.

Well, we are going to be transitioning now to a Primer on Lutheran

theology when we return from this break a lot of our listeners may be scratching their heads wondering why

I a reformed Baptist Radio host would be doing that and it is not because I am

converting or considering converting.

It's because the Lutherans are among our brethren in Christ and

those in our historic lineage and we all

share with us a great love and Respect and

gratitude for the Protestant Reformation which Luther was used most powerfully to spark

and of course there were men before him like Young who's and others who paid

the very greatest price for their? Attempts at Reformation by being martyred

by the Roman Catholic Church, but since we do all share in common those of

us in the The Reformation camp those of us who are theologically

reformed who consider us ourselves to be heirs of the Reformation.

We we have this shared history and shared lineage.

So I think it's an important thing to just be further educated on what some of our other

brothers believe.

Because there's a lot of confusion today.

There are just as there are many Presbyterians that have completely

apostatized from the faith as even my co -host Reverend Buzz Taylor will readily admit

to one of the reasons his denomination that he is a part of his exists is

because of.

The.

Liberal.

Apostate churches that have Sprung up under the name of Presbyterianism and

that have thrown away their history their heritage and their biblical roots.

But there is a lot of confusion with Lutheranism today as well.

Especially since some of the larger denominations if not the largest in the United States

Seems to be nearly completely sold out to unbiblical

Tenets and so on.

So we we wanted to get somebody from a conservative

confessional historically Lutheran background to Basically

let our listeners know what unites us as brothers in Christ The Calvinist and the

Lutheran.

And also what sets the Lutherans apart what distinguishes them amongst other heirs of the

Reformation.

So if you'd like to join us on the air our Email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Whether you are Lutheran Presbyterian Baptist Sweden Borg enist Atheist

agnostic Jewish Muslim Hindu We would love to hear from you.

No matter what religious background you may be from a Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And please give us At least your first name your city and state in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA don't go away.

We're gonna be right back after these messages.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Barnes in if you just tuned us in for the two hours today.

We have as our guest Dr. Robert H Bennett and for the first

hour, dr Robert H Bennett was discussing demon possession and spiritual warfare and

Now we are going to have dr. Bennett who is a Lutheran.

I give a primer if you will or a summary of historic biblical

confessional Lutheran doctrine and teaching.

And we're going to learn how Not only the Lutherans are

united with other heirs of the Reformation Like Presbyterians and Reformed

Baptists and others, but there's also things that are unique about That branch of the Reformation that

sets the Lucia Lutherans apart and distinguishes them amongst other

reformed folks and Our guest dr. Robert H Bennett if you missed

his introduction at the outset of the program.

He is executive director of Luther Academy.

And he is adjunct professor of missiology and international missions specialist at Concordia Theological

Seminary in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and if you would like more information on

Luther Academy, you can go to Luther Academy calm.

Luther Academy calm and also Dr. Bennett

has his own website.

Dr. Robert H Bennett phd .com.

Dr. Robert H Bennett and Bennett has two T's at the end

phd .com and Well, it's great to start off the program on

This topic that I haven't done in quite a long time.

I did it once before something similar on iron sharpens iron on the old program with Reverend swirl

up.

Do you know a pastor swirler?

I sure do.

Yeah, we had something similar.

We called it Lutheranism 101 I believe when he was on a number of years ago,

but there is a lot of as I was saying admiration of

Martin Luther himself and That branch of the Reformation.

There is a lot of admiration shared amongst those who are not Lutherans today those who

are Presbyterians those who are Reformed Baptists those who are Reformed Anglicans

Congregationalists and members of other groups who fondly view

and are immensely and enormously grateful for Martin Luther and how the Lord used him

and Those who would follow him in the Reformation.

If you could tell about tell our listeners about the Missouri Synod denomination first of

all because of the fact that immediately very often when I speak to an

Evangelical perhaps a conservative evangelical they might have a knee -jerk reaction.

Where they say aren't Lutherans just all liberal.

I know the Lutheran congregation down the the block was a female pastor

they Have they they get into the gay pride march and all this kind of thing.

What are you talking about?

Well, how on earth could you think that they are somehow your brethren in Christ?

Well, obviously there's just like there's different kinds of Presbyterians

and Congregationalists and Anglicans and even Baptists.

Let's not forget that Bill Clinton Was a Baptist or is a Baptist and there are other

Baptists who are certainly not Demonstrating that they believe in the Christ

and the teachings of the scriptures, but Tell us our listeners about the

Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod and also about some other Lutheran bodies that you would believe would be

faithful heirs of the Reformation.

Sure, the the

doctrine for laypeople.

Professor

look

at

our

confessions

at

representing

the way

that they

simply

contain

in them

the word

that all

of these

are in.

Now I have become aware over the years of the Wisconsin Synod.

How would they differ?

I know that they seem to have a stricter guideline as to Who they would have

fellowship with and how that would be conducted if at all.

But if you could tell us about that and any other body of Lutherans that you think today

may be.

Trustworthy in regard to their teaching and

practice.

Church

body.

Church body as

well.

So we have

the

three and.

Are the Lutheran brethren truly apart in any sense of historic

Lutheranism or is that a completely different type of Christian denomination and background

in my view.

Well, there is a program that you may be familiar with that I know a lot of my listeners are

no doubt familiar with it's called the White Horse Inn That is hosted by

Mike Horton who is from the United Reformed Church of North America.

Which is basically from that denomination is more in line with the Dutch Reformation

he co -hosts that with Rod Rosenblatt who is a Missouri Synod Lutheran and Kim Riddle

Barger who is another member of the United Reformed Church of North America and There is

also Ken Jones who happens to be a Reformed Baptist.

That from time to time is involved on the panel there with Mike Horton and so obviously

as that since they have done Many many programs over the years together.

There is a lot that they share in common and there seems to be

a lot of Those Christians in my camp who are Calvinistic

who when we read Luther on many things.

Especially the bondage of the will one of the the most important debates

That was a part of the Reformation.

And.

We scratch our heads wondering how there could be like a completely different denomination other than the fact

that we acknowledge there were differences between Luther and Calvin on these sacraments, but

Let's start with for instance the The total depravity of man that

obviously has relationships with the bondage of the will was there much of a difference between Luther and

Calvin on that issue and And in regard to also the the

primary or most dominant thought of Lutheran Scholarship today that it would be coming from a confessional and

conservative background.

Sure.

Because

let

he

forget

the bondage of

the wife

and

then

that

he

recognized

that

it

said.

So

you're

saying

basically

that

Luther.

Relegated a lot more to mystery than Calvin or his successors would

have.

Right, if God did not

clear well

now we are

coming up.

Since you brought it up earlier the 95 theses.

We're coming up on 500 years from the posting of those 95 theses on the chapel

door in Wittenberg.

Could you address that a little bit.

And then I'd also like to know what kind of a celebration you're planning for that.

Yeah, those those were primarily a protest against the selling of indulgences, correct?

That's

correct.

Not need to

worry.

We thought that it was just

something that

the knowledge if I've these

who's

mentioned and what was

being done in his name.

And of

course as

it turned out as

I mentioned earlier it

was

problematic

in the

Roman

Catholic Church.

Luther never wanted to separate from the Roman

Catholic Church

and reform

it and of

nature of the

church.

This is what clearly not would you say that that would be.

It was that where the word?

Protestants first applied to the church.

Yeah, I think we find it in that time period.

It's although it's interesting that Generally was

Protestant

touchy

subject,

but but we we

understand ourselves

and.

Going back to the bondage of the will issue I Can

recall years ago?

The late David Hunt was involved in a Radio debate with a

friend of mine who happens to be a reformed Baptist theologian. Dr. James or white and it was really it was Not a rigidly

timed debate.

It was more of a discussion where they were disagreeing and Dr. White

after Talking to David Hunt about his understanding of the freedom of man's will

Dr. White said does it bother him?

And by the way, I don't know if you're familiar with the late David Hunt, but he was also Very opposed to

Roman Catholicism as is dr. White and as I am

theologically not the people.

But.

Dr. White brought up to David Hunt known known.

Perhaps primarily for his attacks on Catholic theology.

He said doesn't it bother you that you are really siding with Erasmus and the great

debate with Luther on the issue of the bondage of the will and.

That's where David Hunt really waved the white flag and said I don't even really know what you're talking about.

I'm not really an expert on on that on the history of those things but

It don't you think that the seems that most of The evangelical world today

has more of an understanding of the human will that Erasmus did with a Roman Catholic

rather than Luther or Calvin.

Exactly.

Especially we talk

about

evangelicalism

and the will

has the ability to to move to walk to.

Don't choose

to go

to that

one.

Before we go to the break, I think that unless I missed something somehow I don't think that you answered buzzes question about any

plans for a 500th Anniversary celebration of the 95 C thesis being

nailed to the Wittenberg door.

Oh.

Absolutely.

We have a site.

Reformation.

The whole

host of things.

We are going to a break right now.

We do have a few people waiting to have their questions asked.

Waiting patiently, I hope.

And When we return from the break our email address is Chris Ornson at gmail

.com.

Chris Ornson at gmail .com if you'd like to join those who are already waiting.

To have their questions asked you can have a question of your own and we ask that you at least give your first name

your city and state in your country of residence and We will get back to you as soon as

we can and so don't go away we're gonna be right back with dr Robert H Bennett

and our primer on Lutheran theology.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arns.

And if you just tuned us in our guests for the full two hours today is dr Robert H

Bennett who is a Lutheran missiologist and author.

And our first hour we were talking about demon possession and spiritual warfare and our second hour

We are now discussing a primer on Lutheran theology and what

unites and distinguishes Lutherans from their brothers in

Christ who are fellow heirs of the Reformation.

And if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arns and at gmail .com.

Chris Arns and at gmail .com.

And We have Tom a Missouri Synod Lutheran in West Islip, Long Island,

New York.

Who wants to know?

Why is it that the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church forbid.

Pentecostal

or charismatic

practices.

And by

the way,

Tom

you

are

getting

free of charge

as our

gift

to you a.

Copy of The Saving Truth by the late Kurt E.

Marquardt.

Did I pronounce his name correctly, dr?

Good and.

If you could give us your full mailing address Tom.

We will have that shipped out to you and that's going to be shipped to you by our friends at the Cumberland Valley Bible book

service.

Cv bbs .com.

Cv bbs .com.

Thank you for the question.

There are I know specific Lutheran denominations that do welcome

charismatic practices of the sign gifts and so on

speaking in tongues that they would deem to be angelic and Healing services and so

on.

Is the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church across the board.

Not permitting these things to take place or is that more of things that take place on an individual basis or

what have you?

It would

not be

a why they

should

indeed even the

speak

even if I did, you

know, for

it's

right

I'm

this

false

healing

committee

standing

although

and.

We do have Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island again.

He asked was the split between most confessionally reformed and Lutheran churches

started with the debate between Luther and Zwingli on the doctrine of

Transubstantiation, I think he must mean consubstantiation, but if you could explain the

differences between The Lutheran understanding and the Roman Catholic view and will obviously answer Tyler's

question about the rift between Luther and Zwingli.

Sure,

it's

a point

even

that

is my

body.

This

is

who

are

taking

the memorial

and

guess

what

Tyler?

You're also receiving a free copy of This book that we are giving away today that

we just mentioned that is the saving truth by Kurt E Marquardt

a late Lutheran scholar now in glory with Christ and If you give us your full mailing

address, we'll send that out to you.

Now going back to the division between Rome's understanding of transubstantiation

and consubstantiation if you could differentiate the two as clearly as you can in the brief time that we have

and also Perhaps if you could comment on I on something I heard from a

Missouri Synod Lutheran pastor and I don't know if you agree with him or not, but he said that

consubstantiation was only a theory of a possible Explanation

of The Eucharist and not a dogmatic certain definition of it

or what is sure.

Lord

say that it's only

bread

and wine

and it's just a memorial meal.

Find that mitigating position and.

The the Catholic view is actually that the The elements are become the body soul and

divinity of Christ and they worship.

Those elements do Lutherans worship.

The elements of the Eucharist know.

In the Roman Catholic Church, they even have the tabernacle.

Yes, put

that up

and

people

throughout there

is one

thing

to

work.

How

long

right?

And that's

why

people I.

Was raised Roman Catholic and you genuflect?

Because of that tabernacle that's up there on the altar because you believe that Jesus is there in that tabernacle.

More.

One of the things that it is hard for us who are Calvinist to wrap our heads around and that would probably

be me specifically since I'm the one bringing it up, but the great

solos of the Reformation which include Sola Fide and Sola Gratia.

We can't understand how Luther could have believed in those so passionately that we

are saved.

By faith alone through grace or by grace alone through faith alone.

How that can be simultaneously held as a pillar or pillars of

the Reformation or of? biblical Christianity and yet also believe in

baptismal regeneration if you could.

Respond to that because that seems to be something that seemed they seem to be two things conflicting with each

other.

Right and There's always been a

back

and you

look

Peter reminds them

and

and then

reminds

us that

sinners.

We've already talked

about originals

and it's not

a work

of

when the

water

is we're

saved by

in

Nassau

County.

Long Island wants to know if you agree with the Lutheran World

Federation's Participation in the joint declaration on the just on the doctrine of justification

with the Church of Rome.

Absolutely not.

Federation bodies that

kind of

connected

with

you.

Thank you very

much

for.

For sending that Question in Peter and you are also getting a free copy of the book

that we have been discussing the saving the saving faith by the late Curt E. Marquardt

and That is I mean if anything that the

Lutheran Church would consider a Hallmark teaching its justification by faith alone.

Is it not?

I mean, I don't know how there could be any Sympathy or mingling of understanding with the

Church of Rome's stark contrast to that.

Which is can is clearly condemned at the Council of Trent justification by faith

alone and that condemnation has never been lifted or banned or

overturned or Apologized for because you could not sustain the concept of

papal infallibility by by by overturning that so.

I mean, am I right

on that?

There's not one of the.

You're exactly

right.

It's an action.

That's righteous.

God is our

action.

He's by

his grace.

And then Javier

in patchogue Long

Island wants to

know.

Are there any Lutherans who actually would agree? With Calvin on

unconditional election and when I speak of any Lutherans I'm of course speaking of ordained

men not just average people in a church who could have a wide variety of beliefs.

So you Would think that universally the Lutheran confessions would oppose

that teaching because it's kind of interesting that Calvin himself Believed as do many

Christians today that Augustin firmly believed in that and Luther was an Augustinian

monk and also seems to have had Have had been influenced by Augustin

himself.

So maybe I miss maybe a

Unconditional election, you know that there are a specific number of elect individuals that

God has pre -ordained before The beginning of time that he.

By the

way,

Javier, you

are getting

a

free

copy of this book that we have been discussing the saving faith.

By the late Kirt E. Marquart as well.

If you give us your mailing address and.

We do have.

Let's see, we have Lawrence and center each Long Island.

Who wants to know.

What are the Boundaries of fellowship that Lutheran, Missouri synod

pastors are permitted to participate in.

And so we want to.

And if you

have a

confession you

why you confess this.

The differences are sometimes do you have

I know this is a lot to say in 30 seconds.

But if you could just summarize what you'd want to leave our listeners with in about 30 seconds because we're running out of time.

Lutheran church

and even the early Reformed documents indeed.

I have.

Well, I thank you so much

for being a

part of our

broadcast today.

I apologize for the couple of folks that were waiting to ask questions that couldn't be on today.

But just keep in mind that you can always go to dr. Robert Bennett PhD

comm and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives Jesus Christ is a far greater

Savior than you are sinner.

We look forward to hearing from you next time on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.