Does the Long Ending of Mark 16 Belong in Our Bible?

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It's you said statements either true or false. I gave you a statement and you said it doesn't apply Not do that.

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It's not only to that statements would be either true or false So is it true that I'm talking to you?

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Is it true? That is true statement. I'm talking to you. Is that true? Yes, okay. Is it true that babies exist?

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Well, I mean how babies exist Babies exist. Is that true or is it not the case that it's true?

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I mean We are live apologetics live here to answer your most

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Challenging questions you have about God in the Bible We can answer any question that you have about God and the

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Bible if you doubt that go to apologetics live calm Join in the discussion

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Challenging question just remember one thing. I don't know is a perfectly good answer

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I am your host Andrew Rapport the executive director of striving for eternity and the

01:38

Christian podcast me of which this Podcast is a proud member. So with that we're going to be having a discussion once our guests get in on the topic of Does the ending of Mark 16 belong in our

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Bibles? Have you ever considered that before? There's actually a lot of discussion on that and we're going to hopefully get into that Once our guests get in here.

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I don't have a co -host with me right now He is taking the night off since we had two guests in so one guest is mr.

02:15

Aaron Brewster Well, he's regular here now or becoming the other is dr.

02:21

Keith Foskey I know people don't know that he has that couple initials in front of his name doctor

02:27

But we'll call him that so He is working on preaching through Matthew 16

02:34

We did a show we were on I was on his show and we were having a lot of fun and we

02:39

Said hey, he wanted to see you know, the Aaron and he wanted to come on. We wanted to have discussion

02:45

We decided to do that as a topic. So that is one of the things that we're going to look to do we are

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We will answer your questions if you have the way to join in asking a question the best way is to go to apologetics live comm and If you go there, you can as I said scroll down to the stream your icon.

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That is how you join us just give permission to your for your browser to use your camera and your

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Microphone because if we don't hear you, well that doesn't do much good here. So We will be looking to have your questions if you go well,

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I really don't want to do that I don't want to be on camera. Well another way you could do it and this is the advantage of Watching this live is to go on the apologetics live comm and if you go there

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You will see watching it right there is the YouTube link and if you click on that to go to YouTube That will help for you to be able to see all of the well typically very interesting and lively Conversation that goes on that as a host it can sometimes be quite distracting and quite fun.

04:03

So let me bring in Dr. Tosky and mr.

04:11

Aaron Brewster rub it in every single time Not actually it's you know,

04:18

I I said before you guys got in here that most people don't know he's got a doctorate actually Mr.

04:23

Keith Foskey here. Dr. Keith Foskey So we're gonna call him that on the on the show tonight since we're gonna talk, you know

04:29

Technical things and not be the humorous that he normally is known for. Well, it's actually really serious It's a doctor of podiatry, right?

04:36

Well, I was gonna say it came in a Cracker Jack box So it really doesn't if you filled it in yourself, you just write in is like pH dork

04:44

Is that sort of like the one that Joe Biden has Joe Biden has a doctor.

04:49

She sleeps with him. I Mean like in the same bed, they're married. I hope they sleep in the same bed.

04:55

I Said Jill Biden. She's the one that's the doctor, right? That's what I said. He has a doctor and she sleeps.

05:02

Yeah. Yeah. Okay Okay, so Keith some folks may not know who you are because you're you're actually you're that guy

05:11

I am you know we've talked about you being that guy and what I mean by that is the very

05:16

I had that exact this exact same thing when you and I first met I saw you online we're

05:23

You know Preparing to go to a conference you were at that conference. I looked at you and said yeah

05:29

I've never met you before never seen you before and then you played a video of the

05:37

He's brushing it Her Pink We came in from a birthday party.

05:43

I'm like, we're just rolling in here Today is the 44th birthday of a a

05:49

Ron Brewster. And and so we were we were really pushing it to get her on time Yep, there was the cake and I had to brush my hair

05:58

Yes Your activity that that you're doing that you've been doing today but Or this whole whole week maybe but for folks that don't know who you are

06:10

Keith I mean you're you're you're most known for your very humorous videos on the internet ominational

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Meetings of different things and that's where I saw that video and oh wait, you're that guy

06:24

Yeah, so Kathy is saying happy birthday a .m Thank You Kathy By the way,

06:31

I'm trying to connect with my laptop so I can have fun in the comment section Like I always do don't let me into the studio Well, I don't have to let you into a studio you just go go on to Facebook or to YouTube and You can do it there

06:45

You don't have to be you know, I always just do it from StreamYard. I never okay So so Keith let you if it could just introduce yourself to the audience here

06:57

I don't I think this may be your first time on apologetics live I don't remember it is you've had me on your you've had me on your other show before but it's

07:04

I think it's impossible to Be on all of your shows because you have so many and so like to be on all of your shows

07:10

It'd be very difficult. You're very you stretch yourself. Very very why you stretch a very wide net my friend

07:15

I I thought you were gonna say that I stretched myself thin and I was gonna you know Comment since you made it you made a comment about me making a size joke to you.

07:25

I was going to say hey It's already I knew

07:33

I invite you into my home. I Studio space with you you invited

07:40

Aaron into your home and studio. Not me. Let's get that straight. That's the problem He's blaming me for fighting the whole world in this is my studio

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You asked actually I was honored to step in here. It was like it was just stepping in. This is the

07:52

Holy Holies Yeah, we're the really the magic happens does the sanctum sanctorum

07:58

Yeah, so I my name is Keith. I like long walks on the beach. I like to Read and to eat

08:06

Oreos in bed. Oh wait, you're running my like, I'm sorry Don't eat

08:11

Oreos in bed that attracts bugs Okay Best in you

08:18

Keith I could see I make I make jokes about Denominations and for some reason people think that that's great.

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And so that's that's basically who I am Oh, and I also pastor the same church that I've been in since I was seven

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And so that's that's pretty important to back That's the most important thing I did in my life outside of having six children and a wife who loves me

08:37

And I'm very grateful for that Yes, we're you know, so this this week you guys are together doing in a

08:46

A karate camp that you're you're running and you brought Aaron into I Don't know why you why did you bring

08:54

Aaron to appeal could see how not tell you I'll tell you exactly why he brought me in. He felt he felt indebted to me

09:01

He we were both in Tennessee and then he drives away and about an hour

09:06

How many hours was it four hours? I was four hours into an eight -hour trip four hours later

09:12

He's a phone call from me said hey Keith do you have all your luggage and because one of the one of the his bags was still at the house where I was so We he turned around and I was actually just going the same way

09:25

He was going for the most part and so we met halfway back and it was there and he's like hey

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We're both martial artists. I got this thing. I think he was just feeling bad one way to say. Thank you That's true.

09:37

Cuz you know, he did he didn't invite me and I do martial arts, but no no, I get it No, I I did something special for him.

09:43

Well Your martial art, I will say this it certainly wasn't a it was not a

09:50

Just a thank you, but I am very thankful for what Aaron did for me But on the drive back, you know,

09:57

I got that two hours because I'm four hours down You're gonna meet me two hours back. I was thinking about like just how nice of a person you were

10:06

And I said, I'd really like to introduce you to my students knowing that you and I both have A similar background of martial.

10:13

It's not the same you you you have a different style But we both been in about the same amount of time.

10:19

We both do a similar style of movement We talked about that this week. Yeah, and we both teach different weapons.

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And so Knowing that you did nunchucks. I knew the kids would love it And I will say this he's taught nunchucks all week to the kids and it is the world's most dangerous fidget spender

10:36

My son has been just playing with it. And I'm like, that's a fidget spinner that can kill you like it well,

10:42

I I can from personal experience tell you that if you're if your nunchucks are made of cocoa ballwood and You accidentally slap them upside the back of your head.

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You can knock yourself out Completely unconscious, but I saw stars a cocoa bowl.

11:03

It's very hard. My nunchucks are made out of cocoa bowl would I have several that I made myself

11:09

So yeah have some, you know, I'll have to get together with you Aaron and we'll have to you know, I have to check it out

11:15

Yeah, we could check it out. I actually do have you know When you for folks that don't know when you get to a certain level you have to move your own

11:24

You have to do your own movement. You have to do your own You have to at least in in my style that I was doing issue and so I had to develop my own

11:33

My own moves that I did with nunchucks So ones I think are still that I don't

11:39

I haven't seen anyone else do but that's okay Aaron will probably go. Oh, I've been doing that for years No, I guarantee you it's original to you percent so One last one last little piece of that story

11:52

He was so nice to me inviting me out I Just couldn't post the unboxing video.

11:58

I did of going through his luggage Keith's Foskey's luggage right here.

12:04

Let's see. What's inside the size of these pantaloons. It was so nice I couldn't post it.

12:10

So the word pantaloon just a funny word. It's a great word. I love that I love good words, you know, and I don't know if you have the picture available

12:19

Keith But you did post a picture that Aaron being there you you got to meet a real live

12:29

Mermaid I did. Yeah, and What a week I meant to download that and share that but If you if you get that ready,

12:40

I'm gonna I'm gonna share something else first You had both of us on your program this week and So if you if folks want to go to Your Calvinist with Keith Foskey is the is the podcast you can

12:57

You definitely want to find the YouTube. What is the YouTube channel? Is it Keith Foskey? Or is it easiest way to find me is just to type in your

13:04

Calvinist like like I'm your I'm your huckleberry I'm your Calvinist and Anywhere you are it'll find me whether it's

13:11

Twitter Facebook or you can just go to Keith Foskey comm and it'll it'll link you to Everything.

13:17

Okay. So this was this is a clip and and I can't get blamed for this because I pulled this from your channel so This is what ended up happening.

13:27

This is what happened this this past week when we were recording. So this this really happened

13:34

Some of the audience are going 2001. I wasn't even born then. Yeah, I get it. Thanks We have 20 year olds listening to this

13:41

Listening to three old men. Oh pine about independent fundamentalist Baptists. This is a happening

13:47

Friday night It's the only thing they're watching on their TV If you are 20 years old or younger, please leave a comment

14:15

So that was pretty funny you're asking homeschoolers if they're homeschooled against their will to please blink three times as they're

14:26

And a lot of people have messaged me I'm under 20 and I watch your show and I was honored to know that I'm reaching the next generation

14:35

Bunch of Section of that video that video has a just real quick This only take a second.

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I already posted that little video he just showed has Has been seen let's see 4 ,000 times and it's got 41 comments and most of the comments are people saying they've seen it

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So that makes me that pleases me that my minions are out there and they're under the age of 20

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Well, this comment may please you more that came in biblical Baptist says whenever I'm having a bad day

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I watch a Keith Foskey video and everything's okay. That's my man right there

15:19

Thankful so did you did you find the picture of you in the I'm trying to figure out how to put it up I'm right here where it says present present slides

15:30

Not slides go to present and then do Window it'll go to so you do share screen and then window and then share that He's really good at technology folks, don't worry

15:50

Hold on and then we're gonna we'll let you guys explain this picture and maybe even who this mermaid is that you you captured outside of Water, it was not a capture.

16:02

She came willingly It was a it was what it was catching released Now it won't it won't it's it's giving me a hard time, bro

16:15

Okay, can I send it? Can I just drop it over to you and it to me and I'll put it up over to me

16:21

I will so I thought I was a professional but You you you have shown me that I I've yet to reach

16:31

True -to -true professionality. You do use StreamYard, right? I do but I don't know why

16:36

I've done that before but I think because I'm not the host it's giving me some limits No, cuz

16:43

I don't have that on. So, alright, so while I wait for that photo I don't know if I'm Aaron if you do you want to set up this photo?

16:52

Yeah, okay Well what I told the little there all these little ninjas, you know, we were we working on them this week

16:59

I just sent it to you in your messenger and so he was like how do we even introduce this because it it was a very sweet gesture by the individual that you will see in the photo and I just told him

17:10

I said Master Foskey and I were training under the pale moonlight doing our kata and As we were out there we saw something gleaming in the moonlight and we heard a rustle and We came face to face with a mythological creature and I don't remember everything

17:34

I said it was probably Ridiculous. I got the kids all hyped up and I said and we said will you come back and will you meet our students?

17:44

And so we sent the kids out into the back looking for some some unspecified creature and they went rushing out and they

17:53

I'm not sure if you found the Picture yet or not that you did. Yep, and they found a mermaid a real -life mermaid

18:00

Fenn from Looking -glass Falls and the kids loved it Yep, kids loved it and and had a blast and she she did all the stuff that mermaids do, you know

18:13

Blow bubbles and sing some songs, you know, everyone knows this this is what mermaids do I mean this song the song that she sings before she drowns you that was not this kind of song

18:24

Siren song, that's right but This is my this is my lovely wife

18:31

Johanna she is a professional mermaid and as a way of saying thank you for just being fantastic hosts this week

18:40

She offered she's a hey if the little girls and some of the little boys would like this we can do it and And she did it and it was a lot of fun

18:48

But he posted this picture on Twitter and you can tell him why you did that Oh because there's a big thing right now about whether or not mythological creatures actually exist and there's the haunted

19:00

Cosmo haunted cosmos bros are Trying to convince everybody that Bigfoot is a fairy and not like that Like he likes other male

19:09

Bigfoots, but like he's a fairy that's um, you know, like You'll find out in the comments, yeah but Anyway, they got all these weird views of stuff and and that was me saying to them.

19:26

Hey, I found a real mermaid. So All right, so let's get into our topic and I know

19:32

Aaron you you got some birthday stuff to do So yeah, I know you got a drop early I don't know if I might actually be able to stick around we're trying to work it out so that I don't have to jet but We'll see.

19:43

They may want me to leave before it's too too far gone No, I do I do see an advantage we could do here.

19:48

We might be able to do something Others have not been able to see here Keith if I add this picture and we can see more of your studio there behind Aaron Hey, I can do a studio tour real quick.

20:00

Hold on These are the three. Oh you took it away These are the three go back.

20:06

These are the three Star Wars posters. That's that's that's new. Hope this is Empire and this is

20:14

Revenge of the Jedi which was the real name before it became Return of the Jedi right there

20:20

That's the original trilogy right there Wow So let's get into your sermon prep

20:30

Sermon prep, right? You're you're preaching through mark 16, right? I'm preaching through the gospel of mark and I'm about to start the 16th chapter.

20:40

Yes. See so this is sermon prep Well, that makes sense this this is a you know for folks who don't know the ending of the gospel mark, there is a lot of debate discussion

20:58

That this is so if you if you have a Bible open take a look mark chapter 16,

21:04

I'm gonna read verse 8 and this is where there are some who believe that the gospel of mark in its original ended here and it's it says and They went out and fled from the tomb

21:18

For for trembling and astonishment had gripped them and they said nothing to any anyone and were afraid

21:26

That's a strange way to end a gospel No If that ended there, there's there's no nothing about the the

21:37

Great Commission there. There's nothing about You know the you know

21:43

Christ saying to You know Christ speaking to them nothing about his resurrection it just ends where they're afraid

21:52

And so this was son Keith you wanted to talk about son that you know textual criticism is something

21:58

I I like to to talk about here as well. It's I think it's helpful for folks to understand it And so I want to open up the floor first to you to Just start, you know to share what your thoughts are with it what you want

22:12

What you think would be important for folks to know And then I do want to at least explain what textual criticism is if you don't so I know

22:21

I would I if you don't mind, I'd like to kind of give a Prelude to the conversation as to just talking about why this is even part of the conversation and it sort of it came to It came up just this week a friend of mine who

22:37

I love very much. He's actually a fellow martial artist coincidentally he posted a picture of a

22:45

Bible it was an NIV and I don't know. I don't remember the verse that he was in But it was a verse that skipped a verse where it went from like 21 to 23

22:56

And he posted a picture of the NIV Bible and he said see this is why

23:02

I believe all the other Translations are heretical and they're all

23:07

Corrupted and this is why we should only be using the King James Bible. And so this

23:15

Conversation is more than just is the longer ending of Mark and we'll talk about what that means in a moment But is the longer ending of Mark the right?

23:24

Ending but it really gets down to the question of the authenticity and the reliability of the text

23:32

Because when someone notices in their Bible if they're using an NIV or ESV If they notice in their

23:39

Bible, there's a verse that jumps a verse goes from 21 to 23 or whatever. They will say

23:45

Why is that the case? Why doesn't it go from 21 to 22? Well, the reason for that is because that particular verse in that particular

23:54

Translation that the translators have determined based upon something called textual criticism that that particular verse does not belong

24:02

In the actual text most of them will put it in the footnotes The ESV will include it in the footnotes, but that particular verse is not found in some of the

24:16

Manuscripts that we have and we have a lot of Greek New Testament manuscripts

24:21

And we also have other translations that were very early. There's Coptic there is

24:27

Latin old and the The Vulgate Latin which is later

24:34

And so there are different forms of these texts and some of these texts do not exist in the oldest manuscripts that we have

24:43

So that's why those are not in some of the newer translations And so it brings up the question of well who's right is the

24:52

King James, right is the NIV, right? Who are these translators to think that they can just come along and take out a verse and why if they took out a verse?

25:01

Why would they just not number verse 22 as verse 22? And and so there's a lot of questions that come with this and and I know

25:09

I don't want to waste everyone's time because I Imagine your audience probably, you know knows a lot about these things

25:14

I don't want to just sit here and go over all the basics But the reality is if you know nothing of this subject

25:22

It's easy to become confused and it's easy for people who are trying to push an agenda particularly for one

25:28

Translation whether it be for the King James or whatever. It's easy for them to push a lot of Scariness on you because the first thing they're going to say is look this has been corrupted and we hear the word corruption

25:40

Along with the word Bible that becomes frightening because nobody wants to be carrying around a corrupted

25:47

Bible And so that's the issue at hand and I hope that wasn't too much information

25:54

I don't know if you want me to keep going or if you want you if you want Yeah Let me because some people

25:59

I I know that when I was teaching a Wednesday night in church We had people who freaked out because of the fact that They had you know, they

26:12

I mentioned about a textual variant and The person freaked out saying like because he was a

26:20

KGB person. He wasn't KJV only because he was in a church that used ESV.

26:25

So he still went to church there, but he he definitely freaked out at the thought that there could be question when it comes to Mistakes in in the copies.

26:40

So I mean at least let me explain what we talked about textual criticism that textual

26:45

Criticism is is a science we use to try to get back to the original of what the Bible says and we have to recognize that people as they make copies if you made a copy of the

26:57

Bible and if you Doubt that you could do this. Try it sometime Make a copy of the entire

27:02

Bible by hand Write it all actually a lot of people who do that. Interestingly enough.

27:08

You can search it online There are lots of people who've done it nowadays yeah, and Mistakes happen you skip a line you

27:16

You know things like this happen and and we call those variances and so Hopefully by the end of the show that won't concern you because we'll explain all that if you really need

27:28

I will say that if You get my book. What do we believe? Chapter two deals with this subject.

27:34

Okay, the reliability of Scripture. Can we trust the Bible that we have? I'm gonna argue the answer to that question is yes

27:43

In case you're wondering but within that there's two main passages That probably come under the most criticism

27:52

When we look at this one would be the ending of Mark 16 and the second would be in in John Oh, I forgot offhand.

28:01

I think John 7 but the the woman caught in adultery When you look at the woman caught in adultery, we end up finding that passage moves around in some manuscripts

28:12

And so some people do not think that is original The others is

28:18

Mark 16. There's a lot of discussion here. So Keith what is it about Mark 16 that causes people to question whether verses 9 to 20?

28:29

Belong in were they you know that they some people will say they're not written factually John MacArthur When he was preaching through Mark said that 9 through 20 does not belong in the

28:41

Bible Yeah, no, he was he was pretty firm on that I was very I don't wanna say surprised

28:47

But I mean he he kind of came down because he had preached through mark It was the last book when he finished that sermon people stood up and applauded because he had finished

28:55

Preaching every verse of the New Testament. The last book he did was mark and when he finished that sermon

29:01

It's just a funny sermon to applaud because really the sermon was how these last 12 verses or whatever don't belong in the text and it was

29:12

A Funny ending but yeah, it's like respect baby.

29:18

No. Um, so yeah the the issue is similar to how you talked about the

29:25

Story the woman caught in adultery which is called the pericope adultery the three the three major textual variants that most people want to debate are the

29:32

Kami Ohanian, which is first John 5 7 the pericope adultery, which is the This woman caught in adultery and then the longer what's sometimes referred to as the longer ending of mark

29:42

And the reason why it's called the longer ending is because in the textual data that we have there are actually three endings

29:49

There are some manuscripts that end at verse 8, which is what you said earlier You read verse 8 there is a there is a shorter ending that comes after verse 8 that has just a few

29:59

And for a little bit of information, it's a very it's a very Minority subset of texts and then there's the longer ending which does exist in most of the manuscripts

30:10

Most of the manuscripts do include the longer ending But most of the manuscripts exist after a thousand years after they were written.

30:18

We were talking about the second millennium Manuscripts, which is most of Marx manuscripts

30:23

So when we talk about the number of manuscripts that has it if you're going purely on the counting of noses

30:29

Which is this many manuscripts has it versus as many manuscripts don't the longer ending wins

30:35

Because you're talking about pure numbers. That's what's called the majority view if you and and and the majority view is

30:43

It's a perspective you you're familiar with this Andrew that there's a majority text view, right? Like that we're gonna take whatever whatever the majority has

30:51

But that's not really the way textual Data should be interpreted at least that's not the way most people think textual data should be interpreted not just by the majority but rather Manuscripts are weighted based upon they're dating how old they are

31:05

They're met they're they're weighted based upon the type of text that is used whether it is called an unsealed

31:12

Text or a minuscule text an unsealed text means it's all capital letters. No No punctuation and no spacing.

31:19

Those are unsealed texts and the unsealed texts are the first couple hundred years

31:27

Minuscule later referred to as the cursives they came later And so most of the manuscripts of mark are minuscule.

31:34

Most of them are much later so when we're looking at the earliest manuscripts the unsealed manuscripts the longer ending is not in those and the next bigger issue is

31:46

It's not It's not consistent. There's no consistent ending among them

31:53

Some have the short ending some have some end at verse 8 some don't have the longer ending until later and so it's it becomes an issue of what did the original say and that's the that's the question and And that's an important point is when we do textual criticism

32:08

There's a couple things we look at as you mentioned first is how old is it?

32:14

Right. Why was that important for folks to understand you mentioned the age the closer it is to the original the less likely

32:22

Not guaranteed, but the less likely that someone made copying mistakes every time it gets copied

32:28

There's a chance of someone making a mistake if you have an older Manuscript it is more likely and I'm being specific with using the word likely that it has that it's closer to the original the reason

32:41

I say that is you might have a a manuscript that was copied from a

32:50

From the from the autographs, but it wasn't copied until a thousand AD and even though it's a thousand years after If that was only one

33:00

Only only one Copy that was done. Then it's likely that that will be

33:07

That's gonna be better Okay, so the we don't unfortunately have a way of being able to say, okay, we we're gonna be able to just mark off Okay, this is how many you know, this this has been

33:23

You know copied this many times it'd be nice but we don't have that and so we use the

33:28

H And so the other thing is as You know

33:35

Keith mentioned is the number of manuscripts the majority of manuscripts 95 to 99 percent of the manuscripts of mark

33:43

Have what is referred to as the traditional ending Okay, or the would

33:50

Keith mentioned that the majority ending So the number of manuscripts that have the same reading is helpful but now we have a dilemma with this because the as I just said 90 to 95 to 99 percent have a traditional longer ending but the oldest ones have

34:12

Do not have that ending okay, some of the the the two major Texts that we have is is the codex satykanis and the codex

34:24

Vaticanus those are the two that we have that are much older.

34:30

They do not have that reading and so but there there is one thing that We recognize with it is there's four or five different endings.

34:43

Yeah, and That's what makes people's really look to say, okay Why were there all the differences?

34:50

Okay, so you've weren't you have a couple things like someone might have written Copy made a copy of Matthew 16.

34:57

Oh, I forgot. I stopped at verse 9 Maybe maybe because it ends in this abrupt way saying that they were afraid and the person got afraid to write anymore

35:07

Just ran away. I don't know. I Can't I can't copy anymore and then you had would have something where you'd have a manuscript that someone left something out and Those that would hold to a traditional ending which would say something like that happened right that they just stopped short

35:32

The those that would you know, but the thing that I look at is I look at there's four or five different endings to it and Because of that I kind of think

35:41

Keith that right there says that there was differences That people had in an ending

35:50

There's there's some that continue And include verse from 9 to 20.

35:56

There's some that stop at verse 14. There's There's ones that have different readings

36:03

There's some that we only see in the Latin We don't see it in the

36:09

Greek Where did they get it? We don't know Right, did they copy it from early early

36:15

Greek? So I can jump in here real quick. You want to finish that thought Andrew? Yeah Well, no,

36:21

I don't that pretty much was captures it Yeah So I I think this is really important for everyone to consider whether you've studied this before or not

36:28

This is super super important to consider for a couple reasons If you are if you believe in the sufficiency of the scripture you believe in the supremacy of the scripture you believe in God Communicating his word to us and no jot or tittle is gonna pass away

36:44

You believe all of that, but you don't know about these differences You know that there are differences in the translations

36:50

But you kind of just assume that that's just because you know It's just syntax and things like that. They decide to me like the

36:55

LS of LSB The legacy Bible that just came out They put in Yahweh instead of having the capital

37:01

L or D and you're like, okay It's just little things like that and you mean you come upon or or maybe not you but somebody that you're discipling a young Christian comes upon these these textual variants and verses are missing or the

37:13

The translation is it could not have meant the same thing like these two verses and two different translations

37:20

There's no way on earth. Those are anywhere similar those types of things can really shake you

37:26

They grab you by the throat and and you don't know what to do with them

37:31

And so being armed with this for information first for yourself and secondarily for the people with whom You are discipling and you're working with and counseling

37:39

This is very very important because at some point it's gonna come up and if we don't provide them the answers that the

37:47

Logical accurate truth of the situation that can really shake some people and I'll tell you what I honestly believe some of the and I'm just gonna put it out there

37:57

I'm not a KJV only guy and I believe and I love it. I love the Shakespearean language. Okay, I love sometimes

38:03

I wish we still spoke that way I'm all about the KJV from that perspective.

38:08

It's a beautiful translation of the scriptures but I think a lot of the the adherence the the some people have gone so far to say that the

38:19

That you know, the KJV is basically Inspired to a large degree is is from the fact that they don't know what to do with the variants

38:27

They don't want to allow themselves to think that somehow man messed up God's Word And so they swung so far to the opposite extreme to make themself

38:37

Feel confident that they have God's Word in their hands that they created a false doctrine in order to do so So we really need to understand that this just really happens when people find out about it

38:47

And we really need to be able to have the answers to address it so that we can have confidence in God's Word without going to a ridiculous extreme

38:55

Yeah, and that's why I think it is important to have these discussions Because well here let me put up them as a comment

39:03

Brewster is right As much as I want to agree with you

39:12

It's very hard for me to just Brewster is right as an unbeliever a little discrepancy put me off easily now as a

39:27

Regenerate I Abide by the church and God's Word isn't there a true.

39:33

Oh, sorry truth. God's Word isn't enduring. So and And I do, you know,

39:39

I think that that's the thing is that like I said with this gentleman at church He freaked out when I talked about variances

39:47

Mm -hmm, and he it it really shook his faith and we don't want that. So before this episode is over we will

39:55

I Will make sure that we cover the issue of whether we can trust our

40:00

Bible. Mm -hmm. Okay, because we absolutely can Let me put up one of the comments here there was someone gave a quote

40:13

From Metzger. At least I thought I had saved it. Let's see. Where is that quote do to do to do?

40:23

I Didn't but here it is, okay Pastor Landon said it gives a quote from Bruce Metzger.

40:31

Who is this is Bruce Metzger is Someone who is very well known in this area of textual criticism

40:38

You know has contributed a ton to that He said quote the last 12 verses of the commonly received

40:46

Text of Mark are absent from the two oldest Greek manuscripts unquote and and that's what

40:52

I referred to Right those two manuscripts that we have. So those are the oldest ones

40:57

So the the part of the assumption is well if the oldest ones don't have them we see

41:04

Later manuscripts that have different versions that is what would lead many to the conclusion that These were probably not in the original now,

41:16

I you know If you've you've done some looking into this, I know you're preparing to have to deal with this as you preach through mark

41:25

What are some of the things you have have studied already? As we look at this whether they've been added or removed

41:34

And and when I'm saying it that way I'm saying it specifically because people do say that If you have someone you'll hear this as Heath were alluded to someone that's a

41:44

King James only and they see a verse missing and they say it's missing well the term missing is a loaded term

41:56

Because it insinuates That someone removes something or that it was supposed to be there you'll hear people talk about the missing books of the

42:05

Bible, you know, the ones that Catholics added to or the book of Enoch and By saying it's a missing book of the

42:13

Bible It interjects their conclusion that these were removed

42:19

It when the other side of the question would be were they added? Did someone add this to the scripture?

42:28

so We know that mark in his original Is that's the autograph that was without error we know that people make mistakes in copying and They can add things or accidentally remove things.

42:44

We've seen that I don't believe in the doctrine or preservation and Make the statement that Andrew just made

42:50

Yes, really important thing to recognize because I do believe in doctrine of person Preservation, which is that God?

42:59

Statements if you believe in that but yeah Well, that's that's where the issue arises and and what is often the accusation

43:08

Is that if you believe that these variants can make any type of?

43:15

change to the King James Bible than what you were saying is that And it is a

43:23

King James issue. I'm not gonna even skirt the issue It's it's it's those who hold to a either

43:29

King James or a TR priority and that's a whole other conversation That means the next year. Yeah, that's what

43:35

I was just gonna say Texas Receptus Texas Receptus and they will say that that particular Greek is the proper right

43:43

Greek that is what the Bible should be based on and Therefore that's what the text is and that's what's been preserved and one of the arguments it's often made

43:54

Is the argument well, if you don't believe it's preserved in the

43:59

TR If you don't believe it's preserved in the KJV then where is it? Right and and I I at least

44:08

Understand the question that's being asked and I understand the heart behind the question

44:14

I don't think everybody who asks that is is asking so in an angry way or in any way to just simply one up in a

44:22

Debate but rather they're legitimately asking the question Well, if it's not preserved in the

44:27

TR if it's not preserved in the King James, then where is it? And how do we know and how do we know where it is?

44:34

and this does Raise an issue for what I would say is my side I take the position of what's known as the eclectic text, which means that rather than holding to one particular

44:48

Manuscript and saying this manuscript and in the TR isn't a manuscript by the way the TR is a published printed copy of Multiple manuscripts which were edited down to what became known as the

44:59

Texas Receptus and it was based upon the work of Desiderius Erasmus So it's not a manuscript.

45:05

The TR is not a manuscript. It is a published Greek edition of About a dozen or so manuscripts that were available at the time

45:14

We have now Thousands of manuscripts that are available now. I would say that the the

45:19

Word of God is contained within them and when we come to any text where there is a question about its

45:29

Authenticity then we have to look at that text alone and look at its history And that's what we're doing right now with the longer ending of Mark.

45:36

We're looking at its authenticity Not the Kamiohaniam not the Percopaea adultery.

45:42

We're not looking at these other ones We're not looking at specific texts, but we're looking at this one and we're going to ask the question

45:48

What is it about this text that makes it? possibly not part of the original and Andrews already mentioned what is part of the issue part of the issue is that it is not in Codex Sinaic Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus the two oldest manuscripts

46:09

But it isn't all the rest and so that's why my friend Dwayne Green who has a web page has a

46:14

YouTube page He's a nice guy. He's a pastor He believes the longer ending of Mark should be in there and he makes arguments for it.

46:22

And so in my preparation for Preaching I want to hear somebody who disagrees with me

46:28

I there's no use in only listening to people who agree with you all the time, right? It's good to to actually listen to people who may have a different perspective than you and Dwayne is a good

46:40

Godly, man, and he disagrees with me on this. I've been on his show He had me on his show to talk about textual variation and I thought that was very nice And so I I would say if you want to hear the best argument for the inclusion of Mark's Gospel then to go to his channel and listen to what he has to say here.

46:58

Here's my my issue with Mark's longer ending Is is an internal issue?

47:05

More so even than an external issue And that is that when you read the longer ending of Mark it tells some of the same stories that are in the other

47:14

Gospels but it does so almost like a patchwork quilt the the way that the the structure of the text

47:22

Does not seem to follow the same structure as the rest of Mark's Gospel and it seems to be patching together

47:29

Stories like Luke's Gospel with the two who were on the road to Emmaus The story of Mary being the first one to go to the tomb even the story of even the

47:38

Great Commission is somewhat Awkwardly worded where in the other Gospels it's go and baptize.

47:44

This says he who is baptized will be saved. He is not baptized Or just does not believe

47:49

Will not be saved or he believes in his baptized will be saved he does not believe will not be saved in this and that lends to the issue of The question of baptismal priority in Salvation and even baptismal regeneration most people who hold to baptismal regeneration

48:08

Cite the longer ending of Mark as one of their proof texts because it says he who believes and is baptized will be saved and so there there are several internal issues with the

48:20

Longer ending of Mark that have to be considered along with the external Issues of the fact that it doesn't exist and the two older manuscripts and is is

48:29

Differently worded as Andrew said in certain manuscripts yes, and so there's you know, you do have that uniqueness of The 16 words that don't appear anywhere else

48:42

Because this is thing folks when you write You have a certain style.

48:48

There's certain word choices you like to use every one of us does that and People who study linguistics can spot things that were written by different people

48:59

It's you know if if you listen to any pray any of the president speak when they're off the cuff and Then listen to their speeches and you go wait

49:12

That sounds different than the way the person normally talks Well, okay not for Trump because he probably doesn't follow any any speech writer

49:20

I don't think he would follow if someone gave him a speech. He still could have followed right but You know, you have different styles.

49:28

You can there's people that can tell for the president's that Different speech writers wrote it because of the language people like to use well writers of the scripture are the same way

49:39

That we can tell differences that you could read the book of John a gospel any of John's writings and then read

49:47

Paul's There's a total different style in the way they write let alone word usage

49:53

So the fact that there's these these words that we don't see anywhere else in Mark 16 of them

50:00

Just between verses 9 to 20 The fact that externally we see the differences now somebody

50:09

Pastor Landon asked because or mentioned to Aaron in the chat What you know because he mentioned that early church fathers preached it and this is something

50:17

I did want to address Because this is an argument for the longer writings. Okay, and It comes down to or that what's called the traditional

50:28

Ending it comes down to the fact that there are two early church fathers that we see that quote and The the longer version now,

50:41

I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna put quote in quotes by the way we do see that You know, there is a longer writing that we see from Jerome well that's much later

50:55

But the early church fathers become one where we go. Okay, let's let's examine that Now one of the things

51:02

I want to point out when we look at the early church fathers Much of the early church fathers are

51:11

Not looking at what the scripture says and copying it verbatim. What they're often doing is going from memory and so they're paraphrasing a lot of times and so as Keith mentioned

51:28

People who believe as I do I'll expose my view I think that I don't think that Mark wrote after verse 9.

51:36

I think that people that were copying it looked at that and it just ended so abruptly I think people felt they needed to They there's like something was missing and they had to put put it in and they grabbed things that they get from other passages of the

51:50

Gospels or possibly other Things that people knew verbally Okay that we talked about the woman caught in adultery

52:00

Many people believe that that was that they may have actually happened. It just wasn't written in the

52:06

Bible and and so there was People ended up knowing that account and that's how it worked its way in so the same could have happened here you could have things that were known and written and They're the early church fathers are

52:26

Quoting this but here's the thing to think about and for pastor Landon, you know be interesting

52:32

If he wants to come in and discuss it, but it could also be the reverse It may not be that the early church fathers were quoting the later writing of Mark, it could be that they were saying things and It worked its way into mark because that we know that though these came in later manuscripts

52:58

So it's really a question which one came first The assumption is that they were quoting from from the scripture that was written but it's possible that they were

53:12

Quoting things that were not in mark and it got attributed there Okay, so yeah take that into account

53:21

Yeah, and I want to if I could just just jump in on one one thought there before we move on cuz say we do have some good questions in the comments, but when we when we're when we're talking about What's in the the these last few verses that were that the verses that are in question?

53:41

There's nothing unique in them in the sense that the story seemed to be drawn from other places So when when when the early church fathers are quoting are they quoting from mark?

53:50

Are they quoting from this same tradition that that exists in? Luke of the of the two on the road to Emmaus or Mary being the first one going to the tomb

53:58

The things that are unique to mark that are really scary is like the drinking poison part Like that's the one thing that's like really and that's a huge question mark for me because I if that exists in there

54:08

That's that's a really weird thing to include because it's nowhere else in the Bible the picking up serpents thing

54:14

I think is attached to Paul's Issue on Malta when he when he was not and not made sick

54:21

And so there are a lot of things in the text that are found in other texts

54:27

And so my question would be on the early fathers thing is are the early fought because they're not quoted

54:33

They're not saying in Mark chapter 16 verse 15 because that didn't exist That type of citation did not exist in the early fathers now

54:41

They would say they would say in in Mark's Gospel or however, they would say that they could say that but they but chapter divisions and verse numbers do not exist until Well later a centuries later.

54:55

Yeah Earliest we see I think of chapters are seven eight hundred and verses are

55:05

Much later. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's like twelve hundred Before we get to this other than the passage from Luke that talks about Being able to tread on serpents and scorpions.

55:16

I guess the entire like snake handling Church Bases their entire little gig their little shtick on This passage here.

55:27

So that in Malta the story of an axe where yeah all that was bitten and not injured.

55:33

Yeah Yeah, so there's two there's two doctrines And and here's the thing that we'll get to later when we look at the reliability scripture, but just so you realize

55:47

When we look at the textural variances, there is not a single doctrine that is affected by any of them

55:54

Okay except for the guy who told James White to drink Remember the the guy in the debate that told him to drink the antifreeze.

56:03

Yeah that guy was a Cuckoo -for -cocoa puffs that guy was out at the lunch.

56:10

Well, he was holding up the Preston antifreeze There is there is one

56:15

There is one doctrine that could be affected in Revelation very early on there's a textual variant on the number six six six some say six one six

56:27

I mean that could throw off a whole bunch of left -behind books. But other than that Mm -hmm and and so but that's a good example because very early on Erneas who

56:40

I think was about 300 something AD. He mentions that variant and Mentions that the earlier manuscripts in his time referred to 666

56:52

So when we look at this ending of mark, you mentioned the the snakes

56:58

The other is the casting out of demons, so this is what we have here in verses 15 to 18

57:05

Supposedly Jesus speaking and he said to them go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation

57:11

Okay. Now that is different than we see in the ending of Matthew By the way, the ending of Matthew is not preaching the gospel to all creation.

57:19

It is making disciples now if you're gonna make a disciple the first thing you got to do to someone that's not saved is preach the gospel, but Verse 16

57:28

He who has believed and it and has been baptized shall be saved So this is becomes an issue where some people will look at this to say see your bat

57:39

You don't get saved until after baptized. So some people that hold to that rely on this

57:46

But they have other verses they could appeal to We could discuss that on a different show and why

57:51

I think that's not a good way of arguing It says then but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned

58:01

These signs will accompany those who believe in my name they will cast out demons

58:07

They will speak in new tongues They will pick up servants They will drink any deadly poison and it will not hurt them

58:17

They will lay hands on the sick and they will recover now what you see here is

58:24

The fact that much of when you look at the charismatic movement

58:30

Much of the charismatic movement relies on the these passages. I was moderating a debate on the charismatic movement and The guy who is arguing for the continuation of gifts

58:43

Basically said that it was heresy to deny that these were there

58:50

And that these were in the original and you know The person debating him made the point to say well

58:56

You obviously you think they're there because you need them because without them your whole view like doesn't stand

59:02

And this is the point that I'm trying to make with it when you look at the Bible we end up having with all these variances even a

59:13

Unregenerate man like Bart Ehrman who does work in this area when he wrote his New York Times bestseller

59:19

Called misquoting Jesus where he and I'll just say if you read anything for Bart Ehrman just recognize that in his scholarly work

59:26

He does a good job He he's accurate for the most part when he writes for the masses what he does is take things that are true and Scholarly and then assigns things.

59:40

They're completely made up But people can look at some of the scholarly work and say oh see that's true

59:46

And then they assume the rest of it's true when he's completely making it up And so but here's someone who is trying to disprove that we have the

59:54

Bible his whole argument is we don't know what the Bible originally said what it originally meant and Yet in the paperback edition of his book

01:00:04

It became a New York Times bestseller They the publisher wanted to make money off it

01:00:10

So they did a print a paperback version and they asked him to write an epilogue and he made a mistake in the epilogue and In the first printing and they did a second printing very quickly and got rid of this

01:00:22

But in the first printing in the epilogue Bart Ehrman admitted that with all of the textual variances we have

01:00:29

They do not affect a single Christian doctrine so if you have an entire doctrine

01:00:40

That you can only base it on this ending of Mark Then that becomes suspect

01:00:51

Yep, and And I think that the reason so many people want this in there is because there are things in this passage that a lot of different people

01:01:00

Hold to and they they need this in here Okay.

01:01:05

What are some of those things? Well, I already mentioned the idea of whether you can lose your salvation some will are critical for that But they don't only need this passage for that But you do have the idea that we as believers today could cast out demons

01:01:21

There's no other passage that teaches that That we today can speak in tongues

01:01:29

There's scripture that would argue against that but there's nothing that says that we would do it today except for this verse and that's why they

01:01:40

They would hold to it So the other would be as was mentioned picking up servants the serpents

01:01:48

And then the idea of drinking deadly poison Also the healing of sick the healing of the sick as being possible today

01:01:58

So you have all of these different things. So not only do you have 16 brand new words that mark doesn't use anywhere else

01:02:03

You have these several doctrines that aren't consistent anywhere else in scripture

01:02:10

And To me it seems like these were things that maybe it was things that was being preached by people

01:02:17

Maybe it was something they knew verbally. Maybe it was something someone wrote elsewhere and they made their way into the gospel and so What are you gonna do?

01:02:34

I'll tell you what he's gonna do. I'm about to turn He's leaving. No, I got it. I got to fix something just one second

01:02:40

So I'm he's gonna he's gonna fix a poster behind him, right?

01:02:46

Well while he does another one while he does that let me bring in now now folks We have not had for a long time.

01:02:54

This is a guest who's a regular Has been a regular We haven't seen him in a long time.

01:03:00

We referred to him just as the chicken man, and maybe he'll show us why But here is

01:03:06

John Who we refer to as chicken man, because well, he usually is taking care of his chickens this time of year

01:03:15

And there they are. So he always likes to show off his chickens But he comes in with some questions.

01:03:22

We usually you know today has his Let's see. If I shut this off. We could see what he's just coming in as Handling chickens not snakes.

01:03:32

That's his name this today but You have questions for us or comments, you know, yeah, hey

01:03:40

Andrew so When I was done my laptop I was looking at the inner linear of Mark the final chapter there and I noticed that for The Greek there was nothing at all.

01:03:58

There was no Greek at all when it came to like a final verse So was that as a result because of like there's only the

01:04:06

Vulgate Translation and no Greek or is it just maybe

01:04:12

I didn't have the right inner linear Yeah Do you know which inner linear you used because I mean, there's there's lots of Greek manuscripts that have it but If you were gonna say something, okay, it was really weird

01:04:24

It was the inner linear for the LSB. So maybe maybe that one just doesn't

01:04:30

Have it, I don't know I'm gonna go look it up, but yeah, that's Yeah what you're gonna find

01:04:38

I don't know can you hear me chicken man, yes, okay, okay I can Good.

01:04:44

What you're gonna find is your inner linear is going to be based on a particular Particular Greek Edition so right now like the the the na -27 na -28.

01:04:58

Those are the that's the Nestle Elan Edition of the Greek and and so when you when you when you're looking at your inner linear, especially

01:05:06

LSB it's probably based on that or the United Bible Society a version if you had a

01:05:13

Inner linear that was based on the textus receptus Then it would have it in it And so if you want to if you want to find that in the

01:05:22

Greek I would recommend going to an online resource like Bible hub or something like that which allows you to look at different manuscript or different Printed editions and see which printed edition has it and I'm pretty sure the

01:05:36

TR will have it and and and perhaps some others But it's not going to be in the Nestle Elan 28th edition, which is probably what yours is based on.

01:05:44

Okay? Yeah, that's good to know Also, I don't see you know, you're a

01:05:49

Star Wars fan. I also got Awesome Love it.

01:05:56

All right guys. Thanks Yeah, you guys with all your pop culture so I was

01:06:03

I was talking to a couple folks today Keith I know this is gonna you're gonna hang your head in shame to saying, you know me when

01:06:10

I say this but I Love you the so we're talking a couple of my friends who would who love to make fun of the fact that I'm pop culture illiterate and this other person who didn't realize how pop culture illiterate

01:06:30

I am and we got into a discussion of the Beatles and The guy was surprised

01:06:36

I could only name two of the four Beatles. I Did not know more than that Can you hear me yeah,

01:06:43

I know John Mark Paul and Ringo not John Mark Mark was older than the

01:06:52

Beatles George John's George Paul and Ringo Such a preacher boy in the gospel of John Mark Yeah, well you knew

01:07:06

John Lennon and I Wasn't sure but I didn't know the last name

01:07:12

I just said a guy named Ringo and that was about as far as I could get and then they mentioned the other two Names and I was like, oh

01:07:17

I've heard of them, but I didn't know they were with the Beatles So I was that just that clueless and that's why we love you

01:07:25

Yeah, that's probably not why but that's okay It's one of the few areas where I know

01:07:30

I always have the upper hand on you. Oh, that is true and especially Keith Keith knows a thing or two.

01:07:37

I'm guessing about movies if anyone looks at his background there Jurassic Park Raiders of the

01:07:42

Lost Ark Does have home alone in the wrong spot home alone needs a more prominent location

01:07:47

Well when I switch off first blood can I record with two people like when my friend Richard comes? Yeah, it's normally not side -by -side.

01:07:54

We turn this around and he's on the other side. So it's behind me There's a reason why there's posters all the way around because this is a 360 degree studio.

01:08:03

Yeah, okay My costumes over there, they don't ever get in the frame Now we all want to see those costumes

01:08:10

Just have to be invited. You have to be like somebody I might be or know who had the privilege of the magic

01:08:22

My Presbyterian outfit hangs just feet from us. I wanted to wear it. I wanted to wear the sweater, but that's so bad

01:08:29

Well, I do think I do think that the real reason that Keith invited you out is really not because of your martial arts prowess

01:08:40

Sight unseen My wife made the greatest joke

01:08:46

She said what happens if he shows up to teach nunchucks and he doesn't know how to use Said that would make it awesome

01:08:54

If he comes in and just wait That would have been the best

01:08:59

I'd have been worth it all Here's the question in preparation for that possibility were you recording

01:09:11

I've recorded a lot. Yeah, I would I would believe it. He records a lot Yes, just to make sure

01:09:17

Casey smacks himself in the head. Everything is content with this man. Yes So what man stuff my wife will say to me sometimes don't put this on Twitter But baby what you just said was awesome, but it's tick -tock.

01:09:31

Okay Yeah, so, you know the thing though is you know, if if Aaron was to knock himself out you're using his nunchucks in your class, there's there's one thing that wouldn't help him and Because it helps a lot of people but this wouldn't help

01:09:49

Aaron and that would be a good cup of coffee from squirrely Joe's coffee That would wake him up.

01:09:55

But in since he doesn't drink coffee He doesn't know the the beauty of what he could have in a fresh cup of coffee in the morning

01:10:03

No, yeah, but I'm sure that if you just opened a bag of squirrely Joe's coffee There Keith and just put it in under his nose.

01:10:11

He'd be like, oh that smells refreshing that smelling salts Wake him right up Tonight go ahead.

01:10:19

Go ahead. I was just somebody asked a question of what's on my shirt Yeah, and it says

01:10:24

I hope it was a blast for them because it was certainly a blast for me. This is my That's your line.

01:10:30

Yeah, my lines. Yeah, where can people buy that? From my store to Keith Foskey calm.

01:10:36

Yeah Keith Foskey calm so and get some squirrely Joe's coffee Coffee Eternity org slash coffee striving for attorney org

01:10:48

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SFE it stands for striving for eternity so you can only get 20 % off Also, they have the five pound bags in case you want to get for your church this morning

01:11:09

I had a nice let me see what it was. I had a a cup of wisdom because I needed some and so That was a dark roast.

01:11:18

That's what I really needed. But maybe I need some wisdom to James 1 5 says if a man lacks wisdom

01:11:25

God will give it to him Abundantly without criticism. Well, I needed that in the coffee this morning

01:11:32

So if you want to get a cup of squirrely Joe's coffee It is great cut great coffee and it you're are supporting a believer and his family.

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01:12:10

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01:12:19

You know, we we do have the case sometimes though where we saw the comment that Keith keeps people laughing.

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He's people awake Now the difference between Keith and Aaron is this Keith keeps you awake with his humor and Aaron well, he can sometimes maybe put you to sleep with his his preaching.

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01:13:41

Did Jesus drink coffee? What what do you think? I Don't want to make it funny. I really don't know how

01:13:47

I'm sorry. I'm so No, I want to I like them I like the answer the one person gave nobody did drink wine

01:13:54

Real wine. Yeah, you know, there was a Baptist right there. There's someone on Twitter that was

01:14:01

Basically saying if you didn't believe that that Jesus drank non -alcoholic wine

01:14:06

Who said that who's on Twitter? I saw someone on Twitter saying that that there's no way you can make an argument that Jesus drank real wine people are making that up and I was like Really it was one of those posts where it's like no matter how

01:14:21

I responded I knew You just come off as a jerk to someone like him. So I'm just like, you know what?

01:14:27

You go ahead and believe that Wow, so so there's a quote.

01:14:34

I put it up there that Aaron Brewster posted that I hope Because it certainly was a blast for me

01:14:47

Oh We were talking about the other day whether the was should go before or after certainly Because I say because it was certainly a blast for me

01:14:56

But he was saying it because it certainly was a blast for me and so the was it flowed better it flows

01:15:01

Yeah, so we're discussing the flow and that's how you thank you for saying sweet things.

01:15:06

That's very nice I appreciate the encouragement Somebody on the comments

01:15:14

My sense of humor Yeah, Melissa says sir Keith Foskey, sir.

01:15:19

I really appreciate your ministry and your funny videos. Love your sense of humor, brother She also says

01:15:27

I need one of those shirts Foskey calm I Was shamelessly plug he's talking about the squirrely

01:15:35

Joe's kids Let me tell you something every every time you buy something from my store It goes to feed hungry children mine and and all six of them

01:15:43

I have six children five still live at home and And one is serving the

01:15:49

United States Air Force right now So I I let one leave and he only left to go serve his country.

01:15:55

So there you go All right. So let's look at some of the comments that we had All right, so Kathy had said

01:16:03

Mormons tell us the Bible is corrupt What's a lot of stuff Mormons believe that God was once a man who lived on a planet that surrounded a star called

01:16:15

Kolob. I don't care what they think There's a lot of people that do say the

01:16:28

Bible's been corrupted So it depends on definition right because we've we accept the fact that there there are variations in the manuscript

01:16:36

But what does that mean? corruption tends to indicate the issue of intention the intention to change who

01:16:45

Jesus was the intention to change what God's Word says and the vast majority of manuscript variants are either unviable or They are unmeaning or meaningless.

01:16:57

They're either meaningless or unviable meaning they they they're not Possibly part of the original or the meaning that they change doesn't change any of the meaning like if you call him

01:17:07

Christ Jesus Versus Jesus Christ, that's a textual variant But it doesn't change the meaning or if you say the

01:17:13

Lord Jesus Christ versus Christ Jesus the Lord That's a textual variant, but it doesn't change the meaning very it that the vast and we're talking 99 .9

01:17:22

% of variants are either meaningless or unviable meaning they were not ever possibly part of the original and The the the small percentage of those that are meaningful and Bible's for instance the longer ending of Mark can be considered

01:17:38

Something that has to be studied for its accuracy, but that does not mean that it was intentionally corrupted and corruption in in Insinuates intentionality and that's just not true

01:17:50

So I want to I want to deal with some of the things you said so we could break into dig into it more Okay, because this is an important topic.

01:17:58

I'm sorry if I opine I I get I get going I have my own show too, you know, yeah, no, no What Kathy actually posted a really good follow -up to what?

01:18:07

Was just said that last comment there. Okay. She says yes. I know that They there are way.

01:18:14

I'm sorry. Yes I know they are way out there and yet we know how we need to know how to answer

01:18:20

I don't believe the Bible is corrupt. Well, it again.

01:18:25

It depends how you define corrupt. We the variances are a corruption Okay That's we don't want to ignore that because that's a fact but now the question is

01:18:39

Is that corruption affecting anything so Heath mentioned two words

01:18:46

Viable and meaningful Okay Those are two very important things for us to look at I'm trying to pull up if I can

01:19:00

I thought I had a picture but I'll just take it out of some out of a PowerPoint Getting a little too cozy in there

01:19:10

No, we're good we're good I Tell people that my personal bubble you have to stab me with a knife to get through it.

01:19:17

So, uh, yeah, I'm fine I just I just hate the fact that I'm like six inches in front of him.

01:19:22

So because of force perspective I look so much bigger. I am that much bigger, but I'm looking even more bigger

01:19:29

I'm like in the in the Lord of the Rings when they put you know In McClellan next to the the guy playing the

01:19:37

Hobbit And forced perspective makes me look bigger. By the way, that's that's a movie

01:19:42

Andrew Lord of the Rings. Yeah, I Read the book

01:19:48

Sorry, what's a book? Yeah Let me share this. This is from my book on what do they what do we believe chapter 2?

01:19:58

This pie chart now, I'm gonna give you this pie chart is using Numbers that are the worst case for us

01:20:07

Christians, okay the first category 75 % of the variances that we see in the in the

01:20:15

New Testament are Spelling errors and punctuation now punctuation. I Reject those immediately because there was no punctuation

01:20:25

Right, but they want to include that so it looks like there's more Variances because they can go look at all these variances.

01:20:33

There's so many of them Hey, listen, anyone who doesn't use an Oxford comma is corrupting it.

01:20:39

They're doing it on purpose because they're wicked people I'm sorry said throw that in there. I have my standards

01:20:46

Well word crime leaving out the Oxford comma So we we see this 75 % are spelling errors punctuation, can we get back to the original?

01:20:56

Yes, when when Keith is talking about viability it means Can we get back to the original or not?

01:21:03

Meaningful is did the meaning of the text change? so when we look at this 75 % are spelling errors 11 % are not meaningful.

01:21:17

In other words, the meaning of the text does not change at all It's something that we end up looking at and we go.

01:21:24

Okay, we can we could see what was meant there Maybe maybe Lord Jesus Christ Jesus Christ Lord Christ Those are three different variant readings and yet the meaning doesn't change at all

01:21:37

Okay You have some that are 5 % that are meaningful and viable meaningful and means that the meaning does change

01:21:46

But viability means we can get back to the original And so if we can get back to the original we're not concerned about it.

01:21:53

So the only area we're concerned with is this 1 % which is meaningful and viable in other words the meaning changes

01:22:03

But we can get back to the origin. We can't get back to the original So this is a concern because we don't know what it originally said and the meaning changes now in um in uh

01:22:17

The book the misquoting Jesus Bart Ehrman had um

01:22:24

Bart Ehrman said that you know, he gave his strongest argument for that one percent

01:22:30

Okay, so I want you all to hold on to your seats Keith I know this is going to blow you away

01:22:35

But here if you haven't read Bart Ehrman's book, but here is the the best argument against the bible being reliable Because I know there's so many doctrines keith that you are just going to be wrecked when when

01:22:48

I explain this Because I mean Bart Ehrman just he just destroys all of our christian doctrine.

01:22:54

You ready already. I already feel wrecked yeah, here is here is the greatest evidence that we cannot know what the bible means because it's because of the area of this

01:23:04

One example, this is his best example. That's meaningful and viable There's some passages that teach jesus was a carpenter and others teach.

01:23:14

He was the son of a carpenter Well, I never thought about that, yeah

01:23:20

You ever think about what could be true, too? Well, I don't know. Yeah, I mean so There's not a single doctrine that's based upon the fact that jesus had to be a carpenter

01:23:31

Or that he was the son of a carpenter, right? So so this is what we mean when we say these don't affect anything by the way that one percent

01:23:40

Is actually in a class that I took with dan wallace because we have found so many more manuscripts and we're not finding someone that many more variant readings

01:23:51

That number is decreased he actually said that the realistic number we still use the one percent because it's gonna it's it's giving the the worst case scenario, but the

01:24:00

The the way that he would he said is it's actually one fifth of one percent

01:24:08

So now let's let me do some numbers for you and if you want this is all in my book, what do we believe? There's What they will do is say there's about 400 000 variances

01:24:20

Okay, that number actually is to be more honest now is really about 500 000 however

01:24:29

There's only about 138 000 greek words in the new testament And so when they they do this what they're saying is how do you how do you have more variances than words?

01:24:40

So what they're doing is comparing variant readings To the number of words when they make that argument

01:24:47

So anytime you have someone do that just know they're doing that It's it's a logical fallacy because they're not doing an apples to apples

01:24:54

Okay, they're talking number of words compared to variant to the variant readings

01:25:00

Okay, so lord jesus lord christ jesus christ lord jesus christ

01:25:09

Christ jesus. Those are five different variant readings That only contain a few words

01:25:15

Okay, so if we actually look and I went through The the greek new testament looking at the apparatuses to look at how many how many words there are with variant readings

01:25:26

Complete variant readings And so when you look at it that way uh

01:25:32

You you end up finding about six thousand five hundred and seventy seven words That have variant readings out of the hundred the hundred and thirty eight thousand

01:25:41

Now remembering that if you want to go with one percent of that You're talking about 65 words out of 138 000 words

01:25:53

But if we want to use the more realistic number Okay you're taking not 65

01:26:02

But you're you're you're going to be taking one fifth of 65 Okay, so you're with 13 13 words out of 138 000

01:26:14

So so when you look at that and do the the math it is 0 .009

01:26:21

percent of the words In the greek manuscripts that we cannot get back to the original and the meaning changes

01:26:30

So that means that the bible is 99 .99 percent accurate I will put that number up to cnn any day of the week

01:26:39

Mm -hmm So we can rely and so so when people say oh it's been corrupted

01:26:47

Okay, there are variances We can agree Do they affect any doctrine?

01:26:54

No How accurate is it? Well, we're really only talking about a few, you know a dozen words

01:27:02

Have that have variant readings where we cannot get back to the original and the meaning changes That's not a lot

01:27:10

Keith anything you want to add to that? Well, I think again I just to reiterate something

01:27:16

I said earlier Is I agree with you when you when you say their variants are there therefore there is corruption but the the

01:27:23

Words have meaning and word also have insinuation Like like, you know, if if you say something

01:27:30

It can also have within it a built -in insinuation of you know

01:27:38

You know if you if you ask a man, you know, were you talking to my wife? Well, you know, there's an insinuation there that there was some kind of inappropriate talking right?

01:27:47

Like there's there's there's something insinuating What did you say to my wife, you know insinuates that you're not happy about it, right?

01:27:54

Uh, and and and that might not be a great example, but I think people get what i'm i'm i'm saying When someone says the bible's corrupted the mormon says the bible's corrupted they're insinuating intentional corruption

01:28:06

They're insinuating that and and you mentioned this earlier in the show. How do a lot of these variations arise?

01:28:13

Well, they arise through all kinds of copyist errors that happen over time, uh, the copyist hears something wrong you can often tell if a word

01:28:23

Is if if the scribe is writing something he's listening to versus he's writing something that he's reading

01:28:30

Because if he's writing something that he's listening to he'll use letters that sound like other letters

01:28:36

And this is also how we determine what certain sounds came in How certain words sounded because we we see how certain scribes

01:28:45

Like spelled the words and you can see what letters he thinks that word is supposed to use but he's wrong

01:28:52

Because he's not looking at a manuscript, but he's doing he's he's he's he's copying from someone reading it

01:28:59

And when he's reading it, he's writing it according to the way He thinks it should be spelled right? Like i'm,

01:29:04

I remember which president was one of our one of our early presidents said Only a fool can't think of at least two ways to spell any word, right?

01:29:10

Like like there's got to be like like spelling is not a hard and fast science Like like you should be able to spell because we're just yeah.

01:29:17

Yeah. So the the same thing happens, right these corruptions happen

01:29:23

Primarily by accident now are there times where we can see? Intentional Corruption and this goes back to mark and that's why

01:29:31

I want to bring it up is because when we talk about mark the idea of Someone may have thought

01:29:39

Hey, this Ending is not satisfying It ends as one brother mentioned.

01:29:45

I think it was the pastor in the comments earlier. It ends with the word afraid We don't want a gospel to end afraid.

01:29:51

We want a triumphant ending gospel Plus if mark is the first gospel it also ends without jesus appearing to the disciples and so that's

01:30:02

Unsatisfying and so was the added ending of mark included because the ending was unsatisfactory

01:30:09

To later audiences. That's one of the arguments. That's one of the questions that has to rise is why?

01:30:16

And does that corruption mean that the person was trying to make jesus something that he's not? and so that's where That's where this idea of corruption has to be considered and if a mormon says to me

01:30:29

That the bible is corrupted then I'm I I will engage that question in much the same way we've talked tonight

01:30:37

But the biggest issue i'm going to address with the mormon is not whether or not the bible is corrupted But what do they do with their sin?

01:30:44

And that's the same thing I would do with a muslim or the same thing I would do with anyone else and I did this Recently, I had a muslim visit our church and we ended up talking for an hour and a half after the service

01:30:52

About his faith and my faith and the differences and he wanted to argue about the trinity and he wanted to argue about the corruptions

01:30:58

In the bible, he wanted to argue about king david and some of the issues of the old testament But at the end of the day,

01:31:04

I kept pushing him on this issue You are going to face god one day and you are going to face god in your sin

01:31:09

And what are you going to do with your sin? That's the that's that's how we address whether it's a mormon a muslim and I and I got and I didn't invent this

01:31:16

This is ray comfort ray comfort says, you know, you've got to take them back to the gospel You got to take them back to this and say what are you going to do with your sin?

01:31:24

What are you going to do on the day that you face your god and he tells you? That you have broken his law and you do not have a say a savior

01:31:31

And that's that's that doesn't mean the corruptions the bible corruptions aren't a big issue But if i'm talking to a mormon, that's where i'm gonna go

01:31:40

Because that's the more important issue. That's right. Because at the end of the day, that's the big I said it last sunday in my sermon

01:31:46

I said the one thing every man has to address in his life is how is a sinful man made right with a holy god

01:31:53

And if you don't have the right answer to that question, that's an eternal mistake Aaron, did he actually say that in between quotes from luther and Okay, i'm just saying

01:32:04

He did That was the first I think so.

01:32:09

Yeah, he only quoted luther once yes. Yeah, I told luther's story He just happened to come on luther sunday, okay and if you don't if you don't get the context of that you're going to have to go listen to the most recent episode of Your copiness podcast with keith foskey where aaron and I were on there and that's explained

01:32:26

So that was that was my way of luring you all in to go and check that that episode

01:32:32

If this beautiful face does not encourage you to come and stare at it for an hour and 20 minutes I'll tell you nothing.

01:32:38

Well, then andrew's beautiful face, you know, that's That's the very reason keith that I listened to you on audio podcast so I listen

01:32:53

Yeah, see and now I can say this Yeah, I can say this without fear because I know keith is far away from me right now

01:33:01

So I don't have to worry about him practicing his karate on me. Yeah, but he's gonna blame me He's gonna blame me for inviting him to come with me tonight

01:33:10

Yes, I am here because of aaron and he invited me so that we blame everything on aaron So let's let's get to some more of the questions before time is up um

01:33:20

Well, okay. We'll put this one up. Uh, fatima says brewster is right as oh wait, we already read this

01:33:25

I just wanted to read that first part. Yeah. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Yeah, I just just want to be get that clear Uh, no kathy kathy, uh says yes andrew.

01:33:33

I found your book very helpful when I studied the subject years ago So thank you for that. Fatima does say andrew truly, uh, truly the number cruncher, uh

01:33:42

Up to the point zero zero zero zero nine percent. He did that at strange fire Conference in philippines, too.

01:33:50

Haha So I didn't do this talk in the philippines. Uh, what she's referring to is

01:33:55

I did some number crunching with the number of miracles in the bible

01:34:01

And I looked through all the miracles in the bible to show Uh because the topic

01:34:06

I was given was a was basically the question of should we expect miracles today? And I made the case that when you look through the 4 000 years of biblical history

01:34:15

We only see human beings doing miracles at three time periods and all of them have one thing in common

01:34:21

The writing of scripture, which is what hebrews 2 says We should expect to see miracles and signs and wonders with the writing of scripture

01:34:30

And so with that We shouldn't expect to see miracles outside the time In fact the when we are outside of those three periods of time

01:34:39

You only see eight miracles done in four thousand years of biblical history

01:34:46

And for people to be saying we should see them all the time every day The scripture doesn't support an argument like that.

01:34:54

They were By definition a miracle does not happen every day. It doesn't happen normative

01:34:59

It's not regular um So that was the number crunching she was referring to Were you going to say anything about that keith?

01:35:07

No, I I agree with you. I mean I I have a lot of thoughts about the charismatic issue, but I will say this uh, those who those who claim uh divine healing

01:35:17

Uh, I have one question and this is live so I have to be careful. I want to There's no editing man.

01:35:23

There's no post. There's no post on this. Uh, i'll be i'll be kind but um i've never

01:35:29

I I I I've never seen a person who has lost a limb in battle

01:35:36

Had a a faith healer grow it back And that's a huge issue for me.

01:35:42

And this is my issue is this is they they I they so all these guys who want to say they're they're growing people's legs because they're they're one inch shorter like Todd white and all these guys who are doing these little things.

01:35:53

I'm a magician. He's a magician. That's actually not a joke We're both people who have done magic as illusions

01:36:00

One of the things I told I said you and Aaron were going to get along great and yeah, we've both been

01:36:06

A lot of people It is called mutual agreed upon deception.

01:36:14

It is not the same It is not a breach of the uh, ninth commandment.

01:36:19

So, uh, but uh the is True Yes, exactly

01:36:27

But the issue, you know, and this is why this is the question and and people are gonna get offended I hope they don't

01:36:32

I say why does god hate the military? Because and that's what I say makes a very good point because You know,

01:36:39

I I know many men who have lost lost limbs in battle I've never seen a faith healer be willing be able to put one of those limbs back to its position

01:36:47

And back to its original state. Is it this is does god just hate the military? Is that is that is that what it is or is it because these guys aren't really doing what they claim to be

01:36:56

Doing. Yeah, and and that's the one The recent one's not the leg lengthening, but the hand lengthening.

01:37:03

Oh, yeah. Do you see my video? I did my joke video Oh, did you where I responded he did that and I did this

01:37:10

Oh, yeah And uh, yeah, I did see your video I forgot that I saw your video

01:37:16

Yeah, where he's like he's like, oh look a hand is my arms lengthening and i'm like, yeah

01:37:21

Oh, oh, what's oh, it's magic I actually I actually have a uh,

01:37:29

I can't I don't do it because you need to have a long sleeve shirt for it to visually Catch the eye, but I actually do an illusion where I lengthen my arm

01:37:39

It's the easiest thing in the world and it always gets people. I'm like, there's a guy way back when Uh when tv was black and white you remember that right andrew?

01:37:47

Um where he actually would no, I remember the time before tv. What do you mean?

01:37:52

He would add it like feet to his body like he would like grow super big. Anyway, all of that to say

01:37:58

Um, so much of that stuff is just ridiculous that they have to celebrate an inch Of growth versus what you know, what was being said here about the fact that you know

01:38:07

Jesus was taking a withered hand and making it fully functional He was taking a blind man who now had the full ability to see and and what's amazing about that particular miracle

01:38:18

Not just get off on a rabbit trail But for a person who has never seen before to all of a sudden get sight and this has happened medically

01:38:25

Um, some medical procedures were done. They can now see Their brains can't make sense of what they're seeing because they've never had to see and interpret these images

01:38:35

So god not only healed the eye So that it could now see but he also did everything necessary for the brain now to understand

01:38:44

What he's seeing and be able to interpret it correctly And there's not a single person who even scratches the surface of anything like that who claims to be a faith healer and uh, one of my favorite actors the great

01:38:55

Uh val kilmer played in the film called at first sight where that was the very issue that gave him his sight back

01:39:01

But he couldn't interpret it with his mind and it didn't make sense to him what he was seeing. Yep What was the name of the film at first sight with Yeah, right, all right, so I love

01:39:14

I see mutually agreed upon deception So dory, I love her in here.

01:39:19

She says oh my goodness melissa made a great joke. I just have to say she said Todd white tells a lie grows another dress.

01:39:26

Yeah His nose his nose is lengthening His nose is lengthening from doreen and then melissa says every time todd white tells a lie

01:39:35

He grows another dreadlock Okay, I just saved that image That may be melissa i'm putting you on twitter

01:39:45

We're heading to twitter So, all right, so let's get to um

01:39:52

A question we have that's off topic Uh, and so keith, there's no no pressure on you to answer this, but it was a question that came up So we're going to try to answer brad george asked the questions.

01:40:03

Hey brothers Would you mind addressing this question? Would it be sinful or would it not be sinful for a christian to vote for trump this election?

01:40:14

While knowing his stance on abortion and lgbt Uh, so i'll go first and give you guys time to think about it my my response is this

01:40:24

First off you have to remember we're not voting for pastor. We're voting for president and The reality is

01:40:34

Whether you vote for trump or vote for biden both of them are unsaved ungodly men

01:40:43

That are gonna that are not looking to lead this country biblically Though trump is closer in line with that when we look at his stance on abortion, well

01:40:54

We have four years to compare trump did more for the pro -life movement

01:41:00

Than Any other president in history? now when we say history, we're really just talking about the period of the

01:41:08

You know since roe versus wade Okay, but since roe versus wade all the republicans that talked about doing something

01:41:15

Did nothing compared to what we saw trump do? All right. So trump had the strongest anti -abortion stance

01:41:23

So when we look at that We have that second Trump is the first president since all this dei stuff and it's actually die right diversity inclusion and You know really what we would probably call it, uh diversionally

01:41:41

And not inclusion, right? uh, but but The dei stuff that you hear that all this this class warfare or racial warfare and social justice and all this

01:41:54

Trump was the first one to call out that ert needed to stop being taught

01:42:01

And tried to put a stop to it All right, so that would put a stop to the lgbt if we can put a stop to this stuff

01:42:09

Is biden going to put a stop to it clearly not? So I would argue my case is and you know people want to argue you you got to vote your conscience

01:42:19

You got to vote for a third person That's that's your conscience. It's not mine. I'm not voting for the worst of two evils

01:42:26

I'm voting for the best candidate That can actually get elected And it's right now.

01:42:34

It's two people. Maybe you could argue three with rfk. I don't think he'll get enough votes and so The reality is that you have two people trump and biden

01:42:47

One that knows he's running for election and one Keith if you have not seen this this is going to make its way into one of your videos.

01:42:55

Have you seen biden? at the the d -day ceremony today

01:43:01

No, i'm, we've been busy. I haven't been able to see you. It's my birthday. We've been I've been caking this man.

01:43:10

Let me describe this video because I can do a verb. Yeah, this will make its way into your videos.

01:43:15

I'm sure okay Joe biden gets up on stage He shakes the hand of you know, another delegate and he walks over and they're they're making an announcement and he goes like he's going to sit down, but there's no chair and he just He goes he starts to sit down.

01:43:33

He's like looking behind him. It's one of two things Either he's going to sit down in a chair that doesn't exist

01:43:39

Or he needed to find a bathroom you go watch that video. It's one or the other I shared it on twitter and said when you gotta go you gotta go, you know, he has been known to Poop his pants

01:43:54

What they're doing to that poor man is so unkind it is it's it's elder abuse What was the guy's name who who posted that question?

01:44:03

Uh, that was i'll put it up again Uh brett, yeah brett,

01:44:09

I I can't really uh add too much to what andrew just said um

01:44:15

I I do i've heard the conscience argument. I understand I think why people do that And again, i'm not going to tell a person that They're wrong

01:44:27

I I am going to tell them Save yourself from some save yourself some headache and some time don't bother going

01:44:35

To cast your vote like I don't understand why exactly you're doing that It's it's it's this weird sense from what

01:44:44

I get. It's a weird sense of solidarity Like I have to feel like i'm doing my civic duty I've got to go and i've got to stand in the line and i've got to cast my vote

01:44:52

Knowing 100 full well that this candidate doesn't even have a chance. I don't understand that side of it

01:44:59

That's the piece like if you really don't think you can vote for the one of the two guys who's going to win Um, then just make your life a whole lot easier and don't go vote.

01:45:07

Um, So that that that's a dichotomy to me That's kind of weird like it makes me wonder What some of the underlying motivation is when they still put themselves through the torture of voting knowing that it's not going to matter

01:45:16

But I mean, I I do agree with what andrew said Why why me again me doubly? Um, I do agree with what andrew

01:45:24

I don't know where to look What andrew said, uh in regard to this because um when it all when it's all boiled down to it,

01:45:32

I We're voting for the person who's going to be basically, you know running our country He's going to be our representative there in the presidential degree

01:45:39

And I want the best person to do the job and I used to work for panera bread company. I hired people all the time um,

01:45:46

I would not have let my Children date any of the people I hired. I wouldn't have married any of the people

01:45:52

I hired I wouldn't have trusted me the people I hired to do that job with dog sitting. Okay But I hired them because I believe that they could do the job

01:46:01

Well, you know working at panera bread company and it's it's a very similar concept here. It's it's an identical concept here

01:46:08

We're choosing a man. We're hiring a man who is going to then um fill the office of the president

01:46:14

That's it It's my two cents All right, um

01:46:24

For folks on the audio the real what you just missed was Keith was was combing his beard and we we kind of got that on Brushing my beard this is what happens when you have a glorious mane

01:46:38

A glorious facial mane, which I do not have. Yeah I mean one of the things we have to remember when

01:46:44

I was in 10th grade You know with this with this specific election to the question.

01:46:50

Let me let me answer it this way And we're getting an echo I don't know why um,

01:46:57

I never unmuted it Yeah, so so the the reality is this

01:47:03

People want to say well, you know, what's what's trump's view view of? abortion or lgbt

01:47:10

That's actually not for me the most concerning issue right now for america in america.

01:47:16

We have a right to vote And as long as we have that right to vote we should use it

01:47:21

What's on the ballot this this election Is our democracy?

01:47:27

And more specifically for christians It's our freedom I I believe that joe biden if he's re -elected will start imprisoning christians

01:47:38

Uh, it's just history. It's it's a simple fact of history Okay history has shown that when you

01:47:47

When you have a person that tries to take over the government as as joe biden has he's we've now he has officially gone after his political opponent by You know going having four trials the the

01:48:02

Three of them have been tossed. I think are just not even legal Uh one now that that where he's convicted wasn't legal uh, so Joe biden's going after his political opponent and so because of that what we end up seeing is

01:48:17

I believe that we we've now gotten to a point where our democracy Uh is at risk.

01:48:24

It's been at risk ever ever since this past, you know, the 2020 election with all the the you know two years prior of Insurrection on the streets burning cities down to change the government system

01:48:36

The way to do that was to vote the democrats in and what did they do? They're trying to take all the freedoms away with executive orders things like this

01:48:44

Forcing people to lose their jobs if they don't get a vaccine all this sort of stuff Okay Now we're at a point where they have targeted christians where I mean if you didn't hear it this week a 70 something

01:48:59

I think a 75 year old woman who's in a wheelchair is going to spend two years in prison because she had the audacity to tell people at an abortion clinic that there's things to do like You know keep your baby alive

01:49:15

So You know, I think that there's more at stake in this election

01:49:21

Uh, and it's our it's as christians. It's our freedom christianity is on vote this time

01:49:27

So keith i'll give you the last word on that. He has the last word. Oh, sorry before he has the last word

01:49:32

I will say you guys can go to Um truthloveparent .com. I think that's where I posted it and search for how to kill a christian

01:49:40

Um, and it subtitles in three easy steps and I stepped through You're you're trying to instruct people how to kill a christian because actually it speaks to the point you're trying to make and I basically stepped through I said if a government is going to Get to the place where they're actually going to legalize the killing of christians

01:49:58

There are three things I have to do and I will just say of the three things I have to do We are solidly in step number two as a country.

01:50:06

You guys can go check that out You can read that you can share it and just just because some of you are dark enough that you'll actually do this read the comments underneath that, uh that article that I wrote um people just absolutely

01:50:21

Waiting they cannot wait for the day Uh that killing christians is legal because they uh, they they really want to do that so, um, anyway to check that out what he's saying is is very very possible very realistic that that could actually happen and um go and uh parent .com

01:50:41

parent .com and uh, you can search in the uh, The search bar just how to kill a christian and it'll come up and I just it's a really short article

01:50:50

I make the point about how it happens. But yes keith last last comment on that point. Okay Uh, I do have

01:50:56

I do have a thought that is uh is is going to uh be A little different. Um, I I want to say this

01:51:03

I understand How disappointing it was to hear trump say what he said about abortion

01:51:11

I understand why people are legitimately concerned legitimately upset And I don't trust donald trump in any way in the sense that I would you know

01:51:22

He is a he is a politically motivated person who moves according to the winds of politics political favor for himself

01:51:29

But here is what I do think I think that when we consider what our main issues are and I do think that I I was asked recently

01:51:37

I was on jason Podcast and he asked me what the main issues of voting are for me I said number one is abortion because it is my it is it is something that is near and dear to my heart

01:51:46

But I said the second most important thing and this is strange to people I said the second most important thing is eighth commandment issues eighth commandment issues revolves around the the the concept of theft and stealing

01:51:57

And private property the eighth commandment does not just say thou shall not steal. That's what that's what it says

01:52:03

But what what's inherent in the eighth commandment is the idea that I have the right to own what I own And I have the right to benefit from my own ideas and my own work and my own effort

01:52:11

And what we are seeing in america is we are seeing the diminishing Of the ability to actually own and and and produce and benefit from what we have

01:52:21

Uh the labor and and and effort that we put into things and what is happening Is by the reduction of the value of our dollar by the reduct by the hyperinflation that has been caused over the last few years

01:52:31

It has destroyed Savings of people who have worked very hard and saved money for a long time in that form of theft

01:52:37

And so I do have a second issue abortion is is by far my number one My second issue is the issue of private property and so I can say this when trump was president

01:52:50

Things were better financially they were better Economically and that does matter for how a man is able to provide for his family

01:52:58

And so I can go to my secondary issue and I can say yes I have major issues with trump on the issue of abortion, even though I agree with andrew

01:53:06

He did some good things and obviously roe versus wade being struck down is great But I can move to my second issue and I can say okay

01:53:12

Neither both of them are terrible on the first one. Uh, biden is worse But both are bad, but I can go to my second issue which for me is the issue of private property

01:53:22

Ownership of these things that the value of our currency those important things and I can say trump is better And therefore he he could earn my vote on that.

01:53:31

And so that's so that's Issue, let me ask you a question keith. So with what he said on abortion

01:53:39

We have his record right from four years. He ran as president Uh, he's the first president to go to the walk for life or the march for life.

01:53:48

He's the he Successfully got us strong Conservatives on the court to overturn roe versus wade

01:53:56

Now he made the comment Do you think that it's possible that he made that comment to take away?

01:54:06

What the what he thought was the democrat's strongest argument in other words could he as a politician say something?

01:54:12

He doesn't believe I know that's shocking that a politician would do that. But could he say that because because I wondered

01:54:18

Whether he made that comment because he believes it Or which I do think he does believe it, but I don't know that he'll govern that way

01:54:25

Because we have four years governing against that But I wonder if he said it just to take that argument away from democrats because that was their best argument

01:54:35

And after that that was taken away Right now now abortion is not as big of an issue

01:54:41

In this election because because of what he said, so do you think it's possible that he just said that to take it away?

01:54:48

oh, I mean he he certainly is uh he is

01:54:54

Doing what he does because he thinks it is politically expedient So yes, I think that there are motivations that cause him to do that But I also don't

01:55:02

I agree with what you said. He's not a christian I don't expect for non -christians to think like christians

01:55:08

I don't and I I really i'm going to use james white's uh, uh illustration on this

01:55:13

Uh, so if anyone's heard this don't don't say oh, I heard white say at first. Okay, that's fine You'll you'll hear a lot of things

01:55:19

I say that white said first and that's fine He's my teacher one of my teachers and so but he said this he said the difference between Voting for trump versus voting for biden or I think at this point it was trump versus hillary because it's a long time ago

01:55:31

He said the difference is whether or not you have a car going towards a cliff and you have one person with their foot on The gas and the other person at least attempting to put their foot on the brake

01:55:40

And it seems as if the democrats are putting their foot on the gas And trying to take us off the cliff as quickly as possible.

01:55:47

At least there seems to be with within Uh the the the the trump camp a willingness to try to apply the break in some of these crazy areas

01:55:55

But you mentioned earlier dei and things like that. Um, those are the those are uh, uh are

01:56:02

Quickly trying to take us off the cliff and at least they're trying to apply the break. So Um, I think that's worth mentioning and worth considering Okay, so brad says thank you

01:56:13

Personally, I have been having a hard time with it because I want to make sure I have a clear conscience

01:56:19

And I always seem to second guess myself in what's the right thing to do Uh, and that's so i'm glad that we were able to answer that.

01:56:28

Um Hmm let's see, uh Did to do whatever was the other one

01:56:33

I saw I saw one from fatima that I wanted to oh here.

01:56:40

So fatima says. Oh here in the philippines. It's not that extreme yet well fama

01:56:49

You have the soby law. We you know, we talked about that in the in the pre -conference to strange fire

01:56:55

I don't know if you were there in in manila at the strange at the uh, The where we addressed the the woke agenda

01:57:02

But we you know, I talked about in there briefly with as I addressed the issue of homosexuality

01:57:07

You and the philippines do have an extreme Bill that I would encourage you and any of my filipina

01:57:15

Filipino brothers and sisters there to do is to do everything you can To try to let your representatives know not to vote for the soby bill

01:57:24

For the americans that don't know what that is. This is a bill in the philippines that if passed

01:57:31

Will make it illegal for every pastor To from the pulpit say that homosexuality is wrong wow so So that bill could very easily get every pastor arrested

01:57:47

And so yeah it it you may not seem that extreme but unfortunately Fatima we in the united states and I said at the conference.

01:57:56

I apologize started off my talk at that conference apologizing at the pre -conference apologizing to my filipino brothers and sisters for the bad political policies that my country america has exported to their country because It is kind of weird that they talk in the philippines about being woke

01:58:16

Which is something to do with the african slave trade, which? Wasn't in the philippines Right.

01:58:21

So it was an export from our country. We could probably thank george soros or real more realistically

01:58:27

Alex soros who probably is really running things so, um Let's see we uh

01:58:36

Okay, so I think that's that's the comments, you know, I will say this there's some some comments about trump with women um

01:58:43

You know, it is quite interesting I don't know if you guys noticed this when trump was president remember how obama when he was president

01:58:49

There was like they were counting how many women And blacks and and all this that were in the candidate cabinet

01:58:57

And it was like it was as if he had more women than anyone And with obama or sorry with biden.

01:59:04

They're talking about the how many transgenders and things like that but Do you know who actually had more women and involved in the cabinet was trump?

01:59:14

It was actually trump who had a lot of women involved in his administration And I never heard they're gonna say that biden did it because he's pro -woman they're gonna say that trump did it because he's a pervert

01:59:25

Exactly. Yeah Yeah and yet the reverse we do know because you know biden did have to seal records for You know someone who claimed he that she he raped her just saying right?

01:59:40

So, um, so with that, you know, uh, Keith it was great having you on Always it is always fun being around with you

01:59:48

I want to encourage folks to go check out, uh his youtube channel Because you will enjoy not only the sermons people know him for his very very funny videos

01:59:59

But I do encourage you to check out his his channel because you'll get his sermons. You also get uh,

02:00:06

Though I haven't seen too many recently. Maybe it's just because I I haven't seen him but uh,

02:00:11

He does some videos for family worship, which I enjoyed very much even though it's just my wife and I we don't have the kids anymore uh, but he does gear it towards Training up your children.

02:00:21

So I enjoy that that on on his channel. So, uh, check out what keith foskey does keith I'm, just going to open it up to you to let you promote anything that you want or let folks know

02:00:30

How to get in touch with you. Maybe they have a really really good joke that you can work your way into us

02:00:37

I mean just maybe One of the great things I have people send me is ideas for videos

02:00:42

I got a guy sent me an idea today and it was actually pretty good and I wrote him back I said that's going to become a video.

02:00:48

Uh, just a few months ago. I did one on um, the jehovah witness protection program

02:00:53

Just the title is great And it was a kid. It was somebody who watches me their kid came up with that idea

02:01:01

He should do one called the jehovah witness protection program They sent me the text and within a week I had written a script and done the video and they loved it

02:01:08

And I was so thankful for that family. So Yes, I am more than happy to steal your ideas and use them as my own

02:01:14

And so if you want to send me anything just go to keithfoskey .com You can email me directly from the website and I do read all of the emails even though I have a very simple rule

02:01:26

My email return to you will be less than three sentences It's the only way I can get through all of them And so if you want me to write you a book,

02:01:33

I have already written a book and you can buy it at Sovereign Grace Church Just go to our church and you can find it at sgfcjacks .com

02:01:40

slash books and buy my book called a biblically functioning church Other than that, I can't write you a book, but I will write you three sentences if you send me an email and and I I was honored to be featured in there for your

02:01:52

Jehovah witness protection plan you had different levels. I I yes you were I was I was obviously the lowest level but But you know you had matt slick in there and then the highest level was you got you got james white

02:02:06

James white comes lives in your driveway This is the Yeah for our for our goal or platinum package

02:02:12

James white will come live in your driveway and answer any jehovah witnesses who come to the door And and i've i've i've gotten to witness your cre your creative juices working

02:02:21

The the first conference we had we were together. We first met we were sitting in a buffalo wild wings and greg moore just turns to you and says

02:02:31

Okay, keith How would a methodist order buffalo wild wings and you looked at the menu just were like?

02:02:38

He would get the cauliflower That's right. And that was it all of a sudden everyone just started talking different things and you turned it into a video

02:02:47

And somehow people thought I didn't pay for the bill. It's been seen hundreds of thousands of times. Yeah So go you could go check that out.

02:02:55

Uh at his at his youtube channel, so Uh keith, thanks for coming in. It's always a pleasure being with you

02:03:01

I know that you and aaron i'm sure had a lot of fun a good time Uh this week doing karate camp and uh

02:03:08

There will be a video, uh that goes out. I'm sure there's going to be more than one video.

02:03:14

Yes Uh, so yeah, uh, but i'm you know, maybe some magic tricks in there too just you know, throw that in We'll have to save that for another week.

02:03:23

Yeah. Yeah magic camp magic camp. There we go Hey, there you go so, uh aaron anything you got going on that we should

02:03:33

Talk about promote let folks know about uh, well, don't forget about the uh,

02:03:39

The conference that andrew and I are going to be at later on in august in veil, nevada

02:03:45

Definitely, uh, hope if you're in the area Sorry, sorry, arizona. Yes, my bad Um, hope if you're in the area or you can get to the area that you'll definitely come and do that Uh, please pray for me.

02:03:55

I do have a book lord willing coming out this summer sometime soon. It's called quit God's cure for family strife

02:04:02

It's a short book and uh, we're we're really in the the final stages of that hoping to have it out, uh before October, so if you guys would um, please uh, pray that that uh comes to fruition here soon

02:04:14

I would love uh, I would love for that but uh still doing the podcast So come check us out at truth.

02:04:20

Love parents if you are in the parenting stage of life and uh, and definitely um

02:04:25

Uh, just keep praying for the ministry definitely could use uh, some more speaking opportunities and we also actually know what now that I think

02:04:31

About it. We're doing something kind of special in the past. My counseling schedule has just been very full

02:04:37

Uh as a biblical counselor in person and virtually and uh, one of the things that we decided would be fun to do through the end of july of 2024

02:04:46

Is anybody who comes for biblical counseling and it is a paid thing that we do through our ministry

02:04:53

Um, that's uh, I love churches that are able to offer free counseling I think that's fantastic.

02:04:58

But for our ministry is something that we do charge for But now through the end of july, we're offering 50 % off anyone who signs up for biblical counseling or discipleship through the end of july

02:05:08

Um until they graduate, um until they finish their their counseling sessions with us

02:05:13

They'll get 50 % off and so I just want to make that as an opportunity for anyone who's just looking for has some difficult questions

02:05:21

Uh and not really sure where they should turn I'd love to be a blessing to you in that area So if I sign up for that I get the 50 for life

02:05:29

Yeah, because you're gonna need that your counseling will never end There will be no graduation until you are graduated into glory

02:05:38

Yeah, he just barely saved y 'all That's my next shirt he's gonna say warning i'm just barely saved

02:05:49

Yes The singes of fire still on me So, uh, yeah, so I I will be um headed to utah

02:05:58

In june be out there at the i'll be speaking at the utah christian research center

02:06:05

Uh, so that is i'm looking forward to that that is with mormon research ministries

02:06:11

If you are not familiar with mrm .org check them out they have a Research center and so we will be out there for that.

02:06:19

Um, I will be teaching quite a number of topics. Uh That they have on the schedule.

02:06:27

Uh I think i'm there thursday friday saturday and we I believe We're setting up a debate

02:06:33

Uh with matt slick and I on baptism on saturday afternoon So july, uh, june 20th,

02:06:40

I will be teaching can we trust the bible? We heard a little bit of that tonight Uh the uniqueness of christianity and the trinity is a solution to a problem

02:06:49

Friday june 21st I will be teaching on the roman teaching about the roman catholic church How to defend the faith and the deity of christ and then on saturday june 22nd

02:06:59

The dangers of social justice and our ambassador evangelism So that will all be at the utah center

02:07:06

Uh creation research center so you can check them out there and you just go to utah

02:07:12

Uh utah christian research center dot com for that now the conference that Aaron referred to if you want to get details on that Just go to striving for eternity .org

02:07:26

slash veil v a I l give you all the details. This is going to be a great conference now.

02:07:33

I I admit that Most of the speakers you probably never heard of you've heard of aaron.

02:07:38

You've heard of I but uh The all of these speakers are outstanding speakers, even if you've never heard of them, uh dan craft the seven foot apologist

02:07:49

We have dominic gemaldi, which if you listen to the different podcasts on christian podcast community, uh, he is one of the podcasters there

02:07:57

Kevin, hey who kevin, uh, keith, you know, kevin He is the gq pastor the gorgeous specimen and I say that with an unblemished record of heterosexuality

02:08:07

Yeah Yeah By the way, you said something about a seven foot apologist i've never seen one with more than two

02:08:15

I don't know. Well, he's he is He's quite tall. Uh So we we got a lot of good good topics

02:08:24

The the conference is christian responsibility in an unchristian world Uh, we all live in an unchristian world.

02:08:31

Uh, we need to be prepared know our responsibility in that So I encourage you to go to striving for attorney .org

02:08:38

Vale register now, uh for that conference. Um So got some things coming up in september.

02:08:46

I will bring those up as it gets closer next week folks next week the plan is

02:08:52

Someone sent me a video to uh, one of the remnant radio brother guys, uh their podcast a video to Review we may do that when

02:09:01

I get back from utah But next week we will have doreen virtue if you don't know who she is

02:09:08

Doreen is uh was a very very big name. I don't know what's going on with their muke mighty, but they're cracking themselves up i'm just saying

02:09:17

I want to apologize and melissa caught us. She said look at those naughty boys We had a really long day y 'all i'm so sorry and i'm not trying to oh my goodness

02:09:29

I apologize. Look at those naughty boys. See I purposely I could have I don't know

02:09:36

See, I could have done this so that people didn't see that but I I didn't want to do that Maybe I should just do this and keep talking.

02:09:43

So So you're on screen, uh, but yeah, so next next week during virtue, uh

02:09:49

Is someone who's very very big in the new age movement? and so, uh

02:09:55

She was I believe on oprah on different places and so um You know,

02:10:01

I we will talk about the new age movement. So if you have any questions about new age movement join us next week

02:10:08

Uh, we we will probably talk about yoga Um doreen doreen here is saying doreen had some good videos about yoga that am bruster should watch

02:10:18

Come on, danine get off my back Oh goodness. So, uh, kathy hates me for my yoga position

02:10:26

She says Kathy says

02:10:32

I saw your testimony andrew on doreen virtue I was I I video I did a an interview with doreen months ago and it just Came out now so yeah, she had me on talking about my uh my background, uh coming from judaism to christianity, so What you never

02:10:59

We should go longer just to see What might come out of this

02:11:06

I gotta drive him back to his hotel, man I was like a long night. I gotta make a karate video

02:11:13

You know, I got a lot to do it's his birthday. You could just let him sleep in the in the studio there in the studio

02:11:20

My wife would appreciate me locking him in the studio with no bathroom Actually, his wife might not mind

02:11:26

Since it came up on on live online My wife actually we were talking about some some options for tonight

02:11:35

She goes you could just have a sleepover and I was like I was like that's such a wonderful I'm, not even going to suggest that to him.

02:11:42

How awkward might that be? Again unblemished record

02:11:48

Just don't you understand All right folks with that we want to we'll see you next week

02:11:56

Uh, just remember to strive to make today an eternal day for god's glory and we'll see you next time.