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August 1, 2018:
VINCE & SAMUEL WARD, father & son Reformed Presbyterian veterans of South Sudan’s mission field & co-authors of:
“PURSUIT OF GLORY: A Disciple’s Journey With JESUS”
Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now here's our host.
Good.
Afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnz.
And your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this first day of August 2018. I'm so delighted to have on the program for the very first time a Father and son team. They are a father and son reformed Presbyterian veterans of South Sudan's mission field and they are co-authors of the book.
We are going to be discussing pursuit of glory a disciples journey with Jesus a publication of crown and covenant publications and. It's my honor and privilege to welcome you both for the first time ever to iron sharpens iron radio Vince and Samuel Ward.
Thank you so much. I think.
Well.
First of all, let's get a an Overview before we enter into the topic of your book and even enter into your personal testimonies of salvation which I always Have included or at least at most of the time I have included when I'm interviewing first-time guests.
But before that if you could give us an overview of the book pursuit of glory a disciples journey with Jesus. That crown and covenant has just recently published.
Sure. So this is a deal, it's two books in one two-thirds the length of the book and then my son Samuel wrote that the last third and for my part, I'm telling the story of my life my journey with Jesus and begins with my youth and how God saved me by sovereign grace and Then call me to the mission field and that was a long journey to get to South Sudan but involved equipping getting married and finally getting established as a team in South Sudan and serving there for almost 10 years and.
So.
Samuel can share a little bit just summarizing his his part of the book.
Yeah.
So my part of the book is I wrote it when about three years ago when I was much younger and it basically just gives An overview or description my my growing up years in South Sudan just to give people idea What what missionary life was like from the eyes of a child and so there are many different stories in there and just different experiences that I share about that can give a person a better idea of what with that.
Terrific well.
Now I would like to have each of your salvation testimonies in summary form. We typically ask our first-time guests to describe what kind of religious atmosphere If any they were raised in.
And.
Obviously, although many people don't recognize this even if you are raised in an atheist home you were raised with a religious Upbringing. It was just a very wrong one.
But but.
If you could tell us about that what kind of religion you were raised in if any and Also, what's what's providential circumstances did our Sovereign Lord bring about in your life That drew you to himself and saved you.
Sure.
Just maybe to situate our learners. Sorry the listeners there. I was born in Quebec City Which is the French province of Canada and my parents raised my sister and I in a home. Leading us to with a Christ centered Home Christ-like example bring us into to the means of grace in local church.
But it's interesting. I wasn't baptized even though my parents are Presbyterian. I wasn't baptized as a child because at the time they were going to an Anglican Church in Quebec City and my father was remembering how the minister would would say to the parents that that with baptism a child is regenerate and that was Not fitting it with histology.
But so I was not baptized as a child, but I. We moved to Ottawa when I was five and For those listening Ottawa at the capital of Canada.
My parents found a Presbyterian Church that we attended as a family throughout my youth and As I mentioned in the book I was a young Driven boy seeking the prize of glory and in competitive swimming in particular as a as my main sport and Pursued that for 12 years and yet fell far short of my dreams.
And As I was clearly not achieving my goals. I Had anger with God and I thought comfort and distraction in other ambitions but also immoral relationships and Partying all to escape from reality the reality was that I was lost and Later in my teens.
I stopped going to church. I remember one day My mom asked me if I was going to come with them and I said no and she looked at me with real obvious loving concern and she said I fear for you that you are spiritually dead and She was right I was spiritually dead and though I thought it was alive I Assume that I was a Christian.
I conviction of sin. I would confess my sin I had seasons of my life where I would redouble my efforts to live as many young people say on fire for God But I was still bound in my own life carrying the burden of sin and I didn't know what to do.
I as though I knew I was shackled and I didn't know how to be set free In the summer of 1996 and I was in the middle of my university studies Where God regenerated me? He set me free and it was at a Christian camp a camp that I would go to every summer at this time I was a counselor and I was listening intently to the speaker and He used very simple terms, but he was describing substitutionary atonement double imputation all the doctrines that I now come to know and love and God opened my ears to hear the glorious gospel and Immediately coming back from that camp.
I Dove into Christian fellowship with the university University group there and I tried to find the most committed Christian I could find to latch on to it and I invited myself to a person's church and it was the reformed Presbyterian Church of Ottawa and the following summer I was baptized and Came into membership and That's where my formation began.
So that's that's the story of God giving me a new heart new affections for his glory.
Amen, and before we go on to Samuel's personal testimony. How was it that you specifically? Came to embrace by the grace of God. The doctrines of the sovereign grace of God. How did you come into reformed theology and even more specifically the reformed Presbyterian Church of North America otherwise known as yeah, or P and a or RPC na and the Covenanters.
They're also nicknamed. Yes. Tell us about.
Sure. Yeah, so it was interesting. I was a new believer at this Church that I started attending reformed Christian Church of Ottawa and I I was clueless. I mean, honestly, I grew up going to church, but I didn't know the Bible at all.
So it was those starting from scratch soaking in the good teaching there and that following summer I just been baptized. I started listening to tapes from the pastor.
On.
On tulips and and the doctrines of grace and so that was my first introduction to it. I was again soaking that in and At our church, there's a small seminary called Ottawa Theological Hall and that's where I received my theological formation and and was came under care we call it coming under care to student and Also going through the presbytery exams and being ordained in 2006.
So I receive all my Equipping and in my theology there at that local church in Ottawa.
Now.
How did the Lord how did you know that the Lord placed it upon your heart to? enter into the mission field.
Sure. Well, I finished University of Ottawa with a degree in physical therapy and I thought this was a great vocation to serve people but God really started to impress on me that I People that would really benefit from that kind of care in in Needy countries like Africa and so I took a trip in 1999 Summer mission trip and I saw how I could use physical therapy in hospitals there.
It came back from that Experience wanting to go back to Africa right away and so I put together a proposal to my elders saying I'd love to go back to Africa preach the gospel and They said well, what are you going to preach and you know, are you going to be planting churches when you when people get saved.
And so they encouraged me to go through the whole theological formation process at Ottawa Theological Hall and I really struggle with that advice because I wanted to go back to Africa right away, but I Submitted to the Lord Sovereign will again and it was the next day on my way to the clinic when God just impressed on my heart very strongly that God was calling to Sudan in particular.
These were people that I had met in Ottawa. I'd met also in Kenya on that trip and so God was giving me a people to serve and so over many years God directed it to a particular place in place in Sudan and That was the beginning of a ministry that we we launched formally in 2006.
Praise God. And Before we move on again unto Samuel, can you give us something a description about? The Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America that sets it apart from not only other Calvinistic Reformed and Sovereign Grace believing bodies denominations and fellowships and congregations.
But it even is set apart in certain ways from other conservative Presbyterians. Sure.
We trace our heritage back to the Scottish Covenanters, and I know there were splits there and basically when when Scottish and Irish Reformed Presbyterians settled in Canada and America and they formed themselves as Synod as the RPCNA and The distinction I would say in terms of how the other Presbyterian churches have As streamed in as well.
Basically, we believe in the mediatorial kingship of Christ. That's that term. That's very common within our Circles in that Christ is sovereign over church and state overall and.
Also.
The worship where we have Exclusive psalmody so singing of the Psalms. We have our own book of worship Where it is the book of Psalms without musical instruments and The preaching of the gospel. I think what had happened in the RPCNA in the early night 1900s.
There was some a liberal stream that was flowing through and.
Mid.
1900s it began to turn around. There was tremendous decline, but now there's a real emphasis on the gospel and discipleship in our denomination. So.
I praise God. I wasn't even aware that there was at one point a liberal turn in the RPCNA. I didn't know that.
Yeah, there was some moralism that was creeping in and There was definitely Significant decline. There were almost 100 churches in Canada at one point and now it went on down to one church in Canada and now It's revived to I think there's seven or eight congregations in Canada.
So. Um, yeah, definitely turning around.
And if I'm not mistaken, I think you're also one of the few Presbyterian denominations that Believes in total abstinence from alcohol. Am I right on that?
That death definitely is part of our history. Where elders were asked to make a vow of abstinence? But that was turned in the early 2000s, I believe. So no longer there and and so. That's part of the history, but no longer.
Present I see and.
I don't know if you even know this and I believe that is historically accurate, but I was told a number of years ago that the Reformed Presbyterians were the first A Christian denomination in the south that were opposed to slavery openly.
That is correct. Definitely part of our heritage they're involved in in the underground railroad and speaking out politically against slavery and. And very strongly so.
Praise God. All right now Samuel. We'd love to hear your testimony of course an abbreviated version of it on how the Lord got a hold of you and saved you and also Convicted you in the beliefs of what we call Reformed Theology.
Yeah, so all my life really big emphasis at an early age and I knew how much I needed to repent because of my sin and so there was a period of my life where every single sin I committed I was paranoid about, you know, repenting before God and I didn't feel like it was enough because I There were many times I can remember again because I felt like at that point I was not a Christian and I Needed to recommit my life to Christ by grace in Christ.
He was meaning that in the future. Honestly, I'm not sure when that happened, but it did. Another big back to Canada because I really did not want to move back. Are you saying we'll move back from the Sudan you mean?
Yeah, I'm moving back from South Sudan to Canada. Wow. You wanted to stay in South Sudan. Wow. I certainly did. Yes, so I was struggling with painful reality of leaving the mission field and I really just didn't want to submit to God's will Because of that, but I've been back three years now.
It was rather smooth transition and It's amazing because I'm not really fighting his will anymore. He's giving me the peace and resonation to that that you know, his will is best. He has the best plan for my life He knows it's gonna in my life and that God would use me for his name and his service.
Amen. And I've been. Please forgive me if you already said this. But Samuel were you born on the mission field or you just brought there as a young child? I.
Was born in Canada, Ottawa, Canada, and I moved to the make. Okay, so you probably don't remember anything.
But the mission field from when you were two to when you left Sudan.
Yeah, pretty much don't remember anything. Yeah. Wow.
Mission.
Well, I'm gonna give our listeners our email address if they would like to join us on the air with a question of their own. It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. C H R I s a r n z e n at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least.
Your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. And please only remain anonymous If your question involves a personal and private matter. That's. C H R I s a r n z e n at gmail .com.
We already have a question for the both of you. We have Barney in Perry County, Pennsylvania. Who asks. I am dying to find out exactly what the circumstances were like in? Southern Sudan where you were ministering on the mission field.
Please give us much of a vivid detail description as you can including. The culture and religion of those that surrounded you the friendships that you may have made and so on. And we could start with Vince this time and.
That that's a big question so we'll give her that will take us to the rest of the program I guess.
Yeah, so let me give.
A.
Bit of historical geographical. Picture here. So Sudan was one country since independence 1956 and then in 2011 Sudan divided in two with South Sudan now as a new country in the newest country and Sudan remaining Its own country.
And We lived in one location just near the border of Sudan and so that's what we know best in terms of what Sudan. So Sudan was and is. And We lived in a village. So if you can picture all around It's Savannah.
It's a lot of tall grass and trees. It has a rainy season where everything gets very muddy. But you have crops growing very tall like sorghum way over your head and other crops ground nuts peanuts.
Yeah, now sorghum is sorghum the crop that you get bubblegum from chewing gum. Oh I'm not sure actually, but that's what you said. The crop was I don't think so. Okay. Did you mention did that was mentioned?
Right sorghum. Yeah.
Yeah, you may get bubblegum for I'm not sure at all, okay, well I'm so yeah, yeah, that's okay, so. That's your staple grain and then peanuts as well for their sauce. They have fish they have rivers around.
In terms of the the dry season that's really when it's very parched very hot. It gets into the 50s Celsius and 120 up to 120 Fahrenheit. So very dry and hot. It is it is a beautiful landscape. It has lots of beautiful birds and it can be a very beautiful place now.
The beauty of the place is really the people and that's why we were there. The Dinka people the ones we were working with they were very much Localized in that area isn't quite a densely populated area compared to other places in South Sudan and the Dinka tribe are the largest tribe in South Sudan about 40 or so.
And We learn our language. We learn their culture. We lived in a village like them for four and a half years in a mud hut with grass that's roof.
If you were to pass by you wouldn't think that any Westerners live there initially and we we wanted to really integrate ourselves within the community there. And Samuel can maybe paint if he's better at painting pictures for than I am.
I think you've had but I think it's so that's very giving you a picture landscape of the place. Did you remind me of some aspects of that question again?
I'm sorry, you know your your. Your voice began to become garbled. Can you have to be at all? You have to repeat what you just said? I'm sorry.
Could you ask some of the? Parts of that question again some of the oh the the religion and.
Religion and elements of the culture of those surrounding you and if you made any friends and so on. Obviously, you must have made friends along the way.
Sure. Yeah other people there is Christian primarily in name. But only recently in the last ten years where people really have Come to true faith in Christ and in the large numbers before that it was people identifying themselves as Christian or just because that's really the church that was there for the last 50 years and The yet still practicing in their traditional religion and in that place the Catholic Church allows for witchcraft and For the mixing in we talk about syncretism and missions.
That's very much the case there in that area.
Yeah, I think that historically the Catholic Church has been involved in that for centuries and syncretism with all kinds of pagan cultures.
Exactly. So that's the case there but more evangelical churches have come in including the one that we helped the plant. They have brought in the true gospel and and that that has brought Reformation in many ways To the area and because we had a radio station that was reaching far and wide we have just hundreds of thousands of listeners and and Bringing the gospel every day morning and evening with with the programming there.
So it the religious Landscape has changed dramatically in the last ten years.
So so this would matter the surroundings wouldn't be so primitive that people didn't have radios and so on. I'm assuming from what you just said.
Initially very few radios Were found in the area. Only those who are rich and working with the government or with NGOs could afford a radio. But the organization that we partnered with called every village.
They have brought in Think some. Wow, maybe 60 ,000 solar power six tune handheld radios. So that that Cause that you know, if these radios are shared and listened to by several others that brings Tens of thousands of people listening to those radios and then also with cell phone companies coming in.
People can listen to the FM station on their phone and like right now. It's pretty much the case most adults in that area with now.
When you said that the the typical the average family Were nominal Catholic or somehow influenced by the Catholic Church when you were there laboring in the mission field in South Sudan Were there right nearby you remaining Roman Catholic missionaries.
Had they had banned in that area? Obviously if they were present they would become aware that you were teaching people that a Romish gospel was a false gospel and that I had to abandon any concepts of trusting in their own works.
Trusting in the merits of Mary and the Saints praying to Mary and the Saints praying that you were opposed to praying to images kneeling before images bowing to them viewing them as having Power infused in them somehow and Enable and enabled to create miracles.
All kinds of things that superstitions and the idolatrous teachings of the Church of Rome tell us about. That kind of conflict that may have existed there.
Well, there were Missionaries. There was one American missionary in another county. He left. And the ones that are really there are priests that are coming from Uganda or Kenya and and unfortunately, they've really given a terrible witness to the the Catholic members with Lifestyles of immorality and drunkenness.
This is the missionaries. These are these are priests. Wow again. And Kenyan priests. Yeah. Wow, and and you know, I think the good thing you mentioned a lot of what is part of Rome and.
Because it's such a primitive or let me say undeveloped area. The churches that are started these Catholic chapels they call them. They will listen to the radio station and there we have so much more influence on on these catechists.
Then then the Catholic Church their priest or whoever because they might see them maybe once or twice a year. But they're listening to this gospel radio station and they model their preaching often after the men that we've trained in to be pastors and and are preaching on the radio and.
There there aren't too many images in these these grass that chapels and. Though they will have celebrations for the former pioneer missionary of Sudan. His name is Daniel Kamboni. They'll have a Kamboni day, they'll have a Mary day.
They'll have their their heart doing their holy days. Let me call them but When it comes to the message that is preached there's been a tremendous influence and an open door to influence these.
These.
Catechists.
Well, we have to go to our first break right now. And by the way Arnie in Perry County, you have won a free copy of pursuit of glory a disciples journey with Jesus. The book written by both of our guests today of Vince and Samuel Ward.
Compliments of Crown and Covenant publications and also compliments of CV. BBS. Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service will be shipping that book out to you. So, please make sure we have your full mailing address in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.
I'm sorry in Perry County, Pennsylvania. We're going to our first break right now. If anybody would like to get online and ask a question of your own. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris a RN Z en a gmail .com as always.
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Hi, I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern Time on WLIE radio www .wlie540am .com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions.
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Everyone needs a pastor. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen if you have a question for our guests today Vince and Samuel Ward father and son reformed Presbyterian veterans of South Sudan's mission field and co-authors of pursuit of glory a Disciples journey with Jesus then shoot us an email with Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. By the way, that voice that you just heard my dear friend pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church Denomination he is also the domestic missionary for Reformation Metro, New York in addition to being host of a visit to the pastor study.
My guests might find this interesting Vincent Samuel Ward, although Bill Shishko was a pastor for many years in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church denomination and still as a member of that denomination Even though he's retired from pastoral ministry.
He was the first person to introduce me To one of my favorite preachers of all time who happens to be in the reformed Presbyterian denomination. That's Ted Donnelly. I'm sure you're familiar with Ted.
Oh, really? Of course. Yeah, Ted Donnelly who? Ministers in Ireland, by the way, how's brother Donnelly's health doing these days? I heard that he was turning around for the better and improving in his health.
Yes.
He has definitely Improved significantly and and He has in a past year taken on more speaking engagements. But I can't tell you the update yet so in terms of how he's doing more recently.
Well, I just urge anybody listening to look up perhaps on sermon audio or some other Places where Ted Donnelly's sermons might be archived. He is an extraordinary preacher powerful preacher of the gospel and I truly enjoyed hearing him in person at The Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, Long Island, New York where I first met him probably back in the 1990s, I believe.
But.
Going back to our discussion. In fact, we have a listener.
Who.
Has a question about what we were already discussing regarding the the physical Description you were giving of the villages in the Sudan where you were ministering. We have CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York.
Who says. Did you ever start to reconsider your move to the Sudan from Canada when life was? Obviously a lot harder for you. Tell us something about.
The.
Physical conditions of the area including indoor plumbing electricity or anything like that. How did you manage to? Become so accustomed to living without these luxuries that we take for granted in.
In.
More modern societies.
Well, I would give credit to my wife Julie who was at home this mud hut. We did not have any Running water at all. Actually, we enjoyed not having it. We had water brought from the water well and put into a reservoir inside the house and Use jugs to pour into our water filter or dishwater basins.
So we enjoy the simplicity of living in that hut and the hard parts were the heat.
During the dry season at times, you know, it just wouldn't seem to let out the let up. From until three o 'clock in the morning and then it would break for a little bit of cool time. Then it would get hot again.
So that was very on the body. The hardest part was the cross-cultural interactions and. That's the way ministry is that's what trains us the most and so it was compounding of the physical environment, but the cross-cultural conflict at times and and yet just trying to communicate trying to live at peace with people and.
Definitely the the people work was the hardest work.
Now when you say that the difficulty of living at peace with people. What was the hostility or tension involving? Well, we really love the Dinka people.
Yet they can't you could generalize to say that the Dinkas are an aggressive people. They.
Are an aggressive people. Did you say an aggressive? Yeah, okay.
Yes, aggressive. They they can easily be set off with anger and violent and.
Uh.
Yes, I mean if you look at what's happening in South Sudan today You'll see a lot of violence in the news and that is a real reality of situation South Sudan if someone has a gun and many most people do that's when people lose their lives and if it gets to that point of conflict and.
And yet we had just been living in the village we had some interactions with people where it got physical but generally it was just mostly at the beginning where it was just very hard to communicate because we're learning a new language and.
Later on and we really started to have some very strong advocates in the village to help us if there is any conflict. Especially with the church that was planted and. People who are now transformed by the gospel and renewed in their minds and and just a real dramatic transformation in in the community there.
Since the church was planted in 2010 or 2009 New people are serving with and so there's a lot of confusion and hurt that understandings in that area.
CJ you have won a free copy of pursuit of glory a disciples journey with Jesus. Please give us your full mailing address in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York. So that's CV. BBS comm can ship that out to you.
No charge to you or to us. And once again, we thank Crown and Covenant publications for providing these free copies for us. We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania. Who says we have heard a lot about the Muslim persecution of Christians in the Sudan?
Was this type of persecution going on in the area of South Sudan where you lived or was that in another area?
Well, if you look back at the history of the two wars in the latter half of the 9th 20th century You you definitely have very strong Persecution of Christians, so it was the Khartoum government. That's the capital Central government in the north that was sending jihad fighters.
So they were fighting holy war against the Christian South and that was a reality leading up into the early 2000s and Then when there was a piece of comprehensive peace agreement that was signed in 2005 there was an interim period leading up to the Vote that all Southerners voted to separate from the north to be their own nation and Then they really Sir, there's freedom of religion in South Sudan though.
You have a small minority of Muslims in South Sudan. There is now freedom of religion. And so that has changed the dynamics now in Sudan.
Independence of South Sudan. Sudan has really reacted on persecution wanting to make Sudan to be an Islamic state and so they have been persecuting Christians, especially Christian leaders in Khartoum the capital city destroying church buildings Imprisoning pastors and so there is systematic persecution going on right now.
Well, thank you.
CJ and actually that was Susan Margaret Susan Margaret and Dauphin County, Pennsylvania. Please give us your full mailing address so that you can also have a free copy of the book that we are discussing today The pursuit of glory by our guests Vince and Samuel.
Ward John and banger Maine says I am intrigued by the fact that Samuel did not want to leave the Sudan. Even though it must be a much more comfortable way of living in Canada. I would love to hear more about why Samuel was so discouraged by his move to Canada.
At least initially, well, I am from the age I was two and.
Apart from brief vacations we had in Canada or in larger cities in East Africa, I that was pretty much all I knew and so I really did get used to it and Honestly at first when we Heard we were moving about two years before the actual day.
We left because you know, we had some family and some friends back in Canada. But then that was just in the past two years that I lived in South Sudan. I started forming real relationships with the local children in the village and so that's when things started changing for me because I began Can't identify with home because all the things with the friends there and So pretty much like feeling uneasy about the move because I didn't want to leave them.
I didn't want to leave the way of life. I had in South Sudan and I mean I was used to everything. I really didn't care much about the luxury of things. It was all quite normal to me and Yeah in those relationships.
I was for me to to make the move now.
Did you speak fluently as a child. The native language, I'm assuming you must have if you were raised there since you were two.
And that's another difficulty because when I moved there I was kind of I would say Isolated because we soon, you know, we had other missionaries and those are the people I associated with and so I never ended up Gaining a fluent understanding of the language because by the time I started having local friendships.
All my friends were in school and they had started learning English. They wanted to practice English with me. And so it was. I mean, I guess I was being lazy and I just spoke English.
Regret.
One of my big regrets that I never learned I did. I know I speak African indication, but.
Forgive me for asking you to repeat this if you've already said it.
But Do you.
Sorry, I was just Distracted by a question from a listener coming in. What. First of all, what is the the name of the language of the the common language in South Sudan. I'm sorry, if you've already said this.
Well with South Sudan becoming independent state they have chosen English to be their official language but there are approximately 64 people groups ethnic groups in South Sudan and each of them having their own language.
And so the area we were in had the Dinka tribes that would have been the Dinka language. But they call themselves the monjang or that's the name of the language and it was by far the biggest tribe in South Sudan.
Approximately 40 of people in South Sudan are from this Dinka tribe. So it was a pretty large language. Wow.
And as far as you as a child growing up and making friends there how much of the. The customs and tradition that were intrinsic to South Sudan were part of Your life. As far as games you would play perhaps sports or anything else that would involve day-to-day life with other kids.
Was any of that? Nearing the the border or crossing the border of being inappropriate Christian Custom and tradition and so on. Obviously there are Rituals and ceremonies and all kinds of things that a culture may have that are benign that they can even be enjoyed amongst converts to Christianity.
But there are also others that would be crossing the line perhaps in an idolatrous sense or something like that. I mean tell us about that as far as your day-to-day life with other kids.
As I mentioned in the early days, I wasn't playing much the other kids. But later on I'll put a lot of soccer and that that's really important to the children there. All the boys left everywhere.
But America that's important. Everywhere on the planet Earth.
And we know I climb trees we played like small games together. But in terms of things that were like inappropriate for a Christian to do I I don't. I can't think of anything really that that would have crossed the line of being appropriate.
How about you Vince? Yeah, so. It's a good question because as missionaries We we want to help we were discipling the new believers and we want them to be discerning. What is good and evil and so that involves looking at their traditional?
Ways and I can give you some examples of how they had to choose, you know. This is something that we will not participate in an example of that would be the would they would call the drum so at night the drum would be beating and the youth would come and.
At those it's really kind of like a dance party. It's not as bad as a lot of the high school dance parties, but. The culture has really shifted and some those parties those dance parties they call the drum and.
That is something that that the pastors are telling the youth that this is not the place for you to go.
So that's clear at night. They will gather together and they will clap their hands and sing songs. And generally those songs are.
Are.
Acceptable, but the good thing is that It's a lot of these women are now composing songs that are Christ centered and instead of singing about their clan They're now singing about God and and the kingdom of God and the gospel.
Praise God We're going to our midway break right now. Our midway break is longer than our normal break because grace life radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida Requires that we have an elongated break between our two major segments because they air Their own commercials and public service announcements and other things so please be patient with us as we take this elongated break and Take this time not only to write questions for our guests Vince and Samuel Ward but also take the time to write down the information provided by our advertisers because the More you successfully patronize our Advertisers the longer they are likely to advertise on Iron Trip and Zion radio and their advertising dollars are what help Keeps us in existence in addition to the generous donations of those of you listening.
So our email address again is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and Vince and Samuel I forwarded to you a question from Brad in Houston, Texas.
He actually asked two questions and I thought I'd forward those questions to you to your email addresses so that you could look them over during the station break and Have time to think about them when we return from the break so that you can answer them.
And sorry, thank you. Got it. Okay, great and don't go away. God willing. We will be back shortly With Vince and Samuel Ward and more of our discussion on their experiences as missionaries in South Sudan and also their book The the pursuit of glory.
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So please mention Chris Arnson of iron sharpens iron radio. We also have a few events that we've got to mention before we return to our guests Vince and Samuel Ward in Regarding to their experiences on the mission field in South Sudan and also their book pursuit of glory.
First of all coming up tomorrow August 2nd through Saturday, August 4th fellowship conference New England returns to the Deering Center Community Church of Portland, Maine and my dear friend Mac Tomlinson of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas Is one of the key figures who spearheaded this annual conference and he is also one of the speakers.
He is a pastor at Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas and an author and he will be joined by Pastor Tim Conway Pastor Jesse Barrington and Pastor Nate pickowitz. Pastor Nate is also an author in addition to being a pastor and All four of these men have been guests on iron sharpens iron radio.
If you would like to register for this conference go to fellowship conference New England calm fellowship conference New England calm and then Coming up in November the Alliance of confessing evangelicals is having their annual Quaker town conference on reform theology.
The theme is the glory of the cross. It will be held November 9th and the 10th at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quaker town, Pennsylvania. And the speakers include David Garner Ray Ortlund Richard Phillips Timothy Gibson and Carlton Wynn.
To register for the Quaker town conference on reform theology I go to Alliance net org. Alliance net org. Scroll down to the Quaker town conference on reform theology and you could register there then coming up in January.
An event that I look forward to every year. This will be my third year attending and also manning an iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth. I'm speaking about none other than the g3 conference, which stands for gospel grace and glory.
Which is being held from Thursday, January 17th through Saturday, January 19th. And it's being held once again at the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia. Which is a suburb of Atlanta.
They are expecting between four and five thousand people to be there. In fact, perhaps my guests Vincent and Samuel Ward might want to urge every village ministry to Have an exhibitors booth there So that they will be seen by the crowd of between four and five thousand people milling around.
Just as I will be benefiting from God willing at the iron sharpens iron radio booth. The theme is the mission of God a biblical understanding of missions and their long roster. Includes John Piper. Stephen Lawson Vodi Baucom.
Conrad M. Bayway, who is my favorite preacher of all time. Conrad M Bayway is pastor of Kibwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa. And he's also the pet the Chancellor at African Christian University.
I've known him since 1995 and he is my favorite living preacher a Tim Challies. Will also be on the roster or is on the roster Phil Johnson the executive director of grace to you ministries the ministry of John MacArthur.
Todd Friel of wretched TV and wretched radio. And by the way, Todd Friel is my guest tomorrow on iron trip and Zion radio. So mark your calendar if you love wretched TV and wretched radio. He is my guest once again Stephen J Nichols who is the president of Reformation Bible College in Sanford, Florida the college founded by the late Dr. RC Sproul and Ligonier ministries and many other people are on this roster of speakers.
If you would like to register not only to attend but you could also register to have an exhibitors booth like I am Manning God willing go to g3 conference calm g3 conference calm and Then finally, I just have to ask you if you love this show.
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If you'd like to advertise with us Please send in your email The chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line and as long as whatever it is You want to promote is compatible with what we believe here doesn't have to be identical.
It just needs to be compatible with what we believe here. Then we would love to help you launch an ad campaign. Send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line. And that's the same email address that you can use to send in a question to our guests Vince and Samuel Ward Who are veterans of the mission field in South Sudan and they are also co-authors of the book we are addressing Pursuit of glory, which is a publication of Crown and Covenant publications a publishing house of the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America and we are now back with our Conversation that we're having with Vince and Samuel Ward.
And as you know, Vince and Samuel before the station break. I forwarded a An email from Brad in Houston, Texas who had two questions for you. The first is what was your best cross? Cultural relationship formed during your time in South Sudan and How did that impact you personally and you can both answer that question?
I will ask.
You go ahead with that question. Yeah, so around two years, I think before we left my brother and I we started the compound where we lived and Interacting with a neighbor boy. His name was Tang and I developed a pretty close relationship with him.
Think in terms of impacting me personally. It just gave me a greater love for the culture that I lived in in life at that time and Just time came in. 20. Mm-hmm. Probably best relationship was with someone called Jacob my Jack and when I first met him he was In a very dark place he was suicidal and And yet still clinging to the Lord.
And I began to disciple him. He became part of a church plant and began to lead the church and During that whole time just the the bond that was created or built Was really affecting. It wasn't so much That I was training him but it was more that he was going through such a dark and difficult time.
He was separated from his family and the whole process of getting his family from one end of the country to another When they were really caught in the crossfire of war and then seeing them reunited and Then moved to their home area Where they're now serving he's now a pastor and planting a church and training church planters.
So that relationship being built over many years from where he was in that dark place now where he is in In a place of deep trust in the Lord and seeing the glory and grace of God every day That I would say would be The person I think of the most or that.
Well, you you could also both answer Brad's second question. What was the greatest challenge you face? And I assume he meant faced while church planting in South Sudan.
Sure, I'll answer that so Church planting somewhere around the world and it's always Where the challenge is with the men? Finding men who are faithful. Available teachable you've heard maybe of the fat acronym there.
I use the five C's so they need to be converted. Have Christ-like character. The the commitment to Christ and his church. They need to have the competency that that grows through training and then also to Be changeable so have that teachability to to continue that relationship that you know.
There's always someone who's training them and and that they're accountable to and so finding men like that is rare. And that's the case around the world. And so that's always the greatest challenge. The extra challenge is cross-cultural discipleship and leadership development but I just through perseverance by God's grace seeing Some men that are shining brightly as stars in that place.
I.
Alliteration when they were giving.
Yeah, yeah, well if I see FAT, I think it's pretty common around.
Germans and Oh, by the way, thank you Brad in Houston, Texas. Please give us your full mailing address there in Houston. So that CV bbs .com and ship you a free copy of our guest book pursuit of glory and also.
And this goes for our other listener that I believe was a first-time listener. I think I forgot to mention. Not only are you winning the book pursuit of glory? You're also winning as first-time questioners a free new American Standard Bible Compliments of the publishers of the NASB and also CV bbs .com.
We'll be shipping that out along with your book the pursuit of glory. We have another first-time.
Questioner.
Bet let's see Mater M-a-t-u-r. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly major or matter from Houston, Texas as well. The question is what was your greatest success during your time in South Sudan?
Well, the good success would be always success of the gospel spreading and being glorified magnified and That is through the airwaves. I would definitely say having a radio station in our partnership with a huge breakthrough in the kingdom of light shining in that darkness and.
Would just say that the the success can be broad like that. But also can be an individual just seeing the transformation through the gospel and in many people's lives. Especially the women in our village.
We see how they are. Their their love for the Lord and and their commitment to the church. It's so run so deep and and you see how far they've come from, you know. Being drunkards and violent women and now being so gentle and peaceable.
It's you know, we can only attribute that to the success of the gospel in their hearts and their lives. But also there's a school that was started and to see the success of Christ winning the hearts of these young children and Digging deep roots in the gospel and being built up in in Christ through their education.
It's very discipleship focused and That just gives so much joy to my heart when I see those children whenever I visit.
Great. Well, thank you. Matter or mater. And once again, excuse me if I'm mispronouncing your name. Well, obviously must have at least mispronounced at once because I pronounced it in two different ways.
Please give us your full mailing address in Houston, Texas so we can also mail you a free copy of pursuit of glory and in addition to that since you're a first-time questioner a Free New American Standard Bible and CV bbs .com.
We'll have that shipped out to you as soon as possible. We have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania. Who wants to know among the conversions that you experienced while in South Sudan were most of them nominal Christians can being converted to true born-again belief in Christ or was there also a Competitive number of Muslims that you witnessed come to Christ.
Yeah, so I would say a good number are people who perhaps thought and heard the gospel and and We're thoroughly converted. In terms of the Muslims, they're a minority in the area. I built relationships with people that are coming from Sudan and Most of them are business people when they come down and I set up shops there.
So built that relationship with some especially young young people from Sudan and and there have been some that have come to faith. But again because they're a minority population in the area they're there.
They have been few and the majority are the people from that area the Dinka people and and most of them having some some Perhaps background in the church when they start to attend one of the churches that planted in the area and come to faith so I would say half would be Considered Christian before and the other half would be.
Coming out of a Dinka traditional now just one other question of my own you were mentioning before the prominent the prominence of violence in the area where you were ministering as a missionary. Were these predominantly these violent people those who were professing to be Christian or the Muslims?
No, they would not be Muslims that the Muslims in the area because they're a minority what would not. Dare to they would be overcome. So you mean there are crimes that Muslims will commit there in the area as common in in urban areas, but the violence.
At all levels you have domestic violence. It's very common for men to beat your wife you have violence with drunkenness people who get in fights in the market or With other men or they they start to shoot their guns in their drunken state and then you get full-blown violence in certain areas of Sudan where it's a war zone and it's very dangerous where.
You won't find missionaries. It's just a.
War-torn.
Area where you have the government forces fighting in the rebel forces.
Now when you have these these nominal Christians firing guns and being violent is there any Equivalent to a tribal police force or anything like that in the area that does anything about it. Or do these people typically just get away with it unless their fellow fellow tribesmen.
Restrain them in some way. There is a government in place with police force and in the military and and in certain places they're very disciplined other places less disciplined and. They try to enforce the law.
It's not always a just system but you do have you know people being arrested for for crimes and.
Small.
Domestic or local violence being quelled by by these police or military forces. You had asked a question whether they're coming from Christians again. I know I think the people that are in those violent Situations they're not they.
They might think that they're Christian either, you know baptize in the Catholic Church but obviously.
There's no fruit in their life. All right, that's the last wipe. That's why I use the term Use the adjective nominal Christians. Sure, exactly, but just so that our listeners won't especially if they tuned in late they might be thinking immediately you're talking about Muslims because there are stereotypes that Especially those in the West have that Muslim equates violence, but you have many people who profess to be Christians who are just as violent as Muslims are and And again, I I use the term profess to be Christians Meaning that they that the the outward Verbiage does not necessarily reflect any inward reality.
And we have Gordy another listener in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania. Gordy Who asks which culture did you find most challenging in your walk with Christ? And I I'm going out on a limb here and speaking for Gordy because I don't know specifically what he means by that.
But I'm assuming he's including in Canada. I don't think he's only Talking about the Sudan he might be but I'd like you to include Both places when because it's interesting you you can have More of a difficulty reaching religious people who are even From a human standard wonderful citizens of the community where you live.
They may be wonderful neighbors wonderful friends wonderful blood relatives. Sometimes they are the most difficult to reach with the gospel because they react with ambivalence or Disinterest to what you're saying or they may even think that they don't need a Savior or Think that they already have one because they think that their lives are just fine and dandy.
Sometimes you might have a more difficult time than actually getting into a heated a verbal challenge or confrontation with somebody who is From a from a culture that is far different from yours and is actually, you know More perhaps interested in hearing what you have to say Even if they disagree with you, but is what I'm saying makes making sense to you.
Sure, yeah, and I can think of the two cultures so in South Sudan I would if you compare the two evangelism and church planting in South Sudan generally is much quicker and easier in a sense than it is in North America.
Because people are it's a new South Sudan is it's almost like a last frontier with the evangelical faith. And then now I would say even though a need for a reformed Reformation of a lot of these churches, but you you really see a hunger for the Word of God.
There's no opposition to it. There's an acceptance to it right away. And if there's good teaching you will have a strong church.
When we come back to Canada, you'll find what you're describing there where there's a hardness of heart. There's Despondency a lack of interest. There's very little hunger for the word here in Canada at least let me speak for Canada and.
There's an open hostility and and that's that's a huge difference. You know, they're in South Sudan. It's welcome the Word of God and missionaries in here. It's it's it's an antagonism against the gospel.
Well, thank you Gordy. Since you live so close to Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service cv bbs .com On North Hanover Street in Carlisle, Pennsylvania instead of having that mailed out to you Please stop by there.
But but this is the caveat here. Our dear sister Danielle from Crown and Covenant publications just mailed the books Out today that we are offering so they won't be there yet. I would give it a week before you stop by cv bbs .com to pick up your book there that will be waiting there for you.
So please be a little patient on that or call Todd and Patty Jennings at cv bbs .com Before you go there to make sure that the book has arrived. So I just wanted to give you that little caveat before you race down there to pick up your free book but thanks so much for contributing such a great question Gordy.
And Continue to spread the word about iron sharpens iron radio there in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania and beyond. Let's see here. We have Brandon in Franklin ten, North Carolina. Thank you for your ministry.
You probably don't remember me. But we met briefly at the g3 conference, but actually his question has nothing to do with the.
Interview today, so I won't read that on the air. But thanks for writing in Brandon. We're going to our final break right now and If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.
Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence. If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
Don't go away. God willing. We will be right back with more with our final half-hour of Vince and Samuel Ward and their experiences on the South Sudan mission field and also their book the pursuit of glory.
Don't go away. We will be right back. God willing. Listening to Christian radio can be a big gamble. Spiritually, even many of the major Christian networks that include excellent biblically faithful teachers on their lineup Sadly often also include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics.
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By your trumpets iron radio. Here, I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan, but if you go Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer. But not the type that typically comes to mind.
Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently, he wrote a book titled consider the evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the forward. Dan also has a master's degree in theology. Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.
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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man. If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church.
We are a reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts. We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do Than how men view these things?
That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostles priority. It must not be ours either. We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and To be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth.
And love. If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area Please come and join us for worship and fellowship. You can call us at 508 -528 -5750. That's 508 -528 -5750 or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons Worship songs or watch our TV program entitled resting in grace.
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Charles Hedden Spurgeon once said give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains. Proves that he has no brains of his own.
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And don't forget please to continue praying for the founder of solid ground Christian books Mike Gadosh. Mike is going to be undergoing very serious and complicated and delicate Open heart surgery and that God willing will be happening very soon tomorrow afternoon.
Mike is going to Gainesville, Florida To meet his surgeon and to schedule his surgery. So please pray about every element within this process not only the Selecting of the surgeon this the the selecting of the date the actual surgery itself, please pray that the Lord carefully guides the hands of the surgeons involved the great physician of all Jesus Christ if if you would pray that he would raise Mike up from his hospital bed a Stronger man a far stronger and healthier man physically than he's ever been In years and also more importantly even that he is Stronger and healthier spiritually and a better ambassador for Jesus Christ as a result of the trial that he is experiencing.
So, please pray for Mike Gadosh our faithful sponsor over a solid ground Christian books. We are now back with our guests Vince and Samuel Ward. Oh. We got disconnected.
Don't know how that happened. We're gonna have to go to Another station break until our guests call us back. I don't know how they got disconnected. But if you are listening Vince and Samuel, please call us back and we will be hopefully Connected with you right after these final messages, hopefully from our sponsors.
And again, I apologize to our Our listeners for this unfortunate mishap here and when you're running a Christian radio station all by yourself. This can be even more frustrating. There's no engineer on the other side of a window that's going to be taking care of all this.
I'm doing it all myself. So, please be patient with us and don't go away. God willing we'll be back after another brief station break.
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7 1 7 6 9 7 1981. Or visit solid rock remodeling comm that solid rock remodeling comm. Solid rock remodeling bringing a new life to your home. Are we joined again by? Vincent Samuel Ward. Yes, sorry with that we had a power failure.
Oh, wow. Well, I'm glad that you are both back with us and Let's see here. We have we have a couple more listeners who are already waiting to have their questions and asked and answered by you. We have BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania who asks especially of Samuel.
Samuel it seems to be from what you have said that the culture shock for you was returning to a more modern society in Canada. I Was wondering how you are holding up now and how much you may still long to return to the Sudan.
Yeah, it was it was a pretty big of a shock called I the missionary in the future. In fact, I was there just Few weeks ago in the future. I hope to go and forgive me for asking this if you've already said it.
But how old are you now? I? Am 14 years old. Oh, wow. You're a very mature young man. I had no idea you were that young.
You're handling yourself extremely well, in fact better than many of my guests about three three or four times your age. Let's see here we have. We have an anonymous listener who asks. I am praying about becoming a missionary myself but I was wondering what your list of Words of advice might be to somebody who is contemplating such an enormous step in their lives.
I'm assuming there should be Some very serious things involved in somebody's life before they make such a move. There must be also certain character traits and other things that you would believe are most profitable for one entering into an Enormous issue like going abroad with the gospel.
So if you could please give me some advice before I make this final step.
Great. It's my pleasure to Encourage this brother or sister. Sending a call to the mission field. I I would say that You first of all to pray right to be completely abandoned to the Lord's will. Because if the calling comes to you, it's going to keep you on the field if you will face so many challenges and so many temptations to.
To.
Give up and to be discouraged but through prayer in a life of a prayerful faith Cultivated here before you go. That is essential. So the second thing would be to be Very very much integrated in a local church be under the authority of your elders to receive the support of your elders and to have their Prayer support and their their counsel so that when you're sent out you You continue to have their shepherding ministry of you.
And so membership in the church and and being very active in the church ministry, whatever you're doing here and in on this side of the mission field is is foundational. It is a preparation for you and your ministry there on the mission field and I would really Encourage you strongly to find a good training That is available.
There are various training institutions or schools that are sometimes longer shorter before you go to the mission field so that when you get there you're well equipped and.
Look online and and you should be able to find those now. You try. You train missionaries. Don't you with every tribe?
Every village. I'm sorry. Yeah every village. Yeah right now. I'm writing a Missionary curriculum, it's specifically for South Sudan missionaries. But in our denomination, I've been involved in training.
Missionaries going to the field. Why don't you tell our listeners something more about every village. Sure every village.
Started in 2000 it was initially called aid Sudan and with the change of the country and No longer Sudan they changed the name to every village and over the years it's certainly grown In their focus in and now they're focusing primarily on three different ministries.
You have radio water so drilling water wells and sustaining them and then Sending missionaries to South Sudan. So the village being based in Houston, Texas only being focused in South Sudan. You can get more information every village dot org and Find out more.
Every village dot o RG and we apologize folks. We're getting some feedback here out of the blue. Not sure why that's happening. But thank you anonymous and if you give me off the air, of course your full name and mailing address you have also won a free copy of Pursuit of glory and that will be shipped out to you as soon as we get them here from Crown and Covenant publications and that will be shipped out by our friends at CV BBS Dot-com.
Thank you very much for asking such an important question. In fact Let me ask you a question some people might think That if you are initially interested in the going on the mission field a foreign mission field and if you back down from that or to change your mind or whatever that you are somehow in sin, or you are a second-class Christian or a third-class or fourth-class Christian as a result of this Decision not to go abroad on the mission field.
But that is not the case because not everybody. I mean everybody is called to be an evangelist in the sense or even a missionary in the sense that we are to be Proclaiming the gospel boldly to everyone we meet.
And we are not to be ashamed of the gospel. We're not to hide our light under a bushel. We're not to be Monastery Christians where even evangelicals can hang out with only other evangelicals who agree exactly like they do and they they get their aluminum siding or their vinyl siding from the Christian guy and they Only go to the Christian bookstore and they only do this and that with Christians and they isolate themselves.
But I remember and I'm of course I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the quote in front of me but I remember a memorable quote by Martin Luther or A story about Mount Martin Luther that involves a quote where a man who was a cobbler Asked Martin Luther if he should uproot his family from Germany Leave his cobbler business behind and and to move abroad with his family to become missionary.
And I don't know if it was because Martin Luther knew the personality and character traits of this specific cobbler, but Martin Luther's response to this man was I Suggest that you make a good shoe and sell it at a fair price.
But but obviously you know, obviously this is a wonderful and sacrificial and Beautiful and glorious thing for for Christians to have the heart and compassion to reach the loss of the gospel to become missionaries.
But it is not for everybody. Am I right?
Mm-hmm. Oh well, I. As you said the call to preach the gospel to make disciples is for everyone and the question is where you know. When it when Jesus right go and make disciples. You you you need to seek that very place where God is calling you to be and to make disciples.
It could be the very place where you live in that neighborhood or it could be to the end of the earth. And so Every Christian is to be open and abandoned to do whatever the Lord Calls them to do in in any place in whatever vocation.
Every vocation is spiritual is to give glory to God.
Great. Well, I want you before we take any other listener. Callers. I'm seeing callers. I'm thinking back to Years ago when my he's to have live call and a live calling show. I take my questions by email.
Now before I take any more of our emailed questions I want you to have five minutes of time uninterrupted where you can summarize what you most want to Leave etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before we go off the air.
No, we don't have that much time but each of you could have two and a half minutes or so.
That God is Faithful, that's really the emphasis of our book. If you want to get it from kind of covenant pursuit of glory you will get the story of a God who is faithful to us. It's a very personal story and.
It is.
Magnifying the Faithfulness of God in our lives we in deep valleys and yet God sustained us by his grace and We persevered by his grace until we saw the fruit. I think of Those who sow with tears and then will reap with joy.
That's a story of God's faithfulness where the sowing of seed through perseverance in the pain of toil in kingdom ministry will bring the fruit in the end and.
That's.
The pattern of life now that I now live that Work the kingdom work is hard. It requires a deep commitment and And faith in God and yet God is the one who upholds us to persevere until the end. And Samuel I'd say two things the first of which would just be how you can Bridge many walls that you with the beginning.
Amen, and I'm assuming that you would agree when you said there are. There is beauty in all cultures. You have to be careful how you define culture because obviously there are some people that will use culture in connection to the LGBTQ community.
Not to say that there are not Beautiful aspects of somebody's life no matter Where they are even if they are unregenerate. I'm not saying that that we should discount anything that is good and decent and honorable in the life of somebody who is even a part of that quote-quote community, but.
The the prominence of.
Pushing of cross-cultural Mindsets and activity today. It means something different than What we would say as I said even earlier in the discussion when when we are in a foreign land or even in a Community or neighborhood in our own land that's different than ours there may be aspects of.
That that is prominent in the ethnicity the ethnic group of that particular area or Some other type of Specific group of people that they have something that is a benign thing that is not dishonoring or offensive to God that we can embrace and enjoy and Appreciate.
I'm assuming that's what you meant by that that there's beauty in every culture.
Yes, certainly. That's a beauty in the culture that the culture is not completely beautiful. It's not perfect. There are many things that are opposed to God's law. And so it's not I think most cultures as you said, they're not wholly wrong in all the different aspects of them.
But none of them are perfect either and so when you can understand both sides to leave out.
Amen. Let's see here. We have an anonymous listener who wants to know. What is your advice? To help rid one's heart and mind of bitterness and hatred that can boil up against those of different religious groups that seem to Predominantly have a hatred for us and may even seek to cause us harm like some within the Muslim community.
I'm not broad-brushing here. I know that there are Good and decent Muslims as far as a human perspective is concerned knowing that no one Does good. No, not one, but how do we as Christians? Constantly bring ourselves to a point where we are trying to cleanse our minds and hearts of hatred that may Rise up in our own lives because we are not perfect.
We are still sinners, even though the we have been given the gift of eternal life. We still struggle while on this earth with sin, and I believe hatred can be one of those sins. Thank you for the caller.
Such an important question in Africa, especially where there's so much tribalism and hostility. It comes out of a heart of pride and and that's the root of so much of that hatred and anger and violence against others.
And When we look at the persecuted Church we observe how sure and really understand the gospel that they can forgive because God has forgiven them and that is the gospel message that Jesus Christ initiated in Coming to this world through Jesus Christ in giving of himself as one who who comes to his enemies.
You know while we were still sinners while we're still Christ died for us, and so we have that gospel message that is. Such a power and and anger I think all of us can experience that on a personal level.
Maybe someone in our life that that we need to forgive and the only way we can is Coming to the cross and recognizing what we have received in Jesus Christ and the forgiveness that we have in his name.
Amen, and we're out of time and I want to make sure our listeners have the website for crown and covenant publications. It is crown and covenant dot-com crown and Covenant dot-com and I believe you said the website for every village is every village org.
Am I right? Yes, that's right. Do you have any other contact information you care to share?
You could go to the Reformed Presbyterian global mission. That's I believe RPGM orgy and Find out about this mission that was started called push for Christ as well.
You'll get that in the book as well. All right, great.
And don't forget you can also order the book from CV BBS calm Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service and they have a lot of books from crown and covenant publications there as well. I want to thank you two for being on the program today so much.
I want to thank everybody who listened especially those who took the time to write in and I want you all to always remember for The rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.