August 1, 2018 Show with Vince & Samuel Ward on “Pursuit of Glory: A Disciple’s Journey with Jesus”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now here's our host.

Good.

Afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnz.

And your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this first day of August 2018. I'm so delighted to have on the program for the very first time a Father and son team. They are a father and son reformed Presbyterian veterans of South Sudan's mission field and they are co-authors of the book.

We are going to be discussing pursuit of glory a disciples journey with Jesus a publication of crown and covenant publications and. It's my honor and privilege to welcome you both for the first time ever to iron sharpens iron radio Vince and Samuel Ward.

Thank you so much. I think.

Well.

First of all, let's get a an Overview before we enter into the topic of your book and even enter into your personal testimonies of salvation which I always Have included or at least at most of the time I have included when I'm interviewing first-time guests.

But before that if you could give us an overview of the book pursuit of glory a disciples journey with Jesus. That crown and covenant has just recently published.

Sure. So this is a deal, it's two books in one two-thirds the length of the book and then my son Samuel wrote that the last third and for my part, I'm telling the story of my life my journey with Jesus and begins with my youth and how God saved me by sovereign grace and Then call me to the mission field and that was a long journey to get to South Sudan but involved equipping getting married and finally getting established as a team in South Sudan and serving there for almost 10 years and.

So.

Samuel can share a little bit just summarizing his his part of the book.

Yeah.

So my part of the book is I wrote it when about three years ago when I was much younger and it basically just gives An overview or description my my growing up years in South Sudan just to give people idea What what missionary life was like from the eyes of a child and so there are many different stories in there and just different experiences that I share about that can give a person a better idea of what with that.

Terrific well.

Now I would like to have each of your salvation testimonies in summary form. We typically ask our first-time guests to describe what kind of religious atmosphere If any they were raised in.

And.

Obviously, although many people don't recognize this even if you are raised in an atheist home you were raised with a religious Upbringing. It was just a very wrong one.

But but.

If you could tell us about that what kind of religion you were raised in if any and Also, what's what's providential circumstances did our Sovereign Lord bring about in your life That drew you to himself and saved you.

Sure.

Just maybe to situate our learners. Sorry the listeners there. I was born in Quebec City Which is the French province of Canada and my parents raised my sister and I in a home. Leading us to with a Christ centered Home Christ-like example bring us into to the means of grace in local church.

But it's interesting. I wasn't baptized even though my parents are Presbyterian. I wasn't baptized as a child because at the time they were going to an Anglican Church in Quebec City and my father was remembering how the minister would would say to the parents that that with baptism a child is regenerate and that was Not fitting it with histology.

But so I was not baptized as a child, but I. We moved to Ottawa when I was five and For those listening Ottawa at the capital of Canada.

And.

My parents found a Presbyterian Church that we attended as a family throughout my youth and As I mentioned in the book I was a young Driven boy seeking the prize of glory and in competitive swimming in particular as a as my main sport and Pursued that for 12 years and yet fell far short of my dreams.

And As I was clearly not achieving my goals. I Had anger with God and I thought comfort and distraction in other ambitions but also immoral relationships and Partying all to escape from reality the reality was that I was lost and Later in my teens.

I stopped going to church. I remember one day My mom asked me if I was going to come with them and I said no and she looked at me with real obvious loving concern and she said I fear for you that you are spiritually dead and She was right I was spiritually dead and though I thought it was alive I Assume that I was a Christian.

I conviction of sin. I would confess my sin I had seasons of my life where I would redouble my efforts to live as many young people say on fire for God But I was still bound in my own life carrying the burden of sin and I didn't know what to do.

I as though I knew I was shackled and I didn't know how to be set free In the summer of 1996 and I was in the middle of my university studies Where God regenerated me? He set me free and it was at a Christian camp a camp that I would go to every summer at this time I was a counselor and I was listening intently to the speaker and He used very simple terms, but he was describing substitutionary atonement double imputation all the doctrines that I now come to know and love and God opened my ears to hear the glorious gospel and Immediately coming back from that camp.

I Dove into Christian fellowship with the university University group there and I tried to find the most committed Christian I could find to latch on to it and I invited myself to a person's church and it was the reformed Presbyterian Church of Ottawa and the following summer I was baptized and Came into membership and That's where my formation began.

So that's that's the story of God giving me a new heart new affections for his glory.

Amen, and before we go on to Samuel's personal testimony. How was it that you specifically? Came to embrace by the grace of God. The doctrines of the sovereign grace of God. How did you come into reformed theology and even more specifically the reformed Presbyterian Church of North America otherwise known as yeah, or P and a or RPC na and the Covenanters.

They're also nicknamed. Yes. Tell us about.

Sure. Yeah, so it was interesting. I was a new believer at this Church that I started attending reformed Christian Church of Ottawa and I I was clueless. I mean, honestly, I grew up going to church, but I didn't know the Bible at all.

So it was those starting from scratch soaking in the good teaching there and that following summer I just been baptized. I started listening to tapes from the pastor.

On.

On tulips and and the doctrines of grace and so that was my first introduction to it. I was again soaking that in and At our church, there's a small seminary called Ottawa Theological Hall and that's where I received my theological formation and and was came under care we call it coming under care to student and Also going through the presbytery exams and being ordained in 2006.

So I receive all my Equipping and in my theology there at that local church in Ottawa.

Now.

How did the Lord how did you know that the Lord placed it upon your heart to? enter into the mission field.

Sure. Well, I finished University of Ottawa with a degree in physical therapy and I thought this was a great vocation to serve people but God really started to impress on me that I People that would really benefit from that kind of care in in Needy countries like Africa and so I took a trip in 1999 Summer mission trip and I saw how I could use physical therapy in hospitals there.

It came back from that Experience wanting to go back to Africa right away and so I put together a proposal to my elders saying I'd love to go back to Africa preach the gospel and They said well, what are you going to preach and you know, are you going to be planting churches when you when people get saved.

And so they encouraged me to go through the whole theological formation process at Ottawa Theological Hall and I really struggle with that advice because I wanted to go back to Africa right away, but I Submitted to the Lord Sovereign will again and it was the next day on my way to the clinic when God just impressed on my heart very strongly that God was calling to Sudan in particular.

These were people that I had met in Ottawa. I'd met also in Kenya on that trip and so God was giving me a people to serve and so over many years God directed it to a particular place in place in Sudan and That was the beginning of a ministry that we we launched formally in 2006.

Praise God. And Before we move on again unto Samuel, can you give us something a description about? The Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America that sets it apart from not only other Calvinistic Reformed and Sovereign Grace believing bodies denominations and fellowships and congregations.

But it even is set apart in certain ways from other conservative Presbyterians. Sure.

We trace our heritage back to the Scottish Covenanters, and I know there were splits there and basically when when Scottish and Irish Reformed Presbyterians settled in Canada and America and they formed themselves as Synod as the RPCNA and The distinction I would say in terms of how the other Presbyterian churches have As streamed in as well.

Basically, we believe in the mediatorial kingship of Christ. That's that term. That's very common within our Circles in that Christ is sovereign over church and state overall and.

Also.

The worship where we have Exclusive psalmody so singing of the Psalms. We have our own book of worship Where it is the book of Psalms without musical instruments and The preaching of the gospel. I think what had happened in the RPCNA in the early night 1900s.

There was some a liberal stream that was flowing through and.

Mid.

1900s it began to turn around. There was tremendous decline, but now there's a real emphasis on the gospel and discipleship in our denomination. So.

I praise God. I wasn't even aware that there was at one point a liberal turn in the RPCNA. I didn't know that.

Yeah, there was some moralism that was creeping in and There was definitely Significant decline. There were almost 100 churches in Canada at one point and now it went on down to one church in Canada and now It's revived to I think there's seven or eight congregations in Canada.

So. Um, yeah, definitely turning around.

And if I'm not mistaken, I think you're also one of the few Presbyterian denominations that Believes in total abstinence from alcohol. Am I right on that?

That death definitely is part of our history. Where elders were asked to make a vow of abstinence? But that was turned in the early 2000s, I believe. So no longer there and and so. That's part of the history, but no longer.

Present I see and.

I don't know if you even know this and I believe that is historically accurate, but I was told a number of years ago that the Reformed Presbyterians were the first A Christian denomination in the south that were opposed to slavery openly.

That is correct. Definitely part of our heritage they're involved in in the underground railroad and speaking out politically against slavery and. And very strongly so.

Praise God. All right now Samuel. We'd love to hear your testimony of course an abbreviated version of it on how the Lord got a hold of you and saved you and also Convicted you in the beliefs of what we call Reformed Theology.

Yeah, so all my life really big emphasis at an early age and I knew how much I needed to repent because of my sin and so there was a period of my life where every single sin I committed I was paranoid about, you know, repenting before God and I didn't feel like it was enough because I There were many times I can remember again because I felt like at that point I was not a Christian and I Needed to recommit my life to Christ by grace in Christ.

He was meaning that in the future. Honestly, I'm not sure when that happened, but it did. Another big back to Canada because I really did not want to move back. Are you saying we'll move back from the Sudan you mean?

Yeah, I'm moving back from South Sudan to Canada. Wow. You wanted to stay in South Sudan. Wow. I certainly did. Yes, so I was struggling with painful reality of leaving the mission field and I really just didn't want to submit to God's will Because of that, but I've been back three years now.

It was rather smooth transition and It's amazing because I'm not really fighting his will anymore. He's giving me the peace and resonation to that that you know, his will is best. He has the best plan for my life He knows it's gonna in my life and that God would use me for his name and his service.

Amen. And I've been. Please forgive me if you already said this. But Samuel were you born on the mission field or you just brought there as a young child? I.

Was born in Canada, Ottawa, Canada, and I moved to the make. Okay, so you probably don't remember anything.

But the mission field from when you were two to when you left Sudan.

Yeah, pretty much don't remember anything. Yeah. Wow.

Mission.

Well, I'm gonna give our listeners our email address if they would like to join us on the air with a question of their own. It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. C H R I s a r n z e n at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least.

Your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. And please only remain anonymous If your question involves a personal and private matter. That's. C H R I s a r n z e n at gmail .com.

We already have a question for the both of you. We have Barney in Perry County, Pennsylvania. Who asks. I am dying to find out exactly what the circumstances were like in? Southern Sudan where you were ministering on the mission field.

Please give us much of a vivid detail description as you can including. The culture and religion of those that surrounded you the friendships that you may have made and so on. And we could start with Vince this time and.

That that's a big question so we'll give her that will take us to the rest of the program I guess.

Yeah, so let me give.

A.

Bit of historical geographical. Picture here. So Sudan was one country since independence 1956 and then in 2011 Sudan divided in two with South Sudan now as a new country in the newest country and Sudan remaining Its own country.

And We lived in one location just near the border of Sudan and so that's what we know best in terms of what Sudan. So Sudan was and is. And We lived in a village. So if you can picture all around It's Savannah.

It's a lot of tall grass and trees. It has a rainy season where everything gets very muddy. But you have crops growing very tall like sorghum way over your head and other crops ground nuts peanuts.

Yeah, now sorghum is sorghum the crop that you get bubblegum from chewing gum. Oh I'm not sure actually, but that's what you said. The crop was I don't think so. Okay. Did you mention did that was mentioned?

Right sorghum. Yeah.

Yeah, you may get bubblegum for I'm not sure at all, okay, well I'm so yeah, yeah, that's okay, so. That's your staple grain and then peanuts as well for their sauce. They have fish they have rivers around.

And.

In terms of the the dry season that's really when it's very parched very hot. It gets into the 50s Celsius and 120 up to 120 Fahrenheit. So very dry and hot. It is it is a beautiful landscape. It has lots of beautiful birds and it can be a very beautiful place now.

The beauty of the place is really the people and that's why we were there. The Dinka people the ones we were working with they were very much Localized in that area isn't quite a densely populated area compared to other places in South Sudan and the Dinka tribe are the largest tribe in South Sudan about 40 or so.

And We learn our language. We learn their culture. We lived in a village like them for four and a half years in a mud hut with grass that's roof.

And.

If you were to pass by you wouldn't think that any Westerners live there initially and we we wanted to really integrate ourselves within the community there. And Samuel can maybe paint if he's better at painting pictures for than I am.

I think you've had but I think it's so that's very giving you a picture landscape of the place. Did you remind me of some aspects of that question again?

I'm sorry, you know your your. Your voice began to become garbled. Can you have to be at all? You have to repeat what you just said? I'm sorry.

Could you ask some of the? Parts of that question again some of the oh the the religion and.

Religion and elements of the culture of those surrounding you and if you made any friends and so on. Obviously, you must have made friends along the way.

Sure. Yeah other people there is Christian primarily in name. But only recently in the last ten years where people really have Come to true faith in Christ and in the large numbers before that it was people identifying themselves as Christian or just because that's really the church that was there for the last 50 years and The yet still practicing in their traditional religion and in that place the Catholic Church allows for witchcraft and For the mixing in we talk about syncretism and missions.

That's very much the case there in that area.

Yeah, I think that historically the Catholic Church has been involved in that for centuries and syncretism with all kinds of pagan cultures.

Exactly. So that's the case there but more evangelical churches have come in including the one that we helped the plant. They have brought in the true gospel and and that that has brought Reformation in many ways To the area and because we had a radio station that was reaching far and wide we have just hundreds of thousands of listeners and and Bringing the gospel every day morning and evening with with the programming there.

So it the religious Landscape has changed dramatically in the last ten years.

So so this would matter the surroundings wouldn't be so primitive that people didn't have radios and so on. I'm assuming from what you just said.

Well.

Initially very few radios Were found in the area. Only those who are rich and working with the government or with NGOs could afford a radio. But the organization that we partnered with called every village.

They have brought in Think some. Wow, maybe 60 ,000 solar power six tune handheld radios. So that that Cause that you know, if these radios are shared and listened to by several others that brings Tens of thousands of people listening to those radios and then also with cell phone companies coming in.

People can listen to the FM station on their phone and like right now. It's pretty much the case most adults in that area with now.

When you said that the the typical the average family Were nominal Catholic or somehow influenced by the Catholic Church when you were there laboring in the mission field in South Sudan Were there right nearby you remaining Roman Catholic missionaries.

Had they had banned in that area? Obviously if they were present they would become aware that you were teaching people that a Romish gospel was a false gospel and that I had to abandon any concepts of trusting in their own works.

Trusting in the merits of Mary and the Saints praying to Mary and the Saints praying that you were opposed to praying to images kneeling before images bowing to them viewing them as having Power infused in them somehow and Enable and enabled to create miracles.

All kinds of things that superstitions and the idolatrous teachings of the Church of Rome tell us about. That kind of conflict that may have existed there.

Well, there were Missionaries. There was one American missionary in another county. He left. And the ones that are really there are priests that are coming from Uganda or Kenya and and unfortunately, they've really given a terrible witness to the the Catholic members with Lifestyles of immorality and drunkenness.

This is the missionaries. These are these are priests. Wow again. And Kenyan priests. Yeah. Wow, and and you know, I think the good thing you mentioned a lot of what is part of Rome and.

And.

Because it's such a primitive or let me say undeveloped area. The churches that are started these Catholic chapels they call them. They will listen to the radio station and there we have so much more influence on on these catechists.

Then then the Catholic Church their priest or whoever because they might see them maybe once or twice a year. But they're listening to this gospel radio station and they model their preaching often after the men that we've trained in to be pastors and and are preaching on the radio and.

So.

There there aren't too many images in these these grass that chapels and. Though they will have celebrations for the former pioneer missionary of Sudan. His name is Daniel Kamboni. They'll have a Kamboni day, they'll have a Mary day.

They'll have their their heart doing their holy days. Let me call them but When it comes to the message that is preached there's been a tremendous influence and an open door to influence these.

These.

Catechists.

Well, we have to go to our first break right now. And by the way Arnie in Perry County, you have won a free copy of pursuit of glory a disciples journey with Jesus. The book written by both of our guests today of Vince and Samuel Ward.

Compliments of Crown and Covenant publications and also compliments of CV. BBS. Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service will be shipping that book out to you. So, please make sure we have your full mailing address in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

I'm sorry in Perry County, Pennsylvania. We're going to our first break right now. If anybody would like to get online and ask a question of your own. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris a RN Z en a gmail .com as always.

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Hi, I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern Time on WLIE radio www .wlie540am .com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions.

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Everyone needs a pastor. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen if you have a question for our guests today Vince and Samuel Ward father and son reformed Presbyterian veterans of South Sudan's mission field and co-authors of pursuit of glory a Disciples journey with Jesus then shoot us an email with Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. By the way, that voice that you just heard my dear friend pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church Denomination he is also the domestic missionary for Reformation Metro, New York in addition to being host of a visit to the pastor study.

My guests might find this interesting Vincent Samuel Ward, although Bill Shishko was a pastor for many years in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church denomination and still as a member of that denomination Even though he's retired from pastoral ministry.

He was the first person to introduce me To one of my favorite preachers of all time who happens to be in the reformed Presbyterian denomination. That's Ted Donnelly. I'm sure you're familiar with Ted.

Oh, really? Of course. Yeah, Ted Donnelly who? Ministers in Ireland, by the way, how's brother Donnelly's health doing these days? I heard that he was turning around for the better and improving in his health.

Yes.

He has definitely Improved significantly and and He has in a past year taken on more speaking engagements. But I can't tell you the update yet so in terms of how he's doing more recently.

Well, I just urge anybody listening to look up perhaps on sermon audio or some other Places where Ted Donnelly's sermons might be archived. He is an extraordinary preacher powerful preacher of the gospel and I truly enjoyed hearing him in person at The Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, Long Island, New York where I first met him probably back in the 1990s, I believe.

But.

Going back to our discussion. In fact, we have a listener.

Who.

Has a question about what we were already discussing regarding the the physical Description you were giving of the villages in the Sudan where you were ministering. We have CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York.

Who says. Did you ever start to reconsider your move to the Sudan from Canada when life was? Obviously a lot harder for you. Tell us something about.

The.

Physical conditions of the area including indoor plumbing electricity or anything like that. How did you manage to? Become so accustomed to living without these luxuries that we take for granted in.

In.

More modern societies.

Well, I would give credit to my wife Julie who was at home this mud hut. We did not have any Running water at all. Actually, we enjoyed not having it. We had water brought from the water well and put into a reservoir inside the house and Use jugs to pour into our water filter or dishwater basins.

So we enjoy the simplicity of living in that hut and the hard parts were the heat.

So.

During the dry season at times, you know, it just wouldn't seem to let out the let up. From until three o 'clock in the morning and then it would break for a little bit of cool time. Then it would get hot again.

So that was very on the body. The hardest part was the cross-cultural interactions and. That's the way ministry is that's what trains us the most and so it was compounding of the physical environment, but the cross-cultural conflict at times and and yet just trying to communicate trying to live at peace with people and.

Definitely the the people work was the hardest work.

Now when you say that the difficulty of living at peace with people. What was the hostility or tension involving? Well, we really love the Dinka people.

Yet they can't you could generalize to say that the Dinkas are an aggressive people. They.

Are an aggressive people. Did you say an aggressive? Yeah, okay.

Yes, aggressive. They they can easily be set off with anger and violent and.

Uh.

Yes, I mean if you look at what's happening in South Sudan today You'll see a lot of violence in the news and that is a real reality of situation South Sudan if someone has a gun and many most people do that's when people lose their lives and if it gets to that point of conflict and.

And yet we had just been living in the village we had some interactions with people where it got physical but generally it was just mostly at the beginning where it was just very hard to communicate because we're learning a new language and.

Later on and we really started to have some very strong advocates in the village to help us if there is any conflict. Especially with the church that was planted and. People who are now transformed by the gospel and renewed in their minds and and just a real dramatic transformation in in the community there.

Since the church was planted in 2010 or 2009 New people are serving with and so there's a lot of confusion and hurt that understandings in that area.

CJ you have won a free copy of pursuit of glory a disciples journey with Jesus. Please give us your full mailing address in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York. So that's CV. BBS comm can ship that out to you.

No charge to you or to us. And once again, we thank Crown and Covenant publications for providing these free copies for us. We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania. Who says we have heard a lot about the Muslim persecution of Christians in the Sudan?

Was this type of persecution going on in the area of South Sudan where you lived or was that in another area?

Well, if you look back at the history of the two wars in the latter half of the 9th 20th century You you definitely have very strong Persecution of Christians, so it was the Khartoum government. That's the capital Central government in the north that was sending jihad fighters.