Discernment and Judge Not with Todd Friel of Wretch TV/Radio

Andrew Rappaport's Rapp Report

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Discernment that is one of the things many people say they're very good at but sometimes the people doing discernment

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Need to have a little bit of discernment a lot of people say we should not judge

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And yet the scriptures seem to say that we should how do we tackle these type of topics?

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That is what we're going to discuss today with a special guest on the rap report Welcome to the rap report with Andrew rap report.

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We provide biblical interpretations and applications This is a ministry of striving for eternity and the

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Christian podcast community for more content or to request a speaker for your church Go to striving for eternity dot org

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All right. Well, welcome to another edition of the rap report and I will give a warning up front I have interviewed our special guests before and I know that it can go anywhere

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And either way you give whether through PayPal or patreon will give you those books for supporting us in This ministry and we thank you ahead of time for that and now on to our special guest

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He is none other than Todd frill of wretched radio He is recently the winner of the top

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Christian podcast award from the Christian podcast community Which were a part of and so we welcome to the to the airwaves

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Todd frill. Welcome Huh? I'm Exhausted the celebrating we've been doing around here

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You got a cake But we got a logo from you that's something

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I want to see you with a cake celebrating that's what I Know cake, but thank you for the honor

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Well, you you recently well, maybe now not so recently because you've written some other books since then you wrote a book called judge not and You subtitled it how a lack of discernment led to drunken pastors peanut butter armpits

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And the fall of a nation You you in your ministry you've often shown the issue that The church has some responsibility for the culture for the fact that we're not

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We're not rightly doing what the church should be doing and what often comes up is the question of you know

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Should we even be judging? I think the title of your book and all that would announce later that we're gonna be giving away five signed copies that Todd You know had provided for us

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But it says judge not with the not crossed out Mmm, should we judge is really my first question for you

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Well, according to Matthew 7 15, we are to be aware of false prophets. How can we do that if we don't judge?

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Romans 16 17 mark those which cause division contrary to what you have learned.

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How can we mark them if we don't do any? Judging Jude 3 contend earnestly for the faith in other words judge the bad

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Discern the good be a Berean who searches the scriptures Jesus said

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People tend to quote Matthew 7 judge not lest ye be judged But they forget John 7 which teaches us to judge with a righteous judgment

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So you've got two verses in contradistinction it appears Matthew 7 don't judge

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John 7 saying Judge so which is it and the answer is we judge rightly with the right attitude

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And we don't judge sensoriously with an attitude Nitpicking being a fruit counter for people.

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It's all Jesus commanded. Matthew 7 is all about heart Not whether or not we should be judging because if Jesus was actually claiming in Matthew 7 don't judge ever

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That is fraught with problems number one Jesus was making a judgment call when he said don't judge

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But then that's a good thing to do so he'd be breaking his command if it were intended to mean don't judge anything ever second

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Jesus in the same passage not only that tells tells us to judge People but he judges some people to be dogs and swine

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That's pretty judgmental Jesus tells us to judge with Righteous judgment if Jesus had contradicted himself

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Well, then we've got ourselves a problem with the Bible all saints We will judge the world first Corinthians 6 2

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Jesus was kind of judgmental when he called some Pharisees sons of hell blind guides

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Hypocrites whitewashed tombs and finally Andrew not judging is just bonkers. I mean if Jesus command were just a blanket

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Christians never judge then you're not gonna know what to order a chick -fil -a because you can't judge anything

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When I'm on the street you and I both do open -air evangelism when I'm on the street people say you shouldn't judge For effect what

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I always say is I think it's perfectly okay to judge I'm married and I just give silence for them to try to figure out what

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I'm talking about And then I say I judge many women inappropriate for me to marry and one that I said was appropriate for me to marry

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That's a judgment call. Of course it is we make a million of them every day what socks you're gonna put on so Jesus Wasn't commanding us to never judge or discern.

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It would be contradicting a plethora of Bible verses He's just telling us to do it with the right attitude

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And I think this is helpful Andrew because look I can be guilty of this We all can when it comes to discernment

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We tend to think that our amassed theological knowledge makes us smarter better You know,

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I can creep into our thinking but when we remember that if we know Anything about anything?

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It's only because God has revealed it to us and that should keep us humble and that is what

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Jesus is after when he says judge not Yeah, and you brought up the passage in John 7 which people don't realize that's actually

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Jesus Commanding us to judge that judge there in Greek is an imperative So when people say you shouldn't judge and they don't want to go to Matthew 7

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Here's John 7 were commanded by Jesus to judge and and you're right at Matthew 7

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He now is judging right after that. So he'd be contradicting himself well, this is you know, a lot of this falls underneath the umbrella of just lack of theological training and hermeneutics in the flock

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That they don't understand that scripture interprets scripture You don't just take one verse on a subject and say that's everything that we need to know

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You'll study all the verses so you can put together as a systematic theology

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So when somebody says something like what Jesus said that we shouldn't judge anybody, you know, it's just revealing

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They don't have much knowledge of the Bible Well hermeneutics, I think you agree as you have a new version of Herman who out

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Hermeneutics is so needed in the church today It's it's crucial

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Look the Bible There's a reason that the Bible was written the way that it was two of them at least number one

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It would be impractical to have a rule book to cover every situation in every

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Christians life who ever lived I mean how thick with that that would fill the whole universe because of all the scenarios and decisions

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So it doesn't give us a rule book second of all if it did so if the Bible were just like this

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Andrew you were wrong in that fight with your wife repent Okay, reading those types of things page after page after page would be tedious and boring

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So God gives us this exciting book that is filled with poetry heroism

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Historical narrative apocalyptic literature gospel biographies epistles to churches

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Proverbs and with that come some challenges Paul said that we need to be a

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Workman that was his instruction to Timothy be a workman. We don't let go and let

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God lead us in the interpretation We ask him for wisdom We ask him for his help, but we are commanded go to work on this and cut the word rightly

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So there are some skills that need to be acquired in order to do that with a book that I don't like saying it's complex and confounding because the perspicuity of scripture a child can get it, but we should have some tools that help us to practice the art and science of interpreting scripture

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That's right and and for folks that you know, listen persecute perspicuity means clarity

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Which is what he went on to describe and it is it's clear But whenever we do discernment

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What we commonly hear is you shouldn't name names So let me ask it first this way

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When is it appropriate for us? To name names of other

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Christians or people that profess to be Christians You know, it's that's a great question because quite honestly, you've got two extreme ditches on this

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Most evangelicals are allergic to naming names. That is just the biggest taboo you you can go on Christian radio and say something like There's this up.

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There's this teacher who's not teaching Truth he wears a white

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Nehru jacket Supposedly heals people has really wonky hair that makes

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Donald Trump actually go. Wow That's some bad hair and he flies around the world in a private jet and he lives in the

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Ritz -Carlton in Los Angeles because he's bilking people out of money and his name rhymes with gin

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Well, that's okay But don't ever name his name so there's that's one side of the equation the other extreme is

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Naming everybody's name about everything. So there are some rules that need to be applied

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To determining when we name names and as you rightly said in your introduction

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Andrew I see a lot of discernment ministries that never pause and take the time to say

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What are the rules of discernment before I turn on my microphone or write my blog?

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What are the rules? How do I apply them to this situation? And and that was the reason that I wanted to have you on because as I look at different discernment ministries

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And you you are involved in discernment ministries you are probably I would say the expert at that decision -making

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You train people and so many people don't realize that because there's a lot of times on your show You will say and if there's anyone listening, it doesn't listen to wretched.

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What is wrong with you? I mean look folks you may not need to listen to wretched radio to get to heaven, but why take the chance?

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Hey, I stole that from Erwin Lutzer, so That's funny.

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You know, he retired and that's kind of a bummer Yeah, he was he was I got to sit under his teaching every year when he'd come to Jersey I miss it

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He was driving I think I had a rental car with serious satellite radio and when I wasn't listening to the

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Elvis channel I turn on the preaching and I caught a service of theirs and I was I didn't know who it was and I was listening

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And it's like hey, this guy's good. Well, it was Erwin Lutzer You know, the thing is this on wretched you're constantly saying to people

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Something will happen. We don't know the details But you you're teaching people how to think through things and you're always telling people

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We shouldn't name the name because the details could be could be wrong what we've got so far

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You always wait until things are confirmed That's why I wanted to have you on because I think you're one of the experts basically, you and Justin Peters are the two that I would say are the the best when it comes to discernment ministries and you're doing this on a regular basis and Teaching people even if they're not picking up on it when we we should and shouldn't name names

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But I don't I haven't heard you actually Explain what's your thinking process on that? How do you go through and say?

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Okay, what's the line? We're not gonna go over this line because there always seems to be a stop a point where you stop yourself

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Because you don't want to go over a certain line So, when do you how do you judge when to name a name when not to name a name?

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Big big question But there are definitely rules and I don't think any of us can claim perfection on applying them because these situations they're complex

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Location how public it is who the person is what the teaching is So it's complex, but those are the very things that we need to stop and think about So we start with some basic knowledge

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Should I ever name a name and the answer to that is a clear yes Paul called out

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Phygellus, Hermogenes, Hymenaeus, Phyletus, Heretics.

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Paul did it and the Bible names names constantly it names the names of bad Kings it named

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Satan it uses Names, but not nilly -willy for no purpose.

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So what are the rules to this? Well, it starts with who are we talking about here?

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Let's say that I hear something that John MacArthur said that maybe sounds a little wonky.

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I am going to be Extremely cautious about how I approach this subject giving that man who has certainly earned it the benefit of the doubt

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Now if you tell me Benny Hinn said something wonky. Well, it doesn't Like no surprise and I can name his name because he just fits into the heretic camp

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Now there are people of different shades between John MacArthur and Benny Hinn. Who are we talking about here?

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Second, what is the issue? Is it a cardinal doctrine an essential of the faith or a secondary or tertiary doctrine?

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I need to think about that Third thing that I need to think about where are we at in the process?

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Has this been adjudicated? You know, we we get these cases online I just I just saw that a megachurch in Texas has some ministry youth minister

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Who is being charged with a sexual crime with some kid at the church camp?

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Okay. Do I know if that guy's guilty? No Do I know if he's in I don't know what he is because I don't know the case

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Furthermore another consideration is is this my business? I mean really do

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I have any business involved in a local church matter and activity? For the people who do blogging or they do a radio program

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The question that needs to be asked and answered is by talking about this and disseminating this news

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Am I making things better or worse? Do people really need to hear about a preacher in Paducah who is suddenly starts claiming to speak in tongues?

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No, they don't. I mean, no now let's just say somebody National that a story breaks on them if the story is widely

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Disseminated and it's you've got to use some some sort of metrics for that But if it's widely disseminated then you can talk about it.

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But if it's not don't spread this story Furthermore, let's just say that I conclude.

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Yeah, everybody knows about this. Everybody's talking about this That doesn't mean you have to talk about it.

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Ask yourself the question. Can I contribute something helpful to this? Because if you're just gonna do nothing, but yeah, how's about that guy?

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And what he did I should have known and I saw his sermon once you know I saw that guy at a conference and later, you know,

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I don't think he treats his wife very well You are not helping anything. The goal of discernment isn't just a hack at somebody

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It is to be loving the false teacher by pointing out to them their error It is to be loving toward the truth

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God's Word and it is to be loving toward the sheep that they don't get devoured by this wolf So if you're not able to do that Then you have no business talking about it and the last rule that I would say which really is the first rule to all of This Andrew and this goes back to John 7 versus Matthew 7 if I've got an attitude toward this teacher and An axe to grind my heart isn't

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Primarily consumed with a passion for the truth Defending God's Word the soul of the false teacher and the care of the sheep

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Then I get turn off your mic put down your keyboard and stop until your heart is right

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So that you judge with a righteous judgment. Those are the basic rules Those are some excellent excellent

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Rules and advice for folks that I I think it'd be good for most of us who would do podcasting

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Most of us who blog who do sometimes and not all of us do it all the time There are some ministries that that's they just focus on that But even for those of us who focus more on teaching but once in a while get into to that To think through those rules before we go out naming names

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Well, look this this this is an easy business and it requires that you maybe don't get to talk about the fresh news story today you might need to take some time to work through these things think through these things and Remember another rule of discernment is where is this?

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Where is it at this particular story or issue? Where is it in the process that I just read about it on Christian Post?

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The accusation for the for the the perverted youth worker in Texas Okay, is that all the information that I need to know?

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Where's is has he been arrested now? is the court gonna take a look at this to see if this is true because I Don't want to jump to judgment on this and we need to remember that these stories happen in Time and Andrew this now is where it gets trickiest when it comes to discernment

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This is this is hands -down the most difficult aspect of being a wise discerner

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It's recognizing that some stories require unfolding

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Let me let me let me give an example of that you hear about a famous preacher

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Who's who's being accused of saying something and for whatever reason your response is?

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Man, I kind of always knew it about that guy or yeah, that doesn't surprise me totally Hold on a second

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We consider somebody who is orthodox in profession to be a brother. That is our starting place

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We should hope for unity as much as we do for correct discernment So I want to be asking myself the question this guy

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Where where we where are we really at in the process? Okay, he said something I don't like I've rendered a verdict that he's guilty

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Now let's just say you you think he's guilty a month ago and it turns out four weeks later

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Then you were right You should have waited until that fourth week to know that you're right

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Because these we've got to let some of these stories play out a little bit

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Recognizing that somebody that we give a thumbs up to because our starting place Is there a brother that can change and that doesn't make you a rotten discerner?

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That makes you a mature Christian so remember and different Christians are gonna have different takes on this

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That just because you think that the person really is guilty of some sort of high crime

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Until you know that assume the best which means until there's something definitive

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We can have cautious fellowship wise and prudent fellowship depending on the issue

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Because we assume and we hope for the best that this person is Misunderstood got bonked in the head of the anesthesia from the dentist office hasn't worn out

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Something is there's got to be a reason for this. I hope for the best and I always try to give the benefit of the doubt to a

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Brother until it is definitive. All right, so something that most people don't want to talk about is that same scenario?

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You someone went out and said something what if they're wrong? What should be the response of the person that does discernment does something publicly and says something wrong about somebody?

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Well, it should be the exception rather than the rule. That's for sure. I mean we can all biff it

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There's no question about it. But if you're wrong, it's probably Because you've jumped the gun

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Andrew if I could Let me let me give an example of that last point

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I was trying to make because it's it's a complex issue When we judge and understanding that there's a process and until it's really clear.

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The person is a heretic We don't judge them as such right now one of the big debated issues is the social justice issue and here's here's what we've seen is that some people signed the

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Dallas theological statement other people did not and Some people therefore would say that everybody who didn't sign it that that's just heresy

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All right. Here's a question is Social justice a different understanding on that.

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Is that a cardinal doctrine? Second of all have we realized that different people in the social justice camp?

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That they have got shades of understanding. I have seen people throw perfectly fine

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Theologians underneath the bus Because they have a differing opinion on social justice and we don't even know for sure where that person stands

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We need clarity and look I there are guys that are being judged. I think Prematurely guys like Al Mohler is being prejudged here.

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We need more information We don't know where look if Al Mohler comes out and goes Muhahaha, I've been deceiving you all along.

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I'm a Marxist communist. Well, okay, then We've got something to judge but until then look at the man look at his history look at the issue and Remember that these things need to play out in time before we judge and that goes from Mark Dever It goes for David Platt Now there are some people in the social justice that are making it pretty clear that they have got some major Theological issues judge those but sometimes we need to wait for good brothers

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For all of the truth to be revealed before we render a verdict Okay, so so say

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I rendered a verdict and my verdict was incorrect. I went out and I went public with it.

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Yeah What should I do now that now that it's shown that I was incorrect about what should be the response of the the person doing

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Discernment that is wrong. How should they now correct it? Would you like to know what

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I'm doing right now Andrew? Sure, I'm practicing self -control

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Because I remember the first time I heard this analogy and I went whoo. That's profound and then the 17th time

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It's like oh stop it with this illustration. So I'm trying not to use this illustration, but I'm gonna

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This is this is the woman who is spreading gossip about somebody in the church

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Because she thinks she has the gift of discernment which to a lot of people means I just got a feeling about this and they practice

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No rules She's spreading gossip specifically about the pastor

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So the pastor calls her in and it confronts her with it

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Pointing out her error Then he takes her up the bell tower with a pillow and he cuts open the pillow the feather pillow

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And he scatters the feathers to the wind and he said that's what your lies about me have done

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You can't get those you can't round up those feathers again You have started a forest fire and it can't be put out.

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That's how destructive bad discernment and gossip is So I think we need to start up I read by remembering that that wow if we say things wrong about somebody

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You better work as hard as you can to collect those feathers and put out that fire

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You need to probably spend more time cleaning up the mess that you made then you did actually creating it

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We're talking about somebody's reputation We're talking about a ministry that somebody has been trying to build

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We got to do our best to clean that up and it's not just that hey look It looks like I got a couple of details wrong here

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But moving back on to the story about Donald Trump or whatever it is, that's not enough.

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It should be as public squared as the actual Accusation was yeah,

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I agree with that and I tried to illustrate what you said with your illustration there with my kids So I did a thing with him one night

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I gave him each a tube of toothpaste and I I said we're gonna have some fun You have 30 seconds to get all the toothpaste out of the tube and they both did it in less than 30 seconds

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My son being real smart. He went and got a knife. Just put it on the end and just ran it along the table

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Got it out real quick a little bit all over the table. And then I basically said, okay You got you have three minutes to get it back in now worked

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Wonderfully for my daughter because she kept trying to stuff it in at the same end It came out. My son looked at it for a couple seconds thought about it went.

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How did they get it in the first place? Ah, so he went grabbed a pack of a pair of scissors snips off the back end and start shoving

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Yeah That's a problem when you have an intelligent son, right? He just thinks outside the box

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But the the point is still there is that you can't get it all back in and but what did he do?

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He did everything he could to try to get as much of it back in and I would agree with you that we should do it if it's if we do some public, however, we sin, or You know say something wrong.

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I think at the same level it needed like when I do something I say something and I'm wrong

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Even if I like say I'm gossiping say say you and I have a conversation I gossip to you and I find out that I'm wrong about who the person

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I gossip with my Standard way of doing it will be to go back to you Even though I could like to save face not even raise it to you that I was wrong

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But if someone comes to me and corrects me now, I got to go to you because I sits on to you I shouldn't have gossiped in the first place, but That that's

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I kind of hold to us having that view You know and how long did it take your son and daughter to try to get the toothpaste?

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Unsuccessfully back in far longer than it takes to squish it out so The analogy works beautifully

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Yeah, well I had to change it because I thought that after three minutes They wouldn't get much of it in my daughter didn't get as much in my son

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Didn't get it all in so I at least changed the analogy to say that you know Once your words go out he couldn't get them all back even though he tried and it took a lot longer than that's right

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That's right. You know, here's here's maybe this is false underneath the category of discernment tip

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Sometimes let's say I've seen this with discernment ministries they disagree with somebody who has a reputation that is pristine and So they now suddenly they have some sort of a disagreement and how many times have we heard this?

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Let me begin the program by telling you how much I appreciate Dr. John MacArthur. He's been a faithful.

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I have benefited so much from him He's been preaching the by opening up a seminary and he's got the

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Masters Academy International the commentaries he's just been a wonder but Recently, he said hold the phone

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Henrietta And then it's a disagreement about this or that I'm gonna assume it's obviously a secondary tertiary issue

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Here's another option if you're in discernment ministry If you think that a high profile guy and remember

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We really publicly should only be talking about the national high -profile stuff and not finding the bad sermon from the past or in Wyoming or wherever We want we want to be discerning the big stuff

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So instead of going on and saying I really love John MacArthur and then taking out the machetes to hack him to pieces

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How's about just teaching on the subject? You don't need to mention his name. You don't need to go to war against a brother

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You don't need to besmirch him in any way shape or form Because we want to honor our brothers and sisters

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Well, however long they've been in ministry And so let's just say it's a disagreement on something that John said in a particular sermon

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Then you can just begin your radio program by saying hey, I want to talk to you today about this issue

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This is how I see things you lay out your case. That's why I think this issue is important.

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So Stay tuned for our next segment That is still teaching without bludgeoning our brothers who who shouldn't be bludgeoned

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So in other words teach on the subject teach on that teach the lesson We shouldn't have the the need or that great desire to have to name the name

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Because I do think there's an element where we want to name that name because it raises us up by lowering them

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Which is the issue? Well, that's that's that's a hard issue that we all have to what that's that's what you know

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That's what sarcasm does it brings somebody down so we can feel better That's what

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Jesus is after in John 7 judge with righteous judgment Take that beam out of your eye you work on your heart first and you can be a discernment ministry that teaches without always using names

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Especially with faithful high -profile brothers, I Okay, let me let me just give an example

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Andrew I'm going back to the social justice thing a very high -profile social justice person

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It talks about the role of the Christian and the church in government

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Okay, and I just I disagree with it. Do I need to say?

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Today this guy said this and while I respect him

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Let me just tell you where he's got this wrong. I don't need to do that I can just turn on the microphone and say hey everybody

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We're gonna talk about a tricky subject and there can be good Christians on all kinds of sides of this issue

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Let's talk about the role of the Christian in government and then teach your thing You can still teach without dragging everybody through the mud that is

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If more discernment ministries would just practice that Wow, it would clean up a lot of messes yeah would and I think

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I Think that a lot of what we end up seeing is people trying to build a ministry off of trashing other

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Believers, I think you know, here's the sad thing man. There's an audience for that Andrew Oh Click clickbait works.

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I mean it will I mean you you can say things and it's like well I just got to know that gossip and The reality is is because it works in the world the question the

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Christian should ask is should we be doing it? John Calvin said a dog barks when his master is attacked

34:10

I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent it's kind of sad these days that dogs understand what we don't and a

34:20

Note to pastors This is a very strong word from Jesus in John 10 11 through 13

34:27

That if you're not willing to protect the sheep from the wolves You're an interloper

34:34

Now does that mean he needs to talk about every single thing that's out there an evangelical

34:40

Christianity? No, it doesn't but if he is so gun -shy about pointing out really bad

34:47

Dangerous teaching Jesus said you're not really a true shepherd. So the answer to the your question should we be doing this is yeah absolutely

34:58

So we talked about a lot of this really does come down to her hermeneutics And so I want to give it some plugs here because you have a new version of the

35:08

Herman who is out Which is a great DVD set. I encourage everyone to go to wretched right now Okay, not if you're driving

35:14

But remember to do it later but go to wretched org go and get the

35:20

Herman who DVD series and I'm gonna Play a commercial from our guest actually about another product or another offering that we have at striving fraternity to help with hermeneutics

35:31

The good news is striving for eternity would love to come to your church to spend two days with your folks

35:39

Teaching them biblical hermeneutics, that's right The art and science of interpreting scripture the bad news is somebody attending might be really upset to discover

35:49

Jeremiah 29 11 should not be their life first to learn more go to striving for eternity

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Or to host a Bible interpretation made easy seminar in your area

36:00

I want to let you know about a special conference that you can attend with Justin Peters and pastor

36:08

Frank Mullis as the keynote speakers. The conference is the sanctification through Suffering conference.

36:15

That's right. The very thing. Most people don't want to talk about their suffering Most people struggle alone because well, they have depression or anxiety and the reality is they don't want anyone to know about it

36:26

But you don't have to suffer alone We have a conference designed to helping you

36:32

Understand how God can use your suffering for your sanctification or maybe that you can help others as They struggle with the issue of suffering.

36:43

Would you consider joining this conference? We'll have Justin Peters and Frank Mullis as I mentioned

36:49

We'll also have two breakout sessions by pastor Joe Suazo and for the ladies only

36:54

Colleen sharp from theology gals will be giving a Breakout session now, this is going to be held on March 15th and 16th at Chinese American Bible Church in Freehold New Jersey, it is $40 to attend but do not worry if you cannot afford it

37:11

There is a link for you If you cannot afford it or want to pay a different price if you want to pay the $40 or donate more

37:20

We are charging $40 to get the speakers out We're not looking to make money off this all the money goes to the speakers

37:26

But what we are trying to do is know that there's some who cannot afford to attend and yet they need the help

37:34

Some people have gone to striving for eternity org slash donate to just donate for this conference

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You can do that If you want to participate and join we're asking you give that you can get all of the details at striving for eternity org slash conference dash on Dash suffering

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So go search for the sanctification through suffering conference Make sure that you join us

38:03

March 15th and 16th in Freehold, New Jersey Because there are so many people that suffer and struggle alone and yet God can use your suffering or the suffering of others for the sanctification process and you by attending this conference can help others in their sanctification

38:23

Ding -dong Jehovah's Witnesses ding -dong Mormons Christian, are you ready to defend the faith when false religions ring your doorbell?

38:34

Do you know what your Muslim and Jewish friends believe you will if you get Andrew Rappaport's book

38:40

What do they believe when we witness to people we need to present the truth But it is very wise to know what they believe and you will get

38:49

Andrew Rappaport's book at what do they believe? Calm. All right, sir. So Todd that commercial with the knock -knock has been played so often

38:57

I know someone interviewed you at G3 on for the council podcast

39:02

And they started with the knock -knock because they heard it so much thinking you hear it so much And you thought he was talking about door -to -door evangelism

39:13

Could could we do something right now that is that that might make this eminently practical sure

39:20

We've been talking about bloggers or Podcasters who are so -called discernment ministries.

39:27

Let's talk about discernment in our local church Because we are able and we should look we're to rebuke and exhort and encourage one another or to teach one another

39:38

So so there's discernment that goes on in every Christians life. You don't have to have a blog

39:44

You're discerning in your church And there are some people in the local church that do it just as poorly as some of these national discernment ministries

39:52

So when do we judge things? These are slightly different rules

39:57

Then then the other these are additional rules. So this is a scenario

40:02

I included a bunch of these in that aforementioned book judge not Matilda is A Christian who is growing in holiness week after week you see her she volunteers in the nursery

40:12

She attends two Bible studies one Sunday. You pull into the parking lot of the church You overhear

40:17

Matilda speaking to her seven -year -old son rather sharply Do you? judge

40:23

Matilda and Bring it to her attention and I believe the answer is no

40:29

You don't why? It's a one -off at this point.

40:34

I remember these things happen in time. But at this moment, that's a one -off It's against her nature and who of us as a parent hasn't had a sharp word that they would wish they hadn't uttered to their

40:44

Child, so I don't need to judge Matilda now Let's say it's

40:50

Monday. I'm driving to work I pull up next to Matilda's van and I can't hear but I can see that she's just yelling at her son

40:57

It's Tuesday You call Matilda to ask her for her grandmother's pound cake recipe and before Matilda puts the phone to her mouth you hear a scream

41:06

Shut up Mommy's on the phone you brats Now it's

41:11

Wednesday at church You watch Matilda fiercely grabbed her son's arm as she rips him out of the pew to take him back to the church and to the back of the church to have a special chat now

41:23

Should you judge Matilda and I think the answer is yes, because you've seen now a pattern of sin

41:32

So I can judge Matilda and the question is how do I approach her?

41:38

Do I approach it like a sharply tongue discernment ministry? So let me just tell you about Ephesians 6 for you're not to anger your children and what you're doing is really sin

41:47

No, I don't Matilda is a sister so I can pull Matilda aside take her out to lunch and say sister

41:54

I have been seeing you grow in so many ways You've been such a great student of the

42:00

Bible I can see areas of your life Wow God is bearing fruit That's why I was kind of surprised to see

42:07

Several instances of you being pretty sharp with with your children. Are you okay?

42:12

Is everything all right? Can I help you? now that is a demonstration of the of the judging with righteous judgment taking the beam out of my own eye and Lovingly approach another brother or sister because you see a pattern of sin and not just a one -off goof

42:32

Yeah, because and I think a lot of times the pattern is what I mean That's what we're fruit judgers as someone once said and and you're going to see that after the pattern

42:42

Let me ask you this Because you you do even in your book judge not even in the the subtitle

42:49

It makes it clear that you see the churches in the role. You have this throughout the book What is the relationship between Being discerning naming names and the purity of the church.

43:01

Well, uh -huh Everything remember Jude 3 we are to contend earnestly

43:09

The church and God's Word should be held in such high esteem. That's one of our motivators to discern rightly now

43:16

I don't want to discern wrongly because what am I doing then then I'm besmirching the word and the reputation of the church but because I have such a high view of the word the church and God himself,

43:29

I Want to judge with righteous judgment because God cares about the church

43:34

God cares about the defense of his word In fact, I would say this to people who don't like the idea of judging anyone or anything to to let a person speak blasphemously on behalf of God I think

43:51

Could be esteemed the greatest sin a man can commit By saying I speak for God and then speaking wrongly.

44:00

You're like an Old Testament prophet who gets it wrong Why did God want them stoned because that person was representing

44:07

God and speaking? Falsehoods, so when I see a teacher on one of these prosperity channels who's you know, just steeped in this nonsense, ah

44:20

They're being blasphemous they are committing the greatest crime in the universe and if nothing else

44:26

I should care about their soul and Point it out and even name names in going back to naming names

44:34

Andrew there's a kindness in naming names to two different groups of people the false teacher and To the

44:42

Christian the pastor the teacher who is trying to be faithful When he hears somebody on some discernment program say okay, so there's this pastor and he said something like this

44:51

And this is what I think about it Whoa, whoa, whoa Are you talking about me?

44:58

Tell me please. I want to know because if I'm doing something wrong I want to repent of that it is a kindness to name names to the false teacher and to the true teachers in defense of the of the character of the church in God's Word Recognizing that false teaching is the highest crime a man can commit

45:19

Okay, so do you do you see the church having some responsibility in you know?

45:26

What you call the theological train wrecks and the you know, the the wonky

45:31

Evangelical movements is the is the church responsible for some of the craziness that we've seen because they lack discernment

45:41

Well want to be careful with that because To make a statement. I think about my own church

45:47

Bible based church faithful preaching down the street, you know, you've got The cuckoo house where they're you know

45:54

Swinging on the chandeliers and using motorcycles to jump over the pastor's head is my church responsible for that I I don't think so but when we

46:06

Don't preach to the sheep and warn them about such things That's where I think the church's primary responsibility is in Teaching guarding the flock and not dealing with every wonky church that's in town

46:23

So then we see a responsibility though with the discernment and the church

46:28

What role do you see the holiness of God playing in discernment? Well, I As soon as you ask that question three words come to mind for me and that is central interpretive motif

46:40

Every Christian should have one and I'm not saying that one is righter than the other

46:46

I think it is but I'm not gonna you know slander somebody because they don't agree me about the central thing

46:53

What is the what is the big thing about God? What is the big thing about how this universe is operating?

47:01

What's the point of all of this? So now I'm gonna come up with a list of attributes of God What's that?

47:10

What's what's the big thing here? All right. He's loving. He's kind. He's generous

47:16

He is mercy. He is righteously indignant Indignant he's all of those things.

47:23

So what's what's the big thing? And I think the answer to that question What is the central interpretive motif when

47:31

I think about God the answer is the threefold Holy Holy Holy That's that's

47:39

God is holy and his word is a reflection of him So when somebody mangles his word, they're mangling

47:47

God and they're marring his holiness So I want to see things the way that God sees them and that a besmirching of his word is a besmirching of his character

48:00

That is holy. Holy. Holy and I want to jump in and speak out and again

48:06

I will say this Andrew it is a kindness to the false teacher to do so and call them to repentance

48:12

It is a love of the false teacher It's a love of the sheep and it's love for the word and it's a love for God's holiness

48:19

So yeah, it does play a big part of this. Yeah, I think when your view is God's holiness you're going to have a different perspective because I think what happens in a lot of churches is

48:29

People want to just take the easy route out. They they root out. They don't want to they don't want to Make things worse create more of a problem.

48:37

So you think if they ignore a problem It'll it'll just go away And what you see is you have a sinning person in the church more often than not when no one confronts them

48:44

They continue in it. I always argue you you are not doing them any spiritually good by not bringing the issue to them because when you bring it to them if they're

48:55

Christian if they have the Holy Spirit and dwelling them they should repent of that But if they've gotten away with it time and time again, and then you bring it

49:03

They end up feeling like who are you to to judge me? Which ends up bringing up the next thing when we talk about holiness so often

49:09

I get and I'm sure you do too when people Will argue well, who are you to judge me?

49:15

How about you you're coming to me, but you're not perfect. And so do we have to be perfectly holy to be able to judge others?

49:23

Yeah, that's that's that's uh, you know, it seems powerful on the surface. I think it's called kind of an emotional tactic

49:31

I could say back to that person. Okay, do you parent perfectly? Therefore you shouldn't have children.

49:37

That's nonsensical Of course, we don't do everything perfectly And if we're doing it with an attitude of humiliness humility with an esteem for God's holiness

49:47

We shouldn't be coming across as smug know -it -alls. And so when somebody says something like that I see

49:54

We need an arbiter. We need a referee. Okay fair enough. I want to make sure

50:00

I'm doing this, right? Let's open up our Bibles. Let's see what God says about judging and figure this out together because we are commanded

50:07

Multiple times that's where we started this program Andrew. We're commanded to be right

50:13

Judgers, so let's let the Bible be the arbiter Recognizing that we are flawed.

50:19

We don't do this perfectly Let's help one another in this effort, but to say that we shouldn't judge because we don't nail it a hundred percent of the time

50:27

That that's that's just a contradict what the Bible clearly teaches I agree

50:32

So after I want to play a commercial after that I want to play a game with you one that makes it easy on you, but i'm sure you're going to love

50:42

I'm sitting here with bated breath Looking for strategies that will help you engage in meaningful conversations with members of the mormon church

50:51

Well, if so, take a look at sharing the good news with mormons a new book produced by harvest house publishers and edited by mormonism research ministries eric johnson and sean mcdowell

51:02

Sharing the good news with mormons includes 24 helpful essays from two dozen christian apologists scholars and pastors

51:10

Pick up your copy at the utah lighthouse bookstore or order directly from mrm .org

51:16

And you can also get that at striving for eternity .org in our bookstore. I am one of the 24

51:22

Authors of that which was a privilege to be part of it. My chapter in there is open air evangelism

51:27

And I did make a distinction between that and open air preaching But if you want to get that it's a good book

51:32

Even if you say well, I don't talk to mormons It's a good book Even if you just enjoy evangelism because you have 24 different tactics that people use to outreach to mormons

51:42

Many of them apply to reaching to anyone atheist or anyone else. So you get some good ideas from that nice thing is each chapter is about six pages long you can read any chapter in any order because I didn't get it access to any of the other chapters until I got the book

51:57

But todd, I want to play a game with you. And I know I know that you listen to the rap report every week, right?

52:04

Oh, are you kidding? I list actually every day Andrew Well, we do we actually do have a two minute daily, uh, which is only two minutes to the same broadcast seven times

52:16

So it's sort of like most of the songs we sing in church You know, here's here yeah, exactly the same the same sentence frankly this

52:26

I have to confess. I don't know that I listen to any radio or podcasts

52:33

Not because I don't like them or you or think that they're bad I just don't have time to do that.

52:39

I would love to do that, but I just can't yeah, I I if if I would Sleep normal hours.

52:45

I probably wouldn't be able to but Being that I don't sleep. Uh, I I have that advantage.

52:51

So I want to play game There's there's benefits to being a night owl, I guess or whatever

52:56

There's a name for people who can't sleep Well, it's insomnia and insomnia is different than like I just don't require a lot of sleep

53:03

I I get my wife actually made me promise that I would sleep every night When we got married and so I try to sleep at least three hours a night

53:11

She's been concerned and wants me to move it up. So i've been trying to work up to getting more sleep I just go to sleep when i'm tired wake up.

53:18

So I typically go to bed somewhere around two Three in the morning and I wake up at seven Wow, let me let me share this in an effort to run out the clock

53:26

So we don't have to play this surprise game of yours I rate comfort When we were you know, we were

53:32

I think we were in new york city We were out in the streets and it was like a really long day And and and we're like, okay, are we ready?

53:39

Are we done witnessing to people because it's like it's like shooting fish in a barrel in new york city They're just paintings everywhere that you can talk to and ray said winston churchill

53:51

I'm, sorry, what? I need to do a winston churchill I just sit in a chair like winston churchill did and I put my car keys in my hands

53:59

And then I fall asleep and then when my hand Lets go it drops the keys to the floor waking me up And it might just be a moment or two of sleep, but it resets my brain

54:12

So that I can get back at it And I was like, that's ridiculous ray

54:18

And then I tried it it works dude, have you ever just like a minute or two nap to reset your brain it's amazing

54:27

Yeah, there's actually a podcast I listen to called curiosity. It's they do a lot of it's a secular podcast they seriously believe in evolution because it but they actually did a show on on mini sleeps, but uh,

54:39

But I know you want to avoid the game. It's one where I have all the pressure so Okay, i'm going to introduce the game

54:46

It's time now to start the Spiritual transition game

54:53

All right, todd So here's how we play this game You are going to give me something whatever comes to your mind and that could be scary and I have to live

55:01

Unedited transition from whatever you give me to the gospel. My reason we play this game is because Most people are more willing to share the gospel when it gets into spiritual discussion and yet It's how do you do that transition?

55:16

Can we talk about? Football and get to the gospel and I argue you can My pastor taught us to do this as leaders in the church

55:23

We used to have to do this every week as he'd give us an object We'd have to transition either to a spiritual conversation or to the gospel

55:30

Because we can make gospel conversations. We have to wait for the lord to open the opportunity I believe with training and practice we can make every conversation into a gospel conversation

55:40

So that's why we play this game to encourage people that you too can make any conversation a gospel conversation and so We end up having people give me hard things to do that with and i'm sure todd will

55:50

So todd, give me anything that you're thinking anything that may be in your your office or or around you and I have to try

55:56

To transition to the gospel my dog charlie who's 14 years old Pretty much on his last leg is curled up in a ball sleeping soundly at my feet in my office

56:07

That's a peaceful thought right I mean When as dog lovers and clearly you're on the proper side of this you're not a cat lover.

56:14

You're a dog lover. So that's good It's like just upset at the audience but the reality is that that's a peaceful thought we we have

56:21

A dog sitting there quietly just curled up It looks peaceful and yet as you said, it's your dog charlie's on its last legs and even though at the moment

56:32

Charlie may look very peaceful and look like everything is at rest You know that there's things going on inside due to aging and failing of the body that's causing him to though He looks restful on the outside inside He's on his last leg

56:48

You know, we as human beings we do this a lot we we put a face out for others to think that everything is good and peaceful and Facebook everybody is great.

56:58

They're doing wonderful on facebook. They always present themselves as being great but inward They're struggling they're suffering and the reality is there's a cause of that suffering that what brought suffering about was the fact that Adam and eve our federal head rebelled against god and in that rebellion they

57:15

Brought sin into the world and that's why we suffer But god made a way of escape even though we break his law and we suffer consequences of sin god himself

57:25

Fully god fully man. Jesus christ came to earth and died on a cross to be a payment of sin that we could be set free

57:32

So that's how I would go from your dog charlie to the gospel So i've got this

57:38

Marble bookend that my brother gave to me after his trip to mexico

57:44

I'd have to see the marble bookend now It's it's shaped like a horse's head

57:53

Um, i'm trying to picture that see todd didn't want to play a game now he wants to go for more No, no,

57:59

I want to go for blood on this deal I've got a question for you though andrew

58:05

Yeah, and we're in a conversation with somebody. I I I fully Appreciate and endorse the idea of hey, listen to what people are saying

58:14

You don't wait need to wait for the door to open just listen and just walk through it But are there times when some things are said where it's like my segue to get from the natural to the

58:25

Supernatural from the physical to the spiritual realm would be so preposterous That I should just wait for them to say something else

58:33

Yeah, when i'm on the street, I usually continue going I had I was in san francisco My wife and I were talking

58:39

I started the conversation with a woman She had purple hair and the way I started it was not to you know

58:45

You have your book out what time is purple that people are giving away that someone else can get it wretched but she had purple hair and I just I started said

58:52

I go what is it you do that As a living that you can have that color hair.

58:57

It looks great You know and that immediately it starts on that. She's putting out there She wanted to talk about she was she's an artist does graphic arts well,

59:06

I started a couple different ways to figure out how am I going to transition and I thought

59:11

I just got to a point of how I can transition to the gospel after Three or four what I felt were failed attempts and all of a sudden a guy walks up and that was the guy

59:19

She was waiting for at the train station and so my opportunity was then shot, uh, so I thought and We start talking with him and you know

59:28

He's just like so what are you doing in town because I already said I was from jersey And I said well i'm here because i'm speaking at a christian conference.

59:35

Uh, we're talking about evangelism And so let me so I just transitioned at that point. I said, so let me ask you. What do you think about jesus christ?

59:42

so all of my attempts Failed but doing more of what I I did played this game with ray comfort

59:49

I forget what I gave him his object lesson, but but you know, you're you're marble horsehead

59:55

You know, he would just go speaking of marble horseheads You know, do you consider yourself to be a good person?

01:00:00

You know what? Only way you can do that. We can get away with that Yeah, but you know what though andrew look

01:00:07

I again I love the idea of being a good listener and naturally moving it into the realm of the spiritual

01:00:15

Love that but there's also we need to remember that if we don't have that perfect opportunity to do so There you can first of all

01:00:23

You can just bring it up out of the blue. Most people aren't going to stop and say hey, wait a second You didn't have an appropriate segue there

01:00:31

And you can also use events in the news. Hey, so and so died boy. I'll tell you that's tragic, isn't it?

01:00:37

What do you think happens to somebody after they die? Boom? You're there. It's almost easter

01:00:43

So it looks like there's some easter lilies in that store. What do you think about do you believe in easter?

01:00:49

What do you think easter is? Christmas is a great time Thanksgiving what are you thankful for and to whom do you give thanks?

01:00:59

Okay, and and andrew this is my confession I don't care how sweet my segue is sometimes they're good.

01:01:07

Sometimes they're clunkers Either way, I still have this apprehension inside of me.

01:01:13

It's like uh, here here we go I think that's the most difficult part of the conversation is simply moving it

01:01:19

From one realm into the other once you get into the realm of evangelism

01:01:25

That's a piece of cake And that's why that's why we try to play this game Each week or as many times we can we actually have a whole youtube videos of us doing it with folks because of that fact

01:01:36

People feel comfortable when it gets spiritual when it's on spiritual topics something we know and understand and so so let me uh,

01:01:44

Ask some questions of you. I want to be able to give you some time to talk about wretched as well But if you could go back in time

01:01:51

To before you started in ministry and gave yourself some advice What would that advice be to the young todd friel, uh to clarify because it's an important question

01:02:02

Are you talking about prior to my conversion? Well as a believer prior to ministry prior to ministry uh, well, um,

01:02:12

I would suggest uh, number one make sure you're actually saved, uh, because when

01:02:18

When I was studying to be a pastor, I wasn't So I think that probably is a good place to start if i'm going to go into ministry, let's make sure that i'm saved um second of all boy, i'll tell you what

01:02:31

I what I wish I had Grasped then and it's it was nothing but immaturity you know the added

01:02:38

The attitude that i've got this all figured out I should be the one who is telling everybody what to do because I certainly know everything

01:02:48

Watch your pride Get just jump behind somebody who's more mature and watch them and study them and grow

01:02:56

And then because you'll you don't want to have to take back a lot of stuff that you said as a as an immature person

01:03:03

So if you get if you get saved don't rush into ministry Give it some time work with your elders in your church to see if you have the qualifications

01:03:12

And then andrew i'm i'm not sure that this is going to be specifically to your point, but I was recently asked to write a letter

01:03:21

To a fellow who's who's being commissioned into ministry. He's going to become a pastor So I had to think okay.

01:03:27

What advice would I give to this soon -to -be elder? and I chose first timothy 3 8 which says deacons

01:03:39

Likewise be dignified Okay. So first of all, it's addressing deacons, but it says likewise

01:03:45

So the assumption is this also applies to elders be Dignified that is an aspect that I think if a young person can grab that and focus on that Wow, will that propel you ahead light years of your peers

01:04:02

And send you to places and into ministry opportunities. You never even dreamt of this doesn't mean you walk around with an ascot around your neck

01:04:11

With your nose up in the air undignified, no, it means you comport yourself like a godly man

01:04:18

Okay Let's just say so I can follow my rules of discernment. There's a guy on home and garden tv.

01:04:25

Do you ever watch it andrew? No Okay So you're a bad husband. So i'm watching the hgtv with the missus

01:04:33

And there's a show on it's a husband and wife And it's it's one of those, you know, we they get the house and they fix it up like every other show on the

01:04:41

On that network. Well, this guy Is just a clown. He just and I mean like a doofus just bad jokes

01:04:50

Acting immaturely doing things his wife is like quit acting like a child

01:04:56

That's my advice To somebody who's aspiring to ministry stop acting like a child

01:05:01

Model dignified be earnest be zealous in your studies be faithful to the word

01:05:08

Don't you know, it's it's at some point in life. You got to stop wearing a jersey with another man's name on your back

01:05:15

I'm, not saying you need to wear a tuxedo But dress like a man walk like a man act like a man carry yourself like a dignified godly man

01:05:24

And I fear andrew most pastors overlook that in an effort to try to be likable cool and attractive

01:05:31

And I think it has the reverse effect as we've seen the statistics Pastors when it comes to trust in the eyes of the american public.

01:05:39

They're right above another profession that begins with p Prostitutes, that's how people esteem it be dignified

01:05:48

So that when your sheep are in trouble They will call you

01:05:54

I find it hard to believe that somebody who receives a stage four cancer diagnosis is going to go

01:06:00

You know, I got to call pastor skinny jeans. He's got whipped cream tricks They don't call that guy.

01:06:06

They want the dignified earnest sober -minded man. So play the man and be dignified

01:06:13

So if you could change one thing in the evangelical church What do you think would be the most important thing to change what would you want to see changed in evangelicalism

01:06:23

Stephen furtick because of what he represents He he represents a broad swath of problems.

01:06:29

He represents the prosperity gospel He he represents the attractional model of church.

01:06:35

He represents increasing tinges of new apostolic reformation teaching

01:06:41

I would say what I would like to change Is all of these pastors who are showmen?

01:06:48

I would have them get out of the business and find a new way to make a living but stop besmirching the word of god with your shenanigans and your

01:06:57

Tomfoolery, we don't need gimmicks. We don't need gizmos. We don't need entertainment The gospel doesn't need your help nor does jesus christ

01:07:04

So if you don't take this earnestly and seriously and act in a dignified manner, it's time for you to go

01:07:12

We could wipe out all of those Pretend pastors that would make a pretty big difference in the evangelical church.

01:07:19

It would shrink it a lot, too Yeah, it would well, listen folks. We're going to be giving away five copies signed copies of todd friel's book judge not

01:07:28

Now the way we're going to do this is if you share this episode whether it be on twitter or facebook wherever put hashtag rap report that's wrapped with two p's hashtag rap report

01:07:38

And share this episode we will pick five winners that we will send to you

01:07:44

A copy a signed copy of todd's book. But with that i'm going to also ask you guys to help me out with something

01:07:51

Because some of you know the battle that i've had with justin peters when justin peters wanted to give me a set of dvds

01:07:58

Well, I wasn't going to do that I was going to pay for the dvds and many of you saw The the fun battle we had at shepherd's conference and you can go to justin.

01:08:09

I win .com I think it's dot com not dot org justin. I win .com and you can actually see

01:08:14

You can see me choking justin peters out and then you can see justin peters choking me out both of them are very funny

01:08:19

There's actually a video explaining the backdrop, but here's the thing Todd friel

01:08:25

Needs the same treatment so it is time for a hashtag just uh instead of justin.

01:08:31

I win I want all of you to donate go to wretched .org There's a donate button now

01:08:38

They don't let you put a thing in there like justin does where you could put hashtag todd We win that's we're going to call this one hashtag todd.

01:08:45

We win I want every one of you to help me pay for these books by donating to this great

01:08:51

Ministry wretched so I want everybody to go out be a gospel partner.

01:08:56

Don't just give a one -time donation I want all of you to go to the donate page And do that if you want to share you could share it and say hashtag todd

01:09:05

We win and put that in there's a reason it's not todd I win at todd we win because I have some other plans to up this game on todd

01:09:13

We want to get a ton of donations to wretched I want all of you guys to help me with this because him just giving us five books for us to give away to you guys

01:09:21

No, we we want to bless him more than he blesses us. So i'm begging all of you to go to wretched .org

01:09:28

Hit the donate button do not hit the one -time offering Hit the gospel partner one hit the one where you can donate month after month because well basically

01:09:37

They have bills month after month. So hit the one that says reoccurring donation

01:09:42

So you could be a gospel partner and then if you want to get the bragging rights over todd make sure you could you could hashtag and say todd we win

01:09:50

So he knows the books have been paid for Because we you know, he's just not letting me he purposely didn't have a booth at g3 so that I couldn't you know

01:09:59

I was looking for you. Todd what I told al I was going to do Was use my revert.

01:10:04

I was going to use reverse thieving techniques. I was going to try to slip the money in your pocket You know, well, i'll give you a hug, but I couldn't find you anywhere

01:10:12

I had the money the whole time just waiting for the time when I would see you I was gonna slip it in your pocket and then email you later and say hey, you got some money in your pocket

01:10:21

Okay two responses to you mister First that's mr.

01:10:26

Mr. Mr. To you. All right, mr. Mr. Mr. Mr. Rappaport You have much

01:10:33

For which you need to repent Number two, thank you. That's very kind.

01:10:38

It's that's that's it's it's very kind. It's just You're you're a sound ministry

01:10:43

So to give you five books that ain't nothing and for all of us to give you At wretched for the great work that's going on there

01:10:50

Uh, I like I said earlier, I do not know a better discernment ministry than wretched and I I don't

01:11:01

I and I think everybody should be listening to the podcast I think everyone should be watching on the on tv if they have access to it.

01:11:08

Everyone should go to the website And where you can get access to all of that because now it's it's all available

01:11:14

And so everyone should be doing that because we there's plenty of ways to learn how to not do discernment playing people doing it wrong

01:11:22

There's few doing it, right? Todd is doing it, right And that is why

01:11:28

I say you should be donating to them. You should be supporting them You should be watching and listening to what they're producing

01:11:35

That's very kind. Andrew. Thank you Well, thank you. Todd. Thank you so much for coming on. I I it is a great privilege just to learn from you

01:11:42

I I love the the six points that you gave us Uh when it comes to discerning, you know

01:11:47

Who who are we talking about? What is the topic? Is it a secondary issue? Has it been?

01:11:54

Like clarified yet. Is it hasn't been adjudicated yet? Is it my business? Uh, how's it how widespread is the issue?

01:12:02

And is my heart in the right place? I mean those are six great things We should ask ourselves before we post something on facebook before we write a blog before we do

01:12:10

Some what we might want to call discernment because sometimes it's really just gossip. So thanks for coming on Todd a privilege very important subject.

01:12:18

Thank you for tackling it. Andrew Anything that you want to share with folks about what's going on at wretched? Yeah, we'd like to give you up to 20 copies of our new evangelistic booklet.

01:12:28

What time is purple? We want to help and aid you in your desire to evangelize

01:12:33

Andrew, I think you can concur to get just to get started if you've been kind of gun shy about evangelism

01:12:40

Having good gospel literature and just handing it to somebody and saying hey, have you read this yet?

01:12:46

That look that's that's getting started And we'd like to help you to evangelize people by sending you up to 20 copies of what time is purple

01:12:54

It's a great evangelistic booklet. It's really nice So that you can give it away and if you happen to have a big outreach

01:13:02

I just received an email some good brothers, you know, David Grantham in Louisiana We sent these to them on a pallet they took just today they handed out 5 ,800 copies

01:13:15

Of what time is purple? So you got a big outreach particularly to a campus You go to wretched .org

01:13:21

slash purple you let us know about it and we will hook you up because we'd like to help you evangelize

01:13:27

That is such a blessing todd I I hope people will do that, you know, look 20 that's monday through friday giving one book away a day for the whole month

01:13:37

Which means they got to start buying more to give away next month and and the thing is is why should you become a gospel partner with wretched because You help them to do what he just said you help them to give away

01:13:49

Materials so you can share the gospel and others can share the gospel Yeah, our goal for this andrew is uh, we want to give away 1 million copies of this booklet

01:14:01

Uh, it's it's it's a beauty I mean the the graphics the colors there's graphics and illustrations on the inside It's like 42 pages long very readable

01:14:12

The kids on university campuses devour them They love these booklets and we'd like to give away a million of them

01:14:20

So if you'd like to be the hands and feet of this initiative just go to wretched .org

01:14:25

slash purple And we will get them to you lickety split So you're trying to get tom hammond on the uh on the new york times bestseller list by No, we have hired some new york agency to do that Like it's been done before Yeah, that's never been done before.

01:14:44

Uh, yeah Anyone needs that your mark driscoll's coming out with a new training manual on how to do it in the new york times bestseller

01:14:51

You know what? I just saw guess who opened up and he reopened or opened up his new church in well

01:14:57

It's anderson villa, south carolina. Do you know who i'm talking about? I'm guessing mark driscoll, but perry noble is back.

01:15:06

Oh, really? Yeah, well that wasn't very long No, he's been fully restored now

01:15:12

It was never qualified. How can you re -qualify him? He never had it in the first place

01:15:18

Just did not match the biblical qualifications for an elder. Here's some good news though My understanding is since he left new spring church

01:15:26

It's actually improved quite a bit and it's it's moving in a in a better direction

01:15:32

Dabo sweeney of clemson. You goes there the football coach And so my understanding is that it is

01:15:39

At least a church that is recovering from its former senior pastor and is moving in a good direction

01:15:44

Yeah, you know I met someone as I was traveling who started to attend there They didn't win before and they said that the church has been moving in a really good direction the folks who are there now really more solid

01:15:58

Yeah for sure is from what they were saying and uh, that's a good thing Yep. No, we we should we should rejoice in that and you know that that's kind of an interesting note perhaps to end on andrew

01:16:09

Sometimes we can discern good things And not always the bad That's very true

01:16:16

Well, thank you very much. Todd for coming on sir This podcast is part of the striving for eternity ministry for more content or to request a speaker or seminar to your church