Jesus in the Bible and the Qur'an Part 2

Well, thank you very much, since you were asking me. How do we connect with God, was the question that was asked. Well, faith has always been the mechanism whereby we connect with God. And that includes those who came before Jesus.

Justification by Faith Before and After Christ

Was there a way to connect with God before Jesus was born? Were those people forgiven? The biblical answer is yes. In Paul's epistle to the Romans, chapter 3, we are told that apart from the law, the righteousness of God, which is attested by the law of the prophets, has been disclosed.

Namely, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. There is no distinction. For all who sin, we fall short of the glory of God. But we are justified freely by His grace.

The redemption is in Christ Jesus. God publicly displayed Him as the perpetuatory sacrifice through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness because God, and here's the answer to the question, in His forbearance had passed over the sins previously committed.

This was also to demonstrate His righteousness in the present time so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who lives because of Jesus' faithfulness. How is Moses accepted before God? Because of his faith in the promises that Yahweh had given.

How was David made right before God? Because of his faith in the promises that Yahweh had given. But Yahweh has now entered into His own creation in His Son. And that is why Jesus then clearly makes the statement, unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.

It has always been faith in God's promises. In the old days, it was God's prophetic promises, the coming of that Messiah and His faithfulness as the creator God. Now that He has entered into His creation, can you imagine?

Just think with me for a moment. If you can get past any kind of problem in your mind, why do you believe that God could not enter into His own creation? He created it. If it was His purpose to enter into it, to demonstrate His love for a particular people, how is that beyond God's capacity?

And so if He has entered into His own creation, if Jesus is who the New Testament says He is, could there be any other way of salvation? If God had provided the means of a perfect relationship with Him.

You see, the Bible tells us that we are dead, that there is none righteous, no, not one. And outside of the grace of God changing our hearts, raising us to spiritual life, we can continue in our rebellion against God.

And I think everyone in this room knows, if you will examine your heart, you know that rebellion, that outside of the grace of God, outside of God's working in that, we cannot pull ourselves up by our bootstraps.

We do not make ourselves righteous and therefore earn God's acceptance. The only way is by faith in the promises of God. And the promise that God has given Jesus Christ will be saved. They will find Him to be a perfect and complete Savior.

There has never been a single person who has ever fled to Jesus Christ for salvation than a perfect source of peace with God. Proverbs chapter 5 verse 1 says,. Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God.

You know what that word peace is. In the Greek it's Irenae, but of course Paul was a Jewish person, so we know that's Shalom. And that is a Semitic root.

Salaam.

Not of fear have I done enough. Will I find God to be unmerciful to me on the day of judgment? Did I say enough prayers? Did I do enough pilgrimages? The Christian has peace with God because I did not stand clothed in my own righteousness.

I have received the righteousness of God, which is by faith in Jesus Christ. He lived the perfect life. He loved God perfectly. His righteousness imputed to me. My sins He bears upon Calvary's tree. That is how we are connected to God.

That is how we have peace with God.

That is the message of it.

A very short lesson that he shared with me during the prayer. Now, going back to the question of salvation. Jesus knew God totally and completely. And the point that I have been making through my life, the prophets not only know God, not only know how to connect with God, they are there to follow.

And your prophet is living the guidance of God very well. You just put your trust and faith in that prophet and you keep doing whatever you do and you just say that here is my savior. When we are talking about that they were given the understanding, recognized what Jesus was doing with them.

He was sharing with them the knowledge of God. Jesus based upon them decides their way of life. They are consistent with the understanding of your God. That is the ultimate sense if you are making.

As he himself pointed out in the interpretation of the Bible.

Okay. They do have that in terms of what role does it play in inspiring them.

At least freedom in and of itself.

No, it doesn't.

So, if there are differences among people.

Final Judgment, the Qur'an, and the Crucifixion

Now, reading the Bible and there is also proof that's where the verses from the Bible as Christians and Muslims. And differences that people will have within each faith tradition. For example, if there are Ahmadiyyas sitting here, if there are Shias sitting here, if there is another group like Baha 'is sitting here and they are saying that this is not what the Quran says and I am saying that this is what the Quran says.

Very clearly, we acknowledge what you said. So, we are referring the matter to God. He will be our judge as to, because none of us were present when these things were happening. So, there has to be, this matter has to be resolved.

And God says that not everything is. There will be a final judgment for all the assertions people are making about many different things. Just not about Jesus and the crucifixion of Jesus. The Quran says very clearly that they did not crucify Jesus.

They did not kill Jesus. And there is no way for anyone of us to prove that it was the other way.

Why a Christian looking at Surah 4 -1.

Takes certain positions at various, with each of them.

But given the fact...

Okay, I think we have to acknowledge one thing that there are certain things that the Quran is making claims about. It's not that the Quran is present in evidence for it. The crucifixion is one such matter.

The Quran is saying that they say that they have crucified Jesus. The Quran is saying that Jesus was neither killed nor crucified. Now, then there is a claim that you are making a judgment. But then, they did not kill him.

They did not...

...has eternally existed. Documentary way.

Judge.

Okay, the Quran... I mean, you yourself pointed out that the Prophet was not a person who had access either to the old or the new. That's a given. That's the way. The book written by him and what he revealed is misguided.

I mean, the Christians worship Mary and Jesus even today. Why is it that we have all these statues and images and people stand for Mary and Jesus and ask... You know, this thing should be...

This will be perfect because now you can begin a period of asking questions of James.

Would you like to come up here because I'm feeling like I'm so much taller. Would you like to take this?

No, no. But I'm going to say very quickly that as far as I'm concerned, I have made my... I don't plan to have any more questions of Dr. White. If he wants to continue to shed light or ask questions further, I give the time to him.

We can go on to audience questions.

Hi, everyone out there.

I have a pile of questions up there. If I don't get to everyone, then I won't apologize. I'm going to try to go to the questions that are most directly related to the topic and the shortest. Now, this one is for both.

Directly for both. So, I'll give you each about 90 seconds for a response. Beginning with Dr. Ascombe.

Sacrifice, Sincerity, and Approaching God

Connect with God.

Both Abraham and Moses.

Taught us the need for forgiveness.

Through sacrifice for sins. Are Muslims contradicting Moses.

By approaching God without sacrifice?

Would be fulfilled in a perfect way in a final sacrifice that would be given by one who would transcend the blood of bulls and goats. Of course, that becomes the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. There does...

It does raise one question, although it's a matter of contradicting Moses and David as not seeing the fulfillment of Moses and David's words. The fulfillment of Moses and David's words regarding sacrifice is seen in Jesus Christ.

They recognized that there was a need for the holiness of God to be satisfied in the punishment of sin. And that is one of the major differences between us. The Muslim believes that Allah can simply forgive a sin without his law being rectified, without his holiness and his holy standards being met.

And that is one of the fundamental differences.

Between us.

I would say that the prophets of the Old Testament are unanimous in their assertion of this necessity of a sacrifice and that that sacrifice then is fulfilled in the person of Jesus Christ for us today.

Imam Saeed, I have the same question.

At the same time, about 90 seconds,.

On whether the Quran.

Is contradicting. Muhammad.

I mean, is contradicting Moses because Moses said that.

We approach God through sacrifice.

Now, when we are talking about these sacrifices, we are assuming that all believers have the resources to offer the kind of sacrifices we have in mind. When we take the case of a person who has no resources at all in the form of sacrifices that are conventionally given, the Quran is not contradicting.

It is clear that even when you are making those sacrifices, you have to sincerely acknowledge your mistakes. Don't believe that simply by making a sacrifice your sins are going to be forgiven. You have to return to God in sincerity in addition to offering the sacrifice to be forgiven.

So this idea that simple sacrifices will make up for the sins that people have committed is not valid based on the Quranic approach. There has to be a sincere turning to God.

If you can stay right there,.

This next question.

I will begin with you.

On the next one.

How can one attain salvation.

On his own?

Say anything, achieve, that makes it necessary, that is part of our best faith and that is a very clear given when we are not saying that it has to be a perfect person for achieving salvation.

A perfect man attains salvation.

On his own when we all.

Come short of the word God.

The question seems to assume I think a biblical foundation that is the message of the imputed righteousness of Christ which is ours by faith. We bring nothing to God. We bring an empty hand of faith and that empty hand of faith then receives the perfect righteousness, the gift of eternal life.

If Muslims believe in Jesus.

As a prophet,.

Then they will be saved.

But his purpose is to grow the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and be conformed to his image. And that is why Jesus said in John.

They believe,.

Some of them believe that he is the Messiah. He before Abraham, the I am before Abraham that they picked up stones to spell him. The Jews would have loved to have as Jesus would have given them the kind of Messiah.

That they want.

It is a very rugged life and if any one of us wants to have a spiritual life, and it was that exclusivity, it was that not allowing.

One or four other ways.

That was so offensive. The only answer I can give Jesus said to Jews.

Who believe,.

We'll die in our sins for unless you believe that I am, we love the people.

What Jesus said.

To the initial question was,.

Can a Muslim be saved.

When they believe in Jesus.

As a prophet?

If very clear,.

Less,.

And then says, based on what Abraham says, referring to Jesus, and thus it was that Jesus always said,.

Verily,.

God does not worship him. This is the spirit path.

This is a good follow up.

To that question.

We'll have 90 seconds.

What is the meaning.

Of salvation in the Quran.

And is there a word for salvation in the Quran?

What is it?

What is salvation according to the Quran?

The word salvation,.

Of course,.

In Arabic,.

Is Nadab. And Nadab is a very vague term. It is a very clear and laid out term. That people who live the lives of faith and right,.

Will be rewarded,.

Not only to the extent that they engage in that, but they will be given even more. And those who refuse to listen to the guidance from God, and live their lives.

Very carelessly,.

And they will have to.

Face the reckoning based on what we ask. It has nothing to do with believing in.

Dr.

If the Injil that the Quran says was sent down by God, makes one's relationship with God dependent upon who Jesus Christ is and faith in him. And we are commanded to judge on the basis of that Injil. Then how can we rationally hold the Islamic position?

We have an inherent.

Contradiction.

Now from my perspective, it comes from the fact that the author of the Quran didn't know the New Testament, thought that what he was saying was consistent with the New Testament, but it wasn't. But the problem is, if you start with the presupposition that the Quran is the words of God, and that's not even a possibility, and you never even consider that possibility, well, then you're left.

With a contradiction.

And that's really what the whole issue is. I've been trying to emphasize that this evening,.

But I'm out of time.

Question for you,.

And this is a really good one.

Dr. White,.

If it is problematic for the Quran to misrepresent Christian beliefs,.

Such as including Mary in the Gahda,.

Why do you not find it equally problematic when the New Testament.

Misinterprets Old Testament Scripture,.

Such as Matthew 2 .15 and Hosea 11 .1,.

Out of Egypt,.

I have called my son. Hosea is obviously referring.

To the Exodus, not the new grace to escape Herod.

A fundamental problem in the question, and that is not understanding or recognizing the nature of prophecy, read those texts, and change them. Or if the New Testament said, Isaiah prophesied and came up with something that Isaiah never ever dreamed of, then you would have a parallel, because Surah 5 .16 is making exactly that kind of argument, something Christians don't do.

I understand modern Roman Catholicism and its teachings about Mary, and I've debated them on that subject, and I'll tell you right now, even they will say they are not worshiping Mary. I agree with you that it is completely inappropriate, but that's not what the Christian doctrine of the Trinity ever has been.

Mary has never been a part of it. The Holy Spirit is not just the angel Gabriel. So if you had a gross misrepresentation.

Like that,.

Then you'd have a parallel. What you're saying is, well, I don't think that the New Testament writer is interpreting the categories of Hosea in a grammatical, historical way and making an exegetical argument.

And of course, in prophecy, that's a given. Two completely different things. One, well, I don't like the use of this particular text. Another, well, Christians believe something Christians have never ever believed.

There is no parallel.

Imam Saeed,.

Would you like to respond? Brief response. The question is, Dr. White is saying that the Quran has a problem because it misrepresents Christian belief,.

But is Christianity misrepresenting.

The Quran? And the Quran has made references to a number of things that can be accurate. But what we know is that these Gospels were written considerably so late that these Gospels, when the Quran is basically laying out a principle, not confirming that the whole Gospel as it has been preserved is the Word of God.

Okay, next question is for you.

Can humans live a righteous life?

Can humans have faith in God.

Without the power of God?

Your entire death time is not that you have. So, in fact, when you believe in God, that you are really a very strengthful God,.

That you can live the life.

And you always ask God to be with you in a righteous life.

Consistent now with sin. Sons and daughters of Adam and we need to rebel against God. And so I think there is a fundamentally different view between us as to how sin affects us and whether we can, in and of ourselves, break free of power and its authority over us.

Next question for you, Dr. Weiss. Another good one here.

If salvation through Jesus is the absolute truth, then why didn't the prophets before Jesus preach that, especially if the relationship between the Father and the Son was there since the beginning?

Well, while the relationship between the Father and the Son was there from the beginning,.

It was not.

The Trinity is primarily revealed in the coming of Christ in flesh and pouring out of the Holy Spirit amongst the people of God.

And so, while we have.

Some glimpses of the Old Testament, certainly that tremendous text in Isaiah 9, a child will be born to us. Those are the normal terms. The very same Arabic root.

Found in the third ayah of Surah 112,.

A Yelut.

A child will be born to us.

Normal.