June 17, 2025 Show with Dr. Thomas J. Nettles on “Living By Revealed Truth: The Life & Pastoral Theology of Charles Haddon Spurgeon”

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Introducing Dr. Thomas J. Nettles and His New Spurgeon Book

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 17th day of June 2025, and one of my favorite guests to interview is back on the program today.

I don't know about you, but I absolutely love Christian history, and there are very few men who are capable of conducting an interview on church history as my guest today is capable of doing. And his name is Dr. Thomas J. Nettles.

He's a renowned Baptist historian and prolific author with 38 years of teaching experience, including his 17 years at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, as professor of historical theology.

And today he's going to be addressing his monumental work, Living by Revealed Truth, the Life and Pastoral Theology of Charles Haddon Spurgeon. It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Tom Nettles.

Well, you're very gracious to have me on, Chris. Thank you.

Well, it is my honor and privilege, brother. And can you tell us what is the number you have reached with the number of books that you have published?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe a 15 or so. I've been doing some commentaries lately. I have a commentary on 1 Peter and one on 2 Peter and 1 John and James and Galatians. And then there's going to be one coming out on 1 Peter and Ephesians soon.

I've been really just fascinated with the whole idea of biblical exposition. And I think Spurgeon's adeptness at that was one of the things that encouraged me. So those are some of the latest things. I did a book on revival that came out in January and published by Founders Press called In the Midst of the Years.

Oh, I've got to get a hold of that.

Yeah. So the Lord has let me stay active in that way.

Well, praise God for that. And, well, why is this book that you have written, which is a very hefty volume on Charles Haddon Spurgeon, why is this book something that you believed you were compelled to write?

Because as you know, there are scores of books in print by and about Charles Haddon Spurgeon. And from a spectrum of authors. And what are the compelling factors that said to you, well, there are a lot of things out there in print about Spurgeon, but there's some void that needs to be filled here.

And I have the information that will fill that void. And so what were the compelling factors here?

Well, of course, first, you have a publisher that contacts you and said, will you do so.

And so?

And so if you say yes, then you've got to come up with something to make sure you're not just wasting your time and duplicating what everyone else has done. So I mean, the premise of your question is really good and important.

But Christian Focus Publications asked me to do this. It was a series of things they were doing that it was supposed to be short, but it turned out to be big and they never asked me to cut it down or shorten it or anything like that.

They were willing to go with it. I think the thing that began to compel me in it and make me stay with it was just how much Spurgeon revealed about his ministry and about himself and about his times in the monthly publication of The Sword and Trowel.

And I had noticed that there were a good many of the works about Spurgeon, some of the biographies that did not consult his work in The Sword and Trowel. And so that became fascinating to me. It was like a month-by-month description of things he was dealing with and books he was reading and the polemical engagements he was having with the evangelicals of his day or the quasi-evangelicals, and of course, with the Baptist Union as he began to get into the downgrade controversy.

So those are things that sort of propelled me forward as I began to sort of trace out what he was doing in The Sword and Trowel. The sheer monumental nature of his output was just astounding to me.

Yes. And one of the things that is remarkable to me is that when I read Spurgeon, I get the sense that he is or was one of the most brilliant men I have ever read.

I agree.

And the thing that's interesting about that—well, makes it more interesting—is he was not formally educated, was he?

No, he wasn't. Of course, there was no opportunity for dissenters to get any kind of advanced education in England in those days. And so he began his education on just the regular grammar school, as we would call it, elementary school education, and finished a trade school, I think.

But he went to his grandfather's library and began to read the Puritans when he was really young. So his education came through the books that his father and his grandfather owned. And of course, he was reading deep theology and applicatory theology and experimental theology and all of these things from the time he was in his single-digit years.

So he was educating himself very profoundly in the theology of the ages. He taught himself languages, too, and so he could read some of the things that were written in Latin. He began to realize the importance of the patristic material and made himself deeply acquainted with that.

And so he was, yeah, not formally educated, but as far as the knowledge of the literature, the pertinent literature, I don't think there was one who was more profound and insightful in his own day than Spurgeon was.

Yes. And he was a thoroughgoing five-point Calvinist. And since he actually taught and lived out what historic Calvinism really is, there are multitudes of folks, especially from the independent fundamentalist Baptist circles, who hate Calvinism, who either totally misunderstand Spurgeon's position on it and think he was not a Calvinist, or they think that he was only a Calvinist on paper or something and that his heart got ahead of his head and he preached the truth, which they believe would be contrary to Calvinism.

But he was remaining true to the Scriptures and true to Calvinism in his pulpit and pen, was he not?

Oh, yeah, absolutely, and he didn't make any apology for it. I think there are two issues, two doctrinal issues that Spurgeon was very clear on that were so pertinent in our own day, and particularly as I was working my way within the framework of Southern Baptist life, and we were engaged in the conservative resurgence and the whole issue of the decline of the commitment to biblical authority that existed in the last part of the 19th century that sparked the downgrade controversy.

This is one of the things that attracted me to Spurgeon and how he dealt with that and what he said about inspiration and therefore infallibility and therefore inerrancy and so forth. Those were witnesses that I wanted to be able to highlight in light of what had gone on in my own theological environment.

And then, of course, we began to deal with the issue of the doctrines of grace and Spurgeon again is a witness to that, the intensity and the clarity that he had on those two issues that are always pertinent sort of drew me into this desire to know more about what he said and what he did and how he actually worked it out in pastoral ministry.

So he never separated his evangelism from the doctrines of grace. He believed that if you didn't preach the doctrines of grace, you weren't preaching the gospel, and if you weren't preaching the gospel, people would have a false understanding of what it meant to be converted.

So he was very strong on those. He would preach a sermon that would be directly on the issue of the atonement, affirming that Christ has died for his sheep and his sheep only, and dealing with all the words as to why it was necessary that we believe that, because if it's substitutionary and it's propitiatory, this means that there is a sacrifice that has been made.

Someone has already been punished and been put to death for our sins. Therefore, he would quote top ladies by him about payment God cannot twice demand, first at my bleeding, sure at his hand, and then again at mine.

That was deeply embedded within his framework. So you have to preach that if you're going to preach the gospel, and if you don't preach the gospel, then people will not be converted by believing the truth.

And so at the end of these sermons where he'd preach on election or atonement or effectual calling, then there would be an evangelistic appeal that was directly in line with that particular theological issue.

And so he did not see any necessity of compromising his commitment to the absolute sovereignty of God in salvation and a decretal theology set before the foundation of the world. He didn't see any contradiction between that and the mandate that God has placed on his ministers of the gospel to preach for conversion, to tell people that they're obligated to believe.

So that was something that was just so ingrained with him that he did not think that God would contradict himself. And so he felt perfectly at home in preaching the doctrines of truth and calling upon sinners to believe.

Amen.

Spurgeon’s Charity Toward Other Evangelicals and D.L. Moody

And having said what you did about Spurgeon's very staunch Calvinistic commitments and affirmations, he at the same time, from what I have read from his own words, had a very ironic and ungracious attitude towards those who did not agree with him on those very important matters.

In other words, he was not among a cult that still exists. And I use that term, cult, more as a description of behavior than of false theology. But there is a cult of Calvinists out there that believe that there is no one who has eternal life outside of those theological teachings, and Spurgeon would not have been among a group like that.

Am I correct?

Not at all. No. In fact, one person that he eventually came to have deep conflict with over the inerrancy of Scripture was a man named John Clifford. John Clifford was a general Baptist, which means basically an Arminian Baptist.

But he respected John Clifford when he first moved to London, and he even preached in his congregation, preached in his church, and had great respect for the way in which he invited sinners to come to Christ.

And at that time, Clifford was preaching the reality of the necessity of repentance and faith, substitutionary atonement, and then Clifford got caught up in modernism and began to reject the inerrancy of Scripture and some of those vital concepts of the gospel.

And so it was that rejection of those central doctrines that would make Spurgeon begin to have some fairly energetic interactions with those who did not believe those things. But he still would be kind to them, and he would try to say things about them in a way like he would talk about John Clifford in The Sword and Trowel, and he would use deflective language.

We hope that Dr. Clifford is not serious when he says so-and-so and so-and-so because he has had a good ministry and good influence. He would do that kind of thing, recalling the good they had done.

He also would say very good things about the Wesleys and would quote their hymns. And so he was not embattled about it. He was clear in his affirmation of the doctrines of grace, and he believed them and he preached them, but he was not embattled about it so that if someone was having a good and godly ministry, even historically in the past or in the present with him, he was certainly willing to call them friends.

And it was the evangelical General Baptist that came to the support of Spurgeon and some of the primitive Methodists that came to the support of Spurgeon in his engagement with the Baptist Union on the doctrine of inerrancy.

So Spurgeon, yeah, he loved the gospel and he loved people who were committed to it and those who were earnest in their desire to see people repent of sin and come to Christ. And he would not engage in any kind of exclusive kind of relationship, exclusivistic kind of relationship with them.

He even famously invited D .L. Moody to preach from his pulpit.

Yes, he did. And he preached in D .L. Moody's crusade there in London and wrote an article defending D .L. Moody in the Sword and Trowel when people were criticizing him. He wrote one defending him because the liberals were talking about how much D .L. Moody talks about repentance and faith in Christ and trying to get people to come and have faith.

And Spurgeon wrote an article defending the doctrine of justification by faith because he believed that's what Moody believed. He believed in substitutionary atonement and imputed righteousness. And he knew that people need to have that righteousness before they could be fit to stand before God.

And so he defended Moody. He was not someone who simply overlooked the inconsistencies that he found in some of the revivalistic movements. He knew that Finney had had a sort of a bad influence, but there were some articles in which he even defended Finney because of Finney's defense of the deity of Christ and his defense of the inspiration of Scripture.

And he knew that some of the crusades of Moody preceded cases in which there was sort of wildfire. Am I still on? I got a screen that came up. Okay. That there was a little bit of wildfire and false conversions, and he recognized that, but he also recognized that there were many true conversions, many additions to the church that happened in Moody's campaigns.

And so I think your characterization of him is exactly right, that he was clear and convicted on the doctrines of grace, but he loved the genuine Christian ministry and genuine Christian conversion. And where he found it actually happening, he would commend that ministry.

Well, I just want to read a commendation for this book of yours, written by our mutual friend, Dr. Tom Askell, who is pastor of Grace Baptist Church in Cape Coral, Florida, and also one of the leaders of the Founders Ministries.

He says,. What Nettles makes plain is that for Spurgeon, all theology is pastoral theology. I cannot recommend this book highly enough. It should be widely distributed by all who love the gospel of God's grace that Spurgeon preached.

Every pastor, ministerial student, and those who work to train men for the ministry should carefully learn from the life and labors of Charles Haddon Spurgeon as Tom Nettles elucidates them. Nearly everyone who knows of Spurgeon admires him for his great accomplishments.

Nettles helps us understand the theological underpinnings of those accomplishments. In doing so, the author, like his subject, has served the church well. And that is quite a powerful endorsement from a man of Tom Askell's caliber.

And a good friend of mine, so he could hardly fail to stay on my good side about that. Yeah, Tom is a very effective pastor himself, and I really deeply appreciate the commendation that he has given on that.

Amen.

Quite remarkable.

And there are quite a number of other very impressive commendations for this book as well. And we are going to be continuing our conversation on the theme of this book, Living by Revealed Truth, The Life and Pastoral Theology of Charles Haddon Spurgeon, when we come back from our first commercial break.

If you have a question for Dr. Tom Askell on this book specifically, or on Charles Haddon Spurgeon in general, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside of the USA.

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Spurgeon’s Development, The Child Is Father of the Man, and Thomas Moore’s Inquirers’ Counsel

And don't forget, cvbbs .com is now shipping worldwide. And we are back with my friend, Dr. Tom Nettles, and we are discussing one of his latest books, Living by Revealed Truth, The Life and Pastoral Theology of Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

Before we continue that conversation on that specific book, I want you to give a plug to a couple of other books. One is another Christian Focus publication that you authored, has a very interesting title, The Child is the Father of the Man.

And Donnie Morrison, over there at Christian Focus, he's been a dear friend to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio broadcast for many years, and he always provides free copies of books for every pastor that attends my biannual Iron Sharpens Iron radio free pastor's luncheons.

And this book was included among the free books that we received from other publishers, The Child is the Father of the Man. And this is obviously connected with Charles Haddon Spurgeon,.

So tell us about this. Yeah, well, it's a quote from a Wordsworth poem, The Child is Father of the Man. He loved Wordsworth just because of the way in which Wordsworth could draw ethical principles out of his observations of nature.

He knew Wordsworth was not necessarily an Orthodox Christian, certainly not a Calvinist, but Spurgeon loved to look at nature. He loved to see the glory of God in nature. He loved to see how there was a continuity and an integration of ideas that you could derive from nature into the character of God, the wisdom of God, the power of God.

And so when he found poems that would elevate those ideas, he used them. And so he would quote Wordsworth, and Wordsworth's poem starts, My heart leaps up when I behold a rainbow in the sky. So it was when I was young, so shall it be when I grow old or let me die.

The Child is Father of the Man. And then he talks about a natural piety that grows out of that. And so what my thesis in that book is that there were things set very early in the life and ministry of Spurgeon that did not change but expanded during his lifetime.

And so I start off each chapter with a statement about how this conviction developed very early, the statements that he makes about it, whether it's the doctrines of grace or whether it is being a Baptist or whether it's his view of Scripture or what preaching is or things like that.

So I deal with 10 different subjects and try to trace it out, how Spurgeon began very early in his convictions and then how they developed throughout his ministry. And he ended up with a mature and profound presentation of that same conviction.

So that's the reason for the title,.

The Child is Father of the Man. Well, I want to thank Donnie Morrison again for his generosity, for providing free copies of that fine book to everyone who attended the last Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon, and we look forward to receiving more books from Donnie in the future.

Absolutely.

Well, there's another book that is virtually unknown to the vast majority of evangelicals and even Reformed Baptists who share a nearly identical faith and theology and ecclesiology with Charles Aden Spurgeon, and that is an author named Thomas More, who was an elder at Metropolitan Tabernacle alongside with Charles Aden Spurgeon.

And you discovered this book, I believe, while searching the library there, if I'm not mistaken. Well, you could tell us more about it, but if you.

Could tell us about this book. Yeah, Michael Gaylosh published a book. Thomas More wrote a book on...

Do you have the title there? I don't have it. I am looking for it right now, but I know that.

The word counsel is in it. Yeah, he wrote a book about counsel, about how you discern the genuineness of a person's salvation experience. That's what he was really good at, and he wrote this book. And I was talking, I was at the Metropolitan Tabernacle, was going through a series of books that they have called the Inquirer's Books.

What they did is they had a series of men who would take these inquirers that came after the service, that would come up to the Metropolitan Tabernacle and would want to talk to someone about their conviction of sin and so forth.

And there were several of these men who did this. Thomas More was one of them. And as I was going through this, I was familiar with the book that Michael Gaylosh had published, and I knew that it was Thomas More.

And as I began to read these Inquirer's Books, his name came up over and over. And Michael had told me that he didn't really know who this guy was, but it was a really good book. And then it began to dawn on me that this is who it was.

It was one of these people that would take inquirers at the Metropolitan Tabernacle, would lead them through an understanding of what kind of conviction they had, whether it was something that was a gospel conviction or just legal conviction or whatever.

He would lead them into that. And so there was an abundance of these interviews. The person would write up a summary of the interview after they had talked to the person. They would have the name of the person.

They would have the address of the person. They would give a short statement about why the person came, and then they would give an evaluation of how the person was responding to this counseling session.

Sometimes they would say, I advise them to continue coming to church and hearing Mr. Spurgeon, or I advise them to go to a Sunday school class where they could learn more, before they would recommend them to go to Spurgeon.

But then sometimes they would say, I'm convinced of the genuineness of this person's conversion, and so therefore I give him a ticket. And the ticket was admittance to go have a counseling session with Spurgeon himself.

And so the book that we're talking about...

I have the title, by the way. I found it. I found the book, and the title is Counsels and Thoughts for the Spiritual Life of Believers by Thomas Moore. And Moore, by the way, for those of you listening who want to order this from Solid Ground Christian Books, Moore is spelled M-O-O-R.

There's no E at the end, and there's two O's. M-O-O-R.

Yeah. Let's see. I am looking for... I have it back here somewhere.

And then while you're looking...

But anyway... Yeah, go ahead.

I was just going to give our email address for anybody who wants to send in a question, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com gives the first name at least, city and state and country of residence.

Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Yeah. Here's a book called Wonders of Grace. This is original testimonies of converts during Spurgeon's early years. This is gathered from the inquiry books, and it's put together by a lady who is the wife of one of the elders there at the Metropolitan Tabernacle now.

And so she has gathered together these testimonies, and it's just really quite astounding to read through them and to see the thoroughness with which these counselors investigated the experience of those who would come and want to have an interview with Spurgeon.

For example, do you mind if I read a little bit of one of them?

Please do.

Now, this is a person named Joseph Laker, who lives at 29 Smirks Road, Old Kent Road. And here's the way it reads, a bookbinder was not attending any place of worship, but rather opposed to religion. When a packet of sermons preached by our pastor was given him to bind, he's a bookbinder, so he was binding some of Spurgeon's sermons.

He opened the packet with the intent to ridicule when some words caught his eye. Sinner, thou hast an immortal soul to save, says the word seemed three or four times larger than the others and was deeply impressed with a sense of sin, was induced to go and hear Mr. Spurgeon.

The first sermon was the treasure of grace, suffered much sorrow for about four months, was nearly driven to despair, sometimes a little light, or none, was darkness still, found peace in God through Jesus Christ while engaged in prayer during one of his dinner hours.

No concert room now, no playhouse, the word of God was his chief delight. The people of God, his best companions, wishes to be baptized to show his love to Christ. Then it says, I was much pleased with this case and with pleasure gave him a card, Mr. Rowe.

So Mr. Rowe was one of these inquirers, and that's the account that he gives of his talking with him, which is just one of those little highlights as to the way Spurgeon's ministry penetrated the whole community around there.

This is a bookbinder who was basically an infidel, and he was binding some of Spurgeon's books, and he saw those words, sinner thou hast an immortal soul to save, and it just struck him. So these kinds of testimonies are just really quite remarkable.

And who published that? This is Wakeman Press, which is an English press. It does a lot of stuff for the Metropolitan Tabernacle, and it is a book that is put together. Well, she doesn't actually put her name, but I know it's put together by a lady who has access.

Go ahead.

Does she offer a website?

Well, maybe Wakeman, Wakeman Press.

Well, I'll just look it up. It sounds like a fascinating book. But for anybody who wants to order the other book that we just mentioned by Thomas Moore, who was an elder in Spurgeon's Park Street Chapel in the Metropolitan Tabernacle, Thomas Moore, M-O-O-R, Councils and Thoughts for the Spiritual Life of Believers, go to solid-ground-books .com, solid-ground-books .com, type in Thomas Moore in the search engine, and remember, it's M-O-O-R, and that will come up.

You may have to scroll down a little bit because there are other things on the list before that.

Hannah Wincole is the lady who put together these testimonies, W-I-N-C-O-L-E.

Great. Well, going back to our main topic, your book, Living by Revealed Truth, the life….

May I interrupt just one more time?

Sure.

The very first one in here, the testimonies, is about a man named Charles Stapley, and it is by Thomas Moore.

Wow. Wow.

Yeah. Here's an example of how Thomas Moore dealt with it. Charles Stapley is, by trade, a bricklayer. Isn't that amazing, these people that would come to the Metropolitan Tabernacle? He never attended a place of worship regularly since he was a boy, generally spending his Sunday mornings lounging about the streets with some of his fellow workmen until the public houses were open, to one of which they would usually adjourn before they went home to dinner, the remainder of the day being spent in idleness.

One Sunday about six months ago he had lounged about as usual until dinner time and then slept until tea time but was quite at a loss what to do with the evening. At last he said to his wife, I think I'll just go and hear Mr. Spurgeon.

He did so and determined to go again the next Sunday. On that occasion the subject of the sermon was the divided heart. I felt that sermon, said he, and from that time I longed to be a different man. He is deeply convinced of sin, though without a saving knowledge of Christ.

He had come, he said, to be instructed. It was most pleasant to see the meek childlike spirit he manifested and his emotion when told of the suffering of Christ. A card for Brother Hank's class was given to him, Thomas Moore.

So he wanted him, he didn't believe he was converted, but it's obvious the spirit was working on him so he gave him the card for a Sunday school class that he could go to and have regular instruction that way.

Isn't that amazing?

Yes. I've got to get a hold of that book. I will contact the publisher if I could locate the contact information. Going back to Living by Revealed Truth, the Life and Pastoral Theology of Charles Hedden Spurgeon, please explain the title Living by Revealed Truth.