Revealed: Cru's Internal LGBTQ+ Documents

We are live now on the conversations that matter podcast. I am your host John Harris. I'm gonna jump right into it after a quick word from a sponsor and actually the sponsor I'll just put it this way.

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So wanted to plug that I appreciate the sponsorship and you know, I also just think that We need to support more Christian businesses who are Unapologetic about these issues because let me tell you the organization we're going to talk about today is very popular in fact I was part of it at one time and they have compromised in my opinion deeply on an essential Issue and I want to I should say fundamental issue.

It's a fundamental issue you can't get this issue wrong and yet crew has gotten it wrong and Just to give everyone a little bit of a background I've been tracking crew stuff for quite some time. I Started I think it was in 2019.

I watched almost their entire conference. Everything that was publicly available including interviews that weren't public. They were, you know private interviews that happened at the conference that crew put out and I put a big montage together of all of that.

It was a woke fest and then I had gone back and looked at some of their 2017 staff conference videos and it was a woke fest and.

I.

Was one of the instrumental ones I suppose I could say there there were. It wasn't just me but I but I was one of the people that was bringing a lot of this stuff to light and bringing attention to it and.

Since then and this is obviously a very brief history because we need to get into the primary sources here soon. There were people in the organization of who Didn't like what I said didn't like what others were saying about them and tried to do damage control and there was a group Within crew of staff who were concerned who put together a great document.

Just.

Chronicle chronicling where there was compromise on social justice matters and it was then leaked by some leftist blogger I think it was in England if I'm not mistaken and From my understanding and I don't know that this is across the board but at least in some places those who were part of that document were essentially punished for.

Being part of that effort to try to purify crew and there's a lot more I can share that I want to save for future episodes, but Crew has not really self-corrected. They have done what a lot of organizations I believe have done which is they're still on the same path.

They're just going underground with it more so and that's part of what I'm going to be showing you today. My just my suspicions about this were confirmed by the documents that I'm going to be sharing with you to some extent and I'll show you this.

I played this on the podcast just to open it up once before but I want to show you Today, this is the strategy that I'm talking about. This was from I believe.

I.

Think it was a year ago or so. It was a I think was their winter one of the winter staff conferences. But anyway, I listened to a number of the lectures and there was a few things here and there that were kind of woke but nothing like 2019, but then I saw this and And check this out.

Yes.

Free light. We all get free lunch tomorrow. Chick-fil-a Chicken will be in the house. The Lord's chicken will be here. So, okay, seriously though, seriously.

So.

We have one we have lunch for everyone, but there's two different locations. You can go to the lounge and grab it or you can go to the peacock terrace Which is a fun thing to say as well. The peacock terrace where we will have our oneness in diversity lunch.

Okay, crew has been on a journey really intentionally since about 2015 Exploring how we can experience more oneness and diversity throughout our organization. Okay, and the reality is is that has Personally challenged me a lot like it has put me on my own Journey to better understand who I am and how I view my brothers and sisters in Christ.

All my brothers and sisters In Christ. And I bet a lot of you have been on similar journeys over the last few years. I know this has been such a big topic. And so we are gonna meet together in the Peacock Terrace.

We will have lunch in there as well provided to discuss oneness and diversity in crew tomorrow.

Yeah, we know that this topic may not be new to many of you. This is the topic that you live at issues of ethnic diversity and cultural diversity. Are things that don't go away for some of us. Some of you guys might be coming into the lunch though.

And you feel super out of your depth. We want to say we want you guys to grab a chair. I want you to grab some Chick-fil-a. We want you to chat about your ethnic and cultural diversity or Journeys and diversity while you're there.

So the reality is though truly that we do need one another to reach the world for Christ.

Okay, let me just say there was one session that was not publicly available I couldn't listen to it and you can guess which one it was. It was this one so this is the thing that happened at Southeastern when there was a Exposure to what they were doing with social justice and you know, did it stop?

Well Students are no longer allowed to record in class. I mean, that's the kind of thing we see and we're in a phase right now Where it's not the fireworks. It's not, you know buildings being burned down and people on the streets.

It's the institutional phase. These things are worming themselves into Policies and deeper into the organizations and That's really the problem that we have before us right now. How do you fight it when it's entrenched when it has a hold and it does have a hold in crew.

We're gonna talk about one specific issue today, though. We're gonna talk about LGBT issues and crews their handling of you know, and again these college ministries, you know crews Mostly known for that.

There's going to be challenges unique challenges on a college campus, but how are they handling that challenge is the question? So and I should probably mention for those who are listening and not seeing what I'm putting on the screen.

Doug Meeks for $5 said former crew staff here and just contacted past two days with several crew staff about this document. So he knows the document I guess that I'm gonna show it. It's gonna be more than one document though.

I don't have just one. So let's start. Let's start here. This is Let's see. I don't know why it's not coming up. Can everyone see that? Yeah, I think they can see it now this is Compassionate and faithful and I'm going to show you two versions of it.

This is from May 26th, 2023 and It says today we encounter a wide variety of questions related to sexuality and gender these questions are both complex and personal the purpose of this document as a reflection of our commitment to scripture as expressed in the crew statement of faith is to provide crew staff with the biblical and theological framework to Engage with LGBTQ plus questions while this document addresses posture and theology.

You will find answers to practical ministry questions evangelism discipleship, etc. So this is the document and I've just highlighted some things the highlights are from me the rest of it though. This is all crew.

So The.

There's multiple versions of this and So this one says and I think I'm getting this in order here. So this is this is the LGBT plus resources that crew sent out. This is to staff. Okay. So I'll just read you it says the pastoral papers that are included in this these pastoral papers that help you navigate these issues.

LGBT plus issues are selected from the Center for faith sexuality and gender. Now the Center for faith sexuality and gender for those who don't know that is Preston sprinkles quote-unquote ministry Preston sprinkle and I can't give you all the information in one video.

But he's the guy that in a podcast a few months ago. I played I actually I think a whole podcast I devoted to an interview he did with someone who considered themselves transgender and He was so compromised on it that I just thought this is unbelievable that this guy is being brought into Christian organizations and His material is being used.

Well, one of those organizations is crew so For those who listen to the podcast, you'll know who I'm talking about when I say Preston sprinkle now. With the exception of compassionate and faithful and the crew webinar, which I don't I don't think I have the crew webinar.

Which are exclusively for crew staff. You are welcome to share these resources. So these are all resources that can be shared, but there's the compassionate and faithful Document you cannot share which we'll we'll get into that but Actually, what we'll do I think is I will first show you Internal stuff and then we'll go to public stuff.

Okay, so here's Compassionate and faithful engaging in ministry that is compassionate towards people and faithful to Scripture. It says on this. That please note that including a resource below does not reflect any endorsement of all that the author or organization Publishes or says or might in the future.

Please do not share it outside crew the compassionate. What I'm showing you essentially now this as I understand it from a crew staff former crew staff. Has been changed that this actually this language was added because of some internal pushback.

But if you go through the document, it's the same articles. It's the same pastoral papers. It's the same audio-visual resources. Same books, you know, it's the same basic message and we're gonna talk about that message in a moment that you get from this Preston Sprinkle stuff Rachel Gilson stuff affirming same-sex attraction Nate Collins stuff.

In fact, let me show you here's there's a video on here. I'll go to the audio video. Let's just give you a sample here. One of these I believe it is God is making me whole not straight. I think that's the one I'm gonna play for you here.

But this is one of the ones on the list that crew recommends. It says you can share with people who you're ministering to. That's not it, hold on I'm gonna get to that in a moment. Here it is.

By far the most people that I've encountered are folks who on the one hand Want to affirm their love for me but who also feel this great sadness at the thought that I won't be able to pursue a Relationship that I desire on the one hand.

I'm I'm touched by their by their sadness and I appreciate Their sympathy for what has been at times for me a really really painful journey. But I also long for my brothers and sisters in Christ to find a place in their hearts to celebrate with me.

The.

Opportunities that I have as a celibate gay Christian.

Okay, so you saw Nate Collins there from revoice the person who started revoice conference, which is probably one of the most prominent.

LGBT.

Orientation affirming conferences in the quote-unquote evangelical world and then Greg Coles who wrote single gay Christian. We reviewed that on the podcast. He even says he's not really sure if same-sex weddings are that big of a deal I mean because there's so many issues of greater importance like predestination verse Arminianism and that kind of thing and you know, it's just it's a head-scratcher.

But there's the message. That's the message. You're gonna see throughout. This is you can be gay. But you just you know, those those those desires aren't necessarily sinful. You just can't have a sexual relationship.

You can't Give in to those desires in a sexual way because that would violate scripture, but you can have this identity. In some way, right? I mean that's kind of the whole premise of revoice. So that's just and that one.

What was that called? That's called dear church. I'm gay. So dear church. I'm gay. Is the name of that particular resource and It is I'm I'm trying to find out what link I exactly clicked it's actually on this one here I'll show you If people can see that It's right, I don't know if people can see my pointer but right under the audio-visual resources, that's just one of them I mean it is I'm barely scratching the surface with this stuff and it's just because it's so overwhelming.

But there there's books by Preston Sprinkle by Rachel Gilson. You have Wesley Hill right there, I mean it's pretty much the who's who of that side B kind of theology now. Part of the reason that I am doing this podcast and I'm going to show you I'm about to show you Internal stuff from crew is because this happened last Friday.

This is Rosaria Butterfield at Liberty University. And here's what she had to say.

Truth. Let me give you some examples. Have you ever heard that same-sex attraction is a sinless temptation and only a sin if you act on it. Or that people who experience same-sex attraction are actually gay Christians Called to lifelong celibacy or that people who experience same-sex attraction rarely have ever changed and Therefore should never pursue heterosexual marriage or that sex and gender are different and that God doesn't care about whether men live as men and women live as women because all you need to do is grow in the fruit of the Spirit as Though the fruit of the Holy Spirit can grow from sin.

I. From Christian ministries and this is where I name names and I'm an English professor. So I call this citing my sources revoice Preston Sprinkles exiles in Babylon conference sponsored by his heretical Center for faith sexuality and gender and Crew, I got three seats people.

And.

I have believed these lies too and not only as a Christian and I have repented Publicly as a Christian in my book to you in articles and these people can do the same.

Okay, so that's the message. It's a great message. It's a bold message. It's a message. You need to hear more and more from people especially people like Preston Sprinkle like Greg Coles like Rachel Gilson.

These are all people that she's inviting to do what she's done and and repent and say, you know what? I used to say this I this is wrong. No, I should never have taught this and impressed. And sprinkle I think has gone farther than Rosario ever did but in fact I think Rachel Gilson has to and so I think has Nate Collins and so but but the point is though She's saying join me join me and you could hear the audience.

They cheer For her to name names and then when she says crew there's this kind of hushed Ooh that goes over the audience. Now, there is a crew chapter at Liberty University. There's probably a lot of people in that room who are planning on going On staff at crew somewhere else.

I mean crew crew is big in the evangelical world.

So.

So anyway, that's what happened. That's what prompted this whole thing and that's what prompts me to show you what I'm about to show you. So This is a document. Now, I'm gonna see if I can zoom out here to show you this is something I'm going to make available to everyone.

I thought about where I was gonna put this. I'll probably just put it on like a Google Drive or something and put the link out there on my social media account. So if you follow me on social media, you will have access to this this afternoon.

But This is these are crew internal documents crews approach to LGBTQ plus questions and HR resources. So we're gonna start here and I'm going to have to zoom in a bit. There's The way I put this together on PowerPoint and so it's kind of like I think it's 16 by 9 so it but it's small print so Start off here.

This is crews approach to LGBTQ plus questions. And it starts off by saying this the content on these pages is intended as a resource for crew staff. In order to protect the ministry of staff at the local level.

Please do not copy content or share your organizational document with ministry partners pastors or friends. So this stuff is stuff that you're not supposed to share. I guess with your pastor. Apparently this is this is all stuff that crews putting out there though giving to their staff.

Okay, just so you understand What's going on here?

So.

Here's a section of it's called creation. God's good design and You can see Preston Sprinkle is cited here as a source Under the heading sex and gender in the creation story. It says this as it relates to male and female.

The main categories of Genesis 1 through 2 is biological sex. The creation account doesn't directly address gender the social and cultural ways in which we live out our maleness or femaleness. In the world.

We should affirm the goodness of the sexual difference God created by living clearly as male and female while showing appropriate flexibility. In line with the Bible in what it may look like to express being male or female in our various cultural settings.

If you go to the there's a. There's a citation there. If you go down it says gender is often viewed in terms of identity and expression. You already have a fundamental problem because this is one of the tenants of The LGBT plus movement is that gender and sex are different things.

That Gender is a. That now I mean some of them are saying even sex is a social construct. But but gender is what they often use. Gender is a social construct. So we can deconstruct the.

The.

Gender roles that we have in society, for example, and I think it even gives this example, you know. Women are the ones who mainly cook. So they'll cite that and say well there's exceptions. There aren't there cases where the men cook?

Why why should the women cook. Why. Right. And. And that's just a gender stereotype. And instead of asking a better question, which is.

Why?

Why in Christian societies is in general are women the ones who tend to be the cooks? Well, it doesn't mean that it's across the board a legalistic standard. You must apply. But why is that the general trend?

Why is that the role that's often in instance easy answer? Because they're a Christian conception of women is their work is in the home. That's the Proverbs 31 women. Yes, of course she engages in business for her home.

That's that's what we even see with the instructions for older women to younger women teach them how to be Homemakers essentially so this that's part of the reason the the man is out there working the woman's at home.

And she's taking care of the children if they have children. She's cooking. I mean that this is now controversial somehow, but there's a reason that role developed the way it did and It's and a better question is why and is that a good overall role there?

Of course, there's exceptions to things but the What what you see often is an attempt to deconstruct all of this and then to even go a step further and say well Hey, how how come women are the only ones who can wear dresses?

I mean Scottish people wear kilts as if that's even comparable, right? And and so, you know hairstyles earrings, whatever the case may be it gets into all these other areas and it deconstructs the. The affirmation that society gives to the difference between genders because that's what those things are.

It's a signal that I'm in this category. All right with the responsibilities and the obligations that are part of that. So Yeah, well, I think I think Doug Meeks has already brought up I think I already hopefully answered this yes.

There's work there. She engages in business though on behalf of her home. So she's not outside her husband's the one that sits at the gates, but anyway. So this is I actually have to move along a lot faster here because I'm just realizing I've already already been going over 20 minutes and this is quite the document so Let me get through some more territory here and maybe you won't agree with all my assessments on this.

But you're gonna have to admit there is a problem somewhere. Here is The next section the fall the corruption of God's good design. And so I want to read for you this says before we discuss the impact of the fall on one sexuality.

It is important to remind ourselves that those of us who experience same-sex attraction and or gender dysphoria are image bearers. Who possess great dignity and worth in God's sight we are friends co-workers and family members.

Faithfulness to scripture involves embracing not only the Bible sexual ethic. But also the command to love our neighbor as ourselves. Our posture is one of compassion and humility. It is also important to acknowledge that the conversion around the conversation around sexuality is emotionally charged and can be painful.

Now you may ask John What's the problem with that? We're supposed to be compassionate and I only bring this up as one representative example. I'll probably show you a few more but I can't show you all of it because it's chalked throughout the document.

I would say half the document is this kind of language. It it at least a third of it, I mean it is just the nuance and the winsomeness and I mean it uses the word complexity and nuance quite a bit in the document and It's like you got to be so careful about this topic, right?

You have to show so much compassion. You can't even start the conversation unless you have this super humble super willing to listen super passive kind of Posture that you take the thing that I wanted to point out about this is would they say this about anything else?

What is any other sin in this category would they? How about something that crew is very concerned about right? Racial insensitivity it being insensitive to someone because of their racial makeup. Would crew put out documents saying or language that says?

You know.

When you got someone who's a quote-unquote white supremacist You have to be so careful and loving and understand where they're coming from and no they don't in fact What they'll do and you're gonna find this throughout this document.

I'll show you some examples is They will condemn they'll say basically be quick to condemn people who have hard and fast gender Stereotypes be quick to condemn them or people who engage in homophobia be quick to condemn them be quick to condemn that.

Be slow ever so slow it might be years Sometimes and what I'll show you an example here soon. It may be years before you can really Get someone to do something like even change the way that they think of themselves as far as their pronouns are concerned I mean It is slow as molasses when it comes to that and and on Eggshells and tiptoeing when it comes to this issue, which I would suggest to you.

It should be that if any issue should be knee-jerk reaction. That's wrong. It should be this that does that mean you're compassionate and not compassionate? No, you can still be compassionate, but you need to be upfront with this is the truth.

You're in sin what you're doing is sin. Your lifestyle is sin. Your identity that you're taking is sin. All of this is sin. Think about yourself according to God's standard not according to the lies. You've been fed from the world or the flesh or the devil.

We're all three so. This I think is the way it's framed to me is the more important thing you're gonna see things in here that Directly contradict what the Bible teaches, but I think the way it it's framed is the poison pill.

This is the thing crew can't recover from because if you're constantly Whatever the world says and approves of if you're constantly in this kind of defensive Mode where you can't really engage it directly.

You have to be super slow about it and super Just I guess passive and and it just seems wimpy to me. But you have to do this like everything's cushioned with that first. That's Pandora's box. It just means that on the things the world is concerned about you can be upfront you can be direct but on the things that the world is.

Isn't you know? Defending and encouraging you can't so you let the world dictate how you view these issues. That is I think the main issue with all of this in my opinion so it says Marriage is always represented throughout scripture as a male-female union.

That's good. And that's one thing. I do want to make Clear they are clear on that and if you're a someone who's a donor who calls them. They'll probably be quick to tell you. Oh, we believe marriage is between a man and a woman.

Yes, of course. I mean it is an evangelical organization. It is very hard for them to ditch that but I think in time if they keep going down this path, they will. Moreover same-sex sexual expression is explicitly prohibited both in the Old Testament and the New Testament.

Okay good. It also says though and this is about same-sex attraction. It is important to distinguish the experience of same-sex attraction from acting on it in thought word or deed. So so apparently you can experience something without acting on it in thought word or deed.

Okay, simply having such desires should not be a cause of condemnation or shame.

Okay.

So you shouldn't have shame if you have same-sex attraction desires for someone of the of the same sex the way that you would for Someone of the opposite sex that you might intend to marry you shouldn't be ashamed of that.

Some of us have spent hundreds of hours praying for God to remove these attractions to no avail. So instead of citing a scripture there it's an experience that look at all these people who have prayed and their prayers haven't been answered and Some of us have experienced such animosity from other Christians so you see there there's this sort of like a press thing going on here there's a victim and You're reinforcing the victimhood if you do not accept this orientation language.

Here's another section the fall again. This is part of the fall the corruption of God's good design Says to our same-sex attraction others of us attest that our experience of same-sex attraction arose spontaneously and without choice similar to the pattern experienced by people in opposite sex attraction or if you remember in when gay marriage was being pushed.

Initially, that's the same argument. They use it. So well, we never chose this so if you never chose it, then somehow that makes it acceptable and Put the shoe on the other foot. Would you do this with other sexual?

Expressions that are viewed as taboo. Would you do this and I'm not saying they're the same thing. But but would you do this they're in the same category in this sense, though. Is it okay to justify something like bestiality?

Right Peter Singer on Twitter just put something out there saying that in some cases you can have this This attraction and that's fine. And would you justify that? Would you justify pedophilia based on this?

I mean you I didn't choose it. So Therefore we can have this these attractions as long as we don't. You know as long as we don't engage in it. We can have the feelings or have the attractions because because they didn't arise from us.

The question is where do they arise from that? I mean, is it God if it's not sin? Where did it come from? Because people can identify as transgender for various reasons. It is best to never assume, you know.

Why someone has adopted that identity? There's a lot of this kind of language again, I would just say to that that The Bible gives us clear direction on why someone might do this and It comes back to something actually very simple.

It comes back to sin a rebellion against the created order. That's what Romans 1 is about it's not something that You have to just well, I can't. I'm not an expert. I don't know enough about it. I haven't asked enough people I haven't gotten their story.

Therefore. I can't jump to conclusions about what might have caused it. Right and there's different flavors and different approaches in different ways and you can have compassion and you can counsel that person.

But we still know the root issue is sin and and that's what you won't find in this. Here's a section on redemption beginning to recover. God's good design he consistently treated people male and female with dignity and honor, especially those on the margins as Jesus and You know Preston Sprinkle uses this a lot in his teachings that look Jesus.

He went for those people who were cast out from society just like the LGBT people are cast out from the church and Let's be real with the world that we live in and especially if you're on a college campus The people who are in vogue the people who don't have to worry about being discriminated against quote-unquote are people who have this identity.

At this point, okay. They are a protected class.

Law.

Guess who is not protected. Guess who the people on the margins are today? Yeah. I mean, it's Christians. It's people that are you know, anti-semites. It's with here. Here's a good thing to consider.

We creep out put out a document on anti-semitism and the whole document is This tiptoeing and what Jesus talked to people on the margins and anti-semites are certainly on the margins. So we should well the thing is we should talk to those people.

They need the Lord. They're also humans. They're made in God's image. All of that stuff is true. But there would. I'm sure that the messaging on this would be more of a quick condemnation. That's what you saw from crew in 2020.

It was it was condemn racism, right. Condemn the racist. So they're the problems but when it comes to to this no, no. No, and the Bible is infinitely more clear in my opinion. There's more information in the Bible about this than there is supposed.

Quote-unquote. Racism.

Okay.

Jesus singleness here and here's the Second step when using Jesus first he reached out to the people in the margins. Secondly his singleness also challenged his social and religious context which taught that divine blessing resided.

Especially in marriage and begetting children. So here here's Jesus Challenging these stereotypes challenging what culture says culture says that you should get married and have kids. But Jesus says that through his example that there's that that not necessarily that that's not divine blessing I guess.

That it's the divine blessing doesn't reside in marriage and begetting children, you know to which I would quote Ecclesiastes 9 9 which says enjoy life with the wife whom you love all the days of your futile life.

Which he has given you under the Sun all the days of your futility for this is your reward in life and in your work. Which you have labored under the Sun. I mean that certainly seems to me like that's a divine blessing but Apparently not and you know, it discounts the fact that Jesus had a special mission.

He had a special Calling and a singleness that complemented that calling. It's a unique situation and there are others in unique situations. That doesn't mean it's the normal pattern Jesus taught about marriage.

He reinforced marriage and of course all of the words of Scripture are from Jesus. The creation norm is that a man shall leave his mother and father cleave to his wife. That they shall be fruitful and fill the earth.

That is the creation norm. Okay. Yes there of course. There's infertile couples. Of course, there's people who don't get married. Of course, there's people who have a gift of singleness. Of course, there are these things but that is not the norm and that's where the focus should be there should be an Expectation that most people are going to get married not shy away from that and that is a blessing.

That's a blessing from the Lord. Children are a blessing from the Lord. So anyway, it says Jesus Christ created him. I just wanted to highlight that this language is also in there created a multi-ethnic community without national borders the church and then it goes on and on about the Incru really wants to dial up that you know, it's this kind of racially integrated Community that you can be part of.

I mean that's appealing to I guess even social justice types and college campuses. But the word community probably isn't the best word. It's an institution. It's a it's an institution that happens to be multi-ethnic that's not its primary like distinctive but yeah, of course, it's from every tribe tongue nation, but as it's not a community in the sense of like a It's not like a community where you live in tangible earthly reality and You you have people with different languages and there's no national borders.

I mean, I I go to a church right within the United States within a certain state within national borders. I don't have the option of Doing something otherwise, right? So It uses these buzzwords the this language that's appealing.

But it doesn't really clarify or help make sense of what the church actually is if they're the universal church exists across time and space and They're in the culmination of it. There is gonna be people of every tribe tongue in nation.

But it doesn't I would you would never say and you don't find this language in Scripture where it's a multi-ethnic community without national borders. You know, that's certainly not the local church, right?

But even the universal church. It's it doesn't like wash away all that all the distinctions that exist out there. And and if you read the rest of us, it certainly gives you that impression. And and I you know, I I've noticed this before and I think this is the only reason I bring that up.