Steve Camp - The Worship Driven Church

I'll keep this brief here this afternoon. Just for the next two hours together, we're going to look here profoundly at the idea of biblical worship, as the early church would refer to it as worth-ship.

The Worship-Driven Church and the Glory of God

I've entitled this as a parody on Rick Warren's title, but the worship-driven church. I mean, that's what we are to be, isn't it? The whole totality of our lives given in unceasing praise and worship and honor and glory to the Lord Jesus Christ.

They've assigned me the topic, breaking the peace, with the drums not here, that's going to be impossible to do. But I want you to... That was a joke. But here, what it really means to be the worship-driven church is very simple.

To live daily in the presence of His glory. This is really the issue above all issues. It's not living according to my happiness. It's not living according to my own predilections. It's not living according to my own selfish bias.

You can bring down those lights slightly if you'd like to. I don't know who turned them up, but thank you.

Just...

Oh, perfect. There we go. As a musician, I'm used to seeing things at a little more... I look better in the dark. But worship is not according to our own personal moorings or predilections. It's not according to our own personal felt needs.

It's about one thing. It's not about us. It is all about Him. It is about God and His glory. And so here this afternoon, I want to look briefly at this subject of biblical worship and specifically in relation to the arts, specifically in relation to music.

Here, just a brief definition of what biblical worship really is. Worship is ascribing worth to the one triune God. And that's a very important statement today because we live in a time where there's a resurgence of modalism, of Sabellianism.

Even in contemporary Christian music, there are groups that deny the Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit co-equal, co-eternal, co-existing of the same essence, of the same glory deserving of worship and praise.

And yet here there are those that consider themselves orthodox by standards because they deny the essence of the Trinity. I'm on a forum this last year. I left it over this issue, but I was on a forum of about 400 broadcasters that had every kind of conceivable broadcasting network, Christian worldview perspective, different artists, and mostly encompassing most of the mainline evangelical leaders you'd be familiar.

With today.

What was sad was someone had put out a post on the Trinity and I wrote a defense of the doctrine of the Trinity for this forum. 70 of the forum basically in their surveys basically said this, Steve, what's the big.

Idea?

What's the big idea?

It's just the Trinity. We all have doctrinal subterfuge in our lives. We all have theological skews and moorings, and I just try to say to them lovingly that if you deny the Trinity, you deny the God of the Bible.

If you deny the doctrine of the Trinity, then you deny really the sufficient propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus on the cross for our sins. You deny the atonement. If you deny the Trinity, you deny the ongoing mediatorial work of our Lord in heaven praying for us, and you deny the ongoing ministry of the Holy Spirit among God's people.

The whole of it unravels, isn't it? But chiefly, if you deny Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the doctrine of the Trinity, you deny the God of the Bible, and no matter what face you put on it, it is idol worship, and that is serious.

And so here, biblical worship is ascribing worth to the one triune God according to how God has ascribed worth to himself, sola scriptura. By the standard and veracity of his word, and then that being from an obedient life.

I agree with Martin Luther that the highest form of worship is the clear preaching and teaching of God's holy word, and then listening to it with an obedient life. The components here of biblical ministry and biblical worship, I would suggest, are just these five things.

Are these five things. And then we're going to look at our text here for this afternoon. First of all, the message, and if you'll turn with me to these various scriptures, we'll move quickly. But the message, Psalm 119 .54, this is one of my favorite verses in all the scripture on the use of music in particular.

And as you're turning there, I realize that music has always been a hot potato issue. Sometimes the music for people is a little too soft, sometimes it's a little too loud. Sometimes people don't understand the use of drums and guitars and instruments in the body of Christ and the use of corporate worship, and they feel if it's not played on an organ or even done a cappella without instruments, that how could it be biblical?

These people are dramatically backslidden in their lives to believe that. That again was another point of humor. But here, music has always been a hot potato issue. Larry Norman, a dear friend of mine, in 1972 released an album called Lonely Vitas in this Planet with a wonderful song, Why Should the Devil Have All the Good Music?

And the whole point is, is that music, I agree with Michael Horton on this, is not amoral. Music is the incarnation of the message. But yet we are to sing a new song to the Lord. Now that word new in the Septuagint, kynos, in the Greek translation of the Old Testament is used more in relation to music than any other thing, and it doesn't mean a new style or new different use of notes, it means new in nature, new in kind.

And the thing that we are to sing is the redeemed people of God is a new song. I love this hymn, A Mighty Fortress is Our God. Isn't it wonderful? Do you remember after 9 -11 when they had that ecumenical service where Billy Graham was given over to a spirit of cowardice and capitulated to the postmodern moral plurality of the moment and did not state clearly the gospel of Jesus Christ?

He fit in beautifully with the Muslim priest, with the Methodist priest, with the Roman Catholic priest. But I tell you, if in that one instant he had the world's stage, even if they would have stoned him afterwards, I would have said, sweet death, preach the word.

Preach the gospel. Don't play politics with God. Don't play politics with Christ. But the one shining moment, the one glorious moment, I called Dr. MacArthur on the phone after this had happened. I said, John, are you watching this?

And he said, yes. Wasn't it tremendous? And it was this. While the Roman Catholic priest was ascending up into that pulpit there at the National Cathedral to preach in the sovereignty of God, they were singing A Mighty Fortress is Our God.

And I couldn't help but think he's singing of all the songs. They had to pick a Luther hymn. I say amen to that. First of all, what's the components of biblical use of music in regards to ministry? The message, Psalm 119 .54, thy statutes, David says, are my songs in the house of my pilgrimage.

His word, our music. His law book, our song book. His theology, our doxology. Great theology contained in great hymnology should lead us in great doxology before the.

Lord.

Thy statutes are my songs in the house of my pilgrimage. As we're making our way through this earth, we just don't have the song of the world to be singing. We have a heavenly song. And it's the song of the word of God put into music.

It is no accident in the sovereignty of God and the superintending work of the spirit of God and the producing of his word that here the greatest bed of scriptural evidence that we have on the character of God are the Psalms, songs.

The greatest passage on the authority and veracity and standard infallibility and inerrancy of the word of God, Psalm 19, verses 7 to 11, it's a song. The longest chapter in the Bible, Psalm 119, 176 verses, and these were songs.

If I may disagree with my brother Don Kistler, we can get our theology from the hymn book. The Psalms were the hymn book of the Old Testament. And Luther even said next to the scriptures, his favorite book was the hymn book.

Why?

Especially during the Reformation, they would take the great truths of scripture, put them in great songs of faith so that people could sing them and learn the character of God. Nobody ever goes by and picks up their favorite commentary from their favorite author and memorizes it, do they?

But here a well-crafted song within four or five listens to, you don't even have to think about it. It is in your heart and mind forever, is it not? The very first car I had as a teenager was a 1969 VW Bug.

Had 230 ,000 miles on it, it was free, so I thought it was a Rolls Royce. It was fantastic. I remember when my brother-in-law and I got that started out of this farmer's field. He said, if you can start it, you can drive it home.

And when I got it finally started with my brother-in-law, the very first song to come on that single speaker surround sound AM stereo was Maggie Mae by Rod Stewart. I tell you, even now, if I'm in a hotel in the elevator and Maggie Mae comes on, man, I can smell the natural vinyl of my VW Bug.

Music by divine design, it is instant recall. And I tell you, this is why it's so important, ladies and gentlemen, the message remain consistent.

With the Word of God.

It is such a powerful tool that we need to guard it. And it's the only thing, we're not going to be preaching in heaven, we're not going to be sharing the gospel in heaven, but we will sing worthy is the land that was slain before the foundation of the earth, won't we?

All the elect from the four corners of the world will be gathered together in the end of the ages in one great choir that forever and ever in unbroken fellowship, we will sing praise and worship to our Lord.

And even Hebrews 2 .12 says that all of heaven will be quiet and we will hear Jesus Christ Himself sing praise in the midst of the brethren to God the Father as we are a love gift as His elect from God the Father to God the Son.

Can you hardly wait for that day? What a great opportunity. Colossians chapter three, again, a very familiar text if you'll turn there with me. Colossians chapter three, Paul's writing here from a prison in Rome, virtue of the emphasis of his dear friend Epaphras.

And he gives these very familiar words, let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly, take permanent residence in you, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom that's applied truth, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs with thankfulness in your heart to.

God.

And whatever you do in word or deed and everything do in the name of the Lord Jesus giving thanks to God the Father through Him. Notice here, we are to teach, that means it's didactic. We are to admonish, that means to encourage, instruct, warn or counsel, edify.

And we're to do this with all wisdom again, apply truth to the need of the hour and that is to be contained in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Music can be didactic, music can lead in worship, it can bring counsel and care and warning and instruction.

This is why we not only have the great psalms of praise in the Psalter but we also have the imprecatory psalms where the psalmist is just crying out for the Lord to judge the wicked and so forth. We see it all, we see great psalms of brokenness and doubt and fear and the full range of human agony and human emotion as their walk with the Lord unfolded.

Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, psalms, the Psalter, hymns, the paradosis, the language of tradition like we just sang with Martin Luther's great hymn, A Mighty Fortress is Our God. And then spiritual songs, the songs of a new generation as we sang here the third day great song, God of Wonders.

And this is to erupt with thankfulness in our hearts to God. When the Word of God takes permanent residence in our lives, when it is the message that we sing, the statutes of our Lord is our song, then it culminates in worship that everything we do in the name of the Lord Jesus give thanks to God the Father through him.

The Messenger, the Motives, and the Message in Worship

Number two, what about the messenger? Not just the message. Does the messenger matter? It does, doesn't it? In Washington, D .C., character means little. But in the pulpit, in the work of music even, in the context of the local church, character is everything, ladies and gentlemen.

We're seeing that in the news today, how destructive sin can be to a man of God, isn't it? And here, this should cause us all to have godly fear in our lives. Would you turn with me to Amos chapter 5?

This is a very definitive text. Here, this shepherd prophet Amos is being called out to be a spokesperson for the Lord. And God gives this unsuspecting exhorter a tremendous, powerful message for a wayward.

Israel.

Very familiar text. Amos chapter 5, verses 21 to 24. He says, I hate, I despise your feasts, I take no delight in your solemn assemblies. Even though you offer me your burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them.

The peace offerings of your fattened animals, I will not look upon them. The Lord discredits it all. Now understand, this was a prescribing work of biblical worship. This was part of the Levitical worship.

Burnt offerings, grain offerings, peace offerings, even the feast days. The Lord says, I take no delight in them. Even your solemn assemblies, you've come together for the right reason. He dismisses it all.

He says, I will not even look upon them. And then verse 23, something my mom always said to me in high school, take away from me the noise of your songs. To the melody of your harps, I will not listen.

Why?

Was Israel guilty of making bad music? Was it just a concophony of notes strung together that was only ringing in the most obtrusive and obstreperous of dissonant tones? Was it unbiblical? Did it not contain a godly message?

Listen, in this time, in this day, out of the 38 ,000 priests within the temple, 4 ,000 were musician priests. You can read it in 1 Chronicles 15 to 1 Chronicles 23, we don't have time to look at it. But the instruments that David made, they were made for giving praise.

Chenaniah, the chief of the Levites, was skilled in the craft of music. I love that. It wasn't Aunt Martha or Uncle Harry stepping up and saying, we don't have anybody else to play piano today, so I guess we'll choke out a song if we can.

It drives me crazy when that happens in churches, especially Reformed churches. You know, that here we treat music as some sort of vocation. Could you imagine stepping into a Reformed church and just saying, does anybody have anything to say?

Maybe somebody here can open up the Bible and tell us what it means. We wouldn't do that in such a casual way. Why do we treat the hymnology any different? I so appreciate my friend Michael Fallon here in the time and the effort that he is applying with all of these musicians and singers up here to give us wonderful praise and worship during this conference.

Hasn't it been wonderful? And listen, that doesn't happen by accident. Chenaniah was skilled in the craft of music. In fact, later on it says that Jeduthim and so forth, the others that were part of his musicianship in the Levitical priesthood there, in the temple worship, 4 ,000 prophets singing the word of God.

Could you imagine anything more glorious? That was their praise team. Just incredible. And it says that they were also skilled in the voices. Skilled in the music. Skilled with the voices. And then the third component, they were skilled in the revelation.

Skilled in the revelation. They had biblical music skillfully done, craftily done. They were master craftsmen at the art of ministry, of praise and worship. And this is why I firmly believe that even the term worship leader is a misnomer.

It ought to be the chief musician. If we're going to reclaim it biblically, why don't we call that person the chief musician? Because what that meant was that they were concentrated, pardon me, as being approved unto God as a member of the priesthood, which meant that even today I believe that the chief musician should be elder qualified.

Number two, they were skilled in the craft of music. This was a calling. And number three, they were trained biblically. They were skilled in the revelation. They prophesied with the harps and with the lyres and with the cymbals.

Did we all hear that? With the cymbals. And the Psalm 150 says it should be loud. I love it loud. I love to feel the kick drum beating my chest to the glory and praise of God. Does that make sense to you all?

Okay. No, it doesn't? Okay, well, we need to give you some free CDs afterwards. I think the music should be glorious. It should be loud. It should be enjoyable. It should be done with all fervor and vigor and passion and glory in us to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

And I'm not one for taking the world's music and saying this now represents Jesus as God as my girlfriend kind of songs. I think we ought to keep the songs Christocentric, but let them be done gloriously to the Lord Jesus Christ.

But here in Amos chapter 5, David says we got a problem. Pardon me, Amos says we have a problem. The Lord despises it. He rejects it. He rejects the melody of it. He rejects the message of it. He rejects their solemn assemblies.

He rejects their offerings. He rejects their festivals. Why? Notice verse 24. Let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream. Ladies and gentlemen, biblical music sung gloriously to the Lord, but out of a disobedient, unrepentant life is noise to his holy ears.

What's the message? Let the music stop until the life is right. Let the music stop until the life is right. I don't care what style it is. Man, I have so many friends in Nashville. I've been in Christian music now 28 years and I remember those early days with 2nd Chapter of Acts and Larry Norman and Randy Stonehill and Love Song and Andre Crouch and all these tremendous singer-songwriters for the Lord.

And then my dear late friend Keith Green. Don't you miss Keith and his wonderful music? There is a Redeemer and Songs for the Shepherd and my favorite song that he's ever written, the greatest missionary song of all time, Asleep in the Light.

I miss these artists and then artists today, Cademan's Call and Third Day and Casting Crowns and I mean just the list could go on and on. Great music. But you see, it's not just about dotting our theological I's and crossing our doctrinal.

T's.

If the life isn't right, the messenger may do a good show, but it's noise to the ears of a holy God. Notice here with me in Ephesians Chapter 5, again another wonderful passage on the wonderfulness.

Of this.

You'll know that this is a synonymous chapter to Colossians 3 that we just looked at. But here Paul is encouraging them, he says, don't get drunk with wine, verse 18 of Ephesians 5. I'm reading from the ESV version.

For that is debauchery, but he says, but be being filled with the spirit, present tense.

Reality.

And by the way, this isn't filling up an empty glass with water. That's not what the filling means here. It's a nautical term in historic Greek language. It means the filling of the sails of a ship with wind and that ship then is moved and carried along.

You've heard the phrase, the spirit controlled life. This is what it's talking about. In other words, obedience. Be filled with the spirit. In other words, be controlled by the spirit. Don't let wine control you.

Don't get drunk, but be filled with the spirit. And I love this speaking or addressing one another in Psalms and hymns and spiritual.

Songs.

This is how we're to speak to one another in the church. Singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart. I love the Phillips translation. Here he says, making melody for the very ears of God.

That's who we sing for. That's who we minister for. That's who we preach for. That's who we do Bible studies for. That's why we go out and we do outreaches and share the gospel and have times where we feed the poor and care for those people with AIDS and we go to the four corners of the world just to share the gospel of Jesus Christ.

It's for his glory. It's for his namesake. It's for his approval. And notice in verse 20, what erupts out of the life that is filled with the word and filled with the spirit, we will give thanks for everything to God the Father in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

How does it affect the church? We will submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Even in our life within the church with each other, where we are preferring one another and submitting to one another, there is real biblical unity and a real biblical compassion and edification that happens with us as brothers and sisters in Christ.

It's even done out of reverence for Christ. It's an act of worship. The message is vitally important. The messenger is also important. But what about the motives? People always say, Steve, you can't judge motives.

Why not?

That must be in the unauthorized version of the Bible. I can never find it. You know this verse well, 1 Corinthians 10 .31. Whether you eat or drink, do it all to the glory of God. The apostle Paul is facing a very corrupt church in Corinth.

And he's here talking about the communion table and he's talking about the meals that.

They share.

But it's even the most simple of things, eating and drinking. It's to be done to the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ. Do you remember in Acts 12 that Herod was preaching? He believed his own press release.

He got caught up in the moment. And it said the people were shouting the voice of a God and not of a man. And it said that Herod fell over, was eaten by worms, and died. And the Bible tells us why. He did not give God glory.

Could you imagine such a thing? If this coming Sunday, all across the nation, that every pastor got up and was preaching only for their own self-value and self-worth and did not give God the glory, that they'd be executed by God on the spot.

Can you imagine what that would do to the church growth movement in this country? Can you imagine what a... And I mean that positively. No, we'd have... Can I explain myself? Can we stop the tape? What I mean by that is...

Well, I'll let you just deal with that. We have shortness of time. No, what I mean by that is that only it's the Lord that can add to the church. And it concerns me when we have personality-driven churches, where we have men who I love dearly, who are names in the landscape of American Christianity, that have become nothing more than one-day-a-week biblical motivational speakers, and they haven't shepherded the body of Christ.

You see, the motives have to be for the glory of God. And I loved what James White said earlier today. As a ministry to your pastor, be there regardless of who is giving the text, because it's not about the personality, it's about giving God glory.

It's about honoring Him in all things. Would you turn with me to Exodus chapter 15 here? Again, I know we're hopping around here, but this is an important text on music. It's the first song ever recorded in Scripture.

It's a song of Moses that they sang to the Lord. And this was after the Lord delivered Israel out of the hands of Pharaoh. And look at this incredible proclamation in verse 1.

He says,.

I will sing to the Lord, for He has triumphed gloriously. The horse and his rider has thrown into the sea. The Lord is my strength and my song, and He has become my salvation. This is my God, I will praise Him.

My Father's God, I will extol Him. The Lord is a man of war. The Lord is His name. One of the ways that we can guard against making, especially in music, it about us and rather it about being about Him, is that, notice here, one of the characteristics of Christianly music is that the Lord is my song.

The Lord is my song. He's my strength and my song, but He is my song. I have many friends in pop music that will tell me all the time, they'll say, Steve, could you tell your friends in Nashville that are trying to cross over from doing Christian music into the pop music that we make music without Jesus a whole lot better than they do.

And you know, it's really true. Man, if you're going to go see a concert that doesn't mention the Lord, don't go see a Christian artist that has compromised the message. Man, go see Springsteen. Really, it'll be a great concert.

Go see Andrea Bocelli. Go see U2. Go see, you know, whoever, James Taylor. Just, I mean, it'll be a better concert and they won't confuse you spiritually. You know, they really won't. I think a lot of artists confuse people spiritually today because they want to fit into the pop culture, but they're not good enough to get the secular deal.

So they record for a Christian company, wait till their album goes gold, and then they want to cross over and people will say compromise. But when all along, they didn't have it to sing about the Lord to begin with.

That's why it needs to be a qualified position on who represents Jesus through music, because it's very important. You might say, but Steve Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1, it's about the foolishness of preaching.

That's not what it says. The Greek reads, it's the foolishness of the message preached. It's not the vehicle of preaching that is foolish. It's the message that the unbelieving world considers the cross to be foolish.

Listen, whether we speak it or whether we sing it, let's make it about him. Let's make it that the Lord is the theme of my song. This is my concern with Christian music today, that the message has been dumbed down.

I was sharing this with Burke and with Michael before coming out here. I said, wouldn't it be great if we got everyone together? And we recorded Hey Jude in a studio tonight together. And we try to spiritualize it by saying it was about that little epistle before the book of Revelation.

That's what's happening today in today's Christian music culture. Really, Jesus is just all right with me. He's my bridge over troubled waters. Love is the answer. You know, it's the operification of the church, isn't it?

But you see, the motives are to be to glorify God. Now, don't misunderstand me here. I love listening to Eric Clapton. And man, when he rips off a solo, I enjoy that to the glory of God, all right? Eric doesn't know that he's doing it for that motive, but God made him in his image and he's using those gifts.

I wish it had a permanent effect that Eric was my brother and he was using that to praise the Lord. But I enjoy all kinds of music, classical, jazz, rap. The only R &B, you know, the only music genre I struggle with that if it can really even be used for the Lord is country.

Anyway, no, just kidding, just kidding. Hey, if any of you don't like country, and I live in Nashville, so, you know, it's my purgatory. If any of you don't like country, buy a Rascal Flats album. My buddy Dan Huff produces them, plays guitar for them.

Dan's a wonderful Christian guy, was a guitar player for White Heart for several years, but they have some great songs. A couple of the guys know the Lord in that group. It's family-oriented. It's really safe for the whole family, and you can listen to it.

Anyway, I hope that ministered to you about their recommendation for that, for their music. The message, the messenger, the motives. What about the methods? Would you turn me to 2 Corinthians 4, the methods here.

This is a very important passage. If I, or when I should, I should say, when I die, if any of you are still around and they can't find my will, I want this passage read at my funeral. 2 Corinthians 4 is the wheelhouse text for ministry for me, the entire chapter.

But notice here, these first seven verses, I love this. Paul says, therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God, notice it's from God's mercy, not our giftedness, cleverness, inventiveness. He says, we don't lose heart.

We don't faint. He says, we have renounced disgraceful, unashamed ways, pardon me, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God's word, but by the open statement of the truth, we would commend ourselves to everyone's conscience and the sight of God.

That really is the answer to the emergent church in America today. I'm coming out with an article tomorrow on the blog called the emergent tulip. The emergent tulip. Here's what it is. Total ambiguity, unconditional pragmatism, limited theology, irresistible contextualization, postmodern perverse speech.

That sums up everyone from Seattle to Maryland that's part of the emerging emergent church movement. This text absolutely contradicts postmodern accommodationalism. Can we understand that an attraction model to ministry may attract people, but it is spiritually impotent.

As I shared last night, a story, I don't know what it is to be gay, to be homosexual. I know what it is to be a sinner. But when I went to San Francisco to share the gospel with 8 ,000 of these dear people, I didn't have to do a market strategy survey.

I didn't have to contextualize the truth for them. Man, you just have to let it out. You just have to proclaim it. When I was in Amsterdam at the Free Zone District and every storefront window contains a naked woman that is there for serving people through prostitution.

It's a very shocking thing to a man that grew up in Wheaton, Illinois. And you think, boy, this is a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah. It's several square miles that the government sanctions and condones any kind of drug, any kind of sex, any kind of perversion.

The only thing you can't do in the Free Zone is take someone's life, commit murder. Everything else is legal by government standard. And here, it was a great privilege to go up and down and to hand out Bibles and to give some concerts and to call people to Jesus Christ.

I didn't have to contextualize that. I didn't have to relate and do some sort of esoteric post-modernistic survey of cultural trends, you know, since the Renaissance period and relate to cultural issues facing people in that society.

No, man, I know what it is to be a sinner. I don't know what it is to do that in a storefront window. But my issue was even far worse than prostitution, homosexuality, drug abuse, anything. Ladies and gentlemen, I had the worst sin.

I was guilty of it to the third degree, worthy to spend my life in an eternal hell forever. And that was this. I was guilty. I was full of self-righteous religious pride. It's the most deadly sin in all of Scripture.

I deserve hell. I do not deserve to be up here today. But God in his infinite grace and mercy saved this wretched man. And I am so grateful to him. And that's why it concerns me when I see evangelical leaders calling for us to picket unbelieving people because they're living like unbelievers.

We should go with them with empathy and with care and with love and with grace and with boldness and with truth, heralding the gospel, calling them to repentance, warning them of the wrath to come. And you don't have to contextualize that.

You just have to let it out. You don't have to be known as the cussing pastor to relate to 20-somethings. Just preach the word, man. Honor the Lord. You don't have to use the Lord's name as a punchline like one brother did speaking of his humanity a couple of weeks ago in very degrading and scatological terms.

We're not called to go into all the world and relate. Man, if you can't relate to another sinner, then something is really wrong. Then you're the ones with a seared conscience because have we forgotten what we've been saved from?

My mom is 88 years old. She attends Alistair Beggs Church in Cleveland, Ohio. You know Alistair, he's the only pastor I know that can make the Beatles sound biblical. He's a great guy. I love him. And you know, at 88 years old, she still has women coming by every week to her house, teenage girls, 20s, 30s, 40-year-olds struggling in their marriages, struggling with their lives personally, all kinds of sin issues.

Do you think my mom knows the first thing about postmodern trends and societal issues? But she's read the word every day and has walked faithfully to the Lord for 75 years. And for some reason, those people that no one seemingly can relate to show up at her doorstep and she shares the gospel.

And by God's grace, people are coming to Jesus. Isn't it wonderful? It's not about us. It's not about our techniques. It's not about our programs. It's about his gospel because it alone is the power of God unto salvation.

Elton John and Don Henley, they were talking to a good friend of mine at a farm-aid show. And my buddy says, are you guys familiar with Christian music? He goes, yeah, we don't like it. He goes, I want to play a song by a friend of mine.

He played him an old song of mine called Revive Us, O Lord. Don Henley's a very smart man raised in a Christian family. His dad's a pastor. He's a brilliant thinker, great artist. When the song was done, my friend said, you could tell this publicly, it's a true story.