June 12, 2019 Show with R. C. Sproul Jr. on “Growing Up (with ) R. C.” Truths I Learned About Grace, Redemption & the Holiness of God

The Legacy of R. C. Sproul and the Purpose of the Program

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 12th day of June, 2019.

On December 14th, 2017, many of us lost a modern-day Christian hero, and that hero was R .C. Sproul, the founder of Ligonier Ministries. Well, my guest today not only lost a hero of his own, but he also lost his own father, R .C. Sproul.

And our guest today, if you haven't guessed already, is R .C. Sproul, Jr. And this is the first time he's been on the program since 2010, almost to the day. And it is my honor and privilege to welcome you back after nine years to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, R .C. Sproul, Jr.

Thank you, Chris. It's good to be with you.

And today we are going to be discussing R .C. Sproul, Jr.'s book, Growing Up With R .C., Truths I Learned About Grace, Redemption, and the Holiness of God. Before I even go into the book, R .C., I know that it's already been two years, but people differ in the way and the length of time that they grieve and the intensity with which they grieve.

So I just want you to let us know how you are doing after the passing of your father and how the rest of your family are coping with this enormous loss.

Well, I think overall we're doing quite well. We have the blessing of knowing that he's in a better place and the blessing of the memories and all the things that are helping me to deal with that loss and the blessing that we weren't owed, the loss of my father.

I'm glad that I had him and glad that I have the memories of him and glad, of course, that I'm going to be going to him one day.

Amen. And you know that phrase is an often repeated phrase, he or she is in a better place now. And it's such a reason for great rejoicing knowing that when it's said about your dad, there is just no question.

I mean, you're talking about a saint of God that has been used incalculably to not only bring the lost to salvation through his audio and video and writing, the preaching and teaching of the Word of God, but also even to draw Christians into deeper truth, more biblically orthodox truth.

And it is just staggering. None of us, I don't think, on this planet, in fact, I know, and none of us will know while we are here, the extent of the powerful impact your dad has had upon the body of Christ and upon the world.

Well, I'm blessed to hear that often. You know, people are not able to, and I have proved it.

Amen.

And one of the things that a common blessing that so many people have had from him with the more specific blessing, academic exercise, he certainly was someone that he clung to, and I got to watch that in real time.

Amen. Yes. One of the great gifts he had, which people like me, who have very few brain molecules left in their skull, he had this gift of taking very deep and profound and mysterious truths. He might have started off a lecture or a sermon that you might start to get a little worried at first because he is using very large words and quoting from people that you don't really know who they were, but then all of a sudden he gradually is breaking this down so your average person like me could understand what he's saying and then fall in love with what he's saying.

Yes, yes. And how what he said to so many people, the key to my father's ability that you described had this sociological points, and that's how he taught those points. Not true at all. What my dad did, it wasn't that he...

In fact, I want to remind our listeners that after this program is over, if you want to look up a memorial broadcast or a tribute broadcast to the late R .C. Sproul that I conducted on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, where I aired a interview, the only interview that I ever had the opportunity to have with him, and then I had conversations with friends of his and also those who were powerfully and incalculably blessed by him, go to the Iron Trip and Zion Radio website and go to the past shows podcast and in the search engine just type in Sproul, S-P-R-O-U-L and that will come up among other things, but that should be one of the primary links that you will find.

And it was such an honor, such a deep and profound and amazing honor for me to interview your father. And in fact, one of the things that is a precious gift that your dad gave me was an endorsement for this radio program.

I worked years ago part-time for Calvary Press Publishing and one of the tasks they gave me was to get commendations for books that they either had newly in print or that they brought back into print.

And Ligonier Ministries was very careful and strict in guarding your dad from just haphazardly and too freely writing these things, these endorsements. So after I interviewed your dad, I was not all that confident that I would get an endorsement or a commendation and I asked his secretary, do you think you could ask Dr. Sproul if he would write a commendation for my show if he truly enjoyed his time?

And after I got off the phone with her, I just forgot about it, never really thought that I was going to hear back. And then all of a sudden I get a phone call from your dad's secretary and she said, Dr. Sproul has written your commendation but he doesn't use a computer.

Do you want me to mail it to you or do you want me to scan it and email it to you? And I said, scan it and email it to me! Because I didn't want that thing getting lost in the mail. And it's one of those commendations that I proudly adorn my website with and I am just blown away.

Chris, I've got to tell you something that you may not know. When she offered to do that, she had to...

And one of the other, just very quickly, funny moments in my life with your dad, I had been given the task of getting your dad to endorse a booklet that Calvary Press brought into print called Heaven, A World of Love by Jonathan Edwards.

It was a chapter out of a larger volume by Edwards. And I once again was having a little bit of difficulty going through the main course of folks there at Ligonier. So one day when I was in Manhattan, where your dad was speaking at Calvary Baptist Church in Manhattan, when everybody got up to sing, I noticed that your dad, after he had finished speaking, ducked out the back.

And I'm saying, he's going to the men's room. So I ran into the hallway and I was chasing your dad in the hallway, Dr. Sproul, Dr. Sproul! And he said, if you want to talk to me, you've got to come in here.

We went into the bathroom and I actually spoke to him about the booklet while he was standing at the urinal. And about two weeks later...

Hopefully he went out with his mic on.

No, he did not. And about two weeks later we got in the mail his endorsement for having a world of love. So just a brief little comedy relief there. But you, in the beginning of your book, you start the book with an admission of your recent transgressions and you don't gloss over them, you don't make excuses for them.

And I would like you to, at least in this initial part of the program, say whatever you would like to say about that. So this isn't the primary thing looming around in the minds of the listeners. And then we can go on to more of the meat of the book about your relationship with your father.

Sure. Well, I'm happy to do that. Of course, I was happy to not just think it would be plain foolish, and either it won't or doesn't need to know about it. I need everybody to know about it.

Amen.

If I learned any event is that chapter, my hands are in shackles and of that night, I remember what happened, deals with sort of where my head was at that day, what was I thinking about, and what I kept coming back to was, I said before this happened, that the answer to every problem is repent and believe the gospel.

And that's what I needed to be doing. I needed to repent and I needed to be believing the gospel. But I also realized that day, so many people have this perspective, sweeping and absolutely covered, expectation is not complete.

Sin justifies sin by no means. Reality is the public. And because of that, it's not that I'm bitter about that, rather it's an opportunity. Hey, Jesus died for sinners like me.

Amen.

My sins were atoned for, even those that I have yet to commit.

Who knows?

I may have more coming up. I don't know, that are big and famous. I know I have more small ones. I may have more big ones. I don't know, but I do know this. I do know that Jesus died for me. And I want everybody who's listening to our conversation,.

Chris,.

I want them,.

I want the people who are afraid, who are under the oppression of the devil, who's telling them, you're not good enough to be forgiven. I want to tell them,.

Hey,.

If you're under the wolf,.

Let it be,.

And my need for it. And you know, the second point about why this story...

No, no,.

I want you to speak as freely as, at any length that you choose, when you're responding to my questions.

Okay, well,.

In the 3rd chapter, there's a force that encouraged us to do... So I wanted to be able to... It's not just in what he did, and there's a danger there. I think there's a lot of people who love my... This was never meant to be used to tickle ears.

Not like, you know, some soft, happy days, happy days, but in this sense. Ideas, the doctrines of grace, and you, you learn the history, that your neighbors...

But what he wanted,.

And what he labored for, was not just our brains, but our dead, and our trespasses,.

And sins,.

That we would understand that we're still in the midst of a great battle. That's why that day, I'm really glad...

Amen.

I want to, also, give a plug to a ministry that helped me enormously. I share with you a past of sin that became quite scandalous in my church, and in my town. I was rescued from the sin of drunkenness, habitual drunkenness, to a very serious and extreme level, and thanks be to God, I was put under church discipline, and that actually saved my life, and I enrolled myself into a ministry in Boone, North Carolina, called Hebron Colony Ministries, and I just want to shout the praises of Hebron Colony Ministries to people listening.

I always do, whenever I get the opportunity to. That's hebroncolony .org. That's H-E-B-R-O-N colony .org. I know that some people pronounce that Hebron, but I hope that any of you listening who are struggling with enslavement to drunkenness, whether you are a man or a woman, Hebron Colony is for men only, but they do have a sister ministry in Santee, South Carolina, called Grace Home.

In fact, a member of the former church where I belonged recently graduated from the sister ministry, Grace Home, and I was so thrilled to find out that she is rejoicing as someone freed from that addiction and that enslavement, but hebroncolony .org is the website.

I just wanted to throw that in there because I am so, I still, every time I think about that ministry, I thank them for, in part, saving my life.

Well, absolutely, and obviously we all need to stop and thank our Lord for saving us.

I'm reading your story.

And just praising God for His grace.

Amen.

I want to also now give our email address for anybody listening who would like to ask a question of R .C. Sproul Jr. regarding his life growing up with the world-renowned R .C. Sproul, and the book specifically, again, is Growing Up With R .C. Truths I Learned About Grace, Redemption, and Holiness, and the Holiness of God.

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com and please, as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. One thing that I want to ask you about. I believe I have an idea of why you titled the book this way, but I'd like you to explain it in your own words.

Growing up, in parentheses, with R .C., and I know that must have something to do with the fact that you share your dad's name.

Yes. I think myself far too clever, and there's some discussion, not a lot, but there's some discussion.

In the book.

Because I get this question a lot about what it's like to have my dad.

Grace, Redemption, and the Holiness of God in the Book and in Life

And one thing I want to do, because I view a couple of these people extremely highly, not that everybody who wrote an endorsement also should not be thought of very highly, I just don't know them, but Johnny Erickson Tata, who I had the pleasure of meeting, and I'm looking forward to hopefully interviewing her one day.

She's one of the people on my list that I have not yet interviewed that I would love to interview. I have, though, had a wonderful meeting with her years ago, and she has also written commendations for the aforementioned Calvary Press Publishing, where I work part-time.

But she says, Johnny Erickson Tata, founder and CEO of Johnny and Friends, she says, Christians are a work in progress. We are all broken and require redemption, and not just when we first believe. Stories like R .C. Jr.'s show us the path to healing and restoration, and often how that path guides us along so that we understand God's truth as it really is, especially when shared with compassion through the touch of a loved one like R .C. Jr.'s father.

There's an amazing story of a wise father and a searching son who both understand the power of grace to change and heal. I highly recommend this wonderful book. And then, one of my favorite guests, who I have had the privilege to interview on a number of occasions, Dr. George Grant, pastor of Parish Presbyterian Church in Franklin, Tennessee.

And if you're listening, Dr. Grant, I am, God willing, going to be in Franklin, Tennessee at the end of this month if things go according to my plans. I don't know if they're going to go according to God's plans or not.

But Dr. Grant says, R .C. Jr. has long been my friend and yoke fellow. His father has long been my mentor and hero, reading the story of their lives together made me laugh and cry, rejoice and repent.

Somehow, R .C. Jr. writes, with an exceedingly rare combination of gospel humility and gospel boldness, this book is not to be missed. Quorum Deo. And I'm not going to announce your email address on the air, but that phrase is obviously very important to you, as it should be to all Christians.

But if you want to share what that means to our listeners...

Oh, just give it to the editor for 25 years.

Amen. And we have several of our listeners already waiting to have their questions asked and answered by you. I'm going to read one, and then I'm going to have you answer it when we return from the break.

Okay.

We have Osinachi from Lagos, Nigeria, who says, Please ask your guest if he feels under any pressure to match up to his father's profile and image. And you can answer that when we return. And just a reminder, our email address for anybody else who wants to get in line with your question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com, chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

And always, please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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So please remember for the holidays or any other special event where you want to give a gift or even just to add to your own library never forget Solid-Ground-Books .com. Solid-Ground-Books .com. We are now back with my guest today R .C. Sproul Jr.

We were discussing his new book Growing Up With R .C. Truths I Learned About Grace, Redemption and the Holiness of God. If you'd like to join us on the air our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. And as always always give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

And we do have as I said before Osinachi from Lagos, Nigeria or Lagos, Nigeria who asked please ask your guest if he feels under any pressure to match up to his father's profile and image.

I had two sons at the University of UCF to play in the NBA. So here you've got these guys. But everybody knows nobody has to expect the new Michael Jordans because you just can't. He's Michael Jordan.

Hey, my father and I do the same thing in the same way we made flying machines. When I'm not saying then when you you know, make you feel like but again God didn't put me to follow my son.

Shout out.

It's a battle but I still.

Well, Osinachi we are giving away thanks to our friends at Ikthus Press or the Ikthus Publications we are giving away copies a limited number of copies to listeners who email questions during our live broadcast.

Unfortunately, we do not send these books on the show to overseas guests because CVBBS .com our sponsor that mails those books out to our listeners. They would be put out of business if all the people overseas won books and they had to ship them overseas.

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Thank you very much for listening and keep spreading the word about Iron Shepard's Iron Radio in Nigeria and beyond. Before I go to any other listener questions I do want to hear more about your earliest memories of growing up with your father things that you perhaps highlight in your book things that are of utmost meaning and importance in your mind.

I have a feeling that your dad well in fact I don't even have a feeling I know that your dad had a wonderful sense of humor not that I was hanging around your home with him but even in public he demonstrated that and in fact I made your dad roar with laughter in the basement of Calvary Baptist Church of Manhattan during a refreshment break when I imitated John Gersner.

For him but.

Tell us something about your earliest memories.

I mentioned in that.

That the day.

That I was born my parents were planning to give me a different name.

Than R .C.

By the way brother sometimes you get a little muffled so if you can make sure that your mouth is always near the microphone or the phone receiver or whatever you're using. I'm sorry.

Okay. That's okay.

You're much better right now.

That night.

Go back.

A minute or two my father's father died when my father was 17 and his mother who finished the job of raising him would be a male heir that my dad would be ordained to God the day that the invitation. And that night my dad's mother finally lost his last parent.

As well.

That was a very hard day that of course I don't remember. Provided for theology as I grew older I reckon between there was the time of footlocker for my father's.

Youth.

Letter jackets and trophies and newspaper I was about.

Today.

Way back in the dark ages when they didn't have you strapped in bubble wrap any time you left the house over the back seat of the guy who keeps me fit five years.

Old each.

Of the first time up for me to get.

In uh.

Since then.

That and.

You know.

And he was able to take.

Me again.

Which is pretty amazing.

We actually have a question that involves your dad's golfing. We have a question from Ronald in eastern Suffolk.

County Long Island.

New York who said I don't know if this is an urban legend but was your father really a friend of Alice Cooper who he met while golfing.

Well.

It's uh I would say it's not an urban legend but that might be a little bit of a slight exaggeration of the reality of the relationship. Lee and every year Ligonier not only had a San Diego as well and this particular gym or something like that would.

Just be wall to wall with.

Books and tapes and attendees are.

Sort of and I.

Start hearing all this whispering going on and finally the message got a ponytail and I said Alice Cooper no eye.

Makeup.

Well the conference ended like normal on a.

Saturday.

Afternoon and later that afternoon my father and a dear friend of.

His who was on.

The staff.

At Ligonier and they.

Both went for a while they were.

Out on.

The course they're around together and enjoyed each other. Make reference her time of touring while he did this teaching with his game. And on and there's my day isn't that you actually.

Inform me of something that I wasn't certain about. I knew I knew that. Alice Cooper.

And by the.

Way for our listeners who are millennials or younger you have no clue who we're talking about. Alice Cooper is a man that's a stage name. He was very big in the.

1970s.

Especially as a as a rock star known for the macabre he had theatrical productions during his concerts that.

Were very.

Much like a Halloween event and you are informing me of something I did not know you're saying that he was.

Converted.

Yes.

Absolutely.

Oh I didn't I didn't know that for certain anyway. I had like a a question mark over my head about it because I heard him.

Once in an.

Interview talking about his wife's faith but tell us I mean is he theologically sound is he going to a good church.

I believe so I mean it's at least an evangelical church. It might be Baptist but we can hope for.

Him getting.

Yeah I remember you and I having a little bit of tension over my reformed Baptist background but well that's that. I'm very happy to hear that being somebody who used to love as a teenager listening to Alice Cooper.

It's good to hear that we have. In fact I'm going to do this again. I'm going to read a question and then since we have to go to our midway break I'll have you answer it when we return from the break.

David in Albuquerque New Mexico who I believe is a first-time questioner. I don't know if he's a first-time.

Listener but.

He's a first-time.

Questioner.

Let's see is there another favorite series of your father that we might be surprised by. That's part one of his question. Part two is is there a topic your father wanted to cover but he never had enough time.

Not sure what he means by series if it's a lecture series or written series. I'm not sure which he means. Maybe both but so if you remember those two questions about is there a favorite series of your father that we might be surprised by and also is there a topic he.

Wanted to.