Realities of Revival II: The Means of Revival

Welcome to the Whole Council Podcast. I'm Jon Snyder, and with me this week, again, is Teddy James, who is normally on the other side of the camera, but Teddy has agreed to be with me through this short series on a topic that is often misunderstood or neglected, but it is one of great sweetness to the believer and one that requires real carefulness and wisdom, and that is the topic of revival or extraordinary seasons of grace, and last time we left off with mentioning some good books that people could read, and I didn't give these two because these are not really books that I'm going to recommend someone reads because they are reference books, but I want to call your attention to them because they're so unusual.

These are two annotated bibliographies, and they were...

Explain what an annotated bibliography is.

A bibliography, if you think back at when you were stuck in school and you had to write a book report, or you had to write, you know, a small paper, at the back of your paper, if you quoted anybody, you had to give the bibliography what book, okay?

So what books you used in the producing of your paper. So these are simply lists of books that exist and where you can find them in the world's libraries. This was all assembled pre-internet. This was the work of a few decades by Richard Owen Roberts, and really I think he should have been given an honorary doctorate just for this because it's quite a feat.

He traveled the Western world, and you know, in Britain and America in particular, and went to these libraries and the books that he had purchased over decades, and he assembled a list of books on revival or books about Whitefield, either by Whitefield, by Whitefield supporters, or by Whitefield's critics, and I have actually read these two books.

And Mr. Roberts said that he assumed that it was me and him and his wife Maggie that we would probably be the only ones that read them because she proofread them for print. But I want to just point out, this one is called An Annotated Bibliography of Revival Literature, so this deals with the revival any century that Mr. Roberts was able to locate, and so it has nearly 6 ,000 entries.

So I'm gonna hold it up, I don't know if the camera will be able to catch it. So what you have is, for instance, here's one by Cotton Mather, early American minister, and this is the 3 ,597th entry, but we have Cotton Mather, The Triumphs of the Reformed Religion in America, The Life of the Renowned John Eliot, a person justly famous in the Church of God, not only as an eminent Christian and an excellent minister among the English, but also as a memorable evangelist among the Indians of New England, with some account concerning the late and strange success of the gospel in those parts of the world, which for many ages have lain buried in pagan ignorance.

Written by Cotton Mather, this edition is 1691, it's 152 pages, and then Mr. Roberts gives, through his abbreviated way, he has a way of listing libraries, he gives about nine that you can find these in in the world.

It is an amazing resource. By the way, that really long paragraph I read, that was the title and the subtitle. So if you want to know about a genuine revival or an extraordinary season of grace that occurred when an early American minister, John Eliot, was preaching to the Indians before David Brainerd, before other missionaries that we know better, not just that he was a Reformed man as a missionary to the Indians in America, but he experienced some extraordinary success.

John Cotton recorded it. You can find that book, you can probably find it more easily on Google Docs, but you can find that book and you can read. And so there are 6 ,000 of those, and the Whitfield and Print, over 8 ,000.

So quite amazing resources, you know, really for those that want to do some pretty significant reading. So John, we've.

Defining Revival as Extraordinary Work of the Holy Spirit

Talked about a lot of different books, and they're fantastic books, but if you were to give a very simple and very succinct definition of what revival is, without having to, you know, pour through 8 ,000 entries, can you give us a very.

Simple working definition of revival? I'll give two, and these are both pretty to-the-point. They're certainly shorter than the titles of the books I read. This is by Richard Owen Roberts in his little book on revival, and he says in using the term revival, which in his first chapter he says, I'm not saying this, and he gives a lot of nots.

Not, not, not, not. So what are you saying? I am speaking of an extraordinary movement of the Holy Spirit, producing extraordinary results. So an extraordinary movement of the Spirit, an extraordinary work of God that produces extraordinary results.

Now in the book, The Revival of Religion by the Scottish ministers, they give a definition, I think it's also helpful. They say this, revival is an unusual manifestation of the power of the grace of God in convincing and converting careless sinners, and in quickening and increasing the faith and holiness or piety of believers.

So an unusual display of the power of God's grace that both awakens and saves unconverted, unbelieving people, but it also shakes, it revives, it stirs the sleepy church and makes their faith and holiness to increase.

Well John, we've seen that. We see God convert.

Sinners, we see Him wake up sleepy churches and sleepy believers on, you know, every Sunday. So what makes revival different from those times? That is.

Revival as the Same Redemptive Work Raised to a Higher Degree

Probably the million-dollar question, you know, because if you get the answer to that wrong, then you are on a wrong path that it is very hard to recover from. No matter how much you want God to be honored, no matter how much you want His kingdom to spread, no matter how much you want the lost to be converted and the church to be awakened, if you answer that question wrongly, then it's nearly impossible to see that accomplished in a healthy way.

There will be so much error. So the simple answer, and I'm grateful to say that it's clear in history and in Scripture, the simple answer is that it is not different fundamentally from the work that God does in all the other aspects of redemption.

So as New Covenant believers, we are experiencing things that Christ purchased for us, that the Holy Spirit is applying to us, that the Old Testament was prophesying and foreshadowing and preparing us for, that the New Testament so clearly explains not just in the teaching of Jesus but in the epistles where in perfect ways we see, this is how I live on the provision of Christ and through this New Covenant applied by the Spirit.

So when we look at what God does in the lives of people, those fundamental things, conviction of sin, you know, breaking our hearts, convincing us that what Christ says is true, and enabling us to believe with all our being Him that we've not yet seen, we've never touched, and yet we love Him, Peter says, with joy unspeakable.

So conversion, repentance and faith, the new birth, the conviction that precedes that, the drawing, the convincing, you know, uniting us to Christ, filling us with hope in giving us what we need moment by moment for enduring sanctification and finally completing that.

All those wonderful things that we think of as the normal work of God, if you have a right view of the normal, just because we've grown up in churches that may not have seen this occur regularly does not mean that that's not normal.

I think most of us would say we grew up in churches that were probably beneath the norm, but the wonderful ordinary work of God through the gospel applied by the Spirit and the agency of His Church, well, that's really the same thing that revival is, except for one difference.

The degree. Revival is that raised to a degree or a level that is extraordinary. It is not the normal Christian life. If you read the accounts of Whitefield or of Edwards or of the Welshman or the Scots, you know, during those centuries, the 17th, 18th, 19th centuries, you see things, you know, you see how maybe they had all-night prayer meetings or maybe the sermon went on for hours and hours and nobody even noticed the passage of time.

Daniel Rowland in Wales was preaching and he was so wonderfully used, and Rowland said in one unusual sermon, this wasn't the norm, he started preaching and the sun was shining in, you know, the windows on one side of the building, and he ended the sermon and the sun was starting to shine in on the other.

So, you know, what was that from 10 to 3, you know, and he said there was no sense of the passage of time. We find that that described over and over. It's like God invades space and time, and that's all that we are aware of, and he accomplishes the normal things.

Conviction, salvation, sanctification, but they are accomplished at a rate that is extraordinary. I remember one minister in Wales who met, when he was a young pastor, he pastored some of the people who had lived during the 1904 -05 Welsh revival, which was certainly not a perfect revival, and we'll talk about imperfection in revival in coming podcasts, but he met some of those that were genuinely affected by that, and they lived godly lives all the way to the end.

And by the time he was in his late 20s ministering, they were, you know, very old, and they gave him eyewitness reports. He actually pastored the sister of Evan Roberts, who is one of the more famous preachers of the 04 revival in Wales.

And what this pastor, his name's Vernon Hyam, what Mr. Hyam said about revival, he said it's like being chauffeur-driven. It's as if, you know, we're going about doing all the normal work of the church, we're witnessing, we're praying, we're visiting the sick, we're trying to encourage a struggling Christian, we're warning a Christian who is drifting into dangerous territory.

All of that is still going on, but it's like suddenly, we're not driving the car, it's like God drives the car, and it's chauffeur-driven, and things are accomplished at a rate which we could not imagine.

In the Great Awakening in the United States, some ministers complained about the awakening because they were, I think we would say they were compromised, they had grown lazy in the ministry. Maybe they weren't truly converted.

But they complained because they said, and these are men that did not agree with the revival, they said, because of Whitefield's coming and preaching, or because of Edwards, or you know, or Frelinghuysen, and whoever it is, you know, the Tenet brothers.

I have more work to do in a week than I have had to do in my whole previous year. So suddenly you have people beating on your door, you know, at 1 a .m. or at 5 a .m., and they want to talk about their soul.

Yeah, they say, hey, before I go to work, Pastor, I've got to tell you, I've got to have your help, can you help me find Christ? And the minister is thinking, why are people waking me up all hours of the night?

And it goes on and on and on. More people in a week than we had in a year, more people in that year than I had in the decades previous. And so not everybody liked the consequences of God drawing near, but it is the same work lifted to a higher level.

Let me give one other illustration. If you think about, let's use the metaphor of a beautiful garden, and I'm thinking British garden, not American garden, right? So don't think of peppers and, you know, tomatoes and squash.

Think of flower garden. So you walk out in your backyard, and you've got this big space, and you think, you know, I want to do something with this. I want to try my hand at planting. And so you begin to plant, and you lay it all out, and you Google everything, and you watch all these things on television, and you just do, and it takes so much work.

And getting the land prepared, and planting, and getting it all fertilized, and that's the easy part. The hard part comes from the rest of your life tending to it. One time I planted, the first time that I owned a house was when we came to New Albany so that I could pastor here.

My wife and I, it's our first house we owned, and I like roses. So I said to my wife, I'm going to plant rose bushes for you. I don't know if they were for her or for me. I planted 16 rose bushes. After a couple of years of having to go out and spray those every time that we had a good rain in Mississippi summer, which is like every three or four days, you know, we have that kind of midday rain, and you know, to get the fungus off the leaves, etc., to prune them.

I was so sick of those roses by a year, two, or three, that I mowed quite a few rose bushes under, all right? We can think about planting and all the hard work, but if you're a better planter than I am, you know, you can create a beautiful garden.

But that's a picture of the normal work. Ministers, people on the pew, all true believers, living, studying, applying the Scripture, speaking to the people next to them, praying, you know, looking for opportunities for the work of God to go forward by their witness.

That's a lot of hard work, and it does produce a wonderful garden under the, you know, the blessing of the Holy Spirit. But that's not revival. Revival is more like another thing. Revival is still using our metaphor.

It's still like plants, beautiful plants growing, but it's not us doing all the hard work and we see a good result, you know, the wonderful.

Result that we hoped for. Well, because when you say it's not us doing the hard work, we're still doing the work. We're still doing the normal things that we do,.

Right? We're still going about the normal means, yes, normal methods, but it's not us producing the extraordinary result, and so let me give an example. Compare that landscaping illustration with what I'm about to say.

In the city of Cardiff, Wales, where my wife and I and our kids lived for a few years while I was doing research, there are a number of scenic spots, and one of the scenic spots is a hill on the edge of the city called the Wynolt, because George Whitfield talks about going over it, as well as Hal Harris, and there's...so, you know, when you're walking on this hill, if you're a student of revival history, it's just so thrilling.

I think, what if Whitfield walked the same path? And I would go out there occasionally with my Bible early, early in the mornings, and I had to drive to the edge of the city, and I would just get out there before the British people started walking their dogs, and the Brits aren't always as early to get up as Americans, okay?

So I had a long stretch of nobody, and I would sit on this big flat rock and read my Bible and write in my journal, and it was wonderful. I remember going out a few times. I didn't go out every week. I didn't even go out every month, but I remember going out a few times, and then there was a long break because of the winter, and it's just mud, and then towards spring, I went back out, and I was astonished.

This forest that the trail leads through, this forest was covered in a carpet of purple. It was... they were bluebells, and they were everywhere on the forest floor, everywhere except the path, under every tree.

There was no part of that forest that wasn't covered in bluebells. It looked like someone came and laid some artificial, you know, prop, some Hollywood prop down, that someone just laid down this carpet of purple flowers, and I thought about it, and it's much like the difference between the normal work of the church and when God comes and causes that normal work to be extraordinary.

It would have taken thousands of workers a long time to get that many bluebells planted and up and beautiful, but for God, it was overnight, you know. It was something that happened naturally, and of course, and it looked like, wow, in a few moments, in a few days or maybe a week of springtime, suddenly there is a forest of flowers prettier than anything we could do, and it was, you know, it's like it surprised me.

And oftentimes, that's what revival is. Another way of describing it is as if a nation were born in a day. It is an extraordinary rate of success of the gospel, an extraordinary growth among God's people, so that, you know, looking back, it's not exactly like this, but it feels like we were in darkness before, and then there was a sunrise, and the whole land is covered in light.

And that's often the illustration that some of the 18th century and early 19th century men used to describe what revival felt like. It was like a dawn instead of us carrying around candles at night or flashlights, it's like God sent the dawn, and it feels as if it is occurring in a moment compared to the ordinary, slow work of a church.

There is something in my heart that now just burns and just says, okay, Lord, send revival now. So John, talk to us about, you know, how do we seek and.

Seeking Revival Through the Ordinary Means of Grace

Pray for revival? Well, what these men pointed out in the book Revival of Religion, what we've talked about, the fact that the work of revival is the same kind of work, same categories of work that God does in salvation, except it's lifted to a much higher degree, so it's extraordinary in its impact or its, you know, the swiftness of its accomplishment.

That's different. But since it's the same basic kind of thing, then that means we use the same methods, and that, of course, is where we immediately see a lot of carelessness. It's just natural to us to think that if we're going to have a revival, that we've got to have revival methods.

I grew up thinking that that was inviting a more dynamic preacher than my pastor normally is, and of course it includes inviting a dynamic singer, usually a family of singers. I don't know where those families live, but Sniders are definitely never going to own a bus that says, the Sniders, and we arrive and start to sing.

You know, we would be paid not to sing. Our little family worship times, you know, it's just sanctifying to have to listen to all of us listen to each other sing. We'd have this fancy family show up, they all played five or six instruments, the preacher was really dynamic, and you know, the altar calls were gripping, and you know, you would be able to report at the end of the week, 50 people saved this week, and it was a success, but that's not what we're talking about.

What do we normally do? We study the Scripture, we pray, we cry out to the Lord for Christian and for unbeliever. We cry out that God would make us to be a very clear billboard of what He can do so that our lives don't clash with the words that we're saying about Jesus.

Wonderful comments about your Lord, pretty puny fruit, you know, if that's the best He can do, I'm not so interested. So we use the means that God has given us. The Word, prayer, fasting, worship, you know, even the Lord's Supper, baptism, church discipline, fellowship with other believers, all of these things, we use them as fully as the Bible would have us use them.

So for example, Mr. Roberts has often mentioned that one of the things we can do is use baptism, or the Lord's Supper in the right way, and instead of just treating it like it's a thing that we do every week, or every month, or every quarter, what if the preacher began to prepare the church for the celebration of the baptism of a believer, and the believer gives, you know, a significant testimony.

We don't just say to them when they get down in the baptistry, you know, are you a Christian? Yes, sir. Did you ask Jesus into your heart? Yes, sir. Where is He right now? In my heart? That's right, Johnny.

And based on this testimony and the authority invested in me by this church, I baptize you, you know, in the Trinitarian name. Well, what if Johnny was allowed to, you know, to be discipled before the baptism, was allowed to have time in front of the church, and in his own way, whether he's a 15-year-old, a 12-year-old, or a 80-year-old, that he is allowed to explain to the church, this is how God saved me.

And, you know, according to his ability to just be so clear with the people, and that to be approached prayerfully by the entire church, and, you know, Johnny's friends and his family who don't go to the church and don't really get excited about Christ at all, they are there, and they see that baptism, they hear that testimony, they hear the sermon, they see the people thrilled at the baptism, you know, the Christians, they see changes in this young person or old person that follow week after week after week.

What a wonderful tool. And that's just one thing. So what Richard Owen Roberts has said in the past, and I think it's the simplest way to answer your question, is to make an extraordinary use of the ordinary tools or means that God has given us to promote His kingdom, because we need an.

Extraordinary work. John, I mean, that sounds good, but I mean, can we see that in history? Can we look back and see examples of that? Yeah, I think that it's.

Crystal clear. We see it in Scripture. You think of the accounts in 2 Chronicles, when Hezekiah sees how his father, a wicked man, has led the nation into idolatry, and all that has come from that as judgment from the Lord, to get their attention.

When young Hezekiah in his 20s sees this, his response is not ordinary. He doesn't say, you know, I feel like I need to make sure that I don't skip my 20-minute quiet time today, and I'm gonna show up at church on Saturday, and I'm gonna talk to my friends that, you know, live next door to the palace and invite them to the youth special this week.

No, the need is extraordinary. At times there are times in history where we feel that the ordinary work of the Lord is just not enough, and we're asking God to show up and to do something to turn a nation, to turn a denomination, to turn a church, to turn a family, a marriage, or your own cold, dry soul, to turn it to Christ.

And so the desperate need is then matched by the extraordinary seeking, and we see that in Scripture, and we also see it in history. One example I want to give is this book, The Revival of Religion. In the introduction, and in chapter 1, there's a lot of talk about these kind of things, and I believe it's in the introduction, where it's mentioned that in their day, in the 1840s, leading up to that revival, the churches did do something different.

And they give three things that they did. Number one, now remember, these are churches that are already preaching pretty long, theologically serious Reform sermons. These are Church of Scotland men. And the people are already being called to repentance, the Christians are already being told that their lives impact the people around them, so they're doing the ordinary things of the Christian life.

This is what was added. Number one, the preachers began to call attention to the doctrine of revival in their preaching from the pulpit. So they began to deal with texts that described the need for God's nearness, how would we seek that nearness, what would we expect from that nearness, and they did it first from Scripture.

So again, those passages that describe where God describes who may draw near to Him. The Reformation and Revival under Asa in 2nd Chronicles. Asa leads the nation to repent, to put their idols down in the dirt, to destroy them.

Even his mother has an idol she's hiding, and he deals with that. He calls the people, not just in Judah, but even the the tribes in Israel, which are not under his rule, he's the king of Judah to the south, hey, if you're sick of worshiping the golden cows up north, come here, we will seek the Lord, and many of them came.

He even sent messengers into non-Jewish areas, come seek the Lord, and they did, and at the end of that account it says, the Lord let them find Him. When they cried out to Him in a covenant with one voice, one heart.

So there are a lot of lessons there, it's not a formula, but there are lessons. If God is unchanging, this is a way to seek Him that is appropriate. He's still sovereign, and He will bring and reward and give and respond as He chooses.

We can trust Him to do what is best, but we see some very good principles in the biblical accounts of seeking. But that's not, okay, let me in the accounts of biblical seeking, but that's not all they did.

They didn't just call attention to biblical passages. Second, they said the historical accounts of revival were recovered from neglect. So the people had quit reading those biographies, they had quit reading about Seasons of Unusual Grace.

They still read Christian books, but just not books about real revival. So they were recovered from neglect, they were republished by the denomination, and they were encouraged in the church. So the pastor said, if you haven't read Jonathan Edwards over here, his book on, you know, the nature of a narrative of surprising conversions, where he talks about young people especially being wonderfully saved in the midst of that revival, if you haven't read that, well, there is a new edition.

You can now get that here in Scotland, and we encourage you to read it. Third, prayer was called for in an extraordinary way. Public prayer, family prayer, private prayer. Robert Murray McShane reported that in his church, as the people were beginning to be stirred by the hunger for revival and the beginnings of it, he said there were 39 separate prayer meetings that occurred.

Some of them were just children meeting, and so it wasn't every prayer meeting wasn't a gathering of the entire church. It might have been, you know, businessmen at lunch, or moms in the evenings, or dads before they go to work, you know, or it have been everybody, you know, in the gathered services of the church.

So those are some wonderful things we can do. We can point people to passages that help us understand the nature of seeking God in this way, we point them to the historical accounts, we get good books into the hands of the people, and we lead out and encourage extraordinary prayer for God to come and do what must be done.

If He is to be honored in our day. So let's say that we do all of that. I mean, John, here at our church, Christ Church New Albany, we have prayer meetings, and we have had, you know, even recently we had a day of fasting in the church, and it was such an incredibly sweet time.

We read careful books, I mean, we have access to these revival books. We speak with you, and we cry out for revival, and things do happen, but how do we judge when it is, you know, that slow methodical work, and it's just that bearing ordinary fruit, versus this is.

Discernment: Ordinary Fruit, Gentle Visitation, and True Revival

Fruit of a revival? Yeah, in the early days of the church, about three years in or so, we had a number of conversions that occurred, and they occurred so rapidly among adults who had been very religious before they came to the church, and then among some of our young people, our college-age kids, that one man in the church, who is now one of the pastors in the church, asked me, did I think that was revival?

And my answer was, I did not. I thought it was the wonderful ordinary, which we were not used to. Now, 23 years into the church, so maybe probably 19, 18 years after that event, I think I would say it wasn't what we would call the manifest presence of God in that extraordinary way, but I would say maybe what the British people call it was a gentle visitation.

I do think it was an unusual level of work being accomplished. If you think of it agriculturally, we would say it was a time in which, you know, we were doing a lot of harvesting, not a lot of plowing.

So there are various seasons, and to try to be too strict about our descriptions, well, that's revival, that's just a gentle visitation, that's the normal. Three categories, where do you divide them? Well, that would be pretty difficult, you know, this is an organic thing, you know, God working in us, differing levels, degrees where we notice that work, and so I wouldn't want to be too strict on that.

But I think that one way we can judge the claims of a people that say, we are having revival at our church. I don't mean we scheduled a revival, I mean, whatever Spark did, something extraordinary is happening, and it's a revival, and you ought to come and see it, and get in on it, and how do you respond to that?

I think that our response to that, since revival is the same kind of thing, just lifted to a higher level, a higher degree by the Lord, it's the same kind of thing as conversion and sanctification, I think that that helps us in judging.

And I don't mean judging in a sinful way of judging, I mean graciously judging, maybe assessing, you know. So when someone comes to me in our present culture in Mississippi, where everyone gets baptized, you know, by age seven or whatever, and they say to me, my grandson, Johnny, just got saved and baptized this weekend, and, you know, Johnny is six years old.

Can God save a six-year-old? Certainly. Is it more often the case that a young child wanting to please the parent does whatever that church thinks should be done in order to be called a Christian, and the church has affirmed that because they feel that that would be a kind thing to do?

That, by far, is what is happening. By, you know, the majority, I think, of conversions like that end up not sticking. So it's not God's convert, it's our convert. And we mean well. It's easy to make mistakes.

So how do we make those judgments? Well, when someone says that to you, if they say, my grandson got saved, you don't start, you know, pulling out Puritan books and throwing it at them and saying, what fool would believe a six-year-old could be saved?

You know, you go to one of those silly churches, and, you know, you're going to be judged by God for handling conversion in an inappropriate, inadequate way. I mean, we don't do that to people. Sometimes we don't know what to say.

Many times someone has said that to me, and I just think, do I say, great, or do I say, well, I'm not sure? Well, I try not to say either. So, you know, you try to say something that's encouraging, that's good to hear, thank you for letting me know, and I promise you, by the grace of God, I will remember to pray for him and to ask the Lord, you know, if that really is the work of God, that that would just grow and prosper in his life as he grows, to the point that it would erase every question mark anybody could ever have.

Which can be offensive. Yeah, even that can be offensive. Like, well, what do you mean? I just told you he asked Jesus, I led him through the prayer, so he's a Christian, what are you talking about? And in that case, I think you just have to be offensive, you know, in the most kind way, your answer will offend.

So with revival, same thing. We're having a revival here, and our response, hopeful, cautious, prayerful. You know, thank you for telling me about that. You know, revival is a wonderful thing, and I certainly believe, you know, that may be what you're saying, but also, you know, there are counterfeits, and so I will be praying with you, I'm sure, as you're praying, that God's real work would be done and what's being accomplished would endure and show itself to be the real thing.

And one thing that's important to.

Keep in mind, too, is that with that, what you're not doing is saying, I don't believe you, right? It's saying there are counterfeits to be aware of, there are minefields, you know, that we're walking in, and so optimistic, certainly, but.

Cautiously optimistic. Yeah, and I don't think that if a church is not like the that we automatically put them in the category of spurious revival, so that's obviously counterfeit, because they don't have the same confession of faith we do, they don't have the same catechism, they don't have any catechism.

We don't have a monopoly on God's grace. Right, and I remember being in a minister's conference, and it was by invitation only, and the only way I got there was I knew someone that was invited, and so I got slipped in the back, and Mr. Roberts was speaking there, I think Bill Elliff and Jim Elliff were kind of the instigators of it, Henry Blackaby was there, I was just converted, and there was a Q &A time, and one man stood up, and the theme was revival, and one pastor stood up and said, and he was a Reformed guy, as many were in the crowd, but not all, and he said, isn't it true that God only brings revival to those who have good doctrine, meaning Reformed guys?

And Mr. Roberts gave his, you know, characteristic political answer, he would say, well, something like, if you want to believe that, you have a right to be stupid, but no one reading history could say that, and he went on to show that men on both sides of certain theological issues were used by the Lord in revival, and time has demonstrated that both sides of that were genuine works of the Lord.

Now, there are consequences to our error, and all of us have some error. There are consequences to our error, and in our, you know, inadequacies, and so those do show up. It's not meaning that doctrine doesn't matter because it's revival, but God does work in people that aren't just like us, and that needs to be understood.