Cessationism and Continuationism

Sovereign Grace Family Church

1 view

September 2, 2021

00:00: okay we're back and this is the first class in a while that we're timing is working out for us I know we got a few people coming in but I'm going to go ahead and get started because this this is definitely going to take at least our final 20 minutes and the subject of this discussion is going to be cessationism versus continuationism what does the Bible teach and the before we can answer what does the Bible teach we have to define our terms and if I used if I use different terms it might be more readily apparent what I'm talking about because if I went to the average church today and I said how many of you are continuationists and how many of you are cessationists I would probably get a lot of people looking at me with cross eyes and you know not really certain what it is I'm talking about but the more comfortable term that people are used to using is charismatic and non charismatic that's typically the term which is used and that is based on a historical reality back in the early part of the 1900s there was a movement that began it started in Kansas moved through Texas and then out to California where they had what was known as the Azusa revival or Azusa Street revival out of that was birthed what became known as the Pentecostal movement the Pentecostal Church and the idea of the Pentecostal Church was that there was a revival of the gifts that were given at Pentecost now what were the gifts given at Pentecost specifically the gift of tongues so the way that the movement identified itself primarily was through the gift of tongues but it began to also recognize things like miraculous healings and words of prophecy and those other things but it was began really with the concept of tongues out of that grew what became known as the charismatic movement because Pentecostalism moved into being really its own almost its own denomination within Christianity but other denominations began to recognize what was known as the gifts the spiritual gifts of tongues and other things and in the 60s it began to be less hearing the term Pentecostal more hearing the term charismatic because the word charismatic so we get the word gifts and so you would have in the 60s you'd have charismatic Catholics charismatic Baptists charismatic you know the gifts were it saw much more widespread so it wasn't specific to the Pentecostals now these gifts are going around and now it became not whether you were Pentecostal or not or whether your church was a charismatic church but really where it boils down to is the concept of cessationism versus continuationism and here's what those words mean the word cessationism comes from the word the concept to cease so the idea is that at some point in history certain gifts ceased to function in the church that is the concept of cessationism the opposite of that would be continuationism which would say that the gifts all of the gifts have continued to this very day and will continue until Christ returns so in those two the charismatic would fall under the category of what continuationism and the non charismatic would fall under the category of cessationism now our church not to tip my hand but I'll always like to be as honest as I can our church would fall into the category of the cessationist which would mean on an average Sunday morning worship service you won't see people who are standing up and proclaiming in any type of ecstatic speech or what's sometimes called a speaking in tongues you won't have anyone stand up and offer a word of future-telling prophecy you won't have anybody who offers to give a healing or a word of knowledge but you know that there are churches that do that that if you went into it would be expected to be a part of worship that someone would offer a tongue someone would offer a healing someone would offer a gift of prophecy or knowledge a word of prophecy or knowledge and so why did I bring this into our class about the church well I think it should be obvious the reason why I brought it into this class is because this is something that you have to discern where you stand on this issue and I do consider this to be adiaphora adiaphora means I believe this is something that Christians can disagree about and still be in the faith okay adiaphora meaning things that are on the on the outside or what the Bible calls opinions in first Romans 14 talks about it says don't dispute over opinions right so I do consider this to be adiaphora but I do think it's important that you have a conviction about this and know why you hold the conviction that you hold because it is going to affect what church you join yes in my opinion I believe that the biblical and historical support is on the side of the cessationist but I am willing to concede that this is an area where if a person differed with me we would still remain brothers as I said before well that's what I was saying that the the revival that began in the revival and I use that in with quotes because that's what they called it the revival that began in Kansas moved to Texas and then out to California that would have been after I don't know that movie I don't know that movie I know that there were people I might you might be talking about Catherine Coleman but that's but she would have been way after this this is early 1900s Catherine Coleman would have been mid yeah she would have been mid mid 1900s or early mid but here's here's what I want to I drew this picture for you guys not drew it but I drew this on the computer because I wanted to show you the idea of how I think we ought to understand cessationism versus continuationism because if you notice on the left side you have this this green area right here oh sorry lost it let me try that again excuse me having a technical difficulty let me try this one more time let me see if it works okay why isn't it working Bobby is not don't listen I am but my pen is okay okay all right sorry sorry sorry trying to be too technical everybody sees this area right here the the full green side that says all gifts have ceased and then there's a side over here that says no gifts have ceased that's the two extremes there are some people who would say all spiritual gifts have ceased I don't know very many people who take that position but I do know that there are some who do now if that was true everything we talked about in the first part of this class would be null and void because I said people are gifted with service people are gifted with mercy people are gifted with the gift of teaching and the people of administration right so I certainly would not take that but then we look at the other side where it says no gifts have ceased that itself is also an extreme position because most charismatics would not say that because if you sit on an average charismatic down and say do you believe that there are apostles today who have the same authority as the Apostle Paul they would say no so right there they wouldn't say that all gifts have continued because you'd have to say there's at least something specific to the ministry of the Apostle Paul and Peter and John that was different than the ministry of say Keith Foskey or whoever right well yeah but the point is they would make a distinction because here's one of the biggest distinctions and I and I've had this conversation I said do you believe that Scripture is still being written no no the Bible the canons closed okay so you believe that that was given to a specific group of men at a specific time yes it was given to the first century given to the Apostles and their associates they were the ones gifted to write Scripture the Bible says at the end of Revelation don't add or take away so we're not going to add anything else to this word right so right there I don't know very many people who would say that we should still be adding to the Bible I don't know very many people who would say that the apostolic authority of the Apostle Paul or John or any or Peter continues to this there are some especially the have you ever heard of the NAR what does NAR stand for new apostolic Reformation what is the new apostolic Reformation the idea that there's a new apostleship there are new Apostles in the same way that Peter and John and Paul were Apostles there are new Apostles and they make up the new apostolic reference that's why the NAR is so dangerous and I'll say that I'll say it and I again I don't want to hurt people's feelings but the new apostolic Reformation is a hyper charismatic group because they believe that the gifts that Paul and Peter and John and all the rest had have been revived today and rest in a new set of hands so that is that would be this this side here so I would say no to that so now we have to come to the mid section we've said we don't believe all gifts have ceased because we believe service and that continues and even the charismatic would say not all gifts have continued so then we come to the middle and we say okay some gifts have ceased first one is the gift of being an Apostle capital a Apostle on the same on the same footing as Paul and John and those right so that would be one everybody would have to agree at least I would assume it would really surprise me if somebody here tonight or if one of you guys came to me afterward and said no I believe there's guys today who have the same authority as a possible yeah so I would be really surprised even even my most charismatic of friends and I do I have friend I minister friends who are who are in charismatic churches continuationist churches and I love them to death but I don't know any of them who would say that that ministry has continued all right so some gifts have ceased I think we would agree the Apostle the gift of being a capital a Apostle on the same terms as John Peter and Paul what's another gift that we would say has ceased okay so the and I'm going to put profit in this sense of a fourth teller or a future teller yeah I don't know who that is yeah all right so let's let's talk about profits for a second because here's here's the big issue with profits and I'm putting capital P profits for guys who believe they're speaking the future again these capital letters help us out so for the capital P profits for a moment who claims prophecy who do we know who claims prophecy I give you a good example a man by the name of Benny Hinn Benny Hinn back in the 90s he claimed that before the 90s was over that Cuba was going to be visited of God with a great revival and Fidel Castro was going to die and that the minister of the gospel was going to take over in Cuba guess what Fidel Castro didn't die in the 90s guess what the ministry did not take heart and root in Cuba and there wasn't a revival in Cuba and he was wrong well what does Deuteronomy tell us about someone who prophesied something it doesn't come true they're false prophets right what you're gonna say yeah Deuteronomy tells us if a man proclaims that he's speaking for God and what he says doesn't come true you don't have to listen to him because he's not speaking for God but he's not the only one I'll give you a few good of a modern example what well Carol camping is certainly a false prophet he proclaimed to know when Jesus was coming back and he missed it several times but I was thinking there are a lot of prophets who are now who a year ago were proclaiming that Donald Trump was going to win the presidency and they said Donald Trump's going to be the president he's going to win by a landslide God told me Donald Trump's going to win guess what someone some of you might argue well he did win and they stole it even if they stole it he ain't president no more even if you're right and he and he did win the vote and they just you know messed it up he's not the president and that's what they said was going to happen so what are they false prophets and here's what they have done here's the dangerous thing is many of these prophets they have said we are not held to the Deuteronomy standard because we're New Testament prophets and New Testament prophets are not bound to the same accuracy as Old Testament prophets and you know what the Greek word for that is baloney it's absolute below that's garbage so that but that is that's the that is something you have to look at because again if you go and choose a church where these things are proclaimed there's prophecy happening in this church and you begin to see that the prophets are making prophecies that are not true how are you going to deal with no but you get what I'm saying brother you go to a church where there are false prophets proclaiming from the pulpit what are you going to do you submitted yourself to the authority of what could be a maniac well yes but my but my point is you're putting yourself in that dangerous condition already like I have a brother I have a brother who who was a police officer brother Adam he's one of our police officers he came to this church in 2008 and one of the things that he did before he came here he sat down with me brought me to his home and he he drilled me and asked me questions over and over and this is why he told me he says I have to be out of the worship service at least two Sundays a month because I work two Sundays a month and sometimes I work overtime and I have to work extra Sundays a month he said there may be times where I'm out of the service one two three Sundays a month and I need to know that when my family's there without me that I can trust you to preach the word that's what he told me and I and he's still here that's what 13 years later the point of it is if you can't trust the man who's preaching that's going to be an issue so I think prophecy is huge that's why I didn't start with tongues right I'm starting with the things that I think are serious issues tongues is an issue but tongues is is really down the line this these people are proclaiming when they say God told me that's it you better be right or shut up because if you ain't right you are in a dangerous place to say God told me all right so prophets the next one somebody said healing all right I'm just going to write down healing now again here's the question that I ask Ed and it's kind of goes with what Ross just said well this is my this is what I'm saying Ed if somebody says to me I believe in healing I believe in healing too but I do not believe that the gift of healing resides in individuals right now here's why and I've taught on this many times I'm having to give I'm giving you the Reader's Digest version tonight if you want to go back to some of my lessons where I've taught three or four weeks on this please feel free it's all I mean our sermon audio page has 1,400 sermons on it a lot of subjects you can go find out about but here's the thing that we see in the time of Christ when healing was done it was always organic it was always immediate and it was always whole organic Jesus didn't heal bad backs and ringing ears Jesus healed withered legs Jesus healed people who couldn't see from birth organic disease you know what the thing we don't see today we don't see soldiers coming back from Iraq with half of their leg gone and miracle workers touching them in the leg grow back that's an organic healing we don't see that you show me that I'll start believing that's not what we see we see guys oh my back was hurting now I feel better my ear I heard Paul Crouch say one time I have had tinnitus for 20 years and at the preaching of Brother Hinn tonight my ears stopped ringing and I wanted to throw my shoes through the television the only thing near me that was big enough to go through it I was so angry I said so what you telling me is that the miracle of God tonight was not all these people in the wheelchairs who are begging to see this man some of them who have driven thousands of miles but your ringing ears were what took precedence in the mind of God shame on you absolute shame on you that's organic disease immediate healing I heard one guy who said he said yeah I got healed back in September and I've been getting better ever since no no no no no you either got healed or you didn't it ain't a HMO you don't get you don't get installments you didn't start an antibiotic you got healed or you did not and the last one is wholeness this one's a big one I knew a guy again know these I love these people but the guy said yeah God healed my wife she had cancer God healed my wife okay where is she now she's dead when did she die last year what she died of cancer but she healed her before but she got it again that's the that's the that's self-deception and again I'm not here to try to convince you I'm just telling you my perspective on this these are the things that make me a not a charismatic I'm not as hardcore as cessationist as you might think because I do believe God does miracles today and I have seen them in men like Scott Phillips who goes to the Indonesian people they never seen a white man before but they are in love with him when he comes because some of their ancestors had dreams about a man who looked different than them that was going to bring a special message and he brought them that message and it changed their whole life so I'm not saying God can't do miracles and I do believe we serve a supernatural miracle working God but the difference between that and some guy who's saying Donald Trump's going to be the president it's not even on the same level yes sir Do you see the way the disciples were healing people at that time? Yes.
21:39: So my thoughts was that the reason why you don't see it anymore is because of the fall.
21:46: The further we get away, our sin keeps us from believing it because God's power is still the same.
21:54: Okay.
21:55: But do you believe that his purpose was to maintain that gift for all time? That's what I'm getting to.
22:04: I'm not there yet but let me finish my final thought on this and it might help clarify what I'm saying because the whole idea of cessationism was that God does miraculous things when he is working in a specific time in a specific place.
22:20: I'll give you an example.
22:20: How many times did God part the Red Sea? Three.
22:24: He parted the Red Sea once.
22:25: He parted the Jordan later.
22:26: But he parted the Red Sea one time and then he parted the Jordan, right? Twice.
22:33: But the idea though, the point I'm making is he didn't do that every year.
22:38: He didn't do that every week.
22:39: He did three, but the Red Sea once, right? How many times do we see miracles in the Old Testament? Over and over and over.
22:48: Not really.
22:54: But over a 40 year period of time, how many miracles did you see? The Old Testament is 1,500 years.
23:02: 1,500 years and you walk through the book of Esther.
23:06: How many miracles do you see in the book of Esther? God's name isn't even mentioned in the book of Esther.
23:12: Right? Job.
23:15: How many miracles do you see? Well, God speaks to Job.
23:19: You could say that's miraculous.
23:22: But the point is I'm saying I believe that there was a particular dispensation of miraculous events that was happening at the beginning of the church for the purpose of affirming the men who were the foundations of the church.
23:38: The Bible says the church is founded upon the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus being the chief cornerstone.
23:43: And how were those men affirmed? By what they did.
23:47: They had what the Bible calls the works of an apostle.
23:51: Credibility.
23:54: So the last one on here would be the gift of tongues.
23:57: Right? And this one I think is the one that people get the most upset about because people will say, well, I've spoken with tongues.
24:09: And it's hard to argue with somebody over an experience.
24:14: Well, I've experienced, Pastor.
24:15: You have an experience.
24:16: How can you question my experience? I've literally heard that very argument.
24:19: Was there somebody to interpret them? But even before that, they would say, this is my experience.
24:25: How can you question my experience? And so this one, time does not allow me to dive into it the furthest.
24:34: But I really think it's the least consequential.
24:37: Here's why I say that.
24:40: When we talk about gifts, if somebody says, I'm a charismatic, I believe in the gifts.
24:47: Okay.
24:48: You got a guy who's telling the future and he's lying? That's dangerous.
24:52: You got a guy telling people he's healing them and he's not? That's dangerous.
24:57: Todd White.
24:59: Yeah, Todd White, legs getting longer.
25:01: No, it's not.
25:03: That's the point.
25:05: When it comes to tongues, tongues is a whole other conversation because the question I have to the charismatic person is why was tongues given in the first place? According to Acts chapter 2, it was given so that the people who did not understand what they were saying would be able to hear it in their own language.
25:28: And here's the thing that a lot of people don't realize.
25:30: Bobby and I talked about this earlier because I pulled up some old research that I had done and it was named Charles Parham, the one who really gave birth to the Pentecostal movement.
25:41: His argument, and I have this from his own words quoted directly from him.
25:47: He said, what we are seeing is a revival of the charismatic gift of tongues or he didn't call it charismatic, he called it the gift of languages whereby we will no longer need to train our missionaries in foreign languages.
26:01: All we need to do is send them and the Spirit will give them the ability to speak.
26:06: So how did he interpret tongues? In the same way that they did in Acts chapter 2 as speaking in other languages.
26:13: But that has changed to what we now call ecstatic speech.
26:19: What's ecstatic speech? When people just make what I call repetitive monosyllabic sound.
26:27: Repetitive monosyllabic sound.
26:29: What is repetitive monosyllabic sound? People make sounds that are not words.
26:34: It's not language.
26:36: Or whatever, whoever.
26:37: They all do a different way.
26:39: Some people do it and it sounds almost like a song.
26:43: It's got a cadence to it.
26:45: But it's repetitive monosyllabic sound.
26:48: And the question I have is what is the value of this? Somebody says, well it brings me closer to God.
26:56: I say, well let me take you to 1 Corinthians 14.
27:00: And it says in 1 Corinthians 14 that the gift of tongues was meant for the building up of the church, not you.
27:09: It's meant to build up the church.
27:10: How is your gift of tongues building up others? That's an important question.
27:17: So, I think tongues is the least consequential because in a sense it's the least hurtful in my opinion.
27:25: You can argue with me later if you want to.
27:27: But ultimately, if somebody says why do you think these gifts were present in the early church and why do you think that they have ceased? I think they were present in the early church to affirm the ministry of the apostles and to affirm the giving of scripture.
27:43: Remember, not only do the apostles found the church but the apostles give us a new set of scriptures.
27:52: Up until A.D.
27:56: 49 when James, one of the first books in the New Testament is written there is no New Testament.
28:03: The New Testament is written somewhere between 48 and 69.
28:08: Some people believe after that but I believe it's between 48 and 69.
28:13: The New Testament is being written and how is it being affirmed? Through the ministry of miraculous gifts.
28:21: I believe that those gifts ceased at the last of the apostles but I will say this if I'm wrong I'm wrong.
28:32: But at the end of the day if somebody else says I believe they continue to this day and I have the gift of prophecy and they're prophesying falsely in the name of God then they're in a much more dangerously wrong position than I am.
28:47: So consider that when you're choosing a church.
28:50: Alright, let's pray.
28:52: Father I thank you for this opportunity I know that this subject is hotly debated Lord so I pray that you would use this time to help us all better understand what you say in your word about this subject and I know Lord that many might disagree some may even choose to reach out with their disagreements but Lord help me and help us as a class to seek what the scripture says about these things and to be confident in what the word of God has to tell us.
29:27: I pray that you would get us all home safely tonight and bring us back together next week to study.
29:32: In Christ's name Amen.
29:37: Yes sir? What's that? No I'm sorry I can't get that to you.
29:48: That's one of our books we use on Wednesday.