Documenting the Rise of Big Brother and More of Anjem Choudary

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:32

Greetings and welcome to the Dividing Line, my name is James White and I had an article that I didn't get to last week that seems to be still very, very relevant to what we face today.

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This was actually only from the 4th of June, so maybe the reason I didn't get to it is because today is

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Tuesday and that was after the last Dividing Line. So anyway, seems like old news all the way back

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June 4th, but German minister who compared gay marriage to incest could be taken to court for hate.

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Lawyer says comments are equitable with similar inhuman statements made 1933 to 1945.

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And Germany, if you want to get somebody in trouble, just bring up 1933 to 1945, there you go.

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But listen to what she said. A German minister could be facing prosecution over comments comparing gay marriage to incest and polygamy.

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In an interview with German newspaper Saarbrücker Zeitung, Annegret Kramp -Karrenbauer,

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Minister President of the Federal State of Saarland, said allowing same -sex couples to marry would open the door for marriage between close relatives or between more than two people.

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That's a fact. That's not hate, that's a fact. She also opposed equal adoption rights, saying a solution to the issue couldn't be found by considering whether someone feels discriminated against or not, but by considering child welfare.

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Wow, sounds like this woman has common sense. Less than 24 hours after the interview was published,

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Berlin -based lawyer and member of Berlin's CSD's board,

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Sissi Kraus, announced on her Facebook page that she had filed charges against the minister.

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At some point, it's just enough, Kraus, who is planning to enter a civil partnership in July, said on her posting, see, it's not enough, it's not enough, they want uber rice.

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Silence, everyone, you must celebrate me. I am super, you must all say it together now or I will sue you.

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That's what you get. The charges Kraus brought against Kramp -Karrenbauer include incitement of the masses or hate speech as well as libel.

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In the document outlining the charges, she draws a comparison between the minister's comments and rhetoric used in the

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Third Reich. In her publicly available comment, the minister -president aligns people living in or wanting to enter a partnership and desiring equality in the form of marriage with incest and polygamy,

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Kraus writes. This comment is not just homophobic anymore, but inhuman.

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And in its content, equitable, similar, inhuman statements made 1933 to 1945.

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Kraus also states Kramp -Karrenbauer's statements cannot be protected under free speech.

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The statement's sole purpose is to express hate for the social group and the people who are a part of it,

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Kraus explains. Defamation is the only thing that matters to the minister. A spokesperson for the

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Berlin prosecuting attorney's office told Gay Star News they were ensuring the charges reached the correct office in the

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Saarland as the charges did not fall under Berlin's jurisdiction. Due to this, they were unable to give any more information on possible proceedings.

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Well, let us hope. Let us hope that, well,

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I'd like to say simple common sense would prevail, but that doesn't, there is no such thing as common sense anymore.

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But just pointing out the facts, the simple facts of what we're looking at now and the obvious reality that those who want to enter into plural marriage are following the exact same steps as those who are pushing the redefinition of marriage and the destruction of marriage, that is the homosexuals.

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Those, I've got an article right here. This is from June 8th, yesterday, ozzy .com,

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kissing cousins and sisters and brothers, why you should care. And it says, incest is still society's deepest root sexual taboo, mainly because the word is so often associated with rape and inbreeding.

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But consensual incest exists and cases like the one that was mentioned in the previous paragraph, et cetera, et cetera, raise these issues.

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And of course it points out, these days though, Hollywood's offerings are packed with homoerotic imagery and commuters are happy to crack open a copy of Fifty Shades of Grey on the morning train to the office.

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It's true. I saw people sitting at the airport, at the gates, they're reading it, they don't have it in a brown paper wrapper or something.

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So if pop culture is anything to go by, and when isn't it, there are some signs that romantic love between family members is slowly becoming less socially outrageous.

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Look no further than HBO's Game of Thrones, which explicitly portrays sex between a brother and sister or scenes of a mother and son in Boardwalk Empire.

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Now I don't know anything about those. I've seen some stuff on, on Facebook about Game of Thrones stuff, but my understanding is that they're all exceptionally vile.

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But anyway, so the point is this stuff's out there.

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It's happening, but you can't say anything about it. You don't, don't say anything about it because you must celebrate me, the homosexual, because I am all important and my sexuality must be, must be celebrated by everyone.

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And we're going to force you to do it, force you to do it. I'm driving in today and I pop on the local, local talk station.

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Did you hear about the Spike TV thing with Make My Day?

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Dirty Harry, Clint Eastwood, Clint Eastwood. Evidently there's something on Spike called the

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Guys' Choice Awards or something. I don't even know how you can have Guys' Choice Awards anymore because how could you limit it?

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I mean, could, could Bruce Jenner still vote in the Guys' Choice Awards? I didn't think we were allowed choices anymore.

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Well, and we're not allowed to have guys or gals. It's all just, you know, we don't want to offend anybody. What was that tweet

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I saw last week? It's all going Dr. Seuss now. It's thing one and thing two. Yeah, I guess so.

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Yeah, yeah, there you go. But you know, I, I used to see stuff on Spike because they had, well, they had

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Voyager on, remember during lunchtime? So they'd have, they'd have, yeah, remember they played all, that's the only way

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I ever caught up with Voyager was it was on during lunchtime in the break room. And so they'd have promotions for stuff.

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So I, I, this guy's choice thing has been around for a while. And so they had

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Clint Eastwood making a presentation of an award to The Rock.

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Huh? Dwayne Johnson. Dwayne Johnson. I like him. He's, he's, he's, he's a cool guy.

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I, you know, I mean, I don't know much about him, but, but he seems to have his head screwed on fairly straight, unlike a lot of people in Hollywood.

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And he seems, seems pretty cool. Anyway. Now, Clint Eastwood's, I think 85 now.

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Okay. He's, he's up there. And we happen to know that he has certain conservative political views as well.

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Remember the empty chair thing he did a while back? So, he, he made a joke, sort of, it wasn't really a joke.

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He was talking about athletes who have become movie stars or gone to television or whatever.

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And he mentioned, I forget who, James Brown, who was a running back or something.

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And then he said, and, and then he said, and Caitlyn, whoever. Yeah, that's, there would be a distinction between James Brown, the singer, and Jim Brown.

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That's irrelevant. And Caitlyn, whoever. Caitlyn, whoever. That's all he said. You're not allowed to do that.

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Spike will remove the joke from the aired edition when it is aired on The 18th.

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You can't even say Caitlyn, whoever. What if he had said Bruce, whoever?

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I mean, the, the, the totalitarians are in control. I mean, you, you could lose your job at the drop of a hat if you dare not celebrate transsexualism, bisexualism, homosexuality, and just, you wait, give it months, and you can add a whole bunch more to that list because that's what's coming.

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But you can't say that or you'll get sued by the homosexuals as in Germany.

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Absolutely unbelievable. Which sort of leads us to yesterday's utter non -news.

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Absolutely utter non -news. But it was all over Facebook, briefly.

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And that was Tony Campolo's announcement of his full acceptance of the redefinition of marriage and homosexuality is a good, wonderful thing.

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God designed it. It's all, it's all good. It's all good. And honestly, when

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I saw it, there've been, there've been a couple times I've seen things on Facebook.

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I'm like, oh wow, look at that. And I'll, I'll, you know, share it or something like that. And then someone said, did you, did you note the date?

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And it's like two or three years old. And everybody's like, why'd you, ah, nevermind, nevermind, ignore me.

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Well, that's sort of how I felt on this, because be perfectly honest with you, I was like, what?

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Tony Campolo hadn't already done that? I thought, I thought he had, he had floated down that river a long time ago.

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You know, all these red letter Christian folks, which, which is a nice way of saying, um, we don't want to actually believe the whole

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Bible. We only want to believe portions of the Bible and of the portions of the Bible that we can isolate from the rest of the

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Bible. And so we can fit our own thoughts and ideas into the red letters and make a

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Jesus who looks wow, a lot like us. Um, and that way we can call ourselves Christians while actually ignoring everything the

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Bible actually says. That's what this red letter Christian thingy is all about. And so I, I was like, really, uh, that's so 2013.

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I mean, I, I thought for sure that he had, he had done that a long time ago.

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Uh, and, um, so, you know, and it's, hopefully by now you're starting to recognize the, the standard, uh, argumentation.

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Well, we've been wrong about things in the past. We were wrong about slavery. We were wrong about interracial marriages.

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Uh, we were wrong about women and leadership in the church. And we've, we've admitted we were wrong about all these things.

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And uh, so, you know, we, we were just wrong about this too. There won't be any biblical argumentation.

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There won't be any discussion about, well, what do you mean we were wrong about slavery? Exactly what do you mean by that?

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I mean, are you actually equating American slavery with Hebrew slavery?

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Because there was huge difference between the two. And so are you saying that it was bad that in the ancient world there was a means of actually staying alive, uh, that then became perverted over time?

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Uh, and, well, actually I'll take that back. It existed before scripture addressed it, but at least in the

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Hebrew context, uh, it was the last chance possibility for survival, uh, which is very different than what it had become in modern times, but you're not, you can't even talk about that.

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What? Facts? History? No, no, no, no, no facts, no history that, that would ruin our feelings and our feelings are all important.

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So let's, let's not worry about facts and history, uh, you know, rationality, not really popular anymore. No, no, no.

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Uh, so let's, let's not go there, but that's what you get, you know, uh, in, in this, uh, in regards to, you know, not long before that some

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Christians even made biblical cases supporting slavery, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, you know, it's, it's just, it's a, it's a template.

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It's like, it's like you can go somewhere online today and if you're a Christian who's decided to give up on actually believing what the

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Bible says about sin and salvation and sexual issues and so on and so forth, use the following as your means of apostasy.

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And then it's this boilerplate, you know, and you just, you can just fill in your name and maybe throw in a few personal anecdotes, but you got to hit these points and then all will be well.

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And that's what Tony Campola did yesterday and I thought he had done that a long time ago. Uh, silly me.

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Uh, how, how did, how did I miss that? But there you go. There was an interesting article,

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I'll just mention it, uh, Edward Schlosser, um, which probably isn't his name, uh,

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June 3rd actually, uh, posted, I'm a liberal professor and my liberal students terrify me.

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Yeah, you better believe it. You better believe it. The, the, the mindset of the millennials, the mindset of the millennials, um, you shall not offend me.

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My safety, my happiness, my safe space is all that matters.

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And we will do everything we can to shut you up. If you in any way, make me feel it is, it is honestly this next generation, not all, but many of the next generation are stuck in pre -puberty mentally and emotionally and develop, develop mentally stuck pre -puberty.

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It's all about me. Uh, my happiness is, is all there is. And I can't handle being an adult.

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I can't handle, um, I can't handle when people, you know, it's, it's when we ran to mommy and said, mommy,

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Bobby said that my nose is big. Remember that? And then when

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I was a kid, one day somebody said to me, dude, oh, they didn't say dude back then.

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Uh, Hey, why don't you grow up? You know, sticks and stones, remember that?

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You know, six sticks and stones, they break my bones, but words will never hurt me. Well, that ain't the case no more now.

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Now words are far worse than sticks and stones. Evidently somewhere along the line, that, that maturing growing experience has gotten lost on this generation.

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And it's now you shall not hurt me. And what they're hurt by is, is enough to leave you going, huh, really?

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You're offended by that. I mean the thinnest skin generation that has ever walked this planet, the thinnest skin, least mature generation has ever walked this planet.

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It's it's shocking. It's, it is absolutely shocking. And if you want to see how that works out,

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I, I won't tell you how I ran across this. Um, but yeah, yeah,

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I know. Uh, for some reason the nets not happened. Happy with today.

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We're recording it. We'll get it uploaded. Um, I think we need to talk to the

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ISP cause it was yesterday. It was the same thing. I had to keep resetting and, and uh, maybe we're having what happened before happened again.

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I, I don't know, but they need to put a work order in on it and see if they can fix it cause it is, uh, it is a mess.

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Um, that's why you might want to always keep track of the audio feed as well, uh, rather than the, uh, the video feed.

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And I'm not playing any videos or anything today anyway, so it doesn't, it really doesn't matter. All you're doing is missing seeing me sitting here in the chair where I'm always sitting anyways.

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Um, I won't mention how I ran across this though. It is interesting that the internet is filled with this now.

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Here is the voice of the surfacely religious,

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I guess that'd be the way to put it. I mean, it's, we, we've, we've said for ages that what calls itself

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Christianity in the United States is filled with nominalism, um, amongst evangelicals, the seeker friendly movement, the surface level evangelicalism where you get somebody to walk an aisle, shake a hand, you know, sign on the dotted line, you know, uh, the

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Southern Baptist churches where the, uh, and it, it caught up to us eventually, the, the back door exit was actually wider than the front door entrance.

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Um, and you know, I was, I was part of a church many, many years ago where, um, you know, thousands of people were baptized.

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The retention rate was ridiculously low. So what we were doing is we were creating thousands of self righteous, righteous hypocrites who had now done a religious right and still had no earthly idea of what in the world they were talking about.

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You almost wonder if one of them isn't on the Dr. Drew show now. Yeah. Really? I'm a Christian.

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Just don't believe any of that stuff. And um, we've said for, for ages that this nominalism,

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Christianity in name only, uh, did not represent the actual numbers of true

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Christians in the land, that the number was much, much smaller than all of the quote unquote surveys said, well, here's, here's the voice of that, that surface level churchy entity that is collapsing so quickly on this issue and is so willing to very quickly move to the other side and adopt a stance of, of attack against the very position that they themselves once held.

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This I don't, I'm not going to give the background of this stuff, but this was allegedly written from within a family, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but it's posted publicly.

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Um, you are a pastor. Your message is supposed to be that of love. By the way, if you're following Twitter, if you could respond to all the people that are saying, did you all die or you're all gone,

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I'd really don't have time to be doing that while I'm on the air. So if you could do that, I appreciate that. Um, you are a pastor.

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Your message is supposed to be that of love. Now stop immediately and go,

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Hey, that's what they said on the Dr. Drew show, right? Um, what is sobering and disturbing to me is that you're so wholeheartedly standing with these men and was talking about Dobbs and a few others who say that so many people out there who just want to be loved and cared for equally without fear of persecution, like everyone else are less than you, less than me, less than anyone else who is straight.

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Now listen to that paragraph for just a moment. Your message is supposed to be that of love.

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Well, that's true. But it's Christian love. It's not the world's love.

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It is love that is defined by God's word, by God's law and by the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is going to be very, very, very different than the self satisfying, selfish man centered love that is all the rage today.

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This is a love that includes discipline, sobriety, self control and self sacrifice.

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It's not a love that the world even begins to understand. So that's the first thing we must be ready to contrast the love of scripture with the love of the world, because the love the world has no longer any objective basis for defining anything, including its own language.

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And so words can be redefined. Words can be changed in an instant.

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Then it says that so many people out there who just want to be loved and cared for equally.

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No. Very obviously, it's not equally. Very obviously, it's in a different way.

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They are not content with equality. They are content.

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They only be content with redefinition. It is foolishness, abject foolishness, to think that what is being asked for is equality in marriage.

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Marriage equality is a lie. It is a lie for the small minded.

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It is a lie for the irrational. It is a lie for those who know nothing about history.

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It is a lie for those who know nothing about ethics and morality. If you want marriage equality, then what you want to do is destroy marriage.

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When you talk about marriage equality, you're not talking about kids being able to marry kids.

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So you don't believe in marriage equality. Most of you, yet, aren't talking about moms being able to marry daughters or sons, or vice versa, or grandparents, grandchildren.

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You're not talking about that. You're not talking about marriage between species. So you're not talking about marriage equality because there are people who want to do all of these things.

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If you are not promoting polyamory and polygamy, you don't believe in marriage equality because there are people who absolutely feel that they must express their love with multiple partners.

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So you don't believe in marriage equality. What you believe in is destruction of marriage.

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Destruction of marriage. You want to not just redefine it, but redefine it so that it becomes emptied of its fundamental and God -given meaning.

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Now, you may not be smart enough. Yes, that's what I just said. You may not be smart enough to realize how you're being used in this.

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And sadly, the majority of people, that's the truth. They have been emptied of their critical thinking capacities.

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And so they think with their emotions rather than with their minds. And they're being used by others whose purposeful intention is the destruction of the

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God -given marriage unit. But you're just being used by them.

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You don't even realize that. That's not your purpose. You're not smart enough to realize it.

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You're just being used. And that is the majority of the society. Because as I've said a thousand times, you've been taught what to think, not how to think.

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The process, the ability to think critically, to listen to another perspective and go, hmm.

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Not simply on the basis of, hmm, I'll have to change to identify that. But instead, the ability to go, here's my worldview, there's their worldview, let's engage in a meaningful discussion to see whose worldview actually lines up with reality.

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No, no, no, no, no, can't, no, can't do that, no. That's not allowed anymore. So here we have this idea, they just want to be loved and cared for equally without fear of persecution like everyone else.

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Everyone else, including pedophiles and those who want to have sex with animals and incest and polyamory and go, don't bring those things up.

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We have to. They're bringing these things up. You know that. You're talking about destroying the lines of morality and sexual ethics.

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And so you have to recognize that there are people using the exact same arguments to promote every single one of these other perspectives.

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You can close your eyes and just, just go, I'm not going to listen. I'm not going to hear all you want. It just demonstrates once again, you're irrational, you're irrational.

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You can't deal with the truth. You can't handle the truth, as someone once said in a movie.

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And then it says that you're saying they are less than you, less than me, less than anyone who is straight.

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See, notice, if you say that someone's behavior is wrong, then you're saying they are less than you.

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That's the mindset. You are dehumanizing them. So any moral judgment, now, of course, this person undoubtedly will ignore the reality that they are saying that Christians are less than the promoters of homosexuality and homosexuality.

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Sexualism, because we're being bigoted and so on. They won't live consistently, but they'll make this kind of assertion.

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You're saying they're less. I'm not saying they're less. In fact, it's just the opposite. Because we're all made in the image of God, we're all going to stand before the judgment bar of God.

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So I'm not saying they're less, but I am saying they will be judged. What makes you think that condemning an entire group of people and claiming they will lead the destruction of society has anything whatsoever to do with Christ teaching to love one another as we love ourselves?

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Now, here again, let's take one phrase from Jesus, ignore what he's quoting, which is

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Leviticus 19, 18. Ignore the context of Leviticus 19, which happens to be the chapter

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I'm preaching on. Started preaching two weeks ago and will be, Lord willing, finishing up or at least making good progress this coming

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Lord's Day. Ignore the reality of where that comes from and the fact that it's right in the middle of sexual, political, moral, ethical law, including in the chapter before and the chapter afterwards, the specific clear prohibition of homosexual behavior.

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Ignore all that, which all of Jesus' hearers would have certainly understood because they actually had read the

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Bible. Ignore all that stuff, transport that out, fill the word love with a meaning

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Jesus would never have understood and would never have promoted. Plop it down in the middle of the unthinking 21st century and voila, you have the essence of the new unbiblical

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Christianity. There you go. There you got it. Now, by the way,

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I don't think this will lead to the destruction of society. I believe it is a clear, obvious sign of the judgment of God that will lead to the destruction of this society.

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It's judgment. That's what it is. I mean, it's sinful, but it's because God's going, you love yourselves that much?

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You reject me so much? Okay, there you go.

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We'll let you do your thing. That's what being given over is all about.

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Do you truly think that if a person is blessed to find a partner in life who will support them, love them as they are without conditions, they're not loving you as you are?

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That's the thing. You see, God made us to seek that relationship in something other than a mirror image.

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There is something centrally narcissistic about homosexuality.

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And everyone in the sound of my voice who has truly entered into a married relationship the way

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God designed it, man, woman, it's the only marriage there is, anyone who has entered into that knows that the otherness of that other cannot be separated from gender.

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So you're wrong. It's not love them as they are.

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It's love them as you want them to be to reflect you back to you without conditions.

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And they are able to affirm to each other, families, friends, and community that they are committed to sharing both joys and sorrows for the rest of their lives.

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We're talking here now about less than 1%, less than 1 % of the quote unquote

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LGBTQRSTUV community, the vast majority of which has no interest in monogamous lifelong relationships.

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No interest. Funny, Campolo, when he came out yesterday, just like David Gushy, forgot to have any kind of call to repentance upon the majority of the homosexual community for its rampant licentiousness.

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I wonder why? I wonder why? Well, because this is part of it. This is the boiler. This is the template. This is what you're supposed to be.

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You just keep putting it out there, putting it out there, putting it out there. And as long as we destroy critical thinking capacities on people's part, they'll just eventually accept it and get so tired of it.

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Get so tired of the whole discussion that they'll be willing to just shut down anyone who's still talking.

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We've been through it. We're past it now. We're so past it. That this will lead to the destruction of society.

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That love that expresses itself differently than yours is going to lead to the end times. No, it's not love.

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First of all, it's selfishness. It's rebellious. It is saying to God, I don't care what you said.

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I don't care what Jesus taught in Matthew chapter 19. I'm wiser than you. I will reject your ways.

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You can call that love all you want. Just don't call yourself a Christian while calling it love. If you want to call yourself a rebellious

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Christian, you want to call yourself a, well, some really odd guy on Twitter a couple of days ago was calling himself an atheistic

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Christian. That was just a joke that I played along with for too long.

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Just come up with another word. I forget what he said his name was, but I said, come up with Bobism or something like that.

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Just stop calling it Christianity. You're not a Christian. How about some truth in advertising or something?

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That way of thinking is dangerous. That way of thinking is destructive. That way of thinking has brought thousands of people to commit suicide every year because they're rejected from their families who are supposed to love them the most.

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I have to wonder how that figures into your evaluation of the sanctity of life, which is ironic given that most of these people are pro -choice and pro -destruction of life.

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But then you have the constant drumbeat. You are killing people.

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The irrationality of this argument. I want to get the numbers. I keep saying

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I need to do this. There might be someone in this audience that would have better access to these numbers.

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I want to know the number, the percentages of suicide amongst pedophiles and amongst those who practice bestiality.

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I want to know. I don't know if maybe such numbers may not even exist, but man, if these folks can come up with these numbers, it's got to be out there someplace.

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Something tells me that pedophiles have a very high suicide rate.

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Now, in a sane society, in a society that has not been given over to its own rebellion and self -destruction, in a sane society, we would go, wow, there's something wrong with bestiality.

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Because suicide does not happen in a person's life who is balanced, whole, and healthy.

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It just doesn't. I mean, people have gone through, have endured incredible things.

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I mean, I read the stories about what people survived during the

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Civil War or during World War II in the Pacific or people who were captured, especially, oh my, the

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Japanese, the way they treated prisoners of war was just unbelievable. You want total depravity.

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But, and yet people survived because they had a reason to.

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They believe their life had meaning and could still have meaning in the future.

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And yet today, if people commit suicide, it's society's fault.

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We can't even, we can't even go, could it possibly be that maybe that behavior is self -destructive and therefore, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

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Can't talk about that. Can't go there. It's obvious. We can't go there because we're in the, you know, 1984 has come and gone and the

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Newspeak Dictionary doesn't have entries for that kind of stuff, you know, that that will be censored and we will not allow that to happen a little bit later on.

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Then this article is the person is clearly in a state of self -deception, absolute self -deception.

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I can tell you something about these wild claims about businesses being forced to serve gay people. If some baker says they don't want to make a gay couple a wedding cake, they aren't going to demand that baker make it.

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They're going to find a baker who will. What I was,

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I was hoping to get to use this, that, that you got volume up. That's this.

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Let me repeat this again. And I finally got this ready to go. If some baker says they don't want to make a gay couple a wedding cake, they aren't going to demand that baker make it.

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What color is the sky in your world? Yeah, that's the question. What color is the sky in your world?

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Because you're not living on this planet. You haven't been reading the news, have you? You really think, do you really think that these people who went to the wedding photographers and the bakers and stuff, they were looking to find

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Christians to persecute. They were looking for these things.

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They were trying to find these folks. They were trying to get these lawsuits started. It was purposeful on their part.

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They weren't just innocent folks just, Oh, I'm so hurt. Come on.

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Are you really that naive? Wow, man, I hope you take folks with you and you buy cars and stuff because if a pastor doesn't want to officiate their wedding, they'll find a different pastor.

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They'll vote with their wallet. No, they will vote with their attorneys. I mean, hasn't reality shown you this yet?

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Pure absolute self -deception here. Then of course you have again, boilerplate template, mixed race messages, slave ownership, the whole nine yards.

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For thousands of years, war has been fought over. For who knows better how to worship God, on which people are the chosen ones and which one should be eradicated from the face of the earth.

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The concept of one group of people deciding who gets full privileges and membership to enjoying the love of God is a deadly one.

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So there can't be just one message. This is the same argument that people use against monotheism.

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Monotheism is the great problem. See, if we didn't have monotheism, let's just go back to the Roman empire. Remember their own empire, they weren't monotheists and everybody got along just fine.

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You have your gods and you have your gods and we're all just, it's all good. Just acknowledge Caesar and everything's all right.

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Christianity was never meant to be an exclusive club only straight people can join. No, Christianity was meant to be an exclusive club that only sinners, repentant sinners, can be joined to by the grace of God.

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Fortunately, millions of Christians and thousands of churches in America know that. They happen of course to be the churches that are crashing and burning membership wise, but there you go.

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Anyway, there is more here, but it's amazing.

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Can't other people see that this is just boilerplate stuff? That there is nothing coherent, rational, or compelling about any of this?

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We haven't lost the argument. We've won the argument. We're just living amongst the people who don't care about truth any longer.

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They don't care about whether something is consistent. They don't care what the result is going to be of something.

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Doesn't make, they don't care. That's just the way it is. So, in Germany, if you dare even point out the obvious, you'll get sued.

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It's coming here. It's already in Canada. It's already there. We all know it. Right across the border.

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And we are, where? We're at the 9th of June. When's the window supposed to be, what?

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Less than three weeks now. For what could very well open the floodgates.

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Absolutely open the floodgates. Now, could there be an overreach that would result in a brief pushback?

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Maybe. But I look at what calls itself conservatism in the United States. It has no moral fiber.

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It has no moral grounding. No more real knowledge of the centrality of the

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Christian worldview to the founding of this nation than the liberals have. The liberals just pervert it.

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The conservatives just ignore it. So, the only thing that will change this nation for the better is absolute revival.

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Absolute, spirit -driven, gospel -based revival. That's the only thing that will change it.

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And, you know, there you go. Someone on the channel says I sound like a theonomist again. Notice I haven't been talking anything about penology.

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That's the issue with me. But God's law is clear.

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I've been wanting to have this for a long time. Tell me, what color is the sky in your world? It's so good.

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Yes. All right, well, only a few minutes left in the program. I went long on all those things.

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But I promised to try to finish this up, so I will try to finish this up.

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And here is, once again, we go back to our favorite Sharia -spewing representative of Islam.

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And, look, I know, I know, I know, I know, not everyone is like Anjum Chowdhury.

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I know. But, sadly, Anjum represents a lot of Islam.

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He represents street -level Islam for many, many people. He certainly is representative of Salafi, the

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Wahhabi Salafi movement. Come on, give Anjum his props. He also seems to,

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I don't know, sort of enjoy promoting himself. But, anyway, we've been listening to Anjum's first rebuttal in his debate with Sam Shamoon.

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And, once again, recognizing the reality that there is a mindset amongst many

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Muslims that we have to somehow be able to break through. And the only way to break through it, I think, is to, in my experience, when you show them that you have listened to what they're saying, you know something about what they believe.

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They're so accustomed to talking with people that have no knowledge of Islamic belief that they're like, you know, it doesn't even get their thought processes started.

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This person could not possibly have anything meaningful to say about me because they don't know what I believe. The reality is they don't know what we believe either.

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And that's why the vast majority of the conversations just go nowhere. Go nowhere at all. You can get past that.

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Didn't hear. I mean, you know, maybe this whole debate is a demonstration that while that may be a proper approach, it's not guaranteed.

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Because, obviously, Sam demonstrated more knowledge of the

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Quran and the Hadith than Anjum has. And so you would think that would make

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Anjum go, Oh, wow, wow, you spent a lot of, wow. It didn't.

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So it's not, there is no cookie cutter way of doing this.

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It's, you know, you just can't get around that. But if the spirit is at work in the situation, frequently that will be the way that, you know, that would be one way to open the door, get the thought processes starting.

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So let's get back to what Anjum had to say. Can you remember? It was you in a debate.

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You see, you admitted it yourself. The truth always prevails, you know, Sam. Sometimes you just expose yourself.

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Now, obviously, that doesn't make any sense to start that point because we didn't hear the quote. And oddly enough, you know, I have a quote here.

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I wonder if you can guess who said this, Sam. Who would be convinced that he is

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God when he's dying on the cross? You know who said that, Sam? Can you remember?

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It was you in a debate. You see, you admitted it yourself. The truth always prevails, you know,

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Sam. Sometimes you just expose yourself. Now, everyone in this audience is sitting here going,

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Well, I know what Sam was probably saying there. I mean, that's 1 Corinthians chapter 1.

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The foolishness of the preaching of the cross. It's to those who are perishing foolishness. It's to the

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Jews who are seeking signs. It's a scandal. It's a stumbling block. What? But again, the

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Muslim who is ignorant of the Injil, ignorant of the

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New Testament, they may try to differentiate and then they can explain what

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Muhammad meant on their own. They don't know. And so the tendency on our part is to be offended at the fact that they don't care enough to be careful of what they're saying.

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We've got to ask for spirit -given ability to put that aside and to recognize that for many, they've never heard the truth.

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Others, they've not heard the truth in such a way that it's opened their hearts and minds. I mean, Anjum Chowdhury has heard the truth.

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Anjum will have absolutely no way of saying, I never knew. Oh, yeah, yeah, he has.

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But does that mean that once we can tell, Well, that person has heard the truth, so we won't talk to them anymore.

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Some of you sitting in this audience are Christians, and man, some people bothered you for a long time before the Lord opened your heart and mind.

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So we keep trying. Where's the line about casting pearls?

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I don't know. It's a hard thing to answer. But I think we have to try as best we can and let grace be the guiding factor there.

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And obviously, if you die, you can't be God. I mean, these things are so clear. And what was God doing when he was born?

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He came out of the womb of Mary. Are you saying really that God was born from the womb?

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Yes. Yes, Anjum. Of course, we're saying the Son of God, not the Father nor the

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Spirit. But yes, Jesus truly became man. It was necessary so that he would have that perfect life to give out of his condescension, out of his love.

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Yes, that's exactly what the Son of God did. We must be very, very clear. And we must demand that the

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Muslims see that they are, in essence, adopting somewhat of a Gnostic perspective in regards to creation, to take the objection that they do.

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God can take on a perfect human nature, not a sinful human nature. And remember in the debate with Abdullah Kunda, that's what it all came down to, was that from Abdullah's perspective, if it's not

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God, it's imperfect. God can't create something that is perfect unless it's God. There's a fundamental confusion of ontology there.

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Now, Abdullah Kunda is one of 12 Muslims in the world that's actually thought it through that far. The vast majority have never even gotten to that point.

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But that's what it ends up boiling down to. Yes, that's exactly what we're saying.

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And that's why Christians have to understand fundamental issues of what hypostatic union means, of what it means to say that Jesus is one person with two natures.

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It doesn't mean we can answer every single question about the subject, because the Bible doesn't answer every single question about the subject.

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There are all sorts of questions that we can ask that the Bible has absolutely no intention of helping us to become curious about.

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And Jesus was absolutely unique. So no, it's like when Yusuf Ismail debated

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William Lane Craig, and said, give us an example of this in nature.

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No, you can't. Or it wouldn't be unique if you could. It would be a fundamental denial of what we actually believe about Christology.

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And he was weak and needy. And what was he doing at that time? You know, he was God, was he, as a baby?

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Come on. Come on. I'm sorry. And Jim. Come on. It's not an argument. Come on.

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We live in a day. You can tell when people have spent most of their time on, you know,

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British television and on with Fox News with Hannity, when they think that come on is an argument.

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Sadly, for a lot of folks, come on is an argument. Oh, okay. So let's think about this.

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And as I say, you know, Paul says that no one can see God. And yet we can see many people saw

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Jesus. The Bible said God. Now, again, you know, and, you know, and Rich is doing a face palm in the room.

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But when I play the the Muslim from the 1999 debate, the feed to the argument, the feed to the argument.

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I love watching the audiences because they're like, man. And then you go, so how would you answer?

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And that's when you discover that, man, isn't an argument either. Nor is it much of a response.

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Sometimes it's just the argument is so bad that it's hard to respond to because it's so bad.

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Because you've never really thought about it before. It wasn't just it wasn't

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Paul, actually. But if, for example, someone said, well, Paul said no one's seen

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God. Yet people saw Jesus. So how could you be God? You should have an immediate, immediate response to that.

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You say, well, what is it? So we can have it. I think about for yourself for a second.

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There is a single verse of scripture that directly addresses that exact issue in the exact way that you would want to explain it to a

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Muslim. One verse. I'm not saying that there are not other verses that could be used.

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What I'm saying is there's one verse that immediately should come to your mind. John 1 18.

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No one has seen God in any time. The monogamous Theos. The unique God.

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He has exegeted him. He has explained him. He has made him known. So who is it that has not been seen?

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It's the Father. Then who was seen? It's the Son. And so if the

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Son has been seen, then who was seen on the throne in Isaiah 6? It was

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Jesus. That's what John 12 41 tells us. You can immediately go into a clear and powerful presentation of what the

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Bible teaches on this subject from this common objection from ignorance.

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And it is from ignorance. But especially when you're dealing with the Salafi, you've got to learn to use the ignorance as the key to open the door to knowledge.

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And it can be done. It can be done. It's one of the reasons we do this. I realize most folks would probably rather have me...

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Oh, I was sent a link to a Southern Baptist guy in Oklahoma, ripping and snorting on unlimited atonement.

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Well, I'm not saying that it's improper for me to address that. I might. But I realize that more people would rather have me do that than this.

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But I also realize that there are very, very, very, very, very, very few people doing this.

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Hence, trying to equip people to reach this particular people group. Because especially the

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Salafi Wahhabi, I mean, the line between them and the radicalized is very, very fluid.

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Very fluid indeed. And so these are the people, a lot of people just have fear, push back from.

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I'm not going to... That Anjum Chowdhury guy, I don't know that I'd even want to...

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I'd love to. I'll talk to him. Would love to have the opportunity of talking to him.

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Would love to have the opportunity of debating him. But that's what we need to do.

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We need to be prepared. I'm not sure I'm going to get very far here. I talk too much.

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I gave power and authority to Jesus. But I thought he was God. Why does he need to be given power? Now, again, that's a fair question.

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That's a fair question. I mean, from their perspective, yeah, I know. You're talking to someone who's obviously never even read the

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New Testament. But guess what? You know who else makes the exact same argument? Bart Ehrman.

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Bart Ehrman. One of his big things is he made him Lord in Christ. He wasn't

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Lord in Christ by nature. He made him Lord in Christ. So they confuse the exaltation of Christ because of his humiliation with an assertion that he was not eternally

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God. Those are issues that need to be addressed. We need to know our Christology.

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And it's really easy to look at someone like Angem and go, Ah, you know, he's not serious. But if he's using arguments that someone like Bart Ehrman will use, what does that do?

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It forces us back upon knowing our own theology and knowing it well. Well, I got two lines.

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Two lines here. Well, it gives us something to do at the end of each program. We will get there eventually,

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Lord willing. There's not that much more there. But, hey, there you go. By the way, as we wrap up the program today, could be something interesting on Thursday.

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I can't tell you much about it, but could be interesting. I mean, not so much on the program, but happening otherwise that we will then be able to tell you about, and we'll see.

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We'll see. But prayers for quick -mindedness on my part would be appreciated.

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Maybe we can tell you more about it on Thursday. I don't know. We'll see. Anyway, thanks for listening to The Dividing Line. Lord willing, we'll see you on Thursday.