August 28, 2017 Show with Dr. James E. Dolezal on “All that is In God: Evangelical Theology & the Challenge of Classical Christian Theism” AND Kurt M. Smith on “Remembering Luther’s Fight: A Primer on Martin Luther’s Life & Legacy of Standing for the Gospel”

The Nature of God and Classical Christian Theism

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 28th day of August 2017. I'm so delighted that we finally have been able to get on the program for the very first time, Dr. James E. Dolezal.

As some of you may remember, we had scheduled Dr. Dolezal to be interviewed on Iron Sharpens Iron several weeks ago, I believe it was, and there was some unforeseen scheduling conflict that arose on Dr. Dolezal's part, so we thankfully were able to get Dr. Dolezal in today on the program, even though it was very late notice.

Some of you may know that Dan Phillips was supposed to be our guest today, but as others of you may know, Pastor Phillips pastors in Houston, Texas, Copperfield Bible Church, and that area has been flooded very severely because of the hurricane and then a subsequent tornado, although Dan Phillips does give us the good report that he has been spared from any very serious disastrous effects of either of these storms.

So we thank God for preserving and protecting Dan Phillips and his congregation and his family, and we hope to have Dan back on the program in the near future, once things settle down there in Houston and he is able to participate.

But as I said, we have James E. Dolezal on today, and Dr. Dolezal teaches church history, Trinitarian theology, and philosophy at Cairn University in Langhorne, Pennsylvania, and today we are discussing his book, All That Is in God, Evangelical Theology and the Challenge of Classical Christian Theism.

That's our first hour. The second hour, we're going to have Kurt M. Smith returning to the program. He's the pastor of Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine Mountain, Alabama, and we're going to be discussing his new booklet that is in print now, Remembering Luther's Fight, a primer on Martin Luther's life and legacy of standing for the gospel.

But first of all, as I said, for the first hour, let me introduce to you for the very first time on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. James E. Dolezal. And in studio with me is my co-host that was just mentioned, the Reverend Buzz Taylor.

And it's good to be here again. And Reverend Buzz Taylor is only going to be able to be with us for the first hour because he has a concert where he is playing the trumpet and has to leave after the first hour.

So if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Dr. James E. Dolezal, please email us at chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com. And please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter. Before we get into the contents of this book, Dr. Dolezal, when I have a first time guest on Iron Sharpens Iron, I usually ask them to give an abbreviated version of their testimony of how they came to saving faith in Jesus Christ, including the religious atmosphere of your upbringing, if any, and what providential circumstances the Lord used to draw you to.

Himself and to eventually save you. I'm glad to be a child but old in the master. Great. And.

The Reverend Buzz Taylor and I have manned exhibitors booth for Iron Sharpens Iron radio at several major Bible conferences. And there typically has been very close to our booth, a booth for Cairn University.

Why don't you briefly tell us about Cairn University? Well, by the way, before I forget, Phil Johnson of Grace to You Ministries, the media ministry of John MacArthur, and also Dr. Jim Renahan of the Institute of Reform Baptist Studies and Seminary told me, asked me to extend their greetings to you.

Oh, that's kind of them, Jim.

Praise God. Well, this is a really compelling title of your new book. And to tell you the truth, I think it's a title for a book that it is would be impossible to be written because all that is in God could not possibly be compiled into a single volume in the English language on the.

Face of the earth. That's right. All of it is. And the subtitle is Evangelical Theology and.

The Challenge of Classical Christian Theism. Why don't you define classical Christian theism for.

Us? I'm going to affirmation of a number of credentials as sort of a...

And the Reverend Buzz Taylor has something to say.

The first thought that comes to my mind when you mentioned God is sufficient in himself and therefore he's unchanging. I have heard this used to defend the doctrine of, for example, the perpetuity of spiritual gifts and things like that.

By saying that, you're not saying that God always operates the same as he always has, are you?

No, that's a good question. When I say he's unchanged...

Yeah, it's interesting that many charismatics use the argument that Buzz gave that tongues and sign gifts must still exist because God doesn't change. And yet most of them are dispensationalist.

Yes.

That's peculiar. He lied. He lied.

Let me just read a couple of endorsements for this book, both written by men who have been guests a number of times on Iron Sharp and Zion Radio. We're going to start with Jonathan Master, Professor of Theology and Dean of the School of Divinity at Cairn University.

He says, this is a significant book on the topic that could hardly be more important. What we believe about the nature of God matters, and we dare not risk having an underdeveloped or sub-biblical understanding of such a central Christian concern.

To put it as plainly as possible, I want every one of our students to read this book and to reflect deeply on its teachings, since what Dolezal seeks to explain is nothing less than the historic doctrine of the Christian church.

Quite a powerful endorsement. And then J .V. Fesco, Professor of Systematic Theology and Historical Theology at Westminster Seminary in California, who's also been a guest several times on Iron Sharp and Zion Radio.

He says, the road to doctrinal decline is not a steep cliff, but a gradual descent. Before we realize it, we have altered or abandoned long-cherished beliefs and doctrine. James Dolezal sounds the alarm on the important but forgotten doctrine of divine simplicity.

He calls the church back to its traditional understanding and creedal affirmations, not because he fears change, but because they are biblical. This book is well worth the time to read, digest, and reinvigorate our understanding of the simplicity of God.

And that's J .V. Fesco, as I mentioned. I'm looking forward to having back in the program. And also, as I mentioned earlier, Phil Johnson and Dr. Jim Renahan both eagerly and enthusiastically recommended that I interviewed Dr. Dolezal on this book today.

This is an interesting phrase that you don't hear too often, and especially you don't hear it from Reformed people, but divine simplicity and the simplicity of God, both used by Dr. Fesco in his endorsement of this book.

If you could explain that, because that is something that you don't hear, as I said,.

Too often from Calvinists. Yeah, it's a doctrine that is one of the three forms of unity for those in the Dutch tradition century earlier. Interestingly, just to cut affirmation of it by what we call four-point Calvin-Arminian and talk a lot about, in fact, it almost sounds blasphemous.

It sounds blasphemous to anything, and that I think we do believe as Christians.

And one of the things that was mentioned that obviously piqued my interest right away is in Dr. Fesco's commendation where he says, the road to doctrinal decline is not a steep cliff, but a gradual descent.

And before we realize that we have altered or abandoned long-cherished beliefs and doctrine, what would be some of those things that you would.

Include in that list of abandoned doctrines that long have been cherished? To some extent, doctrines, and I think what Dr. Fesco has done is abandon these doctrines. I don't want to confess all this language about God.

In many cases, it happens somewhat indirectly. In other words, doctrinal exploit relates to something like that, and then suddenly what we find out is that a little bit of mutability, and I'm not claiming that people are doing that.

There are certainly some liberals that have intended it, but what I'm suggesting—. Yeah, as far as the confessional and.

Biblical doctrine that God has no parts like a human, I know that the Mormons believe this heresy about the being that they would call God, which of course is no resemblance to the God of Scripture. You have some word-of-faith Pentecostals who actually believe God has a physical body.

Oh, I was raised Roman Catholic, and although they did not teach that God the Father has a physical body, it's interesting that in all of our children's storybooks about the Bible, there was always a painting or a picture of God the Father, and even in the Sistine Chapel and many other depictions of God the Father in Roman Catholic artwork, you will see a gray-haired, bearded man depicting God the Father.

Has this notion actually seeped into other areas of what is.

Called Christendom? That's an interesting question. I would say that it's not the inadequate idea that God—I'm using that term, and it's very broad—are not so much denied in your cranium, and these are all physical body parts, so that your body is a composition of material—you're not a strictly immaterial being.

You are a material part and an immaterial—because you're human, that you exist. Every creature, even the most spectacular angel—.

Now, I don't want this to take us too far afield of the topic, but what on earth are the scriptures referring to when Moses saw the hind parts of God? I just cannot fathom what that is about.

Yeah, that's a great—I mean, that's interesting, as sometimes he's even—animal parts. He talks about having wings. We should probably call that zoomorphic language, and he also will describe himself—that God uses the—near to us in language with cosmic—digestive system.

Yeah, the difference with this, though, would not be just literary poetry to enable us to understand God. This seems to be an eyewitness account of something. In fact, I've heard it could be an epiphany of Christ, pre-incarnate Christ, or something.

Possible, I think, and what I want to add to that is that it's not just in language. Shekinah, he's doing them in a cloud. Sometimes he draws whether that is a cloud or a light or in that creation to manifest his covenantal presence.

Reverend Buzz Taylor has a question, but we'll have to wait until we return from the break. Hold on to that thought, Buzz. If anybody would like to join us, now is the time to do it, because, remember, Dr. Dolezal is only on with us for the first hour, so if you have a question, please shoot it to us right away at chrizarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Don't go away. We'll be right back, God willing, with Dr. James Dolezal, right after these words from our sponsors. I am Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, here to tell you about an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio, www .wlie540am .com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions.

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Because everyone needs a pastor. Welcome back. This is Chris Sarnes, and if you just tuned us in for the first hour of our program today, we have Dr. James E. Dolezal online with us, and he is going to be on until 5 pm Eastern, and then following Dr. Dolezal, Kurt M. Smith will be joining us to discuss Remembering Luther's Fight.

But right now, we are discussing with Dr. Dolezal All That Is in God, Evangelical Theology, and the Challenge of Classical Christian Theism. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, do it quickly, because we only have about 15 minutes left.

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. And the Reverend Buzz Taylor, you had a question.

Yes. You referred to biblical language being anthropomorphic, and that God does not have parts as it seems like it describes in the scriptures and so forth, and I understand that. But I hope I'm not going to be splitting any Baptist churches through this, but.

Would you also apply that to God's emotions? What are you talking about? The splits already.

Happened. Oh, yes. Well, maybe we can mend some of those now. Well, that's a good question,.

And I grant that that seems to be a... I've never met a dissent who might mistake that he's not and that he does not really oppose sin. When it denies that God has passions, it can be somewhat pleasantly going along, whistling, and you are now a little bit miffed.

Now, I'm from New York. That never happens in New York.

But it's not a passion because it causes love. Love as some comes into God's possession in the way that he should, and does actually unfold. That is against those... I'm trying to really avoid your question.

Remembering and forgetting and all these things that God has said to do, just as those are all anthropomorphic, is also anthropomorphic. If you want a $10 word for it, technically it's... From our perspective as creatures in time experience... God does appear to us in one moment under a manifestation...

I actually hope to eventually have a friendly,.

Brotherly, collegiate debate on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio between two Reformed Baptists on both respective sides of the debate at hand in regard to the impassibility of God. So, keep your eyes and ears out for this debate, God willing, which hopefully will occur before 2018.

We have Pat in one of my favorite cities. Not that I've been there, but I just love saying the name of the city. Pat from Rancho Cucamonga, California. He says, What is Dr. Dolezal's reply to a moderate view of eternal functional submission that speaks of being based on prosopological?

While it seems not as severe as some departures, Dr. Dolezal highlights in his book, wondering if he considers this view to still be compatible with classical theism. In an article I read, I wasn't sure if Dr. Dolezal's view was in reference when it stated, Certain radical and rationalistic applications of simplicity drive the thinker toward an arid and lonely Unitarianism and make him squelch a fully engaged and dynamic interaction with the data of scripture.

The article did address Dr. Liam Gallagher's view, I assume Dr. Dolezal shares. The article is from Founders Ministries and is by Dr. Tom Nettles. One thing I really wish, I wish I would start getting intelligent people write questions into the program.

Just kidding. Obviously, a very in-depth question there, Dr. Dolezal.

More than I can handle, I would say to render the obedience that the first humanity, and I take it, and I might make reference very evangelical at a kind of some kind of communal action. Well, Dr. Dolezal, I'm going to email you at some point today a calendar when you.

Can return to the program as a guest. And I hope hopefully the next time you'll be on for two hours because as you saw, this one hour went by like a bullet. And we only have time for one more question now.

We have Joe in Slovenia who says, there are some who say penal substitutionary atonement is divine child abuse. I believe those who use that saying are also implying even unintentionally a denial of divine simplicity in the Trinity, even a denial of the Trinity itself.

Their view makes Jesus seem to be an unwilling victim. Am I right in thinking this? And that's Joe in Slovenia.

Yes. I think obviously in Christ's human nature, there's divine wrath in his own body on the tree, and it kind of truly gives the idea that Christ can get into this, and maybe this is just a teaser to the listener.

And that is not the thing that he shares with the Father and Spirit. His divine child abuse as one with the Father and Spirit, his divine child, is really undermined, if not entirely falsified. These are technical questions that your listeners have.

Yeah. Well, my apologies to Joe in Slovenia because I actually read a different listener's question accidentally. That was Brian in an unmentioned city or state or country. Brian never told us where he's from.

We thank you, Brian, for the question. And please give me your full mailing address because you, along with Pat in Rancho Cucamonga, California, have both won a free copy of All That Is in God, Evangelical Theology and the Challenge of Classical Christian Theism by our guest, Dr. James E. Dolzall, who I hope returns to the program very soon.

And I want to give our listeners both the website for Cairn University and also for Reformation Heritage Books, the publisher of All That Is in God. First of all, Cairn University, that website is c-a-i-r-n .edu.

That's c-a-i-r-n .edu. And Reformation Heritage Books is heritagebooks .org, heritagebooks .org. And hopefully you can come back soon, Dr. Dolzall. It's apparent that we could spend another two hours on this one book and still not even.

Scrape the surface here. Thank you very much, and we look forward to your return.

Thank you, brother. And folks, don't go away because we are having a second guest join us, Kurt M. Smith from Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine Mountain, Alabama, who's going to be discussing Remembering Luther's Fight, a primer on Martin Luther's life and legacy of standing for the gospel.

I apologize to all the listeners who wrote in to ask Dr. Dolzall a question, but we ran out of time and an hour goes by far too quickly with a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. But we look forward to hearing from you and your questions for Dr. or should I say Pastor Kurt M. Smith on Luther's Fight right after these messages from our sponsors, so please don't go away.

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio, www .wlie540am .com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull. Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study,.

Because everyone needs a pastor. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnson. If you just tuned into our program today, the guest that we have now for the second hour of the program is Kurt M. Smith, and Kurt M. Smith is going to be discussing a booklet that he has written, which is a part of the Solid Ground Christian Books Reformation 500 series of booklets.

These are excellent booklets because they are addressing ideal, or should I say primary, issues involving the Protestant Reformation, and we are in the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation, and I should say in the year of the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation, starting with the official date of that celebration being October 31st of this year, commemorating the day that, or the date that Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses in protest to the practice of indulgence selling to the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg, Germany, and Pastor Kurt M. Smith is the pastor of Providence Reformed Baptist Church in Pine Mountain, Alabama, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharp and Zion Radio, Pastor Kurt M. Smith.

Good to be back with you, brother. And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for Kurt, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com, and please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable because of the fact that the question involves a personal, intimate, and private matter. Perhaps you are asking a question about the Reformation and your own pastor disagrees with you on something that you believe, or whatever it is that would compel you to remain anonymous, we will honor that request.

Otherwise, please give us at least your first name, city and state, and country of residence. And we already, by the way, for those of our listeners who are wondering, we already had an interview with Kurt Smith where he gave his abbreviated testimony of salvation, so if you want to look that up later on Iron Sharp and Zion Radio, if you want to look up other previous interviews that we've had with him, you can go to the ironsharpandzionradio .com and click on the archive of Iron Sharp and Zion Radio.

That would be to the top right of the page. It says past shows and in parentheses podcast. Click on that and then type in K-U-R-T in the search engine and you will immediately get the previous interviews that we have conducted with Kurt and Smith.

But today we are, during the second hour, addressing Remembering Luther's Fight, a primer on Martin Luther's life and legacy of standing for the gospel. Now immediately some might wonder, now wait a minute, why on earth is a Baptist writing a book commemorating the legacy of Martin Luther?

This seems oxymoronic,.

Some might think. If you could explain why. That's a good question. Well, very, very specific to what V-Day was thinking and I don't really care about that, you know, as far as what...

In fact, one very prominent Baptist historian who I've had on this program a number of times, who I love interviewing, Dr. Michael A .G. Haken, who is a professor of church history at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, and many of our listeners may also remember him as a faculty member at the Toronto Baptist Seminary, where my friend Dr. Tony Costa is the professor of apologetics and Islam.

There is a really remarkable or profound commendation that Dr. Haken gave to this booklet. There seems to be no end of Luther's studies, and especially in this year, 2017, when many are celebrating the beginning of the Reformation.

Kurt Smith's brief study is extremely helpful and he isolates the core legacy of Luther and why his life and thought is still needful of study and reflection today. Moreover, he is quite prepared to strike new ground based on a careful reading of the evidence.

His dating of Luther's conversion to 1518 is a case in point, and that as the real beginning of the Reformation. Should we then be shifting our celebration to next year? With the questions at the close, this is an ideal tool for studying the significance of Luther's life and having something to celebrate.

That's an excellent point that he brings up because Luther's 95 theses were written when he was still a devout Roman Catholic. He was just protesting against the sale of indulgence selling. He wasn't protesting indulgences themselves at that point in his life, nor much more much of anything else in Catholicism of primary significance, but that was that was the first domino to fall,.

At least in a primary sense. Am I correct? Yeah, that that is a book on the Reformation called the Unquenchable in that book from the existence. Yes. And he was objecting in regard.

To those indulgence selling practices. Johann Tetzel, correct, who was, his approach was very much like a snake oil salesman where he was scaring people into buying, purchasing indulgences for the sake of not only lessening their own time in purgatory, but the souls of their loved ones.