Is Jeff Durbin a false prophet? Taking Questions!

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November 17, 2024

Join us for the newest episode of Apologia Radio in which we respond to a video accusing Jeff of being a false prophet regarding the question of faith and works. We also spend time answering questions in the chat. Tell someone! Join us for the Aftershow! https://apologiastudios.com/shows/apologia-aftershow/ Check out our new sponsor, Rooted Pine Homestead! A family business that works to create natural wooden toys and herbal remedies. Their wooden toys/other wooden items are coated with only 2 ingredients (Coconut MCT oil and beeswax). Use discount code APOLOGIA for 10% off your first order. https://www.rootedpineshomestead.com/homeandgifts -Get the NAD treatment Jeff is on, go to ionlayer.com and put "IONAPOLOGIA" into the coupon code and get $100 off your first three months! https://www.ionlayer.com -Check out our new partner at http://www.amtacblades.com/apologia and use code APOLOGIA in the check out for 5% off! -You can get in touch with Heritage Defense at heritagedefense.org and use coupon code “APOLOGIA” to get your first month free! -For some Presip Blend Coffee Check out our store at https://shop.apologiastudios.com/ -Check out the Ezra Institute: https://www.ezrainstitute.com/

03:07: In Matthew 16 Jesus chastised the Pharisees who could interpret the appearance of the sky but failed to interpret the signs of the time in which they lived.
03:18: Who are the Pharisees of our day? This strong hold of sort of whiteness and white identity and pristineness is really part of what keeps us from making progress.
03:33: We need to do better. The church, rich in theological scholarship, has lingered in academic sanctuaries and ivory towers, failing to translate its lofty doctrines into a tangible and practical cultural apologetic.
03:49: At the Worldview Youth Academy we bridge this critical gap. Here theological depth is not an end in itself but a means to engage with contemporary cultural issues for the glory of God and the expansion of his kingdom.
04:06: Our mission is to cultivate thinkers who can articulate and apply Christian truths within contemporary societal challenges.
04:16: So embrace this call to worship God with all your heart, all your soul and with all your mind.
04:22: We will do better as this next generation tears down the idols of our modern culture and works to build a brighter future toward Christendom 2 .0.
04:33: I would say if the authorities didn't want us involved in the public square, they ought not to have crucified
04:58: Jesus in the public square. Use humanistic principles. It's the same idea. I would say that. Same answer.
05:03: I would say what's the problem with stardust bumping into stardust? In the cosmic picture? None. There's no problem.
05:09: In the cosmic picture it won't matter. No, Mr.
05:15: President, you are not protecting reproductive freedom. You are authorizing the destruction of freedom for one million little human beings every year.
05:34: I'm sorry, my friends, but I am tired of seeing Jesus presented as a weak beggar.
05:43: He is a powerful savior, and the gospel is not a suggestion, it is a command.
05:57: Reverend Moller, don't you sympathize with that? I sympathize with every single human heart wishing to know the one true and living
06:03: God, but I believe there's only one way that that can happen through Jesus Christ, and the gospel is about repenting of sin, not celebrating it.
06:31: What then, shall we say, was gained by Abraham, our forefather, according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
06:41: For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.
06:46: Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift, but as his due. And to the one who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.
07:00: Just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works, blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven and whose sins are covered.
07:09: Blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin. Romans 4, y 'all, one of my favorite sections, my most favorite of all time.
07:17: Gobble, gobble. Gobble, gobble. Next week, Thanksgiving, turkey day. Yes, sir. Get ready. I'm ready.
07:22: It's one of my favorite times of the year. You? You just got over the plague that's hitting
07:28: Phoenix. The plague, yeah. Yeah, it's been rough. There's a crazy... By the way, that's the bear. Hi. I'm Jeff. I'm here.
07:33: Ninja. In person. And he's actually here. You saw him last week. He was hitting us up from home. Had you started getting sick yet then?
07:39: I started getting a tickle in my throat. Just a little tickle that day? A little tickle. A little tickle, tickle. And then it went south from there.
07:46: Yeah. There's like a plague running through the valley, and it's funny.
07:51: Well, not funny. It was not funny. But interesting was this Sunday at Apologia Church, we were missing like 75 % of our church.
08:00: How many people do you think were there? I don't even know. But it was like... We even closed off the overflow because there was just no need for it.
08:08: And this thing was like wiped people out. Yeah. In one week, just... Yeah, I think Pastor Zach's still dealing with it.
08:14: He's good. He's okay? Yeah, he's good. Okay, that's good. Finally. Anyway. It took him like over a week, week and a half almost.
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09:29: And let's get right into it, shall we? For the record, that was not a new intro.
09:36: That was about 35 years old, the intro. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Someone's like, oh, I love the new intro. I was just thinking that. Yeah, yeah.
09:41: We haven't played that for a while. So we have two main intros. The one we were playing, that was the first one?
09:47: The one you just played was the first one. Was the first one. I haven't played that for a while. Yeah, we need to change it up a bit. Change it up. But you need a new one.
09:53: We should make a new one actually. So today, I mean, obviously, catchy title there is
09:59: Jeff Durbin, A False Prophet and Taking Questions. So what we're going to try to do today, and it's going to be difficult, obviously, with the thread, the size that it is, and moving the way that it is, we're going to try to answer any questions.
10:10: And so if you guys have some questions, you have, I would say don't start them yet, because what
10:16: I'm going to do is I'm going to touch on the title of the show today, it's Jeff Durbin, A False Prophet, by answering or responding to a kind of short video from someone who never heard of before, but it was interesting.
10:26: I was like, you know what, that's a good subject. I don't really know who this guy is. But I did see the video and I was like, huh, someone sent it to me actually.
10:34: And I thought it'd be a benefit to the church. Here's just, you know, our mindset at Apologia Studios is, and this is something we say often, we've been saying it particularly often lately, is that we want to make sure that we're doing content for your benefit and edification and for the benefit of the church.
10:52: It's going to matter 100 years from now or 200 years from now. And so that's kind of like a baseline. We're thinking, is this going to bless the church and matter 100 years from now?
11:01: And there are times where controversies come up and conflicts come up. We try to avoid those like the plague. And oftentimes we will have to ultimately engage those, but we hate doing it and we wish we wouldn't have to, but we generally like to make sure we're doing content that's going to matter 100 years from now.
11:16: And I thought, you know what, never heard of this guy before, and normally just ignore this, but the subject matter is actually vitally important.
11:23: It's good for the church and in the end, good for apologetics, because if you're doing any kind of apologetics or evangelism with Roman Catholic friends and family or to Latter -day
11:32: Saints, Jehovah's Witnesses, whatever the stripe, this particular subject is vitally important for us to get.
11:37: And so it's going to matter 100 years from now. So what we're going to do is engage a bit with this video where this guy calls me a false prophet and he has a particular way he tries to go into that angle.
11:47: And then we're going to spend some time with you guys and answer questions. So it'd be kind of like an ask me anything live right here on YouTube.
11:53: And let's get right into it, shall we? We shall. So this video, let's see here.
12:00: The channel name is Your Friendly Hood. It says
12:06: Jeff Durbin is a false prophet. Apologia Studios exposed. All right, so let's go.
12:12: It's about five minute video and we'll try to get through all of it. So I'll try to be somewhat brief. It's challenging on this subject to be brief, but I'll do my best.
12:19: Here we go. Jeff Durbin is a false prophet who is sending people to hell.
12:25: And he also looks like a piece of bacon. For those of you that don't know, the bacon Pharisee, Jeff Durbin, runs a
12:32: YouTube channel called Apollo. Okay, so to start with, if you're going to try to be taken seriously, then try to be taken seriously.
12:43: I don't even understand that. I don't know if that's a compliment or... I mean, bacon's good. Bacon's delicious.
12:49: So I don't know that I'd be upset. How much bacon do we eat in Germany? A lot. A lot of bacon.
12:55: I don't know what a butt ton in German is, but it was that... We took down at least a legion of pigs in Germany.
13:03: I mean, it was a lot of bacon. Their bacon's far better than ours for whatever reason. I don't know, it just dawned on me how much bacon we ate there.
13:09: It was every day. It was a lot of bacon. Every morning, bacon and eggs. And then our special spot we go to, bacon and eggs.
13:16: Yeah, we ate a lot of bacon. We did. So I don't know. I mean, is he trying to compliment me?
13:22: I don't know if I'd be upset if someone said I looked like bacon. I doubt it, but I've never actually heard someone say it to me before. I've been called a lot of things, but never bacon
13:29: Pharisee. Gia Studio. He's apparently a pastor of a church. He's well -respected.
13:35: The YouTube channel has over 500 ,000 subscribers. And he has a lot of different shows on there, like this show,
13:41: Cultish, that I understand is pretty popular. But Jeff Durbin is teaching a false work salvation doctrine.
13:50: So I want to show you guys a clip from this video that I watched by Jeff Durbin where Jeff Durbin is speaking.
13:55: He's doing a Q &A. Staying on the topic of faith and works put together.
14:01: Yes, sir. Is it wrong for a Protestant church to have a creed that says something to the effect, we are saved by faith, evidenced by works, or Abraham was saved by faith, demonstrated by works?
14:12: Yeah. I would say that the biblical view is that we are saved through faith alone.
14:23: That's the instrument that joins us to Jesus, right? But saving faith is never alone.
14:31: It always has works. So to start here.
14:37: The fan just kicked on there. Oh. So to start with, it seems like this gentleman is having a difficult time thinking in categories.
14:46: One, the instrument that joins us to Christ is faith. And then the question of the nature of that faith, if it's living faith or dead faith, if it's a false faith or professed faith.
14:58: So he doesn't seem to understand immediately, and you're going to see this further in the video, the distinction between those two points.
15:04: One is what is already affirmed. We are saved by faith alone, in Christ alone. Faith is the instrument that joins us to Jesus Christ.
15:12: But then in describing what that faith is, in terms of the nature of that faith, a living faith, it's two different categories.
15:20: One is how we're justified through faith alone, apart from any works of law. It is all work of God. It is a gift of God.
15:27: Faith is actually a gift of God, which apparently this man later on doesn't understand or doesn't seem to believe.
15:33: So just laying down some groundwork here. Here we go. Truly saving faith, it will produce works because it's a divine faith given by God that's real.
15:44: Now many people aren't going to catch what's wrong with this because most Protestant churches teach the error that Jeff Durbin is teaching.
15:53: So he says that we're saved by faith alone, but true faith is never alone.
16:01: Now many people won't see the issue with this statement, but this is totally incorrect. I mean, let's just think about it.
16:07: It is a self -contradictory statement. If true faith is never alone, then salvation cannot be by faith alone.
16:19: Think about it. This guy has a really hard time thinking in categories. The difference between the instrument that joins us to Jesus Christ, faith, and that faith alone is what joins us to Jesus Christ.
16:32: That's what's being argued by the Apostle Paul in Romans 4. Abraham, how was he justified?
16:38: He was justified by faith. God justifies the faith, justifies the ungodly through faith apart from any works.
16:46: Paul's argument in Romans 4 is that when was Abraham justified by faith? It was before he did circumcision, before he offered
16:53: Isaac on the altar. It was before the law was given. That was hundreds of years later. So Abraham comes to God with an empty hand of faith, and it was apart from any works.
17:01: Abraham did nothing. He just believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness. And so this gentleman doesn't seem to understand the difference between the two things being talked about.
17:10: One is how we are justified, how we are saved. It is through faith and faith alone. It is that instrument.
17:16: And by the way, I apparently missed what I said there at the end of the clip, that this is a gift of God. So not only is that faith that joins us to Christ alone that justifies us, but that faith is a gift from God.
17:31: That's particularly a very Calvinistic thing to say that I think that he's missed here, is that Scripture does teach,
17:37: Ephesians 2, verses 8 -9, Philippians 1 -29, that faith is a gift from God. It also teaches that repentance is something that God grants to people.
17:45: And so in terms of the works and our participation, it is faith alone, and that faith itself is something that God is the one who is responsible for in terms of he gets the glory because he's the one that regenerates.
17:58: He's the one that grants faith. He's the one that grants repentance. There's no works there being done by the creature.
18:04: Again, this gentleman doesn't understand the questions being asked. One is how we are justified.
18:10: Faith alone, apart from any works, there is nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing in the creature whatsoever. What happened to Abraham is what must happen to all of us.
18:19: What did Abraham do? Nothing. Did he do some ceremony? That came later. Did he demonstrate his faith somehow?
18:26: That came later with Isaac. Is it through works of law in some way? Nope, that was hundreds of years later.
18:32: Abraham believed God, Genesis 15, 6, and it was credited to him for righteousness. But the question then being asked is how do
18:39: I know that that faith is a living faith, a real faith? And that's answered by James 2.
18:45: This gentleman would have a real hard time in James 2 and in a number of other places. In terms of the other question being asked and answered by James, which is different than Paul in Romans 3 and 4, and that's the question of what kind of faith saves?
19:01: A dead faith? A fake faith? A profession of faith? Or a real faith? And how do you know it's a real faith?
19:07: Well, James answers that question. Abraham is vindicated by what he did. And you know that a faith is alive and real by what it produces.
19:16: And so that's what this man is having a hard time with. And so he makes the claim that Jeff Durbin's a false prophet based upon his inability to think in categories.
19:24: Anything? Well, I'm assuming he must be some kind of Arminian, like a non -lordship salvation.
19:30: I know we don't know. That's an assumption. But I'm still waiting for the false prophecy. Yeah, and I guess you could maybe think about it in terms.
19:39: Yeah, I know. I saw that too. I was like, I don't want to think of a prophecy. I don't remember doing that. I'm not in the habit of doing that at all. But I think it's in terms of like call someone a false prophet in terms of maybe what they're forth telling.
19:49: I think maybe he meant false teacher. Because a prophet in Scripture, there's two categories of prophet.
19:55: One is foretelling. In other words, God tells the prophet, this is what's going to happen.
20:01: The prophet says, this is what's coming. So there's a foretelling or there's a forth telling.
20:07: In other words, these are the words of God and I'm telling you what God says about himself, about me, about the world.
20:14: And so there's two categories of prophet. I think maybe he's trying to accuse me of being the false prophet in terms of the forth telling.
20:19: I'm lying about how a person is saved or I think that's what he's saying, yeah. True faith always produces good works.
20:28: Then it's impossible to have faith without works. Boy, this guy has a hard time.
20:35: Okay, so this is what happens when you have no balance and you can't think in categories.
20:45: You can't think critically. Is it a bad thing to have faith in works in the discussion of how a person is justified before God in terms of trying to cram those things together to be justified before God?
20:58: It is an abomination. It is anathema. Yes, Paul deals with that. It's throughout the
21:03: Bible. Galatians is particularly a good letter to hang out in to see that you cannot even begin to mess with that.
21:10: If you even add one thing to how a person is justified before God, like even just this one thing like circumcision,
21:16: Paul says in Galatians 5, Christ has become of no benefit to you, whosoever of you attempts to be justified by law, you've fallen from grace.
21:24: So how serious is it to cram faith and works together? Paul makes the point if it's even in one single point, circumcision, you have now chosen the path of law.
21:34: You're under obligation to do the entire thing. So is it dangerous? Yes. However, this is where you get like falling off a cliff.
21:43: It's not wrong to have a discussion separate from that about how a person is justified before God, not faith alone, apart from any works, to begin putting the words faith and works together in sentences over here, in terms of like living the life as a
21:57: Christian, living the Christian life, or in terms of how do I know someone's faith is real, and that they're just saying they believe?
22:04: Okay, let's put it in this way. Let's say that we all go out together to go get dinner at Mill Avenue. Okay, Mill Avenue is
22:11: ASU college town, gets kind of crazy sometimes on Friday and Saturday nights, you know, people at a debauchery, debauchery, licentiousness, and things like that happening on Mill Avenue.
22:19: So we're going down Mill Avenue, and we decide to stop on a corner to preach the gospel a bit, maybe handle some track. So we are standing there, and all of a sudden you see a dude walking up, and you know, it's a guy with a beard.
22:30: He's got a halter top on, and a miniskirt, and you know, pink hair, and he stops to talk to you, and while you're talking to him, he goes, oh,
22:39: I believe in Jesus. I have faith in Jesus. No, no, I have faith in Jesus. I'm a Christian. I have faith in Jesus.
22:45: You would be able to and it's necessary for you to challenge that profession of faith because of these works being presented right now.
22:58: That's the fruit. Exactly. Do you see the point? So this gentleman doesn't understand the distinction between the two conversations.
23:05: One is how do we know from our position, man to man, woman to woman, men to women, how do we know that your profession of faith is something that we can say,
23:18: I think that's real. In the same way that James makes the point, how do you know that Abraham believed
23:23: God? Well, by what he did because he offered Isaac on the altar. That was the vindication that Abraham's faith was the real thing.
23:32: By the way, that incident of Isaac on the altar was about 20 years after he was justified before God.
23:38: See the two conversations. One is how a person is justified before God. Faith alone, apart from any works, there is nothing, nothing, nothing in the hand of the creature.
23:47: It is an empty hand. It offers nothing. It is all of God's grace. The next question is how do you know that that faith is a living faith, that it is actually a real faith, a genuine faith, a divine faith, and that is by what it does.
24:02: And this man thinks it's a dirty word or dirty words to bring faith and works together in conversation because he falls off a cliff over here.
24:11: He can't think in the categories that Scripture actually argues about. How a person is justified through faith alone, how they receive eternal life, how they are reconciled to God, and then the later questions that come about how do we live as Christians?
24:25: How do you and I know that somebody actually believes? Right? I mean, taking his perspective,
24:31: I guess, the guy on Mill Avenue with, you know, the pink tutu or, you know, whatever, is saying,
24:38: I believe in Jesus. You go, yeah, all right, yeah, okay, I guess, I mean, you know, professionals of faith and all.
24:44: You know, don't we have a right as Christians to challenge that? I mean, I'm wondering if this gentleman, he was in a church community context, and he had a brother who decided to shack up with his girlfriend, continue going to worship.
24:57: Maybe he's in the worship team. He's, you know, he's singing songs on Sunday, but this guy knows that that guy is, you know, into porn, drunk every day, sleeping with his girlfriend.
25:07: I wonder, does this man in that context have a right to challenge that man's profession of faith to say,
25:15: I don't think you really understand the gospel. I don't really believe that your faith is genuine because you're living totally apart from Christ.
25:23: You seem to hate his law. You don't care about his lordship and his authority in your life.
25:28: I mean, do we understand the two conversations happening here? One is how a person is justified before God, and the other is how we know someone's faith is a living faith.
25:36: Here we go. You could always have faith and works no matter what you do.
25:42: And if this statement is true, then it renders multiple Bible verses and entire passages completely incorrect.
25:51: For example, one of the most popular verses on faith alone salvation, Ephesians 2, 8 and 9, for by grace are you saved through faith, not that of yourselves.
26:02: It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. Right there it says we are saved by grace through faith without works, which means even if you have no works, you'd still be saved.
26:16: But in Jeff Durbin's perspective, if you do not have works... Wait. Hold on.
26:23: Is he really gonna... He's really gonna stop there? The... The... The verse...
26:28: Uh... Sir, the verse that you quoted there, you left off the next verse.
26:35: I wonder why you did that. Because you see, Ephesians 2, 8 and 9, for by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.
26:42: It is the gift of God, not according to works, lest any man should boast. It is interesting in the text, if you do your homework and go into the
26:50: Greek, by grace you've been saved through faith, and that, tuta, that right there, the grace and the faith, not of yourselves.
26:57: We actually are saying that it is the grace and the faith that are not of ourselves.
27:03: They are the gift of God. Even the faith itself is a gift from God. It is that gracious of a gift.
27:10: It is that much not of you, and not according to works.
27:15: But the text actually goes on, and it makes the very point that you don't seem to get.
27:22: By grace you've been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not according to works, lest any man should boast.
27:27: And you forgot to mention the next verse. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus.
27:35: What's that, Paul? Unto good works, which God has already prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
27:42: I always think it's interesting as people try to, you know, come against what
27:48: Reformed Confessionalism teaches on this point, and Historic Christian Orthodoxy, when they quote
27:54: Bible verses like this, they leave off that part because it actually militates against the very point that you're making, and it supports the point that I was making.
28:02: And that is that you want to ignore the fact that there are two things in question here. One is how a person is saved.
28:08: The other is God's purpose in their salvation. What does it say? What's it say? For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, unto good works, which
28:20: God has already prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. It is interesting that he left that part off.
28:27: I mean, I think we can all rightly have our suspicions as to why. You are not saved.
28:34: So that Bible verse is just incorrect. You are not saved by grace through faith without works.
28:40: You must have works to be saved. Nope. That's not what the verse says at all.
28:45: Not at all. And one is the question of how a person is saved by grace through faith. Apart from any works, it is the gift of God.
28:53: And the next part of the verse, it's almost like you just put your hand over Paul's mouth and say, shh. Shh. Don't say anymore.
29:01: The next part of the verse, it continues, we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, say what,
29:09: Paul? Unto good works, which God has already prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
29:14: That's what the text says. And of course, when you have a person like this that likes to fall off cliffs, you also like to leave off Bible verses.
29:21: He literally just accused you of eliminating the entire passages of Scripture.
29:28: And then proceeds to only talk about a snippet of a passage of Scripture. That's the problem with proof texting.
29:35: A verse that's rendered incorrect in Jeff Durbin's and most Protestants' view is
29:40: Romans 4 .5. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
29:50: Now this verse says right here that even if you do no works whatsoever, but you believe in Jesus, you will be justified.
29:58: You are saved. You are going to heaven. Yeah. And nobody's arguing with that.
30:06: Well, now I'm really confused. Is he saying he's not a Protestant? I don't know. I don't know much about this guy.
30:11: I'm just watching this short video. Again, I thought this would be good content because it's going to matter a hundred years from now because the
30:16: Gospel's going to matter a hundred years from now and people's distortions of the Gospel. But it is important to recognize I have probably thousands of hours on this subject out there in debate or in teaching, and I would just encourage you to go to any of my teaching where I exegete the text from Romans chapter 3 and 4.
30:37: I will say this. I am confident that I have taught on Romans chapters 1 through 5 more than any other text in the
30:48: Bible that I've taught on. I have taught on this section of Scripture more than anything ever because it's all related to the
30:55: Gospel. It's the thing I want to just be constantly going back to and constantly re -presenting to people is that section of Scripture.
31:02: And you can go to any of my teaching over the last two decades of ministry on Romans chapters 1 through 5, and you'll see a consistency that that's precisely what
31:12: I teach. As a matter of fact, that's the point being made by Paul in Romans chapters 3 and 4 as he gets into this question of Abraham.
31:20: And if you're truly a child of Abraham, you need to have the same faith as Abraham and his whole argument there. You've seen me present this to Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, to every cult, to Roman Catholics, and all of that.
31:31: You've seen me say that his whole entire argument there is that Abraham believed God and it was credited to him for righteousness, and it was at that point that he was saved and justified before God.
31:43: God declares him righteous, and it makes the point that this was before anything on Abraham's part.
31:50: It was before circumcision, it was before Isaac on the altar, and Paul's point, it was hundreds of years before the law was even given.
31:57: And so what did Abraham do? Not a thing. He just had faith, and he was justified. And every presentation of the gospel when
32:04: I talk about justification, that is precisely how I've argued it. It is through faith alone, and when you are joined to Christ, you receive the gift of eternal life then, when you believe in Christ.
32:15: There is no question about my teaching on this point here, and it is interesting in this text of Scripture, it says that he justifies the wicked.
32:24: He justifies the ungodly. He doesn't justify the person who is righteous. He doesn't justify the person who is doing enough good works.
32:32: He justifies the ungodly, and that's what man -made religion cannot handle, is
32:37: God justifying ungodly people, and he does so on the basis of imputation and representation.
32:43: That's because of the work of Christ. So this gentleman has a hard time thinking in categories, apparently.
32:50: By the way, a thief on the cross. What did he do? He believed, and he received eternal life.
32:58: He believed. What did he do in terms of good works after that? Well, he didn't have really any time or anything to do anything.
33:04: He died shortly thereafter. And so do we affirm the thief on the cross? Yeah. As a matter of fact, we would even argue with those who would teach baptismal regeneration at the point of the thief on the cross, and we would argue he just believed.
33:20: There was no water baptism. There was no other things. There was no other works. It was just faith alone, and that's what justifies him.
33:26: But again, this gentleman is having a hard time thinking in the categories of how a person is justified before God, and then over here, the question of how you know someone's faith is a living faith and a real faith, and that is by what it does.
33:39: And by the way, if you don't like that conversation, you should stay far, far, far away from James 2.
33:46: If Durbin's view, it is impossible for someone who believes to not have works.
33:53: And so then to say to him that works not but believes his faith will be counted as righteousness, that's incorrect.
34:00: No, again, that's a question of how a person is justified before God. That is a question of how is a person declared righteous before God, and it is through faith alone, and he justifies the ungodly.
34:12: The point that I was making, and everyone's free to go watch the video, just type in Jeff Durbin, Faith and Works.
34:18: It was a conversation I had at an event evangelizing Mormons where I talked a lot about faith alone justifying us.
34:25: It was a question regarding how we know that this faith is a real faith, a living faith, and what, according to Scripture, happens to a person who has been saved and justified before God.
34:36: My suspicion is that this gentleman's perspective is in line with a lot of people who are with the
34:44: NIFB and things like that where, hey, I prayed this magic prayer when
34:50: I was four years old, and then there's nothing, no love for God, no desire for worship, no love for God's people, no desire for holiness and repentance and those things, and they would just say, that's all right.
35:01: They prayed that prayer. One time they were on their grandpa's knee, and he told them, do you want to burn in the fires of hell for all eternity?
35:09: Well, no, Grandpa. Great. Repeat these words after me. Get out of jail free, Cardinal. Yeah, and so, sorry, if that's your perspective,
35:17: I can't help you. If you think a person has truly been indwelt by the
35:22: Spirit of God, and then nothing happens, I reject that as absolute unbiblical nonsense.
35:28: I reject the idea that God can save somebody, regenerate somebody, indwell somebody, die for somebody, and then nothing happens to that person.
35:39: I reject that as absolute theological garbage. And if you think that that's all that God offers in the
35:47: Gospel, then you can keep it, because that is not the Gospel presented in Scripture. That's not the worldview presented in Scripture.
35:53: And seriously, are we really thinking that a person can be raised to spiritual life, as the Bible teaches, in terms of they're saved, justified before God, they have peace with God, raised to spiritual life, joined to Jesus, seated with Him in the heavenly places, and indwelt by God's Spirit, giving that Spirit, giving the
36:10: Spirit of God as a deposit, as a guaranteed for that future inheritance, and then nothing happens.
36:17: Nothing. Nothing happens to them. Desires don't change. Love for God doesn't change. They don't want to pursue holiness.
36:24: They don't love God's Word. They don't love God's people. You know, I actually remember some verses in the Bible that talk about if you don't love your brother, then you don't know
36:31: God, that you're a liar. But anyway, maybe
36:36: I'm just... Well, this is important. I didn't even remember where you had said that.
36:42: In the context of that video he played is very important because you're talking to the
36:47: Mormons who would say, by grace you are saved after all you can do.
36:54: So you're literally responding to his accusations, and he's completely missing that context. So it's like super important.
37:01: I didn't even put that together until you just said that. That's actually a good point. If you pull up the video,
37:06: Jeff Durbin, Mormonism, you should be able to see the same shirt I'm wearing. I'm sorry I didn't look it up.
37:12: I actually remember that. That's before we... That's when we were in Oahu doing the
37:17: Mormon thing. Oh, that's right. And then we had to do the Maui thing where I taught at that thing for the youth in Maui.
37:23: That's right. And then we went back for our mission where we met up together in Kauai. Yeah, that's right. I do remember that night. I taught on Mormonism for about an hour and a half or two hour lecture.
37:34: Probably two hours. It was filled with copious quotes. I mean, I knew that what the church there was doing was putting them in great danger.
37:43: As a matter of fact, just some insight in what happened when I got there. Huge Mormon population in Oahu, northern part of Oahu where I was.
37:53: And there was a very brave pastor there who wanted to engage the Mormon community. That's a very challenging thing to do in Hawaii, guys.
38:00: Just so you know, there's a big commitment to ohana in Hawaii. Family, you don't disrupt. You don't disrupt.
38:06: And people will say like, oh, I go to Sunday. I go to my uncle's Christian church.
38:12: And on Wednesday, I go to my auntie's Jehovah's Witness meetings. And you just don't disrupt.
38:17: So when this pastor asked me to come out to engage with the Mormon community in the northern part of Oahu, he was taking a big risk, such a big risk that people up there were talking about this event.
38:28: And members of the church were getting in huge trouble for being a part of that church that was doing this. As a matter of fact, one of the members of the church was at the grocery store, not far from where I was teaching that night.
38:39: And people knew that this was happening and she was a part of that church. And she got punched in the face. They punched her in the face at the grocery store for being a part of this thing.
38:50: And she actually, either her or somebody else got thrown out of the house that she was staying in because she was part of this church that was doing this.
38:55: It was a huge risk. Anyways. Didn't they have to move locations or something? I'm trying to remember they were threatening them or something.
39:02: I can't remember. Yeah, you might be right about that. It was something like that. Yeah, you might be right about that. But it was a huge, huge risk for this church to do this.
39:09: But anyways, I talked for about two hours on this subject of the gospel. If you look that up and you find that talk, you'll see that I argued strenuously on the issue of faith alone, faith alone, joining us to Jesus Christ apart from any works.
39:23: But I also tried my best to provide biblical definitions of what that faith looks like.
39:28: What is a divine faith given by God? Someone believes but does not have works. They actually don't believe and so they're not justified.
39:36: What Jeff Durbin is teaching cannot get anyone saved. He's making your good works a requirement for salvation that if you don't have them, you are not saved.
39:53: Nope. Again, the difference between how a person is joined to Jesus Christ through faith, that alone instrument, that's it.
40:04: The next question is, how do you know that faith is a divine faith? It is a real faith, not merely a said faith.
40:10: That question is answered in James 2. You may not like that question or that answer, but that is what the scriptures teach.
40:16: We can't just decide which Bible verses we want to believe and which ones we don't want to believe. Scripture defines very clearly what a true saving faith is.
40:28: I'll put on record the thief on the cross believed eternal life. Right there.
40:33: He believed eternal life. No works. Abraham believed God and was credited to him for righteousness. That was before any works.
40:39: That's the whole argument Paul is making there before circumcision, Isaac on the altar, and the law was even given. So this is just a misrepresentation and apparently this man needs to do his homework.
40:50: It's no different than what works salvationists say. The works salvationist says if you don't have works, you're not saved.
40:57: Jeff Durbin says if you don't have works, you're not saved. It is the same. No, no.
41:07: You are saved when you believe and you are declared righteous through faith and through faith alone. The question is the nature of that saving faith.
41:15: And no, I'm sorry, this man has a really hard time thinking in categories. The person who believes in faith and works salvation believes in faith and works salvation because they don't believe at any point they actually know they have peace with God.
41:26: Right, they have to earn it. Salvation is a process. It's a process. Like, for example,
41:32: Roman Catholicism. It's a process. You have this initial stage of justification and then this lifelong battle to maintain that grace of justification, that lifelong battle to participate so that you don't stain your robe and have all these things to be accountable for and there's the issue of purgatory and all those things.
41:49: Faith and works, that's a completely different scheme than what Scripture says in terms of how a person is justified.
41:56: So no, you are not accurately portraying the problem. And, yeah,
42:02: I mean, the thing is, the problem today is not really a problem. I mean, thank God for it. Anybody can get a YouTube video channel and say anything they want.
42:10: It doesn't mean that it's coherent or that people should respect you. It is salvation by faith and works, not by faith alone.
42:21: And as it says in Galatians 5, verse 4, Christ is become of no effect unto you whosoever of you are justified by the law, you are fallen from grace.
42:34: So Jeff Durbin is... I just read that. I just quoted it. Not in the
42:39: KJV, but maybe I did. Actually, that's probably how I have it memorized in the KJV. I just quoted that.
42:46: And actually, the point being made there in that letter to the church in Galatia by Paul, from soup to nuts, from beginning to end, is that the
42:54: Judaizing heresy had crept into the church Paul is repudiating it and calls it anathema.
43:01: Confronts Peter even over the appearance that he was giving there. And Paul's argument there is that these people who want to be justified before God through their faith in Jesus as Messiah, but also you've got to do this one thing.
43:16: You've got to keep this part of the law. Gentiles have got to become Jews first and all that stuff. He's making the argument that if you're trying to do those things together in order to be justified before God, if you're adding that element of the law at all to be justified before God, you have fallen from grace,
43:33: Christ has become of no benefit to you, whosoever of you attempts to be what? Justified by law.
43:40: It says in the text, justified by law. So no, this gentleman, though, good lighting.
43:48: I like the lighting. Cool stuff. He doesn't have the same taste in theological rigorousness.
43:55: Fallen from grace and anyone believing this doctrine is fallen from grace because they believe that they must justify themselves through keeping the law because...
44:07: Thank you. That's exactly the point. And that's not what chapter Urban has ever taught or ever will teach if I ever do anathema.
44:16: Thank you for making the distinction right there. You just, you just proved the point I was making. Don't keep the law if they don't obey
44:23: God's commandments, if they don't change their life, if they don't have works, they will not be saved.
44:30: They don't actually believe. So it's a satanic, wicked, false doctrine.
44:35: Jeff Durbin and probably the rest of Apologia Studio are children of hell who are trying to turn their viewers into two -fold the children of hell with their false doctrine.
44:47: And the Bible tells us in Galatians chapter 1, if anyone's teaching a false gospel, let them be accursed.
44:56: So let them be accursed. Mark and avoid them. Unsubscribe. Don't support them.
45:02: God bless you all. And may you all believe in Jesus. If you're unsure if you're going to heaven, watch this video right here.
45:08: All right. Well, there you go. I thought that'd be a good discussion to have. Important one.
45:14: If you are at all interested in engaging with those faiths that are in opposition to biblical faith, whatever stripe, whatever color, whatever kind, whatever type, you're going to need to,
45:30: I think, have a grasp on what Scripture teaches here about how a person is justified before God and, of course, that discussion of how you know someone's faith is a real faith, a living faith, and not merely a said faith.
45:42: As James would put it, can that kind of faith save him? What is that kind of faith? Dead faith.
45:48: Not a real faith. Can a false faith save you? And James' whole point there is not how a person is justified before God, but how our faith is vindicated before man and it's by what you see.
46:01: And so, yeah, that's a good discussion to have. Any other comments, Pastor Luke? No, I'm just curious what this guy...
46:10: I was just looking at his channel. I'm just curious what in the world he believes. But no,
46:18: I mean, you handled it pretty thoroughly. All right, everybody. So we're going to open it up right now.
46:23: We haven't done this in a long time to questions and answers. Okay, let's see here.
46:33: Oh, let's see. Oh, by the way, everybody, ReformCon, we've got to mention it. We've got to mention it.
46:39: We've got to let everybody know ReformCon is coming. So as you guys are putting your questions in there, ReformCon is coming.
46:44: The dates are? April 22nd to 24th.
46:50: Sorry, hold on. I believe it's that. Let me double check. Well, just so you know, it is happening here in Arizona.
46:56: It is happening in Tucson. We have Dr. James White. Sorry, 24th to 26th. There you go. We have
47:01: Douglas Wilson. We got Joe Boot. We got Andrew Sandlin. We got myself and a number of other people coming.
47:06: Virgil Walker's coming to host this thing for us. We love Virgil. Yeah. And it's going to be happening in Tucson in April.
47:12: Get your tickets, reformcon .org. Get your tickets now before everything fills up.
47:18: We are so excited to put this on and to do this yet another year. The last ReformCon we had was just a fantastic experience.
47:26: We wanted to make it different than other Christian conferences people go to. We had a lot of fun doing it.
47:32: Just heard nothing but rave reviews about it. And we just would love to meet you and have you come out to hang out with us for a couple of days in Tucson.
47:39: And in April, it's going to be great weather. It's going to be amazing. It's going to be great. It's going to be a good time to come here.
47:45: We just, we would never want to bring you here in like July or August because then you would hate us forever. You would actually think that we all are false prophets and we're trying to literally bring people to the hellfire of Arizona.
47:55: But yeah, April next year, reformcon .org. Come hang out with us. We had a blast last time.
48:02: Yeah, it's going to be great. I just got ahead of Zoom call this week. We're trying to finalize some of the finer details.
48:08: It's going to be good. So I'm actually taking a trip down to Tucson on Monday to get a better lay of the land.
48:14: So it's going to be good. And those would make, tickets would make great Christmas presents. Yes. And so as you guys get more questions going on in here,
48:22: I wanted to point out to you guys, you've heard me talking about it and I'm letting you guys put your questions in there right now. You've heard me talking about it many times before, but the
48:31: NAD patches from ionlayer .com, huge blessing in my life. Matter of fact, we got back from Germany and I was just toast.
48:40: I was, I didn't sleep the entire time, like through a night in Germany and my body would not catch up to the time zone.
48:45: I was just an absolute wreck. I got home to a fresh box of NAD patches and the first day
48:52: I was just like wonky and out of it. And I put that NAD patch on and I just, I just felt like I'm normal.
48:58: Again, I felt, I felt good, clear minded energy. I felt just phenomenal after I put it on. And actually,
49:04: I didn't get any, any major jet lag because I did, I did like a, a loading cycle of the
49:09: NAD for the first couple of days and I felt fantastic. I felt really, really great. And usually
49:15: I just get, you know, like day two or three, I get some blast with some heavy, heavy jet lag. But it was, I felt great.
49:21: Anyways, check out the health benefits. Just Google search health benefits NAD. It's phenomenal. You've heard me say a bunch of times before that the challenge with NAD is as good as it is, they call it the fountain of youth as a nickname.
49:34: As good as it is, it's really difficult to get through IV because it's, number one, it's expensive.
49:39: I mean, for the amount of NAD you get in a single dose through the Ion Layer, it's about $750 to $1 ,000 if that was
49:47: IV. It's also extraordinarily painful. Everyone knows the stories of NAD through IV drip is just very painful.
49:54: I mean, it's hugely beneficial for you but it's hard. So ionlayer .com has come out with a great way to do it through a medical patch where you get a high dose of NAD and, and it's, it's such a, really a fraction of the cost of, of what you would get if you did it, if you did it
50:13: IV. Anyway, so they just hit us up today and let us know that they have a special right now. So if you thought about doing it and, and focusing on your wellness and longevity, you wanted to start that, they have a
50:23: Black Friday Cyber Monday sale now through December 2nd. Your promo code
50:29: APOLOGIA all caps has been upgraded to give customers $150 off their first kit instead of the normal $100.
50:37: So if you wanted to give it a try, now would be the time to do it. Just go to ionlayer .com. In the coupon section, put
50:44: APOLOGIA all caps. You're going to get a really heavy discount. I mean seriously, like you get, how many doses do you get?
50:50: Six? You get six in a box. Six, six NAD treatments. Each one, that level of NAD, again, is like $750 like through IV treatment.
51:01: So, I mean this is substantial. So if you wanted to do it, if you wanted to focus on that, now's the time to do it. I do it all the time.
51:07: I'm going to do it regardless of if Ion Layer was doing this stuff with us. The science behind it is clear.
51:15: It is a huge benefit. And so, ionlayer .com coupon code
51:20: APOLOGIA if you wanted to do it, now's the time to do it. They're coming out, by the way, soon, get this, because you do glutathione.
51:26: They're coming out with a glutathione patch. And it is, it's been demonstrated after 21 days to increase your glutathione levels baseline to 17%.
51:37: That's big. Glutathione is the master antioxidant in your system. It's like the supreme one. And if you're deficient in this, it creates a lot of problems.
51:46: And all this stuff, just great. I love the focus now we can have because technology on biohacking and focusing on wellness and longevity and things like that.
51:55: So it's just, we live in really interesting times, fantastic times. So anyway, there you go. Okay, I'm going to try to go through here.
52:02: You can, feel free to fill in the gaps here, Luke, while I'm looking through here. Yeah, well, I was gonna say, speaking of, sorry, I'm trying to ban somebody.
52:09: um, speaking of, uh, Black Friday, I'm excited to announce.
52:14: I think I mentioned it last week, but we're going to have a Black Friday sale at shop .apologyastudios .com. So you can go, uh,
52:21: Black Friday only, put in Black Friday in the coupon code and you'll get 25 % off anything in our store.
52:26: So we got the, ooh, precept. We got the tracks. We got the swag. We got a lot of stuff and, uh,
52:33: I'm excited for that. I do also, I need to mention this. Um, we do have a, um, if you want stuff by Christmas, you will need to order it by the 6th of December to make sure you get it in time for Christmas.
52:44: So, um, so yeah, hopefully you guys can load up on stuff for your family.
52:50: Oh, so, okay. So this is a good question and kind of this, some of this is subjective. Obviously people can have, you know, different, you know, perspective on this, but good question.
52:58: One of my favorites here is, um, W .M. asked the question, what is the most significant theophany of the
53:05: Old Testament? I, I think maybe you mean Christophany, like in terms of Christ, God become, you know, coming and appearing.
53:11: Oh, man, there's so many. There's so, so many really great ones. I mean, you could talk about, uh, this
53:17: Sodom and Gomorrah situation. You could talk about Jacob and, and, and wrestling with God. You can talk about, you know,
53:23: Christ appearing and then falling down to worship him in the Old Testament. but my, my personal favorite, if you were just, again, a lot of this is subjective.
53:31: If you, if you were to ask me, like the, the most, sort of like significant, powerful Christophany or the appearance of God in the
53:38: Old Testament, I think it, it just had a huge impact on me because of the story that it's tied together with is when
53:45: Abraham goes to offer Isaac on the altar. I think that that is the, for me anyways, and again, a lot of that's subjective.
53:52: I, I think that that's the most significant for me because this is where the, what is happening there is like this rehearsal for what
53:59: Christ is actually going to do. Isaac is carrying the wood to the place of the sacrifice. He's bound and, uh, he's about to be, to be sacrificed there and then it says the angel of the
54:10: Lord, um, the messenger of the Lord, uh, speaks and says, you've not withheld your only son from me.
54:15: So clearly that's Yahweh and, uh, that's where Abraham names the place. This is the place the Lord will provide, provide it and that's where Christ was sacrificed.
54:23: Yeah, you know, depending on where you, how you put it, like, you know, 1800 years later, uh, so the appearance of Christ there in that scene is, is significant for me because of, of what is being portrayed there that they could not have possibly even understood in that moment.
54:38: So that's personally my favorite. Um, let's see. Alex Junkin, I'll make sure
54:47: I don't, I don't want to butcher your name there. What do you suggest for a person in Pennsylvania who wants to do something in ending abortion but his church leaders are hesitant in doing the end abortion now training as a church or anything?
54:56: So first thing I would say, Alex, is praise God for your desire. Uh, I would say that, um, it'd be good for you to encourage your pastors graciously, patiently, gently, with some, maybe some content from Apologia where we go out to the abortion mills, preach the gospel, or, or even share with them some of the videos we have of the saves, uh, with the actual babies.
55:17: Uh, so we have tons of that content on Apologia Studios. Maybe, maybe look through our, um, our feed and find some of the videos of the actual babies who've been saved, uh, from death.
55:27: Uh, I do have, uh, it's, it has, has had a lot of impact on, on pastors in the past.
55:33: I have a, a sermon up done many years ago. What is it called? Um, the sermon that shocked everyone.
55:40: Uh, it's, I don't even know how many millions of views it has. And I think it has the millions of views that it has, not so much because of the sermon, hopefully that had an impact on people, but it's at the end of the sermon that I bring up, uh, a mother, uh, uh, the baby's name's
55:56: Carmelo, and he was one of the first saves we got to hold at Apologia Church. Maybe share that with your pastors, try to graciously bring them along, help them to see, and, uh, let them see the actual fruit of this kind of ministry that tends to have an impact on pastors when they see the fruit of like, wow, there's actual lives being saved.
56:13: Um, and, um, maybe have that conversation with them, share it gently, be gracious, don't be bombastic, don't be rude.
56:20: Sometimes it just takes a little bit of time for you to, to, to show your pastors, this is the nature of the ministry. Here's what it looks like.
56:25: It's not abusive, but, uh, you can immediately begin work in this area in Pennsylvania, um, by contacting your legislators and demanding that they, that they put a bill in for equal protection.
56:37: And, uh, you can start that work. We do have a number of churches in Pennsylvania that are working on this. Do we have a bill coming in Pennsylvania?
56:44: Possibly. Okay. Possibly. Yeah, I was going to say, we, we have boots on the ground in Pennsylvania too, so if you want, you could, uh, contact, uh,
56:51: Zach Conover in Abortion Now and, um, he can tell you who we got and where they're at in Pennsylvania, so.
56:58: Okay. And, uh, you know, if your pastors have any questions, uh, let them contact Apologia and let's, uh, have that conversation.
57:05: But I would say, make sure you just are not abusive and rude and bombastic. Be patient with your pastors on this point.
57:13: And, um, and in the end, I would say that if you, I would say that if you are at a church that just refused any local outreach and evangelism, just was not, uh, committed to engage the world with the gospel in the public square, and you just felt like your pastors just were not doing the work of an evangelist, um, as Paul, as Paul, you know, commits
57:33: Timothy to, if you were in a situation where you, you had leaders that just did not want to, um, actively go out and proclaim the gospel or confront the idols of the world, and that was just not sitting right with you and it's frustrating to you,
57:45: I'd find, I'd find local pastors where you could, you could sit under their teaching and respect them and, and you wouldn't be having that, that constant conflict.
57:53: Um, let's see here. Let's see.
58:00: Questions. What's your opinion on the Nephilim? Uh, That's some interesting questions in here. They're all over the place. Yeah.
58:05: So, uh, Hi Jeff question. I'm not gonna be able to go detailed and deep into this right now. Maybe sometime in the future we will. Hi Jeff question.
58:11: What's your opinion on Nephilim? Um, I do not agree at all. I think it's a very, very peculiar perspective to think that, um, the
58:21: Nephilim issue is actual spiritual creatures, demons, um, having sex with, uh, women.
58:29: Uh, I think that that goes against what the book of Genesis says in the first few chapters leading up to Genesis chapter 6, that each thing produces after its kind.
58:37: Uh, spiritual creatures like demons don't, and forgive me for being as blunt, but they don't have penises but they don't produce semen.
58:45: and so when we talk about reproduction, human reproduction, uh, we produce after our own kind.
58:50: That's built into the creation itself. And so the idea that demonic, uh, spiritual, uh, entities could, uh, materialize somehow and produce, uh, what creates an image bearer of God is a very strange perspective to me.
59:04: I know that there are Christians who, who hold to that perspective. I'm not being abusive to them.
59:10: If you believe that, I don't want to abuse you. I just think that it's a very, very, uh, peculiar, uh, belief based upon a small section of Scripture that can easily be interpreted smoothly and straightforwardly, um, in terms of these, uh, ungodly lines having, having, you know, sex and producing children.
59:28: The idea that it's actual, uh, demonic entities, spiritual entities, materializing and producing the body parts that would allow them to produce human children is just, it's a foreign thing to me.
59:41: I don't understand it. and no, I don't hold to it. Um, let's see here. I was gonna say a couple of, uh, an abortion now questions.
59:48: Um, where did I see that? Uh, campfire. You asked about Delaware. We do not have anything going on in Delaware.
59:54: We would love to. So, um, please, um, reach out to again, that kind of word and abortion.
01:00:00: Now you can go there. There's a contact page, I believe. Um, let us know what's going on. We'd love to get involved there. And someone else asked if we have any, uh,
01:00:07: Matt, how like asked if we have any templates or anything that can be sent to legislators. Again, reach out to Zach.
01:00:13: We actually have packets that we give to, uh, legislators so we can help you out with that. All right.
01:00:20: And, I think it'd be good to at least mention this, not go into great detail. Um, uh, uh, uh, well,
01:00:31: I missed it. Hold on here. It is where to go. I just want to ask it straight forward. Is it? Well, the question was, can you elaborate on the
01:00:37: Antioch declaration? Um, yeah, I get a few of those. Okay. So, uh, well, let's have a conversation.
01:00:44: So I know it'd take a while for us to go into deep detail on this, but, um, many of you guys may not be aware, but there has been a growing movement in certain corners of, um,
01:00:56: I think many reformed churches, but I think it's beyond just reformed churches of, uh, ethnocentrism.
01:01:02: Um, a lot of, believe it or not, white supremacy and, um, white nationalism and, uh, specifically hatred towards an abuse towards the
01:01:13: Jewish people. Uh, you know, I will say that, you know, when
01:01:18: I started hearing about this, I don't know how long ago it was, maybe nine months ago or something like that.
01:01:24: Yeah. Within this year. When I started, when I started hearing about it, that people are actually professing
01:01:30: Christ and, you know, being pro Nazi, pro Hitler and those sorts of things. I just thought, that's just crazy.
01:01:36: I, I just don't see that happening in, in, you know, solid confessionally reformed church communities and those sorts of things.
01:01:42: As a matter of fact, um, uh, when, uh, somebody had initially, uh, brought it to me,
01:01:48: I just thought maybe they had tunnel vision. I thought maybe they were just seeing it in certain corners. It just seemed like it was big and, you know, and, and growing.
01:01:55: And I thought it was a little bit of tunnel vision. And so I just sort of thought when I, that's just, that's just not possible. Professing Christians don't believe those sorts of things.
01:02:02: They don't hate somebody based on their ethnicity. They don't treat people abusively like that. And it's just, it can't be true.
01:02:08: Uh, but it is true. And, um, you see it, uh, and I'm sure we're going to have to do some stuff on this in the future.
01:02:14: So this has been something that's been a problem and, and kind of on the radar for a while in terms of an ideological system that is being promulgated.
01:02:22: Uh, and I would say probably mostly where the reform communities seems that way. It seems that way. And so it's, it's been an ongoing issue.
01:02:29: Um, I'm not going to get into a nitty gritty details of, of personality conflicts.
01:02:35: Some of you guys may be aware that there, there is, you know, it was a conflict between, uh, Joel Webben and, uh, and Tobias Riemenschneider.
01:02:43: Um, and, uh, that conflict is ongoing and that discussion is still happening. And, and from my understanding, uh,
01:02:49: Tobias is, is going to be releasing, uh, his, his commentary and his response, uh, to, uh, to,
01:02:55: Brother Joel, uh, fairly soon. And, uh, but I'm not getting into that. That's, uh, that's, that's the conflict between those two brothers.
01:03:02: It's a separate issue that then the Antioch Declaration is, is trying to address. The Antioch Declaration is an attempt to essentially draw a line and a marker in terms of the reformed church and communities in terms of what is wrong with this ideology.
01:03:17: And, uh, and, and sort of alert people to the fact that this is actually happening, that people actually are thinking this way and believing this way.
01:03:24: And so that's what the Antioch Declaration is. It's something that preceded and was, uh,
01:03:30: I'm saying in terms of the ideological issues preceded any conflict that's been going on between Tobias and, and, uh, and Joel.
01:03:37: And so they are two separate issues. And that's where, that's where I have them. That's where I put it.
01:03:42: For me, the ideological issues are the important issues because whatever personality conflicts are going on right now, if they get resolved, the ideological issues still remain.
01:03:53: So if those issues are resolved between brothers, the ideological issues remain and they remain a very valid and vital concern.
01:04:01: And so the Antioch Declaration, you guys can go look it up right now. It's the title of the, the, is the web, is the address, the
01:04:08: Antioch Declaration. Sorry, I forgot what it was. Let me double check. So you can go check it out. Um, dangerous stuff, dangerous stuff, guys.
01:04:16: Um, what I'm concerned with is people saying in order, in order to save the West, white people need to be having more white children.
01:04:24: That's how we'll save the West. That is an abominable perspective. And yeah, to Antioch declaration .com.
01:04:31: And so it's, it's things like that. It's, you know, it's, it's memes being shared of Hitler comforting a young man, you know, um, it's, it's, it's memes being shared, uh, that are sharing
01:04:43: Nazi propaganda and, um, and, uh, memes being shared that will mock the
01:04:49: Holocaust only sort of, uh, show the fruit of what's going on. The ideology is producing the fruit that, uh, ethnic hatred and, um, those sorts of things.
01:05:00: That's, that's happening and that's happening outside of any particular personality conflicts and anything going on between brothers that, that needs to be resolved.
01:05:10: And I think it's moving that direction and there's going to be a conversation about it. And I know that that's coming soon.
01:05:15: Um, but by the way, that's not my, that's not my conversation just so everyone knows.
01:05:21: So when people are, I even saw, you know, people, someone today, uh, sent me a message where they wrote a message in Jeff, you need to repent of slandering
01:05:31: Joel, to which I thought, um, I said, okay, uh, please provide, uh, the where and when
01:05:37: I slandered Joel. And the answer is everyone's right now surprised by this because this is the first time you heard Jeff Durbin talk about this.
01:05:44: Um, I didn't share any video and I haven't talked about this. And so you need to be more precise because Jeff Durbin hasn't done any of that.
01:05:52: If you have conversations going on with someone else, have those conversations. But for me, I didn't share any video and this is the first time
01:05:58: I've done, I've actually talked about it. For me, the issue is, and it's serious, is the hatred towards other ethnicities.
01:06:07: The, the vilification of Jewish people, calling them parasites, calling them, well, the
01:06:14: Holocaust is just prisoners of war, just sort of like diminishing and waving the hand at human suffering and carnage.
01:06:21: Um, I, I, I find that to be highly problematic. And I also find it highly, highly problematic when, then this, when this ideology gets legs on it, all of a sudden you have
01:06:30: Christians saying to other black Christians, well, your blood and soil is elsewhere. So you should maybe go there and invest in that.
01:06:38: That to me is so foreign to the Christian worldview. I can't even imagine these conversations are happening right now.
01:06:44: So my part in the Antioch Declaration is to really resist. What does it permit to pernicious, cancerous, dangerous, ideology that somehow crept into Christian churches.
01:06:58: And there are men who profess the faith in Jesus who have bit down on this ideology.
01:07:04: And the ideology is leading to separation between brothers. It is leading to, um, uh, ethnic hatred.
01:07:11: It is, it is, uh, leading to, um, an, an, an obscene ethnic pride.
01:07:17: I mean, again, just to give you, for me, it's the anchor point. I saw a conversation with somebody that I, I have highly respected and the conversation centered around, if we're going to save the
01:07:30: West, white families need to be having more white children to which I thought that is the most foreign thing to the gospel imaginable.
01:07:40: I just can't even imagine how we're having these kinds of conversations. And by the way, you can't have that conversation in a church like Apologia.
01:07:47: You, you, people would walk out the door or you'd, you'd be, you'd be sent out on a rail. How did they say that?
01:07:52: You know, like, you know, people would pull you from the pulpit. And the reason why is you get a church like Apologia church filled with believers from every tribe.
01:08:01: And you've got Brown people, you've got black people, you've got white people, you've got all kinds of colors at Apologia church.
01:08:07: Praise God for that. Imagine going to a church like Apologia, where we are focused on Christ and the gospel and seeing the whole world come under the feet of Jesus and standing behind the pulpit and saying, you know, one of the ways we're going to save the
01:08:19: West here is, is white people having more white children. What's that say to the
01:08:24: Brown people at Apologia church? What's that say to the black people at Apologia church? What they don't get to participate in saving the
01:08:32: West. I thought we saved the world through the proclamation of the gospel. I thought God brings tribes together, unified in the savior.
01:08:41: And I thought that saving the world had something to do with regeneration and the
01:08:47: Holy spirit's work in the gospel. I thought that that was what we believed as reformed people.
01:08:53: I didn't know that it was, well, in order to do this, I got to have more white kids. That's how we're going to save the
01:08:59: West is white children. That is disgusting to me. And that's why the
01:09:04: Antioch declaration is because that pernicious cancerous belief is being promulgated.
01:09:11: And yeah, people actually believe it. I'm shocked myself to see people, you know, not brave enough to put their own face on their, on their, you know, their handle, but anonymous accounts, you know, promoting such hatred towards different ethnicities.
01:09:24: And by the way, and this is, this is the challenge. This is, you know, you think you've picked your enemy by saying,
01:09:30: I'm going to have an ethnic hatred towards this one group, but there's presuppositions contained in there that will lead to other hatred.
01:09:39: So like, maybe it starts with the Jewish people. And then six months later, you find yourself saying to your black brothers and sisters, well, this isn't your blood and soil.
01:09:46: You should go invest there. Right. And so like that kind of ethnic hatred and separation will, because it's cancerous, grow and metastasize.
01:09:56: It'll grow and it'll now bleed out in other ways. And so I have just seen over to even the last couple of weeks, so much shocking ethnic hatred and abuse that that's why
01:10:09: I was a part of the Antioch declaration, because I don't want to see Christ church go the direction of ethnic hatred or ethnic dominance.
01:10:18: Right. And that's what you see also is this sort of proud ethnic dominance. Is it okay to be, to be proud of your heritage?
01:10:26: You know, Luke loves the fact that he's a Viking and I'm half German and German and all that stuff, you know that's, that's okay.
01:10:34: But it's this bombastic ethnic pride that ends up just being this haughty perspective.
01:10:41: That's my, my, my tribe is so much better than your tribe. And the way that we're going to save the world as we start growing my tribe more by having more white kids dangerous.
01:10:51: And I never thought I'd be saying this out loud. And so when someone says like, what's the issue? For me, we're taught, for me, it's, it's this issue, the ideological issues that must be refuted and confronted that are, that are growing.
01:11:04: It's growing in number in, in, in reformed churches and that needs to be confronted. Any other issue between personalities to me, that's, that has nothing to do with my commitment to confront the ideological issues.
01:11:17: They must be confronted. I'm a pastor, a minister of the gospel. This stuff is evil. It is cancerous.
01:11:23: And you know, and I think about it now too, Luke, Candy and I were talking about this.
01:11:30: Oh, I'm going to, I'm going to say this. Um, Candy and I were talking about this. What, what does that say in a family like mine?
01:11:39: Oh, sure. Where my son, um, he doesn't share my blood.
01:11:44: He's adopted. Right. And, and, and we know that we, we have this, this beautiful heart of the gospel of adoption.
01:11:53: You know, God adopted us into his family. We were foreigners and God brings us in. We were strangers. We were aliens and God brought us in.
01:12:00: We've been doing together with Christ and we receive, you know, we come to the covenants, plural of promise and receive all those blessings.
01:12:06: But we were once strangers and aliens, foreigners to these covenants of promise.
01:12:11: But now we've been brought near God's adopted us. And so, um, you know, we, we didn't deserve that.
01:12:18: And we weren't part of this ethnic tribe of, of Israel. Right. We didn't share that blood.
01:12:23: Right. But we're brought into the promises and all that stuff. So in my family, I have a little boy, almost five years old.
01:12:29: He'll be five years old in a couple of weeks, almost five. And his, he is Iranian and Guatemalan.
01:12:35: Doesn't share my blood. And his family is ultimately not from this soil. What do we say to him?
01:12:43: Right. What do we say in a family like mine to someone like him? Is, is he not part of, right?
01:12:48: Is he not part of participating in, in, saving the West? Should he never have kids?
01:12:53: Right. But I mean, this is not his blood and soil, you know, and, and it's, and it's interesting. And so Candy and I were having this conversation is the, the pernicious nature of this and the cancerous nature of this.
01:13:04: She, she, I think said it to me. She said, what is it going to, what's that say? What does that ideology say to someone like our son?
01:13:11: What does it do to him and his future and his participation in the kingdom of God and saving the
01:13:16: West? And, uh, and she said, she said, you know, I, I'll bet that these guys are actually going to even attack, uh, because of their ethnic pride, they're going to attack even adopting someone who is not of your blood.
01:13:30: And sure enough, it was within like 10 minutes of her saying that she goes, look at this. Wow. And it was somebody who was in, in this whole ideology who was saying that a, a, a white family who adopts a black child, he said, um, it said in the meme, something to the effect of your, your basically like a cock allowing like Jerome to like impregnate your wife.
01:13:56: That's the pernicious cancerous thing happening with his ideology. So when someone says, what's the
01:14:02: Antioch declaration, what's your participation in it? Pastor Jeff. My answer is I want to confront that disgusting evil because it is foreign to the
01:14:10: Christian worldview. If you believe it, repent, get away from it, get away from the men who are promulgating it and teaching it.
01:14:16: Um, uh, and so I, my part of it as a minister of the gospel is a number one shock and dismay.
01:14:23: I can't believe that people are actually believing this and teaching this stuff. Um, I'm focused on the ethnic hatred and the ethnic pride.
01:14:31: Um, and, uh, so that's why I'm a part of, of, uh, putting that statement out. I think it's important to draw a line there and say,
01:14:36: Hey church, wake up, this is going on. Gotta be, gotta be very serious about this. It's surprising to me that it's happening.
01:14:43: Yeah. I, I mean, Dr. White's been telling us for, I don't know, six to nine months and we were kind of just like,
01:14:50: I think you and I even said to each other, we think he's in there. He's a little narrow. Yeah. Cause we're not on X. Right.
01:14:56: And I'm now being reminded why I've stayed off of X. I'm still not on it. It's, yeah, it's exhausting.
01:15:03: Um, so he's been telling us stuff and we're like, I don't know. And then it's just now we're seeing it and it's just deplorable.
01:15:11: It's disgusting. It's shameful. And it needs to be, uh, sent back to the pits of hell from whence it came.
01:15:18: It's just disgusting. Um, so that's the whole point. And like you said, there's two issues here. Um, the con personal conflict, um, that's for those men to handle.
01:15:29: Um, neither you or I have slandered anybody. Um, and, uh, so that doesn't change the disgustingness of what's going on.
01:15:39: And so we're responding to that. We see a growing, but we see how it potentially is influenced in our own people.
01:15:45: And so we're trying to stay on top of that. And as pastors, we're saying we should be calling this out. We shouldn't be ignoring this.
01:15:52: exactly. Um, and I will say that is, you know, when it comes to the other issue, like it's been really sad to see, um, the, the mob coming out with pitchforks and torches and not allowing a, an objective, um, process of biblical justice to take place.
01:16:10: And, um, so we'll have more to say about it in the coming weeks, but we, we want to wait.
01:16:16: Um, right. Exactly. In terms of, first of all, that conflict is between two brothers. Like we want to let them have the conversation, let the conversation take, take place between them.
01:16:26: And, um, and that, that answer is forthcoming, uh, from what I understand it's coming very soon. Um, so hopefully that'll be helpful in bringing people along to unity.
01:16:34: And then I hope, hopefully, hopefully that issue is brought to unity and peace. And then everyone could pay attention to the main issue that we are saying needs to be focused on, right?
01:16:44: Not the personality conflicts and personal conflict between brothers, but this stuff is happening in reform communities and in the reform world that it needs to be addressed, uh, because it is serious.
01:16:55: And like I said, my position is shock and dismay. Like I just, wow, I, I, I can't believe that people are thinking this and believing these sorts of things.
01:17:04: And again, my focus is on specifically the ethnic pride and ethnic hatred. Um, I think it does damage to our witness, does damage to, um, our, our role in bringing the gospel to the world and to all tribes, tongues, peoples, and nations.
01:17:18: And that's the main thing I want to focus on is I want to see the church united and I want to see us reaching out to the lost no matter their color, no matter their blood, no matter their soil.
01:17:28: Um, I thought that's what we all believed and, um, and what we're seeing is I think very, very dangerous.
01:17:33: So that's why we're a part of it. Hopefully that's a, hopefully that's a, a help. Um, and, so we're way, way over time here.
01:17:41: Are we? Okay. Uh, you want to do the, you want to tell everyone about these? When I look at a few more questions, maybe we can throw a fast one out.
01:17:47: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, um, of course, like we mentioned, Christmas is coming up. So why is you want to get your husband a super awesome gift?
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01:19:15: Christmas presents. And of course, again, put apology in the coupon code and get a sweet discount on that. Last question here.
01:19:21: Uh, let's see here. Ryan Maldonado said, uh, can you loosely touch on kosher laws in the old
01:19:28: Testament versus the new Testament? A coworker of mine says, I don't love God when I eat pig. Holy days as well. So I'll briefly touch on it when we look at, um, the, uh, well,
01:19:40: I mean, even, even, uh, we're right. That's right. Open right in front of me. Ephesians chapter two, that section of scripture we were just in, uh, saved by grace through faith and not of yourselves.
01:19:48: Paul then goes on to the discussion that by the way is highly, that's what I was just talking about. We talked about three times today.
01:19:53: Now the whole conversation of this, this, this wicked ideology, uh, that's, that's growing in reform circles.
01:20:01: we've been brought near by the blood of Christ. Ephesians chapter two, verse 13, for he himself is our peace who has made us both one and has broken down in this flesh, the dividing wall of hostility that's between Jews and Gentiles.
01:20:12: And it says by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two.
01:20:21: So making peace between what us and God, uh, of course,
01:20:27: Jews and Gentiles and might reconcile us both Jews and Gentiles to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.
01:20:35: So when someone asks the question about like these different laws of the old Testament, like, you know, if the law of God is abiding and relevant and we believe that it is, um, then what do we do about like these kosher laws and the dietary restrictions and the, the clothing and no mixed fibers and those sorts of things.
01:20:51: Well, that's what's being addressed here is the holiness code. And, um, Paul clearly is giving you inspired revelation and apostolic instruction as to how to view that.
01:21:00: Now, now that God has brought Jews and Gentiles together, broken down the hostility, now these commandments can contain ordinances.
01:21:06: The, the holiness code is done away with. Why? That separation is no longer necessary between Jews and Gentiles.
01:21:13: Uh, it's clear in scripture that that the, those rituals, those practices were to teach the
01:21:18: Jews separation and holiness, separation from the world, no syncretism, don't blend with the other cultures, don't do what they do, don't be like them.
01:21:26: It was essentially, and I got this from a friend, I think it's a great way to put it, training wheels for the people of God.
01:21:32: This is before the new covenant ways they were supposed to even in their clothing, demonstrate no syncretism.
01:21:38: Don't blend together with the nations. Don't do what they do. It's supposed to be in their clothes. They were supposed to look different in how they eat and how they dressed, how worship smelled.
01:21:46: All of that was to make them different and separate, a peculiar people, a holy people. But in Christ, now the hostility and dividing wall between Jew and Gentile is now broken apart.
01:21:56: It's gone. And now we're one new man. And now the holiness code is done away with. And so you see it in the new
01:22:03: Testament. You see explicitly where what is one, what was once unclean for the people of God to teach them to abstain from these things and to be separate now is called clean and, and even encouraged to eat.
01:22:18: And so it is interesting to me how someone could try to claim that you still have to maintain the dietary restrictions of the old
01:22:25: Testament law when it's explicitly said that you don't in the new Testament. It's very strange to me. And so I think,
01:22:31: I hope that hopefully that helps. Thank you everybody for being on the show with us today. Grateful for all of you.
01:22:38: We're going to run over quickly to the Apologia Studios. If you guys are all access,
01:22:45: I'm going to hop over there and we're going to do the Apologia after show. And about five to 10 minutes.
01:22:50: And so if you don't have all access, sign up for all access, you guys will be able to participate with us and all those things over there. And you participated with us in all the ministry happening at Apologia.
01:22:58: We love you all. We're thankful for you. Grateful for your participation in this ministry. We would say that we will catch you next week right here at Apologia radio, but we won't be, we won't be because Thanksgiving gobble gobble is my, my wife's favorite time of year.
01:23:15: It's like Christmas, Thanksgiving, but like Thanksgiving, she loves Christmas too, but like Thanksgiving is like such a, it's like a very special day for my wife.
01:23:22: And so if I was to, to come to do Apologia radio really at any point next week, murder would happen in the
01:23:30: German household. And so maybe not, not literally, potentially she's not going to let it happen.
01:23:38: So hopefully you guys will allow us along with yourselves to have a nice break and Thanksgiving to God for all of his goodness to us and enjoy your family.
01:23:45: Have a great time. Feast to the glory of God. Take pleasure in God and your family in the world that he's made.
01:23:51: And that's what I'll be doing next week. I think we only, we only have two more shows left this year. I think that's right.
01:23:56: Yeah, that's right. And, but, but very excited about next year, guys. We have lots of plans for next year. Some cool stuff coming.
01:24:03: And we're grateful for all of you. Check us out in a moment over at Apologia studios in the after show.