Monotheistic and Polytheistic Faith

Technical Setup and Opening Banter

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight, seven. Seven seven five three three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white.

And good morning, welcome to the dividing line James white here I can barely hear myself at all because we didn't test this out before we we switched microphones, but Well, we'll we'll figure this out as long as I can hear our collars it's sounding a little bit better For a while.

I was very very basic there anyway We we have some very important stuff to talk about today and we are going to be getting to that. We're going to be talking a little bit about Mormonism a little bit about Roman Catholicism, but before all of that stuff The Christmas season has begun and I've been I've been sitting on a big big secret For quite some time now and I finally can get to talk about it and That would that would be big in of itself, but we have someone on the program today.

They don't get any bigger than this. They really truly do not get any bigger than this. The secret I've been sitting on is there is a new CD that has just been released just in time for the holiday season.

I'll be putting a link on my blog after the program today. But you can you can go to you can go to The website will will even have our guest let you know where you can go even before the end of the program today to obtain for your family What will truly become your your most treasured Christmas music album and that is because For the first time ever.

I mean, this is bigger than when Elvis did blue Christmas. It it it truly is we have The new CD is called a very Milo Christmas and on the phones today. I am truly Truly truly just Excited beyond all words to have on the phone the the the king of all farm music Milo Hudson Buehler good and talk here Milo V gates between and yeah.

Hi there. Dr. Wright. How was you? I is good. Is it cold in North Dakota? Oh brother. You should have been here. I had one of those glibbers go through glibbers. Yeah, I deliver. I don't know what a glibber is.

Roberta glibber comes from Canada. From Roberta. And then. The wind she blew. 50 miles hour 50 miles an hour and it was below zero below zero for November.

This is that's just no good. Oh, it's not a good thing to below to below the farm. Were you were you up late taking care of the cows leave us?

Yeah, I am you. Us. We had to we had to change out a few things. I had the schedule. I'm sorry.

Oh, I had a schedule. Oh schedules. Yes schedule. Yes. Yeah schedule. Okay. Were you using tweezers to pull things out of their little hoofies?

Oh, no, I made them stay inside last night. Okay, I shut the barn. It was rough on me too because I got a cold. I hope my voice isn't too scratchy.

It does seem to be out of your normal range, that's okay. Well, I'm.

Gratefully, I hope I get better by tomorrow because I got a rock concert tomorrow. Oh, yeah, but I got the cold. I went to my doctor because you know, we rock stars. We got to take care of our voices.

Yes, so to my doctor here in Strasburg. It was one of the days he was in he's only there two days a week. Because he's in another town those other two days. Yes. Yeah, and then another town and the 50.

Yeah, I was. I was in my. I was in my call and I said doc, can you cure me? No, no, you got common cold. We can't cure that. I said I got. I kind of lost my temper at him. I said can't. What kind of doctor are you?

It's just a cold. Can't you cure anything? Yeah, I guess I was grumpy. You're grumpy. I said can't you cure anything? And I he said, okay, here's what you do Milo. And he kind of got mad at me. He looked at me.

Here's what I want you to do. You go back to the farm right now. Then you go go out your stock tank for 10 or 15 minutes or 20. Then you get out don't dry off and leave your clothes. He said no, but it'll give you pneumonia and I can cure pneumonia.

And how much did he charge you for that advice. I wonder that was regular price. Regular price, yeah. Now Milo, we have to ask you. This is your first Christmas album effort so far. Yeah.

Yeah, I do another one. No, it's still my first and that's that it would be. No.

Me there. I was close. But what what? Inspired you to to do a Christmas album. I had I had I had enough songs. Is that is that how it's a once there enough songs. You just do the album?

Yeah, sort of that's how this I can write and I write and I write and when I write enough songs then then this time. Now some of these and I love my fans. I wanted to give them an extra gift for Christmas.

I don't have to do this, you know, no, you don't. We realize that it's. It's like Elvis only had to do one or two. And all the rest were just the kindness. That's hard, but I love my fans.

You like I said, like I said on my blog my fans. I Desecrate all my songs to my fans. They are they are. The hydraulic fluid that lifts my baler fork. Yeah.

Christmas Album Promotion and Milo Hotzenbuhler Interview

All right. So let's let's see if we can get some some stories here. I'm a little concerned because has has the Nord Dakota Chamber of Commerce heard your CD yet? No, I don't think they done because I'm there were a couple there are a couple songs like my county agent.

That I I sort of wondered if if they're going to really appreciate. What what you said about your county agent, why don't we why don't we play folks a section of this song and we'll. Okay.

Hey, he must have gone to college. But when it comes to farming he knows a whole lot less than me.

Now Milo he knows a whole lot less than me I mean.

We make fun of the county agents. That's okay, and that's okay. I sung this for the county agents. Excuse me. Yes, I sung this for the county agents back in October. Oh, they had a conference at the State University where all where they all meet and did they like it they loved it.

They loved it.

There was also a section and I'm gonna play this whole song later, but there's also a section from The winter in North Dakota, oh, yeah. Aware. It just seems the Chamber of Commerce Might have a little struggle with.

You're talking about keeping the riffraff out.

That's our state motto. That one just got beat out for the license plates.

Okay, and also cold fingers and winter in order. There sort of is a theme here about. About That it's a little different in North Dakota than it here is here in Phoenix. Where we. Well, yeah, it is there in North Dakota not here in Phoenix.

No, we we do like decorate palm trees and our and our cacti in our rock lawns.

Well, you have. Yeah, you got those cactus down there. And then those those. What those? Chilo monsters, yeah.

That Sound like a mixture of Gila monsters and chollas, but I'm not really certain which ones which but I don't know. Either we do need to get Milo down here someday to to sing for us all but like that That would be fun, especially like in January when it's 70 here and it's 70 below there.

But I don't know how I don't know how to act. It would be in San Diego in the wind the winter for four days. Oh, yes.

Yeah I was walking on short sleeves and and unfortunately you could only afford to be there about 30 seconds in San Diego.

I was there to do concerts. Ah, they pay for everything. Oh, yeah. I was high I my hog was high. That your hog was.

Now it seems like there's one particular company that is very close to Milo's heart. And I'm not sure if if you're sponsored anything like that. I wouldn't want to ask a question like that. But but let me just play a little segment of this particular song here.

Okay. It's supposed to be playing.

When I kiss my Old tractor goodbye He has a big lot all yellow and green prettiest tractors you ever seen.

The John Deere dealers come into town now. I hear a lot about John. Is John Deere big up there.

Maybe possibly. Well, it's not the only tractor there is but there's populace. Yeah. Yeah.

So green and yellow is sort of well that and well, I guess.

Wisconsin do because people think then you root for the Peckers.

I was about to say because what does anybody in North Dakota root for the the Nebraska Cornhuskers? Cornhuskers. Never. They used to be a really good football team, but they've sort of fallen on hard times.

Reason.

I don't know about those things. I'm busy with rock and roll understand. Now. Which big school was that would be the University of North Dakota. I.

And what I've never rich even even rich is going the the what the University of North Dakota. What's their mascot?

They're in trouble with with the natives. Oh the Fighting Sioux. That in the APC APC those guys they want to make them change it.

Yeah, that happens all over the place. That's bad. So they're fussy and bossy now now so Milo. Where can people go right now because I can tell I'm looking at our video monitors. There are crowds outside of our studios right now.

And they have signs saying we want Milo's CD and we don't have them here so you can see him on your camera. It's amazing. I mean your popularity. You just you just have no idea, but I grow by leaps and bounds.

So so for all the folks are listening, how can folks get hold of a very Milo Christmas? Oh.

The best thing to do is go to my website. And what's your website? That's the W W W dot farmboy music.

Com farmboy music.

Calm and make sure you put those W's in there. That's true. Otherwise, you'll end up on some other Internet.

Which we don't want to do. Yeah.

I know one guy to put M's instead of W's. And where do you end up? Everything was upside down.

On the screen, yes, that's. That's not a good thing. But so now and you have a blog on your on your website, too. You bet I do you. I'm up with the times. Yes, you. Yes, that's people.

They make fun of us here in North Dakota because they say we're behind the times. Yes, not us. Not you. We're up with the times.

Well, in fact, in fact, I don't if I'm I think I'm correct. I think you actually have high-speed Internet in in North Dakota and she always say they're for high-speed. It's not like it's not like poor Carla up in Canada who will be listening to this program tomorrow.

Because it'll take that long to get to her but you actually right? Yeah, it's sort of sad. We thought that's Canada, too. Yeah, their chocolate tastes better up there it does. Yeah, I touch they got better chocolate.

I didn't know though. It's a horse apiece. Slow internet better chocolate. Okay. Yeah, take your pick. Take your pick. Yeah. So anyway now Milo since everybody knows everybody's going to your website right now I hope your servers can survive the you know, the stress.

They don't crash like that. Now I noticed also on this very Milo Christmas that You showed just the generosity of your heart in that you allowed a lesser-known person to Sing some songs on a very Milo Christmas.

And so I was wondering This this Clyde Valman fellow. Yeah is is he around does this follows me around everywhere? It follows you around everywhere dogger.

But you all get along fairly well, I wanted to get one of those retaining orders against him.

Okay, but is is he is he around right now trust me the dog will get him. Okay, I usually outside with an autograph book. Okay, let's see how you talk to Clyde. All right. Well while my oh Clyde yeah. Hello Clyde Bowman.

I wanted to I wanted to Thank you for singing some songs on Milo's Christmas. Oh, well, thank you for the favor. I have a cold too. I caught it from Milo. I imagine you two are very close. Very very very close obviously.

We are now joined by by Clyde the Clyde Bowman and we have so much fun with with Milo Hotzenbuehler. You've got to tell folks Clyde. First of all, you actually work for a living once in a while, too. You teach you teach voice and You you do serious stuff, but tell us where Milo came from.

Tell us tell us a story if you would speak German as well as English and just as easy as a sensitive topic to be Discussed. Then you didn't have to chase the kids out of the room. He just. We always wanted to know what that was about.

We want to appreciate our heritage to like if you had a rock band. So when they weren't when they weren't on stage doing concerts. Right. So there's a whole group at first we had a whole family of Hots and Buellers.

Yeah, there was Milo and his brother Daryl and then there was sister June and then An assortment of cousins that changed with every concert. No, I don't want to get too personal here.

But about how long ago is this now? This was in.

1974 okay. The very first Milo concert was in 1974 1974 State College in Western, North Dakota. Oh my. And we had this huge following. Very good businessmen to our first big ship money for the theater department.

Uh-huh. Yep. We pettered people.

So you raised lots of money for the scholarship after expenses. It was about a hundred and twenty dollars. We were very good businessmen. Yes. Yes. Yes.

So That's that's where the Milo thing came from and I was doing most of the writing. So so after when college ended and we all went our separate ways then once in a while people would ask for Ask for me to come over and do some Milo songs and I ended up doing the state FFA convention Future Farmers of America, believe me.

Nobody does the act I do and then Like I say started getting calls first time it was full-time.

Now how many how many CDs have you put out now. The Christmas album is number five number five and they're all available at farmboymusic .com now. You did get the dog. You did get to put some Of your own music and I believe you're singing with your wife on Most of them and then also does your.

Is it your daughter that joins us. Our daughter that joins us on one.

Yes, I've been blessed with it today. Yes, that's what I heard. We're a little bit behind you.

That's right. That's right. Just a few months.

We have always enjoyed singing going out and we've gone out for many years and churches and camps.

Indeed. Let me let me let me just play a section from when I survey here so that you can hear.

Clyde and Janet and Sarah all all together here. That's that is as beautiful music now. I you know, I.

For people who are wondering what in the world we're doing. Clyde is a regular in our chat channel. I don't know how long you've been coming in now. It's been a while and I remember yeah, I was in pretty early on.

I remember you had a computer problem remember and you just disappeared and. So I I think I surprised you to no end. Because we're like well, where did his Nick and channels. Mutato we call him the the mutated spudster but.

So all of a sudden I don't remember where you were, but your cell phone rang and it was me going. Okay. Cuz it's a little bit of a family there when people just sort of disappear you start going boy.

I hope everything's okay. And yeah, that's one wonderful and unique thing about channel here.

Yeah, it is and then you let us know when you're going out on the road and. And you often invite me along in the form of mp3 a format. Yeah. Certainly haven't and then of course you'll come in there once in a while and you'll say man I've got a cold, you know, and and I'm always going man.

I did some singing I'm not gonna do it anymore but I did some singing when I was younger took voice and all that stuff and and it is really Hard to try to sing when you're not feeling a hundred percent and especially if you've got to go out and do Milo stuff now, of course Milo cracks his voice on purpose at the end of songs.

That may make it easier for you. Don't need to be able to get through a phrase. Oh, no kidding. And so whenever I hope by tomorrow I can do that. Yeah, when I hear you Talking about you've got this out of the other thing.

I'm always like, oh man. I hope he gets over that so we need to find you some Some way of keeping all the bugs away because it's just part of this line of work. Certainly is have to be prepared. Alright well Clyde thank you very much for calling in today and like I said, I'm gonna put a link on the on the blog to Very Milo Christmas, and I really hope folks will pick it up I know that what I'm gonna do here at the end.

I played the song. I'm gonna go ahead and and Head out with the the full version of winter in North Dakota. I played this for my mom I think I told you in channel. Yeah, and she she lived for about 18 months in Bottineau, North Dakota back in the late 30s early 40s.

Okay, and She said they had a record winner that year. They were having to fly hay in and stuff with planes and drop them because that you just couldn't get to the cattle and stuff because it was so cold and it was just it was just really really really rough and I guess Bottineau's right up near the Canadian border from looking at you can spit in the Canada.

Yeah, it's it is really really really cold. Not that you want to do nothing that might be illegal in Canada, but but As she was listening to you. It wasn't that she was laughing. She was going. Uh-huh.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, you know she's going I'm gonna tell you that year I had to walk two miles uphill in the snow both directions to school and she was just like yep This is this is how it works. This is this is North Dakota.

Yeah, it is. Did you want to say something rich?

Yeah, but you have to understand. Folks have to understand. In about two days after that your mom started laughing.

Okay, you have to understand. My my dear mother does that's. Rich knows that that literally you'll tell my mom a joke and two days later She'll call you up laughing because she just got it and. And that makes jokes so much more fun.

You know that way when you do that, but she really enjoyed Winter in North Dakota because she just thought yeah, that's that's what it was like so I thought you'd enjoy Knowing how your music was received by someone there, so thanks a lot Clyde.

We love you. We hope it's the albums a big smash hit. We'll do everything we can to let folks know about it. Well. You're very kind. Right, thanks, brother. All right. All right, let's let's go ahead and head out with and then come back with some some theological stuff, but we'll head out with Milo Hotzenbuehler and winter in North Dakota.

Do your chores and go to bed all four seasons summer winter spring and fall. All winter is the coldest and the longest of them all. Get your long johns put your hood up and pull your cap your skin all covered up when in the snow you go.

Justification by Faith and the Problem of Christian Publishing

You'll freeze your leg. There's no place I'd rather in Watford City Waiting for a storm to clear. We get a real big blister three or four times every year. The history of the Christian Church pivots on the doctrine of justification by faith.

Once the core of the Reformation the church today often ignores or misunderstands this foundational doctrine. In his book the God who justifies Theologian James White calls believers to a fresh appreciation of Understanding of and dedication to the great doctrine of justification and then provides an exegesis of the key scripture texts on this theme.

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Get pulpit crimes in the bookstore at a omen org. This portion of the dividing line has been made possible by the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. The Apostle Paul spoke of the importance of solemnly testifying of the gospel of the grace of God.

The proclamation of God's truth is the most important element of his worship in his church. The elders and people of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church invite you to worship with them this coming Lord's Day.

The morning Bible study begins at 9 30 a .m. And the worship service is at 10 45. Evening services are at 6 30 p .m. On Sunday and the Wednesday night prayer meeting is at 7. The Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church is located at 3805 North 12th Street in Phoenix.

You can call for further information at 602 to 6 grace. If you're unable to attend you can still participate with your computer and real audio at prbc .org. Where the ministry extends around the world through the archives of sermons and Bible study lessons available 24 hours a day.

No, most people don't know is that that's actually Milo on the sacks with John test. He's been all over the place man.

He's very highly highly acclaimed and demanded and All that guy I think the words notorious notorious, yes the notorious Milo Hudson Buehler That's a that's the next album title the notorious Milo Hudson Buehler in a black hat and sunglasses or something like that actually, I've seen Milo's sunglasses and they're a little bit on the scary side, but He Doesn't a pair of Oakley's though.

He got a pair of Oakley's so he can look he can look cool. So But I think only Clyde wears those but anyway back to important things. Not that not that Milo's not important just different realm of importance here some of you may have been following the blogs posted by Rob Bowman.

Rob has joined the Parchment and pen pen and parchment, whatever it is blog site and He caught my attention when he mentioned that his review of the millet McDermott's book called claiming Christ a Mormon evangelical debate Which has one of the worst covers I've ever seen on a book put up by Brazos press That his review of the book had been rejected by Church any Christianity post-christianity Something today tomorrow what it once was or will never be or I forget the name of the magazine.

But that particular apostasy today. Is that what you're saying? Okay Let's just say Christianity Day has really changed directions in in the recent number of years and His review of the book was rejected because he was told that Some of his reflections in the book according to the editorial staff did not actually reflect what was in the book which of course if I were to ever to tell someone like that if I was ever to say if I was if I was in a position of having to review and Be an editor in a in a place like Christianity Day, and I was gonna tell someone the reason we're not gonna use your material Is because we don't feel that you were being accurate was being said, you know what that means I need to give him an example.

I need to back up what I just said and shockingly enough They didn't do that. They didn't bother to tell him why? That was the case and I read the review and The citations were accurate and so on so forth.

So it does seem a little bit odd I do have a feeling that there are certain people in post evangelicalism that have a tremendous amount of influence. One of them is the head of a particularly progressive Theological seminary in California some of us graduate from there and I just have a feeling that the word has gone out that these kinds of dialogues are going to be encouraged Within the Christian publishing industry and anyone who naysays them Just well might as well not bother doing so because you're not gonna get published at least within their venues that that is and Some of the criticisms that now I'm Considerably less polished than Rob Bowman in what I say, I'm a little bit more blunt and especially when it comes to Mormonism Those of you who listen Regulated as a program you read the blog.

You know that back after Mitt Romney got into the race. I spent a fair amount of time Posting on my blog a lengthy portion from my book is the Mormon my brother. So I wrote this book a number of years ago.

It actually will be back in print. We've promised it. It will be there and So I've written on this subject did so a long time ago and I got a fact I got an email from a Mormon Talking about how I you know how hateful I am as like I wrote back and said would you would you mind showing me?

From what you say you read These words of hate and of course 98 percent of time you write back to something like that. You never hear back from them because they're not actually either. It's bad email address.

They're using a fake name. Whatever that kind of thing and I spent the time to document from LDS sources, and I I took the time in the book to go through what are the most official sources. You know how can you bend over backwards to make sure you're accurately reflecting the teachings of the Mormon Church?

And I spent I wrote an entire chapter again Directly from the leaders of the Mormon Church, and here's where they say you know this is revelation this revelation. This isn't but this is authoritative.

And you know going all the way down and then I and then I took all of my material nearly a hundred pages worth of citations and I broke it down according to these categories of Differing levels of authority and all of them are saying the same thing and so I bent over backwards.

I've never had anyone anyone Express or exert the kind of effort I did to be fair in representing Mormonism that I did in representing Mormonism when they're talking about me never. Okay, so you bend over backwards.

That's what you're supposed to do and That that's how you that that's how you you know I think honor truth, and that's that's not popular. That's not going to make your books the most popular books. They're not going to stay in in in print as long, but that's the way you've just got to do it.

I Don't know how else I'll say it. So I'm a little blunt when it comes to talking about Mormonism because I have spent the time and the study To be able to say without question what Mormonism has taught Historically concerning the nature of God now I could go along with that and say you know what I've also Stood outside the the general conference the Mormon Church has stood outside in the sidewalks in Mesa, Arizona and spent I don't know how many hours over the 20 years or so that we did that kind of stuff.

And talked to Mormons and the Mormons confirmed those things and and so you add to that the research We've done it's not that we just did this in some ivory tower we took this to the streets and Have shared the gospel proclaimed the gospel of Jesus Christ to many a Mormon person the fundamental Foundational issue between Mormonism and Christianity is that Mormonism is a different religion because it has a different God.

We're not talking about a slightly different perception of certain difficult to understand Trinitarian issues. We're talking about the difference between monotheism and polytheism and Anybody who reads Joseph Smith?

Reads him in his context reads him in his own language is fair to what he said. Knows that what I'm saying is true. This isn't even a debatable issue it's just the facts and To to make that just one area of disagreement is to completely Destroy any meaningful discussion of the subject of the difference between Christianity and Mormonism because there is no more basic way to define a religion than whether you believe there is one true and eternal God the creator of all things or whether you believe well something else and Mormonism believes something else it does not believe there is one true and eternal God.

It does not believe that God is self-sustaining and eternal that he's eternally been what he is. He is one God amongst many gods. There were many gods before him. There will be many gods after him and.

So everything else you can discuss is secondary to that because once you start with that massively different foundation. Completely different view of God that God is of our species that man men angels and God are of the same species.

That is Mormon orthodoxy now if the Mormon Church wants to come out tomorrow if the prophet the first presidency the quorum of the twelve want to come out tomorrow and say we deny denounce and separate ourselves from all of the teachings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and all the prophets and apostles the Mormon Church up to this day.

Who have reaffirmed this belief over and over and over again? Okay, now we've got something to talk about. But you also no longer have a Mormon Church at that point. I assure you you have no Mormon Church at that point in time and so if If that is the foundation then having any discussions about What Mormons think about Jesus and what Christians think about Jesus and even trying to go?

Oh, well, we can appreciate what Mormons say about Jesus here, or we can appreciate what Mormons say about Jesus here. I find to be absolutely worthless. Because we're talking about a completely different religion.

If you're if you're starting off with the idea that the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob is an exalted man from another planet. Who worshipped a God before him who worshipped a God before him who worshipped a God before him?

What what? What use is there in going? Oh, well, we can appreciate what Mormonism says about Jesus here or about Jesus there. What is the use here? I Don't get it. So one of the things that Rob Bowman pointed out was some of the statements made by by McDermott in this book for example Evangelicals page 56 evangelicals should be thankful for a host of other Mormon declarations about Jesus that Professor Millett detailed that his suffering and death save us.

No, they don't. That we are cleansed of our sins by his atonement and resurrection. What the one in the Garden of Gethsemane? How about the doctrine of blood atonement? And that his sufferings. I'm obviously making some comments here and that his sufferings were endured for the sake of all human beings.

Second Nephi 921. Well, obviously McDermott doesn't believe in reformed theology in good evangelical fashion. The Book of Mormon proclaims the natural man is an enemy to God and has been from the fall of Adam.

Excuse me. But if you don't know the difference between the Book of Mormon and modern Mormon theology and the fact that Joseph Smith had not even developed his doctrine of God at the time of writing the Book of Mormon and That he was actually presenting a modalistic view of the Trinity in the Book of Mormon Etc, etc, and then you don't join to that.

What the fall of Adam even in the Book of Mormon means? He fell upward. Hello, not the the rebellion against God that you have in the scripture then why even mention things like this and that and that that will never end until he put us off the natural man and become of the Saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord.

Mosiah 319. It declares that all mankind were in a lost and in a fallen state and ever would be and and ever would be saved. I think there's a typo here. They should rely on this Redeemer first. Nephi 10 4 through 6 in other words.

Every human being must trust personally in the Redeemer for salvation. Well, that's one thing they have to do. But there's this thing called the four fundamentals of the gospel and it's not enough just to believe.

There's all these other things and you can bring in exaltation, etc. Etc, etc. And then of course the main thing that Rob Bowman pointed out Was was this particular statement here? It's on page 60. Here is the statement.