July 23, 2018 Show with Dr. Tim J. R. Trumper on “Reformed Outreach to the Unchurched: Introducing the International Outreach Publication ‘The Way’ or ‘El Camino’ (Spanish)”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this, what date is today?

23rd day of July 2018 and I am delighted to have as a returning guest today on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Tim J .R. Trumper, who is founder and president from, or should I say founder and president of, From His Fullness Ministries.

He is also the former senior minister of Seventh Reformed Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan and today we are going to be discussing a reformed outreach to the unchurched, introducing the international outreach publication The Way, or El Camino in Spanish, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Tim J .R. Trumper.

Thank you very much Chris, glad to be with you.

Background, Conversion, and Ministry in Reformed Outreach

And for the sake of refreshing the memories of our listeners, if you could tell us a little bit about your background, where you were born and raised, where you came to the faith of Jesus Christ, specifically the Reformed faith, and how you eventually made your way to Grand Rapids, Michigan in the United States.

Oh thank you Chris, well I'm from...

For how many years?

Ninety.

Wow.

Yeah, the ravages of...

Great, well praise God. I may have asked you this before, but I just can't remember the answer. My former pastor here at Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, David Campbell, although he was a Reformed Baptist, was educated at the Free Church of Scotland Seminary, and I was just curious if you knew him.

Yes, I've known David, I heard about him when I went to the college, he was the...

Great, and of course you're probably aware now he is pastoring the North Preston Evangelical Church in England.

I heard he had returned and...

Yes, I'm looking forward to his return as my guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, hopefully in the near future, and if you happen to talk to him before I do, please send him my regards.

Oh, I'll certainly do so.

And tell us now about from his fullness ministries.

Yes, well maybe I ought to step back, my conversion, you asked me about that as well, and I think I grew up a lot behind pressing toward the mark of the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Amen. Well now, let us know something about from his fullness ministries.

Yeah, gladly so. I was ministering...

A lot of Reformed churches out there, too.

Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right. But I became more and more burdened...

Do you know my friend Dr. Conrad Mbewe out in Zambia?

Yes, I first met him as a young man in Lusaka Airport on my first visit.

Well I wouldn't want to give people the impression that he is obese or anything, he seems like he's in good health.

Yes, I'm thankful for that. We were both young men at the time, and there was a group of young men who came...

If you want to rekindle the friendship, I urge you to come with me this January to the G3 Conference in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta, because he is one of the speakers there.

Oh, great, great. Great.

And I would strongly urge you to register for an exhibitor's booth from his fullness ministries. I am going to be manning for the third year in a row an exhibitor's booth for Iron Trip and Zion Radio at the G3 Conference, which stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory.

And it is a reformed conference, and they are expecting between 4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people this January. So I would strongly urge you to register for a booth, as I will be doing. My booths at this conference have proven to be very fruitful and beneficial to me and my ministry.

Oh, good. Well, I appreciate it.

Wow.

And so I thought, well, here I am in the fold, not only as a minister, but also as an exhibitor.

Praise God. Well, I'm going to give our listeners our email address if they would like to join us on the air with a question of their own. That's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

The Way and Its International Outreach Format

Well, now let us know about the publication, The Way, that you wanted to highlight today.

Well, that goes back to my time in Wales, really. My father was very... And then in 1982, Personnel to be...

Now is this actually on paper or is it an internet publication?

Well, what we've tried to do is give various options, finances... So what I do is...

And about four from the United States.

Well, actually, with all the Hispanics in the world covered America than before. And then the second...

Great. Well, now, before I forget, since I do have so many friends and brethren and mentors who are members and leaders in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church denomination, I'd like to know something about the congregation where you are now a member.

Oh, well, I go to... It's a wonderful congregation.

By the way, I don't know if you have any contact with John R. DeWitt, who was at one time, as you know, the pastor at Seventh Reformed. I've lost touch with him and I'd love to interview him if you have any way of contacting him.

Oh, well, I...

Great. I appreciate that. Well, we do have a couple of emails here from listeners who would like to ask you questions. Let's see here. The first questioner is RJ from White Plains, New York, who wants you to compare and contrast your Christian experience between Wales and the United States.

And while you're at it, you might as well expand that to the United Kingdom. So we get more of a broad understanding of what your response might be.

Yes, although I have to say it's nice for somebody to identify Wales.

Yes.

So, well done RJ. Well, I grew up in Wales and I've lived there. And I think the reason for that is because when you're in Britain and you see a lot of American TV, it's the East, you know, Jerry Springer and...

That's actually kind of interesting that the folks in the UK would have that impression because as a young kid, I used to watch BBC television, the specific shows that the American PBS public broadcasting systems would air.

One of them became my favorite television program as a child through my teens and 20s, Monty Python's Flying Circus. Now that I'm a Christian, I don't know how much of that show I would watch because you had full-blown nudity on that show, whereas that would never happen in those days.

In fact, not even today in American television. So it's interesting to me that those in the UK would look upon America with a frowned face in those regards.

Well, it may be more of a Christian impression, but what I found was... Well, what I found when I came to the United States was a very...

Well, thank you, RJ, in White Plains, New York. Keep listening to Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio and spreading the word about it in White Plains, New York and beyond. Let's see here. We have BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who asks, in Wales and even in a broader sense, the United Kingdom, what is the state of ecumenism?

Not only the negative kind where you have evangelicals having full-blown ecumenical relationships with apostate liberals and Roman Catholics, but also the good kind that is based on the scripture where sometimes we have, unfortunately, those who go to one extreme or the other when it comes to ecumenism.

They are either full-blown ecumenists or they are isolationists and even perhaps bordering on being cultic in the way that they do not have any kind of cooperation or communication or fellowship with those outside their small sect or belief system, according to a particular denomination or fellowships, confession or creed.

Well, that's another great question. I believe the name was BB. Well, again, I may be...

Amen. Yes, I am really enjoying seeing the commitment to biblical ecumenism that Dr. Joel Beeky is expressing through not only his own selections of places where he preaches, but even what he is publishing through Reformation Heritage Books.

They are not only those from the Dutch Reformed wing of the Reformation, but they are now including a lot of Reformed Baptists, which I happen to be a part of. So I'm very delighted to see that kind of healthy ecumenism in a biblical sense there.

Good.

Sponsorship, Listener Questions, and a Reformed View of Ecumenism

We have to go to our first break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away. God willing, we'll be right back with Dr. Tim J .R. Trumper after these messages from our sponsors.

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

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You need to read.

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Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull. Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastors' Study because everyone needs a pastor.

Welcome back, and that was another Orthodox Presbyterian that is no stranger to our listeners here at Iron Trip and Zion Radio, my dear friend Pastor Bill Shishko, formerly the pastor of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, New York, now retired and running the Reformation Metro New York Parachurch Organization where he is a domestic missionary, and that is under the oversight of the Orthodox Presbyterian denomination.

And I urge you to listen and call in to Bill's show every Saturday, 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time, wlie540am .com on the Internet via live streaming, or if you live in the New York Tri-State area, you could actually tune in on the radio on the AM dial at 540 a .m. every Saturday, 12 noon to 1 p .m.

And in fact, it goes even to parts of Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Massachusetts on the 540 a .m. dial during those hours of 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on 540 a .m. on the dial. But we are now back with Dr. Tim J .R. Trumper, founder and president of From His Fullness Ministries.

We are discussing a reformed outreach to the unchurched, introducing the international outreach publication The Way, or El Camino in Spanish. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Reaching the Unchurched, Millennial Skepticism, and The Way International

And let's see, we have a question from CJ in Lyndonhurst, Long Island, New York, who says, I know that the description of your topic today is reaching the unchurched. About what percentage of the world that you're aware of, or at least the areas where you have missionary outreach, are the citizens unchurched?

And what kind of reaction do typically these types of folks have to the gospel? I believe in my own experience, an unchurched person might have less of a hard heart than a person who is entrenched in a specific religion that is false.

You know, you said something interesting about millennials,.

That I first heard something similar maybe a year or two ago that surprised me. I had heard from at least two of my guests, who do a lot of evangelical outreach to the millennials, and some on college campuses and so on.

And what surprised me was that the millennials, these individuals were trying not to broad brush, because of course there's exception to rules. But they were saying that a significant number of millennials are repulsed or repelled away from seeker-sensitive type churches.

You might think that the opposite was true. But they seem to view that as a slick public relations marketing team's approach to really trick people into church and lure them in. They seem to see through that in great numbers, and are turned away from that.

Ironically, a good number of them are being drawn into more traditional worship services and so on. I'm assuming since you said just a few minutes ago, you might have some agreement with that.

Yes, I think I do. They want to know the way in isolation.

We have a listener in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, Harrison, who says, I just tuned in, but I think it might be wise for your guest to distinguish and contrast his publication, known as The Way, from a major cult of the same name.

Yes, I don't know if you're aware. There is a cult called The Way. I think it's even called The Way International. Are you familiar with that?

No, I'm not actually. I'm not. But when I thought of the title, of course. Right, right, right.

And just like there are heretical groups using the terms free grace now.

Oh, right.

And, of course, that's a precious term that Calvinists have historically used. And you have many liberal mainline churches going under the name Reformed. It doesn't mean we're going to throw out that because of the fact of the way it's being used in many circumstances.

So I can completely understand what you're saying.

Satan is a great mimic, and it's a backhanded.

Yes, and The Way actually has a sore spot with me because my nephew's wife, who passed away probably a decade or more ago, but there was a bit of a tug of war over her soul going on with a local Orthodox Presbyterian church up in Schenectady, New York, that I had referred my niece to.

And they were being very wonderful and loving and reaching out to her. And there was also the local Way group that was trying to seduce her into their group. And it was kind of an uncomfortable situation.

But thank you anyway for your comment there. Let's see, who was that?

Harrison.

Harrison in Mechanicsburg. You have a better memory than I do. And keep listening to Iron Trip and Zion Radio and spreading the word there in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania and beyond. Let's see here. We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who asks, I know that there is disagreement amongst Reformed churches and parachurch ministries and individuals on the use of labels.

There are some people who would agree with our theology nearly 100 percent, if not completely, who prefer not to be known as Reformed or Calvinistic. What is the approach that The Way and your other ministry from His Fullness take in regard to this type of approach of the use or non-use of labels?

Well, I think that's a...

Now, did you say there's a demand for death, D-E-A-T-H?

Yes.

And if you could, when we return, I'd like you to pick up on that.

Yeah, sure.

And be more detailed with that. Because we have to go to our midway break right now. And this is the part of the program where there is an elongated break because of the requirements of Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida.

They require a longer break in between our two major segments because they air their own commercials and public service announcements. So please be patient as we have this elongated break and use this time to not only write questions for Dr. Tim J .R. Trumper, our guest today, on the issue of introducing the international outreach publication The Way or El Camino, more specifically, Reformed outreach to the unchurched.

If you could send in a question to chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. In fact, since Dr. Trumper has been a pastor, we will open up questions to pastoral issues. And I can understand if you want to remain anonymous for questions like that, we would welcome that.

But the email, again, is chrisarnson at gmail .com. But also take this time during this elongated break to write down information provided by our advertisers. But don't go away. God willing, we're going to be right back with Dr. Tim J .R. Trumper right after these messages from our sponsors.

Sovereign Grace, Labels, and the Demand for Death

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Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco. Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently he wrote a book titled Consider the Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword. Dan also has a master's degree in theology. Dan handles serious injury and malpractice cases in all 50 states.

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God-centered, Christ-exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid-ground-books .com. That's solid-ground-books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastors Study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio. Www .wlie540am .com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the Pastors Study by calling in with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull. Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastors Study because everyone needs a pastor.

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Before we return to our discussion with Dr. Tim J .R. Trumper on a reformed outreach to the unchurched introducing the international outreach publication The Way or El Camino in Spanish. Before we return to that discussion, we just have a few very important announcements to make.

First of all, next week on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. What am I saying? Not next week. I'm talking about this week. This week on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio starting tomorrow, we have Dr. Stephen J. Wellam returning to the program who is going to be discussing the book The Son of God Incarnate The Doctrine of Christ.

That will be the part two of the discussion on that that we already began last Tuesday. So there is such a depth of information in this book that we required at least a second interview on it and we may have him back for several more interviews because I think it's nearly 500 pages long, this book.

The Son of God Incarnate, The Doctrine of Christ. That's tomorrow, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Then we have Nancy Snyder joining us on Wednesday to discuss the Gospel for Moving Targets Helping Active Children Grow in Grace.

And then on Thursday, we have John Sampson, pastor of the King's Chapel or I think it's just called King's Chapel in Peoria, Arizona. And he is going to be discussing Seven Deceptions of the Charismatic Movement.