April 29, 2020 Show with Mack Tomlinson on “The Loving Pastoral Care of Faithful Shepherds”

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April 30, 2020

April 29, 2020 MACK TOMLINSON, author, conference speaker & pastor at Providence Chapel, Denton, TX, who will address: “The LOVING PASTORAL CARE of FAITHFUL SHEPHERDS”

00:05: Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown
00:10: Carwile, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:50: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
00:58: And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
01:10: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
01:20: This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 29th day of April 2020.
01:30: And this is day number two with my dear friend, Pastor Mac Tomlinson.
01:37: He is an author, conference speaker, and pastor at Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas, and he is also the founder of Fellowship Conference New England in Portland, Maine, and we're going to be telling you about that conference momentarily.
01:54: Today we begin a new topic with Pastor Mac Tomlinson. Yesterday we had the topic that was,
02:05: I believe, very fascinating in edifying the importance of corporate prayer, and today we begin a new subject, as I said, and it is the loving pastoral care of faithful shepherds.
02:24: And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back for a second day of discussion on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, my dear friend,
02:32: Pastor Mac Tomlinson. Thanks, Chris. It's a blessing to be back with you two days in a row.
02:38: Amen. And I want to give our listeners, once again, the email address right away in the event that they would like to send in a question.
02:50: chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com
02:55: And as always, please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the
03:02: USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
03:09: And once again, for those of our listeners who missed you yesterday, if you could tell us about Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas.
03:20: Yeah, Denton is 30 miles north of Dallas -Fort Worth, a university town of about 120 ,000.
03:28: And Providence Chapel was planted 20 years ago by God's grace, and we've had steady growth.
03:37: So we're a Reformed Baptist church that is endeavors to be loving and prayerful, and we see wonderful, loving relationships within the church, and we hope that any believers or unbelievers who are turning their thoughts to God and eternity during these critical days of the coronavirus would find us.
04:09: We're here in Denton, and I think in the immediate weeks ahead, we will start meeting in a more limited way, in person, in public.
04:23: So we welcome all near us to come and worship with us and let us meet you.
04:31: Or if you're ever traveling through the Dallas -Fort Worth area on a weekend, Providence Chapel, Denton, Texas.
04:41: And once again, the website for Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas is
04:46: ProvidenceDenton .org, ProvidenceDenton .org.
04:52: And now, tell our listeners about the exciting conference that is scheduled for this
04:58: August, the Fellowship Conference New England in Portland, Maine. Yeah, well, we're praying that it will get to happen.
05:06: You know, the Maine governor seems to be very political these days, like many liberal governors across the land.
05:19: So we hope the state of Maine will allow public conferences by then.
05:25: So pray for that, please. But the first week of August will be the first Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.
05:32: I think that's the 6th through the 8th. We've been meeting as a conference for a number of years now, the first week of August.
05:43: And a lot has caused the conference to grow. It's not huge. It's smaller, but it's more intimate, relational.
05:50: And this year, we have, in what is my opinion, two of the most outstanding preachers alive today anywhere in the world.
06:01: Dr. Joel Beeke from Grand Rapids, Michigan, and Dr. Jeffrey Thomas from London, England, are committed to being there.
06:09: So come if the Lord would allow you to come. It will be special days. Amen. Well, as many of those who love
06:20: Jeffrey Thomas, they may more readily connect him with Aberystwyth Wales than London, England.
06:28: I know that he does have a home now in London, England, but he is most well -known for being the pastor of Alfred Place Baptist Church in Aberystwyth Wales, where he served for over half a century.
06:42: And that church is now being pastored by his grandson after he retired.
06:48: And the website for this conference is fellowshipconferencenewengland .com,
06:55: fellowshipconferencenewengland .com, and that's August 6 -8 at the Deering Center Community Church in Portland, Maine.
07:01: And as I said yesterday, I do intend to be there. So God willing, I will be meeting many of you who respond to our promotion of this conference, and I look forward to seeing you there.
07:16: I also wanted to give our listeners a wonderful update on my oldest brother
07:25: John. Many of you know that just by listening to this program that our dear brother
07:33: Mack Tomlinson, my guest today, he is,
07:40: I just got a message from a listener that my voice is quiet.
07:46: So I'm trying to elevate the volume here. Pastor Mack Tomlinson lives only about ten minutes away from my brother
07:56: John, who lives in Justin, Texas. My brother John has critical stage emphysema, and he just had a very frightening few days.
08:10: He was rushed to the hospital last week, and it was a very serious situation.
08:18: His wife and daughter in Texas did not know whether or not he was ever going to be leaving that hospital again.
08:27: And it just so happens that all of you who have been praying regularly for my brother
08:36: John, and fervently, and who have been reporting to me that you've been praying for him and you've been asking for updates, well, he is being discharged today.
08:47: He's being sent home. So I am praising God for that. I am praising
08:52: God for his apparent enthusiasm over Jesus Christ.
09:01: And I just ask of you to all to continue to pray for him and pray that a friendship blossoms between Pastor Mack and my brother.
09:10: Pastor Mack has visited him in the hospital once before the coronavirus hysteria broke out.
09:19: And he has also been in communication with my brother for over a year on the telephone.
09:27: So hopefully this will finally become a true friendship, and I will be thrilled to hear updates on that from my brother and from Mack.
09:40: Well, today we are going to be addressing a very important topic, the loving pastoral care of faithful shepherds.
09:52: What was it that compelled you to want to discuss this today, Pastor Mack? Well, I've been in ministry formally for 46 years, pastoring for 43 of those 46 years.
10:11: It's kind of all that I've ever done. I was going to be a coach before the Lord saved me, and I soon, after my conversion, lost interest in coaching, kind of like Peter lost interest in fishing because he was going to fish in a different way.
10:29: And so I was brought into pastoring in my 20s during my years in seminary in the 1970s.
10:39: And over these decades, four and a half decades now, I've seen in myself that one of the lacks in my own life in pastoring well has been when
10:58: I'm not loving well, when I'm not maintaining a love for Christ's sheep. And so I've come to the conviction over the years that having a loving, caring heart as shepherds of God's people, of both people inside the church and outside the church, is essential to long -term quality pastoral care of the flock, and it's essential to long -term ministry in general.
11:31: Because if people we preach to week in and week out don't feel loved by us, they don't know we love them, then they're not going to get near as much out of our pulpit ministry.
11:44: And I'm talking about loving those who are nice and popular and gifted and givers, and the not -so -nice, the not -so -gifted, the not -so -popular, the least among us, as Jesus put it.
11:59: So I believe that this is the single most important character and grace that a pastor must have, is a loving heart for people and toward the saints.
12:14: And I think every pastor should excel in this.
12:21: Well, I know for one that as much as I love brilliant men and eloquent men, and men who are theologically even on the level of genius,
12:41: I would still prefer a loving shepherd over one that had all of those previously listed qualities that did not possess the love and the heart of a shepherd.
12:58: Right. Many of us have heard that cliché, and it really rings true.
13:07: People don't care how much we know until what? They know how much we care.
13:15: And so what people in our churches need, especially if we're a pastor month after month, year after year, they're not truly impressed with our genius, though they may respect it.
13:32: They expect quality biblical ministry. They expect us to rightly divide and handle the
13:38: Word of God. But they have the emotional and psychological need to feel loved by us, not just verbally, but in life, in word and deed.
13:52: So this is why this topic is on my heart, to strengthen church leaders with an elder, a pastor, or a deacon, to make sure this is a primary thing in their ministry.
14:07: Yes, and in fact, even if there are men out there who are pastors who truly are loving,
14:17: I think that they have to make sure that they speak in such a manner and behave in such a manner where that is truly evident to the flock.
14:30: Because there are people, just because of their personality, just because of the way they speak and so on, people have a false impression of them, that they are aloof and uncaring and unloving.
14:46: And I've known some men, in fact, one man who will remain anonymous, that I have known for many years who has been extremely generous to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
15:04: He has, unfortunately, a reputation of being a stiff and aloof and cold person.
15:12: And I know that is not true, but it just happens to be the manner with which he speaks and his posturing and his facial expressions and on and on.
15:25: Don't you think that even though some of those things, those traits that a person has that conveys a false message about who they are, unintentionally, of course, don't you think that if they are aware of this or if somebody informs them, or maybe perhaps many people inform them about this, they have to work on that and have to overcome those things so that people are very clear that they really do care and love them?
15:55: Absolutely, Chris. That's totally right. If men of God, true, calm men of God, have those deficiencies, whether it's timidity, pride, not being, quote, a people person, etc.,
16:13: if we don't recognize and work on those deficiencies, then it will greatly affect our ministries for the worse.
16:25: We cannot be unfriendly or cold or aloof.
16:32: And I think this does get into the issue of both personality but also character, too, which
16:40: I'll talk a little bit more about that in the qualifications for ministry mentioned in 1
16:47: Timothy 3 and Titus 1. Well, why don't you just start in your discussion where you want to start in regard to this topic.
16:59: Good. You know, there's elders, pastors, perhaps even theological students out there listening.
17:10: So think about this scenario. It happens all the time. A young man enters the ministry out of seminary, excited, guns blazing, ready to be a stud in the ministry.
17:32: I don't know if I've ever heard that description before.
17:40: You get the picture, Rod. Yes, I do. So he's excited about getting his first church.
17:47: And, of course, he knows everything. And he's God's gift to any church, even his denomination.
17:56: He's bright. He's able to preach. He's perhaps got a winsome personality.
18:02: So he embarks in the ministry. And a year later, the congregation may be frustrated because the honeymoon's over.
18:15: And they feel like he's still a stranger. They can't relate to him. He preaches well, but he's not warm.
18:23: He doesn't spend time with them. He sees them at church. And now, after a year, he doesn't feel respected.
18:30: But he's not taking it very well. So a year later, he's gone.
18:36: That pastorate ended after two years. And he's brain shifting.
18:43: And the sheep may be hurt. Yeah, the church probably did wrong, too.
18:49: But what could have made the difference? In my opinion, any man going into a new church relationship, whether it's your first one or down the road after years of ministry, the first couple of years, the most important thing they can do is build a loving relationship with the people.
19:16: Because the people don't trust you yet. Trust has to be earned and developed through relationship, not just from the pulpit.
19:25: What could have made a difference in that two -year pastorate ending is if that young man would have majored on building warm relationships the first two years.
19:37: But so many ministers don't view that as critically as they should.
19:43: They see it as secondary after study, preaching well, administration, or whatever.
19:51: So the love was missing as the ingredient that makes the whole ministry function well and flow with relational quality.
20:07: So when we go to 1 Timothy 3 or Titus 1, you see
20:12: Paul stating those qualifications for ministry.
20:19: They're virtually the same things in both those chapters. But what's striking is there's only one qualification that speaks about preaching or teaching, and that is he must be able to teach.
20:38: He must be apt to teach. A preacher or a pastor has got to be able to preach and teach.
20:45: But it's the only qualification mentioned in all those qualifications about speaking or preaching or teaching.
20:57: Every other thing that's mentioned has to do with character.
21:04: It's quite revealing. And, of course, anyone who's read those qualifications knows that what
21:14: I'm saying is true. A bishop or a pastor or shepherd has got to be a blameless example, husband on wife, temperate, sober -minded, good behavior, hospitable.
21:28: There's friendliness and relational abilities. Able to teach, not addicted to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle.
21:43: That means gentle in how we treat people and how we relate to them, not quarrelsome, et cetera.
21:51: So all of those qualifications deal with character. A man's character is 90 % of what's going to determine his success in ministry, especially in pastoring.
22:07: Well, I knew there was a reason that I wasn't qualified to be a minister. Or should I say a number of reasons?
22:14: Well, I don't know if that's true, Chris, but this overlaps with the fruit of the
22:21: Spirit in Galatians 5, which is love, joy, peace, long -suffering, gentleness, meekness, faith, self -control.
22:31: So a man of true character and maturity, and of course no man should have hands laid on him suddenly as a novice.
22:42: Just because he's come out of seminary and can preach a great sermon doesn't mean he's ready to pastor.
22:49: There's got to be the maturity. He can't be a novice. That's why learning and growing under ministry, your gifts are developed within the church.
23:03: But those qualifications in 1 Timothy 3,
23:08: Titus 1, those fruits of the Spirit in Galatians 5 produce a godly person who's an example, who's full of faith in the
23:18: Holy Spirit, who is an encourager. He's humble, he's gentle, and he's developed a pastor's heart of love.
23:29: And that heart of love has to be in our motives, our attitude, our actions that must be shown and seen and felt by the sheep that's under our care.
23:47: Amen. One of the things that is disappointing to hear on occasion is that you may have a man who has all those qualities that I mentioned before that are enviable, brilliance.
24:11: They have great gifts of oratory gifts.
24:17: They have a power in their speaking behind the pulpit. They are just geniuses when it comes to exegesis.
24:30: And they have so many of these great qualities and gifts and talents.
24:37: And perhaps they've even written many books. Perhaps they're on radio and television.
24:44: But they have become celebrities, and they really are not shepherds to the flock over which they serve.
24:56: In fact, you could even rightly say, in some sense, under which they serve, because shepherds are also supposed to be servants, even though they are leaders and overseers.
25:09: They are supposed to be servants as well. But there are even men that I have met that have such an ambition to become celebrities that they start off with that attitude and behavior before anybody even knows who they are other than the people in their own congregation.
25:29: That's a really sad reality, isn't it?
25:36: Yes, it is. It's sad. It's aspiring to greatness when you're a novice,
25:44: I guess, when you're young. No one, starting out in the ministry, is going to preach as well as their heroes of the faith.
25:54: And so we should not imitate them. We should follow their godliness and their humility.
26:02: I well remember going to ministers' conferences really since the 1970s, periodically over the years, 70s, 80s.
26:14: And I remember there were times some of those celebrity preachers would be in those conferences, and I would have genuine questions
26:26: I wanted to ask. And I wasn't just wanting to try to get to know them or get close to them, but I had genuine questions.
26:36: And I would approach them, and they would say, I'm sorry, I don't have time.
26:43: But then I would see them sitting at the lunch table for an hour and a half with their buddies carrying on, and it hurt, but it became clear to me they really didn't care about helping a young preacher who was a stranger to them.
27:02: On the other hand, I've known well -known celebrity preachers that when
27:09: I approached them with a question or to express appreciation for their ministry, they were warm -hearted, they gave me their attention, they treated me as if I was important, they were friendly, they weren't rushed, and it meant the world to me.
27:28: Well, I could say without question that Paul Washer fits that description. Yes.
27:34: Paul, he's a lion in the pulpit, but he's a lamb one -on -one with people. He's loving and gentle, and he cares about them.
27:44: So when I had that experience of how not to be and then how to be,
27:50: I determined I made a choice. I'm going to work at anyone who wants to ask a question of me or wants counsel.
28:01: I am going to give them my undivided, loving, caring attention.
28:06: I'm an endeavorer to not be distracted and be available. If I can't talk to them,
28:12: I'll say, look, today won't work, but could we talk tomorrow? Because how would the
28:17: Lord Jesus Christ be toward his sheep? Well, if we're to be like him in ministry, we have to act like him in our conduct toward people.
28:28: I think of Epaphroditus in Philippians 2 .26.
28:34: Paul said this about Epaphroditus. Of course, the context is, well,
28:44: Paul says of Epaphroditus that he was longing for you all.
28:51: That is, the saints there in Philippi, he was longing for them all.
29:01: Well, that's a heart desire. That's a yearning from the heart. Epaphroditus had a pastor's heart toward people.
29:10: And it doesn't matter how much we know the Bible and how well we can teach it if we don't have a pastor's heart that longs with affection toward people.
29:21: But the verse I like almost better about this is in 2 Corinthians 8 .16,
29:28: where Paul says this, But thanks be to God who put the same earnest care for you into the heart of Titus.
29:40: Earnest care. Sincere, felt, emotional, loving care.
29:47: Earnest care. God put it into the heart of Titus for the Corinthians. And it's true, this isn't just naturally in us.
29:55: Oftentimes, I've had to admit to myself, you know,
30:00: I'm not really showing much love right now. I'm not being warm toward the flock. And I would continually have to go to the
30:09: Lord again and again and ask the Lord, Let your love fill my heart again because I don't have an endless reservoir.
30:18: You are the source to put love into my heart for the saints. God must work it in us if we don't have it.
30:25: Because if we don't have it, the earnest care like Titus had, people will know it, people will not feel our care, and we won't pastor well or for very long.
30:38: Because this is a non -negotiable thing in ministry. Well, we have to go to our first break right now.
30:48: If anybody wants to join us, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.
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31:34: So anyway, ChrisArnzen at gmail .com is the email address, and we look forward to receiving your questions.
31:40: And we will be back right after these messages with more of Mack Tomlinson and the loving pastoral care of faithful shepherds.
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42:19: No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot. Jeffrey Rice of Post Tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.
42:29: All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching.
42:34: Jeffrey uses the finest in buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like the turquoise goatskin tanned in Italy used for my
42:44: Nessie Olin 28th edition with a navy blue goatskin inside liner and the electric blue goatskin from a
42:50: French tannery used to rebind a Reformation study Bible I used as a gift. The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.
43:01: Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art.
43:12: For more details on Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding go to PTLBibleRebinding .com
43:19: That's PTLBibleRebinding .com And by the way, folks, speaking of James White of Alpha Omega Ministries I have the wonderful news that he is returning to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on Friday the 8th of May We will interrupt our
43:38: Friday coronavirus updates that we have every week with Pastor Joe Jakiewicz in order to fit
43:46: Dr. White's schedule and he will be on, as I said, Friday, May 8th, 4 -6pm on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and please make a note of that on your calendar
43:58: We don't have a topic picked yet with the way things are going in our day and age might be best to wait to see what comes up that might have a lot of current event relevance but just mark that down on your calendar, though Friday, May 8th,
44:14: Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries returns to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio We are now back with our discussion with Pastor Mac Tomlinson of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas We are discussing the loving pastoral care of faithful shepherds and our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com and if you could, pick up where you left off there,
44:40: Pastor Mac and make sure that we include attributes and qualities that are necessary for man to even be qualified for this office known as pastor or elder or overseer which
44:55: I believe are the same office Yes, that's right Well, as I was saying those qualifications in 1
45:03: Timothy 3 and Titus 1 all speak to mainly the character the godliness, the maturity the exemplary life and the character of a minister that's being put over the flock of God only one qualification speaks to the issue of preaching or teaching or the pulpit but when we talk about loving the saints and loving people we're talking about something that has to be in the heart we can't manufacture it or fake it and it's also it's easy to love everybody quote unquote it's harder to love the person in front of us there's an old poem that says to live above with the saints we love that will be glory, glory but to live below with the saints we know that's a different story
46:05: It's been a long time since I heard that but I have heard that, yes Well, what
46:10: I'm talking about is having a principle and heart filled with love the love of Christ by the
46:19: Holy Spirit where it controls how you relate to people and treat them one -on -one day in and day out when we meet and greet the brethren every
46:34: Lord's Day prayer meetings when we go into their homes for pastoral visits they need our heart's love right then and we must be engaged to make them the most important person we're going to talk to during the week and so Epaphroditus had that toward the
46:54: Philippians longing for you all Paul said Titus got put earnest care into his heart for the saints so the
47:03: Lord must work this in us but it means that in the moment if I'm meeting with someone if someone comes for pastoral visit for counsel or they call or they want to stop me at church
47:19: I don't know what their motive is I may know them well it might be a stranger but in that moment those sheep need my genuine undivided loving attention and the sad thing is
47:34: I know in my own experience I've often not been that way my wife
47:39: Linda at times would tell me later dear you you weren't really giving him your attention you you interrupted and cut him off in what he was saying you seemed distracted and I had to admit finally that that's right pastors aren't often this way and we're not perfect we can we can be too self -important we can be a respecter of persons we can be too busy be too busy and preoccupied but we have to learn this can be cultivated if we see that it's bodily important and before the
48:20: Lord we can continually pray for Him to work it in us because it's the single most important heart issue that a pastor has to have and that is long -term love of the flock
48:33: I'm reminded of John Popper's book Brothers We Are Not Professionals any church leaders that have not read that book should read it because we're not professionals we're not quote professional clergy we're not men of the cloth we're not reverend the
48:53: Bible says holy and reverend is His name not ours but what we are is we're pastors we're shepherds we're bishops we're overseers of the flock and the
49:09: Bible tells us we're to take heed to all the flock every one of them Old Testament says know well the state of your flock and so this means love it's striking after Peter's dismal failure of his denial of the
49:28: Lord his triple denial you know he would have been he went off and wept bitterly you know
49:35: Peter's confidence was shaken and the self -confidence had to be shaken but you know his heart was probably withdrawn and wounded and embarrassed what did his fellow apostles think of him could he ever be back in the group and remember after the resurrection in John 21 15 through 17
49:57: Christ's restoration of him to the group was a loving relational question three times
50:06: Peter do you love me that's all the Lord said and he didn't rebuke him he didn't drag up the past he said three times do you love me do you flail me do you flail me do you agape me and each time he said feed my sheep feed my lambs so the loving of Christ by us as men of God has to trickle down and permeate the love of the lambs and the sheep you know you were just moments ago talking about how in fact you quoted the title of John Piper's book
50:52: Brothers We Are Not Professionals and it reminded me of the stark contrast
51:00: I have witnessed between and I have to be careful here many
51:11: Roman Catholic priests because I'm sure that there are also many
51:17: Roman Catholic priests who are very personable and loving and compassionate and so on and this is probably true especially with many mainline denominations even within Protestantism but when you are at a funeral or at a wake or the viewing part of that ceremony when somebody passes on I have witnessed quite a number of times and I think it actually helps those present see the stark contrast of the true evangelical pastor that is present if he is and hopefully he is when somebody dies and then in contrast with the the cleric, the professional
52:16: I have been at wakes where you might have somebody in your congregation who has a spouse or a parent or a relative that is from a different religion and they ask their own pastor as well to be a part of the wake or the funeral service and you will have a priest for instance a
52:49: Roman Catholic priest come into the room and I have witnessed this on a number of occasions doesn't even make eye contact with anybody or greet anybody kneels in front of a casket and starts praying a repetitive prayer the kind of prayer that the
53:13: Bible prohibits is vain repetition of the pagans and then the person stands up and says good day everybody and leaves it was as if they were just doing their job they were punching the clock at this particular event that they were required to attend and then the pastor the true pastor gets up and his heart just overflows with love and compassion for the people present and he typically will know the names of the people involved very often
53:55: I've been at not only funerals and wakes but I've been at weddings where the priests forget the names of the people getting married because it's just their job they're just going through the motions am
54:07: I being accurate here as far as your experience well yes
54:13: I mean I've mainly been around protestant ministers but I have noticed that and it's just a lesson to me to not be that way you know many ministers are probably unregenerate obviously they don't truly know the
54:30: Lord so they don't have a new heart they don't have a loving heart they're a professional it's their job and so only regenerate pastors who have the
54:42: Holy Spirit who have the love of Christ in them can be loving shepherds unfortunately we have to get our midway break already
54:48: Pastor Mac and it's the longer the normal break folks so please be patient with us we have to pay the bills around here and remain on the air and the only way we can do that is through the financial support of our advertisers and the reason why this break is longer than other breaks is because Grace Life Radio 90 .1
55:10: FM in Lake City Florida who airs this program twice daily they need to air their own public service announcements according to FCC regulations in the show to localize
55:22: Iron Shepherds Iron Radio to Lake City Florida and while they do that we are airing our globally heard commercials so please try to write down as much of the information provided by our advertisers as possible so that you can more successfully and more frequently patronize them which will mean they will more than likely remain our advertisers which will more than likely mean we will remain on the air because of their financial support but also write down questions for Mac Tomlinson on the loving pastoral care of faithful shepherds and send your emails to chrisarnson at gmail .com
55:58: chrisarnson at gmail .com don't go away God willing we are going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors
56:11: James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach preach and debate at numerous venues some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church now located at their new beautiful facilities in Coram Long Island New York I've had the privilege of opening
56:34: God's word from their pulpit on many occasions have led youth retreats for them and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my
56:41: New York debates I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled and edified by the holy scriptures and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ I also want to congratulate
56:58: Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder Pastor Christopher McDowell for more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church go to hopereformedli .net
57:10: that's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711 that's 631 -696 -5711 that's 631 -696 -5711 tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music Music in the beautiful state of Tennessee.
59:05: Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.
59:14: Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our
59:26: Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.
59:33: If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
59:46: Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
59:56: Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.
01:00:04: This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign
01:00:10: Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.
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01:02:18: Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.
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01:05:15: As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.
01:05:21: A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.
01:05:31: Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world.
01:05:39: They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship
01:05:45: God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a
01:05:50: God -centered focus. Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.
01:06:05: Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace
01:06:13: .com. That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com.
01:06:21: Or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.
01:06:30: Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.
01:06:49: If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.
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01:11:57: Before we return to our guest today, Pastor Mac Tomlinson.
01:12:04: Pastor Mac, as I've been mentioning, is pastor of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas. And if you just tuned us in, we are discussing the loving pastoral care of faithful shepherds.
01:12:17: Before we return to that discussion, I just have some announcements to make.
01:12:23: First of all, tomorrow on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, we have joining us as a guest for the very first time,
01:12:31: Michael Hammer, a Jewish believer who is going to be addressing his personal testimony of salvation and how he came to embrace the doctrines of sovereign grace, also known as Reform Theology and Calvinism, which is sadly very rare among Jewish believers in our day and age.
01:12:55: So it should be a fascinating interview. Friday, Joe Jackiewicz returns to our program for his weekly update on the coronavirus.
01:13:05: And please, as I said before, mark your calendars for Friday, May 8th, for the return of Dr.
01:13:12: James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries to this program. We're gonna be interrupting our weekly coronavirus update on that day so that Dr.
01:13:22: White can join us and we have to fit his schedule. So we are excited about his return and look forward to hearing from you and your questions for Dr.
01:13:32: White. That's Friday, May 8th, four to six p .m. here on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.
01:13:38: And folks, again, I have to do something that I dislike doing, especially since there's so many charlatans out there raising money and typically using trickery and lies and promises of health, wealth, and prosperity when they are doing so.
01:14:05: And I hope that you could tell the difference between those liars and me and the
01:14:11: Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio program. But we need your help financially. We are in urgent need of your help because two of our largest advertisers have abandoned ship temporarily because the coronavirus hysteria has seriously negatively affected their businesses.
01:14:34: So it is their intention to return to us in financial support at some point when they bounce back from what has occurred.
01:14:47: But in the meantime, can you please help us replenish that which was lost? Please go to ironsharpensironradio .com,
01:14:55: click Support, then click Click to Donate Now and you can donate instantly with a debit or a credit card by doing so.
01:15:04: If you'd like to advertise with us as long as whatever it is you are advertising is compatible with what we believe, we would love for you to join us as an advertiser.
01:15:20: And you don't have to believe identically with me, but you do need to be promoting something that's at least compatible with what we believe here on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio in order to advertise.
01:15:34: And just send me an email to chrisarnsinit, gmail .com, chrisarnsinit, gmail .com
01:15:42: and put advertising in the subject line. Also folks, if you are not a member of a local
01:15:50: Bible -believing church and you're not even prayerfully looking for one, please try to rectify that situation as quickly as possible and if you need help,
01:16:01: I can help you, God willing, find a church near you that is biblically faithful.
01:16:08: I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world and I have helped many people all over the planet find churches near them that they have joined or sometimes they have visited them on vacation and also sometimes they have recommended them to family, friends, and loved ones in different parts of the world that don't have a church that they're aware of that is biblically faithful near them.
01:16:39: So if you or a loved one of yours is having a difficult time finding a church, please send me an email to chrisarnsinit, gmail .com,
01:16:49: chrisarnsinit, gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line. That is also the email address where you can send in a question to Pastor Mac Tomlinson, that's chrisarnsinit, gmail .com,
01:17:04: chrisarnsinit, gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the
01:17:11: USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
01:17:20: Pastor Mac, what are some more ways in which a truly faithful shepherd demonstrates love towards those who are under his care?
01:17:32: Well, that's the perfect question that I wanted actually to kind of get to and think about the practicals.
01:17:41: Our church, we have a plurality of elders, so I'm not always the one preaching on the
01:17:47: Lord's Day. So on those Lord's Days when I don't have pulpit responsibility, one of the things that I do before going to church,
01:17:58: I'll kind of preach to myself, I'll exhort myself, and I'll say, I'm going to intentionally go around to different members of the flock one -on -one.
01:18:12: I hadn't talked to in a while, I hadn't had conversations with. I'm gonna greet them. I'm gonna say, hey, miss you guys.
01:18:21: How are you doing? And love you. So glad the Lord has us in the same local church.
01:18:30: I'm intentional about making a one -on -one loving connection, and that's so easy to do, and it doesn't take much time.
01:18:39: But I've had to overcome timidity. But as pastors, we simply cannot be distant from individuals.
01:18:50: We can't be timid. God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind.
01:18:57: We can't be withdrawn. We can't be disengaged socially.
01:19:07: So I remember Tozer's famous words. He said somewhere,
01:19:13: A .W. Tozer, he said, quote, I'm gonna love people even if it kills me. Well, sometimes it really gets us out of our comfort zone to one -on -one intentionally be loving verbally and with friendliness.
01:19:32: So here's, I would just say to pastors and church leaders out there that know in their heart,
01:19:40: I wanna love God's people. I often don't. I don't seem to have the personality for it.
01:19:46: I don't have the confidence for it. How can they begin to build that bridge? One thing, when there's relational problems arise one -on -one or misunderstandings, we have to not puff up in pride and get defensive.
01:20:03: We have to not think the worst. Love believes all things.
01:20:10: Love hopes for the best. And so when problems arise relationally, oh, we have to mortify our pride.
01:20:18: We can't withdraw. We can't become argumentative. We have to choose to act like a
01:20:24: Christian. We have to be respectful. We have to lovingly communicate even if there's disagreement.
01:20:31: And instead of having a fight, we need to build a bridge relationally by being friendly and genuine and acting respectful and loving.
01:20:43: So, because it's true that elders are responsible for the spiritual health of every saint under their pastoral care.
01:21:00: Take heed to all of the flock. Paul said in Acts chapter 20.
01:21:07: And so we're responsible for the spiritual condition of the sheep. And so one thing we began to do years ago, and I would encourage pastors or elders out there to think about this and even contact me if they wanted to discuss it.
01:21:24: Years ago, our eldership began monthly pastoral visits with everyone in the church.
01:21:32: And we're not a huge church. We now have about 200 members, but that's quite a number of families.
01:21:40: And we began to make pastoral visits monthly with every family or every single person that's a member.
01:21:48: Of course, not elders with single women. If there was a single woman, it would be two elders together or an elder and his wife.
01:22:00: But how would we do that? We do this for this motive. We have to be relationally connected with the sheep.
01:22:08: And that doesn't happen from the pulpit on Sundays. It doesn't happen from the pulpit on Wednesdays.
01:22:15: It only happens one -on -one. And if we're not being with the people systematically, we will not have any real warm relationship with them.
01:22:26: We see them on Sundays at church and they have their best foot forward.
01:22:33: They have a smile. They conduct themselves as positively as they can.
01:22:39: But we don't know that that very day they may be backslidden. They may be hurting. They may be alienated.
01:22:45: They may have marriage problems. So we took seriously the admonition of scripture to know well the state of the flock.
01:22:55: So we set up pastoral visits monthly and we divide the flock among the elders in groups.
01:23:05: And then individually as the elder will, I'll call my group one given month and I'll set up visits.
01:23:12: I'll tell them, hey, wanna come by and see you and see how you're doing? Can we do it in your home? Would you come over to my home?
01:23:19: Can we meet for dinner? And we meet and it's just something like this. We're glad we're getting together.
01:23:26: Hadn't seen you in a while. It's very one -on -one. Really wanting to know how you're doing and what's going on.
01:23:33: And if they trust you, they're gonna like small talk and then with wise questions, you can get into things like, well, how's your walk with Christ?
01:23:45: Are you struggling? Have you been encouraged? You ask that question and then they start talking.
01:23:51: Then you have another question. And if you really have a relationship with them, you can ask more pointed questions like, how are your children doing spiritually?
01:24:04: Or is your marriage doing well? Are you encouraging your marriage? There's like 60 different pastoral questions we would use month after month with different families.
01:24:18: And this has been the single most important thing we've done as elders. Wow, just to butt in very quickly,
01:24:26: I don't want you to lose your train of thought. But don't you think it's extremely, vitally important that these questions be asked in an appropriate manner and tone of voice because it could sound like you're interrogating people.
01:24:48: Exactly, exactly. That's totally right, Chris. And it would be like, let's say if I was sitting down with you as a member of our church over dinner,
01:24:57: I wouldn't have the tone of, okay, how are you doing spiritually? I gotta know.
01:25:04: How's that marriage going? Yeah, yeah. No, it would be relational. It'd be,
01:25:09: Chris, are you encouraging the Lord these days? Have you been encouraging your walk with Christ?
01:25:17: That's a relational good question. It's loving. It's very important not only what the question is, but that it's worded well, and it's the tone and heart in which you say it is very intentionally a quality as well.
01:25:34: You're right, it's of the utmost importance that we say those things right.
01:25:40: By the way, I just have to announce again to our listeners, there are some of you who have been sending in questions without giving your city, state, and country of residence.
01:25:51: If you could look at your email that you sent and make sure that you included your city and state of residence and country if you live outside the
01:26:00: USA, and if you haven't given us that information, please resend the email with that information.
01:26:08: We like to get an idea of where our listeners are listening and where they're writing from, so please don't forget.
01:26:17: People wonder why I keep repeating that over and over and over again, and that's because nearly every day, people don't do it.
01:26:25: But anyway, I'm sorry, I interrupted you, and if you could continue your train of thought.
01:26:31: Yeah, well, there is an art to this, and you do it over the long term of relationally being with the couples, the single people in the church who are members, to care for them.
01:26:48: In those visits, you're relational, you're friendly, you're warm, you're showing interest about their life, their work.
01:26:58: How's your job going? How can I pray for you in your job? And we have found that this has been equally important in pastoring the flock right along with studying the
01:27:14: Word of God, because nothing connects pastors more to the people than having time with them.
01:27:22: Nothing builds a relationship with them more, nothing makes them feel loved as much, and nothing makes them feel important to us as pastors, because they should feel loved by us, and they should feel and believe that they're important to us.
01:27:42: So those pastoral visits are the single most important thing we do in shepherding.
01:27:48: So a young pastor might say, or any pastor, you know, I've never done that, it would be awkward,
01:27:55: I wouldn't know how to do that. It takes courage, it takes one who says, you know, the
01:28:02: Bible tells me to take oversight of the flock and to know well the state of my flock.
01:28:12: So it's command of Christ, the great shepherd, to me as an undershepherd, I can learn to do that.
01:28:18: And there's an approach in a way that makes it work well. The people in our church now, after 20 years of this, they love it.
01:28:29: In fact, sometimes they'll come to one of the pastors and say, you know, I haven't had a call for a pastoral visit lately, did y 'all forget me?
01:28:39: And so it's a marvelous means of loving each individual church member.
01:28:51: And the end result is they feel loved and cared for by the man next
01:28:57: Sunday who's preaching to them. It's having a pastor's heart one -on -one for each one.
01:29:06: Great, we have a listener in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Mark.
01:29:13: Mark says, hey, Chris, great program, brother. Thanks for your ministry. I've known Mack and Linda Tomlinson for many years.
01:29:20: He's a very special brother, friend, and co -laborer in the ministry. My question for Mack is, when is it no longer loving for a pastor to expect his flock to do something that they may not have the same conviction about doing?
01:29:39: A pastor's conduct should be seen and his faith imitated as Hebrews chapter three, verse seven states, but sometimes it can go too far, or can it?
01:29:51: In particular, I'm thinking about pastors that defy the governing authorities about gathering together with this virus and then expect their congregation to follow him in that disobedience as proof of their allegiance to Christ.
01:30:07: When does the pastor's faith become presumption to be avoided, and when does it become true conduct to be an example to the flock?
01:30:20: Well, that's a marvelous question from Mark. My answer simply would be, there are pastors still today that are defying the public order from the government because of,
01:30:39: I think, false religious convictions. Usually this, I've seen this consistently on a one -on -one basis, and in these churches, usually
01:30:53: Pentecostal -type churches, because it stems from a false view of presumption that they call faith, or we're covered in the blood, nothing can touch us, that kind of silly language.
01:31:08: And so they, instead of obeying the government, according to Romans 13, which is acting for the welfare of our society, they're ministers of God for our good, they're there for the punishment of evildoers, and they're there for the good of citizens who obey the government and respect authority.
01:31:30: I mean, you know I don't mean obeying the government to the disobedience of God's law.
01:31:37: We're not talking about that here. But I think this is a very bad example. It's arrogant, and I heard of one pastor in a large church, many others may have heard this, who defied, and he recently died from the virus.
01:31:54: So I think it's unexemplary. It's an example to the flock of arrogance, of rebellion, and it exposes them.
01:32:07: Quite frankly, they could expose their flock to be a carrier and a giver of the virus, and they've done damage to the flock.
01:32:17: They haven't loved the flock. So Mark's question is very good. Now obviously, however, there are people in places of political power who hate
01:32:31: Christianity and would love nothing more than to see a permanent ceasing of public gathering and corporate worship.
01:32:42: And obviously, if this were to perpetually go on and on and on, many fine men, such as yourself, realizing that they are not breaking a law by gathering because of our constitutional guarantees of freedom of assembly and freedom of religion, there would be a point, don't you agree, that being disobedient to unjust restrictions that are not even laws would be acceptable without being viewed as being rebellious?
01:33:22: I mean, am I making myself clear here about that? You are, and that's well stated,
01:33:28: Chris. I think that's the balancing truth. And at that point, the government's becoming purely political when the reasonable, true danger is gone.
01:33:42: I mean, our elders shared with each other today that they're in Texas, and I think in our county, they're trying to tell churches who start meeting in exactly how many feet they have to have between each person in the building.
01:33:59: Well, you know, I think people have common sense. They're already exercising and being precautionary.
01:34:10: So people, believers aren't stupid, for the most part. Church leaders know how to lead.
01:34:16: Well, you speak for your own church. I'm only kidding. So I hear you make a valid point that it can go too far, and when it suppresses the gospel, or proper freedom of worship, when there is no clear and present danger, so to speak, then you're right.
01:34:40: I would agree with what you said. And by the way,
01:34:46: Mark in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, to my knowledge, you are a first -time questioner.
01:34:53: If you could please give me your full mailing address, because you have won a free New American Standard Bible by virtue of the fact that you are a first -time questioner, unless I'm wrong on that.
01:35:05: So please give me your full mailing address, and God willing, that will arrive within a week or so. Compliments of the publishers of the
01:35:12: NASB, and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,
01:35:19: who will be shipping that out to you at no charge to you or to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. B .B.
01:35:24: in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania asks, or says, one thing that really disappoints me, hurts me, and bothers me, is to witness cliquishness in the church, where people only get together socially with their select group of close friends, and avoid others, it seems, at all costs.
01:35:51: This is even compounded and much worse when pastors behave that way. Now, I do realize that there will be favorites among the congregation that every pastor will have, and that there is nothing wrong with that.
01:36:05: Even the disciple John is called the one that Jesus loved.
01:36:11: But at the same time, shouldn't pastors be even more careful than your average congregation member not to participate in cliquishness?
01:36:22: I couldn't agree more, they've gotta be exemplary. That would be being a respecter of persons, as James condemns in his epistle.
01:36:32: We may feel closer to some people, just like some Christians within a congregation, maybe have a closer connection, a friendship.
01:36:42: God puts them close together like David and Jonathan in the Old Testament. We feel a connection with some, a kindred spirit with some, but we should not show favoritism, and we should not outwardly, certainly, show respect to persons where we're only friendly to a few, we're only loving to a few select people.
01:37:09: Whether church leaders or church members, the weaker brethren, the new believers, the more timid, they don't know how to socially engage as well with their brethren.
01:37:30: And those who are more spiritual, and the Bible does use that term, my memory fails me,
01:37:37: I think it was James, or maybe it's Peter, there are those within the church that are more spiritual, more mature, and they have to show loving attention and care for those who aren't as much.
01:37:55: So I totally agree with that question. It is sad, it's unfortunate, and no
01:38:01: Christian should behave that way, and certainly no pastors, because we are called to a higher standard.
01:38:09: We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who asks the question, during a time like the coronavirus pandemic, where many people have lost their jobs, at least temporarily, some permanently even lost the businesses they've owned, don't you think that elders in love, when they are having conversations with members of the flock, either face -to -face or by phone, ask them if they are in financial need, or in any other kinds of needs, because some people are too embarrassed to ask for such help voluntarily?
01:38:54: Yes, I do think it's a valid, important question. It becomes delicate, but within our church, within the membership, as pastors and elders know their flock, they know the people's work, history, they know they're faithful members, then we should care as much as it is possible to find out.
01:39:25: You're right, people are too embarrassed, they're too timid, they feel like they'll be taken wrong, but they may have legitimate needs.
01:39:33: We have people in our church that have lost their work. I think, thankfully, they'll all be back at work, but, and they're on legitimate needs, and so the shepherds of the sheep must care for the flock in that regard to see how they're doing, to inquire if there's any true need, and we have seen the
01:39:58: Lord through the church and through members caring for one another, those who have give to those who have not.
01:40:07: Those who haven't lost their jobs or income, they're sensitive and loving to meet what needs they can find out about, so this is a right thing as well.
01:40:19: And we have to go to our final break. It's gonna be a lot more brief than the last one and the one before, so please send in your question immediately if you intend to write one.
01:40:30: ChrisArnson at gmail .com. ChrisArnson at gmail .com. We'll be right back with Mack Tomlinson after these messages from our sponsors.
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01:45:08: The coronavirus pandemic has rapidly changed our way of life, bringing so many uncertainties.
01:45:15: When will it end? Why do disasters like this happen? How do we deal with anxiety, fear, and the like?
01:45:22: Well, join us each Friday on the program Iron Sharpens Iron with your host, Chris Arnson, and Pastor Joe Jacobs as they explore
01:45:31: God's word for answers to this and other of life's related issues. Tune in at firstloveradio .org,
01:45:39: that's firstloveradio .org, each Friday at 1 p .m.
01:45:45: Pacific, 4 p .m. Eastern. That's Iron Sharpens Iron on firstloveradio .org,
01:45:51: Friday's 1 p .m. Pacific, 4 p .m. Eastern, to hear what the Bible has to say about pandemics and how we should respond.
01:46:00: Welcome back. This is Chris Arnson, and if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the entire program has been and will continue to be for approximately 15 more minutes,
01:46:12: Mack Tomlinson, pastor of Providence Chapel, Denton, Texas. We are discussing the loving pastoral care of faithful shepherds.
01:46:20: And we have some comments by or from Mary in Cork, Ireland, and she says, listening to the first part of your show,
01:46:34: Chris, you mentioned how some leaders and pastors want to be celebrities. I thought of the following scriptures.
01:46:41: Part of Jeremiah's message to Baruch from the Lord was, do you seek great things for yourself?
01:46:49: Seek them not. That's Jeremiah chapter 45, verse four. In Mark chapter 10, verses 35 through 45, also
01:46:59: James and John, the sons of Zebedee, were self -seeking and looking for positions in glory without even comprehending what they were asking
01:47:09: Jesus to do for them. Let one of us sit at your right and the other on your left in your glory.
01:47:16: Jesus addressed this question and answered it, but went on to address man's ambition.
01:47:23: You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them and their high officials exercise authority over them.
01:47:32: Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant.
01:47:39: And whomever wants to be first must be slave of all. For even the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many.
01:47:51: Jesus had a servant's heart and that's what his ministers are to have too. Very excellent points.
01:47:58: Amen. And thank you, Mary from Cork, Ireland. Well, I want you to continue on with some of your information that you want to make sure that our listeners have before we run out of time, before I take any other listener questions.
01:48:14: Yeah, you know, Chris, I think for pastors and elders, deacons need to be this way as well because they serve the people at the pleasure of the elders and they serve
01:48:27: Christ by serving his sheep. But this is so practical.
01:48:34: I mean, think about this. Pastors who want to love the people more and build relationships, he and his wife can start thinking about things like this.
01:48:43: Why don't we have a different church family over once a month for Sunday lunch or Tuesday night dinner and do it twice a month systematically and you work through the whole clog.
01:48:59: It doesn't matter how long it takes. You're building relationships. Or Sunday night after church, have somebody over for popcorn and true fellowship and enjoy something together at the end of a
01:49:15: Lord's day. The critical thing that pastors, we must ask ourselves is this question.
01:49:21: Do our brethren, do the sheep that are under our care truly know that we love them and do they feel it?
01:49:30: We must, when we're with them, we must give them our undivided attention.
01:49:36: We must reflect that we're really interested in them by caring and listening and not answering quick by caring and understanding.
01:49:46: Don't be in a rush. We can't be distracted. And they will know that they have our heart because they have our attention.
01:49:57: Think about the legendary John Bunyan. We know his fame.
01:50:04: We know why. We know Pilgrim's Progress. We know about his 13 years in the
01:50:10: Bedford jail because he wouldn't stop preaching. We know those outward public heroic things.
01:50:20: But many Christians don't know about Mr. Bunyan, how he died and the reason why.
01:50:28: In the summer of 1698, he was 60 years old. He was three now.
01:50:36: And by this time he had written 60 books, which is astounding.
01:50:41: They're all found in the three volume works of John Bunyan published by Banner of Truth. I think there's even another publisher that has them published.
01:50:50: But Bunyan gets asked by someone, I don't know if it was a letter from London that came to him to Bedford or someone in Bedford, but he gets asked, would you be willing to help a father and his son whose relationship is broken?
01:51:10: They're not on speaking terms. Would you be willing to try to help them reconcile? I suppose one of the men or both of them knew
01:51:21: Bunyan. Bunyan had the nickname in Bedford, Bishop Bunyan.
01:51:28: It wasn't just a religious title people gave him. He was viewed as a bishop of their souls.
01:51:38: People knew that Bunyan cared about them. He was humble. He was approachable.
01:51:44: So Bunyan was asked, would you go to London and help these two men, father and son reconcile?
01:51:55: And he said, yes, I will. So he rides to London and I don't know that it's ever known if the two reconcile, perhaps that he is in the record.
01:52:09: But what did happen was Bunyan was in a torrential rainstorm because he was riding his horse a day's journey from Bedford, northeast of London, northwest of London.
01:52:22: And he got caught in this bad rainstorm. He got pneumonia and very quickly he declined and he died of the pneumonia in London suddenly.
01:52:35: And he was buried there. I think perhaps the law at the time was the body had to be buried quickly.
01:52:45: And so the strange part of the story is Bunyan's wife got a letter days later that he had died and he was buried.
01:52:55: Wow. His body, yeah, his body is there in Bunyal Hill Cemetery in London.
01:53:02: But let's just think about this. Bunyan died because he loved two people.
01:53:10: He cared about him enough to ride his horse two days round trip. The second day, he didn't come back.
01:53:19: He died because he had a shepherd's heart for two men, a father and a son.
01:53:26: And you know, we have to love people right where they are. Preaching is much easier than long -term loving pastoral care.
01:53:37: And pastors end often sadly because this is lacking even in true men of God.
01:53:47: But the greater example than Bunyan is our Savior himself. John 13 starts out where John the
01:53:55: Apostle says, knowing that his hour had come that he should depart to the
01:54:00: Father, having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.
01:54:09: And brother pastors and church leaders, God has put us where we are.
01:54:16: In the row of the vineyard he wants us in, laboring perhaps in an unknown small place, no recognition, no notoriety.
01:54:27: But that's the way most of the Puritan pastors were. They were pastoring small congregations in small villages and they loved the sheep like Christ did.
01:54:41: And we must love as he did. Remember the 11th commandment. If you will, in John, Jesus in the upper room discourse said, a new commandment
01:54:53: I give you that you should love one another as I have loved you.
01:55:01: So if Christ loves his sheep that much, even to lay his life down for them, can we as under shepherds not love his sheep and be diligent in their spiritual care?
01:55:17: We must begin by cultivating a loving heart and attitude.
01:55:23: And I think the final brief thing I would say is, if we as pastors or deacons, no,
01:55:29: I don't have a loving heart toward my church. I'm frustrated at some of the members. I'm irritated by some of them.
01:55:36: They're carnal, they act carnally. And I'm kind of fed up and I don't feel loving, but here
01:55:43: I am in the office and I've got to keep going. And I'm kind of miserable. A person who's going through that should stop, get a sabbatical himself for a day, a weekend, get away for private time and seek the
01:56:00: Lord and ask Christ afresh to do what
01:56:06: God did for Titus, to put into your heart an earnest care for God's people.
01:56:14: And that's the greatest thing we can have. Faith, hope and love, but the greatest of these is love.
01:56:24: We have an anonymous listener who asks, don't you think that men who do not have the kind of personality that demonstrates concern and compassion for those around him should not even enter into the vocation of pastoral ministry?
01:56:42: They can use their gifts elsewhere, like become a seminary professor or use their gifts as an author or in some other way, but not the pastor.
01:56:55: Yes, well, you know, that may be true, but some men are called to be pastors and shepherds who are more reserved.
01:57:04: And if they're called to be shepherds, they have to rise above that. They can't use their personality as an excuse.
01:57:13: They can cultivate and learn how to love people. And there's a difference between reserved and aloof.
01:57:20: Yes. And we do have another anonymous listener who says, don't you think one way that's very important where pastors demonstrate their love for their flock is knowing what their talents and abilities are and encouraging them to use those gifts in the church?
01:57:40: Absolutely, that's true, that's absolutely right. Well, we are out of time, and I wanna make sure that our listeners have all the information they need to contact
01:57:52: Pastor Mack Tomlinson of Providence Chapel, Denton, Texas. First of all, the website for that church is providencedenton .org,
01:58:03: providencedenton, that's D -E -N -T -O -N .org. And also, please don't forget about the
01:58:10: Fellowship Conference New England that will be held, God willing, August 6th through the 8th, 2020 at the
01:58:17: Deering Center Community Church in Portland, Maine. And as I said before, I do intend to go there myself,
01:58:24: God willing, and I hope to see as many of you there as possible. And to register, the website is fellowshipconferencenewengland .com
01:58:37: fellowshipconferencenewengland .com. And don't forget, folks, to continue to pray for my oldest brother,
01:58:43: John, who was supposed to be discharged from the hospital today.
01:58:49: He has a critical stage emphysema, and Pastor Mack Tomlinson has been reaching out to him personally since he lives very close to my brother.
01:58:59: Pray that a friendship develops between the two of them. I wanna thank everybody who listened today, especially
01:59:06: I wanna thank those who took the time to write in questions, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater