April 11, 2018 Show with Dr. Conrad Mbewe on “Foundations for the Flock: Truths About the Church For All the Saints” AND “Pastoral Preaching: Building A People For God”

Iron Sharpens Iron

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:01

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister

00:06

George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

00:16

Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

00:23

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

00:32

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

00:46

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

00:57

Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

01:05

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

01:14

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday. On this 11th day of April 2018,

01:22

I'm so delighted to have an old friend of mine back on the program, somebody who I love interviewing.

01:28

I've known him since 1995 during, I believe, his first trip from Africa to the

01:33

United States when he preached at Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York, which was the church where I was saved, formerly known as Calvary Baptist Church and where I remained until relocating to Pennsylvania.

01:48

His name is Dr. Conrad Mbewe, author, conference speaker, principal of Lusaka Ministerial College, chancellor of the

01:55

African Christian University, head of the African Renaissance University Project of the

02:01

African Alliance of YMCAs, board member of Central Africa Baptist Church, I'm sorry,

02:07

Central Africa Baptist College and Covenant College in Zambia, pastor of Kabwata Baptist Church in Zambia, Africa, and he is also author of two books we are going to be addressing today.

02:20

During the first hour, we are going to continue our conversation that we began the last time

02:25

Conrad was on the program, Foundations for the Flock, Truths About the Church for All the

02:30

Saints, and then during the second hour, we will address his newest book, his latest book, Pastoral Preaching, Building a

02:37

People for God, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Radio, Dr.

02:43

Conrad Mbewe. Thank you. Thank you very much, Chris. I'm glad to be back on your program, and thank you for having me back.

02:51

Oh, it's always a joy to have you on the program. It's always a joy to hear and see you preach, especially when

02:59

I have the opportunity to actually be in the audience right there on location, wherever you might be preaching, and that's also a reason for my excitement today because I know that,

03:12

God willing, I am very shortly going to be in the audience the next time

03:18

Conrad will be preaching at a conference here in the United States. He is going to be at the

03:24

Proclamation Presbyterian Church in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania, not far from where I'm sitting, for the next

03:32

Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology. It's not being held in Philadelphia anymore.

03:38

It used to be for many years held at the Tenth Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, where the late

03:44

Dr. James Montgomery Boyce was the pastor, so they affectionately still call the conference series the

03:49

Philadelphia Conference, but it is now in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania, and also

03:55

Byron Center, Michigan. But the theme of the conference that's coming up is the spirit of the age, and the age of the spirit.

04:03

We'll tell you some more later about some of the other speakers on the roster, but Conrad, do you know the specific topic under that umbrella, the spirit of the age, the age of the spirit, that you will be addressing at the next

04:17

Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology coming up April 27th through the 29th?

04:24

Yes, yes, I will definitely be particularly just addressing the work of the spirit with respect to, especially the

04:35

Book of Acts, as you will appreciate. The Old Testament was one in which the spirit was given, but to some measure, and then in the

04:47

New Testament era, it has been given in profusion, and consequently, all of us who are

04:54

God's children have the spirit of God in us. He is leading us and producing his fruit in all of us, so I'll really be dealing with the implications of all that at an individual level.

05:09

Great, and if anybody would like to register for the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology, you can go to AllianceNet .org,

05:18

AllianceNet .org, click on Events, and then click on Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology, the spirit of the age, the age of the spirit.

05:27

The dates are April 13th through the 15th in Byron Center, Michigan at the

05:33

First Christian Reform Church, and then the one closer to me, where I am planning to attend,

05:39

April 27th through the 29th at the Proclamation Presbyterian Church in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you're only speaking at the

05:47

Philadelphia Conference, or should I say the Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania Conference, am I right? I'm speaking at both.

05:53

Oh, you are speaking at both. Grand Rapids as well as in Philadelphia.

06:00

Oh, great. Well, that's good news for our listeners that are in the Byron Center, Michigan area, who will be attending the

06:07

First Christian Reform Church for that conference. So I am standing corrected there.

06:13

April 13th through the 15th in Byron Center, Michigan, and April 27th through the 29th in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania.

06:20

And we'll be repeating that information later on in the program. Well, we already had you on the program once before to address foundations for the flock, truths about the church for all the saints, but our audience has grown quite a bit since then.

06:39

According to my webmaster, the Iron Trip and Zion Radio audience has more than doubled since last year.

06:47

So there will be, no doubt, a lot of people discovering you for the first time today.

06:53

So why don't you tell our listeners why you came to write the book

06:59

Foundations for the Flock? Yes, well, the background is that when

07:06

I became pastor of Kabwatha Baptist Church, that's 30 years ago now, in 1987, it became clear to me that there were a number of foundational truths that the church needed to know in order to stabilize, in order to have a sense of direction.

07:29

And just preaching through the scriptures, passage by passage, yes, it could do that, but most likely before long,

07:40

I probably would be kicked out of my pastorate because of the changes I was hoping to make.

07:49

So I deliberately then began to deal with issues of, for instance, the role of elders, the role of deacons, the role of members with respect to the government of the church, issues of the

08:04

Lord's Supper, baptism, the role of women in the church, church discipline, and so on.

08:12

And I used to do that on the last Saturday of every November. So I've been doing that now for about 30 years.

08:21

So what basically happened was that the publisher of Foundations for the

08:26

Flock took 10 of those seminar materials and prepared them into book form, and that's how this book came into being.

08:40

Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, didn't Paul Washer have something to do with it? No, no, no.

08:46

Well, yes, in terms of the book coming into fruition, what happened was

08:51

Paul had come to Zambia to participate in a conference there, and he found a lot of these photocopied little booklets being sold.

09:03

And he then got a and brought them to a publisher, gave them to him, and that's how the publisher chose a number and turned them into this book.

09:16

Praise God. Really, yes, he played a vital role in turning them into little photocopied booklets, into a real book that's on the international market.

09:26

Praise God. Well, before we continue on with our discussion, one thing that I want to make sure I address is the

09:34

African Christian University, where Vowie Balcombe is now in Zambia.

09:41

He had relocated from the United States to Zambia to assist you in your work there. Let our listeners know about African Christian University.

09:51

Well, it's a real big project that's on our hands, and I would like to make a passionate appeal that Christians in the

10:01

USA join hands with us. Basically, if I could put it in a nutshell, approximately 10 years ago, our own churches were thinking that this project would materialize perhaps in the next 20 to 30 years, but an

10:18

American missionary met with a few of us, the church leaders, and shared with us a burden on his heart, which was to develop a liberal arts university, but from a clearly biblical framework in terms of a world view.

10:38

That immediately excited us, and we began working on it. It took at least another seven years of background work before we opened doors.

10:50

Part of it was due to government inertia, but three years ago, we finally opened, and as I speak, we have about 50 students all together who are studying with us, and it's revolutionizing their lives because it's not just giving them head knowledge.

11:12

Our faculty disciple our students one -on -one and in small groups, helping them to reduce their knowledge into life and practice.

11:25

It's just wonderful. Parents are singing praises when their children go back home because they're basically having children that they didn't see leave home totally transformed, and we now are trying to buy land, put up structures, and so that's where we need a lot of financial assistance.

11:48

Great. Well, if you want more information, the website is acu -usa .com.

11:56

Acu -usa .com. Do you have any other contact information that you want to give for the African Christian University?

12:03

Well, yes. If they could just google Voddy Bokom, any of his websites will finally give them enough contact with him, and he is definitely one of our main men on the ground.

12:21

We thank God for him, for his abilities, and the kind of change that that's bringing about in our context.

12:29

So googling his name will definitely provide an anchor into our work.

12:38

In fact, his exact website is voddybokom .org, and that's spelled

12:43

V as in victory, O -D -D as in David, I -E B -A -U -C -H -A -M .org.

12:50

V -O -D -D -I -E B -A -U -C -H -A -M .org. Voddy Bokom Ministries. And so I hope that as many of you as possible who have a passion for sound theology to be spread on the

13:04

African continent and beyond, hope that you can help with that very noble effort that they are participating in there.

13:12

And those of you who are Reformed, and especially those of you who are Reformed Baptists, will be delighted to know that if you didn't know already,

13:20

Dr. Conrad M. Bayway is a Reformed Baptist, and so is Voddy Bokom. So you could be assured that your money will be well spent if you have a particular interest in the doctrines of grace spreading in Africa as well.

13:35

Well, we already have some listener questions. In fact, I'm going to repeat our email address for everybody who would like to join us on the air with a question of your own.

13:46

It is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

13:53

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

14:00

USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

14:08

Let's say you're asking a question and you disagree with your own pastor over the issue or something, then we understand that you'd want to remain anonymous.

14:20

But other than that, please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

14:28

USA. The first question, I typically only give the first name, city and state of our listeners when they write in, but I'm going to make an exception here.

14:39

I usually make exceptions with pastors and other radio hosts or podcast hosts, and I'm going to do so now.

14:49

Dwayne Atkinson, who is host of The Bar Podcast, and B -A -R stands for Biblical and Reformed.

14:58

Dwayne, by the way, sends his greetings to you, Conrad, and is dying to interview you himself on his program, so hopefully that will happen eventually.

15:09

Let me give a plug to Dwayne's program. You can find out more about it at thebarpodcast .com.

15:22

But he asks a question, have you seen a shift in the church cultural from prosperity gospel to more sound biblical teaching in your area?

15:33

Yes, he is no doubt familiar with the fact that you have preached at the Strange Fire Conference at Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, and you have lamented over the fact that on the

15:50

African continent there is a plague of heretical theology involving the prosperity heresy, the word of faith heresy, that makes

16:03

Pentecostalism and charismatic theology and behavior here in the

16:09

United States seem very sound in comparison from what I understand. But if you could answer

16:15

Dwayne Atkinson's question. Unfortunately, no,

16:20

I wouldn't really say that. I think the situation is only getting worse, especially when you think in terms of the wider context of Africa, the wider context of Zambia.

16:37

Clearly in the last 10 years, for instance, African governments have also begun to say enough is enough, and they are beginning to step in in order to block the rot that's multiplied.

16:59

I'm aware, for instance, in our own country, a number of Nigerian pastors have been blocked from coming into Zambia and sent back because of what others have done before them, who have basically defrauded the

17:20

Zambian people of their money and so forth. And so clearly the situation is not getting better.

17:30

And part of the reason is the fact that this form of Christianity is a

17:39

Trojan horse. It's entered into Evangelicalism. It's easier to speak about, for instance,

17:46

Jehovah's Witnesses over there, but it's another story to speak about the charismatic movement, because it's inside and it's in shades.

17:59

You've got the conservatives, who to a large extent you'd be able to relate to quite warmly, but then it's basically in degrees.

18:10

And then on the extreme end, you've got this sort of cultish movement, which is sexually exploiting people.

18:20

It's just another form of African traditional religions and defrauding people financially.

18:27

So it is getting worse with time and would value your prayers for the church in Africa.

18:34

We're doing a lot of training of pastors across the country in the hope that they would see truth from error without necessarily leaving their denominations, but at least it would enable them to resist the flood that has come in.

18:54

Well, thank you, Dwayne. And guess what? You have won a free copy of Foundations for the

19:00

Flock, one of the books that we are discussing that was written by Dr.

19:05

Conrad Mbewe. Make sure that we receive your full mailing address there in Duncan, South Carolina, so that cvbbs .com,

19:15

one of our sponsors of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, can ship that book out to you at no charge to you or to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

19:25

And by the way, we do indeed want to thank our friends at Granted Ministries for providing these books for us today.

19:35

They are very generous and very eager to see Dr. Mbewe's writings fall into the hands by God's providence and to as many people as possible who will read the book and be blessed by it.

19:50

And so just a quick plug to their website as well, grantedministries .org.

19:57

Grantedministries .org is their website and I hope that you look that up and find even more resources that you can benefit from.

20:05

We have Gordy in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania.

20:14

And I have to enlarge the font on Gordy's question because it's microscopic and I'm at 56 years of age going blind here.

20:25

Definitely have to get a new prescription for glasses. Gordy's question is, what issues do you have, if any, in separation of church and state in Zambia?

20:41

That's one of two questions that he has. A lot of conservative

20:46

Christians here in the United States are very leery of the authority and power of the government.

20:56

And we are constantly struggling to make sure that our freedoms to proclaim our faith as freely as possible are preserved.

21:08

Of course, we are not being persecuted in any way nearly as much as many of our brothers and sisters in Christ in other parts of the world who are literally being murdered and tortured and persecuted in far infinitely greater ways.

21:24

But tell us about the situation there in Zambia in regard to your government. Yeah, first of all, let me speak negatively.

21:35

And it's the fact that, you know, a number of years ago in 1991,

21:41

Zambia was declared a Christian nation. And the president who did so,

21:48

President Frederick Chuluva, I think acted out of ignorance.

21:55

There was hardly any effort on his part to build confessions, to interact with scripture.

22:05

I think he saw himself as a kind of King David in the last days, sort of coming back into life, sort of entered into some vague covenant with God for Zambia and so on.

22:21

Now, clearly, it didn't have a leg to stand on. But be that as it may, because of the atmosphere of Christianity within Zambia, there was a lot of excitement.

22:34

The very statement was put into our new constitution. And invariably because of that, once Christianity puts on silver sandals, you know what happens.

22:49

Corruption enters in. And it began from the top. President Chuluva himself messed up his entire life in terms of morally to the very end of his life.

23:03

So that was something that was negative. And I'm not exactly sure what he had been hoping to achieve by that in terms of anything tangible, apart from some sort of vague spirituality that he went through.

23:23

On the positive end, though, it needs to be said that the

23:29

Zambian government is wary of the actual defrauding of their people.

23:38

And although they are acting from the premise of having a ministry of religious affairs, nonetheless, they are acting in a way that even the governments across Africa that don't claim to be

23:56

Christian are also acting. And countries like Kenya and Botswana are also beginning to tighten the screws, especially over this form of Christianity that's become like a plague upon the

24:14

African continent. So sometimes that tends to be confused with the declaration of Zambia as a

24:23

Christian nation when, as I said, to me it's simply government socially wanting to protect its people without necessarily prescribing to them the kind of religion that they should be in.

24:39

So that's what I would say. There is to some extent an unhealthy embracing of state and church and invariably corruption coming into the church.

24:53

It's really the other way around. It's coming into the church because of that. But having said that, there's also the positive that I've just talked about.

25:03

Well, praise God. Well, guess what, Gordy? You have also won a free copy of Foundations for the

25:09

Flock. And since you live so close to Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, who would normally be shipping that out to you, why don't you just drive by there, since Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania is only about 10 minutes away from this

25:23

Christian bookstore? Why don't you just swing by there and pick it up? It will be waiting there for you.

25:29

Just tell them that it's waiting there as a winner in our audience at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

25:38

We have Pastor Josh Freiman, who is the pastor of Community Baptist Church in Riverhead, Long Island, New York.

25:49

And he is soon to be the pastor in North Dakota, coming up in just a couple of months.

25:59

He is relocating and taking a call to the church, the

26:06

New Testament Baptist Church of Larimore, North Dakota.

26:11

And he doesn't have a question. He just wants to praise the Lord for your book, which he already has.

26:18

He already has Foundations for the Flock. And he said that he loved reading it and has been thoroughly blessed and edified by it.

26:26

And he also says in particular, he was blown away by your description of the elements in Lord's Supper, how bread is just a common food that everyone, even the poor, can afford.

26:42

And you described how it is a symbol for the body of Christ. Perhaps you could even elaborate a little bit more on that in regard to what you've written in your book about that.

26:52

Yeah, that's something I can't remember. Well, maybe you'll bring us some new information about that.

27:01

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think basically the point I would have been making is the fact that when the

27:07

Lord Jesus Christ was inaugurating the Lord's Supper, he was not going out of his way to get something unusual that would then be used to symbolize his death.

27:22

Rather, he used what at that time would have been a normal part of a meal, the bread and the wine.

27:33

And so I was arguing that in the same way when we are applying it in an

27:41

African context, we are not expected to go out of our way to try and bring into the village, for instance, a drink that doesn't exist anywhere nearby.

27:55

You know, an example being wine itself. So the use of a beverage that is normally used around a meal would be appropriate, because the main thing is to symbolize the body and blood of the

28:17

Lord Jesus Christ. And in both cases, it's primarily to symbolize his death.

28:23

And that's what I was trying to teach the Church, so that the members are not thinking that there is something in the emblem itself that plays some kind of spiritual role in and of itself.

28:42

That this basically symbolizes something, and it's the truth that we know that then really edifies.

28:50

I think that's probably what our brother might be referring to. Well, thank you,

28:56

Josh. And since you already have the book, obviously, you don't need another one. So we just appreciate you contributing that comment of praise to God that you are being blessed by this book.

29:09

And we look forward to hearing more from you after your move to North Dakota. We have, oh yeah, we have a second question that is related to the first by Gordy in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania.

29:22

Is the climate in Zambia between the Church and government improving or worsening?

29:28

Well, you may have already answered that, but do you have anything further to add? Yeah, well, in that sense, to a large extent,

29:35

Zambia is like America. Because over 80 % of Zambians claim to be

29:43

Christians, any politician knows that if I upset the

29:50

Church, I've lost the election. And consequently, almost everybody who campaigns for the top position or as area member of parliament, the first place they begin to go to regularly is the

30:08

Church. They become worshippers. They ensure that the press, you know, camera crew is with them when they go there and so on.

30:21

So yes, perhaps at the beginning of their term, once they are in, they may make decisions that could be a little unpopular with the

30:30

Church. But as they're getting closer to election time, they really try to buy back that favor.

30:37

And so I would not speak in terms of the Church and state in Zambia, you know, coming to loggerheads with each other.

30:52

I wouldn't say so. I think on the whole, we enjoy the respect of political leaders.

31:01

I know that they are concerned, I want to repeat, with these wildfires that are there in the

31:10

Church. But it's not against Christianity, per se.

31:16

Thanks again, Gordy. And we're going to go to our first break right now. If anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrizarnsen at gmail .com.

31:27

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -S -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

31:37

USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away. God willing, we'll be right back with Dr.

31:44

Conrad Mbewe right after these messages from our sponsors. Tired of bop store

31:50

Christianity, of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert? Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

31:59

And how about the preaching? Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

32:05

Well, there's good news. Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience, featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

32:15

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you. Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times.

32:24

631 -929 -3512. Or check out their website at wrbc .us.

32:32

That's wrbc .us. I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

32:38

The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study. Used by pastors, scholars, and everyday readers, the

32:44

NASV is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible translation. The NASV offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the

32:53

NASV is known for. The NASV is available in many editions like a Topical Reference Bible. Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new

33:01

Topical Reference Bible includes contemporary topics relevant to today's issues. From compact to giant print

33:07

Bibles, find an NASV that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible .com. Whichever edition you choose, trust, discover, and enjoy the

33:15

NASV for yourself today. Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com.

33:53

Useful and I assure you, never dull. Join us this Saturday at 12 noon eastern time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs a pastor.

34:23

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

34:29

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

34:40

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered,

34:46

Christ -exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

34:53

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

35:02

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And Mike Gaydosch, the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books, who happens to be a mutual friend of both my guests

35:14

Dr. Conrad M. Bayway and myself, he wants you to be reminded that the bonded leather edition of the 1689

35:22

London Baptist Confession of Faith is back in stock there, and also the paperback version of the

35:28

Three Forms of Unity. And let's not forget that if you want to take advantage of the pre -publication sale for the 22 -volume set of the complete works of Thomas Manton, who was a 17th century giant of theology, then go to solid -ground -books .com.

35:46

You will get that 22 -volume set for about 70 % off of the retail price.

35:53

So it will be under $400, and it retails for over $1 ,000 typically.

36:00

And so if you want to take advantage of that, you have nothing to fear about being charged for the set if they don't go into print, because they are not going to charge you until the books are already in print.

36:12

But the caveat is that you need to get involved in the pre -publication sale in order not only to get the sale price, but also to get the book printed, because they need a certain number of pre -publication orders in order to move forward with this enormous project.

36:28

These are hardback, 22 volumes in hardback, that are smith's stone on acid -free paper, which is the finest quality and binding that you can get.

36:39

So go to solid -ground -books .com, and please tell Mike Gaydosch that you heard about this offer from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

36:47

In fact, Mike Gaydosch was the pastor of Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York.

36:55

When I first met our guest, Dr. Conrad Mbewe, he invited Conrad to preach for us during his first trip to the

37:03

United States, and it's a blessing that our friendship has remained all these years, brother.

37:10

Yes, yes, I really appreciate you. You've done your part. I should have done better over the years, but you've always kept a finger on where I am, and I've really appreciated that.

37:22

I'm glad that our friend, our mutual friend Gary Wolf, is still in regular contact with you. Yes, I'm visiting him in a few weeks for a private visit.

37:32

Yes, well, he's a great brother. Yep. And we have another listener in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

37:40

Ted, he asked a very similar question that we've already had presented to us by Gordy in Mechanicsburg, but he has a little bit of a twist at the end.

37:51

Perhaps you can comment. He says, A grave concern of many of our Reformed Baptist brethren in the U .S. is the anticipated loss of religious freedoms that many

38:00

American Christians have heretofore taken for granted. As someone viewing

38:05

American evangelicalism from the outside, do you share those concerns? If so, what would be your advice to American Christians who desire to prepare themselves for more difficult times ahead?

38:19

That last part, perhaps, is a little bit of a different question than the previous one. Yeah, yeah.

38:26

Well, look, you know, when people ask me questions about, you know, what advice

38:33

I would give to believers in a different nation that's more, if I could use the word, more providential rather than simply what scripture directly says,

38:48

I'm often at a loss because I think that God has his pastors, his shepherds in the various nations of the world, and he deals with them.

39:02

He, as it were, ministers to them and through them to his people.

39:08

And consequently, you know, someone flying in cannot be a seven -day wonder and solve, you know, all the problems of a nation.

39:17

So my role often, the way I view it, is to come alongside these servants of God and simply add my voice in terms of echoing what they probably are already saying, because it's the same

39:33

Bible I am preaching from. And in that sense, there are two issues, and both of them scream at us from the scriptures that I think are vital, and I think that the

39:47

American church has, by and large, lost. Not everybody, but by and large.

39:53

One is genuine evangelism, where conversions are real, where the churches are not satisfied with simply lip service.

40:08

Someone repeating a sinner's prayer, signing on the dotted line, walking the aisle, but rather real transformations of life.

40:19

A person beginning to hate sin and to love

40:24

God in real service and sacrifice.

40:32

That aspect is something that I tend to notice that the

40:38

American church seems to have lost. There's been too much of an easy believism, and consequently comes the second part, and which is the whole issue of holiness.

40:53

The people of God being a distinct people, not wanting to mesh into their culture and environment, but seeking to live for God, seeking to have lives that are counterculture, even in American culture.

41:14

I think that also is something that's been largely lost, so that there is almost an embarrassment about being different, almost an apology to the world if the world seems to think that we are giving a politically incorrect message.

41:40

It seems to me, because of those two realities, the

41:45

Christian church has largely lost its teeth, its bite, its cutting edge.

41:56

Invariably, to borrow the phrase in Scripture, when salt has lost its saltiness, then it gets trampled upon by men.

42:06

I tend to think that something of that is coming, but it's coming in order to purify the church.

42:16

So in that sense, God's people need not fear. Yes, there will be physical persecution, but it will be for the purpose of cleaning up the church, purifying it, so that once the rubble is removed, genuine gold may truly be seen.

42:37

So that's the way that I've put it over on this end. Back home, where we're coming from, persecution tends to often be at the point when individuals are professing to be evangelical

42:52

Christians. They tend to be ostracized by family and friends, but in due season, it becomes clear that, you know, this person won't be worn back by being thrown into the furnace, so to speak, and believers then gain the respect of the world.

43:15

So that's what we tend to see largely back home. Well, thanks a lot, Ted, in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

43:22

You've also won a free copy of Foundations for the Flock. Make sure that we have your complete mailing address so that CVVBS .com

43:29

can ship that out to you. We have, let's see, we have a question from John in Bangor, Maine, and he says,

43:43

I know that Foundations for the Flock would echo the hearts of many

43:49

Reformed pastors throughout the world in regarding the need to return to biblical foundations in our churches, but what are the primary concerns you have amongst our own

44:03

Reformed brethren where you see a drift away from these foundations? What are these foundations that are being undermined or even abandoned, in your opinion, amongst our own theological circles?

44:18

Yeah, yeah, well, you know, perhaps I'm going to end the right words here.

44:26

You know, I'm perhaps too privileged because I come into America in a tunnel, and I pop up in a conference that represents something of my own values, and then again

44:45

I go underground and pop out in Lusaka, Zambia.

44:51

So because I don't live here, I tend to often be among like -minded brethren, the ones who often invite me would be individuals who would have invited me primarily because of the things

45:08

I stand for, which are correctly represented in the book. So in terms of the immediate context that I find myself in, which may not represent

45:21

Reformed brethren across the board across the United States because, you know, perhaps the others don't invite me and so I don't know of those shades and colors,

45:32

I must admit I've been quite encouraged by the kind of efforts that I'm seeing here to define biblical evangelism, define church discipline, and just the whole area of discipling of what church membership is all about, the whole area of appreciating what is the true gospel, what are church elders and deacons and so on, how should the church confront the world evangelistically and provide an authentic culture, a biblical culture.

46:15

What I'm seeing is a great encouragement. I mean, I do hear them bemoaning the context in which they are, but as I said,

46:26

I arrive, I pop up out of the tunnel and I'm in the kind of church that I would want to recommend to my own people with no hesitation.

46:37

So I might be, and I keep saying this to people who ask me such questions, I may be the wrong person to really give a right answer to that question.

46:51

It would be best perhaps for individuals who may have been in Zambia and have now emigrated to America and consequently have lived here.

47:02

I think they are the ones who would be ringing warning bells left, right, and center.

47:09

Well, thank you, John, and you have also won a free copy of the book Foundations for the Flock, so please make sure we have your full mailing address.

47:18

We have CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who says, being in Zambia, is it more necessary to be more ecumenical with those who are not reformed just so that you can accomplish things for the kingdom?

47:40

And if so, what are the barriers that you will not pass when it comes to ecumenical relationships with those churches and parachurch organizations that are not

47:54

Calvinistic? Yeah, yeah. If that question is about me and where I'll draw the line, frankly,

48:03

I tend to draw the line on our understanding of the gospel in its basic structures.

48:11

In other words, you know, issues of sin, issues of the work of Christ on the cross, who he was and what he did, our understanding of how a person benefits from what

48:30

Christ did in terms of repentance and faith.

48:36

I think where I can see that we are on the same page, we are reading from the same hymn sheet,

48:47

I tend to want to put other things in a secondary position.

48:54

So for instance, I don't mind working with such people to train pastors in terms of helping them know how to dig into the scriptures.

49:05

We may differ on what we will see when we dig. I'm willing to live with that.

49:13

As long as both of us are saying this is the word of God, what it says is final.

49:21

I'm willing to live with that. If, for instance, I'm a Baptist, I'm willing to work with a pedo -Baptist who still somehow thinks that infant baptism is somewhere in the scriptures, but we are working together on the basis of the scriptures being inspired of God in a plenary sense.

49:46

With respect to the work of the Holy Spirit, I'm a secessionist, but I'm willing to work with conservative non -secessionists where I am seeing a genuine faith in God.

50:09

We obviously would draw the line in terms of church planting because I do want to see churches planted that embrace, as it were, the full menu of our church's understanding of scripture.

50:25

But there will be areas where I'm willing that we work together. For instance, as I've already said, in terms of conferences around the gospel,

50:36

I'm willing to say, let's get a good speaker, let's bring him into the country, let's get our churches together so that there's some level of unity around Christ that our own people get to appreciate.

50:55

The difficulty in Africa is, as I've already said, when you now cross over into non -secessionism, where do you draw the line between the conservative and the absolutely absurd?

51:11

Because it's not one extreme or the other. It's like a spectrum.

51:20

It's like a rainbow. It's difficult to draw the line. That's where the challenges tend to be.

51:27

So I still do work with some of them because I've come to see real, genuine concern for even the values of the

51:41

Christian life and so forth. I think that's the way that I would put it, generally speaking.

51:47

I think it's because that's where the Bible also draws the line. Because if you look at the churches that Paul wrote epistles to, and even the churches in the second and third chapters of the book of Revelation, they were not perfect.

52:09

They had a lot of areas that needed to be clipped.

52:16

But having said that, there was a way in which those that had ears to hear were still being appealed to and consequently helped to become better churches.

52:29

And I personally would want to see that my life is blessed by God in terms of helping people beyond the

52:41

Reformed Baptist circles to a firmer grasp of God's Word.

52:47

Well, thank you, CJ. You've also won a free copy of Foundations for the Flock. Please make sure we have your full mailing address in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, and cvbbs .com.

52:57

We'll ship that out to you. We're going to our midway break. This is a longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

53:04

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a 12 -minute break between our two major segments.

53:10

So we'll take this time to write down the information that our advertisers provide so that you can patronize them and also write questions in for our guests,

53:21

Dr. Conrad M. Bayway. We are switching the topic to another book of his pastoral preaching, but you can ask any question in the

53:29

Christian faith of our guests. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

53:35

Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with our guest, Dr. Conrad M. Bayway. Thriving Financial is not your typical financial services provider.

53:44

As a membership organization, we help Christians be wise with money and live generously every day.

53:50

And for the fourth year in a row, we were named one of the world's most ethical companies by the

53:55

Ethisphere Institute, a leading international think tank dedicated to the creation, advancement, and sharing of best practices in business ethics.

54:04

Contact me, Mike Gallagher, Financial Consultant, at 717 -254 -6433.

54:11

Again, 717 -254 -6433 to learn more about the

54:17

Thriving Difference. Lending faith, finances, and generosity.

54:29

That's the Thriving Story. Iron Sharpens Iron welcomes

54:51

Solid Rock Remodeling to our family of sponsors. Serving South Central Pennsylvania, Solid Rock Remodeling is focused on discovering, understanding, and exceeding your expectations.

55:03

They deliver personalized project solutions with exceptional results. Solid Rock Remodeling offers a full range of home renovations, including kitchen and bath remodeling, decks, porches, windows and doors, roof and siding, and more.

55:21

For a clear, detailed professional estimate, call this trustworthy team of problem solvers who provide superior results that stand the test of time.

55:31

Call Solid Rock Remodeling at 717 -697 -1981, 717 -697 -1981, or visit solidrockremodeling .com.

55:45

That's solidrockremodeling .com. Solid Rock Remodeling, bringing new life to your home.

55:58

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.

56:06

He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

56:14

You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the

56:21

Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

56:34

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting books for all ages.

56:41

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

56:46

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

56:55

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

57:29

office gatherings, bridal showers, engagement parties, and rehearsal dinners. Critics and guests alike acknowledge

57:36

Chef Exclusive's commitment to exceeding even the highest expectations. I know of their quality firsthand since Chef Exclusive catered by most recent

57:46

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio pastor's luncheon. For details, call 717 -388 -3000.

57:53

That's 717 -388 -3000. Or visit Chefexclusive .com.

58:00

That's Chefexclusive .com. Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am

58:07

I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man,

58:14

I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church. We are a

58:20

Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

58:27

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do than how men view these things.

58:35

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostle's priority, it must not be ours either.

58:42

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love.

58:55

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

59:01

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750, that's 508 -528 -5750, or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our

59:12

TV program entitled, Resting in Grace. You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org,

59:18

that's providencebaptistchurchma .org, or even on sermonaudio .com. Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor

59:26

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. One sure way all

59:33

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers. I know you all use batteries every day, so I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively use

59:46

BatteryDepot .com for all your battery needs. At BatteryDepot .com,

59:51

they're changing the status quo, they're flipping the script, they're sticking it to the man. In other words, they'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory of top -of -the -line batteries that are uniformly new, dependable, and affordable.

01:00:07

Ordering from BatteryDepot .com ensures you'll always get fresh out -of -the -box batteries you can count on to work properly at competitive prices.

01:00:17

Whether you need batteries for cordless phones, cell phones, radios, PCs, laptops, tablets, baby monitors, hearing aids, smoke detectors, credit card readers, digital cameras, electronic cigarettes,

01:00:32

GPSs, MP3 players, watches, or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries, go to BatteryDepot .com.

01:00:41

Next day shipping available. All products protected by 30 -day guarantees and six -month warranties.

01:00:48

Call 866 -403 -3768. That's 866 -403 -3768.

01:00:57

Or go to BatteryDepot .com. That's BatteryDepot .com. Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

01:01:18

Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus. We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

01:01:27

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ.

01:01:35

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world.

01:01:49

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

01:01:56

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333.

01:02:03

That's 631 -385 -8333. Or visit liyfc .org.

01:02:12

That's liyfc .org. Tired of box store

01:02:22

Christianity? Of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert? Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

01:02:31

And how about the preaching? Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

01:02:37

Well, there's good news. Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

01:02:47

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you. Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times.

01:02:56

631 -929 -3512. Or check out their website at wrbc .us.

01:03:04

That's wrbc .us. I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

01:03:10

The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study. Used by pastors, scholars, and everyday readers, the

01:03:15

NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible translation. The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the

01:03:25

NASB is known for. The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible. Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference

01:03:34

Bible includes contemporary topics relevant to today's issues. From compact to giant print

01:03:39

Bibles, find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible .com. Whichever edition you choose, trust, discover, and enjoy the

01:03:47

NASB for yourself today. Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com.

01:04:53

Cvbbs .com. Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work in service to you, the church, and to Christ.

01:05:05

That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at cvbbs .com. That's cvbbs .com.

01:05:13

Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. And don't forget, you can also call cvbbs .com

01:05:21

at their toll -free number 800 -656 -0231, 800 -656 -0231.

01:05:28

They man that phone line Monday through Friday from 10 a .m. to 4 .30 p .m. So if you call and there's no answer, just call back the next day if you insist on ordering by phone.

01:05:38

But you can always 24 -7 order at cvbbs .com.

01:05:44

Always remember to mention to Todd and Patty Jennings, the owners of cvbbs .com, that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

01:05:54

In fact, if you mention this radio program and you purchase $50 or more worth of merchandise, you will get absolutely free of charge the book

01:06:01

The Salt of the Covenant, or The Biblical Doctrine of Salvation. This is a $22 hardback, shrink -wrapped, and it was first published in 1908 and reprinted with revisions by Sovereign Grace Union of London in 1932.

01:06:19

And this is a very recent republication of that beautiful book, hardback, $22 retail price, and you will get it for free by ordering $50 or more from cvbbs .com

01:06:32

by mentioning Chris Arnzen and Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. Before we return to our discussion with Conrad Mbewe, I just want to remind you again that the

01:06:43

Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology is coming up, and our guest, Dr. Conrad Mbewe, is speaking at both locations where this conference will be held.

01:06:54

He will be one of the speakers on a very impressive roster, April 13th through the 15th at the

01:07:01

First Christian Reform Church of Byron Center, Michigan, and then he will also be at the church where I will be attending the conference,

01:07:09

April 27th through the 29th at the Proclamation Presbyterian Church in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania, and the theme is

01:07:18

The Spirit of the Age and the Age of the Spirit. The other speakers on that roster are

01:07:23

Daniel Aiken, Richard Gaffin, Daniel Hyde, Richard Phillips, my friend who's the pastor of Second Presbyterian Church in Greenville, South Carolina, Jonathan Master, David Murray, and Scott Oliphant.

01:07:34

In fact, I've interviewed all of these men, with the exception of Scott Oliphant, and I'm very much looking forward to God opening up the opportunity to get

01:07:42

Scott on the program as well. I hope that happens soon. If you have more questions about this, or if you'd like to register, go to alliancenet .org,

01:07:52

click on events, and then click on Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology, The Spirit of the

01:07:58

Age and the Age of the Spirit. Please tell the folks at the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals that you heard about these conferences from Chris Arnzen on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

01:08:08

Last but not least is the time that I hate most of all, that's rattling my tin cup and begging you for money.

01:08:15

The advertisers that have spent hard -earned money for years keeping this program on the air have urged me over and over and over again to make public appeals for donations, and for many years

01:08:26

I ignored their urging, and now I have, over the last few months,

01:08:33

I have backed down and submitted to their requests, because we are in urgent need of more donations and more advertisers.

01:08:41

If you love this show, you don't want it to go away, you look forward to it every day, you share the free mp3s with others, then please go to ironsharpensironradio .com,

01:08:51

click support, and then click click to donate now. Anybody anywhere in the world can immediately donate via a debit or credit card by clicking click to donate now.

01:09:02

If you prefer the old -fashioned way by mailing a check via snail mail, there will be an address there as well where you can send a check made payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:09:13

Please never ever siphon money out of your regular giving to your local church where you are a member. If you're not a member of a local bible -believing church and you're not prayerfully seeking for one, you are living in disobedience to God, please rectify that situation and join a local bible -believing church.

01:09:31

Never siphon money away from your giving to them, and never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:09:39

Those two things are commands of God. Giving to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is not a command, obviously, of God, but if you love the show and you're financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two biblical commands, then please consider going to IronSharpensIronRadio .com,

01:09:54

clicking support, and click click to donate now. And also if you want to advertise with us, just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:10:04

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put advertising in the subject line.

01:10:12

And as long as whatever it is you're advertising is compatible with what we believe here, you don't have to believe exactly as I do, but what you're advertising has to be compatible with what

01:10:20

I believe. It cannot militate against what I believe. Then we would love to promote whatever it is you're doing, because we certainly could use your advertising dollars.

01:10:30

So send that email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line. And use that same email address if you have a question for our guest

01:10:38

Dr. Conrad Mbewe. We are now discussing his book, Pastoral Preaching, and our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:10:49

Give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

01:10:54

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Dr.

01:11:00

Mbewe, can you tell us something about what compelled you to write this book on pastoral preaching?

01:11:08

There are obviously, as you know, many books available to the church on preaching, both old books that are classic and also new books that are coming out, even by some of our dear brethren who we agree with on most, if not all, important theological issues.

01:11:27

Why was there a need for a new book on preaching? That's exactly the question

01:11:33

I asked myself when

01:11:38

I was first approached by Langham Literature to write a book on preaching.

01:11:44

I just thought to myself, well look, there must be so many other books that one could draw from, but Langham Literature seeks to encourage evangelical believers in the majority world, that is

01:12:04

Latin America, Africa, Asia, and Eastern Europe, to write books for their own people.

01:12:14

When I began to think like that, I realized I couldn't think of a book on preaching that was written by an

01:12:25

African pastor for Africans. I just couldn't. I mean, there probably are some, but they're definitely not readily available.

01:12:34

So I then made a conscious decision that I was going to write a book which would not just be an echo of the many other books that are out there in the

01:12:44

West, but I was going to deliberately concentrate on the kind of issues that African pastors are wrestling with, and also that I was going to use the language of Africa, the thought forms and thought patterns that Africans can identify with.

01:13:10

We Africans are rich in proverbs, for instance, so I deliberately went in that direction.

01:13:19

We tend to speak a lot more in concrete terms rather than abstract. Again, I measured a lot in that direction.

01:13:28

We use a lot of examples. We speak in terms of mountains and leopards and lions and so forth.

01:13:39

Again, our favorite sport is football. You call it soccer here, but the rest of the world calls it football.

01:13:50

Consequently, that became one of the major sources of illustration for me as well.

01:13:57

So I really wrote a book for Africa. In that sense, I thought that even pastors and Bible college lecturers in the

01:14:08

West would then think, okay, there's an extra book I can add to myself because it's not just an echo or division of everything else that I have.

01:14:18

It's a book that is bringing some sidelight into preaching from the

01:14:25

African context. Now, could any pastor or someone who is in seminary who has the desire to become a pastor, anybody who is a preacher, benefit from this book no matter where they live?

01:14:42

Yes. In fact, what has happened since is that the publishers realized after I handed in the manuscript that this was a book that in fact could be used beyond Africa.

01:14:55

So although initially it was supposed to be under an imprint that is called

01:15:01

Hippo Books, which are peculiarly for Africa, they have since taken it out of that context and simply put it under the wider

01:15:11

Langham literature books for preachers. And as I speak, it's being translated into Spanish for South America where most of the countries are

01:15:25

Spanish -speaking and so forth. So it definitely would not be, if I could use the phrase, totally out of their breath as they want to get into pastoral ministry.

01:15:44

The only thing is clearly they are already spoiled, as you already said at the beginning, with so many other books out here in the

01:15:53

West. Well, if you want more information about Langham Partnership, you can go to langham .org

01:16:00

and that's spelled L -A -N -G -H -A -M .org. That's langham .org. They also have a

01:16:06

United States website, us .langham .org. And this was an organization founded in 1969 by the greatly loved

01:16:17

John Stott, who is now in eternity with Christ. And so we hope that many of you investigate this very worthwhile organization.

01:16:28

That's langham .org. Does this book include both hermeneutic and homiletic information?

01:16:39

There are many books that seem to address the concept of preaching from a hermeneutical concept, but there is, it seems anyway, a lack of books that actually address homiletics, the art of preaching, the actual counsel and advice and teaching in regard to the mechanics of oratory and so on.

01:17:13

If you could explain more about that. Yeah, well, what I've done in this book is

01:17:20

I've imagined an individual who hasn't been to Bible college and is now a regular pastor in a church.

01:17:30

Now, that may be a rare breed out here, but in Africa, that's 90 % of the pastors.

01:17:41

Very few of them have actually gone to Bible college. Many of them are just going from being a member of a church, desire to preach, before they know it, they are providing regular ministry.

01:17:55

So what I've tried to do was, first of all, to try and simply define what pastoral preaching is, so that individuals can see that it's different from evangelistic preaching.

01:18:10

You're not just standing in your pulpit every Sunday wanting souls to get saved, which is a perennial diet in most churches, but you are now seeking to give them growth and maturity.

01:18:27

So that's the first. And then I deal with the relationship between pastoral preaching and the church.

01:18:36

Why do it in a church? What's the benefit to the church?

01:18:42

And what's the church's benefit to pastoral preaching? After that,

01:18:48

I deal with how pastoral preachers are trained.

01:18:55

And I don't begin with college. I begin with the role of a pastor as he is seeing seedlings that are sprouting up under his ministry, individuals who are beginning to sense a call to the ministry.

01:19:15

What should he be doing with them? Which, again, is the major form of training that most pastors have.

01:19:23

I became a pastor in 1987, and I had never been through the doors of Bible college.

01:19:31

And that's not a rare thing. I needed someone to disciple me through the process, so I deal with that.

01:19:42

And then I deal with some of the major difficulties. Why is it that a lot of pastors just fail to build a people for God?

01:19:55

So I deal with a number of areas there. Before I now go into what we're talking about here, which is how to handle different kinds of passages in the

01:20:11

Bible, narrative passages, didactic passages, poetic and prophetic passages.

01:20:17

How do you handle that? And then towards the end of the book, I deal with the power of pastoral preaching.

01:20:25

Where does it come from? Now that's important in Africa because there's a lot of this anointing, anointing, anointing kind of stuff going around.

01:20:36

You go to a meeting, you get zapped, and the next time you're in a pulpit, everybody's falling all over you and the power of the

01:20:45

Spirit. So I clearly say no to all that. And I talk about the study life of the pastor, the prayer life of the pastor, and the godly life of the pastor.

01:20:57

And then finally I end with the rewards of pastoral preaching.

01:21:03

First of all on earth, through the lives that mature under you, and then finally

01:21:09

Christ's reward in heaven. So that's the table of contents, as it were, of the book.

01:21:15

Great. We have a listener who has a question that is off topic, but I think that it is so timely and I think it's an important question that I will take it anyway.

01:21:28

PJ, as in pajamas, PJ in Bridge City, Texas, says, in Zambia, do you see a large problem with quote -unquote race issues since it would be very current to the problems we are seeing to seeming to have in the

01:21:47

American church? Could you give some advice to the situation at hand? Yes, we are, I don't know how much you are aware of a situation, but it seems that even amongst

01:21:59

Reformed brethren there is some hostility breaking out where you have those who are either of the black race, in fact we

01:22:10

I'm sure would agree that there is only one race, the human race, but they are basically bringing into the forefront of discussion the sin of racism and many of them, it seems, and this would even include white

01:22:30

Christians who are siding with them, many of them are seemingly pointing the figure at white individuals alone as being guilty of the sin of racism and being the cause of the problems that involve racism, rather than seeing it as a universal sin that affects men of all skin colors, ethnic groups, and nationalities, and some people unfortunately have been slandered publicly as being guilty of the sin of racism just because they may approach the topic in a different way than these other individuals are happy with, but if you could just respond to what

01:23:10

I'm saying, I hope I didn't sound too confusing here. Yeah, well look, you know,

01:23:17

I feel like a person who has walked into a room full of bees. Yeah, because I mean, the difference between my last visit to the

01:23:34

U .S., which would have been about October, November last year, and this visit is like light and darkness with respect to this issue.

01:23:44

I've just walked into a very polarized context and I'm almost wondering, you know, how one can be relevant to this, especially because, you know, where I come from, we are almost colorblind, and I mean it.

01:24:05

We just don't think in skin color categories. I know

01:24:12

South Africa does. In fact, the very first time I ever got conscious of my skin color was when

01:24:19

I flew to South Africa and I was treated in such a way that one group was saying to me, don't hang around those white guys.

01:24:38

You know, we're about to get rid of them. The other group was sort of looking down upon what in South Africa they call black people, and it just was a shock to me because back in Zambia, that's just not the way we think.

01:25:04

We have people of various skin shades and colors, but, you know, it's

01:25:10

John or Mary. It's Dick or Jennifer. That's the main thing, and okay, granted, they are usually in different economic levels, but it's not something that colors our decisions and the social framework in which we find ourselves.

01:25:35

Now, that wasn't true of our parents. Our parents were – now,

01:25:42

I'm in my 50s, so when I say our parents, we're talking about those who have been 70, 80, 90 years old now.

01:25:52

They were the people that fought against the colonial masters, against Britain as a colonial power, and so they were constantly thinking in terms of white and black, and we're reacting, but we went into mixed schools.

01:26:08

We played with people of every – you know, you'd use the word race, but really, you're talking in terms of skin pigmentation, and so we just don't have that.

01:26:22

I come to the U .S. whether I'm with African Americans or I'm with people of European descent,

01:26:33

I just know this is John, this is Mary, and I relate, but clearly, something seems to have just happened in the recent past that's caused not just the society, but the church, the evangelical church, even within reform circles, to suddenly, you know, cock their guns and be ready to shoot at any moment.

01:27:00

I'm hoping it's a passing phase. I'm hoping the next time I come and visit that I will find a more congenial environment, but at this stage,

01:27:11

I do admit it's a little toxic, and it's not the best of situations to say the least.

01:27:18

Amen, I agree, and even your brother and colleague, Vodie Baucom, has been sometimes unfairly and slanderously publicly attacked by those in the black community and those who would agree with them because they don't think that he is accommodating enough to their positions, so this is not just a black -white issue.

01:27:41

This kind of spreads to whether or not you share the opinion of a particular group or not.

01:27:48

Yeah, well, I'm hoping that when I get back to Zambia, I will visit Vodie and just hear him out because he was in Canada recently, so he was a stone's throw away from the epicenter of this situation, and I'm sure he has a lot to share with me when

01:28:09

I get back home. All right, great. Well, we'd love to hear an update on that, and in fact, we're going to go to our final break, which is very brief, and PJ in Bridge City, Texas actually has a question that involves the topic that we will ask, and so we will do that when we come back from our final break.

01:28:29

This is a very short break, so don't go away. God willing, we'll be right back with Dr. Conrad M. Bayway after these messages from our sponsors.

01:28:41

Have you been blessed by Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio? We remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you.

01:28:50

There are four ways you can help. First, do you know potential sponsors who may wish to advertise their goods or services on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio?

01:28:59

Second, whenever possible, purchase the products or use the services that our sponsors advertise.

01:29:05

Third, if you have any questions, please email us at ironsharpensironradio .com. And then let them know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. Thirdly, you can also donate to Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio by going to our website at ironsharpensironradio .com

01:29:17

and click support at the top of the page. But most importantly, keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio in your prayers.

01:29:24

We hope that Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio blesses you for many years to come. Lynnbrook Baptist Church on 225

01:29:35

Earl Avenue in Lynnbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century. Our church is far more than a

01:29:41

Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

01:29:47

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

01:29:55

We're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and together.

01:30:01

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Lynnbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

01:30:07

Call Lynnbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402 or visit lynnbrookbaptist .org.

01:30:17

That's lynnbrookbaptist .org. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

01:30:25

Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted.

01:30:32

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

01:30:38

You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the

01:30:44

Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

01:30:57

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered,

01:31:02

Christ -exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

01:31:10

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

01:31:19

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And we invite you to visit

01:31:48

The Pastor's Study by calling in with your questions. Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

01:31:55

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern time for a visit to The Pastor's Study, because everyone needs a pastor.

01:32:02

And if you call in to a visit to The Pastor's Study with a question, please make sure you tell Pastor Bill Shishko, the host of that program, that you heard about a visit to The Pastor's Study from Chris Arnson on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:32:14

And once again, that program airs live every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern time on wlie540am .com

01:32:23

on the internet, wlie540am .com. And W -L -I -E is a very unfortunate call letters or unfortunate call letters for a

01:32:33

Christian program, but L -I -E is for the Long Island Expressway. It doesn't mean lie. And I am so excited that a visit to The Pastor's Study is being added to the broadcast lineup of First Love Radio that airs

01:32:49

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. So we look forward to Pastor Bill Shishko being added to that roster of speakers.

01:32:57

And we are now back to our final 25 minutes or so with Dr. Conrad Mbewe. We are now talking about pastoral preaching.

01:33:05

If you'd like to join us on the air, do so now or forever hold your peace because we're rapidly running out of time. Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

01:33:12

Chrisarnsen at gmail .com. And give us your first name, city, and state, and country of residence.

01:33:18

We have, again, PJ from Bridge City, Texas, who says, can you lay down your sermon preparation in a quick summary?

01:33:27

And also, what is, of course, other than a clear picture of the gospel, the most important thing to you in preaching and teaching?

01:33:39

Yeah, yeah. Well, in the context of pastoral preaching, I think it's a lot more than simply preparing a sermon.

01:33:48

There's a sense in which you dwell among the people, you sense where they are, and then also you dwell with God, and you sense where God's heart is.

01:34:01

And consequently, as you are studying God's Word for yourself and growing in the knowledge of God, there are sections of the

01:34:12

Bible that seem to appeal to you as appropriate medicine for the ailment that is among your people.

01:34:25

And that's what often results in you choosing, which takes not so much for this coming

01:34:31

Sunday, but which next portion of Scripture you will be handling.

01:34:37

Now, what I find, therefore, is that I would have done quite a lot of the groundwork in that passage of Scripture much earlier.

01:34:47

I would have read through it, I would have read some book alongside it as part of my own edification.

01:34:54

I would have wrestled with some of the issues that are there while I'm doing another series altogether in the life of the

01:35:01

Church. And then, finally, it is time for me to deal with the actual series of sermons, so I begin that series.

01:35:15

Now, I think I'm where you want me to be. It's now this coming Sunday. It's this particular portion of Scripture that I will be dealing with.

01:35:26

I think normally my first task is to get into the meat of the text, to break it down, to appreciate the words that are in the text, the structure that is in the text, and then work around the text itself so that I'm appreciating its context.

01:35:49

And as much as possible, I'm trying to breathe the air that would have been there at that time in the life of the one who was speaking those words to his people.

01:36:02

I want to finally be able to confidently say this is what this passage is all about.

01:36:09

For instance, in a few minutes, I will be preaching from Psalm 51.

01:36:15

And as you know, many people think Psalm 51 is a cry for forgiveness. I've wrestled with that when

01:36:22

I was preaching on it and felt that, in fact, it is more a cry for assurance of forgiveness because David had already been told by Nathan that your sins have been forgiven.

01:36:36

But he still writes an entire Psalm where he's saying, be merciful to me, blot out my transgressions.

01:36:44

And so, again, it's the ability to stand back and say, I'm now comfortable. This is what

01:36:50

I think it's saying. And then, of course, I try to compare with other commentators, other writers, just to make sure that I haven't fallen off the edge of the planet, as it were, with my own thoughts.

01:37:08

Then from there, I seek to work out the structure of the sermon itself, putting the meat, putting the illustrations.

01:37:21

I'm not very good at putting illustrations as I prepare. I often end up producing the illustrations during the eye contact that I have with God's people.

01:37:35

But I know for some people that would be difficult, but that's just me. So I think that, in a nutshell, is the way that I prepare my messages.

01:37:46

I don't normally go beyond one page in my sermon notes.

01:37:52

So because of that, I don't sort of start preparing my notes on Wednesday and then on Friday, as some people do.

01:38:01

I think it's a weakness on my part, in the sense that I, therefore, am not able to turn my sermons immediately into books, which other people are able to.

01:38:15

But I find that that's me, as it were, with my catapult with three pebbles of stones, like David, rather than my putting on Saul's armor.

01:38:30

So that's what I would say with respect to my preaching. What was the other question that was asked? Was the end?

01:38:36

He says, other than a clear picture of the gospel, what is the most important thing to you in preaching and teaching?

01:38:47

Yeah, I think, first of all, that I would agree with the person asking the question.

01:38:53

I think, for me, we preach Christ. I think it's vital.

01:38:59

I'm not simply giving people rules and regulations. I'm not just giving them warnings. I'm not just trying to encourage them.

01:39:07

I always want to make sure that I'm preaching Christ.

01:39:13

How does Christ come into this? Is this taking people to Christ?

01:39:19

Is this people taking people from Christ, in terms of, you know, he has died.

01:39:24

These are the benefits of salvation that we ought to be rejoicing in. So I think, for me, the whole

01:39:32

Bible is about Christ, in that sense. So the next thing beyond that is clearly the help of the

01:39:42

Spirit. You know, being prayerful in preparation and being prayerful in delivery.

01:39:49

You're standing, or better still, I'm standing between dying men and women and the

01:39:57

Holy God, who must assign them where they must be for all eternity.

01:40:04

And I know that in my own strength, I cannot dissuade sinners.

01:40:11

Even those that are saved, I cannot, as it were, wrestle their dying sins from them.

01:40:19

But with the help of the Spirit, it can be done, and consequently, absolute dependence upon him.

01:40:27

Perhaps if there was a third element I would bring out, is that I would want to preach in a way that leaves people with the

01:40:37

Bible. In other words, it's not so much my clever words and tying together heart -rending illustrations, but I really want people to go home saying, that passage has come alive to me.

01:40:54

You know, I can go back to the text and I can see what God wants me to know and therefore to do.

01:41:03

So in that sense, I'm deliberately an expository preacher.

01:41:09

And even when I'm given a topic, I always want to go to that text that primarily deals with that topic and try my best to simply expound the text.

01:41:20

I think those would be the three main elements. The first, the gospel, which the person asking has already handled.

01:41:28

The second, dependence on the Spirit. And the third, ensuring that I get out of the way and the

01:41:36

Word of God meets the people of God. Thank you, P .J. You have won a free copy of the book,

01:41:43

Pastoral Preaching, thanks to our friends at Langham Partnership. So please make sure we have your full mailing address there in Texas so that cvbbs .com

01:41:54

can ship that out to you. That is cvbbs .com,

01:42:02

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Services. We thank Todd and Patty Jennings for always shipping out our winners of books,

01:42:09

Bibles, DVDs and everything else that our listeners win by submitting questions out to them at no cost to our audience and at no cost to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

01:42:19

Let's see, we have an anonymous listener who says, the church where I am a member typically exclusively uses the method of topical preaching from the pulpit.

01:42:36

Is that wrong or is it just a matter of opinion? All right, now that's a relevant question because that's something

01:42:46

I have deliberately addressed in pastoral preaching.

01:42:53

That's the most common form of preaching in Africa and I'm concerned about it, not because it's wrong in terms of being sinful but it limits you as a preacher often to what you already know.

01:43:17

It doesn't help you to grow in your knowledge of God's Word because you're constantly thinking, okay, what is it that I want to say and then which passage can

01:43:30

I go through? Whereas if you say to yourself, I'm going to preach say through 2

01:43:37

Chronicles or I'm going to preach through Ephesians, what tends to happen is that as you are working through the book or through a large section of a book, you are also learning and consequently you are constantly growing in your knowledge of the

01:43:59

Word of God and that's something that I certainly seek to encourage those that are pastors.

01:44:10

But also secondly, what it does to God's people is that it gives them a more well -rounded body of God's truth because all of us have our one -string banjos that we would like to play.

01:44:27

It ties in with the kind of personalities that we are. So when a pastor allows the

01:44:37

Bible to be the one that is determining his preaching, he ends up dealing with other doctrines and truths in the

01:44:49

Bible that are not necessarily his hobby horse. And so it gives the believer that sits before him, listening to him, a more well -rounded faith.

01:45:04

For instance, there are pastors who, by personality, they just want to rebuke what is wrong and they end up with a church that is full of people that are just angry all the time.

01:45:18

You know, they're always sniffing air. They've taken on something of their pastor's characteristic.

01:45:31

But if he was doing an expositional approach, he himself would have his rough edges rounded off and God's people under him would end up with a more well -rounded belief system.

01:45:46

So that's what I would say. It's not wrong, but I would still encourage pastors who major in topical preaching to instead consider a more expository approach.

01:46:02

Yes, and I'm sure that you would have no problem with a church or a pastor who is routinely involved in expository preaching, going verse by verse and chapter by chapter throughout the

01:46:17

Bible, week by week, who will interrupt that series, like for instance, to have a topical message on something that is happening perhaps in the

01:46:27

United States or anywhere in the world where that church may happen to be, to address some kind of an issue that is a very urgent issue, or even, you know, in regard to the birth of Christ or the resurrection of Christ or something like that.

01:46:41

Yes, yes. I would certainly encourage a more sort of textual approach even then, so that God's Word speaks for itself, rather than someone jumping here, there, everywhere.

01:46:56

I mean, I do it myself. For instance, the book I was speaking about that's come out as Foundations for the

01:47:05

Flock, it's very evident that I was using a topical approach, and I did it not as my usual Sunday ministry.

01:47:14

I do it, in fact, I still am doing it. I do it on a Saturday, a whole day, and it's because I would like to provide room for the church members to ask questions as we are dealing with topics.

01:47:30

So the expository is more the sort of long haul, but every so often, yes.

01:47:36

I mean, you are around the birth of Christ, around Christmas, you want to do that, you are around Easter period, you want to deal with the resurrection or the death of Christ, and so on and so forth.

01:47:49

So you may need to handle topics from time to time. Well, thank you very much, Anonymous.

01:47:55

If you want to give me your full name and mailing address, of course, off the air, you will receive a free copy of Pastoral Preaching, and thank you very much for joining us on the program today.

01:48:06

We have another anonymous listener who says, can you distinguish between teaching and preaching?

01:48:14

I am a member of a church where our pastor seems to be more fond of lecturing than any kind of passionate delivery of a gospel proclamation, and I was wondering if you think that this is a matter of personal style or if there is an important difference?

01:48:36

Good question. The best way for me to do it, to answer that, is that the preaching must have teaching by way of content.

01:48:48

It must be giving light. So in that sense,

01:48:53

I would love to have a person filling a pulpit regularly who satisfies my mind by giving me truth.

01:49:05

However, as the questioner rightly points out, that's not sufficient.

01:49:14

Right across the Bible, from the prophets of the Old Testament to the apostles in the

01:49:20

New Testament, you can't miss the fact that preaching was not simply a conveyance of facts.

01:49:29

There was a warmth that went with it, and that's something we mustn't lose.

01:49:38

I think it's Lloyd -Jones who defines preaching as theology coming through a man who is on fire, and I think that's correct.

01:49:50

We need to have both. We need to have both heat and light, and right across history, we're now outside the

01:49:59

Bible, right across history, wherever you have had great preaching, you have had both heat and light.

01:50:10

I mean, one of the same ones that's doing its rounds at the moment on the internet with,

01:50:17

I think it's done like 5 million hits by now, is the same one that Paul Washer preached that has since gotten the title

01:50:26

Shocking Message, which is not his title, but someone gave it to it, gave it to the same one.

01:50:35

If you listen to it, you can see that there is truth, but it's truth coming through a man who is on fire, and so it ought to be both.

01:50:45

Now, granted, if your pastor has a shortcoming in one area or the other, you don't kick him out of the pulpit.

01:50:55

You just have to recognize that there's a deficiency and pray that perhaps there will be someone preaching alongside him who will then counterbalance that deficiency so that between the two men or three or four men that might be occupying the pulpit, you are having a little more of a balance in terms of the delivery of God's Word.

01:51:22

Amen. And of course, you can have men who are behind pulpits very passionately preaching nonsense or falsehood, or you can even have, which is unfortunately very common in fundamentalist circles, not always,

01:51:41

I'm not broad -brushing my fundamentalist brethren, but you can have pastors who are preaching to the choir and are very vociferously and passionately preaching against sins that are not typically found within their congregations.

01:51:59

They're preaching about the sins that are existing outside in the world. Out there. Right. But we'll thank you,

01:52:05

Anonymous, also. If you give me your full name and full mailing address, you will get a free copy of this book,

01:52:12

Pastoral Preaching, by our guest, Dr. Conrad M. Bayway. Let's see here, we have

01:52:20

Christian in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, and Christian says,

01:52:30

Do you believe that every sermon, even if its main topic isn't the gospel, should include the gospel somewhere?

01:52:41

Yes, but I need to explain what I mean by that yes. Um, it's the fact that the gospel is, in terms of its center, is about Jesus Christ, his person, his death on the cross, and the need to respond through repentance and faith.

01:53:04

Now, if we limit ourselves to that, then we're thinking of the gospel evangelistically.

01:53:09

But I think, as a pastor, I must do much more than that.

01:53:15

I must think of the gospel in its broader sense. And let me try and explain.

01:53:23

For instance, if I'm preaching against, say, sins of the mouth, so I'm going through the book of Proverbs, so we're dealing with gossips, slander, you know, lying, and so on and so forth, insults,

01:53:42

I shouldn't just end with, this is bad, this is bad, this is bad. I should clearly point to the blood of Christ for cleansing from sin.

01:53:54

But on the other hand, I may also be preaching to believers about getting along with one another, being peace -loving, for instance.

01:54:07

And even there, I should point, for instance, to Jesus as an example who came and brought peace among us through the cross.

01:54:19

So I'm constantly teaching around what

01:54:25

Christ has brought. I'm also able to say to people, through Jesus, the

01:54:34

Holy Spirit has been given, who is the one who baptizes us into the body of Christ.

01:54:42

So that we're not trying to manufacture unity, we are primarily called to maintain the unity of the

01:54:51

Spirit. But again, it's Christ has done this, and therefore we ought to be living out the fruit of what

01:55:01

He has done. So all I'm saying there, therefore, is that the personal work of Christ tends to touch on a lot of areas of life.

01:55:14

So another obvious example, I want men to love their wives. I will say as Christ loved the church, so there

01:55:23

He is an example rather than simply go to Him that He might wash away the sins of adultery, for instance.

01:55:37

But rather, those that haven't gone that far may also be failing in their marriages to love their wives.

01:55:44

So here is the height that has been set for us in Christ.

01:55:49

Wives the same way, obey your husband, submit to them as the church submits to Christ.

01:55:55

So again, I'm still in the context of Christ and His relationship with the church and vice versa.

01:56:03

So I think that I use the phrase we need to have an evangelical application and not necessarily an evangelistic one.

01:56:14

Great. Well, you have also won a free copy of the book Pastoral Preaching by Dr. Conrad M. Bayway, so please make sure you get us your full mailing address.

01:56:23

And we also have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who says,

01:56:28

I love listening to your preaching on YouTube and other places whenever I have the opportunity.

01:56:34

Who are your favorite preachers alive today? At least a small list. Yeah, yeah, that's a good one.

01:56:46

Well, I mean, clearly on the American side, I would list individuals like John Piper, Paul Washer, and John MacArthur.

01:56:59

Among them, there is Al Martin, who's still alive, aging at the moment, but still alive.

01:57:09

You know, these men have impacted my life over the years as I have listened to them.

01:57:17

And those would be names that some of you would know. Definitely my good friend,

01:57:24

Voddy Bokum. He almost always preaches me out of my socks. I'm glad he's preaching in my own church now.

01:57:36

Mark Dever is another real blessing to my soul.

01:57:42

He always stretches me in my understanding of God's word.

01:57:49

I love him to bits because of that. So those would be, as you can see, these are names that you're probably all familiar with on this side of the

01:58:02

Atlantic. America is blessed, I must say. I mean, you do have wrong stuff as well, but you're truly blessed with very, very good men, and may

01:58:16

God extend their own reach in ministry. Well, we are out of time,

01:58:22

Conrad. I thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule while you are here traveling in the

01:58:28

United States. I am looking forward so eagerly to hear and see you preach at the

01:58:35

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals Conference, the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology in the

01:58:41

Bryn Pennsylvania area at Proclamation Presbyterian Church. And of course, I know that our brethren in the

01:58:47

Michigan area are going to be delighted to know that you are also preaching at the

01:58:53

First Christian Reformed Church in Byron Center, Michigan. If anybody wants more details about this, go to alliancenet .org,

01:59:00

alliancenet .org, click on Events, and then click on the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology, and all the information that you need for both locations will be there.

01:59:09

If you want more information about our guests, Conrad Mbewe, go to conradmbewe .com, conradmbewe .com,

01:59:16

and Mbewe is spelt M as in Michael, B as in boy, E -W -E .com, conradmbewe .com.

01:59:23

I can't wait to fellowship with you again, brother, and hear you preach. Thank you. Thanks a lot, brother, and thanks for having me on your program.

01:59:31

I really appreciate it. Oh, my pleasure. And I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who wrote in questions, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater