June 24, 2024 Show with Dr. Joe Boot & Dr. James R. White on “Racism: What It Really Is & Who Is Really Guilty of It” PLUS “A Review of Chris Arnzen’s Interview w/ Robert Sungenis”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 24th day of June 2024, and I'm thrilled to have two returning guests on the program to discuss a very important issue.

We have joining us today Dr. Joe Boot, founder and president of the Ezra Institute for Contemporary Christianity. He's a Christian thinker, cultural apologist, author, and conference speaker, and we also have joining us my dear friend going back to the 1990s, Dr. James R. White, co-founder and director of Alpha Omega Ministries, a New Testament Greek scholar, Christian apologist, highly seasoned public debater, author, and conference speaker.

And today we are going to be addressing the theme racism, what is it really, and who is really guilty of it, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. First of all, Dr. Joe Boot, greetings brother.

It's great to be back, good to see you, and thanks for having me again on the show.

Oh my pleasure, and Dr. White, it's great to have you back on the show as well.

I appreciate it Chris, the only thing that I've got to complain about is you have me on with a British guy, and when you're on with a British guy and you've just got a plain old dry American accent, you sound dumb and slow, and the only advantage I have over Joe is I can speak a lot faster than he can, because Brits sort of struggle with that a little.

Bit.

So, but anyways, it's good to be back with you.

Well, Dr. Boot, if you could provide for us a working definition of racism, that may seem like a no-brainer, but it's obvious that in the 21st century, that word is thrown around every single day. If you are on the internet, or watching television, or listening to the radio, you hear that phrase racism all day long, and it's being very often, if in fact most often, slanderously used, and erroneously used.

In fact, if you criticize someone who's a homosexual, you're a racist, and for the life of me, I can't figure that out, but why don't you tell us where you're coming from with a working definition?

Well, you've surveyed the landscape there, rather interestingly, of the topic, but from a Christian standpoint, actually, I would say that the term racism has become next to useless. I think it should be abandoned for expressions like ethnic prejudice.

But what is generally meant by it is that external biological markers with human beings should be used to arrange and structure society in some measure, or in some way, so that we give opportunity and produce outcomes in society based on external biological markers.

And so, that tends to be what racism is, actually, it's to take somebody's external appearance and treat them differently because of their appearance. That's what it historically has concerned, its meaning, as you said, has morphed somewhat.

But that is fundamentally what most ordinary people mean or think they understand by racism, is to treat people differently based on external biological markers and characteristics.

And Dr. White, you want to add anything to that?

Well, no, I think from a Christian perspective, this requires us to go back and talk about man creating the image of God, the origination of various ethnic groups, the difference between ethnic group and race.

The sad thing is we live in a day where Darwin has so eviscerated Western culture of any meaningful anthropology, or really any basis for developing an anthropology, that the ridiculous use of the term that is just now constant in our society, it can't be refuted if you're standing on their worldview.

And it's another one of those situations where we see the necessity of thinking presuppositionally, arguing presuppositionally, and getting down to the foundational levels that it's becoming harder and harder to do, simply because so many of the people in our society have been crippled in having any type of worldview thought whatsoever by the public indoctrination system.

I don't call it an education system, it never really was, and it certainly isn't anymore. So all these issues are extremely important to us as we engage our culture and seek to be a prophetic voice to warn about the judgment that is to come.

And Dr. Boot, I'm assuming that some of what you were referring to in the fact that it is in some ways an illegitimate term to begin with, is the very fact that we have one race. It's the human race, Adam's race.

And we actually, those of us who are Christians, at least those of us who have delved a little bit more deeply than the average person, perhaps, into even the term, the term itself comes out of bigotry because those of non-white complexion, those with more melanin content, those with different facial features and hair textures and so on, were deemed to be of another race.

So this is something I'm assuming this is one of the reasons why we should eventually try to put an end to the use of this.

Precisely. I mean, James indicated that, that really we have to reframe the whole conversation around racism, which is why I much prefer the term ethnic prejudice, because from a biblical standpoint, there is only one race in Adam and Paul is explicit about that in Romans, in Acts chapter 17, actually at the Areopagus on Mars Hill, that all men are of one blood.

And so a race consciousness really began to emerge sort of 16th, 17th century onward when, as nations that had been relatively geographically isolated in the West, the West began exploring and discovering various parts of the world again.

Sometimes parts of the world were being discovered by the West for the first time. And as these discoveries of people groups were being made, oftentimes peoples who'd been untouched by Christianity, not only did a kind of race consciousness begin to emerge, but a sort of hierarchical view of of people, groups or races with that.

And that wasn't just the sort of white, black, yellow. Idea, the the Mongoloid, Negroid, Caucasoid sort of rather arbitrary European classification. There was actually the dividing up of the different European peoples into Alpine, Mediterranean and Nordic and so on.

And these were seen as races. And as James mentioned, Darwinism sort of put this on steroids. So it took a sort of primordial view of race and then put it on steroids with an inherently racist. I mean, the descent of man by Charles Darwin is an inherently racist doctrine because it basically says that human beings have.

Multiple progenitors, I mean, that's the basic idea that the that different people groups are closer to pre pre hominid, so-called pre hominid ancestors than others. And so, for example, from very early on, aboriginals were considered closer to the apes, for example, in Australia and were treated shamefully as a result.

So you had a kind of a philosophy that was developing there in Enlightenment Europe. And then Darwinism, with its racial ideology and its false view of man, its false anthropology, put put racial prejudice, ethnic prejudice on steroids and began and thought a few instead of having, of course, this affects the doctrine of salvation for us as Christians, because only those in Adam have access to salvation in the last Adam, the Lord Jesus Christ.

So this is actually a really significant issue because it affects how we think about the gospel itself.

Now, what was the primary factor that compelled you to want to address this specific topic.

Today? Well, I'm working on a new book at the moment called Think Christianly, which comes out in the new year. And one of my major topics in that book is the Christianity and racism for the very reason that you've talked about on the show, which is the word is so bandied around today and almost any sort of effort to defend Western civilization or talk about Christendom or justify the history of Europe or even talk about Western values gets you labeled a racist.

I mean, even even teaching traditional mathematics is apparently racist in some context now. So, you know, it's as it's a worldview issue, as James said, and it's it's become so ubiquitous in our society and in our culture.

Everybody's sort of talking about it and it's thrown around. People are terrified of being labeled racist. I felt it was a really important topic to address in in this new book, which is which is why when you asked me about the show, I thought, well, this would be an interesting topic to chat about a little bit.

And James, I know that you have been the victim of slander by people who have publicly called you a racist. I'm in fact, of course, I don't have an audience nearly as large as yours, but I was publicly called a racist in social media when a female minister discovered that I only invite men to my biannual Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio pastors lunches.

Somehow that equated racism. And when this woman made a point of posting a picture of my flyer with a red circle around men only, all of these feminists started to come out of the woodwork and and some of them were calling me a racist and so on.

But this is really a tool, is it not, Dr. White? That shuts down conversation, it's like intended to it's intended by the accuser, the one slandering to rob their opponent of any worth of having something to say that's of value.

Am I making sense there?

You are. I just it only works, though, with people who. Emote rather than think, and that that is a large portion of the younger generation, unfortunately, and that's what they've been taught to do is to when they hear a term that creates a specific emotion, then that emotion stops any other any other thought.

You don't listen to what someone's saying. You don't analyze the factuality of their presentation along those lines. So it has a limited audience. And one thing that we should be doing within the church is making sure that that our people are.

I guess we'd have to put it that we are, in a sense, trying to undo the damage that the world does regularly with those who are coming into the place of worship and reestablish a meaningful way of thought.

So I wasn't aware of Joe's upcoming book. He's he's still a young man. I'm I'm so much older than he is. And so he still has the has the energy to be writing these things. I've I've got one little book that that I've had I've been tinkering with for a while.

And I tell you, when you're you know, I end up preaching Sunday because Jeff Durbin, my fellow pastor, he adopted these creamy girls, these two creamy girls that were going to be aborted. But instead, they adopted them.

And one of them has just been diagnosed with cerebral palsy because of various problems she had. And he spent three days in children's hospitals. So best thing I can do for him is I take Sunday and preach.

And so when you when you've got that kind of stuff going on and then doing the dividing line and the debates and things like that, getting books written really takes a lot of more effort than a lot more energy than I have these days.

It's it's sad. But as it may, I love the title Thinking Christianly, which which said with the British accent sounds so much better than we say. Though I've got to admit, Joe, I'm sorry. You spent a little bit too much time in Canada.

It's sort of are you getting some of the good British element of it back? Because, you know, that Canadian part just sort of I don't know, the Canadian British combination, just I'm not sure that really does you as much good.

And for those of our listeners who don't know, Dr. Booth moved back to the United Kingdom.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I should mention, at least I think I'm still one of the fellows of the Institute. Maybe after this interview, I'll get a little a little note about that, ending that. But I feel like I can sort of pick on him because he's sort of the boss man.

And so he has to he has to put up with us little minions doing our thing. But seriously, going going back to the topic, it really is an issue of how we think. And this topic is is an illustration of the fact that.

One of the greatest challenges that most believers have who want to be salt and light, they want to they want to be out there speaking the truth is that secularism, it literally rots the brain. It rots the way we think we were meant to think.

After the thoughts of our creator and once you are absolutely convinced, you know, you don't have a creator and your thoughts are no different from your emotions.

Wow.

It is really, really hard to communicate categorical thinking, logic, rules of logic, all these things that are necessary for a society to continue and to prosper. And so this is just a part of the attack upon language that we are seeing and we need to be teaching our children the value of language and the value of thinking God's thoughts after.

Dr. Boot, do you intend in your upcoming book to include this bizarre phenomenon where liberalism has really morphed into leftism and you have people who came out of the the liberal political and even religious movements who their parents and perhaps even they themselves when they were younger would promote the idea and this would really unite in many ways conservative and liberal Christians, especially if they were genuinely regenerate conservative Christians, that we are to be colorblind.

And this notion has in and of itself become racist in the minds of the leftist. How dare you say there should be no consideration of the distinction and the difference and the separateness of skin color, hair texture, music that one enjoys and foods that one enjoys eating and all this kind of thing that's wrapped up into the allegedly different races.

If you want to comment on that.

Well, of course, the idea behind the expression to be to be colorblind is not to say that we eviscerate the unique cultural contributions of different people groups. It's to say that we are equal in the eyes of God.

As we come to the Lord's table, we're equal. As we confront God's law, we are equally under the law and the judgment of God's law. And as we come to Christ, we're equally recipients of the gospel and in need of the gospel and of salvation.

So that has to do with, you know, it's like Lady Justice blindfolded famously is to say, you know, she's not going to regard anything other than truth and justice. That is what that's the benchmark. And whether you're rich or poor, black or white, tall or short, et cetera, et cetera, justice needs to be done.

There cannot be partiality. So that's what's behind that expression. There's a good motive behind that. Of course, the what what James has just talked about, which I think is is very important, is that even when you use expressions like that, which are clearly meant to convey that we should be we shouldn't be showing partiality on the basis of these external biological factors, the basis of a common discourse now in our society is gone.

And when the basis for a common discourse disappears, people don't debate and discuss. They scream at each other. They don't listen. They just it's a mob. It's a crowd. It's different mobs and groups sort of shouting and screaming at each other because the basis of a common discourse has eroded.

And the the reason that what you just said, Chris, doesn't go over with people or isn't not accepted and is called racist itself is because we haven't mentioned this yet. And I know on radio we don't want to get too technical and highbrow, but critical race theory, which is basically a branch of it's emerged from cultural Marxist thinkers who came out of the Frankfurt School, basically.

But it's a critical theory. Critical theories take a variety of forms and and there is critical race theory and critical race theory basically says that the the the the white man so-called biological marker, of course, ironically, is a structural oppressor and the structure of white society is inherently and irredeemably racist.

That's the that's the basic idea of it. And therefore, it doesn't matter what somebody like me or you or James says or even when we take the part of those who are struggling against ethnic prejudice, because there's another technical term standpoint epistemology, because we're only knowledge is basically purely rooted in your particular standpoint.

And so-called white people only get involved in helping members of the BIPOC community, that's black indigenous people of color, if it suits some purpose that they have. And so, you know, they can the only people who can be racist on this particular world view are white people.

So everything else is overlooked and the structure of our society is said to be inherently and irredeemably racist. So it doesn't matter that there's equality before the law or equality of opportunity or the whole idea of being colorblind.

That's irrelevant. That's all part of the broader structural oppression and racial justice is always on the horizon. It can never be actually achieved. So you must always be in constant revolution against the structural oppressor by making the structural oppressor the oppressed.

So you try and turn tables now very, very quickly. Obviously, it's absurd to make this about the white man, because white society or the whole idea of white society historically was utterly barbarous.

I mean, the Vikings were practiced human sacrifice before the Christian faith. We were total pagans. So a sort of white identity as sort of embedded in whiteness as such is as absurd as saying there's an Asiatic soul or an African soul, because it will totally depend on the religious commitment of that people group and the culture that's been built out around it.

So the real target of the critical theorists of critical race theory is not actually whiteness as such. It is the culture. It's the Christian culture that's been represented by Western Europe and North America for about 1500 years until there was a shift to the global south.

So the attack is on all of the institutions, structures, way of life of so-called white society, which was Christian society. The goal of the attack, which all critical theories are designed to liberate, so they're not actually truly critical theories unless they are designed to liberate people from some kind of structural oppression.

And so the idea is, with this critical race theory, is that you must liberate the BIPOC community, black indigenous people of color, from the oppression of whiteness and white supremacy or white privilege, these terms that people hear all of the time.

And so there is nothing that you and I or James can do to atone. No, no amount of penance, no amount of obeisance, no amount of falling down. And that's why the people who apologize most when they say when they're accused of racism end up the worse off, because there is no amount of penance that you can do.

No amount of sadistic burden bearing masochistic burden bearing that you can do to be released from the punishment for the crime of whiteness, which is actually really to do with the Christian worldview that shaped the Western world.

That's the issue you're up against.

And interestingly enough, you mentioned earlier that only in the left's paradigm, only white people can be racist. But that also, like most other things in their worldview, has morphed. And that's why you can be a racist if you're black.

But only if you are a conservative, heterosexual Christian. And even then, they will call you a white supremacist no matter what your skin color is.

Precisely. That's why a man is distinguished and as brilliant as Thomas Sowell, because he's a critic of Marxism, is called an Uncle Tom and a white supremacist, even though he's black, because it isn't actually ultimately about your skin color.

It's about your worldview. And if you're coming from a worldview that is influenced by Christianity, that's seen as essentially European, which in and of itself is ridiculous, because, of course, Christianity comes out of the Middle East and through North Africa, is in China and India before it's even in the West.

Nonetheless, none of that matters. History doesn't matter, because the goal is this Marxist liberation from the oppressive structures of the Christian faith.

We have to go to our first commercial break. And if you have a question for either of our guests, send it to ChrisArnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages.

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So go to royaldiadem .com and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and purchase some jewelry today. And we are now back with my guests, Dr. Joe Boot of the Ezra Institute and Dr. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

And before I continue with our theme on racism, I just want to make sure our audience knows that Dr. Joe Boot is my next keynote speaker for my next biannual free Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon, which will be held Thursday, June the 10th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania.

And not only is it mission-free and you're lunch-free, but everybody who attends will receive a very heavy sack of free brand-new books personally selected by me and donated by generous Christian publishers all over the United States and United Kingdom.

If you'd like to register for this free event, if you're a man in ministry leadership, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line. Also, the Future of Christendom Conferences is featuring Dr. Boot as one of their primary speakers the two days following.

That would be Friday, June 11th and Saturday, June 12th in the Lancaster, Pennsylvania area. And then on Sunday, he will be speaking at St. John's Reform Church, also in the Lancaster area. For more details on that conference and also that Sunday speaking engagement, go to futureofchristendom .org, futureofchristendom .org.

That is for the two-day conference. And for Dr. Boot's speaking engagement at St. John's Reform Church in the Lancaster area, go to allofchrist .org, allofchrist .org. And Dr. Boot, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for agreeing to be our keynote speaker for the next free Pastor's Luncheon for the very first time.

It's a real pleasure, Chris. I'm looking forward to it, and I appreciate the invitation to be with you.

And Dr. White, do you have any questions for Dr. Boot on this issue before I ask any of my own?

Oh, no. I thought we were actually working fairly well together, Chris. Would you like me to, you know, come up with another perspective here? I don't know. Actually, I was a little distracted there for a second.

I should mention the New York Times did an interview with my fellow pastor Jeff Durbin. They actually did a fairly decent job, which in and of itself should be major news in actually representing it. But evidently the Biden-Harris people have picked up on it.

And now Jeff Durbin is a Trump surrogate and all the rest of this kind of stuff. I just saw this hit. So I was like, oh, this is interesting. Jeff had to leave early yesterday while I was preaching because his little daughter, Piper, her blood sugar was spiking and he had to take her to the hospital and stuff.

And so he's probably still at the hospital. And meanwhile, they're going after him big time for comments he's made on the subject of abortion over the years. So it's amazing.

Go ahead.

No, it's just amazing what social media does. And I was looking at some of the comments and it really feeds back into what I was saying earlier. The comments aren't about the substance of what Jeff was saying.

It's about the emotional response to what Jeff was saying. And that's just it's very hard for me to deal with people like that. I don't know how they drive cars. It's with you, but they're extremely, extremely incoherent and inconsistent.

And so anyway.

Well, we do have a listener question who chooses to remain anonymous. Dr. Boot, I have friends who are woke and have adopted the same unbiblical and even heretical ideology that you have described. And yet they remain in all other ways, or at least most other ways, conservative and theologically reformed.

What is the best way, in your opinion and counsel, to break the ice with them to realize to make them realize that they need to repent of this?

Yeah, well, there are all kinds of issues that can be wedge issues. And I know that Dr. White is an expert in addressing all of these challenges and issues that are coming.

Oh, Dr. Boot for the reformed church.

I should add that very kind to me. Am I still with you?

Yes, but you are getting me.

You are.

Yes. Can you hear me?

Yes, I can hear you.

OK, you were just getting a little choppy. I'm going to turn my camera off in the event that that's too much bandwidth. But go ahead.

I was saying that James is very, very kind to me, but actually he's the he's the one who's longer in the tooth with with more experience and the somebody whose ministry I've looked up to for a long time.

And it's a pleasure and a privilege to have him as a fellow of the Ezra Institute. So I'm sure you'll have something to say on this subject. But I think that we have to show people that when you often times people don't realize that when you let a foot in the door like this, it's like pulling on the thread that one thread of a sweater.

Eventually, if you keep pulling on that, the whole sweater will unravel. And because there's a lack of coherent and consistent worldview, biblical worldview in the life of the Christian church today, very often people think that they can adopt or import or baptize actually philosophical perspectives that fall outside of the biblical paradigm, the biblical worldview, and think there won't be any damage.

And it's usually where people begin to cave is on these cultural pressure points. So they they start to cave or give ground on the sexuality issue or they start to cave or give ground on the identity issue or the the race issue.

And they start to adopt an essentially racist view of the world. As I've said, Christianity is inherently anti-racist because there is only one race. And that old division even of Jew and Gentile, Paul tells us in Ephesians 2, that where there was an ethno-national divide has been broken down.

Even there, of course, and we can perhaps talk about this a bit later, Israel was not an ethnic people as such, but a covenant people. Their unity was based around religious commitment, not ethnic heritage, because when they left Egypt, the Bible is very clear that they left a mixed multitude.

Egyptians left with them. Moses' father, Jethro, is not a Hebrew. Joseph marries an Egyptian. So Rahab, the prostitute, is in the line of Christ. So, you know, all of these things are known to us. So even Israel was not an ethnic people, but a covenant people.

And those things are very important to reiterate. So in Christ, these prejudices have been broken down. But the Pentecost is the great undoing, in many respects, of the curse of Babel. Babel was that moment when God confused the language of an idolatrous people that were refusing to obey his commands, to multiply to fill the earth and glorify God, turning creation into a God-glorifying culture.

They refused to do that. And instead, they were building themselves a tower to the heavens, which wasn't a skyscraper. It was a form of idolatrous worship, probably astral symbolism, worshiping demonic powers.

And it ended with God confusing the language. Well, at Pentecost, the nations of the known world who were in Jerusalem for worship, they were Jewish proselytes, heard the gospel in their own language.

And so that's what the gospel is about. And people need to remember that in the Christian church. If we're getting pressure to adopt these neo-Marxist ideologies and think we can import them into Christianity, we need to help people to say, look, look where this leads.

Look where this goes. If you follow the logic of this, it will actually destroy and pull apart the gospel itself.

Well, we have Barton in East Quag, Long Island, New York, who asks, Isn't it dangerous when we realize that we are becoming far more comfortable with people, even if they are outside of Christ, just because of the color of their skin rather than their faith?

This seems to be something that is applauded as being completely fine by some voices, and I emphasize the word some within the Christian nationalist movement, unless I am misunderstanding them. Do you have any comments on this?

Yeah, again, I'd be interested to hear James's thoughts on that, but I'm actually very glad that that question has been raised because that is an extremely important point. There is actually a ditch on both sides of the road here.

What James and I have been discussing primarily so far is what we would call, you know, this whole critical race theory is a constructionist view of race fundamentally, that your race is basically a social construct that's sort of culturally built.

And the primary emphasis, even though the strangely they talk about whiteness, which is a biological market, they're essentially constructivist, the left in their view of race, that it's white culture and structural oppression and the institutions of Western society that are the problem.

Now, what's happened is there has been a reaction to that. And it was inevitable, wasn't it, in many respects, Chris, that, you know, if you allow that kind of a worldview to penetrate so deep into Western society and you tell young people and you tell them, as James said earlier, through the education system that they're guilty, that their ancestors are all criminals and imperialists and colonial abusers and slave traders and so on, and you and you basically lay a guilt complex for all the world's ills onto one ethnic group, eventually that ethnic group is going to react or at least some members of it are.

And unfortunately, the other view that we can take, which is the ditch on the other side of the road, right down the middle of the road is the biblical view of the Kingdom of God. On one side, you've got the leftist constructionist view.

On the other side, you have an ethno-nationalist view or what I would call a primordial nationalist view, which basically says that people and place are in a kind of symbiosis, that they are at the core of your makeup as an individual.

The origin of this is a focus on particularity of peoples and it comes from 19th century Romanticism. And of course, this is where the Nazi doctrine came from, you know, blood and soil, people and place.

And in that symbiosis, a kind of right, a sort of inalienable right exists for that particular ethnic group to possess and insist on the possession of that space of land without any factoring in God at all.

I mean, when you look at the Bible, God says, well, no, the Canaanites don't have any right to that piece of land. I've been patient with them 400 years. I'm driving them out. And he said to Israel, it's a promised land.

But if you do the things that the Canaanites did, the land is going to spew you out as.

Well.

So the Bible doesn't know of any kind of inalienable right of one people, one ethnic people to possess a given area outside of the sovereign providence and justice and judgment of God. So the primordial nationalistic view is dangerous.

It goes beyond patriotism and speaking of the importance of Christian nations, because a Christian nation can consist of people of many ethnicities, but who worship Christ. And that's where the unity comes from.

You can have unity in diversity if the unity is built around the Lord Jesus Christ. That's exactly what Paul is teaching about the life of the church. There is neither slave nor free, barbarian or Scythian, male or female.

We are one in Christ. You can have diversity, yes, when there is a unity in Christ. So we should be able to. And America, of course, is a wonderful example of a nation that welcomes Christian people from around the world to come to America, to a city on a hill and build a new Christian society.

Canada was similar. And since World War Two, Britain has become, became quickly a place with the Windrush, the British Commonwealth, people from various parts of the world, many of them Christians. Now, that isn't a problem in a society because you can maintain unity of Christian faith in the midst of that diversity.

The problems come when you introduce radically different religious worldviews into that society that are at war with each other. Once you introduce that war, warfare principle at the worldview religious level, then you have the problem.