May 25, 2020 Show with Geoff Thomas on “James 5:14-16”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlyle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on Memorial Day, this 25th day of May, 2020.

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Yes, I did not take the day off for Memorial Day. I wanted to make sure

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I took advantage of the free time on my guest schedule because he has certainly become one of my favorite guests, and not only my favorite guest, but one of my favorite preachers of all time.

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His name is Jeff Thomas, who, beginning in 1965, served for over 50 years as pastor of Alfred Place Baptist Church of Aberystwyth, Wales, and today we are going to be addressing the epistle of James, chapter 5, 14 through 16, and then tomorrow he'll be joining us again,

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God willing, Tuesday, May 26th, and our theme tomorrow, to see if I, to test my memory here, because he just told me right before we went on the air, the relevance of the prophet

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Nahum in the 21st century. Was I right on that? Quite exactly right.

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Great. Well, it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Jeff Thomas.

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Thank you. It's a delight to be here. It's an anticipation and a sense of responsibility and a prayerful looking to the

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Lord to help me to say things that are helpful to the people and convicting and true, and there we are.

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The Lord has helped me every time I've been on the program in the past. You always do an excellent job, and as we always do, because there may be many people hearing you for the very first time who didn't hear your other interviews or have not heard you on sermon audio or at Banner of Truth conferences, but tell us about Alfred Place Baptist Church, where you retired as pastor for over 50 years, but it is now being pastored by your grandson.

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Yeah, that's right. It's the 150th anniversary of the building, and I'm giving a lecture on that in November on a

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Monday night, and they're having a weekend of celebrations for 150 years, and they seem united and encouraged, even though we can't meet there on a

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Sunday like all the churches in Wales are like that in Britain at the present time, and we are sitting in our chairs and speaking into a screen and zooming out to individuals who've got the zoom to pick it up.

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They're very strange days, and that's happening in Aberystwyth, and the students, of course, the university is closed down.

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There are no examinations. Everyone has been sent home. So one of my grandsons, he's going to be graduating in a month or two, and he has to wait until next year for the graduation exercises for the commencement, and then he's going back to work for the

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InterVarsity Group. He's going to give himself a year evangelizing on the campus of the university amongst the 10 ,000 students that live there.

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And so there we are. The work of the gospel goes on. How little we know about the kingdom of God, Chris.

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And there we are. I've just opened a little window on you of a small town on the

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Irish Sea and a church there that seeks to serve the

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Lord in times of plague. Now, do you have any idea from those in government when you'll be permitted to gather for corporate public worship again?

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No, we don't. Wow. Schools are opening next week now, and parents are nervous.

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Some parents say, no, we're not going to send our children back, and others are keen.

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And there's no real scientific expert that can speak with absolute authority on this theme, that it's all right or it's not all right.

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And they're not united among themselves. So we applaud all the way and look to the

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Lord. That's the position of most people today.

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Well, I want to make sure that our listeners have the website so they can investigate

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Alford Place Baptist Church so that in the event that they live near there, we do have listeners in Wales, or they are vacationing there, or they have family, friends, and loved ones there.

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It's alfordplacechurch .org .uk. alfordplacechurch .org

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.uk. And even though you are a Welshman, you've been spending recently most of your time in London, England, am

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I right? Yes, that's right. Well, I'm going to give our listeners our email address.

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If you'd like to join us with a question of your own on the epistle of James, specifically chapter 5, 14 through 16, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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chrisarnson at gmail .com. And as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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I'm going to read this segment, or this portion of the epistle of James, and then we'll have you let us know what you want to highlight from that and exegete from that and bless us with.

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We begin in 14 of chapter 5. Is any among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church, and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the

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Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the

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Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.

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Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed.

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The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

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And if you can proceed from here, where you wanted to highlight from this very well -known and precious...

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Ah, yeah, they're fascinating words, Chris, aren't they?

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And they are saying, first of all, there's an appropriate response to every condition of the

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Christian. Is anyone in trouble? They should pray.

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Anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. Anyone sick? Call for the elders of the church.

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No one should be stuck in a rut. God never hams us into a situation in which every alternative before us is a wrong under sinful alternative.

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There's always a way out, a way that pleases God, a way that honors

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Him. It might be a way with self -sacrifice and pain, but there's a way that glorifies

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God. And so, nobody in the congregation should be complaining that, well, we've got nothing to do, and now we can't even go to church any longer, the buildings are closed, and so on.

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No, there's always a right response.

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James selects these three scenarios, the Christian in trouble, and that happens.

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It always does happen. Hardships, persecutions, nakedness, famine, the sword, for your sake we're killed all the day long, we're considered a sheep for the slaughter.

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That was at a time of enormous blessing and great growth, and there were trials at that time.

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And anyone who says they don't have trials, I remember a man, he was called up to serve in the army.

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And when he returned home, his friends in church said, well, was it difficult to be a

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Christian in the army? No, no, not at all, he said. It wasn't, they said.

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No, I didn't tell them I was a Christian, he said. He was a secret disciple, wasn't he?

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The problem with that is that it can't last. Either secrecy is going to kill the discipleship, or the discipleship is going to kill the secrecy.

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Because there are going to be troubles of many kinds, and then you pray.

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That's, it's so obvious, but oh, it's so essential, it's under, if there was anyone, you would think, who didn't need to pray, it was

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Jesus of Nazareth. I mean, he had power over demons, power over creation, the winds and waves, he had power over disease, power over death.

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And you'd think, well, all he'll do is say a word, or will it? It only takes a touch of the will that can, and the dead are raised.

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That's what we believe. But he got up early in the morning, and he went, and he prayed, and he taught his disciples to pray, and they pray in times of trouble, the psalmists,

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Psalm 129. They greatly oppressed me from my youth. Psalm 140.

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Rescue me, O Lord, from evil men. Protect me from men of violence. 141.

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O Lord, I call to you, come quickly to me. If anyone in trouble, he should pray.

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And then, ah, then the very reverse. The happy Christian, is anyone happy?

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Let him sing songs of praise. There's a wonderful Scottish Christian called

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Lachlan Mackenzie, in a great revival in the Scottish Highlands, and he made much of the joys of the

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Christian life. And the title of his life, and his works, is

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The Happy Man. And he was a living testimony that religion can make a person happy.

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And this is what he'd say. Happy is the life of that man who believes firmly, prays fervently, walks patiently, works abundantly, lives holy, dies daily to sin, watches his heart, guides his senses, redeems his time, loves the

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Lord Jesus Christ, and longs for glory. That's a picture of a happy man.

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And what should a happy man, a happy Christian do? He should sing, I remember, a scene

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I'll never forget. It was a Monday morning in Philadelphia, at Westminster Family. I was walking along an empty corridor, and who turned round the bend and came towards me, but one of the greatest theologians in the world,

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John Murray. John Murray was magnificent. He was very intelligent, and he was a saint.

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And he stopped, and he saw me, and he smiled, and he said, How are you, Mr. Thomas? How are your mother and father now back in Wales?

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Oh, you're a Welshman, aren't you? And you love to sing? Do you know, he said to me, we learned a new psalm tune yesterday in church.

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And he sang it to me. Isn't that incredible? With his old croaky voice, he sang with a benign smile on his face.

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He sang a new tune that he'd learned to one of the old psalms. Oh my, is any happy?

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Then let him sing. He was a happy man. You know, what we are told, he put a new song in my mouth.

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A hymn of praise to our God, Psalm 40. And when the Ethiopian was converted and was baptized,

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Luke could have said many things about him. He went on his way repenting. Yes, he went on his way believing.

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He went on his way witnessing. But he didn't say any of those things. You know what he said. He went on his way rejoicing.

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And the apostle says, rejoice in the Lord always.

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Again, I say to you, rejoice. And if we feel that we don't have anything to rejoice in, we can always rejoice in where we are not.

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We are not under judgment. We're not being condemned. And it's lovely when friends of mine, they sent their children to a

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Christian school, and this Christian school was great. And it taught the old hymns.

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And she said she would be cooking and cleaning, and her little boy would be on his bicycle.

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And what was he singing? Holy, holy, holy Lord God almighty. Early in the morning my song shall rise.

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He taught it in school, and he loathed it. And he sang it.

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If anyone is happy, let him sing. We are told, let him sing.

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And then he says this proper response for sick

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Christians. Is any of you sick? Call for the elders of the church to pray over him.

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Anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. The prayer offered in faith.

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Make the sick person well. The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, then he will be forgiven.

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The prayer of faith will save the sick, and so on. It's a fascinating statement, and that's the heart of the dispute.

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And the questions that people ask, we have a certain kind of illness.

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And we want fellowship. We don't want a pity party to be sulking there.

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We call for our friends to come in, and they gather with us, and they pray with our wives and our children, and they assure us of a congregation that's concerned for us at that time.

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And that is generally the picture that we have here. The Roman Catholics have got extreme unction.

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But you know, my Catholic friends, that oil actually prepares people for death, not recovery.

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But this is an anointing, which is then optional, which is up for you.

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You take the initiative. They don't say, we are coming in. You call them.

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You say, I need you. I don't like this isolation in my sick bed, and I'd love to know of your affection for me and your concern for me.

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And the oil is a symbol of the Holy Spirit. I don't think it refers here to medicine.

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I think it is a symbol. Like the bread is a symbol of the broken body, and the wine is a symbol of the shed blood, and the waters of baptism are a symbol of being washed and cleansed, and the oil there.

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I would think it means then the

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Holy Spirit coming upon us at a time of special need in our lives with healing.

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I think that is the basis of that.

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In our church, I think there were three times in the 50 years that we anointed someone with oil.

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There was a woman missionary, and she was in Bethlehem, a midwife, and she was there 30, 40 years, and then she had bowel cancer, and she said, will you come and anoint me with oil and pray?

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She was home on furlough, and of course we did.

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There could be no harm done by doing that, and it was something that she'd thought about for a while, and we did it, and wonderfully, she went back for another 10 years.

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She lived until she was 80. But there was another case then, and it was with Stuart Olliot's brother, who was a deacon with me,

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Stephen, and Stephen had a very bad cancer, and we went and we prayed, and then it was just another month, and Stephen passed away.

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So it is all under the will of God, isn't it? There is no text in Scripture that God promises, if you are ill,

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I will heal you. There's no text. There's a text that all things will work together for our good, and there's a text that God will supply all our needs, and there's a text that says that he'll never leave us nor forsake us, and there's a text that says he will raise us up in the last day, and he will give us a new body, a glorified body.

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Lots of those texts, but there isn't a text that he says we'll always infallibly be healed of every illness, and people who try to say that are real mischief makers, because then they say, you didn't have enough faith, that's why.

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It was your fault, and they compound the pain and the grief that you and the family are having by saying, and you brought it upon yourself, because you didn't have great faith, and I despise that teaching, and I do believe that there'll come a time when there'll be an illness, and God won't heal me, because my span has come to an end.

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The appointment has come that he has told me about. It's appointed unto man once to die, and that's going to come to me, and I will say even so,

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Father, for so it seems good in my sight. Now, I think you very rightly warned against those extreme

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Pentecostals who say that you will certainly be healed if your faith is adequate, which is a heresy, but at the same time, don't you think that we who are

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Reformed, because of the fact that we never want those who witness us being ambassadors for Christ and perhaps in a worship service or perhaps evangelizing out in the community, we never want to be associated with them, and sometimes

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I think we go overboard to distance ourselves from the supernatural, from healing, from things like that.

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Now, I realize there are no faith healers today, but I believe God certainly heals, and I think one of the things that's evident in the fact that we who are

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Reformed are, I think, going overboard in our distancing ourselves from Charismatics and Pentecostals is that I think that this practice here that's outlined in the

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Epistle of James is very rarely practiced by Reformed people. Yeah, yeah,

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I do believe that. I do believe that. But if you look at Scripture, you think of Jesus in the

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Garden of Gethsemane, and he's praying that the cup will pass from him. Did he have faith?

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Well, the Spirit came upon him without measure. He had illimitable faith, and he's trusting in God, and he's praying, is it possible?

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Can I be spared this pain? That's one great proof,

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Dex, isn't it, that these people who say, ah, it's because of your lack of faith, or you think of David again, 2

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Samuel 12, 16, he's praying for the life of his own child with all his heart and all his might, and yet the baby dies.

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Or you think of the Apostle Paul praying for the removal of the thorn in his flesh, some painful, humiliating, irritant.

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He could describe all the mighty benefits that would come to him if only

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God would remove that thorn. How much more useful, how much happier he would be.

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Paul describes the thorn in that passage, weaknesses, infirmities, hardships, persecutions, difficulties.

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That's what they were, and the only answer then, after he's prayed earnestly, in the

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Spirit, with the power of trust, absolutely submitting himself to God, was, oh, my grace is sufficient for thee.

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You will do all I want you to do in your life by the grace that I will give you with the thorn.

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I'm not going to take that thorn away. Well, we have to go to our first station break right now.

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If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com, chrisarnson at gmail dot com, and as always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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U .S .A. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

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Don't go away. We'll be right back with Jeff Thomas after these messages from our sponsors. We are excited to announce another new member of the

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In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the

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Lord like this, I praise you, because I am fearfully and wonderfully made, and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well.

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He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what

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God has designed, and he has erupted into praise. In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust

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God's design. And once we do, there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him.

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When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness, which can be very serious.

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Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great

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God like the psalmist did? May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

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When will it end? Why do disasters like this happen? How do we deal with anxiety, fear, and the like?

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in. Our guest today is

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Jeff Thomas. Not only today, but tomorrow, the 26th of May as well.

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But today we are addressing James chapter 5, verses 14 through 16.

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And this is in regard to those among us who are sick calling upon the elders for the anointing of that oil.

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And if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N gmail .com. And please, as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside of the

37:33

USA. Only remain anonymous if the question involves a personal and private matter.

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Let's see here. We do have a listener in eastern

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Suffolk County, Ronald. Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York. Ronald says,

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How do you answer the fact that this text in James seems to be a promise that healing will occur, and yet, as you said earlier, we all know that it is

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God's will that determines whether one is healed or not physically, and therefore, there seems to be some confusion attached to this.

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Here we are. We are reading about what is happening in the

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New Testament when there were apostles about who had miraculous gifts of healing.

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We are reading about it at a time when there were not only miracles of deliverance, but miracles of judgment.

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So you have Ananias and Sapphira, and they are viewed with suspicion.

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They hear that the money they said they received from selling the land was actually far more than what they declared.

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And so they are tried in the company of the church and the apostles.

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They are asked about their sin, and they lie again.

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And a miracle of judgment comes, and they die. The apostle is saying here, if you confess your sin, you will be healed.

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You won't die. The church in Corinth, there were people in that church who were misbehaving.

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There were people who were sick amongst them, and some slept, some died, because they were abusing the

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Lord's Supper. They were coming carelessly, godlessly. And again, there were miracles of judgment taking place.

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Now, the great exhortation here is for us to go with a repentant spirit, to go in our sickness, to go always to God and acknowledge that God is justified in all

40:45

He does, and that God is right when He judges, and God is powerful and merciful when

40:53

He heals. So I link then these verses at the end of James 5.

41:02

I link them to a time that we don't see today. We haven't got apostles that we can summon to come.

41:11

In Miletus, in Malta, all the sick in Malta are healed by the

41:18

Apostle Paul. We don't have someone we can bring from Brazil or China or America to Britain who can perform at 7 .30

41:31

tomorrow night and can heal all the sick. Those were special apostolic gifts, but I'd better be sure that we are in our sickness carrying a spirit of repentance, that if it's cirrhosis of the liver, if it's a sexually transmitted disease, we know we've abused our bodies and judgment has come upon us before that, and we've got to confess and we've got to end those sins if we are going to be healed.

42:13

And so there is that sort of strain in the background of the link between our sinning and the judgments of God and the deliverance of God when we have a spirit of repentance.

42:34

I think those are factors that we have to bring into consideration in answering your fascinating question.

42:42

Well, thank you, Ronald. And if you could now, Jeff, move on to the other highlights from this text that you wanted to share with us today.

42:51

Yes. James says, the

42:58

Lord will raise him up. He says that. Who is healing the man? Is it the elders?

43:04

It is great technology? It is the Lord, where two or three are gathered together.

43:09

They've come in and they are there. And if he sinned, it will be forgiven.

43:17

If he says, in other words, there was no infallible knowledge, the sick man thought of all his past sins and wondered whether this sickness was the

43:29

Lord disciplining him. And so he sent for the elders, and they talked with him, and they wanted to know.

43:36

And he says, well, I've not been perfect, but I don't defy

43:42

God. I'm anxious to please God in all

43:48

I say. And my hopes for eternal life are not mine, but in the

43:55

Savior, who will one day raise me up. That's my hope.

44:01

And so they've heard him, they are satisfied with his spiritual condition, and they pray, and they anoint him with oil, and he has the assurance that his sin is truly forgiven.

44:14

The only way that the Christian can consider past sins are that they are forgiven sins.

44:25

And it's the devil that will give us a kit, a diving kit, that will send us into the deepest sea to look for the sins that he has cast there.

44:41

He won't do that. Our sins have been removed from us, and he will remember them no more.

44:51

And so that is the situation in which a

44:56

Christian lives. But if a Christian is constantly defying

45:02

God, and is then living in such a way that then through obesity and immorality and excess and drunkenness, disease will come into his life, he's got to repent of that.

45:21

He must do that. So James then applies this to us, and he is saying, keep short accounts with God.

45:32

If you're sinning, don't go on sinning. Much of this sinning then has brought

45:38

God's judgment of sickness upon some of you. So he's exhorting them to confess their sin to their neighbors.

45:48

And Chris, we are really very poor in this whole area of confessing our sins, aren't we?

45:58

Moody's life now, Moody was a very holy man. When his sons were boys and they were living in Northfield in Massachusetts, Moody was anxious to have a lawn like the ones he'd come across when he visited and preached in England.

46:15

And one day his boys, Paul and Will, let the horses loose from the barn, and the horses went up and down and trampled all over the grass and ruined this cherished lawn.

46:27

And he was so annoyed, and he lost his temper with them for what they had done.

46:32

And then, ah, he regretted it. And he did what James tells us to do here that night as they lay in bed.

46:42

They heard his footsteps coming up the stairs, and he knelt alongside them as they lay in bed.

46:49

And he put one hand on each head, and he said to them, please, please, boys,

46:56

I want you to forgive me. That wasn't the way Christ taught us.

47:04

And there was another, when he was teaching a class at the Moody College, and some of the students interrupted him, and he was irritated, and he snapped at a young man.

47:14

At the end, he paused, and he said, friends, I want to confess before you all that I made a great mistake at the beginning of this lecture.

47:22

I answered my young brother down here so foolishly. I asked God to forgive me.

47:27

I asked him, please forgive me, Lord. And he went to the young man and took him by the hand.

47:35

That's what James is telling us here to do, that our spiritual condition, our health of mind, of affections, is dependent on us having a forgiving spirit.

47:53

The Lord said, when you pray, you say, and forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.

48:04

And we must be forgiving men and women, and we must be men and women who confess our sins.

48:14

Healing comes in repentance for defying sins.

48:20

A praying church is a healthy church. So, you're in trouble, pray.

48:29

The elders come to pray over you. Believing prayer saves the sick.

48:34

Pray for each other. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

48:41

The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. It's all about the importance at times of need, at times of sickness, in that we are prayerful, confessing men and women.

48:59

Well, we have another listener who has a question for you. B .B. in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

49:07

B .B. says, when the scriptures teach us that if we are truly repentant and cry out to the

49:15

Lord for forgiveness, that He will not remember our sins, some people speak as if Jesus actually has amnesia and really doesn't remember us making or committing those sins.

49:29

But isn't it just that He will not hold those sins against us rather than that He forgets them?

49:38

It is that, yes, they do not determine

49:44

His relationship with us tonight. He is loving and merciful and pitiful towards us and He doesn't say, well,

50:00

I've stopped behaving like that because of your behavior, because of what you've done.

50:10

He doesn't hold our sin against us. That sin of ours, week by week, year by year, doesn't determine then our relationship with Him.

50:25

We are His sons. It determines the closeness of our fellowship, doesn't it?

50:32

It determines when we begin to pray these things that we've done, they come to our minds almost immediately and we have to say,

50:45

I'm sorry, Lord, I'm such an inconsistent Christian, please forgive me.

50:52

And so the closeness of fellowship is marred by our sin, but the relationship, beloved, now we'll be the sons of God.

51:04

And it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when

51:09

He appears, we shall be like Him, we shall see Him as He is. And everyone that has this hope in Him purifies himself as he is pure.

51:18

The great exhortations of John about our relationship with God, our hope in God.

51:29

So, yes, you're quite right. We have to just not plead the amnesia of God, but plead the promise that He's not going to use our guilt and our faults and our mistakes to change

51:53

His promises of comprehensive mercy and that we still have illimitable access to an indwelling

52:02

Holy Spirit and we grieve over grieving

52:09

Him and plead for, again, a renewal of hope and joy in serving

52:16

Him. Amen. And I want you to pick up where we left off there because I have a clarifying question of my own.

52:25

But we have to get to our midway break right now. This is the longer -than -normal break in the middle of our show that we have to extend, if you will, because of the fact that Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

52:40

FM in Lake City, Florida, while we air our globally heard commercials, they air their own public service announcements and their own things, their own announcements that localize this show to Lake City, Florida, which is an

52:54

FCC requirement. So, if you could, use this time wisely and write down all of the information or at least a lot of the information provided by as many of our advertisers as possible so that you can more frequently patronize them and, therefore, subsequently,

53:16

God willing, they will remain our advertisers because they're pleased with the results and they, therefore, are helping us to remain on the air for a longer future.

53:26

Just always keep that in mind, is that we depend upon our advertisers to exist. The finances that come through our advertisers is something that is crucial.

53:38

We do not, even though we've been getting some very generous donations from you who have very benevolent hearts and have been very generous with us and we thank

53:49

God for you, the number of donations that come in could never cover what we need to have in regard to finances, so we need our advertisers.

54:02

So, please, write down that information provided by the advertisers and also, we ask of you to write down questions for Jeff Thomas and send them to and, as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

54:27

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

54:33

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Jeff Thomas after these messages from our sponsors. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love.

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Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim

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Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron Iron Sharpens Iron HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers in Christian apologetics with evidence for the

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I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised

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The coronavirus pandemic has rapidly changed our way of life, bringing so many uncertainties.

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When will it end? Why do disasters like this happen? How do we deal with anxiety, fear, and the like?

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Well, join us each Friday on the program Iron Sharpens Iron, with your host, Chris Arnzen, and Pastor Joe Jacowicz, as they explore

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Fridays, 1 p .m. Pacific, 4 p .m. Eastern, to hear what the Bible has to say about pandemics and how we should respond.

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As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

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The church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.

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We would likely not exist as a radio program without the financial support through the advertising that is placed on this program from solid -ground -books .com

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So, please, you've got a lot of events coming up that are perfect for gift -giving like Father's Day, like Graduation Day, like back -to -school gifts, like birthdays, wedding anniversaries, bereavement gifts, whatever the occasion may be, or no occasion at all, just to tell somebody that you love them and you care about them.

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That's solid -ground -books .com Before we return to our guest, Jeff Thomas, we just have a couple of important announcements to make.

01:09:27

This Thursday and Friday, the 28th and 29th of May, we finally have scheduled, and I'm so thrilled about this, the debate, the two -day debate between Sam Frost and Don Preston on Full Preterism.

01:09:48

Full Preterism is the teaching that Jesus Christ returned once and for all in AD 70 to destroy the temple in Jerusalem, and therefore he is not returning in the future.

01:10:05

He is not returning physically and bodily in our future. They also teach that the dead will not be raised in our future.

01:10:14

So, Don Preston is one of the most well -known advocates of this eschatological ideology, and Sam Frost, his opponent, is a former

01:10:27

Full Preterist who actually was a colleague of Don Preston, and Don Preston even published at least one book by Sam Frost.

01:10:37

So, this is going to be an exciting debate. This Thursday and Friday, we're going to be dealing on each night with one of the different major aspects of Full Preterism.

01:10:49

On the first night, or first day, I should say, the physical resurrection of the dead is not still in our future.

01:11:00

Don Preston affirms, Sam Frost denies, and then on day number two, Friday, the second coming of Christ is still in our future.

01:11:10

Sam Frost affirms, and Don Preston denies. So, keep that marked on your calendar this

01:11:15

Thursday and Friday, May 28th and 29th, the Full Preterist debate between Don Preston and Sam Frost.

01:11:24

I hope you spread the word to your family, friends, and loved ones, especially if they have been exposed to this subject, and perhaps they have even been brought to a state of confusion and depression and all kinds of things.

01:11:44

But anyway, just mark your calendars for this Thursday and Friday, and we look forward to hearing from you with your questions if we have time to ask them.

01:11:52

Also, folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear, please go to www .IronSharpensIronRadio .com,

01:11:59

click support, then click click to donate now. You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing that.

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You can also send in a check via snail mail to the address that appears on the screen. When you click support at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, just make checks payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Those two things are commands of God providing for your church and your family. Providing for this radio show is obviously not a command of God, but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, you have extra money that you've been saving because you're not going to concerts or movies or theatrical performances or sporting events or Bible conferences.

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There's so many things that you haven't gone to because of the quarantine that's been going on due to the pandemic and hysteria involving

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That is, of course, as I said, if you love the show and you don't want it to disappear. Go to www .IronSharpensIronRadio .com

01:13:23

Click Support then click Click to Donate Now. Also, folks, if you are not a member of a local

01:13:28

Bible -believing church and you're having a hard time finding one, I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the planet

01:13:36

Earth and have already helped many people in our audience find churches all over the world that they have either joined or that they have visited on vacation or that they have referred to their own family and friends and loved ones who are unaware of a church near them.

01:13:53

So, please, I'm urging you, send me an email to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com

01:13:59

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line. There's a few of you who are still waiting for me to get back to you with those church recommendations.

01:14:08

Please forgive me for my tardiness. There's been a lot going on behind the scenes here that has occupied my time.

01:14:15

So, I plan on getting that information to you this week sometime, perhaps even tonight or tomorrow.

01:14:22

Thank you for your patience. So, once again, if you need a church recommendation, send me an email to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com

01:14:32

and put I need a church in the subject line. And that's also the email address where you can ask a question to our guest,

01:14:38

Jeff Thomas. That's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com ChrisArnzen at gmail .com

01:14:44

at gmail .com And, Jeff, as we were saying before the break, there are texts and scriptures such as Hebrews 8 .12

01:14:58

which reads, For I will be merciful to their iniquities and I will remember their sins no more.

01:15:06

That is not saying that Jesus has amnesia, but He will not bring against us the evidence of our sins to condemn us if we are indeed crying out to Him in repentance and faith.

01:15:23

And one of the things I was going to say is that I find it so much more precious and beautiful and meaningful and something that gives me reason for even more praise and adoration and thanksgiving and gratefulness to Jesus is that Jesus knows full well each and every one of my sins and yet still chooses to forgive me.

01:15:48

Would you say I'm right on that? Absolutely. It's just an extravagance of grace, isn't it?

01:15:57

It's like the old man seeing this boy coming back and hesitating and he starts to run, old legs running, running up to him in case the boy would change his mind and then he hugs him and he whips over him and he says,

01:16:18

I'm never going to let you go again and bring the fatty calf, put the slippers on his feet and let's rejoice, my son was dead and he's alive again.

01:16:32

That's the response of grace in all its extravagance towards us when we go as sinners and here

01:16:42

I am Lord again, let you down again Lord. And his arms of love would embrace the whole world and they wrap themselves around me every time

01:16:57

I go to him. We have a listener in Perry County, Pennsylvania, Arnie, who asks, what is your favorite commentary on the book of James?

01:17:15

Right. Well, I'm being cheeky here for a moment.

01:17:22

I'm going to say that the 20, 24 sermons, the whole text of them is printed out on my website and so you can see the sermons that were preached some years ago and I combed what was,

01:17:45

I found that was most helpful at that time and I brought them together.

01:17:56

The best from a number of mountains got this commentary, a

01:18:02

Puritan commentary, on James, which is very, very rich. It's Thomas man.

01:18:09

I don't think there is one that is outstanding. What helped me was in the introduction to James in the introduction to the

01:18:24

New Testament of J. Gresham Machen and he says, if you want to understand the letter of James, then think of it as another version of the

01:18:41

Sermon on the Mount and the Sermon on the Mount, and then it presents to us the essential nature of regeneration if we're going to live like this, of a free justification if we're going to live in this way.

01:19:03

We've got to know forgiveness and we've got to know the grace of God in Jesus Christ and what

01:19:11

Jesus preaches then his half -brother writes in this letter the life of godliness and it's its own best commentary but the classic one is

01:19:30

Thomas Machen. Great, and I don't know for certain

01:19:37

I know that solid ground Christian books used to have commentaries or at the very least books by Thomas Machen but if you go to solid -ground -books .com

01:19:53

you might be able to find out if they specifically have the commentary in the book of James and other books.

01:20:00

Yes, yes, good. Well, why don't you continue moving through why this is such an important text

01:20:11

There's a measure of confusion, Chris concerning this prayer of faith and the claim is often made now that it is a prayer of assurance of strong conviction that this is going to happen and when this comes to you then you know that the sick is going to be healed and so on.

01:20:43

Now, I happen to believe that from my own experience there is such an assurance given to us sometimes when we pray.

01:20:56

It's only happened once to me It's my dear cousin he's a professor of Welsh in Aberystwyth he was, he passed away last year and he is one of the leading poets of our principality and in 1968 the

01:21:23

International Cultural Organizations got together and they had a poetry

01:21:36

Olympics in Mexico City the same week as the

01:21:42

Olympic Games and my cousin was the representative of Wales at the poetry

01:21:54

Olympics so he wasn't well on the plane he'd never flown so far and they had to take him to the hotel he's very ill the reception at the hotel was by the providence of God and then a nurse who had worked on a heart ward and knew all about it and knew what to do for him helped him his wife then she didn't have a passport she was back in Aberystwyth half a mile from where I lived she was desperately worried and I went home and I was on my knees and I was praying and as I prayed

01:22:43

I had an overwhelming assurance that he wasn't going to die and I got into the car and I drove straight back to Betty and I said,

01:22:52

Betty it's going to be alright I had this wonderful sense of assurance that he's going to live and I was able to speak warmly and earnestly to her because of this strange experience a prayer of assurance that was given to me at that time it's only happened that once I don't give it a title

01:23:18

I call it a prayer of assurance but assurance characterized it

01:23:24

I think it's one of the perks the benefits the wonderful blessings that come that our relationship with our

01:23:33

Heavenly Father is a wonderfully living relationship sometimes a light surprises the

01:23:40

Christian when he sings and the words of this hymn just suit the state of our hearts and minds and we're overwhelmed with affection and love and doxology to God we see things in the words that we've never seen before assurance comes to us in that way and so that does happen and people say well that's what

01:24:10

James is referring to when he talks about the prayer of faith that saves the sick but he's talking about trust isn't he?

01:24:19

he's saying you've got to keep trusting when the virus comes into your home when people you love so much are very ill you keep trusting in Heavenly Father he promises he will work all things together for your good he promises that when you pray he hears and he answers prayer you trust him don't get angry with him don't get bitter you keep trusting in the

01:24:55

Lord and salvation in all its richness the saved life of love and joy and peace that life which is joy unspeakable and full of glory

01:25:12

God will give to us as we keep trusting in him we have the fullness of salvation that's what

01:25:23

I believe Amen well a mutual friend of both of ours has a question for you and he has seemingly from what

01:25:34

I remember submitted questions to nearly to us nearly every time you've been on I may be wrong on that but his name is

01:25:42

Pastor Mac Tomlinson of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas and Pastor Mac asks is it true that Martin Luther actually went through with removing the book of James from his translation of the

01:26:01

Bible? I'm not quite sure of that, Mac that is,

01:26:08

I know he called it an epistle of straw and that was a problem with his doctrine of hermeneutics you know, he asked a question what is the main purpose the main lesson of scripture?

01:26:29

what does it say what does it talk about supremely? and he answered justification by faith now if he answered the kingdom of God God reigns in grace and in love then he could see then how the reign of grace in James helps people to live guards their tongue they don't have the greed of riches they do works they don't worry they're not in despair they are trusting in God and when they're sick they are prayerful the reign of grace over their lives shows itself but because he said the heart of the message of the

01:27:30

Bible is justification by faith well it's an enormously important one but because he didn't find justification by faith as prominently in the letter of James as he would call it a right story letter and it was a time when there was a measure of uncertainty about the canon of scripture although it had been so firmly established a thousand years before the time of Luther it wasn't an apocryphal book it was recognized that it had the authority of the brother of Jesus Christ who had seen

01:28:14

Christ rise from the dead at that personal encounter Paul tells us in 1

01:28:19

Corinthians 15 so he had apostolic authority to write these five chapters but he was an imperfect man like all the men we admire like James tells us in the last but one verse about Elijah he was only a man and he was only a man and he says he was a man of like passions as ourselves so we don't worship

01:28:49

Martin Luther we thank God for him and thank God for the great insight and strength that he had but he was wrong in dismissing the letter of James as he did yes

01:29:07

I don't think he ever went through with actually throwing Jimmy in the stove as the saying goes and well we'll have to find that out for certain one of these days but it reminds me of a sad reality there are hyper dispensationalist

01:29:29

Christians who actually believe that the only books of the

01:29:35

Bible that are applicable to us today are the epistles of Paul and they say that James is actually at odds with Paul and they will even say the gospels are and the teachings of Jesus are because those were for the old covenant and they have a wrong understanding that the old covenant was a righteousness achieved by obedience and good works anyway so they're really wrong on every occasion but just because the emphasis is different in James it doesn't mean that he's teaching something else than Paul has taught am

01:30:15

I right? yeah no no it was they are looking at the word to justify in a different way right yeah one is looking at it as Paul is looking at it to declare to be righteous and then

01:30:37

James is looking at it as vindication justification before men right?

01:30:44

yeah that's right well we have to go to our final break right now by the way thank you

01:30:50

Pastor Mac and we love you thank you Mark and we're going to our final break right now if anybody else would like to join us our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com don't go away we'll be right back after these messages with more of Jeff Thomas and the epistle of James James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and the

01:31:21

Dividing Line webcast here although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church now located at their new beautiful facilities in Coram, Long Island, New York I've had the privilege of opening

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God's word from their pulpit on many occasions have led youth retreats for them and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my

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New York debates I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught discipled and edified by the

01:32:00

Holy Scriptures and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ I also want to congratulate

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Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder Pastor Christopher McDowell for more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church go to hopereformedli .net

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that's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711 that's 631 -696 -5711 tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Iron Sharpens Iron welcomes

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Always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio We are now back with our guest

01:45:00

Jeff Thomas for our final segment of today's program and this is your last opportunity to submit a question

01:45:08

If you want to join us on the air it's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com

01:45:17

Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence And if you could take a few minutes to really summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today regarding the theme that we're discussing today

01:45:37

The theme is prayer, isn't it? I don't know of another part of the

01:45:42

Bible where in six consecutive verses the word pray and prayer occur

01:45:51

Verse 14 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray Verse 14

01:45:57

Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church and let them pray

01:46:06

Verse 15 The prayer of faith Verse 16

01:46:12

Confess your trespasses to one another and pray for one another Verse 17

01:46:18

Elijah was a man with a nature like ours and he prayed and as soon as he would he wouldn't rain and he didn't

01:46:25

Verse 18 And he prayed again and the heavens gave rain and the earth produced its fruit

01:46:34

How extraordinary This is the emphasis The emphasis is not then on some trick by which we can always guarantee we're going to be healed but it is keep praying

01:46:51

Now praying is the most difficult thing that anyone can do So how can we pray more?

01:47:00

Well, I would suggest there are a number of ways Think of that great definition of God the shorter catechism gives

01:47:09

God is a spirit infinite, eternal, unchangeable in his being, wisdom, power, holiness justice, goodness, and truth

01:47:17

Fill your mind with God My God is omniscient My God is omnipotent

01:47:23

My God is absolutely perfect full of majesty and glory

01:47:28

And then go on with your praying Don't let these thoughts stop you

01:47:34

I will pray I'm going to pray Though Satan tells me I'm hopeless in praying and I'm weary and I don't pray as I should

01:47:43

I'm going to pray And then all the thoughts that hang around your mind and the awful imaginations that are there tell the

01:47:53

Lord Oh, I hate that world, Lord It weakens my faith

01:47:58

They're a burden to me They don't stop me being one degree less a child of my

01:48:07

Heavenly Father And the sense of sadness and frustration they are great marks that I'm a real

01:48:14

Christian The world gets such thoughts and it thinks, oh, it's natural but there's no escape and he makes jokes about them

01:48:22

But the Christian knows they come from the pit And labor to go in and grace

01:48:29

Be filled with the Spirit and seek help from the

01:48:35

Lord and fill me more and more And always be praying that and never be tired of asking for help from the

01:48:47

Lord to pray and try to shed some of your other worries your business, your exams, your family your health, your church

01:48:59

You know, cast those cares upon the great, powerful, omnipotent arms of the

01:49:07

Savior stretching out for you That is the way that we learn to pray

01:49:17

The first time we know Paul was really regenerate

01:49:25

The man who goes to him is told he'll be in the house and the street called straight

01:49:32

Behold, he is praying That's the first mark and it's the last

01:49:37

We will die with his name on our lips Jesus, we will say

01:49:43

Sometimes we're so weak under the anesthetic getting over the operation All we can say is

01:49:49

Jesus Jesus And that's all that we need to say And he hears

01:49:57

And he answers us And our prayer saves us Eternally Amen Don't you think that we sometimes are too hard on ourselves perhaps that the way we pray is too inarticulate

01:50:25

We sometimes are ashamed to bring our words before God because he is so holy and so righteous

01:50:32

Now I understand, especially when we're in public we should be trying to make sure our prayers are biblically informed

01:50:40

But at the same time don't you think that we beat ourselves up a little bit too much when we approach the throne of grace?

01:50:50

I think we do You know, my wife and I we read from table talk alternate paragraphs and then

01:51:01

I pray and we have themes that we never stop praying for our loved ones, for our churches for the sick people, for our leaders

01:51:14

We are constantly they just come from our hearts our deepest concerns

01:51:23

I'm not there to teach my wife what an eloquent man

01:51:29

I am Oh, what a phony idea I'm there to say things that are my meat and drink my longing, my desire, my hopes for God's blessing to come and rest upon us and, you know

01:51:50

God knows how sincere my heart is and I pray through Christ That's how we go to God We go, and Jesus de -sins our prayers

01:52:03

He takes away I've never prayed a sinless prayer in my life The Lord takes the sin away and he gives it to his

01:52:11

Father and it's pleasing and it's acceptable and God hears and answers as I'm praying in Jesus' name

01:52:20

We have an anonymous listener who is touching on something that we both said here

01:52:28

The anonymous listener says Don't you think that it is not only annoying but sinful when in public prayer meetings there are those who take this as an opportunity to show off their eloquence

01:52:43

They very often pray very long lengthy prayers with very long words and they're really just trying to impress everybody in the room

01:52:57

Well, I suppose that does occur It doesn't occur in the church where I am attending at the present time

01:53:09

Although some will pray longer I remember one man he could kill a prayer meeting by preaching at us through his praying and that was, oh dear

01:53:22

I would groan and sometimes I would cut in If he paused for a moment

01:53:28

I'd say, Amen Now, brother so -and -so, will you pray? So, it depends on the person leading the prayer meeting that he doesn't allow such people to kill the prayer meeting

01:53:41

Yeah, doesn't the Bible even prohibit those that pray in such a way in public to be seen by men?

01:53:50

Quite so And the vain repetitions are the marks of heathens' prayers

01:53:58

Amen Let's see here We have another anonymous listener who says

01:54:07

How do I know the Lord is hearing my prayers? I've been praying about certain things very important things for years and he has never granted me the prayers that I have brought before him

01:54:21

How do I know that he has not turned his back on me or that I am lost as a result of his silence to me?

01:54:36

Hmm I wish you were my member and we could sit down and have a cup of coffee together and we could talk about this and we could reminisce about deep concerns

01:54:55

I have one grandson who is a rebel Every day

01:55:01

I pray that the Lord will touch his heart and that he will be now that he is in his early twenties that he'll be a repentant boy and that he'll love the

01:55:17

Saviour that his mother and father and grandparents love I'll never stop praying that prayer

01:55:26

Though I've prayed it many times there's nothing in the Bible that tells me

01:55:31

I should I should stop because I've I've prayed it

01:55:39

I'm taught by my Saviour to pray Our Father which art in heaven

01:55:45

Thy will be done That's His will that people be saved Thy kingdom come

01:55:51

I want the reign of Jesus Christ over this boy as his subject as his vassal as his slave

01:56:00

I want him to glorify God by serving the King of Kings and so you know keep praying

01:56:10

Don't let the devil sow those thoughts in your mind that you have prayed this prayer and so from now on you're going to stop praying it

01:56:24

The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much so you don't know what is being achieved by your prayers and maybe it will be after your death that this prayer will be answered but you're filling up the vessels of glory by your praying and one day they will pour out in blessing upon favoured men and women

01:57:02

We have time for one more anonymous call or not a call, email the questioner says

01:57:11

Do I need to be praying for my ex -spouse who is not a believer every single day when

01:57:19

I bring back to my memories the ways that I have been so painfully hurt and the way that my children have been hurt and bringing him up to my memory in prayer is like torture

01:57:33

Must I do this every single day? Oh, I'm so sorry what a how sad that is

01:57:44

Do you have to pray? Yes, you have to pray Do you have to pray for all men all kinds of men?

01:57:54

Yes, we have to pray Your former spouse yes though that person hurt you so much

01:58:10

Did you hurt Christ with your guilt and your disobedience and defiance?

01:58:21

Did you hurt him? Were nails driven through his hands and feet because of the sins that you did against him?

01:58:32

Yes Does he ever stop praying for you? He ever lives to whisper your worthless name so whisper her name say

01:58:46

Lord have mercy on her and that's all that's needed and pray that you'll have a sincere heart and that you won't be troubled, it's the devil that's troubling you with that prayer

01:59:02

Well we're out of time and I want to make sure our listeners have your website again alfredplacechurch .org

01:59:08

.uk alfredplacechurch .org .uk Do you have another website that you were mentioning earlier?

01:59:15

No, that would be fine that's if you if anyone puts in Jeff Thomas Servants on Google then they will take you straight away to that website which is the

01:59:28

Alfred Place Baptist Church website Great, well thank you so much and I look forward to your return tomorrow on another topic here on Iron Trubman's Iron Radio and I want to thank everybody who listened and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater