Lifelong Mormon still Searching for Truth

Apologia Utah

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So our main concern is that, presented from this church through Joseph Smith, you're being presented with a false

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Christ, a false gospel, and a different spirit. So that's our main concern.

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So our question is, have you ever tested the spirits that you have accepted at this church? I'm not sure what you mean by tested the spirit, but I'm open to lots of different religions, and I've actually attended lots of different churches.

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The reason I attend this church is it's comfortable. Okay. What's comfortable about it?

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I grew up in this religion, so I just, you know, I know how it's supposed to work. I know what the culture is like.

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You know, if you join another church, another religion, you gotta figure all that out again. And, I don't know,

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I'm 51 and I'm like, this is comfortable. I come more for the social than anything else. Okay. So in terms with Jesus, do you believe what he says when he says,

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I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me? Yeah. Do you believe that?

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Oh, yeah. So do you think Hindus will go to heaven? I think anybody in any religion can find the truth, and then one day that truth will be exposed to them as coming from Jesus.

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So to ask me, can a Hindu get to heaven? I don't know. But, if someone's living a really good life and at some point in their life they hear about Jesus and they're like, oh my gosh, that totally lines up with what

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I believe, then they have discovered where that truth really comes from. Gotcha, gotcha.

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So, one of my concerns. Yeah. Yeah, that's sweet, Daniel. I love that guy. Constantino's amazing.

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Yeah, that was so sweet. I appreciate it. One of my concerns is Romans chapter 3 details to us the position of men before God.

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It says, number one, that no one seeks after God, no one understands God, right? Right, yeah, totally.

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So, Jesus says unless you believe in him, that he is the I am, as well the eternal God, he says unless you believe in him you'll die in your sins.

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Hindus don't believe that there is sin, right? They believe in a never -ending cycle of birth and rebirth. Let's just pause for a minute.

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I don't know enough about other religions to have this conversation. I'm just going to be honest about that. So, I'm going to say this kind of funny.

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Oh, yeah, I'm listening, yeah, I'm listening. The God that I have found is a very, very kind, loving, merciful

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God. There is justice, but there is a whole hell of a lot of mercy.

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Right. We believe that, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We believe that, too. God's rich in mercy is what the scriptures say.

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And I should just say right up front, my husband's not a member of this church, so trust me, 23 years of discussions.

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So, it really just comes down to each person reading the

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Bible for themselves, figuring out what it is that God wants them to do, and then doing it the best they can.

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Then we can all quibble over, is Joseph Smith a prophet? Is he not a prophet?

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We can quibble over how we baptize. We can quibble over how we see the afterlife. But at the end of the day, none of us know.

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And God's the one that's going to talk to each of our hearts, right? So, for me,

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I have been on a journey since 2018 of really trying to boil my faith down to the essentials.

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Because this church, like I am pretty sure every other church out there, has got the doctrine, and then they've got a culture.

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And a lot of times we live the culture, not the doctrine. Right. I don't want to live the culture anymore.

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I just want to live the doctrine. And so I've been on this journey, and for me right now, the journey has taken me to, we all call it the golden rule, and I don't even know which book in the

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Bible says it, but it's when Jesus is saying, God, love your neighbor as yourself, right?

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So that has been my journey. And I really had to figure out the second part, as myself.

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So, you figure that part out, and you start trying to figure out how to love other people. I recently lost my dad.

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Oh, man. Sorry for that. Thank you. But all kinds of crazy emotions came up towards my mom, and I didn't understand why.

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And I've been contemplating, and meditating, and praying, and all that stuff, and it's the next step.

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Compassion is love. And I don't have enough compassion for my mom for what she's going through. So that's my next, you know what

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I mean? Yes. I just am trying to figure out what it is that God wants me to do. Right.

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So, what if I told you that in God's word, you can actually have absolute certainty to who

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He is, and it's not on your own opinion. So, in Isaiah 43, 10, it says this, it says, So, the point

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I'm bringing that up is that in God's holy word, we can actually have special revelation given to us through the

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Holy Spirit about who God is. We need that. I mean, we have His general revelation in terms of all of the things

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He's created around us, right? The creation declares the glory of God, but then when we have His special revelation, we can actually know who

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He is with certainty and not rely on our own interpretations. So, do you believe that the

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Holy Bible is God's inspired word alone? Yes. Okay. Now, I understand what you're saying about personal interpretation.

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Mm -hmm. And I don't, it's hard to explain.

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Because, I think everybody goes through this, at least, where, lack of a better word, crisis of faith, where you just kind of wonder.

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Yeah. Did everything I get taught was real? Right. You know, and let's face it, our first interpretations of God have a lot to do with our parents.

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Sure, of course. And a lot to do with the environment we were raised in. And so, you just, so at some point, for me,

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I'm like, yeah,

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I totally, I know that scripture, I understand that scripture, but I don't know if I understand, you know what

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I mean? I need to hear it in a different direction. I need to find it in a different way.

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Right. Which is what I've been trying to do. Yeah. So, real quick, man, what was your name?

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I didn't get your name. Oh, sorry, Alisa. Alisa, okay. Daniel and Andrew. Hi, Andrew, Daniel. Nick. Nice to meet you.

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So, we hear what you're saying, and I think one thing we can honestly appreciate is you're honest. You're like, yeah, I'm on this journey, and I'm here because it's comfortable, and that's, honestly, it's good.

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And we honestly do love you, regardless of how this conversation ends. We love you, we care for you. I think one thing my brother's trying to say is, is like, yes, there's, because you said, you know, no one, like, we can all have our different religions.

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Muslims, Hindus, and, like, at the end of the day, we have to see what God is, like, we'll see because only God knows. What he's saying is, is there's certain, there's truth in the

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Bible that we can know that we can test. And so that's why the first thing he asks you is, have you tested the Spirit? Like, when we go to a church and we hear these doctrines, are we testing it with what

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God says is true? Because ultimately, his word is true, the Bible is true, and the message of the

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Bible is that we're all sinners. So the assumption we make, I think, on our own is that we're not too bad, we're kind of innocent, and God's going to give us grace.

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But what the Bible says is know that we are bad, that we're sinners, that we're guilty before God. It says that our sins are like a record of debt, and it says that there's guilt toward that, there's wages that oppose our relationship in God.

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And so the message, the good news of the Bible isn't just, and hear me out, it isn't just Jesus died on the cross, because I think we all know that.

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But the message is, God has accomplished something in history. He's done something where God became a man, he lived a perfect life, and he died for his people.

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So that when this message goes forth that God stepped into creation, that he was a sacrifice, he was a lamb on the cross, he satisfied the wrath of God, his people would repent and turn to him and trust in him alone.

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And I think one of our main concerns is, is this church using a lot of similar language? You can live here your whole life and maybe even, you know, die and gone here, but you would have missed the true gospel.

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And that's a warning that Paul constantly gives, he says, hey, like, don't, he says, don't go after another gospel.

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Not that there is one, there is no other gospel, he says, but if someone preaches to you another one, he says, let that person be a curse.

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He gives a warning to Corinthians, he says, don't follow after a different Jesus. Not that there is one, there's not another Christ, but people can present a different one.

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And so our concern is that this church presents a Jesus, and they'll tell you if you ask them,

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Jesus didn't create all things, they'll say. They'll say Lucifer's a spirit brother, he's the offspring of Elohim, Father God.

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That's what they'll tell you if you ask them. But when you read the scriptures for yourself, it says Christ created all things in heaven and on earth.

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And then in John, this is my favorite one, in John 1, 3, it says anything that was made, it was made through him.

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So if it falls in a made category, that means Jesus made it. So he didn't make himself, he was the eternal

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God. And so our real, I think, concern is not just for the sake of arguing and drawing scriptures, like all that, like you said.

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We can debate and have that, and that is what it is. But the truth is, is all of us here, we're going to die one day. And we're going to face

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God, and if we don't have the true gospel, which this church doesn't have, it's nice. I love them, they are nice.

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We have coffee, they're nice, I love them. But it's a false gospel. And so our contingency, ma 'am, is we love you, we care for you, we want your sins to be paid for on and off the cross.

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And so that only comes, we're not saying to our church, and we're not, ma 'am. Oh, no, no, no, I understand that. Don't even take our word for it.

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With the Bible. Test us the same way you test them with the Bible. And this is what

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I mean by test the spirits, too. In 1 John 4, we're commanded to test the spirits. That's what God tells us in his word.

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And so there's two tests of a prophet. Real quick, I just want to tell you, there's Deuteronomy 13 and 18. Deuteronomy 13 says,

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And then Deuteronomy 18 says, If anyone speaks in the name of Yahweh, which is God, Jehovah, but if they speak something and they're giving a prophecy, but that thing does not come to pass, just one false prophecy, don't believe them.

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And then further in God's law, it says, So we look at the claims of Joseph Smith and the revelation he received from a spirit, and we test it to previous revelation in Scripture.

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He actually fails both tests. He had many false prophecies. One, he said that within 56 years,

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Jesus would come back on the scene, and it never happened. And that's why we care for you.

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We want you to know the true God. I have been inside about three different Mormon ward services.

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One was a testimony day. Yeah, and I've been there a couple more times after that.

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But it's not that I would go in there and listen to determine truth. I'm actually going to look at what Joseph Smith says, and I'm going to test him according to the

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Bible, and he fails. And I think that's important, right? God loves you enough to give you his text to keep you safe from false prophets, ma 'am.

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So if you believe in a different Jesus, there's one that can't save you. Jesus says, He says,

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And we worry about that for these people. They say Jesus, but it's fundamentally a different Jesus than the one presented to us in Scripture, ma 'am.

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Yeah, think about it. We love you. We care about you. Did you get a tract? Oh, okay.

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Read them, ma 'am. We love you. We care about you. You can look up even some of our videos online. I'm so grateful that you came over here and talk with us.

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That takes a lot of courage to see a bunch of people and be like, Hi, I'm actually going to come talk to them, you know?

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So, I don't. You can put that jacket on. So, yeah, we love and care about you.

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And D 'Anno presented the gospel beautifully to you. Ma 'am, we just pray that you repent and believe the gospel.

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Leave a false organization and come to know the true and living God, who can give you absolute certainty. All right?

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And test it. Thank you again for your time, sir. If you want, you can get one of our numbers.

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Just so you can text us if you want to see what your study is, what you think, what you've been praying about.

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Because, again, this isn't something minor like baptism. This is talking about our souls, right? Our eternities.

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Where do we go? Who is the person of Jesus? Who is God? And so, we have brothers who we disagree with on baptism.

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That's fine. We love them. It's a side issue. But when we talk about who is Jesus, who is

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God, how is a person saved? Ma 'am, we're looking at you. We care about you.

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We love you. And we know you have a lot of respect. You came down here again in the rain, and you said, Hey, I can't hear you.

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Let's talk. And we appreciate that. So, if you want, I'll give you my number. And if you ever want to… Yeah.

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Yeah. Thanks, guys. Yeah, thank you. You have a lot to just think about and stuff. I appreciate it. Yes. Test the spirits, all right?

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Not our word, but what Scripture says. Right. Of course. And if you have any questions, concerns, anything, you have my number now.

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right. Let me know. Perfect. I'll do that. Thank you. Thank you so much. Bye, guys. Bye. You enjoy your day. You have a good day.