February 13, 2019 Show with Matthew D. Aernie and Donald E. Hartley on “The Righteous and Merciful Judge: The Day of the Lord in the Life & Theology of Paul”

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Questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania,.

Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity who are living on the planet Earth, listening via live streaming at

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on

this 13th day of February 2019, and I am so delighted to have

two guests on the program that have never appeared on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio before,

and in fact, Matthew is such a new guest, I don't know how to pronounce his name.

He's gonna have to let me know how to pronounce his name, but let me ask you right now, Matthew, how do you

pronounce your last name?

It's Arnie.

Arnie, okay, great.

I should have guessed that.

My first guess was gonna be Ernie or Ernie, but Arnie, okay.

Matthew D. Arnie, who earned his PhD at the University of Wales and is Associate Professor of

Bible Studies for the College of Adult and Graduate Studies at Colorado Christian University, and

someone with a name much easier to guess the pronunciation of, Donald E. Hartley, who

received his PhD from Dallas Theological Seminary and is an Adjunct Professor of Biblical and Theological

Studies at Regent University.

Today we are going to be addressing a book that they both co -authored, and I'm sure you're

all going to learn a lot today from this discussion on The Righteous and Merciful Judge,

The Day of the Lord in the Life and Theology of Paul, and it's my honor and

privilege to welcome both of you men, Dr. Matthew Ernie and

Dr. Donald Hartley to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Thank you, great to be here.

It's great for you both to be with me as well, and I'm looking forward to this.

First of all, since you are both first -time guests, I would like each of you to do

something that is a tradition here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

When we have first -time guests, we typically have them give a summary

of their salvation testimony, starting with the religious atmosphere,

if any, that you were raised in and what providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord raised

up in your lives to draw you to himself and.

And we'll start with Matthew Ernie.

Ernie!

Sorry, Ernie.

That's good, you're fine, I get that all the

time, no problem.

My life, my mom

made it

a point to make sure we were, but that

was pretty much it when it came to spiritual

guidance and

talking about the Lord

or

trying

to nominal.

The Lord used him mightily to show what it

means to follow.

Got into college when I consider

that time

period,

strong

Christians

in

them,

and they never

intentionally did this, but walking me through what it looked like

to look like to have your

around it by some very godly

men who had become Christians earlier in their lives, and they kind of helped me along, and

interestingly, you know, in the Lord's providence, all these men that I was getting to know in the dorm

and in class, and.

Literally, depending upon how angry they

were by your Arminianism.

No, I didn't even know what any of that was, that's the thing.

Praise God.

And now, Donald E. Hartley, if you could, Dr. Hartley, now give your summary

of your own salvation testimony.

Is Don there?

Hello?

I don't know.

Wow, that's odd.

Well, I guess Don probably got somehow disconnected, then somebody, Matt, if

you are aware of anybody that can call Dr. Hartley, Donald Hartley, Dr. Hartley.

Can you hear me now?

Oh, yeah, okay.

He's there, he's there,

and I can't tell when they got, I heard everything that Matt said, so.

Okay, great.

Well, it's your turn to give a summary of your own salvation testimony.

Right.

Yes, I very frequently, unfortunately, disobey our Lord when He said, be anxious for nothing.

When I'm having technical difficulties or something, that immediately goes out the window, and I have to constantly repent over it, but I'm sorry.

Over and over

again.

I

always

believe,

I

believe

all

that,

but the

services

were

just,

oh, right.

She was a Christian.

At the time, I was

a Christian.

I started dating, and immediately we,.

And that was wise of them, wasn't it?

But I didn't

like it.

All these different

things.

Now, at heart, I was a Baptist, and I believe that the Bible was,

I just took His answer, I took His word for it.

The radio, everybody on the

radio, Jay Vernon McGee, Matthew, I wasn't,.

Yes, in fact, in fact, many, many, many people that I have met, who

today would not spend a nickel on a Hal Lindsey book, were led to

Christ through reading The Late Great Planet Earth.

Logical, it wasn't emotional, and I gravitated in more than anybody

else, but one day, you know, we had gotten this

Christian maturity book by Bill Bright.

They recommended this book, so we started going through it like a workbook, and so we worked through it, and there's verses to

memorize, and, you know, passages.

It was really fun, because I'd never been through the Bible, but I

begged until I know that I'm saved.

Prayed the prayer.

I actually, I wouldn't do this today, because I know better, but Revelation 320, I actually thought that that

meant heaven to my heart, which it doesn't actually mean that, but God honored it anyway.

I prayed the prayer.

It would not be more true if Jesus Christ had been telling me these words.

I went to bed that night, and I

said, guess what?

You know, she looked

at me kind of, it was genuine,

pretty happy.

Praise God.

I'd come up and become a Baptist.

I didn't become a Baptist.

I joined the Baptist church, and I said to myself, I got in, you know,

archish goals of turning my...

Praise God.

That's always something I like to hear, although that doesn't mean necessarily that you have to abandon being a Baptist.

I happen to be a Reformed Baptist.

Yeah.

But...

People forgive you.

Well, I'm sorry?

I said, we'll forgive you.

My question now is, does Dallas Theological Seminary forgive you?

When I went to Dallas as a student, I was rejected.

I started out as sensational, I have to

admit.

I was one people's God.

And then I

began

to equate as two people of God, and

so I thought that I

wasn't just...

I did have to find something, and I read

carefully.

You know, years ago, they used to be really, really...

I think Dr. Hohner, the book of

Romans, he said, there's a funny thing that happened after

people would graduate from Dallas Seminary, because suddenly they were amillennial.

They hold that stuff here, and they're hiding it

because now...

And it was true, they would kick you out.

They did before.

In fact, I know that they used to have a policy of kicking out faculty if they were five

-point Calvinists, because I had the privilege years ago in the 1990s of having lunch at a

Bible conference with S. Lewis Johnson, and he had told me the whole story about how he had to

leave Dallas Theological Seminary when he became a five -point Calvinist.

Yes, that's what I was.

Saying at one time.

Yeah, it's interesting.

Normal Dallas...

I view those right there.

Right.

At least they're halfway there, you know?

Yeah, but we do have phenomenal brothers like John MacArthur, who is

both a thoroughgoing Calvinist and a Dispensationalist, and my life has been just enormously

blessed beyond words by Dr. MacArthur, because Dispensationalism, as strong of a

Dispensationalist as he may be, that does.

Not dominate his teaching and his writings.

Johnson

got

together one time and asked,

what are

you going to do,

Uncle

Lawrence?

You

forgive

when he's...

Yes, well, his...

The truth that he boldly preaches far outweighs anything, I think, that would be

inconsistent with his Calvinism.

I agree.

So, let's get right to the book now.

This is a book that I'm sure will be enlightening to some, and

hopefully will not just anger others to the point that they don't further investigate their position.

But the book is, once again, The Righteous and Merciful Judge, The Day of the Lord in the Life and Theology of Paul.

If you could, and I'll let both of you define this, and we can start with

Dr. Arne, what is the Day of the Lord?

Because there are, as you know, differences of opinion as to what that phrase is referring

to, and there are differences not only between

premillennial and premillennial pre -tribulationists

and amillennialists, and even within amillennialists you have pessimistic and optimistic, and within

postmillennialism you have all kinds of postmillennialists out there, and there are

disagreements on certain key things that we read in the scriptures.

But if you could tell us, what is the Day of the Lord?

And Dr. Arne, we'll start with you.

A great

goal

was, I want to serve

the Lord, impact

in his

ministry, because

it's

not

just

spirit consummation, the final day of

the Lord, where he

intervenes for his

people, brings

blessing, and a not -yet

concept.

We see God intervening, we see God visiting his people in

visitations, all these interactions that God does have with his people on the Day of

the Lord, what's behind

his theology,

behind his missionary work, the minute of his life,

the Day of the

Lord, the consummate day, that final day, is impacting his life and ministry.

That motif, he may not say,

you know, a

concept

he's borrowing from the Old Testament, where it was

a day, and you see God

at work.

I guess if I

could sum it up.

Yes, I happen to be personally.

A partial preterist, and I use that, I emphasize the word partial

because I believe that hyper preterism is a very dangerous heresy, and we have

those on both extremes.

You'll have many dispensationalists who will say what you're referring to is only future,

and you'll have hyper preterists saying it is only the past, and they seem

to want to jam everything into AD 70 when the temple was destroyed.

But do you guys put a label on yourselves in regard to eschatology?

And perhaps Dr. Hartley, you could pick up now.

Sure.

Yeah, I can hear you fine.

Yes, sir.

I put myself in that

in

my theology,

and maybe even

Paul,

and

they would admit that just like the aspects of the future reign

are intruding into the present time, already not yet kind of issues as

Matt was saying, this concept.

And not only that, we would say that the Day of the Lord, it is

almost a center of

all, but it's not quite.

But it's something that influences the way he lives and moves and as his being.

He writes the book of Romans, for example, the

end time is intruding into the present, something about how the

wrath is going to be exhibited in the end

times.

Well, he ends that

section in chapter 3 being condemned and silent.

Well, that's the Day of the Lord.

And the very next passage, 3 verses 21

to 26 and then to 31,

the Day

of the

Lord is still future.

But these days of the Lord include the

significance of our salvation

by the crucifixion of Christ.

The Day of the Lord is always two

-pronged.

It's judgment.

Now, if you don't

experience that, if you don't, if the atonement is not for you, then you have a future Day of

the Lord.

You're going to experience, to some degree, or

not so well in chapter 1.

Yes, if Christ has not.

Paid for your sins, you are going to pay for them.

And we're going to our first break right now.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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And I can understand that perhaps if you're studying through eschatology and you

are coming to a different opinion than your own pastor, or perhaps you are a pastor, you've

come to a different opinion than you used to hold to, or you've come to a different opinion than your congregation

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We can understand that you'd want to remain anonymous, so we will allow you to do that.

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And don't go away, we will be right back after these messages with more of our discussion.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Trip and Zion Radio, and we have

two guests today that are on with us for the entire two hours of the broadcast,

and this is their first appearance on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

We have Dr. Matthew D. Arney, who is associate professor of biblical

studies for the College of Adult and Graduate Studies at Colorado Christian

University, and Dr. Donald E. Hartley, an adjunct professor of biblical and theological studies

at Regent University.

We are discussing their book that they have both written together, The Righteous and

Merciful Judge, The Day of the Lord in the Life and Theology of Paul, and if you'd

like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

That's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com, and as always,

please at least give us your first name, your city and state of residence,

and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

That's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, and unless Dr. Hartley, you have

anything further to add to what you were saying, perhaps we can move on with Dr.

Arney giving us a summary of the Day of.

The Lord

in the

Old Testament.

The Old Testament uses

the old theology and understanding of,

just began to

see, if you want to say it

that way, Lord language, the Day of the Lord motif,

theophany language, that kind of, those kind of issues, and it was astounding to me

because over the years,

kind of Haddock

language has apparently used,

the ones that use that verbiage, I mean, they're the ones that talk about the Day of Yahweh, the Day of the Lord, and all that,

but I began to look in the

Pentateuch

and began to

see, even as

early as

when God came to Adam in the garden, Adam,

and asked Adam where he was, you know, the Hebrew,

and began to study that a little bit more in detail and realized

what a breezy

day looking for Adam, but more or less of God coming in a thunderstorm, God coming in

in anger, God coming in judgment to Adam and Eve, not so much saying, where are you, as in, like,

hey, what's going on?

What have

you done?

In that chapter on the Old Testament where I said, you

know, Adam and Eve, Adam

and Eve

had sinned out, where God comes.

Fantastic.

Yes, one of

my favorite, one

of my favorite female authors, I'm just kidding.

Along with Lorraine Bettner.

Right, right.

You don't want to bring down the.

Rap, you know.

I was making it clear that I was joking, ladies and gentlemen.

I know,.

But Dr. Klein began to explore that language of the

Hebrew

as well and

began to

kind of language

that

concept of

language coming, and that's

going to be

a picture of

what the ultimate

day will look like.

That day of the Lord is going to be a day of judgment, whereas if you do repent and follow Yahweh, it will be a day of

vindication, a day

of rejoicing.

Now, isn't

there a lesson to be learned.

By our dispensationalist friends, or even those outside of dispensationalism, who

tend to look upon most events,

well, perhaps not most events, but many events in scripture that either have

been fulfilled already in the apostolic era or have

a dual definition, as you are taking that position on

at least some of these issues, and especially the day of the Lord, where it's amazing where

some of our futurist friends will be insistent that there are

things in regard to eschatology that are only to be viewed as future events, and yet we

have examples in the Old Testament of a number of them being clearly fulfilled

even before the Christian era.

And, Dr. Hartley, do you have anything to add about the—I'm sorry, I just interrupted somebody.

I.

Don't

know

who it

was,

though.

Yeah,

I

think

among the

minority

fulfillment,

just

reading

it through and see how it plays out would kind of open their mind up to

these.

Well, let me ask you a question,.

Because you're actually speaking about something that is new to me.

I had not heard, to my memory, that there were multiple fulfillments of that

passage.

In fact, I remember years ago, and you could let me know if I need correction or needed correction on the

way that I answered this.

I was speaking to an Orthodox Jewish friend of mine, and he said that that passage, as you did,

in Hebrew, in reality, means a young woman or girl.

And I said, yeah, but if you don't interpret it or

exegete it as a virgin, it's not a sign, because young girls were giving birth

by the thousands every day back then.

I mean, girls were being married in their early teens, and so on.

So did I did I answer my Orthodox Jewish friend incorrectly?

But the immediate, the actual sign about the

intrusion of troops into the land by the time this child is so old, this will take place, there'll be

devastation.

And so that was an immediate fulfillment.

I'm not sure

now, but I think, yet, Matthew, you

find

things like in

Matthew, again, like out of Egypt, have I called my son.

I mean, there's no way you would interpret that as a Messianic prophecy at all.

And yet, Matthew does that as well.

So there's these strange applications or usages of Scripture.

We have to be open to what's going on here.

And there's Jewish interpreters.

It doesn't really jive with what we think it ought to be.

Yeah, there's multiple fulfillments of

Isaiah, especially of the language.

I mean, Alma is the word for young woman, and technically the term for virgin.

And I used to go to that verse and say, well, yeah, the

deceptive parthenos, which means virgin.

Then I found out that that's not, it doesn't always mean that.

Even that word doesn't.

So there's this multiple fulfillment, and there's a par excellence that said in the

future, which can be

unique in that

regard.

I add this, but it's going to be controversial to say this, but you know, Jesus could have been, he wasn't, but he could have been conceived

by both Mary and Joseph.

He didn't mean he could have been born

in the way he was.

He was conceived by Mary, the simple

humanity of Jesus did.

So he did that for a reason.

You know, it was to mark him as different.

And you do believe that God, that Jesus Christ, I should say, only had one

earthly biological parent.

Yes.

You know, because of the question, they say, well, how can, he's like,

well, yeah, Joseph, and the Roman Catholics answer that by

saying, well, Mary was born without sin.

That's the immaculate conception.

The problem with that is, well, what about her mother?

It just comes on the perpetuity.

Well, the answer is...

But as far as the hypostatic union, though, would

not the fact that Christ was fully God and fully man require that

the Holy Spirit be the one who conceived Christ in the womb of

Mary?

The body you

prepared me.

I don't know.

I know that, you know, the explanation in my own mind is maybe

eluding me.

We know the facts.

And I think you should perhaps reiterate,.

Though, that you're not saying that it is possible that Jesus Christ

was conceived by a sexual union of Mary and Joseph.

You're just saying, hypothetically, if that were the case, that God chose that route,

it would not change the fact of who Christ was, if he used those means.

Yes, no.

I'm open to being corrected on that.

I don't know.

Now, would you say that those that say that that is the case, that they are in

very serious heresy?

When they're saying is the case what?

That Jesus Christ was not born of a virgin.

Oh, yes.

Okay.

Just want to make sure, I mean, you don't even see the pool of sweat forming around me.

Right now.

They're trying to diminish

the fact that Jesus Christ was deity.

A problem with an atheist.

And he said, no, he's

not.

And I said, yes, he is.

He was debating William Lane Craig and William Lane Christian.

He said, where was God, you know, in the Jurassic Age?

And John Dominic Crawford, that's a meaningless question.

And the reason why it's meaningless, because God is a projection of man, which

he gets from Forbach and then then Sigmund Freud, The Future

of Illusion talks about that.

Yes.

And by the way, if anybody listening, if anybody listening wants to hear a debate between my friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha

Omega Ministries, and John Dominic Crawson, who is a former Roman

Catholic who became very liberal theologically, and he's a part of the Jesus

Seminar.

Am I right on that?

Yes.

Yes, which is a very liberal organization that really seeks to

convince Christians that many of the things that we cherish and believe to

be truth are not actual fact, and it's a very dangerous

organization, and they have very dangerous events that they invite people to attend.

But you could go to AOMIN .org, A -O -M -I -N, which stands for Alpha Omega Ministries, and you can

find out where you can view the debate between James White and John Dominic

Crawson.

We're going to pick up right where we left off.

We have to go to our midway break right now.

This is the longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida,

requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because they air their own

commercials and public service announcements in order to localize Iron Troupe and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida.

So please be patient with us as we take this elongated break.

Use this time wisely, and not only write down questions for our guests on the Day of the Lord at

chrisarnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com, but also write down

the information provided by our advertisers because the more frequently you

patronize our advertisers, the more likely they are going to remain

our advertisers, which means the more likely Iron Troupe and Zion Radio is going to remain on the air

because we truly depend upon the finances that come in through our advertisers.

So please patronize our advertisers as much as you can and as heavily as you can

and write down the information to enable you to do that more frequently and heavily.

And again, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com if you want to join us on the air.

Chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be back after this break right after these messages with more of our

discussion on the Day of the Lord.

Tired of bop store Christianity, of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert?

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And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times.

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I'm James White of.

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Did you know that all believers are priests?

In 1 Peter chapter 2 verse 9, the Apostle Peter describes Christ's church as comprising a chosen

race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may

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Today.

Chris Orenson, host of Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio here.

I want to tell you about a man.

I have personally known for many years.

His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself.

Recently he wrote a book titled Consider the Evidence for the Bible.

Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.

Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country.

Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100

cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10

different states.

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history.

In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the Law Journal.

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Consultations are free.

There is no fee unless you win.

Dan Buttafuoco's number

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That's chrisarnson.

At gmail .com.

Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS

Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of

God in the churches of our Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth

of Holy Scripture.

I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture,

and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ.

Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths.

Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them

to all of God's people.

If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org.

I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrough, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi.

God tells us in James 1 -27 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction.

In the providence of God, three years ago, I discovered a poor, small church outside Lusaka, Zambia, in a township called

Cabanana, who are taking care of 24 orphans.

I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.

What was I to do?

Could I just say, God bless you and walk away?

The situation of the children set heavily upon me.

As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.

The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child.

If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need.

Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there, so if you give a dollar, a dollar will get to the orphans.

In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans?

Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi,

39443, or donate through our website, bbclaurel .com.

Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi,

39443, or bbclaurel .com.

Thank you.

Chris Lorenzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio,.

Announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news

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Lending faith, finances, and generosity.

That's the Thriven story.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

My name is Steve Lawson, founder and.

President of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC.

They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www

.ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching,

in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars, a year -round Bible conference and retreat

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Sovereign Grace PBC of San Angelo purposes to center our worship on the Holy Scriptures and the

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sgbcsa .com,.

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Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends, Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley

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Their website is cvbbs .com.

Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work

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That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at cvbbs .com.

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Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's.

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And cvbbs .com is offering the Basics of the Faith booklets at half price.

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Go to cvbbs .com and make sure that when you order these booklets or

anything else from them for that matter, that you click on instructions after you place your

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You can also call cvbbs .com Monday through Friday between 10 a .m. and

4 30 p .m. Eastern Time at 1 -800 -656 -0231.

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And please always remember to tell them that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

And please make an extra effort when you're purchasing gifts for upcoming holidays and

birthdays and anniversaries, all kinds of events, to do shopping at

cvbbs .com because of the fact that they are in a serious financial rut right

now.

Help lift them out of that through your patronage and purchase as many books as you

can.

In fact, you could kill two birds with one stone and help both of my advertisers

that involve books, Solid Ground Christian Books, one of my other advertisers, they are a

publisher and cvbbs .com is a book distributor and cvbbs .com

carries all of Solid Ground Christian Books titles.

So if you go to solid -ground -books .com, solid -ground

-books .com and make a long list of the titles that you want to purchase from them, then

you could go to cvbbs .com and order those books published by Solid Ground Christian Books and

both will be blessed and you'll, as I said, kill two birds with one stone and help

both of my advertisers at the same time.

Before we return to our guests, I just have a couple of announcements to make.

First of all, I am very excited about the upcoming Banner of Truth East

Coast Ministers Conference.

I will be there, God willing, and I hope that you will be there too and I look forward to meeting you if you listen to the

show.

Make it a point to try to find out where I am and we would love to

get to know you and so on.

This is May 26th through May 30th, 2019 in Elizabethtown,

Pennsylvania and this is going to be, I think, a

phenomenal conference featuring Jeff Kingswood, Terry Johnson, David Vaughn,

Steve Nichols, Michael Morales, and Chad Vegas.

That's the East Coast Ministers Conference of the Banner of Truth and to register,

go to banneroftruth .org, banneroftruth .org and

then you can click on events and then click on the East

Coast Ministers Conference.

They also have a West Coast Conference and you could look up more information on that if you happen to live in the West Coast and I know that

many of the listeners in Iron Sharpens Iron Radio's audience are from the West Coast so click

on the event that's closest to you.

Now, this is once again a part of the program that makes me uncomfortable but it needs to be

done.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is in urgent need of your finances.

If you love the show, you don't want it to go away, you listen to it every day, you share the

mp3s with your family, friends, and loved ones which are absolutely free of charge, you love to hear the guests and topics that

we feature on the show that sometimes are never heard anywhere else, then please go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support,

then click to donate now.

That's ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click to donate

now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card and also if you prefer snail mail,

you can send in a check to the address that appears on your screen when you click support

at ironsharpensironradio .com.

Please, as I always try to remind you, never siphon money away from

your regular giving to your local church in order to give to Iron Sharpens Iron

Radio.

Never do that and never put your family in financial jeopardy in order to give

to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Those two things are commands of God providing for your church and your home.

Providing for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is not a command of God, but if you love the show and you're financially blessed above and

beyond your ability to obey those two commands, then please use extra funds that you have

available for benevolent spending.

Please use a portion of those funds to help Iron Sharpens Iron Radio survive

if indeed you love the show.

If you want to advertise with us, send me an email to chrisarenson at gmail .com, chrisarenson at gmail .com and put advertising

in the subject line.

We would love to help you launch an ad campaign as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we

teach and believe here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

You don't have to exactly as I do, but you need to be promoting something that's compatible with

what I believe and what I have presented on the show.

Of course, I don't even always agree with all of my guests, so there is some leeway there,

but you just can't be promoting something that is actually militating against what I believe.

If you do not have a church home and you're not prayerfully looking for one, you're living in rebellion against

God.

So if you need help finding a church home, and I have helped a number of people find

a church home.

In fact, I just helped a brother who is visiting Hawaii.

I believe he's visiting one of his children who lives in Hawaii.

He contacted me to find a church in Honolulu, and I found a biblically faithful Reformed

Baptist church for him to visit, and he was very happy after he went there for worship

services.

But wherever you live on the planet Earth, if you need help finding a church, I can help find you

a church.

I have many lists of biblically faithful churches all over the globe.

So just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I need a church home or something similar

in the subject line.

Well, we are now back with our guest today.

In fact, if you want to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson

at gmail .com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And please, as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your

country of residence.

If you live outside of the good old USA, please only remain anonymous.

If your question involves a personal and private matter, if you just tuned us in, our guests today are Dr. Matthew D. Arney,

who is Associate Professor of Biblical Studies for the College of Adult and Graduate Studies at

Colorado Christian University, and Dr. Donald E. Hartley, who is Adjunct

Professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at Regent University.

And today we are addressing the book that they co -authored together.

And that book is titled The Righteous and Merciful Judge, The Day of the Lord in the Life and

Theology of the Apostle Paul.

And although the word apostle is not in the title.

Give us an email if you have a question at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Before we go into more questions from me,

just wanted to have a listener question read to you.

We have Susan in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania.

And she says, how would you react to those who think that it is very

dangerous to assume that there are many fulfillments of very

important texts in the Bible, when people can use that

information to nullify the more important fulfillments of those texts, which are future?

Well, it could be either of you.

And is this Dr. Hartley?

Yes.

Okay.

Well, the first answer is not

every, you know, like the

Exodus event, and yet it serves,

I mean, the resurrection of the redemption of our body.

How was that the idea

of I'm not denying any more

than I would say that because we believe in all the

ultimate fulfillment of who were anointed by God.

So in some sense, but I'm talking about people that were

serving God, they were true messiahs in that sense, validate or

mitigate against the future necessarily.

And of course, if you go ahead, I'm sorry.

Yeah, I was gonna say, I would agree with Don

wholeheartedly.

I think the

Don wholeheartedly.

And of course, if you believe something is true,.

You can't keep your mouth shut about things you believe are true, just because some

people are going to run wild with the information and twist it.

And, you know, so therefore, that's obviously our guests, Susan,

Margaret, are, you know, teaching, are teaching and writing about something they

believe to be true.

So obviously, it is their duty.

And if somebody could please stop washing dishes while we're talking here, there's a lot of rattling going on.

There, there is, obviously, that's their duty, they're compelled to speak upon

that which they believe is a proper exegesis of the God breathed words of the Bible.

But if you give us your full mailing address in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, we will send you a free copy

of the book that we have been addressing today.

So make sure that you give us the full mailing address in Dauphin County, and you'll

get in the mail compliments of not only the publishers, Lexham Press, but also compliments of our friends at

CVBBS.

You'll get a free copy of The Righteous and Merciful Judge, The Day of the Lord in the Life and Theology of Paul.

Before we go on to another, another question from a

listener, The Righteous and Merciful

Judge.

These are aspects of, of the whole counsel of God

that the church today fails to give a clear picture of

both.

Obviously, a church can be guilty of overemphasis

of the judgment of God, the wrath of God, without speaking of his

grace and his mercy.

And you today, really, I think, predominantly have the opposite problem

of people emphasizing his mercy, his love, his grace, but those words even become

meaningless.

Because if you don't know about the judgment and wrath of God, you can't really appreciate

the mercy and love and grace of God.

And of course, if you don't talk about his righteousness, which many

Christian authors and speakers today do not emphasize even that, because they try

to bring down Jesus Christ to more of an equal level with

all of us.

And of course, he was fully man, in addition to being fully God.

I don't want to take away from that, but I think that you probably understand what I'm talking about.

Jesus Christ is not our buddy.

But if you could respond to what I said, isn't this important to have both aspects of what we're discussing today?

The Righteous and Merciful Judge.

Exactly.

Yes,

in

fact, I love a quote by Paul Washer that I

just recently saw.

And I don't have it in front.

Of me.

So I apologize to Brother Washer, if I'm not getting the words exactly as you wrote them or

said them.

But he said, people often say to me, judge not,

lest ye be judged.

And I respond to them, twist not the scripture, lest ye be like Satan.

Right, exactly.

Well, there is a chapter in your book about the day of the Lord in

extra canonical literature, which is obviously writings outside

of that which is God -breathed.

And why is this important, first of all, to have an understanding of this topic in

extra canonical literature?

Oh, I'm sorry, Matt, if you could, I keep forgetting I'm talking to two people here.

The

Qumran community

live on that.

You know, we survey

the works that

the Dead

Sea Scrolls,

Great Judgment Day, when God

would come back

and make all

things right.

And so we see that motif carried with it.

And so it's pretty fascinating to see just

the end to the intertestamental

literature.

Now, obviously, you know, sampling in

a good service.

And of course, we have to reiterate that these citations,

when you're when you're considering extra canonical literature, we are not to view this as God

-breathed.

There are serious problems, for instance, with the deuterocanonical or apocryphal books,

even teaching things such as prayer for the dead and other things.

So we have to be careful not to be looking at this stuff, even if it may be helpful historical

literature.

We cannot view it as that which.

Comes from the breath of God.

We're using this

literature, I like

how you said mythologically and even culturally.

All right, we're going to go ahead, brother,.

There's some suffering by God, the odyssey, you know, the presence of

evil and how God's right

vindicated.

And the war, you know, the two long scrolls of the war, they

imitated when they

speak of a war of the sons of light with the sons of darkness.

He talks about we're not a day of

the Lord in the future,

supposed to be

engaged of ideas, mainly

influence and

complacent.

They're impinging upon the present time, including the fact that we're raised with

Christ, we're seated in the heavenlies, and we're reigning with him.

We're in a new age.

We're

trying to describe it.

You know, what's going on

here?

We're going

to take a question from another

listener,.

And we'll have you answer it when we return.

The questioner is Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who

wants to know, forgive me if you've addressed this, but how dangerous do you two men

believe the extreme form of preterism that is out there really is?

Should we look at it lightly and consider these men and women are brethren, or

should we warn them that they are teaching something damning?

And we'll have you address that when we return from our final break.

This is a much more brief break than the other break, the last break, I

should say.

So if you want to send us a question and you want to get in line with those already waiting, do so immediately, because we're rapidly

running out of time.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

Lynbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lynbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in

the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages, enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and

together.

Hi,.

I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Lynbrook Baptist Church.

And see all that a church can be.

Call Lynbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402.

That's 516 -599 -9402.

Or visit lynbrookbaptist .org.

That's lynbrookbaptist .org.

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ, staff and volunteers meet with young people

who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban, and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

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Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

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youths in need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385

-8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333.

Or visit lyyfc .org.

That's lyyfc .org.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia,.

For am I now seeking the approval of man or of God, or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, Pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostle's priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

love.

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They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching,

in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, and we are going to be off the air in 10.

Minutes.

So if you have a question for Dr. Matthew Arney and Dr. Donald

Hartley about our discussion today on The Righteous and Merciful Judge, The Day of the

Lord in the Life and Theology of Paul, please send in your email now to chrisarnzen at gmail .com,

chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

And both of you men, if you could respond to Ronald who wants to know

your thoughts on hyper -preterism, and that is obviously, as you both know, not a monolithic group,

but I think all of it is very dangerous and heretical myself, and you have

varying views and varying levels of extremeness.

You even have some hyper -preterists who don't believe that the church exists today.

They don't participate in the ordinances of Christ, and of course, they rob Christians of the

hope of a future resurrection, a bodily resurrection of the saints.

But if you could, in your own words, respond to the question on how severe, if severe at all, you believe

this to be.

It looks to me to be immunotized

against the second coming of Christ that

happened in 70 A .D., so therefore there's a

very key thing here.

I'm saying that if

someone denies us, as

in like the way you saw Christ leave, he'll come back,

so it's my dad.

Now, is it possible that these people are Christians?

I don't know.

It's possible, but I can't say they are.

Like first Christians, he didn't deny

they were either.

You're erring here, and if you admit you're

erring, it's one of the marks of a Christian.

It doesn't matter

how important it is, if you're shown what scripture teaches, and you know what it teaches, and you

deny it, you're lost.

Significant it is, but if you say this, who can say no, Lord?

Okay, you can't do that as a Christian.

Whatever the scripture teaches.

Now, there's a possibility, for example,

you know, in 2 Thessalonians, they thought the days of the

Lord, but they understood that they, in a sense,

immunotized wrong about certain

mythology issues.

It may be

embraced

by a

Christian, but once they're told the truth about this,

now it's a matter of you're denying what.

Scripture teaches.

Yes, and this would be a unique case, unlike other eschatological views.

I'm sure you're not saying our historical pre -mill brethren are lost, our

dispensationalist brethren are lost, etc., etc.

You're just saying that, of course, this is something unique because it is denying very

crucial truths, like, as I was saying before, the future bodily resurrection of the

saints and, of course, the damned as well are going to be raised for judgment, but am I right

in the way I've just described it?

Yes, the book that's written here.

We have Mary in Cork, Ireland, who asks,

are there any other prominent Christians from the past or present who would agree with

the majority of what you've written in this book, or is there anything.

Novel?

Don, if

you

don't mind, I would

say there's, you know, all of

that discourse, more

contemporary writers, I mean, one person that pops into my mind is G .K.

Beale.

These things

along the lines of, as Don and I do, and the way, what

is novel, you know, I think there's several features of the book

that are novel, and I think, you know, obviously Don

can add to this, but I,

is the chapter on,

you know, I've argued that

we're wrong here,

but

from

what I've

looked

at making that

argument, it is novel, really

novel, I mean, I have mentioned Dr. Meredith

Klein has wrote on this several times, that

he's coming to judge, that's typically

what I'm trying to make

novel for novel's sake, I'm just

saying, I've taken this idyllic little breezy day,.

It might be another way to look at that.

And by the way, if anybody wants to look up in the archives of

Iron Trip and Zion Radio, our previous interviews with Dr. Gregory Beale, and it's spelled B

as in boy, E -A -L -E, just go to irontripandzionradio .com and go to past shows, podcast,

and type in his last name, B as in boy, E -A -L -E.

Well, we are out of time now, if you could summarize what you most want etched in the

hearts and minds of our listeners today, and we'll.

Start

with Dr.

Hartley, and then

we'll end with

our other

guest

here.

And Dr.

Arnie,

you

have 30

seconds.

Yeah, I

would echo wholeheartedly

everything, Dr. Hartley, because one day, every knee will bow and confess

and do that now gladly, or you will do it.

Amen.

And for more.

Information about this book and other books by Lexham Press, go to lexhampress .com, L -E -X

-H -A -M press .com, or go to cvbbs .com and place your order there,

cvbbs .com.

I want to thank both of you for being such excellent guests.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.