Paul Popov on Communism and Christianity in Bulgaria and the United States

Communism as a Spiritual and Political Threat

Welcome to the conversations that matter podcast. My name is John Harris. I have a very special guest with me today. I'm actually very excited about this interview with Paul Popov and he is going to be sharing a little bit about his ministry about his experience in Bulgaria and his father's experience there and What communism did not only to his country but to the church and how it infiltrated the church?

And then I'm gonna see if we can pick his brain about some of the things going on in the United States in the Western World, so mr. Popov. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Books, Testimony, and the Practical Reality of Communism

Well to start off tell us a little bit about yourself and your ministry and and I know you're showing me some books. Why don't you show me the books that you have that people can purchase if they want to know more?

Someone will unfortunately like this book here I was a communist prisoner published by Sondheim publishing house many years ago is unfortunately not available any longer but it was a very Big thorn in the flesh of communism because it actually does not deal with the theoretical part of communism but what communism really is the practical aspect.

My father used to say I Not only know communism theoretically because he was in job indoctrinated in it in the in the prison during the time when they were trying to Convert the Christians into believing in communism instead.

But I have experienced it in my life and therefore I know the truth. Jesus as you know says it by the fruit you shall know them. Absolutely. Yeah, another book that has been very popular around the world 25 different languages is the tortured for his faith.

Which I would like to make available to people in North America who are interested in reading about this story and they can maybe contact us through the website or through email or through Phone conversation.

We can give them the information later and I'll be happy to to send them a copy of that book because we believe that people need to know what Communism is in reality not in theoretical speeches. And today I would say United States is Closer to communism than it has ever been in the history in the 30s.

There was many who tried to bring communism to United States. The Communist Party USA made many inroads in the church, especially in the So-called liberal churches in the East Coast but It was never a success.

They tried very hard many people joined them, but it was not Nationwide movement today. I see signs that makes me a little bit more nervous now.

Signs of Communism in the United States

We can let's talk about that and then we'll get into the story of growing up in Bulgaria. But what are the signs that you just mentioned in the United States that that you're seeing. As someone growing up in communism that you say.

Wait a minute. That sounds familiar or looks like communism. Well, it is.

In in Communism in Marxism as you know Marx who? kind of invented the word and the term of how People should become liberated and the proletariat should be free from the capitalistic yoke. He was not just a political economical philosopher.

Because he was a Christian when he was a young teenager. He when he went to college 18 years of age. He turned into something totally opposite and that Studying of that which I have done because Marx and Stalin are the two people who have influenced my life Unfortunately more than anybody else because I was without the father for 15 years.

And it is difficult for me to talk about that to be honest with you but I can tell you that my study of Marxism has led to believe that he is a Satanist and that he became a devil's Enthusiastic worker and as such he turned socialism, which was originally a Christian idea and There was many Christians who believed in socialism in the late 1700 and early 1800 and the socialist Movement was a very peaceful movement in the beginning till Marx took it over and Engels and a few other people who was flirting with satanistic occultic activities and that is when it became a dangerous and militant and and and became how to say it grabbed hold of certain people in the world and As you probably do not know from 1860 1870 when they really got the power through Lenin 1917 until 1977 they were able to conquer and there was a socialist communist governments in half of the world like half of the world's population.

Some people even say 60 of the world's population in the late 70s was living under a communist government. Wow. So it is a satanic evil spiritual we can also talk about a Cult because this violent satanic cult Have Have Been the number one enemy of the true church.

People ask why did it happen and how come. Well the fact is that the churches Especially in the Eastern Bloc the Soviet Union later what it was Russia at that time was a dead church. The spiritual vitality of the church was not there.

It was an organization Affiliated with the Tsar with the state and a part of the oppressive system. That is the danger for the church today when I see the church in United States today Where money is the God rather than the gospel?

I get very sad and I realized that death is a very dangerous Road if the church is not strong. Which I see in some sectors in this country there that is a fertile ground for socialism and communism to grow.

Because the socialist cult is a copy of Christianity, but devilish. They talk about the little poor people. The oppressed people they talk about black people who are oppressed. They talk about other issues in society.

That is not totally good. We know that there is always bad things in every society that needs to be improved upon and so forth, but they take a very skillful advantage of that and Take that to an extreme and then when they have the power and that's what I would like to talk about how Gradually, they were able to manipulate themselves into power in all the Eastern European countries while They had the power in in what was Soviet Union in the 30s as you know, Stalin was not exactly Nice person one of the most ruthless Killer of people in the world and I am considering him more ruthless than even Mao Zedong.

Stalin did probably Kill about 80 million people. Mao Zedong killed only a 60 million this is Why? We have to be concerned. We have to be watchful and we have to make sure that our churches are Vital and Thinking in such a way that they can prevent the socialist communist agenda rather than be an instrument of it.

How Communists Infiltrated Bulgaria from Within

Well speaking of being an instrument of the socialist communist agenda I want to get back to the United States and how you think this is playing out. But first tell me a little bit about Bulgaria and just your personal experience there.

What your father experienced. How is it that the Marxists were able to? Infiltrate churches and then I guess persuade some Christians to accept the tenets of their belief. How did this all play out in your situation?

We have to go back a few years.

It started out by the fact that they wanted to export they want to liberate Quotation mark the working class. So the revolution in Soviet Union 1917 had to be exported to other countries for that purpose.

They invited people and they had special training centers and one is in a Siberian city of Ufa. Where they invited people from all the Eastern European nations like Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia Poland and Hungary etc.

And they were there to be trained and the training was how to infiltrate a country from within. Not to attack it with military guns and weapons and and and take over the country. Communism is much smarter than that.

They didn't kill people right away. They had a trial first and they wanted to make the propaganda work. And that's why the Cold War is is a propaganda war and and they were very skillful in especially for many many years how they could broadcast their propaganda around the world the The method that they use To train those people in various places and then they use thousands of those trained individuals in Socialism and communism to become tools to go inside the country and take over each country from Within in Bulgaria.

It was they were called partisans and they went there to fight and deliver liberate Bulgaria from the German occupation. During the Second World War Bulgaria was occupied by Germany like Germany was Doing in many other countries so that was the positive side that so many people helped them and Gave them food and helped them in with the infrastructure and so forth till then when the when the when the Western power defeated the Germans and Hitler then they left and who there was a power vacuum the Political parties in Bulgaria the number one party the biggest party with the agricultural party Nikolai Petkov.

He was realizing very clearly that the communists who now had a political party wanted to take the power and wanted to have the position of the United Front the Government and they wanted the position of the interior minister.

The Minister of Interior are the one who is in charge of security and the police force and things like that and he fought very hard already in 1944 according to documents that I recently found in the National Archive in Sweden in Stockholm I just saw the telegrams between the Swedish Embassy and and But in Bulgaria and Swedish foreign ministry in Stockholm and I have read all of the documents in the.

Because we are hoping to make a movie one day we are hoping to be able to to put some of the methods of how the communists took power in the movie the movie about my father's life and so forth. This Was Not successful because in 45 the Red Army entered into Bulgaria to liberate us officially from the Germans and Because they were in the country the secret police who was trained very carefully by Stalin in Ufa and Leningrad and other places they were able to manipulate everything so that they were able to get the interior ministry position and therefore control over the secret police and the control of the police was the instrument that then the good people were killed off in various ways and they were gradually like a Slicing the salami one piece by piece.

And they were able to control the whole country and that is when the show trials started in 46 47 the Stalin had already perfected them in Soviet Union. I just read recently that he started with the show trials Already in the late 1920s and it was just after he took the power after Lenin's death and it is Unbelievable how Skillful they made those show trials to look like a real trial so that the people that the general opinion of the country with was sympathetic to Stalin's and neighbors.

So in 1948 my dad was arrested together with 15 other leading Evangelical Christian Protestant pastors Early in the morning at 4 o 'clock. They knocked on the door and as they always go in and ransacked the home looking for evidence.

My mom was very frightened I was still sleeping my sister cried and for after four hours of Searching for documents and paperwork papers, etc Letters they took my dad away and promised that he will soon come back.

But he didn't come back he didn't come back for 15 years. They took him to secret police headquarter and and there were the training that the secret police had received in Soviet Union was Taking place.

They had my dad write long long long letters day and night Telling exactly his life's story who he met where he was what year he was where and so forth and so on and then they went to those people who he mentioned in the letters in the in the writing and Took them and interrogated them and then they Threatened them that they had to participate.

Otherwise, their family members and relatives would be killed and By threatening a lot of people like that. They were able to conduct a trial in the 1948 49 and then This the trial were lasted for about 10 days everybody looked like they were a real Judge real Prosecutor a real defense lawyer everything looked on the paper like it was a real trial of somebody who had done spying for United States and England on behalf of those two countries against the Soviet Union and the fatherland Bulgaria so everything on the paper and so far looked like it was a real trial of real people who had Who confessed that they were spies and not pastors and that is the devilish method of Communism that they are so skillful in not only perfecting lies But also spreading them and distributing them.

This is why they are so dangerous and when I see that in this country Especially among young people who do not know the real history and do not know the real face of communism I'm a little bit worried.

Church Infiltration, Fear, and the Rise of Younger Communist-Friendly Leaders

Yeah, that makes perfect sense I was hoping. If you wouldn't mind, can you expand a little on the infiltration from within you talked about? So obviously we're not at the point yet where pastors are being Treated in the way your father was treated yet.

We could get there but Before that happened. Did you see? Socialism coming into the churches there to persuade Christians to follow socialists agenda.

Well, the the ministers the leading minister the head of the Evangelical Alliance people were called up to them to the new minute the communist minister of religious affairs and Said to him now you have to play by our book.

It's a new time in Bulgaria. And if you participate in our endeavors and building communism in these countries, everything will be fine. But if you refuse I cannot guarantee that you will be alive. So they went back and discussed with them.

What shall we do? We can be can we as Christians join an atheistic organization like the communism was and everybody knew that they were. Their agenda had to very much to do with with destroying All religion not only Christianity all religion and to build an atheistic paradise.

Communism was supposed to be an atheistic paradise. The Pastors agreed that they will not Participate in that they said we are simple pastors. We don't have any political ambitions. We want you to leave the church alone and we will do our spiritual work and social work and do good In our society, but we do not have any in Interesting in proclaiming atheism or communism in our churches and so they were therefore arrested one by one all 15 of them, including my uncle Ladin and Instead of being accused of not being cooperative with the Communist Party they were accused of being spies and and traitors and economic dealings and other issues that they Found evidence for through the witnesses that they had brainwashed as well.

So the 18 8 months of torture that father had in the beginning in the secret police Made him confess that he was a spy for America and that was a big blow to the church because many people now realized I wouldn't say that they realized that they were spies.

But they were afraid that they were not clean people and the church was in a turmoil. Many people believe this other people believe that The end result and the purpose for all these short trials has always been for the communism to be a total totalitarian society.

The Marxist Philosophy builds on the state should run everything. The state is the supreme power not God. The state must Control every facets of society and therefore That is the only way to build communism and the ultra the the future paradise on earth, which will be the result of many years of socialist upbringing and propaganda so Socialism is a the step to the utopian communism the atheistic paradise here on earth and of course the pastors who was How to say brainwashed in prison and believed in the cooperation with the communist government Became the leaders of the various denominations so Zaharoff became the head of the Pentecostal movement and other people became the head of the Baptist and Methodist and Congregational churches and through these people the secret police then controlled the churches.

They didn't want to ban the churches. They were too smart for that. They wanted the church to build and help them build the communist society and that is the danger that is how the infiltration in the churches took place by putting their people on all positions and having informer on every level informers that that if somebody did not sound Correctly and help the communist cause that person disappeared.

So was it more popular this strategy with young people in the churches than it was with older people or it was everyone equally.

Prone to this kind I would say because of the fear that communism Installed in the churches and in society in general because of all the killings. They killed maybe two three hundred thousand people in the in the beginning of the communist takeover of Bulgaria Country of seven million people you can understand that almost half a million is a big chunk of the people.

So many people knew Their relatives were shot or killed or disappeared and and fear struck the church. And it was mostly among the older people that that that happened. The young people were Infiltrated.

They were not as much afraid but they Believed that communism was not such a bad that they could live with it. And they will it will work out and to the better.

So they were more accommodating to it the younger people. Okay. So this is this is interesting what you're bringing up because I mean, I'm already seeing parallels myself. You have the goal being this utopia today in the United States.

This is called some kind of equity or equality that we can bring about through government action and you have it's an atheistic idea like like the critical theories and things that are being propagated now, but Christians are.

Atheism is on the rise. That is an alarming fact.

Yeah, it well it is. Secularism in general is on the rise in the in this country. But but Christians as long as they go along It's fine. It seems as though that as long as you're with the revolution then you can you can have your antiquated beliefs in God.

But you've got to be with the revolution and then if you refuse there there are false accusations and we've already seen this with some Christian leaders where they'll be called things names like racist or misogynist or some of the terms in our country that are popular to tar and feather someone with and and then they're replaced with younger leaders who are With the revolution on some level and and that's what I'm seeing.

What are you seeing when you look at the situation right now in the United States. Things like the Black Lives Matter movement what Antifa is doing to the urban areas of this country the me too movement from a few years ago and how sexism became such a Common thing to accuse someone of.

Are you seeing parallels just? Different parallels, but but but the same kind of thing.

The same forces kind of a combination of anarchism and communism They these forces were very active in in tsarist russia from 1870 to revolution in nine 1905 and and even later those uprising or those mini revolutions were common um common happening in those societies not only in in russia, but also in germany and other other countries and that is a precursor that instability that that brings is a Great danger and we Must be aware of it.

But that is what we see. What is even more dangerous is the what you do not see? The manipulation behind the scene the the the Removal of christian people on certain positions like in the the justice system or in other places where they find other reasons to To give them a hard time.

Those are are equally dangerous because they affect more people than the Um Fighting on the streets, which is fairly local. Okay. Now that's fascinating is more visual and you can see it and you can you can you can have opinion about it.

But the underground movement of secular atheism and secular humanism is more dangerous where they don't allow us to preach to to to pray in school where they act on behalf of uh people of destroying lives Life doesn't matter.

Uh, it is it is not as important, you know, uh, the the communists when they killed A few million people they didn't have a quorum about it. It was It was just another enemy life that was there was uh Gone, uh, it was nothing special the sacred life that we christians believe in Does not exist in this kind of atheistic Communistic societies and that is what is creeping in in united states today the the no respect for life.

And it's interesting because you have slogans like black lives matter it sounds like there is a respect for life but it's it seems like it's more of a group mentality that uh, there's a certain group which there's some they're not equal in some way because of.

Whatever reason they bring up at the time. Uh, they're suffering at greater levels because of covid or whatever and so they bring that up to to create a wedge. But you're saying they don't really care about life um.

They're they're they care about the group. Uh, this. Okay. Um, what would you say? If you could go back to bulgaria, uh, knowing what you know now if you could have gone back as a boy. What would you have warned the church to do?

In order to stem the tide and prepare themselves for communism.

Learning History, Understanding Satan's Methods, and Keeping the Church Out of the State

By learning about what is happening in other countries and what history has to teach us. This was a lack only a few of the leaders who was really well educated and and knew what was happening, but the the general population and the general, uh, Members of the churches were very ignorant unfortunately, and that is the problem we need to be aware Of the world.

We are not a part of the world but we need to be aware of the world as christians and and in this respect the the Uh, the the the thing that I usually say that we need to understand satan's methods. Satan is using many different kind of ism.

Communism is one of them militant islam is another one and this ism needs to be Not only Studied but also Thoroughly investigated in depth in order for for people to be.

Like vaccinated against it. I hear you. So so prepare yourselves by Understanding and then also, uh coming comparing, uh The communism and whatever else ism is out there to the truth of the god's word and prepare to defend against those attacks.

We are as a church have made mistakes over the hundreds of years since jesus the last two thousand years one of the mistakes the church Did in the middle ages was to become a government. That is we are supposed to be a salt.

We are supposed to be a light. We are not supposed to be a part of the world. So although it is important that we have christian Parliamentarians or senators or congressmen That is important. But for the christianity to be the governing body like the roman church Uh, the roman catholic church was in the middle ages is dangerous.

And that's why we have to be careful. The church is a spiritual body. Not a political movement and the political movement has to be done in with other avenues. We are people who Want to be the salt and we want to be the light and we want to shine the light as bright as possible in our societies.

To warn people from Dictatorships. To warn people from when they are Going away from what the bible teaches.

Door of Hope International, Bible Printing, and Broadcasting the Gospel

Awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing this. Uh, Now your your website is dohi .org door of hope international and you said that people can go there and they can get a copy. Or they give them they give you their address.

They can get a copy. Of uh tortured for his faith. Is that correct? That is correct.

Uh, especially if they are in north america where postage is reasonable because it costs us a Little bit of money to print the books and then the postage is expensive. So if they would like to read this is a fascinating story that has been published in 25 different languages around the world.

Actually as we speak right now, it is being published in pakistan in urdu language. And we want the people there to know what true communism is. It is going to be published in a few months Or maybe a few weeks I should say in uh in lebanon in the arabic language, so We are spreading this book and by reading and supporting this work of ours.

You are Warning people around the world for what what threats satan has in their society and usually Atheism and communism is one of the more popular isms. Militant islam is now In my opinion on the way back and when the way out.

Take for example sudan. As we speak right now sudan has overthrown their militant islamic leader and they are Becoming a more pluralistic society where christianity will be tolerated and the churches will be still Being open.

So it is kind of the first country which had a militant islamic government and now we are pushing back and bringing democracy pluralism and Love back to a country. We hope that people will pray for sudan because They are not over the hump yet.

And that uh that god's people's prayers will will um help that country to become a Democratic nation built on on the values that we christians adhere to.

Door of Hope International’s Ministry to Persecuted Christians

Why don't you take one minute? Just tell us a little bit about your ministry door of hope international if people want to go and donate or support you.

The beginning of our work was threefold we were an Advocacy and I started in 1951 to travel in churches in europe. I lived in stockholm, sweden. Uh together with my mom and we spoke in churches. Asking people to remember to pray for father and ladin and other pastors who were in prison in communist countries so in the 1963 when the father survived the communist gulag and unfortunately Unfortunately, he was not able to leave bulgaria so he was out of one prison uh to a bigger prison called bulgaria and the communist said that you will never be Allowed to leave and he was able to Finally through a miracle leave bulgaria and come to sweden in 1963.

And the first thing he told me I was then 20 years old and a journalist for a newspaper in in stockholm. Uh paul, can you help me to print bibles? We don't have any bibles in bulgaria. So I worked with the We our newspaper was printed in a in a press which also printed bible.

So I contacted evangelia press in in in urubru and they were able to print Our bulgarian new testament and the ukrainian new testament and that's how the work started in sweden. A very important part of our work at that time was shortwave broad radio broadcasting.

Which we did in russian bulgarian and chinese over transworld radio in monte carlo and ibra radio and Febc in manila and and the soviet union was basically The target because there was an iron curtain.

We were able to bring the gospel over the iron curtain inside those countries and that Made the communists very very angry. Uh, so bible printing became the second big and the radio broadcasting using the media so Already at that time We knew the media was an important part of distributing and telling people about jesus christ and asking people to repent.

Today, we are using the media Transworld radio and shortwave broadcasting is not as critical any longer as we can now broadcast the Radio over the radio waves and also through the internet. Today we are very heavy on together with the ministry in canada to Reach the people in iran with the gospel and it is through the internet and many many other places in the world is receiving not only broadcasting um Teaching but also the word of god itself through small chips that they put in their telephones where they can listen to sermons as well as as listen to to the word of god Spoken to them in their native language.

I'm thinking especially of eritrea, which is the most Horrible country in the world from religious freedom point of view. North korea is considered the number one Dictatorship and persecuting persecution of christians, but eritrea in my opinion is number two the dictator there is making it very very difficult for believers and we Strongly believe that we must help those people who are persecuted for their faith.

And that is one of the main thing that I am doing when I travel around the world is finding out How to help those people what is their need and then how we can address it. It is not only bibles it is not only the word of god in a in a form of a memory chip, but it is also food and clothing and School for their children, etc.

We work now both in communist country as well as in muslim countries iran iraq pakistan eritrea and other places are. Are our target countries for us? Turkey, as you know is becoming a dictatorship and and We have a strong influence in that because bulgaria is so close to turkey and we have an office in bulgaria as well as well as in australia, we have office in england in in france and south africa and canada, etc.

Well, well that that is awesome. Um Mr popov, I appreciate you giving me some of your time and Just a clarion call to warn the church here in the united states and western world to beware of what happened in places like bulgaria.

Um, I I do encourage my supporters and my listeners who are listening to this right now to go To the website it is dohi .org dwarf hope international and you can request a copy Of torture for his faith and find out more what dwarf hope international is doing.

Mr. Popov. Thank you so much. Once again.

Thank you for inviting me and giving me this opportunity to spread the word. Yeah. God bless you. God bless you. Bye.