December 7, 2018 Show with Martyn McGeown on “Grace & Assurance: The Message of the Canons of Dordt”

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth

who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this

seventh day of December 2018.

I'm so delighted to have back as a returning guest today, Martin McGeown.

He is author and pastor of Limerick Reform Fellowship in Limerick City, Ireland,

and we are going to be addressing the theme of his new book, Grace and Assurance, The Message of the Canons

of Dort, a publication of the Reform Free Publishing Association.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Martin McGeown.

Thank you very much, Chris.

Now, since the last time we spoke, has my pronunciation of your last name deteriorated or is

it still spot on?

It's still very good.

Okay.

I'm glad to hear that.

Before we go into our discussion today on Grace and Assurance, The Message of the Canons of Dort,

tell our listeners again about Limerick Reform Fellowship in Limerick City, Ireland.

Yeah, the Limerick Reform Fellowship is...

Great.

And one of the things that is

an important factor of the Limerick Reform Fellowship is obviously our discussion today,

the Canons of Dort.

And of the Canons of Dort, for those of our listeners who are unfamiliar with the Canons of

Dort, they are a third of the three forms of unity, the confessional

standards of many Reform Christians, but perhaps especially those that come from the

Dutch branch of the Reformation.

And as some of my Irish listeners may call them, the tree farms of

unity.

What kind of trees did they grow on this farm?

Tell our listeners more about the three forms of unity, and specifically the Canons of Dort.

Yes.

Praise God.

And how would you say that the three forms of

unity, or perhaps more specifically the Belgic Confession, would be

different from the Westminster standards?

And well, let's start with the caveat

regarding confessions themselves.

We have brothers in Christ who would agree with us

on our opposition to the Church of Rome, but unfortunately some of them go

too far in this by associating anyone who uses

extra -biblical creeds and confessions like we do, and they would say that we

are adding to the Word of God, we are putting another authority equal to the Word of God,

but these charges are absolutely false, aren't they?

Oh, absolutely.

Yes.

In fact, any time you explain what you believe the Bible teaches, you are

providing your hearers with a creed or confession, whether you want to call it that or not.

Especially, and most of these churches that are anti -confessional do have track racks,

and they give out tracks, and the tracks are very often containing a

creedal or confessional statement, even though the Church might not call it that.

They believe in the Church.

Yes, and those that say that we do not believe in any

creed but Christ, no confession but the Bible, if they are

going to be consistent and logical in their argument, if they have a pastor that ascends into the pulpit,

what he should do is just open up the Bible, read it, and then sit down.

Yes, and not do any exegesis.

All right.

Well, tell us about some of the reasons, I mean, you've already given a couple, but

some more reasons why it is wise for churches to not only have

creeds and confessions, but obviously a creed or a confession only has value

if it's biblically accurate and faithful.

So that is why many churches in the Reformed community have adopted creeds and

confessions that are centuries old, including the three forms of unity.

What further value, other than making sure that your pastor or the

preacher at the congregation where you are a member is faithfully following the Word,

because you're going to be checking as a Berean to make sure that he is in

alignment with what that particular congregation believes are the

primary teachings of importance that can be gleaned from the Scriptures.

And so, other than that initial great asset

that having a creed or confession that is biblically faithful is to the body of Christ, tell us

about some more reasons why a church might use or adopt officially a creed or a

confession.

Three forms of unity.

Right.

But Reformed people, having said that, Reformed people, if they are

faithful to the Scriptures and also faithful to their own Reformed heritage, we do believe in sola scriptura,

but believing that the Bible is the sole inerrant and infallible authority over the church

does not negate the use of creeds and confessions.

Absolutely.

Yes, wouldn't you...

It's not

enough to say...

Yes, and we have seen what an opposition to the

creeds and confessions, historic ones, has done.

I'm sure that you probably have some familiarity with Harold Camping, who was the

founder of Family Radio.

He came from a similar background to the both of us, perhaps even more

closely connected to your background.

I know that you're not in the Christian Reformed Church, but obviously the Protestant Reformed Churches have

the same heritage initially as the...

They came out of the Christian Reformed Church, yeah.

Right, and Harold Camping was an elder in that denomination, and yet Harold Camping was

anti -confessional, at least he became anti -confessional at some point during his life and

developed all kinds of insane ideas that had no place in the history of the church in recorded

history.

Yes, absolutely.

Oh, wow.

Great.

Well, I don't know if you're aware of this, but I interviewed the current president, Tom Evans of Family

Radio, and they have repented publicly of their

defending and declaring Harold Camping's heresies, and they have purged the airwaves

in their network from any presence of Harold Camping.

Oh, that's good.

Because they were airing recordings of him for a while, even after his death, but they have become,

once again, a sound Reformed source for good

preaching and teaching information.

Can you tell us some of the characteristics of the Canons of Dort?

Yes, a lot of people may be unaware of the fact that the Armenians had their Five Points

before the TULIP acronym was developed, of the Five Points of Calvinism.

The Five Points of Calvinism, although they were believed by the Reformed Christians

since the beginning of the Reformation, and of course, we would say the disciples of Christ

centuries going back to the New Testament era believed in these things.

But the Five Points of Calvinism, as you know, are total depravity,

unconditional election, limited atonement, which has also been called definite atonement,

also has been called particular redemption, and substitutionary

atonement, although today many Armenians are using the phrase substitutionary atonement, but they really don't have any basis

to use that term if they're going to be logically consistent, irresistible grace,

and the perseverance and the preservation of the saints.

Now, these doctrines

drive us to our knees in humility before God, or at least they should,

because we all know some arrogant and proud Calvinists, but they should drive us to our knees regarding that we are

dependent upon God for everything, especially that which

involves our own faith, which involves our own regeneration, which involves our own

entrance into heaven after we depart this earth, whereas the Armenians, perhaps

some beginning with noble motives, were trying to protect the character of

God, they thought, and therefore in order to put 100 of

the blame on man for sin, they also unfortunately give man far too much

credit for their salvation, don't they?

Well,

what I'd

like

to do

is I'd

like

to

go to

our first break,

and

then when we

return.

We will begin examining in summary form, obviously, the first head of doctrine on divine

predestination.

This seems to be the most difficult

doctrine for our brothers and sisters in Christ who are not sharing,

at least yet in their lives, our belief and understanding of the doctrines of sovereign grace.

They very often have a caricature of it that is not

only biblical, but it's also not even what the reformers and the great confessions

and creeds of the reformed faith teach about predestination.

It's an invention of either their own minds or the minds of those who they have read

who have hated and despised these doctrines.

They often equate the understanding of

predestination with equal ultimacy, and there are other things that they mix and muddle

together that prevents them from embracing this.

In fact, ironically, I have had conversations with many Arminians or those

who reject Calvinism who think that the doctrine of predestination does the opposite

of what we are saying.

They believe it is the opposite of God's demonstration of grace, and they say that it

robs men of assurance.

That's, once again, because they have an unbiblical and unhistorical or ahistorical understanding

of predestination.

But when we return, we will begin with that.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of their own, for Martin McGown,

our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail

.com.

Please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you

live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

So don't go away.

God willing, we will be back with Martin McGown and our discussion on grace and assurance, the message of

the Canons of Dort, right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Hi,

Phil Johnson here.

I'm executive director of John MacArthur's media ministry, Grace to You, and I'm also an occasional guest

on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, so I'm delighted that my friend Chris Arnzen and I will be heading

down to Atlanta for the G3 conference where I'll be joining James White, Steve Lawson,

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than 90 minutes to go is

Martin McGowan.

He is an author and he's also the pastor at Limerick Reform Fellowship in Limerick City,.

Ireland.

We are discussing his book, Grace and Assurance, the message of the canons of Dort.

Before the break, Brother McGowan, you were going to lead us into

the first main topic, which is predestination.

By the way, if anybody is listening and they'd like to join us on the air with a question, our email is ChrisArnzen at

gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

We do have a number of people already waiting to have their questions asked, but I wanted to get a little

bit further into the subject before we took some of those questions.

Let's begin where your book begins, under the main heading of predestination.

Yes, predestination and

Jesus Christ.

Now, is there any substantive difference between predestination and election?

In the Bible, election...

Now, this is where the blood begins to boil in those that are not

Reformed.

In fact, I would say that many of us, especially those of us who were not raised in

the Reformed faith, I was raised Roman Catholic, and my first introduction to evangelical Christianity

was Arminian, and when I began to hear about things like predestination, I was getting

upset, and I was immediately, perhaps just because of, I think, the natural

man's tendency, is to use nothing more than what they

think is human logic, and they

begin to depart from what the scriptures teach about the nature of man and so

on, and so people, even if they never heard the term equal ultimacy,

they may begin to think that that's what you're talking about, where man is morally neutral,

perhaps even morally good, to begin with, as some teach, very wrongly and heretically, and

that when God elects some for eternal life and others

for reprobation, he is taking those that would either be

mutually moral or good, and he forces upon them wickedness

and the deservedness of hell and reprobation.

So therefore, you're going to have some who, through their own free will, embrace

Christ, and some who would otherwise have embraced Christ, but God has

imposed upon them reprobation.

But this is totally foreign, obviously, to the scriptures, but it's also totally foreign to historic

confessional reform theology, am I right?

Yes.

Amen.

I've never heard an Arminian adequately explain that passage from Acts.

Pardon?

I have never heard an Arminian even remotely come to explaining that adequately from the

Acts, from an Arminian perspective.

Yes, and the other side of the

false charges, the slanders made against Calvinists, and of course, when I say this,

there are Calvinists that are hyper -Calvinists, and there are Calvinists who are just wrongly taught,

and there are many Calvinists in what many have nicknamed the cage stage of Calvinism,

where they run wild, attacking everybody who doesn't agree with them, but they do so without wisdom or education.

But the flip side of the attack against reprobation would be the

false understanding that if what we say is true, that means God forces

people against their will to believe in Christ, and the old

saying, they are dragged kicking and screaming to heaven, has been used, and

some have even dared to call this cosmic rape, which they

vehemently oppose, as do you and I, because we don't believe in it, unlike what they may think.

But how do you overcome those objections where the Calvinist understanding

is obviously that Christ in his mercy rescues his elect,

removes our hearts of stone and gives us hearts of flesh, and we freely believe when we are regenerate.

We don't believe against our will, but if you could respond to that false understanding of cosmic rape or

forcing people against their will to believe.

And it's failing to understand that we believe all of humanity comes from the same lump

of clay, and we are all sharing in a

damnable state, morally and spiritually, and some of us,

for purposes only known to God.

The only thing that we know about God's purposes when he elects is that he is not choosing someone because they are

more lovely or lovable or good, or because of anything innately

good and wonderful about them.

We know that that's not the reason, but there are reasons that God alone has for

those whom he chooses to save, am I right?

Amen.

And the term unconditional that you used, and that is in our historic

confessions in regard to election, that is something that the enemies of the reformed faith

will pounce on as well, because they say unconditional election

requires one to believe in arbitrary election.

I don't know if they use this phrase in Ireland, but there is a phrase in

children's games here in the United States that's probably centuries old called eeny, meeny, miny,

moe, where if you're picking somebody to be on your

baseball team, or in your case, I guess it would be UK football,

not in your case, you're in Limerick, Ireland, but football or soccer.

Or hurling or something, I don't know.

We have a game called hurling here.

Okay, there you go.

But if you're choosing a teammate out of a crowd, and your

efforts to be unbiased when you're picking them, you use the eeny, meeny, miny, moe, catch

a tiger by the toe, if he hollers let him go, eeny, meeny, miny, moe, and whoever you're pointing at is the one that you bring onto your

team, or whatever reason you're doing it.

This is not the way God operates, doesn't God always have a purpose and a plan, even if we don't know

what that purpose and plan is?

And that's what Arminians actually do, because if they say election is based upon

God foreseeing our faith, that is what they are saying God does.

Yes,

well, a lot

of

this

also, I'm sure you would agree, has to do with men

defining the.

Terms for who receives or who is rejected for

receiving eternal life, based on either

an individual's understanding of what is fair, or what a group

or what society may deem at any particular time as what is

fair.

And what they fail to realize, first of all, of course, Arminians are in many different categories.

You have Arminians who agree with us that there is eternal conscious damnation

for those who are lost or forever damned, but you do have those that are full

-blown universalists who believe that everyone will be in heaven.

But for those of our brothers and sisters in error who believe, like we do,

in eternal conscious punishment, I don't know how they could believe it is fair for God

to say for anyone to come to heaven, they must believe

that they are sinners, that they must believe that Jesus Christ has paid the penalty for all their sin

on Calvary, and that Jesus rose again and ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

If they believe that they will be in heaven, and if not, they will be in hell.

And how could that be fair when you have places in the world where to believe

upon Christ might even guarantee you a death sentence, where children are raised in homes

that they never hear of Jesus Christ or the Word of God or the Gospel ever uttered, and then you have

people in the Bible Belt of the United States who are nurtured by Christian parents in

loving homes and are hearing the Gospel and hearing the Word of God taught to them since infancy.

And then, of course, the larger picture, for centuries there were countries all over the globe that had

never heard the Gospel.

So how could you say this is a fair treatment of humans by God or any fairer

using a fair understanding of logic, using a logical understanding of human fairness?

They really can't use the fair argument very well, can they?

Well, we have to go to our midway break right now, and we'll pick up where you left off, and then we'll enter also into the

second main head of our discussion, and hopefully we'll get to all

five of these points from the canons of Dort before the end of the program.

If not, we'll just go on to another interview at some point in the future, if you are willing.

So, God willing, we'll be back with the second head of doctrine after these messages.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S

-A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

And I haven't forgotten about you who are waiting to have your questions asked.

Please be patient with us.

This is an elongated break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us

a longer break in the middle of the show because they localize Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to Lake City,

Florida, with their own commercials and public service announcements from local ministries and businesses and so on.

So, please be patient with us as we take this elongated break.

Use this time to write down questions for Martin McGowan on the canons of Dort.

Our email address, as I said, is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

But, also use this time to write down information provided by our advertisers so that you can

successfully and more frequently patronize them because we depend on our advertisers to exist.

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The more you patronize my advertisers, the more likely they will continue advertising and

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So, please do your best to patronize our advertisers as much as you can.

Don't go away.

God willing, we're going to be back after these messages from our sponsors with more of Martin McGowan

and our topic of Grace and Assurance, the message of the canons of Dort.

My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier

Ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC.

They are a reformed Baptist church that meets in midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www

.ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching,

in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

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Hello, I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrell, senior pastor at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi, and I'm hoping that many of you

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For more details, go to deepsouthfounders .com.

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I look forward to giving a big Mississippi welcome to many Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners

January 24th through January 26th.

Thank you.

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My name is James Renahan, and I'm the president of IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

The Word of God says, if a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing.

Do you have the desire to serve Jesus Christ in pastoral ministry?

Twenty years ago, the Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies at Westminster Seminary, California was born.

For those two decades, these institutions worked together to train men for ministry in Reformed Baptist

churches.

It's been a wonderful partnership.

Now we have advanced our school into an independent seminary offering a full program of courses leading to

the Master of Divinity degree.

This is IRBS Theological Seminary.

We believe that the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the inspired and inerrant Word of God, that Jesus Christ

is God in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life, death, and resurrection, and that the task of the church is to

honor and serve the triune God in all things.

IRBS Theological Seminary is dedicated by God's grace to preparing godly ministers who will be committed to

these doctrines.

Do you sense a call to serve Jesus Christ in his church as a pastor?

Why not consider IRBS Theological Seminary?

You'll find more information at irbsseminary .org.

That's irbsseminary .org, two S's in the middle.

I hope to hear from you soon.

God bless you.

Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

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He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country.

Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100

cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10

different states.

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history.

In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the.

Law journal.

If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state, I recommend that you

call Dan.

Consultations are free.

There is no fee unless you win.

Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878, 1 -800

-669 -4878, or email me for Dan's contact information

at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com, and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron.

Radio.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is an independent and operated book service that has sought to bring you the best available Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices.

Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available because frankly, much of what

is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster.

It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and

otherwise faith -insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

Their website is cvbbs .com.

Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work

in service to you, the church, and to Christ.

That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at cvbbs .com.

That's cvbbs .com.

Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And you can also call cvbbs .com at their toll -free

number, 800 -656 -0231.

800 -656 -0231.

And they man that phone line Monday through Friday between 10 a .m. and 4 .30 p .m. Eastern time

only.

If you mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, you're going to receive a free book that

they are offering.

And also, during the Christmas season, you can ask about their 10 discount on

everything in the store.

So make sure you mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And we just have a few exciting announcements about upcoming events that we want you to be aware of

that we hope that you attend, that I will be attending myself, God willing, and Manning

and Iron Sharpens Iron Exhibitor's booth at all of these events.

First of all, an event of my own, the Iron Sharpens Iron Pastor's Luncheon is coming

up sooner than you think.

Thursday, January 3rd from 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall in

Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Our featured speaker, once again, is Dr. Tony Costa, who is professor of apologetics

and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary, which is a historic reformed Baptist seminary in

Canada.

And Dr. Costa is always a fascinating and enlightening and

powerful speaker.

So I hope that you join us for the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon.

You have to be a man in ministry leadership.

This is a luncheon for men only, and you could be a pastor, an elder,

a deacon, a leader of a parachurch organization, and you will be admitted absolutely free of

charge.

Not only will you be fed physically through a delicious lunch, compliments of our friends at

Firehouse Subs, but you will also be fed spiritually by a message from Dr.

Tony Costa.

And you're going to be leaving there with perhaps two or more heavy

sacks of brand new books donated by major Christian

publishers, the majority of major Christian publishers all over the United States and the United Kingdom.

Who have been doing this every year going back to the 1990s when my dear late wife, Julie,

actually launched these annual pastor's luncheons.

And they grew into a much larger event than either of us could handle financially.

So we had to have corporate sponsors help us with this event.

And I hope that you join us Thursday, January 3rd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and

Rescue Banquet Hall, Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Again, it's absolutely free of charge.

There is no ulterior motive that is behind me inviting you

to this luncheon.

There is not going to be any Amway salesman.

There's not going to be anything for sale at all at the event.

Not that there's anything wrong with that at other events, but at my event, the pastor's luncheon, we never have anything for

sale.

That was something that my late wife insisted upon because she didn't want people to think that the luncheon was a gimmick

to sell Men in the Mystery anything.

This was purely to treat men in the ministry to a relaxing and

informative and fun and delicious time of lunch

with other brethren in Christ and with an excellent gifted speaker.

So please attend if you can and send me an email if you need more questions answered to

chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com and put pastor's luncheon in the subject line.

Then immediately following the luncheon from Friday, January 4th through Sunday,

January 6th, Dr. Tony Costa, who I just mentioned from Toronto Baptist Seminary, he is also going to be

speaking at a three -day Bible conference that I have orchestrated

with my friend, Pastor George Jensen at the Enola First Church of God in Enola, Pennsylvania.

And Dr. Costa is going to be speaking on a fascinating

subject that I hope that you all will come to hear.

And this, by the way, is open to all people, men, women, and children, and

even non -Christians.

You are welcome whether you are a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Hindu, an atheist.

We would love to see you at this event, which is on the theme, The Meaninglessness of Life and

Morality Without God.

The Meaninglessness of Life and Morality Without God is the theme of the three -day conference.

If you'd like more information, you can email me at chrisarnson at gmail .com and put Tony Costa Conference in the subject line.

This is also free of charge.

Tony Costa Conference in the subject line at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

You could also call the Enola First Church of God in Enola, Pennsylvania

at 717 -732 -4253.

717 -732 -4253.

Or you could go to their website enolacog .com.

That's e -n -o -l -a -c -o -g .com forward slash bible

dash conference.

That's enolacog .com forward slash bible dash conference.

Then coming up later in the month of January, the G3 Conference returns to Atlanta, Georgia, more

specifically College Park, Georgia, at the Georgia International Convention Center.

I will be there manning an Iron Sharp and Zion radio booth for the third year in a row.

They're expecting 4 ,000 to 5 ,000 people to be there, so I hope you join me there at the G3

Conference, which stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory, in case you're wondering.

That is from Thursday, January 17th through Saturday, January 19th.

The very large roster of speakers includes Dr. James R. White, John Piper, Stephen

J. Lawson, Vody Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad M. Bayway, Tim Challies, Phil Johnson,

Stephen J. Nichols, the founder of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, Todd

Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, and many more are on that roster.

If you'd like to attend, go to G3conference .com.

And if you have a church, parachurch ministry, business, professional practice, or special event that you

want to promote in that crowd of between 4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people, I would strongly urge you to

register for an exhibitor's booth, just like I will be manning, and I can tell you that my experiences at

the G3 Conference have been extremely beneficial to Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, manning a booth in a

crowd of that size.

So we hope to see you this January 17th through the 19th at the Georgia International Convention

Center at the G3 Conference.

And by the way, there is a Spanish -speaking edition of the conference, so tell your Spanish -speaking and bilingual friends

that on Wednesday, January 16th, there will be that Spanish -speaking edition

of the conference.

Then, later on, towards the end of the month,

the Deep South Founders Conference, January 24th through the 26th, is going to be held

at the Bethlehem Baptist Church of Laurel, Mississippi.

I will be there, God willing, manning my first exhibitor's booth at the Deep South Founders Conference.

I've never been to the state of Mississippi before, so I'm looking forward to this first -time visit.

The theme is sanctification, and the speakers include Rusty Reed, Gerald Henderson, Jason

Goodwin, Bobby Crenshaw, and the keynote speaker is Dr. Conrad Mbewe, pastor of Coboata Baptist Church in

Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, and chancellor of the African Christian University.

I think he is the most powerful preacher alive on the planet Earth today, Conrad Mbewe, a dear friend of mine

since 1995.

I hope that you attend this conference and see me there.

For more details, go to deepsouthfounders .com, deepsouthfounders .com.

Last but not least, if you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, you do not want our show to disappear from the airwaves.

You value the guests and the topics that we feature that very often are never heard anywhere else.

You love sharing the free mp3s with your family, friends, and loved ones.

Well, please, if you love the show and you don't want us to go away, go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support,

then click click to donate now.

You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card.

We are in urgent need of your finances.

We've got bills mounting up that we have not yet paid, and we are entering into one of those scary dark

seasons financially.

So please, if you love the show, donate heavier than you've ever donated before with this

caveat, never ever siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church where you are a member in order to give to

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Never do that.

Never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

But if you're financially blessed above and beyond your ability to provide for your church and your home, then please,

under those circumstances only, please give heavily and frequently to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

At ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

If you want to advertise with us, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

And as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe, we would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we truly

do need your advertising dollars urgently.

And if you do not have a church home and you're not prayerfully looking for one, you are living in rebellion against

God.

I have lists of faithful churches all over the world.

I have helped people in our audience from all over the world find churches near them that are biblically faithful.

So please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church home in the subject line.

And also, that's the same email address you can use to send a question in to Martin McGeown, the author of Grace and

Assurance, the message of the Canons of Dort.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And as always, please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves personal and private matter.

So as we said before the break, we wanted to enter now into the

second head of doctrine, the death of Christ and the

redemption of men thereby.

Unless you wanted to wrap something up with predestination, we can move on to the second head.

We do have questions waiting, but I'd rather

just at least take this one additional heading first, because the questions are

more general in nature about Reformed theology, so I want to at least get through the second head before.

We

move on

to the

listener

questions.

His death

was, in their

minds,

even

if they

would never.

Phrase it this way, if Christ died for every single human that ever lived or ever will live,

his atoning death was merely hypothetically atoning and redemptive.

It didn't actually.

Atone

or

redeem

anybody,

did it?

Right.

And I

don't

have

the exact

wording

that.

Our dearly departed brother now in glory for eternity with Christ, Charles Haddon Spurgeon,

once uttered in opposition to Arminianism, but

the gist of what brother Spurgeon said was that

when it comes to limited atonement, he said, even though we as Calvinists use that phrase, we

are only talking about the scope of

humanity for whom the atonement was intended.

And according to Spurgeon, the Arminians truly have a much more limited atonement than

Calvinists do, because they limit the power of the atonement.

Because they believe that Christ's death in and of itself did not atone for anyone, as we

just mentioned earlier, it just made a hypothetical atonement possible.

And Spurgeon also said that he found it abhorrent and

monstrous and something equivalent to the God of the pagans,

that humans would be tormented in eternity

for sins that they claim, the Arminians claim, were already atoned for on the

cross by Christ.

So it doesn't even make sense that if Christ died to atone for the sins of all humanity, that anyone

would be cast into hell anyway and be tormented for those sins.

Absolutely.

I've heard some people say, I don't know if you agree, and of course some of it might involve mind reading, but people

have said, reformed people have said on occasion, that the true objection to

limited atonement or particular redemption or definite atonement or substitutionary atonement

is not really that doctrine.

It really goes back to what we were initially talking about, unconditional election.

People may claim that they find limited atonement abhorrent, but it really goes back to the topic that

really hinges, inseparably hinges on this, that God has chosen a certain

number of people before the foundation of the world to receive the benefits of his death.

These things are inseparable, aren't they?

Right,

and

although

there

have

been some

Amaraldians who have tried to.

Possess that balanced view, or they would think is balanced, that's just really inconsistent and illogical.

J .C. Ryle, a great hero from church history, claimed to be in that camp of Amaraldian who

believed in the four points of Calvinism, but not in the limited atonement doctrine,

but I don't think that he was being consistent on that, as great a man of God as he was.

So, what has the great harm done?

Because some people might say, well, you're really talking about very academic issues

that should be confined to the libraries and studies of scholars, theologians, and seminary professors.

What great harm could this do?

Can you really explain why this would in any way be a harmful doctrine if one were to

teach, as many do, as many Christians, if not most, who profess to be Christians today, and

for a long time, have used as their main theme of

evangelism, walking up to strangers, or even those that they know but who reject Christ,

and telling them, God loves you and sent his son, Christ Jesus,

to die for you in your place on the cross, and he has paid the penalty for all

your sins.

They will tell this to people without discrimination, without any knowledge of where

this person's heart is, or they might even know for certain that the person is an enemy of Christ,

and they will say this, but this cannot be true, that Christ died for all of their

sins if they never repent and wind up in an eternal hell.

Those two things don't.

Jive together, do

they?

No, if you go up to

your...

Right,

exactly.

Right,

in

fact, I

heard,

or

perhaps

I

read

it,.

That there was a professor for a Nazarene seminary, the Church of the

Nazarene, and I don't want to say anything disparaging about them as a

whole group, I have friends in the denomination that I love that I think are very faithful Christians in many

respects, but this professor of the Nazarene seminary, which is a

Wesleyan -Arminian denomination, he was chiding, he was

rebuking his fellow Nazarenes for using the phrase substitutionary atonement,

and he was actually more consistent and logical about it because he said, if

Christ did indeed die as the substitute for every human that has ever lived or ever will live,

then all of humanity will be in heaven.

How could it be otherwise?

So he told his own fellow Nazarenes to stop using that phrase

because, in fact, logically and consistently, he was correct according to their theology, wasn't he?

Absolutely.

Well, he believed that Christ died for all.

I don't remember if he actually chose a phrase other than that, but he...

In what sense did Christ die for all, then?

You're asking me to defend Arminianism.

Well,

see,

he actually

admitted that the death of Christ was hypothetical in regard to the.

Atonement.

He saw the logical and consistent

conclusion that one must draw if Christ died for everybody.

He was admitting that the death of Christ in and of itself

alone did not purchase anyone from the gates of hell.

Of course.

Right.

The power of Christ.

And, of course, most...

Right.

And most folks that I know that are opposed to Reformed theology, well, first of all, most

of them don't actually use the phrase Arminian to describe themselves, even if they really are that,

or at least evangelical Arminians.

But most would never be as bold and as honest and as consistent and as logical to

say the same words as that Nazarene seminary professor did.

They would typically say that Jesus Christ died for your

sins and there's nothing you can do other than believe, and they would really be very

inconsistent.

And as I said earlier in the beginning of the program, there are many Arminians who will use the term substitutionary

atonement or that Christ died as a substitute, but they're really wrongly using that phrase.

Yes, they are.

Right.

And the sense in which that Christ died for all men is true

in that he died for all kinds of men.

He died for kings and peasants.

He died for people of all skin colors, ethnic groups and nations of origin.

He died for those who are brilliant and he died for those who are mentally retarded or brain

damaged.

He died for all kinds of people, prostitutes and

pastors and everyone in between.

And of course, those for whom he died, he not only rescues them from the penalty of sin, but

he rescues them from the bondage of sin.

So those that are amongst the perverse, the prostitutes and the

murderers, as well as those that are guilty of the sin of pride, who

may be living outwardly moral lives, but are really still dead in their sins

because they take pride in their own deeds and their own abilities and their own minds and hearts.

Everyone who is purchased by the blood of the lamb will be given a new life.

And although we'll never be perfect on this earth, we will be living lives marked out by obedience and repentance, correct?

We have to go to our final break.

It's a much more brief break than the last one.

If you'd like to join us on the air, and we will get to our listeners' questions when we return.

But if you want to join them, do so now or forever hold your peace.

The email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away, God willing, we are going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

Got to tell you, for my money, Chris Arnson's radio program is just the best.

Iron.

Criticizing.

I think that's what it's called.

This is Todd Friel of Wretched Radio and TV, with Phil Johnson of Grace To You, inviting

everybody to come to the G3 conference, which has almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the

country.

And it is.

It's.

A great conference.

I love it.

And Chris Arnson was there last year.

He's been there, I think, every year.

It's great to see him there.

You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at.

That place, which is a highlight.

Tons of stuff going on.

Tons of great speakers.

And no matter where you are in the building, you will hear Chris Arnson's laugh.

And that's worth the price of admission alone.

If you would like to join Phil, me, Chris, and a cavalcade of great preachers, so it should be a

cavalcade of great preachers, and me, g3conference .com, g3conference

.com.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750, that's 508 -528

-5750, or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV

program entitled, Resting in Grace.

You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org, that's providencebaptistchurchma .org,

or even on sermonaudio .com.

Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor.

Iron Sharpener's Iron Radio.

I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrell, pastor at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi.

God tells us in James 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction.

In the providence of God three years ago, I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka, Zambia, in a township called

Kabanana, who are taking care of 24 orphans.

I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.

What was I to do?

Could I just say, God bless you, and walk away?

The situation of the children set heavily upon me.

As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.

The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child.

If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need.

Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there, so if you give a dollar, a dollar will get to the orphans.

In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans?

Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi,

39443, or donate through our website, bbclaurel .com.

Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi,

39443, or bbclaurel .com.

Thank you.

Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Linbrook,.

Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages, enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and

together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can

be.

Call Linbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402.

That's 516 -599 -9402, or visit linbrookbaptist .org.

That's linbrookbaptist .org.

Hello, my name is James Renahan, and I'm the president of IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield,

Texas.

The Word of God says, if a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing.

Do you have the desire to serve Jesus Christ in pastoral ministry?

Twenty years ago, the Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies at Westminster Seminary, California was born.

For those two decades, these institutions worked together to train men for ministry in Reformed Baptist

churches.

It's been a wonderful partnership.

Now we have advanced our school into an independent seminary offering a full program of courses leading to

the Master of Divinity degree.

This is IRBS Theological Seminary.

We believe that the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the inspired and inerrant Word of God, that Jesus Christ

is God in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life, death, and resurrection, and that the task of the church is to

honor and serve the Triune God in all things.

IRBS Theological Seminary is dedicated by God's grace to preparing godly ministers who will be committed to

these doctrines.

Do you sense a call to serve Jesus Christ and his church as a pastor?

Why not consider IRBS Theological Seminary?

You'll find more information at irbsseminary .org.

That's irbsseminary .org, two S's in the middle.

I hope to hear from you soon.

God bless you.

Every day at thousands of.

Community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local

hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement

to youths in need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385

-8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333.

Or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org.

One sure way all Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my

advertisers.

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My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of Linn Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier

Ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC.

They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www

.ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching,

in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

Listening to Christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually.

Even many of the major Christian networks that include excellent biblically faithful teachers on their lineup

sadly often also include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics.

If you are a lover of the doctrines of sovereign grace, you need not fear listening 24 hours a day to

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They feature Christ -centered programming from Reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological

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Pastor Joe Jackowitz, Pastor Robert Gifford, Al Martin, Edward Delcor, and

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Firstloveradio .org also live streams my Iron Trepans Iron Radio program daily.

Please stick around on firstloveradio .org after Iron Trepans Iron Radio is over to continue

being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the gospel of sovereign grace.

Spread the word about firstloveradio .org.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, and this is the last portion of our interview today with Martin McGeown, pastor of Limerick Reformed

Fellowship in Limerick City, Ireland.

We are discussing grace and assurance, the message of the canons of Dort.

If you have a question, email it now because we're running out of time very quickly.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

By the way, I just want to remind you for all of your holiday shopping or just to help friends, family, and

loved ones understand more deeply the word of God, do a lot of your shopping at solid -ground

-books .com.

Solid -ground -books .com, our sponsor, Solid Ground Christian Books, is undergoing a very

serious financial setback ever since the founder, Mike Gadosh, went into heart

surgery, and although he is recovering well at home, being laid up in the hospital and being laid up in bed

recovering for a while had set Solid Ground Christian Books back to a serious

degree in their finances.

So please help replenish that which was lost, and do much, if not all, of your shopping for the holidays at solid

-ground -books .com.

Okay, we are now back, as I said, with Martin McGeown, and we have a listener in Annapolis, North Carolina named Casey,

and Casey asks, how can we best introduce the doctrines of grace to family members who don't understand

them and may even be hostile when you bring them up?

It seems that if they have a commitment to scripture, that when you properly interpret the scripture to teach

them, they should be challenged to change their minds.

Well, if only life could be that easy.

But, Martin, if you could.

Not that difficult.

Yeah, and I think that Casey, since he appears to be a believer in the doctrines of grace, he needs to be reminded that

he should not be overly dismayed and discouraged if those whom he is

evangelizing don't immediately repent of their false theology and embrace the doctrines

of grace, because that too is in the hands of God himself.

No matter how articulate you may be, or brilliant you may be, if God intends

to show those deep and beautiful truths to those to whom you're talking,

he will do so at his own time.

Shouldn't that be an encouragement to us when we feel very frustrated?

It seems that our words are falling on deaf ears.

Yes,

well, that's right.

Amen.

We have a listener in Balamina, Northern Ireland, Julian, who says, Concerning Unconditional

Election and Reprobation, in the book you say Calvinists are accused of teaching God

hates people and condemns them to hell, but is this not biblical truth?

Thou hatest all workers of iniquity, Esau I have hated, and the false teachers

in Peter's epistle anointed to outer darkness.

And he's asking, I guess, for you to.

Affirm that those are biblical teachings.

I'm not sure what he's able to...

No, I think he's basically spelling out biblical

truths and asking you to affirm them, it seems.

Concerning Unconditional Election and Reprobation, in the book you say Calvinists are accused of teaching God hates people

and condemns them to hell, but is this not biblical truth?

In other words, he's saying that it is biblical truth and he wants you...

Yes, it is biblical truth.

Yeah, those that have a sentimental understanding, a greeting

card understanding of God, who say that he is not a God that hates

anyone, well then they would have to be a universalist who believes that even the devil will be in heaven with us one

day, as some people are, heretically.

But you really cannot believe in hell at all, even if you're an annihilationist, you're believing that people are being

punished and evaporated.

I'm not condoning annihilationism, I'm saying that even those people believe that

there is a punishment that is eternal, so therefore you cannot believe in the kind of

love that most non -reformed people claim about.

God, can

you?

Let's see here,

we have

an

anonymous listener, and the anonymous listener says,.

I have found it disturbing that more and more people, pastors, churches, and denominations that

claim to be reformed are borrowing from the Arminians in regard to

seeker -sensitive approaches to worship and evangelism.

They seem to be declaring on one hand faithfulness to the confessions of

faith that we share in Reformed history, but when it comes to the practice of it,

they seem to be acting as Arminians.

Do you have a word of loving rebuke to our brethren who are.

Doing

this?

We

have CJ

in

Lindenhurst,

Long

Island,

New York,

who says, what steps can.

Calvinists take as to not fall down the slippery slope of hyper -Calvinism,

where they are denying.

The whole counsel of God just as

the

Arminians

are?

Well, CJ,

you have

won a

free

copy of

the.

Book, Grace and Assurance, The Message of the Canons of Dort.

Make sure we have your full mailing address, so cvbbs .com can ship that out to you.

That goes for our anonymous listener as well.

Please give us your full name, your address, so that can be shipped out to you.

For those of our listeners who say that God would never command anyone to do anything they could not do,

might I remind you of two different instances where Jesus Christ said, pick up your bed and walk,

and also Lazarus, come forth.

Those are instances when those people were totally incapable in and of themselves to obey those commands, and yet

Christ commanded them to do so, and he enabled them to obey as he does with his elect.

Paul, I want to thank you so much, Martin Miguel, for being our guest today, and I obviously want you to

come back to continue our theme on your book, because we're only not even halfway through it.

So, if you could come back and bless us with additional information about

Grace and Assurance.

I'd certainly be willing to do that, if you can schedule me in.

I will, and well, I know that your website for

the church where you pastor, there in Limerick, Ireland, limerickreformed

.com, limerickreformed .com, you can also email me for more information if you're listening and you want

those details, chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

You can also find out more about the Reform Free Publishing Association at

rfpa .org, rfpa, that's Publishing Association,

rfpa .org.

I want to thank everybody who listened.

I hope you all have a safe, blessed, and happy weekend and Lord's Day, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives

that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.