Dead Men Walking Podcast: Irresistible Grace

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00:00

All right, here we go. Really?

00:08

What was that? You can put that right on the edge of your thing there. It might be a good place to Okay, ready

00:19

Exploring theology doctrine and all of the fascinating subjects in between Broadcasting from an undisclosed location dead men walking starts now

00:36

Well, hello everyone, welcome to another episode of dead men walking, I'm Greg And I'm Jason If you heard a sniff in the intro there, that's

00:46

Jason battling some Allergies my allergies are just going crazy right now.

00:52

Really? Yeah, what's going on? We don't cottonwood or anything like that. Like what do you get? I don't know 39 and you know, it just starts having it's all downhill from here

01:01

Greg Excuse me Yeah, exactly yeah, well, yeah,

01:08

I hope you get better there you're fighting some stuff. Yeah, it's good. I promise I'm I'm okay.

01:15

I don't want to bring up what's going on in the world right now the The disease that is out there, right?

01:22

I do not have that but so the allergies are good So episode warning if we hear some sneezing some sniffing

01:31

Some coughing it's not the kovid. It's not the coke. It's the allergies. It's the allergies

01:36

Wow capital a well I hope you hope you get through a minute. That's rough I've never I've never had allergies serious, but I have friends that have it and it can get bad

01:44

I used to have to get two shots every week in my arm Well and in both arms.

01:50

Yeah, I have two really I have two arms They're huge. But yeah, yeah two two shots each arm

01:59

For years and then after a while, I guess I was okay But here we are 39 years old might have to go back.

02:06

They wore off. Yeah, definitely 25 years, right, right No, I've been pretty blessed with that like my brother gets really bad poison ivy.

02:16

Oh, I mean even looks at it He gets it. I can rub it on myself. I don't get it serious. I never had allergies

02:23

Only been sick maybe two times my whole life. No, okay. Okay. Yeah What a unicorn what a unicorn one of them was

02:32

Last December not last December 19, but December of 18. I had I thought

02:37

I just had a cough But then I was like walking up the stairs and I couldn't breathe I had to lay down for 20 minutes just to get up the stairs and at that point two weeks in my wife's like maybe

02:47

You should go to the doctor. No, no, I'll get over it, you know Yeah, and I went to the man thing to do right there was it was like I can work

02:54

I'm good. You know how you get rid of sickness your work. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, you know, you know what guys usually do they're like, yeah,

03:01

I'm fine. Yeah, we go in the bathroom really Yeah, no, I was doing that. So then when

03:06

I was like sleeping for 10 hours a day, you know I always said maybe she go to the doctor and I went to the doctor and he was like Whoa, like a couple more days to be hospitalized for a full -blown pneumonia.

03:15

Yeah So he gave me a steroid shot and a some antibiotics and a z -pack

03:22

I think it's really and I'll tell you what man within a day I started feeling better came right back out of it in three or four days and that was this

03:29

I'd never really experienced that though. I just thought I mean I've getting common colds and stuff, right? You know lay in bed like sick.

03:36

Yeah, maybe twice. Yeah whole life So I've been blessed in that aspect to where I do get nosebleeds though when the weather changes pressure in the air get a nose

03:43

Bleed like yeah, and the next week or two is in Michigan here as it goes from you know

03:48

A warm front to a cold front. Mm -hmm I suffer the few of those but that's no big deal Only time I get nosebleed is when

03:54

I get punched in the face. Really? What's so funny about that? Just made it super awkward you did

04:04

Your joke your fuck your funny dad joke. I don't even know if it's a dad joke. No, I don't that was a little morbid

04:11

Sorry, I think once you get over a certain age all corny jokes are just dad jokes.

04:18

Everything's funny I mean, I laugh all the time Yeah Yeah, so what else is going on anything new?

04:27

Um Not really. I heard there was an earthquake. Yeah, we had an earthquake today in Monroe County, Michigan What is that about three point four on the

04:36

Richter scale happened about Oh just five six hours ago Oh, no less than that about four hours ago.

04:42

I was driving from Monroe No, no. Well, I felt my car kind of swerve back and forth, but I think that was just me driving

04:49

My FJ Cruiser, it's got those big oversized mud tires on it. So it's not exactly, you know with a lift

04:55

Exactly a smooth driving car. Yeah, but my sister she lives in downtown Monroe and she called me said

05:01

Oh, yeah, the whole house felt like a like a wave. She was you know, that's and it was all over social

05:07

Have you read Matthew 24 this means? Right Yeah earthquakes and wars and rumor of war there are rumors of war right now, too

05:18

Yeah, well, it's really scary because a lot of people don't even realize but Michigan is on a big fault line

05:25

Oh huge fault line runs right through the city of Detroit Okay and they basically discovered it when they started putting in the

05:32

Salt caves that are underneath the city of Detroit a lot of people don't know this either but there are thousands of miles of tunnels and caves that would come up into like Edison's mansion and really the

05:46

CEO of GM and they they basically were mining salt back in the day and they turned them into Kind of like secret passages for a while.

05:53

They're still there. They're all blocked off, but they're still there gotcha getting big trouble if you try to get into them, but the fault line was discovered and It's really scary

06:01

If you actually had a big like a 7 or 8 .0 on the Richter scale in Michigan Half of Michigan would be underwater because of the

06:08

Great Lakes, huh? I mean we have a super high water table here obviously with having five

06:14

Great Lakes around us Yeah, you know we have 40 % of the world's fresh water in our five lakes so that kind of gives you an idea of how big they are right and Yeah, if something ever happened where you know went over decided to shift here

06:28

Yeah went over to Lake Erie today actually and the water was pretty rough. Yeah, so I don't know if you know

06:36

Effects what was going on? I don't think 3 .4 is big enough, and I think it was on land

06:41

It wasn't underneath the lake gotcha, and it would have to be pretty big. Yeah, yeah that much water Yeah, you know like the tsunami and where was it?

06:49

Yeah, I don't Asia or Thailand or back in 04 Yeah, I think that was like a 8 .4. That's a pretty big one

06:56

Yeah, that's a tonic plate shifts, and then it's pushing all that water to your over Japan Japan that was a little

07:03

Sooner yeah, or when was that like Five or eight years ago, maybe can't remember now.

07:09

I'm getting old Yeah, it all runs together, but yeah No matter what the

07:14

Bible says The Lord is with us Right amen do not fear as David said

07:22

Psalm 27 1 mm -hmm for I am your Lord God is sovereign absolutely

07:28

And I put my trust in him no matter what we're having earthquakes in Michigan, which is unheard of right middle

07:36

You know we should have started this series with an with the s What's the s sovereign oh

07:42

So stulip stulip. I know six points. You're really pushing that I really think we should

07:50

That is the stulip Because well, you know the other five points kind of Encapsulate the s right you know or you could just I don't know why we just couldn't end it at the end and say two lips

08:02

Two lips, I don't know now you like you like you look better. Yeah, yeah, cuz it starts with the sovereignty of God Yeah, I think you know well

08:10

That's a good segue because we're on episode four out of our five series going through tulip t -u -l -i -p

08:17

We've already called it covered the T the U and the L and tonight.

08:22

We're on the I which is Here Well grace, right So you want to jump into that yeah?

08:31

I would probably say the first thing like we normally do on this podcast is read the

08:36

I don't know I guess leave the general Generally known definition of what we're talking about yep

08:42

So I'm gonna read a little definition here says irresistible grace Means that when God moves to save a person the sinner cannot successfully resist

08:49

God's grace Gracious will upon him and he will be regenerated or saved the term

08:55

Unfortunately suggests a mechanical and coercive force upon an unwilling subject But irresistible grace does not mean that a person cannot resist

09:03

God's grace throughout his life instead Irresistible grace is the gracious act of God where at the time of salvation

09:10

God regenerates a person which then means that the person will willingly of his own free will

09:15

Receive and trust in Christ it means that the person cannot successfully resist the act of God's regeneration or salvation

09:22

It is not a violation of their will since the person is changed and because of it the person willingly trusts in Christ And that is a definition that I found on calm org

09:33

Matt slick runs that site and he gives Pretty good definitions. Yeah some really good stuff of different You know theological and doctrinal terms so a shout -out to Matt and letting us use

09:45

Karma, I want to give credit where credit's due that was not my definition right but so irresistible grace stands in juxtaposition or an opposition of Let's make sure we say it right because before we were saying it wrong

10:00

Prevenient prevenient grace. Yes, which says that there's a grace that was kind of always there

10:06

Wesley made this really popular And that every person has a modicum of grace within them to Essentially see the light so to speak and to choose

10:16

God to where irresistible grace Goes hand in hand with the tea and tulip

10:22

It's just total depravity that says we do not have the means to choose God that God must choose us and must

10:31

Save us and he does that through Irresistible grace so when God shows himself to us gives us the faith the gift of faith to repent and believe in him and changes our will to Align with his will which is also biblical.

10:49

I mean, this is how Jesus taught us to pray that that is such an awesome and Holy and righteous thing that it can't be resisted that mere man can't resist that type of grace

11:04

And so when you're working through tulip, and you're going total depravity unconditional election

11:11

Limited atonement and then boom you get to irresistible grace this letter kind of talks about the process of salvation under the

11:21

Calvinistic or reformed or the doctrines of grace Type of theology, right?

11:27

So did you I don't know do you want to jump into some Bible verses that kind of speak to irresistible grace?

11:33

Yeah, we could totally do that or did we want to talk about? What it means to you or what your thoughts are on it?

11:39

I mean, yeah, you know, this podcast is a conversation So let's let's do whatever you want to do.

11:45

We could how about we start in Ezekiel 36 24 Pulling out

11:52

Zeke dog. Let's let's go. Let's go back to the old Old Testament for all y 'all He said

11:57

Ezekiel what 36 36 24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land

12:06

I will sprinkle clean water on you and you Shall be clean from all your uncleanness and from all your idols

12:16

I will cleanse you and I will give you a new heart and a new spirit I will put within you and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh

12:28

Hmm and I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules

12:36

Yeah, and I I mean within Tulip here. We're seeing the harmony of the

12:41

Trinity, you know sure and it's the father gives to the son the son you know

12:49

Maintains maintains, you know becomes a sacrifice and then you know, the Holy Spirit applies

12:55

Sure what is given to him? Yes, you know, it's a beautiful thing and it's yeah, it's it's amazing to see but Just just within these verses right here

13:04

I mean heart of stone to a heart of flesh and I know that that's something that the reform community usually talks about but it's

13:11

It makes so much sense. Sure, you know I mean once you start looking at some of these verses and especially if you guys want to go to Ezekiel 36 and Kind of do your own study.

13:22

Wait a minute. You mean reform people use Bible verses to Yeah, exactly for shame reformed reformed teaching

13:30

May have kind of kind of started around, you know, 500 years ago

13:36

But it actually started when the Bible was written Yeah, all the all the

13:42

Bible verses that we use Yeah aren't from John Calvin's personal collection what he

13:49

You go all the way back to like Deuteronomy 36 where it says moreover the

13:56

Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants To to love the

14:01

Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul so that you may live so All of you and your descendants, right?

14:08

God's doing the circumcising Yeah, so from the very beginning in the first five books of the Bible We're already seeing this kind of sovereignty this, you know, when you just read

14:18

Ezekiel 36, it didn't say You know, God will ask you if you want a new heart and then if you accept him

14:24

He'll give you a heart of flesh and take out your heart of stone, right? He's making a truth statement there. God is going to do this and I'm going to do that.

14:31

Yeah, right, right So we see a lot of that But if we go back to we jump over to the

14:37

New Testament I'll give you a couple of mine that I love that I think really kind of exemplify the irresistible grace

14:45

So John 1 12 and 13, but as many as received him to them.

14:50

He gave the right to become children of God So first he's giving the right even to those who believe in his name

14:57

Who were born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh?

15:02

So not mine or your will nor of the will of man, but of God so of God's will they were given that they were

15:12

Born to believe right James 1 18 in the exercise of his will he brought us forth by the word of truth

15:22

So that we would be a kind of firstfruits among his creatures. So in the exercise of whose will

15:29

His will his will through through his grace his irresistible grace I might add right

15:34

John 5 21 for just as the father raises the dead and gives them life Even so the son also gives life to whom he wishes

15:44

So the son gives life to whom he wishes just as the father does now we know that's true because The father the son the

15:51

Holy Spirit are harmonious and all that they do And I think this goes back to your point that you were just saying a couple minutes ago

15:57

These these doctrines of grace so nicely show the harmonious nature of all three

16:02

Persons in the Trinity and the Godhead working together. Yeah, it's it's really a beautiful thing.

16:08

Yeah, it really is I had a few first John 5 1 everyone who believes that Jesus is the

16:16

Christ has been born of God and Everyone who loves the father loves whoever has been born of him and then first John 2 29

16:29

If you know that he is righteous you may be sure that everyone who practices

16:35

Righteousness has been born of him So that may go into a conversation of You know, what if what if I get saved when

16:44

I'm 20 and then you know I'm on fire for 10 years and then all of a sudden

16:49

I fall away and no apostasy and then you know I'm and then I end up dying or something, you know, where do

16:56

I go? Yeah, you know, is it is it all of a sudden? I'm No longer.

17:02

I no longer have my salvate it, you know losing salvation Keeping salvate, you know, does that go into that conversation as well?

17:11

Well when I hear language like that I get so sad of how works based salvation has seeped into Christianity and evangelicalism and even

17:19

Protestant You know denominations of Protestantism to what your base Well, yeah and globally to a lot in America though Yeah, because what you're saying is is just listen to what you just said you said oh

17:30

I get saved and I'm on fire You're talking about on fire means some types of good work strange possibly

17:38

You're talking about some type of good works and then I Backslide. Well, what does that mean now? I'm doing bad works or sinning, right?

17:46

So just from that Paradigm you're essentially basing your salvation on what works you do.

17:53

Mm -hmm. You're saying oh I did some good stuff But then I did some bad stuff reading my Bible. I was going to church on the

17:59

Sabbath I was yeah, yeah When yes a true alive faith as James says produces good works

18:06

Okay, a dead faith does not produce works but works does not one save right, right, right

18:12

So when we look at that we say oh, I'm doing good stuff But then I backslide and you know, and then if I die where I'm where am

18:19

I going? One I would say John Piper does a really nice job of when he's talking about suicide now in no ways he endorsing suicide

18:27

But he's saying he was such saying what then please tell me what one sinful act

18:32

I can do to pull me away From the love of God, what is it?

18:37

Right? And he gives an example of if can someone commit suicide and be in heaven

18:44

He says yes, absolutely because the last sinful act you do on earth does not there's nothing

18:49

There's nothing to do with the covenant that God made with you when he saved you. That's a seventh -day Adventist Is it theology

18:55

I'm pretty sure yeah, they're just like there's no assurance I think you talked with Yep, Jeff about wait

19:02

Jeff John. Sorry theocracy. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he He may have actually brought that up or me because there is no assurance.

19:10

There's no assurance. Yeah, you know, you're just yeah I mean, that's why the Catholic Church. I make it the

19:16

Catholic Church has mortal sins, right? If you're if you're doing one of those mortal sins or have not been forgiven of one of those moral sins and die

19:22

You will not see the Lord. Yeah, you're not in good standing, right? So you can lose your salvation, right?

19:28

This is where we differ. I would say 99 % of Protestants differ with Catholics on this

19:33

There's a few Protestants that still hold to those sacraments and mortal sins but for the most part, that's one of the things that really separated us from the

19:41

Catholic Church was justification by faith alone and not by and There wasn't one sin that was greater than the other that could you know, keep keep you out of eternal

19:52

Salvation right Now different sins have different consequences here on earth. The Bible is very clear on that, right?

19:58

Our whole legal system is based on a biblical thing of eye for an eye meaning crime fit the punishment you're going if you

20:07

You know murder someone versus you know Steal a candy bar right under our legal system that sin has different consequences when you break the law

20:16

And when I say the law I'm talking about, you know, the law of man actual civil yeah civil law but as for there's a certain sin or a certain period of time that That I am sinning for that makes me lose my salvation

20:32

I mean, we're kind of getting into a preview of next week's episode and P and perseverance of the

20:37

Saints Yeah, because we're gonna talk about that a lot Yeah, because that's what that has to do with but I think when

20:43

I look at you know The Bible and when I read it I see nowhere that it says that there is a certain act that I can do that causes

20:52

Christ's blood to no longer Be effective. Does that make sense as the

20:59

What about as we talk about aiming the Holy Spirit? Well, I think there's some different thoughts on blaspheming the

21:05

Holy Spirit first of all, I Would probably say if you're blaspheming the

21:11

Holy Spirit I don't know if you were ever saved to begin with right and I would say that for a lot of things

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And I think some people think that's like a reformed cop -out. Well, he was never really saved But there's a lot of people that believe in Jesus many have called fewer chosen, right?

21:27

You know, I mean Satan believes in Jesus, right? He knew he had a head knowledge of who Jesus was

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Bible for me and I'll give you everything in this the kingdom that's been given to me He wanted him to submit him

21:39

Jesus he wanted Jesus to submit to him right because he knew who Jesus was So just to simply say

21:44

I have a head knowledge of Jesus and this also gets into you know Even some of my friends in the Reformed community where we think oh, well

21:51

I read a lot of theology books and doctrine books and I can quote this guy and that guy in this church father and I follow

21:56

This guy and I know a lot about God, but do you know the Spirit of God?

22:02

Are you living daily live it out and live that out? I think that's a big difference So and that and that goes that ties into this 1st

22:08

John 2 29 if you know that he is righteous You may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.

22:17

Boom, you know So right, there's a good measuring stick, right? Right. Yeah, and like I said, we can

22:23

I mean you want to talk about this in length? I would say any of our listeners just go read James such a gorgeous

22:29

Yeah picture of faith works and how they work together now You know my

22:35

Catholic brothers might Interpret that a little bit differently, right and they say see works are needed for faith because you got to have works with faith

22:43

But when you read it in the full context of in James He goes through and multiple times just says is basically saying look at I'll show you

22:52

My alive faith with works and you're gonna show me a dead faith if it doesn't have works faith produces works

22:58

Pretty sure that's yeah one Twenty six, I'm not sure

23:05

No, that's not right You you'll know if I don't know the specific Chapter verse because I will not say it if I know what

23:11

I'll say I'll just say James or I'll say I'll know it's in like the second chapter and I'll say chapter two, you know Anyone thinks he is?

23:18

No, that's not it. No, it's still good though. My apologies Yeah, you never have to apologize about reading the

23:24

Bible on exactly or James for that and that's what I like about this podcast too is we're not just Spouting off a bunch of you know stuff that we're just coming up with Yeah, you know, this is that we're reading verses and you're trying to be faithful to the text.

23:39

Yeah, you know, this isn't And still learning I would say yeah. Yeah, cuz I've never

23:45

I never have arrived. Yeah. Yeah No, you know gosh. No, and it's yeah,

23:50

I mean the the word Is alive and you will you will learn from it daily?

23:57

Yeah But yeah, I was I'll go ahead I'm sorry go ahead good No, I was just gonna say

24:04

I Mean maybe we can get back we can get back to irresistible grace or do you want to stay on the back sliding thing?

24:12

I thought like you had something to say there when we were talking about No, no. No, I threw you a softball and I knew you're gonna hit out and I hit it

24:21

Thanks, it was good. No, I mean we could go through John 11 as well Go through John 11 and then

24:28

I want to read first Peter. Yeah, go ahead John 11 is Extremely long if you wanna

24:34

Okay, first Peter 1 3 one of my favorites blessed be the God and Father of our

24:39

Lord Jesus Christ who according to his great mercy Has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

24:50

And then even on the back of that Colossians 2 13 when you were dead in your transgressions

24:56

Little shout out to the name of the show here dead men walking when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh

25:03

He he made you alive together with him having forgiven us all our transgressions

25:08

So a lot of verses they're showing God being the author of salvation and that grace being

25:15

Irresistible when God chooses to save and shows you that grace, you know I liken it to basically and we've talked about this before is the book of Job You know, who are you?

25:26

Oh man to open your mouth, right? I kind of feel that way about God's grace now Within these doctrines of grace.

25:34

There's other types of grace Like a common grace and we've kind of touched on that in other episodes

25:39

You know, the Bible says even nature itself is a type of common grace that reflects

25:44

God's glory you know the fact that you have a An Ecosystem and you have rain and you have

25:53

Sun and you have shelter and you have ways to find food all these things are even a common type of grace

26:00

Meaning you don't even have to be a believer and you can still take the Sun will come up tomorrow and the

26:07

Sun will come up tomorrow Bet your bottom dollar Wait, what song is that?

26:13

I thought you were going into Annie Tomorrow I think that's Tomorrow is it?

26:20

Yeah Way Vibrato tomorrow

26:29

Okay, it feels like it's just me and you in the studio it's getting a little weird man He was looking right in my eyes when he was doing that.

26:36

Gosh, I got creeped out a little bit, but a good voice Thank you. Thank you. Did you sing in your band at all? I sang back up It was

26:43

BGV's man because that was the that was that I could I could put my head down Look at the guitar.

26:50

Yeah, and then look up and go When you when you guys are doing

26:56

Michael Jackson You're in there yeah, who's wait, what is it

27:06

Barry Gibb? Who's there? Yeah for BG's. Is that it? Okay, yeah, you had a little man they had some good songs

27:13

I Don't know if you knew that but uh, you said Michael Jackson Michael Jackson's favorite band

27:19

Was it pretty sure was the BG's? Yeah. Yeah one of his time kind of makes sense Man, they were so good.

27:25

I never really got into him. Oh, no Yeah, and I I mean I grew up on the oldies and stuff. So it was like I mean they were

27:33

It's pretty legalistic like tight like I can't listen to but it was

27:39

This is every day so I missed out on a lot of that stuff when

27:45

I started getting in my teenage years I was like, oh my gosh, what is all this music? You mean there's there's more to life than Rich Mullins and Carmen pianos right

27:58

No, I can't I can't say any more about that I feel bad about the last episode Okay back to your resistible grace, yeah something that everyone most most

28:10

Reformed will would bring up is the or maybe not. I don't know the

28:16

Lazarus discussion, you know from John 11 where Lazarus is in the tomb and and Christ comes up and says

28:25

You know Lazarus Lazarus come forth and Lazarus didn't just stay in there and go

28:34

No, no, thanks. I'm not doing it staying in here That's my choice, right?

28:41

You know, he he came out because Christ called him, you know, sure So yeah from deathable grace.

28:47

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah total depravity when When Jesus tells you to do something or command something it gets done gets done because he is the

28:57

Son of God, right Did you see my Instagram post that said Lazarus was the only woke

29:02

Christian? Oh, yeah woke Said I had to break it to some of y 'all but Lazarus was the only woke

29:10

Christian And you can go that's what you think Greg. You can go to dead men walking

29:15

Instagram. Yeah more of those witty Amazing memes because as we know

29:22

Jason doesn't read the Bible. I know he just reads memes and that's where he gets his document theology

29:29

Dude, I mean, it's so it is so funny. I sprinkle so many memes into my theological

29:36

Right learning. I mean, it's yeah, it's fun. I mean eat ref tunes. We talk to ref tunes Yeah, right some good stuff there.

29:44

But uh All right, moving on pressing pressing on Here we go guys yeah, so I guess for me when

29:53

I read through when I you know, Read through the Bible and have read through the Bible over the last

29:59

Well, I grew up in a Christian home. So since I could read I remember reading the

30:05

Bible when I was five Okay, four years. Mr. Perfect. Yeah Perfect I Tell people all the time.

30:13

I said the sinner's prayer when I was seven and I got saved at 24 You know take what you will from that but I never even as a young kid

30:24

And even a teenager. I I I wasn't given the terms of You know irresistible grace and pervenient grace

30:33

But I never saw and it just didn't make sense to me that there was like this grace inside of me or this thing inside of me that I could eventually choose

30:41

God it felt like It was something God did for me even even as like a young kid and I didn't even know the theology behind you know

30:50

That's why when I stumbled on to Reformed theology in my mid -20s. I was like Where has this been all my life right?

30:59

Like what this is explaining everything all the doubts and all the confusion and all of the kind of so -called contradictions and what

31:08

I've been taught versus what the Bible says and When I saw that in my mid -20s and then basically wrestled with it for Jeez, probably a good six or seven years of like what is this?

31:20

Okay? Am I am I this now or is this a real thing? Is this heretical is this right?

31:26

right and the more I read the word and then would read a book and then read more the word and then listen to a

31:31

Debate and then read the word and then you know read a newsletter and then read the word and read another book and it just started

31:37

Coming together to me to where when I finally was introduced about three or four years later

31:44

So like probably 29 or 30 into the doctrines of grace. I went oh my gosh This all makes sense to me.

31:50

This makes spiritual sense biblical sense Logical sense right and there's so many texts that you can pull

31:59

For each point sure, you know, it's it's not just we're we're picking and choosing

32:04

Right, you know like we have a lot of verses like we could probably go through even more than we're reading right now

32:11

Sure for irresistible grace. This isn't just a you know, let's pull this verse and make something up.

32:17

This is yeah, you know That's I think that's a distinction too because you know reformed theology or Calvinistic view isn't it sometimes by non -reformed or non

32:32

Calvin It Calvinistic people it seems like it's a sect within Christianity when in fact it's been there since the the founding, you know since the disciples in the in the founding fathers of our faith and I think that makes the distinction you get sometimes you can get a denomination.

32:52

I have this big book big thick book It's 500 pages and it said and it's all Well as of 2018, there's more now every denomination and essentially ministry

33:03

Registered in the United States you serious and it tells the denomination when it was founded by who how many inherits it has its core

33:09

Beliefs, right? So it's a reference book. Yeah, and you can literally just thumb through it It has everything in there from seventh -day advents

33:15

So I was just looking at it 20 minutes before he came over and I just happened to flip it open and they had

33:20

Ligonier Ministries in there because it's a technical ministry RCS for all started this year 1971 and I was reading through it yeah, so from ministry to denomination and Sometimes you'll read and you know, the blurb will be four paragraphs and that's the whole denomination and it was like well

33:38

Henry Believed everything that Job believed in in the second reformed first Church of Christ, right?

33:46

Kelvin Southern Baptist. Yeah, except They did not like that ushers greeted before the service

33:54

So he went off and started in like old church and people followed him yeah, and you know and it's like and he and he quoted the one scripture that says you shall sit in the

34:05

Sanctuary when the Lord thy God, you know, and it's like, oh my gosh one verse taken out of context

34:11

This guy started a whole denomination You know, he's got you know, 129 people hanging in there since 1945 right it's still a denomination

34:19

They're going strong, but a lot of people have no idea that that's what it started. Yes. No. Oh, no, it's so interesting

34:25

I'll let you borrow the book because you just read these nominations and you're like what? You know you had one.

34:31

Oh, man. I wish I could remember it, but they were they were disagreed on How many times they should meet a week

34:40

Now this this just goes to and it really is a bad look for Christianity I think because it's like guys we have to get together and understand that there's first degree to doctrinal issues

34:51

Yeah, and secondary. Yeah, like our first or you know, our primary doctrinal issues are like who was

34:57

God who's Jesus? How are we saved and what we must do to be saved? Everything out, you know the

35:03

Godhead and the Trinity everything else. Are those tertiary? Our secondary or tertiary yeah what they're called issues

35:09

Yeah, you know if if you believe that men shouldn't wear hats in church.

35:15

Well, I think that's a secondary issue I don't think you need to start another denomination or church because of it

35:21

But my I don't know my great my greater point to that was I don't know now We've been talking about it for 10 minutes.

35:27

I don't know what my greater point was It was all good stuff But I mean we were just talking about how how there's a lot of verses that can support this idea

35:37

Thank you, and that's my point stulip. So what a stulip if you will So when you talk about Reformed or Calvinist you have like you said

35:45

Hundreds right of verses through from the big from you know, Genesis to Genesis They say revelation

35:50

Genesis to the maps as one of my preacher buddies used to say the whole Bible So it's not like this specific thing where it's like Oh, we'll take like these six verses right and make a whole theology and call it the doctrines of grace

36:02

You have hundreds right and it's it's things that like I said both the disciples the prophets the poets in the early church fathers all talked about wrestled with and some came to different conclusions, right

36:18

But still a secondary issue If I meet a brother in Christ and we believe in the

36:25

Trinity we believe in God being fully man fully gut or Jesus being fully man fully God the remissions of sin the atonement right all those

36:32

Things and he says oh, but by the way, I don't believe that I choose my salvation.

36:39

I think I have something to do with it God like makes a way for me, but I ultimately choose I'm gonna still call him a brother in Christ, right?

36:45

I think by looking through that lens of Theology it can kind of damper your

36:53

Your sanctification in your walk not that I'm saying, you know, anyone who believes that is some kind of weak

36:59

Christian I'm just saying for me personally When I look at the Bible through the Reformed lens, it has only strengthened my resolve

37:09

Helped my sanctification process blessed blessed me in the process of giving glory to God, right and And reason why a spouse to that one because I believe it's biblical too because I see its actual work in my life and strengthening my relationship with Christ and my walk and my faith and my sanctification right and and I Just a piggyback on that.

37:33

I Don't have so many red flags Within these teachings right because it's not so confusing that it's you know

37:41

And I mean this with all sincerity and humbleness but you know if it if it goes into The prosperity gospel sure.

37:53

I can speak things into being I'm my own God sure, um,

37:58

I need to roll or Just to show that I'm a Christian or that the Spirit is inside of me like all these different things

38:06

You know, I I don't know That I Would want to be a part of a chaotic sure, you know

38:19

Yeah gathering, you know, right these these are things that In the

38:24

Reformed teaching. I feel that there aren't many Things that you you do have to struggle with some of the some of it, you know

38:33

But I think the the end conclusion because you have so many different angles of learning it

38:39

You know with so many different verses from the Bible, you know the word You know became life, you know

38:47

I mean, we're we're we're learning from God's Word the Theano stas the

38:54

God breathed word, you know, you know, you were fluent in Greek now I am absolutely fluent in Greek.

39:00

Did you learn that on a meme and Actually No, I learned that from dr.

39:06

James White. Maybe you heard of that's his favorite. Maybe you heard of them Yeah, no, I you know,

39:12

I I try to keep my ear bent towards the Greek stuff Yeah, and like I always end up forgetting it.

39:18

There's there's just a few a few turn. We should just learn it We should yeah, just be like, let's do it

39:23

Let's take all the three to four years of our life be more than that Well, I think we could get a basic understanding in four years.

39:30

Don't you think? I don't know That's a really hard way. Have you seen it has taken me 18 years to understand

39:35

Spanish. So, oh really? It's taking taking me 39 years to understand El Loco Poco Fool me once shame on me.

39:53

Yeah Fool me what I'm saying is once get fooled can't get yeah, that's an actual quote from George W Bush It's my favorite quote of all time.

40:01

Please anyone listening go look it up Just type in George W Bush get fooled. He's trying to say fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me to 40 ,000 people at a live event and he literally says fool me once shame on yeah, and you can see as soon as it's like Going off the rails.

40:18

Yeah, what's the new one Biden? Yeah, you Fool me What's gift what

40:25

I'm saying is once again He recovers nicely Biden what's the new one with Biden?

40:32

He's like He's trying to say these these for these things in the

40:38

Oh the self -evident the creator The guy with the

40:44

Korea, you know what I'm talking about That's sad that did that dude's losing it

40:50

I love America He's got early -stage dementia and they're still propping him up the road, man We saw just at the

40:56

DNC at the whole DNC cannot to get all political. It was horrible, but it was sorry He comes on with his wife.

41:02

He says I'm Joe Biden's husband. Yeah She kind of looks at him like oh boy, here we go and at that point it's like live zoom

41:11

I know you can't start, you know, dubbing it and post or anything And he says lady lady lady lady lady calls his wife lady like eight times and I was like look at I'm gonna tell you right here.

41:24

Whoever's listening right now. I have nothing in common with Democrats. Okay at all but Boy, do

41:33

I feel I feel sorry for well, maybe I shouldn't feel sorry for Joe Biden It's his own pride that's right.

41:39

I should be president, right, but I seriously feel there's I can see everything There's a team of people behind him just pushing him.

41:46

Oh, yeah and propping him up and like do it, right? We'll figure it out once we get there if we win Yeah, you know, but the guy is

41:53

I had two grandparents that went through dementia and he is and I'm not just saying this Because I don't like it but the stuff that's going on that's early stage

42:02

Yeah, he's trying to push through and he has good moments, right? Just like people with early stage dementia do early onset dementia that then eventually sometimes we'll get to Alzheimer's But he has a lot of times where you can just tell in his eyes that deer in the headlights look

42:17

Yeah, that's just his his brain and his mouth is not connecting right and that is a scary thing

42:23

Yeah, and now he's but and it's scary It's got to be scary to him because he's doing it in front of people in cameras.

42:28

Mm -hmm, and then it's recorded, right? I mean if you just take clips of the last six months of some of the insane things

42:35

He said you go why you guys even I know why you're running. He's gonna he's gonna run

42:40

Yeah he's gonna run the country if if he wins he's probably literally gonna get sworn in on the 20th and the and then

42:47

Kamala Harris Exactly, I mean, it's it's run and Cove. It's gonna be gone by November 4th

42:54

I'm calling it now calling it now day after election Actually, no, November 3rd right around 1130.

43:01

They're gonna say yep. Nope. It's gone. It's gone It's a Christmas Joe Biden won in the yeah,

43:11

I mean look at here's the thing with that If you talk to people

43:16

That just don't sit in front of a television or sit in front of their phone all day and watch the news

43:22

Any type of news MSNBC Fox News CBS? I don't care what it is cable news or whatever and they're actually out doing things right like Like how you do you and Mandy me and my wife

43:34

I'm around homeschoolers that are out doing stuff all the time taking our family places We're going on trips right that don't focus on that.

43:41

They're like, yeah, I'm good There's really not a whole lot to worry about right when you are just just zoned in on that fear box

43:49

Or that fear tablet or that fear phone? Oh, yeah, where it's just like fear fear fear you need security this and this it's like dude

43:58

Especially Christians a lot of Christians doing this and I'm like the Lord has not given us the spirit of fear

44:05

Yeah, like do not fear that is a direct commandment from Jesus from God in the

44:11

Bible all across through 66 books do not fear. I am the Lord do not fear

44:16

I'm not giving you the spirit of fear yet I have many Christians and most of the world living in that that fear constant fear constant fear and It's hard to have a conversation.

44:28

Oh when it's it is and it's that way though Cuz it won't even trying to speak true. Well for me because it just doesn't register, you know

44:35

Yeah, like I don't and I'm not saying that from a place of like pride I'm saying that from a place of like humbleness like thank you

44:42

Lord Yeah, that you have not given me the spirit of fear but of peace and love and a sound mind, right?

44:47

You know what? I mean? Because when someone talks to me like that's like oh this and I go yeah, man, you've been watching

44:54

Fox News You've been watching. Yeah, you've been watching Good morning, America and the view.

45:02

Oh Those squawking chickens somebody somebody brought up They hadn't watched any daytime

45:11

TV. Mm -hmm in like 10 years or something like that and They decided last week or the week before that they were just gonna check out some some of the daytime

45:22

TV Okay, so our six hours they were sitting there watching, you know,

45:28

I don't know Even what shows are on now. Good morning, America.

45:34

I could And Whatever they are the view and all that stuff and it was all just just fear and Trump is bad.

45:44

Sure Biden is you know, he needs to be in the White House Like it's all just just liberal talk.

45:52

Yeah liberal speech and I mean, you know, it's like hey everybody has their own view, but these stations are just Directly going after the

46:01

Republican narrative, you know sure and just pushing it and I mean when it comes to Christianity now, it's like we're supposed to bow down to this new liberal wokeness

46:12

You know and we and all of a sudden we can't even have a voice Yeah, you know as a conservative

46:20

Christian as you know as a reformed Christian really sure And you know if you don't piggyback on the social justice stuff

46:28

You're X Y & Z, you know, you're you don't know who Christ really is Yeah, you know, it's all this all this narrative and it's yeah, it's tough for me because a lot of people know me as a political guy

46:41

Right, so I was interested in politics even in in high school like everyone else was doing like their senior

46:47

English project on like Smashing pumpkins in my new Mustang car and I was like nerds and I was doing it in the buying of Congress Like literally you're the nerd went out found this all these books and just Exposed all these congressmen and congresswomen who were like using interest groups for buying all this stuff, right?

47:06

So that kind of kind of corruption and politics always interested me But it's hard for me because it kind of sometimes it crosses over people like well

47:13

You're putting your politics before or you only believe that because of your politics and it's like no first of all

47:19

I'm a presuppositional list. I believe That my world view is the

47:25

Bible is real the Bible is inherent and Is Lord of all creator of everything?

47:30

That's my world view So everything that filters down from that whether it be politically or whatnot and Doug Wilson says a lot about this, too is

47:41

Because of that worldview, right? So when I'm talking about social justice or woke

47:46

Christianity or You know, you know defund the police or you know

47:55

Victimism or you know all these things. It's not because I have a Conservative political worldview

48:03

That just happens to line up with what the Bible says right in some parts and don't get me wrong I'm a registered

48:09

Republican, but I got there's a lot wrong with the Republican Party. Oh, yeah There's a lot wrong with the Democratic Party Trump's not our

48:14

Savior Trump's not our Savior And Jesus was neither one of those political parties, right? I always joke and say he was probably mostly libertarian.

48:22

Yeah If you really want to get down to it, he was all about self -responsibility You know, right, you know,

48:28

I saw a pastor quote on our Instagram account on dead men walking podcast and It was a quote from a pastor and I'm gonna paraphrase but he basically said like when you get up to those pearly gates

48:40

You know, I'm or no it's John Kasich. That's who said it. I'm sorry. John Kasich the governor in Ohio when he did the zoo

48:47

Or the yeah, we did the DNC thing. I'm sorry. That's who it was and he was like, you know I believe in limited government too, but when

48:52

I get up to the pearly gates, he's not st Peter's not gonna ask you about limited government. He's gonna be like how much how many how much poor did you?

48:58

Yeah, how much did you help the poor and we're trying to help the poor and I went right? There's the problem because he doesn't understand that Jesus made it your personal responsibility to give charity

49:08

Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus say hey Create a government that steals money that steals money from people to then give it to other people, right?

49:15

He said no you help the poor right you clothe your brother You turn your cheek on the other enemy on your enemy you you you it was all personal responsibility

49:24

It wasn't go set up a government go set up a group of people go set up a nonprofit Yeah, you know what?

49:30

I mean, so anytime like these liberal liberal Christians or even the moderate and even some conservative ones say

49:36

Oh, we have to have this this program or this tax for the this group of people

49:43

Well, that's not biblical right? Nowhere. Does it say that we do it through the government? Yes governments have been ordained and established by God and we covered that in an episode

49:52

But Jesus's mandate as a believer was no you do it, right? And here's the funny thing if every single

49:58

Christian in the United States Took that individual mandate and just took care of their little part of the world their little part of the world

50:05

We wouldn't need any of these social nets that the government offer, right? I mean, could you imagine that's how it was a hundred and hundred years ago.

50:12

Yeah hundred and twenty years ago I mean you had organizations upon organizations that helped you had social nets and we've talked about this

50:19

I don't want to sound like a broken record. But for me, it's hard because sometimes people think

50:24

I'm crossing my My I guess you could say religious beliefs with my political beliefs and I'll just tell everyone here who's listening

50:33

Oh, no, my worldview first and foremost right through the Word of God. Oh, yeah, and everything filters through that exactly

50:39

Yeah, man, did you see that Bernie Sanders brought up Nero in his in his speech?

50:44

No, he said something about Nero sat around and did nothing

50:51

Wow Rome burned Rome burned. Yeah, okay, and and I'm just like wait a second

50:58

We're all was very involved. Yeah, he was compared he was pretty much calling Trump Yeah, Nero, but I mean it he obviously didn't know anything about Nero.

51:06

He shouldn't had that in his speech Right because the hero was doing some pretty crazy stuff, you know, and and I think all of that was in Revelation Yeah Do you guys want to get into some post mill

51:21

Post I think we should probably I think I think we save that for another okay. Okay, but check this out

51:27

This is the last thing I'll say about post mill on this episode. Okay, but uh, but post mill is just really fun

51:34

Okay, like why really is fan because as you're searching the scriptures as you're looking at history, you know answering these questions

51:45

Matthew 24 mark 13 Luke 17 21 right around there.

51:51

I mean a lot of this stuff you could actually Prove had happened, you know that it happened and yeah, it's just it's just a fun

52:01

More I look into it the more I see When Jesus is this generation won't pass away

52:07

I see the destruction of the temple and Nero and all that stuff fulfilling that right and I don't understand why everyone thinks it has

52:13

To be like eons and eons away, right, right I mean if we we take so that whole chapter we take

52:19

Christ literally and then you're gonna wrap your whole eschatology Around a line and say well that was figurative. Exactly.

52:25

It doesn't make sense to me There's there's just so much we should we should do an episode on post mill or at least scratch the surface of it

52:32

I mean, there's just so much. I mean, it's crazy. But I have I have a few arguments, you know that That might get people thinking a little bit towards post mill and be like maybe

52:45

I should look at this But it's not heresy guys. It's not heresy

52:50

Well for me once again and times eschatology a secondary doctrinal issue, right?

52:55

Yeah, but once again, I think you're The way you live out your

53:01

Christian the way you live Affected by what you believe so when it starts affecting that Then we need to have a discussion because if the world's just going to hell in a handbasket

53:11

I mean and you're just you know, you're just like well, I don't need to do anything then you did you haven't read Matthew 28 and Yeah, you know, no

53:19

I fight but I find that in some of my reformed brothers. They just eventually become nihilist Well, technically

53:25

God knows everything and does everything and predestined So what why do I have to do anything right and that's too far the other way on the other side exactly

53:33

Yeah, so you want to let's finish up here. We're yeah. Yeah up on the hour mark Do you have anything else in our closing remarks for?

53:40

Irresistible grace. I know we kind of got off on some other tangents like we normally do Yep, totally do but I feel like we're staying true to the people who are listening to us

53:48

I guess they wouldn't be coming back if they knew they were right gonna get 19 in 60 minutes

53:54

We I mean you just right we should rename this podcast ADHD. Yeah, exactly

54:00

Exactly. Oh my gosh Oh my I mean, I I do you know how many kids with attention deficit disorder?

54:09

It takes to change a light bulb. Mm -hmm. Do you want to ride bikes? Where's the laughter man, come on man, oh man

54:24

Um, yeah, I had a I had a pretty big section in Romans 8 let's just read it on our way out

54:30

We could you know, you know, I love Roman. Okay, so Romans 8 starting in verse 5 I'm gonna try to make it through this my allergies are

54:39

I probably should be doing the reading cuz you're allergic Oh, it's all good. It's all good Romans 8 in the

54:44

ESV once again Romans 8 5 for those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh

54:52

But those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit For to set the mind on the flesh is death

55:00

But to set the mind on the spirit is life and peace for the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God For it does not submit to God's law indeed.

55:11

It cannot Mmm, those who are in the flesh can cannot please

55:16

God You however are not in the flesh But in the Spirit if in fact the

55:23

Spirit of God dwells in you anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ Does not belong to him

55:30

Let me say that one more time Romans 8 9 part B Anyone who does not have the

55:38

Spirit of Christ does not belong to him But if Christ is in you

55:43

Although the body is dead because of sin the Spirit is life because of righteousness

55:48

If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you He who raised

55:55

Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you

56:03

I could keep going here. I mean this Romans 8 just hits it on the head.

56:08

I mean old so powerful Yeah, so in the yeah, those in the those who are in the flesh cannot please

56:14

God, right? Wow, yeah, and then I mean we're Drawn in You know by the father absolutely and and yes, we can resist

56:27

We do We we we do realize at Some point we can resist sure, you know, but but When the father says

56:40

I want I want them, you know, I We get drawn in and we say yes

56:47

Well, I think in just to sum up here as we're closing because we didn't touch on it too much but when yes, you can resist a common grace you can resist the

56:57

Common grace of God the good things of God that he provides even believers and unbelievers, but when

57:03

God Saves you and it is a irresistible sovereign grace

57:12

My wife says it so well, she goes I couldn't even choose to make right choices in my life when I was not saved

57:18

Why do people think that I could choose to to to choose something as glorious as God, right?

57:25

And it makes so much sense to me. It's like, you know, who am I so When God does choose to save regenerate the heart

57:33

Save the sinner that is irresistible because God is so great So glorious so righteous so holy so awesome in all his splendor

57:43

I would think that there is nothing less than if he comes to me.

57:48

That's like that's like saying Oh, well when I'm in the presence of God, I'll be able to stand and talk to him face to face

57:54

No It says when you're in his presence you are on the floor on your face right in front, you know

58:00

In reverence and all of who he is and I think when you understand who

58:05

God truly is you know one of my favorite verses the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the

58:11

Lord is the reverence of the Lord when you Truly start to understand who God is I think irresistible grace makes a little more sense to you and in what that awesome act is of him being the author of our

58:21

Salvation love it. Yep. Well Jay, I think we're gonna wrap it up here. Yep guys We thank you for listening to two guys ramble through an episode on the irresistible grace

58:31

Hope you picked up something as always make sure you check us out on Instagram YouTube and Facebook at dead men walking podcast

58:42

Also, Jay didn't tell you this yet. So you'll be hearing this for the first time along with the listeners Ah, so just put a couple hundred shirts on order.

58:49

So we got some really nice Tri -blend American apparel dead men walking shirts coming

58:56

So if you listen to the podcast you want one of those let me know we're gonna be given some of those away trucker hats

59:03

We do need to design one of those two. Those will be coming next Yeah, but as soon as they come in, I'll make sure

59:08

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59:14

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59:19

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