July 9, 2019 Show with Phil Sessa & Glenroy Clarke on “Reaching the Lost & Discipling the Saved in the Inner City”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this ninth day of July 2019.

And I'm delighted to have back on the program a returning guest. His name is Phil Cessa.

He is the director of Soul Fishing Ministries and a co -host of the new podcast,

Stop and Think About It. Today we are going to be addressing Reaching the Lost and Discipling the

Saved in the Inner City, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back again to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Phil Cessa.

Thank you very much. Thank you very much. It's an honor to be back on your beloved radio program, and thank you for the privilege and honor to be on it with you today.

Now, I happen to know that your pastor is a longtime friend of mine that I've known for many years, even before he was a pastor of a church plant when he was an elder at the

North Shore Baptist Church of Bayside, Queens, pastored by my friend Ed Moore, who

I met, I believe, within the first couple of weeks of him taking the call to the pastorate at North Shore Baptist Church quite a long time ago.

And it's been my honor and privilege to call him my friend all these years. This goes back, I believe, to the early 1990s, if I'm not mistaken.

But I am thrilled to hear of the wonderful progress that's being made by the grace of God with the church that Peter Nicotra was sent out to plant.

Tell us about this church where you are a member, pastored by Peter Nicotra in Queens, New York. So Grace Baptist Church is located in Woodhaven, New York.

And Pastor Peter is one of the pastors, and the other pastor is yours truly.

So when coming to the church and becoming a member of the church, the

Lord, in his graciousness, saw fit to raise me up as an elder, and I had a heart to really just work alongside

Pastor Peter and lift up his arms and shoulder the burden and the joys of the ministry at Grace Baptist Church.

We have a plethora of ethnicities. I mean, we are

Heinz 57, if you've ever seen a church as such. I mean, we have Italians and Jamaicans and Guyanese and West Indies.

We got people from, like, all over the map, all over the world, which is what

Queens is made up of. So it's really a beautiful thing. So at refreshment time, and you're tasting all the different tastes of the world at refreshment time.

But what I really love is you're seeing just so many different ethnicities serving the same

Lord and Savior together. Like, that is our common denominator. I don't think there's anything greater than that.

Well, I'm sorry. You lost me at Italians. I no longer want to support this ministry. There you go.

There you go. Well, I am, in fact, going to send an invitation to your co -pastor,

Peter Nicotra, that I'd like to have him on again on Iron Trip and Zion. It was many years ago that he was my guest on the program back in the days when we were broadcasting out of New York.

And I just want to give the website for that church. I hope to give it later on as well. But the website is gbcny .org.

That's gbcny .org. And that is Grace Baptist Church.

And that is located in Woodhaven, New York. So anybody living in that area, or if you have friends, family, and loved ones in that area, send them over to pay a visit to Grace Baptist Church, Woodhaven, New York.

Now, let's hear something about Soul Fishing Ministries.

For the sake of our listeners who did not hear your previous interviews on our program, or perhaps they just are totally unaware of Soul Fishing Ministries, and I know it has absolutely nothing to do with the actual sport or recreation known as fishing, but it's referring to us being fishers of men as Christians.

That is our call and duty. But if you could, let us know about Soul Fishing Ministries. Yeah, so the

Lord really just burned my heart when I was a young believer to start sharing the gospel with the lost, and I didn't even know what

I was doing. I never heard the word evangelism or missions when I was a young believer, just as a teenager.

And I was just sharing with people what I was reading in the Bible as they were asking questions. And then when

I realized what I was doing, that I was supposed to be doing it, I went off to Bible college, graduated, came into the city from the suburbs, and have been in the city ever since.

And really, Ray Comfort, who I know many people are very familiar with, his ministry has been a tremendous blessing to me, and a lot of frustrations that I had concerning biblical

Christianity and evangelism were kind of like laid to rest by listening to his materials.

And as a result, I've met him personally, but all through all his videos and tapes and everything like that, the

Lord has graciously raised up Soul Fishing Ministries to minister to people in several ways.

One of the things we do is evangelism outreach, discipleship, apologetics, helping families really learn what being biblical families,

Christian families, should look like in this day and age, prayer that would undergird everything in our lives, and then how to raise up men and women to learn to exposit

God's Word, men from the pulpit, women in Bible studies with other women or to children, and men to whosoever will.

And in addition, men doing open -air preaching. And so that's been just a tremendous blessing, especially to see different men raised up, men discipling others, women discipling others, and to see men preaching the gospel and learning how to just carry out the steps of biblical hermeneutics into the opportunities that we give them to step into the pulpit, if you will.

And if anybody wants to look up that website, it is soulfishingministries .org, soulfishingministries .org.

And now let's hear about your brand -new podcast, Stop and Think About It. So there were three brothers.

Myself, a brother named Glenroy Clark, who's a deacon at our church and who also preaches at our men's breakfast on occasions and runs

Bible studies, and Steve Langella, formerly from North Shore Baptist Church, has become a member at our church as well and had kind of the same heart as myself to come and help with the ministry at Grace Baptist.

So Steve Langella preaches, he teaches, he preaches on Sunday mornings as well, and he is one of the guys, one of the podcasters, and it was really in his heart three years ago that he really wanted to do a podcast, and I had it in my heart, and Glenroy had it in his heart, and the

Lord brought all of our hearts together and launched it, and Steve does all of the post -production.

He knows all about the equipment that, Chris, I'm sure you know about. I had no clue. I mean, I know what a microphone is and how to plug it in.

You demonstrate far too much confidence in me. I'm a host of the program. I'm not an engineer, and James White, if by some miracle is listening right now, he would be laughing his brains out having you claim that I know anything about technology.

Well, yeah, so Steve, he spoke to me, asked if we wanted to do it, and we kind of started off a little bit with ready, shoot, aim, to be entirely honest.

We didn't exactly know how to roll things out, and it was a lot of zeal. We had a lot of ideas, a lot of passion.

We had biblical knowledge, but kind of how to put it in a format that was exciting and engaging and putting it on air was something that we had never done before, per se.

So we began this, and Steve got all the artwork done.

Steve got the promo video and the promo music, and so he did all of that legwork.

He sent me link after link after link and told me what to order, so I was clicking and linking for quite some time as money was going out of the account.

But praise the Lord, we needed $800 for Soul Fishing Ministries to purchase two full sets of equipment, and $800 was provided by generous donors.

Some family members and some friends, and thank God it all came in, and we've purchased the equipment, and we've been using the equipment for God's honor and glory.

Well, praise God. Well, I wish that you had consulted me before picking the theme of your podcast, because being a

New York podcast, I have a better title. It's Don't Forget About It.

Oh, that one should work. And you used to be in New York, and you left us.

Yeah, I just couldn't handle the busyness of New York.

I needed a place where I could just be in a quiet little area and mind my own business and have people mind their own business.

But anyway. Carlisle, right? That's right, Carlisle, PA. South Central, PA. I've been there.

I've been there. The home of the United States Headquarters of Banner of Truth, and also the home of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com,

who is a sponsor of our show. And Iron Sharp Advisors, even, over there, right? Yes, that's where I'm sitting right now.

It is a nice little quaint place. I have been there. I was there a few times. And I went to college over there in Valley Forge, so not completely so far away from you.

I spent four years of my life there. So that's why I'm back over here. And Dickinson College is right within about a three -minute walk from where I'm sitting.

And unfortunately, Dickinson College was at one time, many, many years ago, a

Christian institution for higher learning. But sadly, it is an extremely liberal place today.

But a gorgeous campus, a very large, multi -location campus all surrounding where I live here.

Wherever you walk, you see a building and a campus grounds affiliated with Dickinson College.

But today we are going to be addressing, as I announced earlier, reaching the lost and discipling the saved in the inner city.

First of all, what from your experience can you say might be a difference between reaching the lost to start with in the inner city as opposed to a suburb or more rural area?

One thing I could say that I don't know if you would echo this. And I know that somebody out there might somehow, in some insane attempt to discredit what

I'm saying, twist it into something that I'm saying that is racist, which is not.

It's the exact opposite actually. But I have found, being from the suburbs, that whenever I have been a part of any kind of public evangelism effort, handing out tracts, anything like that, those passing by from minority groups,

African American, Hispanic, etc., typically would immediately be politely responsive in some way to what

I was doing. Very often thanking me for a tract, smiling, etc.

Whereas most of the white people look at you like you're insane or have leprosy, and they just want to be away from you as quickly as possible.

Is that anything reflective of what you have experienced? A hundred percent.

A hundred percent. Verbatim what you have said, I've seen it, I've experienced it.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It just seems like certain people think they don't need the gospel,

I guess, for whatever reason. Just kind of like, you know, like they know you're there, but they're kind of acting like they don't see you kind of a thing.

You know, they made the eye contact and turned their eyes away. But yeah, I mean, I find, you know, all the groups aforementioned are more polite and more receptive.

I've had just many more conversations on the streets with people from the islands, people from Africa, people that have just lived and grew up in the inner city.

And this seems like there's a lot more openness and wanting to dialogue about these things.

So yeah, I absolutely concur. I think that is just a reality. Yeah, and I have to chime in that I have only done this, any kind of outdoor evangelism, in New York.

I've never done it in the Bible Belt, where you might get a similar reaction. I don't know, you might get a similar reaction from white folks who have more of a cultural

Christianity going on there. Because I believe that many in the black community are receptive.

It might not have anything to do with an actual indwelling of the

Holy Spirit or the fact that they are regenerate. It may just be because of the fact that Christianity and church life seems to be more embedded in the life of the average black

American citizen. I mean, it just, it's even in the north. Yeah. Whereas, you know, down south you have an equal thing going on with whites and blacks.

Yeah, I would agree. I mean, I work in a public school in New York City in Harlem. And a lot of the students that I have grew up going to a church.

Some of them still go, some of them not as much. But there is a ton of kids, teenagers and children that are now adults that were churched at least, or at best.

So I think, you know, that undergirding in their life, there is a certain kindness, a certain receptivity that they have when we're speaking to them.

And whoever that may be. I mean, you know, I've taken out other brothers, African American brothers with me.

And, you know, it's been absolutely fantastic as we share the gospel. But yeah, there is definitely a certain receptivity to more minority groups than more

Caucasian people. Now what more do you care to say about your approach to first reaching the lost?

We will get to discipling the saved, of course, is a very important element because unfortunately there are many crusade -type ministries that are all about reaching the lost with the gospel.

And sometimes, tragically, in fact it's more than sometimes, it's perhaps in this day and age most frequent that the gospel is distorted and candy -coated to such a degree that the disciples might not even recognize it as the gospel.

I'm talking about the first century disciples. Yes. But many of these ministries do little, if anything, to follow up and disciple people that claim to have received

Christ. But first of all, let me hear more about that first aspect coming from your point of view with Soul Fishing Ministries and also as a pastor of Grace Baptist Church there in Queens, New York.

Yeah, and so I think that a couple things that are very important. One thing is, are you willing to speak to people that you've never met, strangers?

And are you willing to dialogue with them about the most important thing in this world, the things of eternity, the gospel that you say you love and the

Christ that you say that you adore? And so I think it must start first with our own hearts, realizing that people are really going to a real hell, and there's a real

Christ, a real Savior that saved us from our sin, and wouldn't we want everyone to know that?

And so I think it really has to start with our own hearts. Jesus said, pray to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers, and then in the next verse he tells them to go.

Pray and go. That seems like a very good formula. Talk to the Lord about men, then go out and talk to men about the

Lord. And so I think we must be able to have one -on -one conversations, one on a couple, you know, if there's some people in a group, that we would be willing to stop them in their tracks.

They might be going someplace, but they might be willing to stop and talk to you about the things of eternity.

They might have been going to Modell's that day, they might be going to McDonald's that day, or wherever they're going, or they're coming from someplace, and then they meet you, and that might be just an absolute divine appointment.

And if you remember Philip in the book of Acts, he was in a massive revival in Samaria, and God called him from Samaria to go out to that dusty road to meet one

Ethiopian eunuch to reach for Christ. And that's how the gospel got to Africa, by the way, which is absolutely an amazing thing.

So the one -on -one witnessing, the verbal conversation back and forth, I think is key.

Are you willing to have those conversations with people for the sake of eternity?

The other aspect is passing out gospel tracks to people. Sometimes people are in a rush.

They don't have time to stop and talk to you for whatever reason, or they don't want to stop and talk, but they might take a track.

Now they're sitting on the train, or when they get home, and they have time to read that gospel track.

And so we've had several people come to our church and stay in our church, and that we've baptized that have come to know

Christ through our evangelistic efforts with Grace Baptist Church. We normally go over to the

Queen Center Mall right there near our church, and we just pound the pavement with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And as we're out there, the other aspect that we do besides verbally and one -on -one and getting gospel tracks is that several of the men open -air preach.

We just kind of pass the mic around. A guy will take five, ten minutes and spend some time open -air preaching to those that are passing by.

And on occasion, a little crowd may gather. Now this comes out of a page of Ray Comfort where he talks about hecklers and how you should pray for hecklers and pray that you handle them with wisdom.

Because there's a fine line between getting a heckler so angry that he wants to punch your face in and where the back -and -forth draws a crowd of people, and it's cordial.

And he said, you will find that line. So thank God up to this point

I've never found the line of getting hit. But a few weeks ago we had a young man, and he started kind of shouting things back.

I don't believe in Jesus. Jesus never existed. So I prided him to come over. I said, tell me why you believe that.

Tell me where you got that from. And he drew a little crowd around, and now it's not just him and I here having dialogue, but it's everyone behind him hearing and listening to the gospel because I was answering him from the gospel.

And so it was really a great time. I really enjoyed the opportunity, and I thank

God for sending a heckler our direction on that day. By the way,

I'm going to give our e -mail address for anybody wanting to send in a question of their own. We're Phil Cessa of Soul Fishing Ministries.

Our e -mail address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

I would think, when it comes to public or outdoor or open -air evangelism, that picking a location to do this is of key importance.

And I have heard from, I have done interviews on this subject before, and I've heard from brethren whom

I respect, that the gospel is enough of an offense that we don't need to add our own offensiveness.

And therefore, we should not be in the face of people, like if they're involved in open -air dining on a sidewalk cafe, right in their faces, evangelizing them when they're trying to eat, or any other kind of a thing where you're interrupting something.

The ideal location, I have heard, maybe you disagree, is really more of an area where there's traffic moving, people walking by, rather than you intruding upon some kind of an event where you are actually ruining some kind of recreational activity and bringing a negativity into the gospel that doesn't need to be there, because the gospel, as I said, is already offensive.

So what do you have to say about that? Yeah, so I mean, imagine if there's like a sidewalk cafe, and you set up shop like right in front of it, and people are sitting down to have lunch.

You know, and then you're blaring with the gospel at that time. That could be an annoyance to people.

It could be disruptive to the business owner that's right there. And so I think we want to be mindful of that, and probably curb that type of location.

We want to go to locations where you have those that are passing by and that can stop if they so choose, perhaps near a train station, traffic is moving, they're going back and forth, coming to and from their destinations, and some of them will stop and speak with you and stop and listen.

So the place we go, personally, at the Queen's Center Mall, it's outside the mall, so many people are passing by to go toward the entrance either one way or the other, and there are some halal carts out there.

You know, nobody's stopping per se and sitting down at a table eating there. They're just grabbing their grub, and they might stop and sit in a seat, you know, in this little park area where we preach, but it's not like a dining area per se.

Somebody can stop there and talk or have an ice cream or just rest. So I think it's really an ideal location, and locations of that sort where people can, there's heavy traffic flow and people can stop and listen or they can keep it moving.

And for those that keep it moving, we can hand out gospel tracts as they're moving along and distribute, really, hundreds of gospel tracts in one evening so that gospel has run out hundreds of times verbally, one -on -one, through open -air preaching, and through the gospel tracts going out.

So I do think we definitely need to be mindful of that. We have to go to our first break right now, and before we go to the break,

I want to read a question from a listener who happens to be a mutual friend of ours, somebody who has been actively promoting

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio ever since we went on the air. His name is Al Yerkes, and he's on the team of Wretched Radio and Wretched TV, hosted by our friend

Todd Friel. And Al Yerkes asked the question,

Can you ask my dear friend Phil Sessa why he attended a Joel Osteen event at Yankee Stadium a few years ago?

I was with him. It was a great outreach to share the gospel with the throngs of Osteen followers.

And if you could answer that when we come back, because I think that also connects with some other questions that I might have.

But if you could answer that when we come back. If anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

chrisarnson at gmail dot com. And please, as always, give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. And only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away. We're going to be right back with Phil Sessa right after these messages from our sponsors. Got to tell you, for my money,

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It's a great conference. I love it. And Chris Arnson was there last year. He's been there, I think, every year.

It's great to see him there. You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place.

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We're now back with our guest today, Phil Sessa, who is one of the pastors along with Peter Nicotra at Grace Baptist Church of Woodhaven, New York.

He's also the director of Soul Fishing Ministries, and one of the hosts of Stop and Think About It, a new podcast, and we are addressing reaching the lost and discipling the saved in the inner city.

If you have a question, join us via email at ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, ChrisArnzen at gmail .com,

and Phil, as you may remember, we heard from our mutual friend Al Yerkes with Wretched Radio and Wretched TV who wanted to know why you went to a

Joel Osteen -related event to evangelize. Well, initially

I wanted to see if anybody had a bigger smile than Joel Osteen and Al Yerkes. He beats his act any day of the week.

Even though anybody that knows Al Yerkes, picture the smile of Joel Osteen on the face of Chuck Colson and you have

Al Yerkes. I never thought of that, but yeah, that's a pretty accurate description.

Yes, yes, and if you want to see Al Yerkes, you can see him at the G3 conference coming up in January.

Yep, I see him every year that I've been there, and it's always a great joy to see my brother Al Yerkes. Yeah, so I got to tell you,

Chris, God has done some amazing things through the initial way that Al Yerkes and I met.

There was a real change in my life, in my family's life, through meeting

Al. Here are several things that took place. One, I was going to an

Assembly of God church at the time I had formerly been credentialed with the Assemblies of God for many years.

I had let my credentials lapse as my theology began to move in a

Reformed direction where it is now. I had preached and taught in the church that I was going to.

I've done a lot of stuff on evangelism. I did outreaches in the community of that local church and served faithfully over there.

I heard on, I don't know if it was Way of the Master Radio, no, I think it was Richard at the time,

I believe in 2014, and someone in the New York area was planning to go to Yankee Stadium and pass out the biggest question, which is produced by Richard Radio, and wanted others to join in the area or if they wanted to travel into the area to help.

So I contacted Richard Radio. I believe I spoke with Trish Ramos and she put me in touch with Al Yerkes.

Trish is affiliated with Red Grace, right? I believe so. Yes, her husband is involved in that.

Yes, with Emilio Ramos. And so Al and I were in contact with each other.

I asked Al if he had any experience or if he had ever done a large -scale outreach, and he said at that time he had not.

So I said, okay, well, would you like us to help you? He said, what can you do? And I began to share some of the things that we do with Soul Fishing Ministries.

So I made some flyers, sent out the word, and the pastor of the church that I was going to did not want me to go to this outreach.

Not that he particularly liked Osteen, but he thought some people may get saved through Osteen's message.

Well, I disagreed with him and I ended up going that day, and that day I met two people.

I met Al Yerkes and I met Peter Nicotra. Wow. Can you see where this is going?

Yeah. I mean, just what a phenomenal day that was.

The Lord put me in touch with two beautiful brothers, one that has now moved away to work with Wretched, but we still love him and we still talk regularly.

And the other is Peter Nicotra, which I'm serving with at the local church of Grace Baptist now.

And so Al and I, the Lord just knit a heart together and a beautiful friendship has developed.

And I've learned a lot from Al. I don't know if he's ever learned anything from me, but it's been very gracious to have a great relationship with Al and his wife, who is with child actually.

Praise God. So Al retired and now he's going to have a baby. So praise

God for that. Yes. Something tells me that Al robbed the cradle then. I think

Al's probably smiling right now. But yeah, so when

I went out there, I meet Peter and I go, you're a pastor and you're out evangelizing.

Like I was shocked because unfortunately, at least maybe just the many that I know, most pastors don't go out and evangelize outside.

I mean, I know they evangelize in their preaching and I know that is evangelistic preaching per se, but I normally don't see them go out.

And so Al and I, we passed out tons of the biggest question and I think we must have had 30 something people out there, but initially

Al thought it was just going to be him and his lovely wife. And the Lord provided a great number of laborers that day to labor alongside of now,

I thought it was just going to be me, Jose, Al and his wife and a lot of other people came out. So, I mean, it was great, but the great thing was there's 52 ,000 people that can fit in Yankee stadium.

And again, there's tons of people coming, you know, from the inner city area to hear the person that's considered like the pastor of America now.

Yikes or zoinks as Todd would say, quoting the Scooby -Doo commercial or show.

And so 52 ,000 people, we figured, you know what, this is a place where we should plant ourself for these hours.

And so we gave out thousands and thousands of Bible tracts and DVDs, gospel literature.

It went out to thousands and thousands of people in that one day. And we preach the gospel out there because there was no true gospel going in on the inside.

Right. Let me just backtrack a little bit to clarify a couple of things.

I'm sure that you have no opposition to pastors who happen to be so incredibly busy caring for the flock that God has called them to shepherd that they don't have time to be involved in a lot of outdoor evangelism and other activities outside the caring for the flock.

I know that you were very blessed and impressed by Peter Nicotra doing that, but, you know, you have some pastors that have very large congregations and God is, you know, really wringing them dry to the point where they don't have any other time than to dedicate to those very people in the congregation that they pastor.

Don't you agree that that can be a legitimate thing for a pastor not to be involved in, you know, these outdoor activities on a regular basis anyway?

Yeah, I mean, I don't per se think that everybody goes out, pastor or person in the pew, goes out to a particular outreach, but that everybody, all of God's people, pastors included, as they go around their day -to -day life, they go to their barber, they're sharing the gospel as they go out and about with their lives in the midst of sharing and laboring over the sheep in their local church.

Amen. Right. And the other thing I wanted to bring up, because it's a very controversial area when it comes to outdoor or open air or public evangelism,

I think that there are brethren, even those, some of those that theologically agree with us, who are theologically

Reformed and so on, who unfortunately, I believe, go to the events held by Christians who are in disagreement with us theologically, or they might even be false

Christians. I have a hard time believing Joel Osteen is actually regenerate. But at the same time, don't you think that very great care needs to be made or had when you are going to an event other than your own, and that you are not purposely disrupting the event and that kind of a thing?

Because, you know, the old saying is true. It's not necessarily a saying out of the Bible, but it's still true.

What goes around comes around. I mean, you could very likely in the near future have homosexuals or Muslims or anybody else interrupting your actual worship services.

So don't you think there is a balance that needs to be made when going to an event like that?

It goes back really to the question I asked about open -air preaching right next to a sidewalk cafe.

I think you have to be careful not to be adding an offense to the

Gospel when the Gospel itself is offensive enough. Yeah, and so I think you have to be mindful of who you're going to, which group is there, what event is taking place, and so you have to take a lot of things into consideration when you go out and you're going to proclaim the

Gospel. Sometimes it might be best actually not to open -air preach at a large event, and maybe quietly hand out

Gospel traction, have one -on -one conversations with people standing in line, and things of that nature. You know, a good brother friend of mine just went to the

Gay Pride Parade, and they chose to do some type of interviews with people one -on -one rather than, you know, loud, boisterous open -air preaching.

It would seem that that would not have been the best forum for out loud open -air preaching.

Did they wear t -shirts that said, I swear I'm not gay? Right, right, right.

So yeah, but I think you have to really just be very wise in going and who you're going with and what the plan is for being out there, because we have to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves as we share the truth in love, and so how can we make sure we're firing on kind of all those pistons at the same time is very key.

Because sometimes open -air preachers can be very arrogant. Yes. Sometimes, I'll throw myself in the mix there because I'm an open -air preacher, you could want to attract attention to yourself, or you could want to cut down people that are walking by and like just slam them and, you know, make somebody feel stupid or what have you, but that shouldn't be the heart that we have.

And I would probably shamefully say that I have had that heart at times, and God has had to correct my heart, and so when

I open -air preach, if I feel that I'm stepping into those waters or getting to that line in any way,

I try to ask the other brothers that hear me preach, and even some of the other ladies, you know, was

I arrogant? Did I sound prideful? Because if I do, then

I have to, you know, make sure that I repent of that and not do that. But there is this idolatry sometimes that can come with open -air preaching that you just want to cut people down, call people off, use all of the apologetics that you know, and really just dwindle people down to size.

That's not promoting the gospel, that's promoting yourself. Right. In fact, arrogant, maverick, lone wolf open -air preachers destroyed a ministry that Dr.

James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries had for decades near the

Mormon Temple and also other Mormon events, annual events like the

Easter pageant and other things, where he would be out there respectfully, out of love and compassion and concern for the souls of Mormons, he would be handing out tracts, he would be having respectful conversations with Mormons, and unfortunately, all of a sudden, the word got out to some lone wolf,

King James -only fundamentalists, who were not even representing or even members, some of them, of local churches, who were out there burning

Joseph Smith and effigy and using all kinds of mocking sloganry, you know, about holy underwear and on and on, and James could no longer be in their midst because he was being broad -brushed with them, and it brought an end to a very valuable ministry.

But anyway, we're going to be going to our midway break right now, and our midway break is longer than our normal breaks because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of our show. They air our show twice a day in a pre -recorded format, and they air their own public service announcements and commercials to localize

Onion Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, a requirement of the FCC that they have their programming time localized.

So while they air their own commercials and public service announcements local to Lake City, Florida, we are going to be airing our globally heard commercials, and please use this time wisely.

Please write down the information provided by our global advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them, because the more you patronize our advertisers, the more likely they're going to remain our advertisers, which means the more likely we are going to remain on the air.

So please write down the information, patronize them, contact them.

Also write down questions for Phil Sessa, and our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages with more of our subject,

Reaching the Lost and Discipling the Saved in the Inner City with Phil Sessa of Soul Fishing Ministries and the

Stop and Think About It podcast, right after these messages from our sponsors. Did you know that all believers are priests?

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Gary Kimbrough, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi. God tells us in James 127 that pure and undefiled religion is to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction.

In the providence of God three years ago, I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka, Zambia in a township called

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Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443, or bbclaurel .com.

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I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, host of a visit to the pastor's study, and I am so thankful to be part of the advertising family right here on Iron Sharpens Iron.

If you live on Long Island or if you're visiting the metropolitan New York area, I invite you to join us for worship at The Haven on Sundays at 4 .30

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p .m. 33 Bayshore Road, Deer Park, New York. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine

Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the Historical Bible Society. The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.

The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers in Christian apologetics with evidence for the

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Iron, criticizing Iron. I think that's what it's called. This is Todd Friel of Wretched Radio and TV with Phil Johnson of Grace to You, inviting everybody to come to the

G3 conference, which has almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the country. And it is.

It's a great conference. I love it. And Chris Arnzen was there last year. He's been there, I think, every year.

It's great to see him there. You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place, which is a highlight.

Tons of stuff going on. Tons of great speakers. And no matter where you are in the building, you will hear Chris Arnzen's laugh.

And that's worth the price of admission alone. If you would like to join Phil, me, Chris, and a cavalcade of great preachers, so it should be a cavalcade of great preachers, and me, g3conference .com,

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I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

Chris up for just such a time. And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

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And remember, if you want the second book, you have to at least purchase $50 worth of merchandise. And so we hope that you remember also to mention that you heard about this from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And by the way, I want to give a plug to our friends at the IRBS Theological Seminary who are sponsors of this program, and the website is irbsseminary .org,

irbsseminary .org, and as I said, James Renahan, the author of True Love, is the president of that fine institution.

Before we return to Phil Sessa and also one of his co -hosts on the podcast that we have been discussing,

Stop and Think About It, we have just been joined on the air by Glenroy Clark, the

West Indian wordsmith, as they call him, at the Stop and Think About It podcast.

Before we return to our discussion with them, I want to let you know about a couple of important events that I will be attending.

The first, God willing, is the Foundations Conference in New York City. I will be packing up my bags and heading back to my old stomping grounds in Manhattan to the

Foundations Conference, which is a conference conducted by sermonaudio .com,

and they have a phenomenal lineup of speakers. Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, Paul Washer, Rev.

Jeff Thomas, Rev. Armin Tomasian, all of these men are extraordinary preachers.

Richard Colwell Jr. and Andrew Quigley are also on the lineup. I have not yet heard them preach, but if sermonaudio selected them,

I am sure they are also magnificent. This is being held Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th, in New York City.

What a perfect time to go to New York City during the Christmas season. I can't wait to go. I hope you register soon because they can only hold less than 200 people at this venue.

They may be filling up quickly. So go to thefoundationsconference .com, thefoundationsconference .com

and register. Then in January, God willing, I am going to be once again packing up my bags and heading out to Atlanta, Georgia, more specifically

College Park, Georgia, to the Georgia International Convention Center for the 2020

G3 Conference. And G3 Conference stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory, and they always have an extraordinary lineup of speakers at this conference, and 2020 is no exception.

By the way, the theme this January is Worship Matters, and the speakers include my friend

Kosti Hinn, who is the nephew of notorious Word of Faith charlatan and heretic

Benny Hinn. And you might be surprised to hear me say that since Kosti is his nephew, but Kosti would not be offended by that at all because a part of Kosti's mission in life is to expose his own uncle and the

Word of Faith charlatans for the dangerous and deadly and damning heretics that they are.

He is, Kosti is that is, is now a Reformed Baptist pastor and a cessationist in California, and he is on the roster at this lineup.

Darrell Bernard Harrison is another speaker on this lineup. It is such a refreshing breath of fresh air to hear a brother from the

Black community who is so committed to biblical truth that he is vocally opposed to the current disturbing movement of the social justice warriors.

And Darrell Bernard Harrison is on the lineup. He is now on the team at Grace TU Ministries, the ministry of John MacArthur.

David Miller, who is a phenomenal preacher. Derek Thomas, no stranger to Reformed Christians, a really extraordinary preacher as well.

My friend for many years, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. Jeremy Volo, another friend of mine who pastors in Laredo, Texas.

He's a former professional soccer player with the San Antonio Scorpions, and he is now pastoring a Reformed Baptist church there in Texas.

My friend Joel Beakey that I've known since the 1990s, president of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary.

John MacArthur is now on the roster as well. I have never had the opportunity to meet

Dr. MacArthur in person or hear him preach in person. I have interviewed him on the show in the old days from New York, but I have never yet heard him preach in public.

I am so looking forward to that. Phil Johnson is of course the executive director of Grace TU.

He is going to be there as well. Paul Washer is also on the roster at this

G3 conference. Stephen J. Lawson is also there, just as he was mentioned before in the other conference.

Stephen J. Nichols, president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by R .C. Sproul and Ligetier Ministries.

Todd Friel, whose voice you keep hearing promoting this conference on Iron Trip and Zion Radio. Tom Askell, who is the executive director of Founders Ministries, the

Calvinistic ministry at the Southern Baptist Convention. Votie Baucom, one of the most powerful preachers alive today and many more.

And so if you'd like to join me there, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com,

and I would strongly suggest if you have a ministry, a power church ministry, or a business that you want to promote to the body of Christ, since the

G3 conference draws over 5 ,000 people every year, and especially in January with John MacArthur there, they're probably going to have well over 6 ,000 people there.

I would strongly urge you to register for an exhibitor's booth before they run out of room. I will be manning one.

I hope you have one right near me. Go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com

to register to attend and also to register for an exhibitor's booth. And now I have that part of the program that I hate doing, but it is something that needs to be done if Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is to remain on the air.

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So please remember that. Also, if you want to advertise with us, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com,

and put advertising in the subject line. As long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe,

I will be eagerly and excitedly willing to launch an ad campaign for you as quickly as possible because we really do urgently need your advertising dollars.

That's also the email address to send in a question to our guests now. We have two guests now, plural,

Phil Sessa and also one of his co -hosts on the

Stop and Think About It podcast, Glenroy Clark. They are both waiting for your questions at chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and welcome back, Phil Sessa, and welcome for the first time,

Glenroy Clark. Thank you. Thank you very much. And by the way,

Glenroy, since you are a newcomer to the program, please tell us in an abbreviated fashion, which is our tradition here on this program, give us a summary of your salvation testimony.

Tell us something about the home in which you were raised, the religious atmosphere, if any, and how you came by God's sovereign grace to discover the gospel and to embrace it.

Well, as my title gives away,

I was born in Jamaica, which is a very religious country, although I wouldn't say necessarily they were truly believers, but we were raised on the

Old Testament. We were raised to be respectful and polite and to respect the

Christian faith, but I basically grew up in a home when I came to America where we really didn't know

God. We didn't really read the Bible, decide the psalm. Let me guess, you're from Kingston?

No, I'm from Montego Bay. Oh, okay. You sound almost exactly like a family from Kingston.

I'm sorry. Oh, okay. No, no. But it's a funny thing that most people who come here say they're from Kingston.

The country of six million, but nine million people are from Kingston. Okay. So I grew up basically trying to be a good person.

I'm a big self -help person. I read a lot of books, and I thought, hey, I'm a good person.

I just got to improve little things about myself, and fast forward till I was around 29.

In my early 20s, I started going to parties, being around some of the bad crowd, because I thought, hey,

I've been a pretty good person. Now I'm going to see what the other half is like. I just had a series of issues with that in terms of some situations where I threw parties, and I was going out a lot.

I had people saying to me, hey, you're a party guy. Why are you throwing your own party? I started to feel a little offended because I didn't think of myself as a party person or as a person who was wasting time.

But I had a situation where I threw a party, and one of the gentlemen, I got into it. It was money.

A lot of things involving money came up, and I just was despondent.

I was very upset about the situation because I thought the person was a friend, and I kind of locked myself in my house for a couple of days.

I was like, hey, I'm here. I'm alone. I'm very sad. Let me read the Bible. We're told to read the

Bible. I'm told the Bible has a lot of good information in there, and I read it, and as I'm reading the story of Genesis, and I'm just paging through,

I just started crying and just realizing just from reading the beauty of the story of the

Bible how much I am incapable of being a good person, of really being worthy to go to heaven.

I know I made that big jump there, but I'm trying to be succinct, but I kind of realized that everything I was doing before was pointless, and I kind of cried out to God, and I said,

God, I'm going to try to do it your way, and from that day on, I decided to read the Bible, and I wanted to find a

Bible -believing church, and that's kind of where I've been. As I've learned and studied, I've started learning about sin and how much of a sinner

I really am. It really began with this idea of I can't be as good as I think

I am. Then I realized I'm a sinner, and I spoke to different people and met different pastors, and I kind of learned that the only way to get to heaven, the only way to be righteous with God is that He Himself has to change my heart.

He Himself is the only one that can. Jesus is the only one I can actually pay for my sin. Praise God, and so how did you meet

Phil Cessa and not only become a part of Grace Baptist Church where he pastors, and now you are, as I said before, you are a deacon there at Grace Baptist Church of Woodhaven, New York.

How did you first come to meet Phil and this church, and how did you become a co -host on the podcast we have been discussing,

Stop and Think About It? So basically, one day I was at church, you know, obviously they're there all the time, and I see this man who's just fiery, you know, passionate, and Pastor Peter said, hey,

I just want to introduce you to Phil. I said, okay, how are you doing? We hit it off immediately. He was passionate, he was talking about going outside and evangelizing, he seemed excited to be at Grace, because his background,

I don't know if he told you, was that he was in the Assemblies of God, and he found

Reformed theology, and he was very excited, he had all this knowledge, and he just, you know, he was passionate.

And so when I met him, it was like a breath of fresh air for him, and a breath of fresh air for me in terms of meeting someone of like mind.

And he's, the way he sounds on the radio, the way he is in real life, he's always this passionate.

There's another gentleman that's a part of our podcast, his name is Steve Langella, and he came to our church, well, we've known him for a long time, he was a member of our sister church of our

North Shore Baptist, and he came in and he had this idea for a podcast, and he asked anyone who was interested, and Phil and I definitely were interested, along with a couple other people, and that's just how it started.

He was talking about, hey, we want to do a podcast about teaching Christians how to think biblically, how to look at the

Bible, how to apply it to our world, and we felt that there's a lot of podcasts that are dealing with a lot of different Christian issues, but it wasn't a lot of podcasts that were teaching people, how do you apply the

Scriptures, how do you read, and how do you live this out? And we thought, hey, we can fill a niche there, and it could be another ministry opportunity for us.

And how did you actually first discover the Grace Baptist Church? So, like I said, now, my story, like I said,

I skipped a lot. There were a lot of people around me who were telling me about Christ, such as there were Seven -Day Adventist people I knew, other different denominations that I wouldn't consider doctrinally correct, but they were telling me about God, so I had these influences on me.

So when I was saved without having someone directly evangelize me, I started going to their churches, and I knew something was off with the

Seven -Day Adventist. I knew something was off with some of these other churches. They're really big in Jamaica, aren't they? Churches. Seven -Day

Adventists are huge. Yes, especially the Seven -Day Adventist, correct, because it's a country where there's a lot of raucous lawlessness going on, and when you have that, you automatically are going to have churches that are going to be more legalistic, you know, because people are craving some structure.

And so those are the churches I was around, but I knew there was something wrong about it. So in the process of about a year and a half,

I just was visiting a church like every other week. I felt guilty because I thought, hey, maybe it's me.

Maybe I'm the one who's just not, you know, need to submit to these churches, and I'm reading the Bible wrong. But after a while,

I was searching, searching, searching, and I heard about Sermon Audio, and on Sermon Audio, I was hearing

Reformed teachings, and I was like, this is really interesting. This is what I've been looking for. I talked to the pastor of the church

I was attending for a while, and he basically said to me that Romans 929, 928, he didn't agree with that.

He felt like God would not force someone to be saved, and I was very perturbed by that answer, because he was, to me, a very godly pastor, very good, and I felt comfortable in that church.

So it immediately made me want to go search, and I looked online, I looked on Sermon Audio, and I found

Grace Baptist, and its website was so clear about the gospel. I listened to sermons of Pastor Peter, and it was so clear that I just immediately started going, and I think after about two visits,

I was like, I'm home. Praise God. And of course, historically, Reformed Christians don't teach that God forces us against our will to be saved.

He makes us willing. I was like, what is going on? He makes us willing. He gives us a new heart, and therefore, he makes us willing.

Amen. So now let me know. We'll start with you, Brother Gilroy, since we already heard a lot from Phil Sessa.

Let's hear about some of the subjects that you handle, other than, of course, what you just mentioned.

You were talking about discipling, and so forth. Tell us some more about some of the major issues you address on Stop and Think About It.

Well, we started off the podcast very, you know, ambitiously trying to... One of our things is that a lot of the heresies of today can be traced back to the very early beginnings of the

Church, and so for the beginning, we started dealing with some of the heresies of the past that have morphed to today, just teaching believers that, hey, this is not new.

This has been dealt with by councils. You know, this is a variation of, for example, the sinner's prayer, or just saying a prayer and walking the aisle.

We kind of went through how, when it began, and all the different controversies that led up to it. So it's kind of been a...

We've done that. We've also attempted to kind of, for the past couple of podcasts, dealing with specific scriptures that are misused.

And so it's kind of eclectic. We're trying to touch on different topics, but we just basically want to teach people how to think, rather than saying, okay, this is the only way to do it.

This is how you think about scripture. This is how you should approach it. I think a lot of people know how to read, and some people know how to do devotional, but not a lot of people have been taught how to study.

Great. By the way, we have a question from one of your co -hosts,

Steve Langella, who you guys call the Brooklyn Berean.

By the way, his photograph looks almost identically to Phil. Identical, I should say, to Phil.

I don't know if that's true in person, but the photograph certainly looks the same.

Steve asks, Glenn, what was the first question you asked Peter Nicotra?

I guess that has some significance as far as a testimony or story. Oh yeah, it's a little bit of a joke. So I had, as I was going to different churches, there was one question that seemed to me like, like to me personally as a young believer, the make -or -break question, which was, what is your position on tithing?

And our recent podcast dealt with that as well. That's going to come up soon, I think in a couple of months, it's going to be published.

And I saw the young believer that the position a pastor took on tithing, especially a

Reformed pastor, kind of really told me where they sat. If they overemphasized tithing and said it was for today and that we have to give 10%,

I felt like, you know, hey, this money is really a big issue for them. If they were honest and said, hey,

I think it's a good principle. I believe that 10 % is a minimum, actually, is a good principle for you to do, but you give whatever you feel is necessary.

And sometimes you can give them more than 10%. I kind of felt that that pastor was someone I should go listen to about other issues.

And you cannot believe how many pastors failed that test. By the way, do you know what...

Pastor Peter, I'm sorry, Peter answered it perfectly. By the way,

I'm sure you're familiar with Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. Yes, yes,

I am. You know what the first words he ever said to me were? I called him.

I don't know. I called him in 1995 and asked him to participate in a live public debate between himself and Jerry Matitox, a former

Presbyterian who converted to Roman Catholicism. And I said, I'd love for you to come out.

We'd like to set this up as soon as possible. We'd like to have you debate on the dogmas of Mary taught by the

Roman Catholic Church. And there was a bit of dead silence for about five to 10 seconds.

And then the very first words that Dr. James R. White ever said to me were, how did you get this phone number? That's a good question.

But we became the closest... That's a very good question. We became the closest of friends since then. And that was back in 1995, as I said.

But Phil Sessa, give us some more of the reasons why our listeners should tune in to the

Stop and Think About It podcast. I don't know if you use the term tune in when it's a podcast. But anyway, why should they listen to Stop and Think About It and watch it?

Yes. Is it a video show as well? Is it a video show as well or just audio? Right now it's audio.

We're hoping to get to video at some point. But yeah, right now it's only audio.

One of the things that we found is everyone that has a podcast has a target audience.

So who are they trying to reach? Well, we're not trying to reach the seminary students. We're not trying to reach those that have deep theological training.

We're trying to reach your average person that's sitting in a pew that maybe, perhaps, in an unhealthy church may have some good theology mixed in with some bad theology, or maybe hasn't really thought a whole lot about what they actually believe.

And so that's kind of our avatar, if you will, people sitting in these kinds of churches, as well as our own churches, to give them healthy things to ponder upon, meditate upon, questions to grapple with in their own lives.

And so many people, when they live in this world, in this culture, they might have their theology made up from a little bit what they heard at church on Sunday.

Maybe they watched some Fox News or whatever news channel they frequent, maybe some songs that they heard.

And so their theology is smashed with all of these things together, and their worldview is shaped in that way.

And sometimes many professing Christians don't really think about, how should

I think about things in this life, in this culture, in my own life, in the struggles that I have, through a

Biblical paradigm? And so we wanted to focus on that aspect of things.

How did the things that I face in everyday life, how does the Bible instruct me to think about and to handle and to deal with these things?

And we know that the Bible answers every single question that could possibly ever come up in our lives.

No, it's not going to tell you how to change your tire, but it's going to tell you the type of attitude you should have when you get the flat tire on the side of the road.

So we're finding that some people, for instance, we did one on complementarianism and egalitarianism, and so that episode was focused on the roles of men and women in the home and in the church.

Many people, this is a hot topic, right? Women preaching from the pulpits in our churches.

Does Scripture allow for that? If so, then where does that support it?

If not, then where does Scripture show us that that's forbidden, and why?

And so, for instance, one of the things that we didn't want to do with that episode is just focus on all the things that the

Bible points out that perhaps women shouldn't do. But the great plethora of things that women can do and have the freedom to do in the home and in the church, and how valuable ladies are in the home and in the church, because they have a vital role in the church.

And the church is, I mean, how can the church function without all these valuable ladies serving in the ministry?

So Jesus was surrounded by a lot of women, and they served faithfully with him, not per se as apostles or his chosen disciples, if you will, in that specific office.

Of course, they were disciples in the sense of learners, just to define the word, but not

Peter, James, and John. They weren't of that circle, per se, but they ministered to Christ, and Christ utilized them in ministry all the time.

So we want to put things out like this, so we've dealt with a variety of topics, like ancient heresies and modern clothes.

How did we get the Jehovah's Witnesses? How did we get Oneness Pentecostalism? Where did that stem from?

T .E. Jakes just didn't show up on the scene. Where did his theology stem from?

Because, like, thousands and thousands and millions of people are listening to these popular preachers. And sometimes when you mention that that preacher's theology is unbiblical, then people may get upset.

But then we have to be able to give a reason why that theology is abhorrent, why the theology is twisted.

And so we go into these kind of things and bring up scripture verses, and hopefully plucking strings in people's hearts, because I think that deep down a lot of people in churches, they really want to serve the

Lord. They really want to believe right. They really want to follow God's law,

God's commands, God's instructions, but sometimes they just don't know. We have a...

Okay, go ahead, I'm sorry. I wanted to add one thing really quick into that, and the idea is that when they call us, when they listen to us, we're not highbrow.

We're not using big words that are confusing. If we say a word that we know most people don't know, we're going to break it down for them.

And we want to be referred to people who are not Reformed, who may just, hey,

I wonder about this. I wonder what the Bible says about this. And they're not Reformed, and we want to be able to say, okay, give that to other

Christians who you're not sure what their theology is, so they can learn. Great. I'm going to read an audience, a listener question for you.

In fact, it was specifically intended for Glenroy, and what we'll do is we'll have you answer it when we return from our final break.

Our listener is Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, and he says, what does your

Jamaican guest think about the social justice warrior movement in the

United States? I know that very often the experience amongst the

Black community is different in America than it is in the West Indies. I was curious what your guest's take is on it, because of the fact that it has even infiltrated the most theologically

Reformed of churches and ministries. Okay, we'll have you answer that when we come back.

Another one of those non -controversial questions, but if anybody else would like to join us in the air, we're running out of time, so please send in your questions immediately to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and as always, give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Phil Sessa and Glenroy Clark, and more of our discussion after these messages from our sponsors.

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We're now back with our guests today from the Stop and Think About It podcast, and if you have a question, send it in immediately.

We're running out of time, but we have a question for Glenroy Clark that you most likely remember.

He wants to know what your opinion is on the social justice movement that is spreading rapidly, it seems, in the

United States. Okay, so that's a good question.

Actually, we're going to be doing a podcast on this with Mark Grimaldi in September. You know, he's my former pastor.

Oh, there you go. So he's going to definitely give us some nuance on it. Obviously my position is going to be that I'm against the social justice movement.

Now, like you said, I have a unique perspective where I was born in Jamaica. I've lived here most of my life, but I was born in Jamaica, and we have the same issues.

In Jamaica, it's 90 % black, and I'm very dark -skinned, and so there's a big racial issue between the light -skinned

Jamaicans and the dark -skinned Jamaicans. And so me thinking about it from a reasoned position tells me that our biggest issues are not racial, class, or gender, but it's a sin.

It's a sin that's in our hearts. And so I think the social justice movement is going from the wrong perspective.

It's not looking at sin and biblical justice, and it's trying to fix society that we know is broken because of sin, because of what happened in Genesis.

And so that's my perspective on it. I am a Christian, 1st, 2nd, and 10th. And when you start identifying as a male, you start identifying as a

Brooklyn—you know, we playfully give ourselves nicknames, but I'm not a New York or an American first. I'm not a black person first.

I'm not a Jamaican first. I'm a Christian first. And obviously there's going to be a lot more to talk about, but hopefully they'll check our podcast on that, where we'll go in more in -depth.

We have CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who wants to know,

I hear constantly from Christians that too much is made of doctrine and theology, that we have to really just lift up Jesus and not let this deeper thinking bog us down, which they view as nothing but an impediment to the joy and enthusiasm and energy of worshiping

Christ and sharing Him with others. What is your thought on this view of things? That's going to be for both of you.

Phil, let's start with you this time. So I think that the first—that would kind of raise the question, what

Jesus are you talking about? Because the Mormon Jesus, the Jehovah's Witness Jesus, what about the

Muslim Jesus? So if you don't have doctrine, if you don't have the right doctrine, if you don't have the right gospel, you don't have the right

Jesus. And we notice that the scribes and the Pharisees—well, many of the people—were astonished at Christ's doctrine.

So Jesus would be against that view that all we need is

Jesus and no doctrine. You must have doctrine because right teaching must come from Christ, and that comes from the

Scriptures. So we have to look in the Scriptures. Do we have a Jesus that really rose from the dead?

Well, then we have the doctrine of the resurrection. You can't toss that to the side. Doctrine is crucial, but I understand at the same time we could have dead orthodoxy, which

I guess would be a picture in Ezekiel 37, where you can have right doctrine, but your actions can be wrong.

Jonah had the right doctrine. He gave the right answer on the ship. I served the God of the sea and the dry land, but he was running from Him, and so he wasn't living out the doctrine he said he believed.

So they need to go together. So these would be the two theological words. We have orthodoxy, which is right doctrine, and orthopraxy, right living, and Jesus affirms us having good doctrine.

And Glenroy, quickly. Yes, yes. Now, there are two things that I would address.

The woman at the well, when Jesus spoke to her, said that, you know, the Jews had the right knowledge, and that her people had the

Spirit. They said, we're going to worship in spirit and truth. I think you cannot have one without the other.

Secondly, I would say they don't understand what doctrine is. Doctrine is showing you the beauty of God.

It's exploring and going deeper, and to make it seem like one is joy and one is tedious kind of shows you that they have the wrong perspective to begin with.

All righty, we are out of time, but I want to make sure our listeners have your websites. First of all, the

Stop and Think About It podcast can be found at stopandthinkpodcast .com, stopandthinkpodcast .com,

and Soul Fishing Ministries can be found at soulfishingministries .org, soulfishingministries .org.

I want to thank both of you for being my guests today. I want to thank everybody for listening, especially those who took the time to write, and I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater