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Bro. Otis Fisher
Which special gift is the most valuable one? Is Virge the only one going to answer?
All right. All right. Which special gift is the most valuable one?
Well, it's love.
We're going to study today about love. Thirteenth chapter of 1
Corinthians. Though I speak with tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity,
I am become a sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal, so that those gifts without charity have no right use.
Without love, the gift is of no use.
A very earnest amplifying of the matter, as he said, if there were any tongues of angels, and if I had them, and did not use them to the benefit of my neighbor, it would be nothing except a vain, pratting type of babble.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love,
I am nothing. By faith he means the gift of doing miracles, and not faith which justifies, which cannot be void of charity as the others may.
John, do you think it's possible to be saved and not have love?
Bill, do you? And though I bestow all of my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned and have not charity, it profits me nothing.
Now, Joy, what about this body to be burned? If we sacrifice ourselves to the point of burning our bodies, all in all, whatever we attempt to achieve, we cannot force it.
It's nothing but that which we love. It doesn't profit us in any way.
Clarence, can you direct your answer toward my body to be burned?
Well, I mean if you were to give your body for a sacrifice, or if there were a lot of others who were burned, the scourges might be wrong in saying that if the supreme sacrifice of the earth, if you give up your life for your cause, if that were given up, you would have a sense of not love for your neighbor, love for all of Christianity.
All right. Diane, do you have anything to add to that? Purge? What does it mean?
I think for those of Clarence, I agree with Clarence there. I mean, that's the ultimate sacrifice would be your body, your own earth.
God did it all. I mean, he gave everything in the sake of love. He gave his body and everything.
And, I mean, I may be going in the wrong track there, but I mean, the body is nothing if you don't have love. That's true.
But he's talking of a specific thing here. We're not...
Maybe it's because if we witness one another and we are quick to say, well, that's our cause, we're doing it because of love, of Christ, of Christianity.
Well, that's all true. What you have all said is true. But he's talking specifically about if you become a slave, slave and you're burned with the iron of recognition, branded.
Brother, I was going to ask, where do you get that? I mean, where do you find that? It's more than being branded, is it?
Well, knowing the history of the world at that time. If I should, in order to redeem another willingly, give up myself to slavery and receive the mark of my owner by having the flesh stamped with a hard iron and have not love, as before specified, it proves nothing.
Charity suffereth long and is kind. Charity envieth not, vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up.
Charity has a long mind to the end which neither trials nor adversaries, persecutions nor provocations can reach.
It suffers all of the weakness, ignorance, errors, infirmities of the children of God and all the malice and wickedness of the children of this world and all of this not merely for a time but long without end.
I'm afraid mine ends. Does not behave itself unseemingly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, never acts out of its place or character.
Love never acts out of its place or its character. Observed due decorum and good manners, is never rude, bearish or brutish.
That's not love. And is ever willing to become all things to all men that it may please them for their own good and edification.
Six, rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth.
Rejoices in the truth, that is, in men's loving truth, doing justly, living righteously according to the rule of truth, the gospel.
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
What does it mean, beareth all things? John? It's there no matter what all trial and tribulations that we go through.
All right. What does it mean, believeth all, Bill? Believeth all things.
All right. Hopeth all things, Joy. All right.
All right.
Greg, endureth all things. All things.
But the true import must be found either in cover or contents. Love conceals everything that should be concealed.
Betrays no secret, retains the grace given, and goes on to continual increase.
How do you increase love? Can you increase love? Greg? All right, so you increase it by exercising it.
All right. Charity never faileth, but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail.
What happened when they failed, the old time prophet? Clarence?
Well, Elder Dawson, I think it's half of that.
I think it's half of that. See, in the total truth, what's going on is that some of the prophecies, partially, it's all part of it, you can change it.
But in the total of the prophecies, they show the weakness of man. It's not a...
It's nothing. All right. What would happen to the prophet?
Well, he'd end up going. All right. I think you said it,
Yes. Yes.
Do you think you can prophesy today?
No, I don't. And that would be another aspect of it.
But what I was looking at there, and I think it all went in the wrong place, what it would be. It says prophecy.
The bell. Yes, there would be a time when that prophecy has been completed and it has come to an end.
In the sense that the prophecy has come to an end when the event that prophesied happened to go along with the prophecy.
And it has a period of time that it lasts. All right.
And love, charity, has no end time to it. All right. There's no time over when it's completed.
All right. That's good. It doesn't.
Your definition of prophecy is that prophecy means to preach or teach. And that's one thing.
Prophecy means to foretell the future. That's another. Is prophecy here to talk about foretelling the future or is it to talk about preaching the future?
But does it not also infer that a little bell means that prophecies are still ongoing today?
Or at that time? All right. Well, a little bell, it transfers the...
the wow. That's what it means. Other than the preacher today is a prophet and that he can tell the future which is written down and any of us can read.
Like Revelation. Yes. Revelation. Yes. But that prophecy is...
is preaching and teaching of the Word. That's right. And whereas if you connect that with tongues they will see he doesn't stop whereas prophecies are writing the
Word and you read and teach. That's right. Isn't that what they mean in 1
Corinthians? Where it says charity never fails but whether there be no...
be prophecies, they shall fail. Whether there be tongues, they shall cease.
Whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. Yes. All of it's comparing itself to charity.
But I was wanting to know more about the tongues and prophecies.
We can see where they've quit. There be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Whether the Word implies predicted future events or teaching the truths of religion to men, all such shall soon be rendered useless.
There is coming a day when everything here will be gone. The miraculous gifts of different languages that soon shall cease as being unnecessary.
Knowledge shall vanish away. All human arts and sciences being utterly useless in the eternal world though highly extolled and useful here.
For we know in part and we prophesy in part. When you have a...
When you've learned all you can from your ministers, suppose we all knew everything that David knows.
Remember you have much to learn from God. And for this you should diligently wait on him by the reading of his word and by incessant prayer.
When we get to the point that we know everything that is capable of knowing, we still can learn of God, can we not?
And he will reveal it to you as it becomes necessary. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away with.
Now before I go into the discussion of this verse, let me get some thoughts from you,
Greg. When that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.
What is it? When we're talking about the living and the dying, it's finally available to us.
We don't need prophets to teach us. All right, that's a good point. Fred?
I wish I'd said what he did. Verge? I wish
I'd said what he did too. Copycats. Christ would be, though, his brother, not what
Greg was saying there. When Christ is come, he's the perfect. And there's going to be no need for anything else, is it not?
I mean... Well, that's true. There will be the perfect. I don't know whether we were talking about that or not.
When Christ is come, there's going to be no need for anything else. The problem is everything else. All right.
Clarence? But when we say the perfect has come, does that not mean that when we arrive in heaven with our
Savior, because earlier we studied that prophecies will return, and if there's going to be prophecies in the future, before the end of time, does that mean a real birth, or does that mean actually tribulation, after Christ's second return, and we go to heaven and live with him in heaven when all knowledge is there, and we're more in the perfect state, and we're there, believe it or not, at that time, none of this is needed.
Because we still need the scripture. We still will have some prophets at the end of time.
So how do we arrive at that stage? Probably on the Bible. All right. Bill, let me hear your words.
I think that Clarence and Greg are both right. Well, I used to believe it meant the
Bible only. But I've changed my mind. True, he now begins to know.
We have just begun to know. He knows in part, but verily what he here knows is little of what he should know, little of that he might know, little that others know, little that he desires to know, and little that he should know, shall know, when he comes to heaven.
Then all imperfections shall be done away when that which is perfect is come.
Excuse me. In the millennial period, isn't it true that throughout that thousand year period that there will be teaching, that there will be children, that there will be learning, that there will be learning at that time from the perfect man?
That's right. So that will be the promise of Clarence. All right.
David? There are many good scholars who have said that it means the Word of God. But I would agree that that has always been my favorite interpretation.
Like you said, yours. The more I study it, the less
I can hold to it. I would agree with commentary by David Patterson, who ran
Dr. Griswold's Autonomic Computers of Health. He's written commentary on this past.
He said that he would agree with Clarence that it doesn't mean the second covenant. It does not mean the last year.
It does not mean even the millennial period. And beyond all that, in what
David Patterson called the eternal state, when we get to heaven. Because that will be the only time we still have prophets on these things.
And what's interesting about it, though, we can have a dual meaning, like Bill said, because if folks want to look at this again, but over in Ephesians chapter 2, in verse 20, he's talking about the church.
And it says, and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and the prophets, Jesus Christ being the chief foreman.
So, involve the building, fitly framed together, and just put a picture of the church in the building.
So the apostles and the prophets, those who foretell the future, and so forth, were the foundation that we're built upon.
So if you don't build the foundation and then frame the building, and then put a roof on it, and then put another foundation on top of the roof, so that, in that sense, the word virtue, over in 1
Corinthians 13, the study means maturity, completion. So in that sense, that word can carry many meanings, because what it means is, and I think somebody else already said this, that when the use of the thing is over, then it ceases.
So once the foundation of the church was laid, the apostles all went to heaven. They were healed.
They went to heaven, and so did the prophets, those who gave us the New Testament.
And so, in that sense, the apostles all had gifts, fine gifts, signs and wonders, which all indicated the
Word, even though in 1 Corinthians 15, I think David Paul was talking about it as something that would, in the future, cease, because it's still, obviously
Paul is still there, he's writing this letter, but if there were to come a day when they would be healed, he's gone, and God's purposes would have been met, since we have the
New Testament, and it is complete. So there, David makes a great answer, and in that sense, some of it can relate to the finishing of the
Word of God, and the authenticating of it. Some of these gifts will cease, because they're no longer needed.
But I think the overall meaning of it, summed it up, as you read the next verses, after that one, as you come into the next, it sure makes it sound like that apparently the answer is the ultimate.
Some days when the whole thing, some days when we get out there in the eternal presence of God, we have no need of any of this.
Except for love, except for, you know, in 1 Corinthians 13, why am I giving answers?
It's just, for now we see an era of inward, but then face to face, I think that's face to face with God.
Yes, yes. That verse number 11, Brother Otis, I think says it best, because it's what everybody has said, but it says, when
I was a child, I spake as a child. I understood as a child. I thought as a child.
But when I became a man, in other words, when I became mature, I put away a new childish stance, because it didn't need them.
You had the, you had the word of God, God. Let's take that verse, a child, a man.
As a conception and speech of the lesbian infant differ from those of an educated and full grown man, so do our highest attainments in this life differ from what they will be in the life to come.
We haven't experienced any of that. Those of us that are yet alive, we think we know it all, but we know it all up to here.
For now we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face, now
I know in part, but then shall I know even also as I am known. Our knowledge of God and divine truth is indirect and obscure.
The original leads you to think we see through a mirror darkly. We see in the mirror the reflected vision of what is to come.
Like that of a man who looks not directly on the object itself, but only on dim images of it, such as were reflected from the imperfect mirrors.
Even as also I am known, more literally, even as also
I have been known, that is, known by God, in the present state, for our knowledge of him, though real and saving, is yet so faint and imperfect that it may be better said that we are known of God than that we know him.
We don't know him completely. The apostle plainly has in mind not the extent of our knowledge in the heavenly state, but rather its manner as direct and clear.
So, we see through a glass, or we see reflected in that glass the future.
And I think we'd all have to agree with that, but we see it distorted as though, even though we think we see it real.
We do not see it real. Trying to think of an illustration.
Well, your face, you've never seen your face. You've only seen reflections of it.
And you think it's pretty good. But that's just a reflection. That's right.
That's right. That's right.
That's right. And no man here has ever seen the real thing. I must correct
David on one thing. He said all of the apostles were killed. They were not. John died a normal death, but he is the only one.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three, but the greatest of these is charity.
The conclusion. As if the apostle had said, such therefore will be our condition then.
But now we have three things and they remain sure if we are
Christ, without which truly religion cannot exist.
That is, faith, hope, and charity. And among these, charity is the cheapest because it ceases not in the life to come as the rest do, but is perfected, perfected, and accomplished.
For seeing that faith and hope tend to things which are promised and are yet to come, when we have presently gotten them, to what purpose would we have faith and hope?
But yet there is length. We have truly and perfectly love, perfected love, both
God and one another. Now love will go on. Love is the only thing.
Our hope will be satisfied. Faith we won't need. So in the future, in the other life, we will need love.
And it is love that gets us there. The love. I'm not talking about love a man has for a woman, or your husband and your wife.
I'm talking about the perfect love. That which comes down from God. Only.
Alright, anything anybody would like to discuss now? The most important gift is what?
Love. Yes. We're always struggling with that.
And I'm confident with the first example where we're a child, we're
God's child, and he is growing us to that perfection in love.
That's what holy Christianity is about. Alright. Clarence?
I want to go back to verse 5 of verse 6 which says,
He does not behave rudely, does not seek, does not provoke, and so he does not rejoice.
I guess I was thinking in all the thought process that this giving of the love is two parts.
One who is offering the love, and one who is accepting of the love, or is the object of the love.
And it seems that if things we do, if they provoke rudeness or cause insensitiveness, or is justified on its own in any point or part, or, in this sense, is not provoked, or if it provokes receiving the party, then it can't be loved, and then it makes no evil.
If it causes a loss of joy, or rejoices in the truth, if there's a loss of rejoicing in the truth, then is it love on both parts?
Or is it love on the giving part, and not on the receiving part? Well, it's got to be love on the giver.
I cannot answer for the other side. I can give everything in love, honestly and truly, but I cannot answer how
John will receive it. But I am supposed to tailor my answer to where he will receive it, correctly or as near -correct as possible.
Yet I must give of love. If he has love for me, if he has love for you, as being a child of Christ Jesus, will he receive it correctly?
Or is he a Christian? No, I'm saying if he has love for me, as Christ has love for the
Church, will he receive it properly? Yes. What you analyzed and what you saw really was in love, or it was in being puffed up, or in envy or pride, or afraid of yourself.
I just wrestle that in my mind. I think there must be a following.
If the ultimate goal is to please our Lord, then in time, people will see where the love lies.
If the ultimate goal is to please ourselves or a physician or a title or a law, instead of the law of love, which is far greater, then
I believe that in time, that the real love of Christ Jesus will prevail.
If they don't, just like he said, if you hate your brother, the love of God will not be there. So when we lived in Detroit and we were forming a hatred toward blacks, we had to earnestly pray that God would give us a love for a black man in spite of the things they were doing so that the love of God would still be there.
I think that that's something that only God can give to the people of Detroit.
I'm trying to connect charity with this love.
It's not the love, but love comes from the heart. And it's embedded forever.
It creates action because of where it is and what it does.
Charity is normally something you do for someone out of the feeling that you get from your heart so that in the long run, the charity will be something that's beneficial to you because it brings home that love.
I think I'm clear. Well, in the scripture, the words charity and love are the same.
And in our youth today, we use love versus charity, which is as you described.
Yes? As we're studying Revelation, I think it's the love that God speaks about in the church, that they do all these things right but they lack the first love.
And it goes back to that first love is me loving the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my mind, with all my strength.
In the process of that desire to love Him in that area, it is only an outpour of what we will do with the situation next month.
That's right. So it's not the person that you're reflecting on, it's the love with all your mind, with all your strength, all your soul.
That stuff is to what you find in the Bible. Yes? I am the
Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my mind.
Yes, that's true. And that in doing so, I do this. Now let's understand that love is not always doing what the other person wants.
It may be putting them in jail. I don't know. But seeking the very best for others, so that is
Christian love. It may mean that I will have to be very stern with Virg.
But that's Christian love. If it's done from love, it will succeed.
It's got to. Brother Oakley, we strayed off the line a little bit but now
I'm curious, I guess. In Revelation, it talks about the church as having lost its first love.
Am I to understand that it's a first in terms of an order of importance kind of love, rather than a kind of love that you had at the beginning?
Because I also thought that would be the love that you had at the beginning of your salvation period.
But I can see that the great love, a higher real love, a love that you have for God.
That they have love, they have lost their love for God. And that's something wrong.
It's wrong. Well, first of all, we have to define what is meant by your first love.
That's got to be the love of Christ. And it's ultimate actions and everything.
All of the others come after. So then, he would be talking there about in a higher order of importance, rather than the kind of love, the kind of emotional experience you had when you were first saved.
That's right. It's hard to say.
That's right. The love you had, the church of Ephesus, the first love that you have has to be that of God, of Jesus Christ.
That's got to be first. Then all of the other will fall into place. You cannot start just with your love that you have because he saved me or that I have for Fred.
It has to be higher than that. Well, let's stand and Greg, will you dismiss us, please?
As best that we can... That's right.