June 10, 2022 Show with Matt Trewhella on “Roe v Wade, the Supreme Court & the Constitution: Misconceptions, Myths, & Lies That Unnecessarily Paralyze Advocates for the Unborn”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is

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Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, with a very sore throat, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 10th day of June 2022.

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I had such a blast visiting St. John's Reformed Church in Freidensburg, Pennsylvania, for a conference recently, a conference featuring

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Matt Trujillo on the doctrine of the lesser magistrates, a proper resistance to tyranny and a repudiation of unlimited obedience to civil government.

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And it was not only great to see Matt in person for the first time and also to meet the pastor of that church where that conference was being held, who

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I've also had on the program, Matt Kennitzer, senior pastor of St. John's Reformed Church of Freidensburg, Pennsylvania.

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It was great to see them and also quite a number of folks who approached me to let me know how much they love

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Well, I was so blessed and informed and fascinated by the discussion by Matt Trujillo that I wanted to have him back on the program today to discuss

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Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court, and the Constitution, misconceptions, myths, and lies that unnecessarily paralyze advocates for the unborn.

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And my guest today to discuss that, Matt Trujillo, is pastor of Mercy Seat Christian Church in the

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Milwaukee, Wisconsin area. He's founder of the pro -life organization Missionaries to the

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Preborn. He's the author of the aforementioned The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates, and he is a frequent lecturer on righteous resistance and the lesser magistrate doctrine.

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And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Matt Trujillo. Yeah, it's excellent to be here with you,

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Chris. Thank you for the opportunity. God bless you. Oh, it's my pleasure. And for those of our audience who did not hear your previous interview on this program, tell us about Mercy Seat Christian Church.

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Yeah, Mercy Seat Christian Church. I've been pastoring there for 34 years now.

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It's a congregation of about 300 people. The Lord has used the congregation mightily in the lives of many people, and also in the public square to point men to Christ, to give them the understanding of the importance of his word, his law, his gospel.

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And I've been blessed to be the pastor there this long. We have so many older people. We have so many very young people, large families, smaller families.

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It's a great congregation that does a lot of ministry in so many different ways.

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Well, if anybody wants more information about Mercy Seat in the

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Milwaukee, Wisconsin area, go to mercyseat .net, mercyseat .net.

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And why don't you also give a summary, since this seems to be the very thing that most people, especially more recently, have come to discover you and your ministry.

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Give us a summary explanation of your book, The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates, A Proper Resistance to Tyranny and a

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Repudiation of Unlimited Obedience to Civil Government. And by the way, folks, if you are free to listen to the podcast or the archived recording of our previous interview with Matt Trujillo on this subject, just go to ironsharpensionradio .com,

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and where it says past shows podcast, or podcast past shows.

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I sometimes forget the order in which that's written. If you type in the search engine

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Trujillo, T -R -E -W -H -E -L -L -A, you will find that interview on this book.

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But if you could, Matt, give us a summary explanation of The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates. Sure. The doctrine is simply that when the higher ranking civil authority makes unjust or immoral law, policy, or court opinion, the

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God -given right and duty of the lesser civil authorities is interposition.

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They are to interpose. They are not to obey. And if necessary, they are to actively resist the superior civil authority.

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So a quote that I use that kind of sums it up and helps us think it in people's minds is from Emperor Trajan.

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He was giving a sword to one of his subordinates. He said, use this sword against my enemies if I give righteous commands, but if I give unrighteous commands, use it against me.

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And that's the doctrine in a nutshell. John Knox wrote the foremost treatise on the doctrine in his 1558 appellation to the nobles of Scotland.

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The nobles of Scotland were the lesser magistrates of their day. Knox cites over 70 passages of scripture in that treatise on the doctrine.

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And this doctrine, this Christian thought, is needed and necessary in our day.

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And it's really taking the political world by storm right now as people are realizing, yeah, when evil is being promulgated by civil magistrates, it's the duty of the lesser authorities to interpose in order to stop the evil.

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And understand, Chris, their interposition is massively important on two counts. One is when you look at Ezekiel 22, which talks about how family government was a mess, church government was a mess, civil government was a mess.

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And God says, I look for someone to build a wall and stand in the gap. And he said, but I could not find one.

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And therefore he says, I'm bringing my judgment upon the land. So the interposition of the lesser authorities when there's evil in the land could actually abate the just judgment of God.

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That's an important point. Secondly, the importance their interposition plays in order to mitigate evil within society is huge because the superior tyrant authorities always count on the blithe compliance of the lesser authorities in order to get their evil down in the fabric of society.

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And when they no longer have that blithe compliance from them, that's when they know a serious problem on their hands.

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So it's a goodness for the people to join with their magistrates because they already possess lawful authority.

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So the people have a duty to prod their magistrates to interpose when evil is being done.

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And they also have the duty to assure their lesser authorities that if they do their duty in the sight of Christ and interpose, that they'll stand with them four square, both with their person, with their property, with their prayers, both publicly and privately.

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So that's the doctrine in a short thumbnail sketch. And how do our listeners get a hold of this book?

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Yeah, you can go to our website. We have a website, defytyrants .com. If you order there, we send you a few extra items for nothing along with the book.

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Or, of course, you can go to Amazon if you prefer that and get it there. The book has sold nearly 100 ,000 copies now.

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It's really incredible how the Lord has used this book, both in the hearts and minds of Christian men and even those who don't truly know

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Christ but see the goodness of the teaching from God's Word for society regarding these matters of civil government.

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And right now, Chris, over the last several months, I've just seen a massive growing amongst military personnel getting interested in this doctrine.

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General Mike Flynn has been pushing the book for about 10 months now, telling everybody everywhere he goes to read it.

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I just talked to a retiring lieutenant colonel from the Air Force last week named

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Pete Chambers. He was being—they were attempting to force him out of the military, get him to retire early because he was standing against these vaccine mandates for military personnel.

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He refused to do it. He put up with all their brutality against him, and he finally resigned on his terms at 30 years last weekend.

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He has been, just in the last three months, telling everyone about the doctrine and encouraging everyone to read the book, which if you know anything about the history of the military, they have a long history, the military does, of intervening, interposing when the civil government becomes absolutely lawless.

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And so I'm encouraged by the fact that military personnel are learning about this doctrine and talking about it because I believe that our civil government has been trying to destroy our military for a long time now.

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And the don't ask, don't tell thing, you know, back with Obama, totally meant to—it's something a foreign enemy would do, to weaken the military morally.

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And now this whole matter with the forced vaccinations, they want to get the best of men out of the military while it seems like they're building their own little private army, which

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I believe they hope one day to use to oppress the people in their evil endeavors. So it's good to see good men involved in the military who understand the importance of this doctrine and are teaching other good men the importance of interposition.

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Great. Well, before we go to our discussion, I also want to make sure that you give a description of a very important ministry that is under the umbrella of Mercy Seat Christian Church, Missionaries to the

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Pre -Born. Tell us about that. Yeah, Missionaries to the Pre -Born began in 1990, and it's a mission to the pre -born.

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I was a missions major, Chris, at Bible College. And I had planned on going with Woodcliffe Bible Translators, the people group

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I ended up wanting to go to. I would have had to put my children in a school separated from us 10 months out of the year.

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Me and my wife did not agree with that at all. So we have our plans, God has his.

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In the end, I end up, of all places on the planet, Wisconsin. Like, nobody plans to go to Wisconsin.

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So it's like you end up in Wisconsin. And this is where the Lord brought us, is Wisconsin. And so when

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I first began to realize what the horror of abortion is and that we needed to do something about it,

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I picked up a book off the shelf that I had called Missions USA, which was by a guy named

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Earl Parvin, and he taught at Moody down in Chicago just south of us. And in there he cites over 400

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Christian missions operating in America, and not one of them had targeted the pre -born child as their people group.

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And that astounded me, because Christianity has always affirmed the humanity of the pre -born child, always affirmed that it's murder, you kill them.

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And yet, with this great slaughter, we don't have one Christian mission in America, which has made their pre -born neighbor the people group they're targeting.

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And so we formed Missionaries of the Pre -Born, and there were 17 missionaries that began after I had traveled around talking to people about the vision of the mission, which was to interpose at the abortion clinic doors in order to defend the pre -born from being killed.

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So this had a huge impact upon the murder industry in our state.

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We felt led of God to actually target the highest volume killing center in the state, which was called

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Thread and Roses on the north side of Milwaukee. And one year after we began our missionary efforts, they were out of business, and we were all still alive.

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Praise God. Yeah, amen. And we've seen them do such a great work. Since we began, there were eight abortion clinics in our city.

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Only two remain. And abortion, get this, has dropped by 69%.

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Hallelujah. Yeah. During that same time, the national average for the drop was about 17%.

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So we saw God just do a great work just because of being faithful to Him and showing love to our neighbor.

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So that's what Missionaries of the Pre -Born is. It still exists today. We do ministry at the death camps themselves and offer help to the moms to declare the truth to God's word, reprove the abortionists.

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And at the same time, we go to universities, high schools, busy intersections.

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We employ large photographs of pre -born babies developing the womb, those murdered by abortion. We have literature which exposes the horror of abortion, points out the violation of God's law, and points men to Jesus Christ.

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And we've seen God use that in such a profound and great way in many people's lives.

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So that's what Missionaries of the Pre -Born is. And the website for that excellent ministry is missionariestothepreborn .com,

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missionariestothepreborn .com. And we have to insert in here a description of a very important document that you have gone through the time and expense to make available in English.

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This was a fascinating document that you were explaining at the recent conference

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I attended at St. John's Reformed Church in Freidensburg, Pennsylvania.

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This is a document, and I'll spell it for our listeners, because it's not something that is very commonly heard about, although it should be, and I hope that this reprinting of this book will make this a lot more well -known.

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The Magdeburg Confession, and that's spelled M as in Michael, A -G as in George, D as in David, E -B -U -R -G.

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And that is the Magdeburg Confession. Tell us about this remarkable document. Sure.

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By the way, I just wanted to say you had mentioned Matt Kennitzer earlier, who's the pastor there at St.

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John's. Yes. I was there for his sermon this past Sunday, June 5th.

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He's been preaching through the Gospel of John, and the sermon he did was excellent, and I would encourage people to take the time to read it.

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I know they're at sermonaudio .com. If they put in his name, Matt Kennitzer, they can find it, or if they put in St.

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John's Reformed Church, they should be able to find it. He did a phenomenal job at defining what love is and also taking to task the bogus form of love that this culture has created, the redefinement of what love is, and which the

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Church has overwhelmingly embraced and aided and abetted this false definition of love.

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Once you divorce the ethic of love from God's law and from His Word, you can actually use the ethic of love to justify anything, including two men or two women marrying.

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I've got to get Pastor Kennitzer on the show to discuss that very topic. Yeah. It is.

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It's tremendous. But yeah, getting to the Magdeburg Confession.

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The Magdeburg Confession was written in 1550 A .D. In 1546, when

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Luther died, Charles V decided to make his... He was their Holy Roman Emperor.

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He decided to make his move then to crush the Reformation.

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And God in His providence had kept him from doing so before then because numerous times he had to go fight battles against the

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Muslims, and he also had trouble with another European foreign nation, also that he had to fight a battle.

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So he was never able in order to crush the Reformation in its infancy.

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So now it's 1546. Luther's died. He's going to take the opportunity to attempt to do that, and he issued what was known as the

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Augsburg Interim. And the Augsburg Interim was a document from the emperor which brought all of the

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Protestant lands back under Roman Catholic rule, faith, and practice.

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And there were those who resisted in the Protestant lands. Some were even killed. Others fled the area.

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But most overwhelmingly so went along with it. Even Peter Melanchthon, who was

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Luther's heir apparent, went along with the interim. But there was this one city that didn't.

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It was called Magdeburg, Germany. They were the lone city to stand in interposition against Charles V and his

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Augsburg Interim. Now the lead pastor in that city was a man named

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Nicholas von Amsdorff. And Nicholas von Amsdorff, Martin Luther, Peter Melanchthon were all like the best of friends.

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Nicholas von Amsdorff was with Luther at Wittenberg. Nicholas von Amsdorff went with Martin Luther to Wittenberg, I mean to Worms in 1521 when

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Luther had to make a defense of his teachings. He was with Luther when

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Frederick the Wise feigned his kidnapping and hid Luther in the

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Fort Berg Castle in Eisenach, Germany. And so Luther thought so highly of Nicholas von

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Amsdorff, by the way, that in 1524 Magdeburg became the first city to embrace the

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Reformation. Luther said, we took the city without firing a shot, just by being faithful to the word and gospel.

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And so these magistrates were sitting under the teaching of Nicholas von

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Amsdorff for 20 plus years, these magistrates in Magdeburg. So when

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Charles V made his move in order to re -Romanize all the products of land, they knew exactly what their duty was.

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And that was interposition, the interposition of the magistrates. And so they stood in defiance of the

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Augsburg Interim. And the churchmen there, there were nine churches, all of them, all of the ministers signed the

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Magdeburg Confession, the first one to sign it was Nicholas von Amsdorff. The churchmen put together what we now refer to as the

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Magdeburg Confession, where they showed from scripture and history that their magistrates were right to defy the emperor.

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They wanted all the world to know that. And so they wrote the Confession for that purpose.

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And the Confession had never been translated into English, Chris. So as I was preparing my work on the

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Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrate, I kept reading scholars, historians who would say that the

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Magdeburg Confession was the first time that the Lesser Magistrate Doctrine was formalized by churchmen, by Christian men.

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Well, I knew it was written in Latin. All important theological works were then. I knew it was translated into the

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German and sent out throughout the Holy Roman Empire. Well, I don't read Latin and I don't read

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German, so I spent literally eight months talking to librarians, historians, scholars across America and Europe trying to track down English translation.

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Had several along the way say, you know, I don't believe it's ever been translated into English.

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And finally a guy named Christian Hensel who works with Concordia University and his expertise is rare works, he told me, he contacted me, and he said,

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Matt, I heard you're looking for the Magdeburg Confession and there has to be an English translation.

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I can't believe that there wouldn't be. Well, he called me back a month later and he's like, no, I can't believe it.

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There never has been one. And so we secured a 1550 original in Latin from the

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Bavarian State Library in Munich, Germany. Once we secured the document, I hired a guy with a

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PhD, Christian brother. He has a PhD in Latin and Greek from Cornell University.

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Impeccable credentials. His name is Matthew Colvin. He called me up two weeks into the translation process and he says, how is it possible that this document has never been translated into English?

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I'm like, how is it possible? So he was loving it. He just took it as a higher gun.

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He's like, this is a massively important document to Western civilization and how we pillared our government institutions.

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I go, right, it is. And so we put together,

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I had George Grant write an introduction to the Magdeburg Confession. Great, because I love

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George Grant. Yeah, absolutely. And he was honored to do that, and I wrote a historical prelude and a historical postscript to it so that people would understand the context of the writing of this document because it's powerful historically, both previous to it being written and the impact that it had subsequent to being written.

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And then also we put in, me and Matthew Colvin put in many footnotes explaining certain things because if you don't know what they were referring to in the

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Confession, you don't get the punch. And so we explained these different things and different terms that they used.

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And now this work has sold about 14 ,000 copies, and people are able for the first time to read in English the

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Magdeburg Confession, and it's been selling not only here but in Europe and in South America most prevalently.

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So it's encouraging to be a part of a work like that and see that the Christian writings of good brothers from years earlier can impact people in our day for good because human nature doesn't change.

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And so you're always going to have tyrants. And the Reformers thought well about these things and wrote extensively about the limit, function, roles, duties, and civil authority, and the matter of when tyranny or tyrants raise their ugly head, what is the proper biblical response to that.

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So these were actually Lutheran churchmen, they were known as evangelicals at the time, who wrote the

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Magdeburg Confession. It was picked up by the Reformers like John Knox, first and foremost, who furthered the doctrine.

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And then his protege from England, Christopher Goodman, fantastic work on the doctrine.

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Mornay wrote, of course, about it. Theodore Beza, Calvin's heir apparent, on the right of magistrates, he wrote about the doctrine of the lesser magistrates.

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In fact, when he first published on the right of magistrates, he had to do so anonymously because of the political situation at the time.

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And so when it was first published, he actually attributed the authors as ministers of Magdeburg, Germany.

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So they were all grateful for this document called the Magdeburg Confession, which was the basis of understanding the doctrine, which they all built upon and furthered and strengthened.

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Just important stuff. And you can follow it up all the way about the Confession and the thinking and writing of that all the way up to the founding of our nation here in America.

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Fascinating. Well, if you want more information on this very important document, go to magdeburgconfession .com,

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and that's spelled, again, m -a -g -d -e -b -u -r -g -confession .com.

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And you can also, I believe, get it at the much easier -to -remember website, defytyrants .com.

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Am I correct? You can get it there as well? Yes, absolutely. And if I could just add one thing about this, too,

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Chris, if you have time for that. Yes. Yeah, here's an interesting historical side note to all that went on there and how the

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Lord uses and is provident. When Luther was done being tried at Bern in 1521, when they were done trying him, the

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Catholic hierarchy came to Charles V, and they said, Don't let him leave.

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Kill him now. And Charles V responded by saying, I will not blush like Sigismund.

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So here's the situation. Charles V had brought Martin Luther to Bern to defend his views under safe conduct of the emperor.

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What that means is the emperor cannot touch you. He cannot molest you. He cannot kill you.

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You are safe. And there's a certain date given which you have his assurance that he won't touch you.

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Well, there was still two weeks left of the safety from the emperor when the trial for Martin Luther ended in Bern, Germany.

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Regardless of that, the Catholic hierarchy immediately comes to Charles V and says,

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Don't let him leave. Kill him now. And Charles V responds and he says, I will not blush like Sigismund.

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What he's referring to when he said that is what had happened to John Huss 100 years earlier.

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100 years earlier, the emperor was

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Sigismund, a man named Holy Roman Emperor Sigismund. And he tricked him. Yeah, he did.

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He brought John Huss to Constance, Germany under safe conduct of the emperor.

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And instead of providing him that safe conduct, he immediately had him arrested, put him in the dungeon for six months, brought him out, gave him a kangaroo trial, burned him at the stake in Constance, Germany.

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And it was the darkest black blot on his entire career as the emperor for Sigismund.

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Even many of the Catholics hated him. He was like, that was your work. But he listened to the Catholic hierarchy and he did what they said.

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He did what they said. And so it had such a negative effect upon the memory of Sigismund that here it is 100 years later.

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And Charles V, when he's told to do that by the Catholic hierarchy, says, I will not blush like Sigismund.

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And so understand, if it had not been for John Huss's martyrdom 100 years earlier,

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Martin Luther very well may have been killed in 1521 at the very beginning of the

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Reformation. It shows how God has different things for different people. You know,

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Huss's was clearly different than Luther's. And it's important to note that Nicholas von

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Amsdorff was with Luther when Frederick the Wise, the Elector of Saxony, abducted him on his way back from Worms because of safe conduct of the emperor.

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He was left Worms. He's on his way back to Wittenberg. Wittenberg is under the jurisdiction of the

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Elector Frederick the Wise. There's the emperor at the top, seven men directly underneath him, all called electors.

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Frederick the Wise was the Elector of Saxony where Wittenberg resided. He knew he was ordered and his duty according to the emperor was to arrest

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Luther and turn him over so he could be executed as a notorious heretic. Instead, he interposed and he feigned

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Luther's abduction, put him in the Wartburg Castle there in Eisenach. Nobody knew if Luther was alive or dead for a year.

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And Luther translated the New Testament into German at that time.

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And by the way, it was the first common language for all Germans. They had hundreds of dialects.

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This was the first time they were able to develop a unified language and it was found in the word of God itself.

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So Nicholas von Amsdorff had seen the interposition of elector magistrates with his own eyes in 1521.

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He knew what the duty was in 1546. And understand, Chris, just how important the interposition of Magdeburg, Germany was.

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If it had not been for the interposition of that one city, likely the

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Reformation would have just been a blip on the radar screen of human history. That's how important their interposition was.

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And often when the lesser authorities interpose, things can be, the evil and the tyranny can be reigned in bloodlessly, but not always.

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And this is one of those cases where it wasn't always. There was actually a 13 -month siege of Magdeburg by Charles V.

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Over 4 ,000 of his men were killed. 468 Magdeburgers were killed.

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But in the end, Charles V capitulated and allowed the Magdeburgers to continue to practice their

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Protestant faith. If it had not been for the interposition of that one city, yeah, we may have seen the

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Reformation annihilated way back then. This is how important the interposition of the lesser authorities are when it comes to the doctrine of the elector magistrate.

33:39

Wow. Well, we are going to our first break right now, and when we return, we're going to focus our discussion on Roe v.

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Wade, the Supreme Court, and the Constitution, misconceptions, myths, and lies that unnecessarily paralyze advocates for the unborn.

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If you have a question for Matt Trujillo, send it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N, gmail .com.

34:03

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence. Don't go away.

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We'll be right back with Matt Trujillo right after these messages from our sponsor. ... James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here, excited to announce that my longtime friend

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Just Thinking Podcast. To register, visit g3min .org, that's g3min .org,

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and click on Events. Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington, D .C.

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So join me and Chris Arnzen, September 15th through the 17th in Washington, D .C.,

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for the G3 Ministries Regional Conference. Register now before they run out of seats at g3min .org,

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that's g3min .org. Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor Booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.

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Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

36:30

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.

36:36

Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the

36:41

Hanover Presbyterian Church, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great

36:51

Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,

37:02

Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

37:08

For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com,

37:15

that's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com, or call 678 -954 -7831.

37:22

That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, have them

37:27

Joe O 'Reilly, Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener, from the Toi in County Kildare, Ireland, send you.

37:44

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

37:49

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak, and have grown to love,

37:55

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jansen and Christopher McDowell.

38:03

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

38:20

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

38:27

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

38:36

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformli .net.

38:43

That's hopereformli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

38:52

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

39:14

If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.

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One such faithful advertiser, who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing, is

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Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society. Their mission?

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To foster belief in the credibility of Scripture as the written Word of God. They go to various churches, schools and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts, along with a fascinating presentation by Mr.

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You can have your own copy of this 44 -page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more.

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41:02

Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air. Attention all men in ministry leadership.

41:23

You're all invited to my friend Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon Thursday, September 22nd, 11am to 2pm at Church of the

41:34

Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania featuring me, James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, your keynote speaker.

41:40

Not only will you enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with your colleagues in ministry over a delicious meal, but you'll also receive dozens of free brand new books donated by Christian publishers all over the

41:52

United States and the United Kingdom personally selected by Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

41:58

So if you're a pastor, an elder, a deacon, a parachurch leader, or any other man in ministry leadership, please register for the

42:06

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon today by calling 631 -291 -7002 631 -291 -7002 or by visiting ironsharpensironradio .com

42:24

ironsharpensironradio .com This is James White of Alpha Omega Ministries hoping to see you

42:29

Thursday, September 22nd, 11am to 2pm at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania for Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon.

42:43

And although the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon is only for men in ministry leadership,

42:52

I'm sure the ladies will be thrilled to hear that the following evening, that will be

42:57

Friday, the 24th of September, no, it's the 23rd of September, I believe,

43:04

Dr. White will be speaking at St. John's Reformed Church in Freidensburg, Pennsylvania.

43:12

And so I am hoping that men, women, and children will attend that one, which is open to the general public.

43:22

And I was right the first time, it's Friday, September 23rd at 7pm at the

43:30

St. John's Reformed Church in Freidensburg, Pennsylvania, where the aforementioned Matt Kennetzer is the pastor who just hosted a conference with my guest today,

43:41

Matt Trujillo. So if you want more details also on Dr. James R.

43:46

White's speaking engagement at St. John's Reformed Church of Freidensburg, Pennsylvania, you can go to sjrcpa .org

43:58

sjrcpa .org And that event is the evening after my pastor's luncheon.

44:05

That will be Friday, September 23rd at 7pm at St. John's Reformed Church in Freidensburg, Pennsylvania.

44:12

We are now back with our guest today, Matt Trujillo, and our main theme today is

44:20

Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court, and the Constitution, Misconceptions, Myths, and Lies that Unnecessarily Paralyze Advocates for the

44:29

Unborn. And a lot of us, or should I say nearly every single human being,

44:38

I'm sure, in the world who is of reasonable age, has heard of Roe v.

44:49

Wade, that so -called landmark decision of the United States Supreme Court in 1973, in which the

45:01

Supreme Court ruled that the Constitution of the United States protects a pregnant woman's liberty to choose to have an abortion without excessive government restriction.

45:13

In other words, it is alleged that this ruling gave women the freedom to murder their unborn children.

45:23

And there is a lot of, as the theme of our discussion indicates, there's a lot of misconceptions, there's a lot of myths, and there's a lot of lies that perhaps even most people are swallowing.

45:38

And most people on the left and the right are swallowing. So, if you could,

45:46

Matt, tell us about what really happened on that infamous day,

45:53

January 22nd, 1973, when there was a ruling by the

45:59

Supreme Court called Roe v. Wade. Yes.

46:05

The Supreme Court ruled that a woman had the right to murder her own son or daughter.

46:12

They said that they had nothing direct to make that assertion, but they relied, they used the term penumbras and emanations, that this right to privacy existed in order for the woman to murder her own son or daughter.

46:32

And when you look up penumbra and emanations, yeah, that's exactly what they did.

46:37

They created this so -called right to privacy to murder one's own son or daughter out of thin air.

46:43

They had no judicial precedent for it. They had no moral precedent for it.

46:51

They had no historical precedent within Western civilization for accommodating that type of evil.

47:00

But that's exactly what they did. And unfortunately, all of the states, all 50 of them, complied with this opinion that was issued by SCOTUS.

47:13

There was not one governor, not one legislature, not one mayor, not one common council that simply said no.

47:23

No one will be murdered here. They all complied. And it was actually my involvement on behalf of the preborn,

47:31

Chris, that got me interested in the doctrine of the lesser magistrate and writing about the doctrine of the lesser magistrate because I was astounded that in the face of murder, there was not any other lawful body that simply said no to the

47:48

Supreme Court. They all complied. And the reason they all complied is because of this fiction called judicial supremacy.

47:59

And judicial supremacy is something fomented by the Supreme Court itself. You can look at their

48:05

Aaron case in 1958. They make their three assertions of the power they claim to possess, which

48:12

I'll get to in a moment, and also the legislative and executive branches like this arrangement of judicial supremacy that they have to do whatever the courts say, which is not true.

48:25

But they like it because they find it a useful political tool because then they can tell their constituents, well,

48:31

I'm personally opposed to murder. I'm personally opposed to homosexual marriage or whatever the case may be.

48:38

But the Supreme Court has ruled, and all I can do is obey. And that's a lie.

48:44

And so this matter of judicial supremacy is massively important to deconstruct to the lesser authorities.

48:52

We have to deconstruct it for the lesser authorities because it's the number one thing they cite for their lack of interposition against the evil that the

49:06

Supreme Court and the judiciary has imposed upon this nation. Understand, the federal judiciary and the

49:13

Supreme Court have been the dispensers of immorality and injustice in this nation for decades.

49:20

Often what wicked men do is what they can't get through representative government.

49:25

They go to the courts in order to get through raw judicial power. And so the fiction of judicial supremacy is this.

49:35

It's built on three things. Number one, it's the idea that when SCOTUS issues an opinion, that opinion is the law of the land.

49:44

And that's absolutely not true. It's not a law. Their opinions are not a law. And they're certainly not the law of the land.

49:52

And if you go to Article I, Section 1, the very beginning of our U .S. Constitution, you see what

49:59

I'm saying is true because Article I, Section 1 of our Constitution states that all lawmaking power shall reside in Congress, which consists of a

50:12

House and a Senate. Now, I was the type of guy, Chris, who would get

50:17

As in every subject except math. I would get Ds. And when they brought letters into math, I never could cross that.

50:23

I was like, ah. But even I understand that if all lawmaking power resides with Congress, with the legislative branch, how much does that leave the judicial branch?

50:38

And that's right, zero. They have no lawmaking power whatsoever. And that's why when the

50:45

Obergefell opinion came down, where the Supreme Court said two men or two women can marry Scalia, Justice Scalia responded in part, and everybody should read his dissenting opinion.

50:56

It is a great read. He said Obergefell is, quote, a naked judicial claim to legislative, indeed super legislative power, a claim fundamentally at odds with our system of government, unquote.

51:13

In fact, there was 83 legal scholars, most of them teaching at major public universities like Emory, like University of Michigan, who five months after Obergefell put out a statement declaring that Obergefell is not the law of the land and calling upon the other federal government branches to check and oppose against the evil of SCOTUS and also calling upon the states and the lesser authorities to also defy the

51:49

Supreme Court. Understand, these men were putting their retirements on the line when they did this,

51:56

Chris, because homosex is like the cause celeb within the education industry.

52:02

And so for them to actually make a stand was profound. And they said within their statement, you can still read it.

52:09

It's still available. It's phenomenal. They said within their statement, this is the end of Western civilization.

52:16

We must see the interposition of the other authorities. They must check the

52:23

Supreme Court and the federal judiciary, because there is nothing in the Constitution that makes a pact between the people and the judiciary or all the other branches of government and the judiciary to go over the side of the cliff with one another and commit suicide.

52:42

And that's what's happening with judicial supremacy. In fact, we have to pick up right where you left off with judicial supremacy, because we have to go to our midway break already.

52:51

Sorry, folks, but please be patient with us, because this is the longer of the normal break, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

52:58

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle, because they are required by the

53:05

FCC to run their own public service announcements while we run our globally heard commercials.

53:11

So please be patient. Send in your questions to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com,

53:17

and we'll be right back after these messages. Featuring me,

53:49

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, your keynote speaker. Not only will you enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with your colleagues in ministry over a delicious meal, but you'll also receive dozens of free brand new books donated by Christian publishers all over the

54:03

United States and the United Kingdom, personally selected by Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

54:10

So if you're a pastor, an elder, a deacon, a parachurch leader, or any other man in ministry leadership, please register for the

54:18

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio free pastor's luncheon today by calling 631 -291 -7002, 631 -291 -7002, or by visiting ironsharpensironradio .com,

54:35

ironsharpensironradio .com. This is James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, hoping to see you

54:41

Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, for Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio free pastor's luncheon.

55:06

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, president emeritus and professor of systematic and applied theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

55:15

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the

55:25

Westminster Larger Catechism, titled Authentic Christianity, by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

55:32

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

55:43

Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

55:55

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.

56:03

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

56:12

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, that Dr.

56:19

Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you. If you're near retirement or thinking about retiring, you probably have questions.

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How do you make your savings last? How much should you take out and when? You're ready for retirement, but are your finances?

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Art Amundsen, an Edward Jones financial advisor, can help you build a strategy to help make sure your finances keep up with your long -term needs.

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Do what it takes to get there. Now it's time to make the most of retirement. Visit edwardjones .com,

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that's edwardjones .com, or call 717 -258 -4688, 717 -258 -4688.

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We here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio are forever grateful for the generous financial support of Art Amundsen, Edward Jones financial advisor in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

57:29

Call 717 -258 -4688 today. Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the

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Shoals. Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world.

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Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants, as well as radio stations, theological seminaries, and various programs for unreached people groups.

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With an aim to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel, it is a blessing to see how

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God has used Anchored in Truth in so many different contexts globally, as well as locally.

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To find out more about this vital work worldwide, visit anchoredintruth .org.

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the

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NASB. This is Darrell Bernard Harrison, co -host of the Just Thinking Podcast, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Tom Buck of First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Kent Keller of Faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Andrew Rappaport, the Founder and Executive Director at Striving for Eternity Ministries, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Mark Romaldi, Pastor of Sovereign Grace Church in Greenbrier, Tennessee, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Christopher Cookston, Pastor of Prineville Community Church in Prineville, Oregon, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Matt Tarr, Pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?

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Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.

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As a mother, I was looking for a magazine that would include devotionals that I could quickly do before school, and had theology and doctrine made very simple for children to understand that they could read themselves, or I could walk them through.

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And put good literature in your children's hands. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

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A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

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Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he shall be represented in the world.

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They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship, and how to worship

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God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a

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Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace

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Or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

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That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. Lynnbrook Baptist Church on 225

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It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

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We're a diverse family of all ages. Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ. In fellowship, play, and together.

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman. I invite you to come and join us here at Lynnbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

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Call Lynnbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402.

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That's lyyfc .org. Hello, my name is

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Anthony Eugenio, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com

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website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

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Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show.

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Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Ovinio, and thanks for listening. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

01:08:32

Excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron radio and I are heading to Washington, D .C.

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for the G3 Ministries regional conference on the theme, Just Thinking About the Bible. The conference will be held

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Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th. I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson, Josh Weiss, founder of G3 Ministries, and Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker, co -hosts of the

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Just Thinking podcast. To register, visit g3min .org, that's g3min .org,

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and click on Events. Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington, D .C.

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So join me and Chris Arnzen September 15th through the 17th in Washington, D .C.

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for the G3 Ministries regional conference. Register now before they run out of seats at g3min .org,

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that's g3min .org. Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.

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purchase generously and frequently, and always mention that you heard about them from Chris Onzen of Iron Sharpens Iron radio.

01:11:18

Before I return to Matt Trujillo and our topic today on Roe v. Wade, the

01:11:23

Supreme Court, and the Constitution, we have just a couple more announcements to make. If you love this show, folks, and you don't want it to disappear,

01:11:31

I'm urging you, please, go to ironsharpensironradio .com, scroll down, and click

01:11:38

Donate Now. You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion, and if you prefer snail mail, you can also send in a physical check to a physical address, because there will be a physical address that also appears on your screen.

01:11:56

And if you want to advertise with us, as long as whatever it is you are promoting is compatible with what we believe, we would love to help you launch an ad campaign, because we are also in urgent need of your advertising dollars.

01:12:10

Please always remember that I never want anybody cutting into the regular giving that you're accustomed to to your own local church, where you're a member, in order to give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:12:21

Please, in other words, don't give your own church less money because you're giving us a financial gift. Also, please do not put your family in further financial jeopardy if you are really struggling to survive.

01:12:33

Those two things are commands of God and Scripture, providing for church and family, and providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God and Scripture.

01:12:43

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Go to ironsharpensironradio .com and scroll down to Donate Now, and click that button and donate instantly.

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And also, if you are not a member of a biblically faithful, Christ -honoring, doctrinally solid, theologically sound church, no matter where you live, like Mercy Seat Christian Church in the

01:13:31

Milwaukee, Wisconsin area, or St. John's Reformed Church in Freidensburg, Pennsylvania, no matter where you live on the planet

01:13:38

Earth, I have extensive lists spanning the globe, and I may be able to help you find a church nearby where you live, as I have already done with many people all over the planet

01:13:47

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01:14:00

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Matt Kennet, sir.

01:14:09

I'm sorry, Matt Trujillo, too many Matts on the show. Matt Trujillo, who is our guest today, and we're discussing

01:14:17

Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court, and the Constitution, misconceptions, myths, and lies that unnecessarily paralyze advocates for the unborn.

01:14:25

You were just saying before the break that most people, perhaps, in this country, and perhaps even globally as they observe what's going on in our country, have believed the lie that the

01:14:39

Supreme Court establishes law that must be obeyed by citizens of all 50 states, and if you want to pick up where you left off there.

01:14:49

Absolutely. Yes, that's the first part of the matter of judicial supremacy.

01:14:55

The first fiction is that their opinions are the law of the land. They are not. And the second part of the fiction is that SCOTUS is the final arbiter of what is constitutional and what is unconstitutional.

01:15:11

And that is simply not true either. They base this idea,

01:15:17

Chris, upon the notion that the Supremacy Clause, which is

01:15:22

Article VI, Paragraph 2 of the Constitution, every lawyer will tell you that's the

01:15:31

Supremacy Clause that gives the Supreme Court the authority to be the final arbiter of all constitutional questions.

01:15:40

But when you go to Article VI, Paragraph 2, you'll notice that that's not the case.

01:15:47

In fact, you'll notice the Supreme Court isn't even mentioned in that paragraph.

01:15:54

You'll notice that the Federal Judiciary is not mentioned there, and you'll notice that what actually has the supremacy is the

01:16:02

Constitution itself. And the very next paragraph after that is about the oath that every magistrate from a policeman to the president takes, which is to uphold the

01:16:17

Constitution. They don't take an oath of subservience to the federal government. They certainly don't take an oath to uphold unjust and immoral court opinions by SCOTUS.

01:16:28

They take an oath to uphold the Constitution, a document that was written in such a way that anyone can understand.

01:16:35

In the few areas where there may be some question, you can go to the minutes of the

01:16:40

Constitutional Convention and see exactly what they had in mind. You don't need experts called lawyers or Supreme Court justices to tell you what it says, because they've been busy redefining what the

01:16:55

Constitution says for over 200 years now. So this is an important matter that SCOTUS was not given supremacy.

01:17:09

In fact, Thomas Jefferson, who spent the last 23 years of his life at war with the

01:17:16

Supreme Court and Federal Judiciary, he was writing to a judicial supremacist of his day, and he wrote and said, you seem to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions, a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy.

01:17:38

So early on, Jefferson saw exactly what the Supreme Court was doing, that in their opinions, they were writing powers for themselves and powers for the federal government, not granted to them in the

01:17:51

Constitution itself. In fact, it only took six years after the ink had dried for them to do that the first time, and the legislative branch responded by passing the 11th

01:18:04

Amendment to the Constitution. Crazy enough, 26 years later, the

01:18:10

Supreme Court trampled the 11th Amendment of the Constitution. In fact, there's 24 cases in the first 35 years of the

01:18:18

Supreme Court's existence where they wrote powers for themselves or for the federal government, not granted to them in the

01:18:26

Constitution itself. So Jefferson spent his last 23 years at war with them against this idea of judicial supremacy, and he said this, he said, the

01:18:40

Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots, and that's exactly what the

01:18:52

Supreme Court has become. They've become an oligarchy of despots. Our founders did not throw off a monarchy to replace it with an oligarchy.

01:19:02

They had a biblical view of the nature of man, that he's wicked and in need of a savior, namely

01:19:07

Jesus Christ. Therefore, they didn't want power to reside in one man or a small group of men, and that's why they pillared forth a federalism within our civil government, and in the federalism, you have multiple levels of government, multiple branches at each level, so that if any one branch or branches begins to play the tyrant, another branch or branches will check that branch.

01:19:31

They will interpose against the evil that they are doing, and so that's what our founders expected.

01:19:38

They expected this tension to be there between the various branches of government, so that if anyone went off course, it would be checked by another branch.

01:19:48

They wanted no final arbiter at all, and that's why Jefferson said the

01:19:53

Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, because there is no final arbiter.

01:20:00

James Madison, who is the architect of the U .S.

01:20:06

Constitution, he said, on the subject of an arbiter or umpire, there can be none external to the

01:20:12

U .S. federal government more than the individual states. So there is no final arbiter, and the third great party of their fiction regarding judicial supremacy, the first being that opinions issued by SCOTUS are the law of the land wrong.

01:20:32

Number two, SCOTUS is the final arbiter of all constitutional questions wrong. Number three is all other authorities in the nation must bow down to whatever

01:20:42

SCOTUS issues. Absolutely not true. They took an oath to uphold the

01:20:47

Constitution, and when any branch, including the federal judiciary, impugns the

01:20:54

Constitution, begins to play the tyrant, it is the duty of the other branches to check that branch.

01:21:01

Not use them as a political expediency for their own designs and desires, where they get to say, well,

01:21:09

I'm against that, but the Supreme Court has ruled, all I can do is obey. And that's what's been going on regarding the pre -born for nearly half a century now, for nearly 50 years.

01:21:22

And it's not just parroted by every school, every lawyer, every politician.

01:21:27

It's been the pro -life, pro -family groups, the ones who claim to be for the pre -born, who have said the only way we can undo

01:21:34

Roe is by going to the tyrants themselves, the Supreme Court, and asking them, will you please undo

01:21:42

Roe? And Roe has been up before the Supreme Court itself 38 times before this.

01:21:49

Roe was upheld every time, 38 times. That's not counting the hundreds of times bills were passed on behalf of the pre -born and then shot down by the federal judiciary, never making it to the

01:22:01

Supreme Court itself. Understand that when Roe v.

01:22:07

Wade was decided, six of the nine justices were Republican -appointed.

01:22:13

And for the next 35 years after that, the Republican -appointed justices outnumbered the

01:22:20

Democrat -appointed justices either 7 to 2 or 8 to 1.

01:22:26

And every four years, the Republicans stampede the Christians and the conservatives to vote for their presidential candidate because they get to appoint the

01:22:36

Supreme Court justices. We've had countless numbers of Republican presidents replace the

01:22:43

Supreme Court justices, and yet we still have this murder going on. So understand, the duty of the lesser authorities, again, is interposition.

01:22:54

There should have been the states right at the beginning in 1973 or any time up until now that should have simply said, no, no one's going to be murdered here.

01:23:03

Instead, they blithely complied with the whole thing. And to a

01:23:08

Supreme Court that has acted lawlessly and impugned the law of God, God's law says you shall not murder.

01:23:18

They're saying, oh, it's okay to murder. And everybody's gone along with this. So anyway, that's what should have happened.

01:23:26

That isn't what happened. And now here we are with another case before the

01:23:32

Supreme Court. And according to a leak, they're going to undo it at this time.

01:23:38

And they say right within the leak, if you read it, it's actually a pretty good opinion. We don't know if that's going to be the actual opinion that comes out in this public.

01:23:48

But the one that was leaked had a lot of good stuff in it. It even had stuff that they seemed to learn from Roy Moore in the

01:23:56

Alabama Supreme Court, which has written extensively on this matter of interposition in the past.

01:24:02

But what bothers me, Chris, is that they say within it that we believe it's time to give the abortion matter back to the states.

01:24:11

That is just hubris. That's just wrong. It never left the states.

01:24:16

It never left the representatives, as they put it, the representatives in the states. It never left their hands.

01:24:22

Their duty, the duty of governors from the beginning was to say no. Understand, there is no policing power for the

01:24:30

Supreme Court in their opinion. The only way anything they rule on has any authority in a state is because the executive of the state, the governor, goes along with it.

01:24:42

And instead of like I live in Wisconsin, we still have the law in our books, pre -Roe v.

01:24:47

Wade. We call it law as baby murder here. And not one governor ever simply did his duty and upheld the law and statutes of our state and defied the

01:25:00

Supreme Court over this matter and protected the pre -born. Instead, they went along with it.

01:25:07

Even when Obergefell came down, homosexual marriage, we had the great conservative

01:25:12

Scott Walker was in office at the time. He couldn't run to a microphone fast enough after Obergefell to tell all of us here in Wisconsin that same -sex marriage is now the law of the land in Wisconsin.

01:25:28

His duty was to uphold our state constitution, which has an amendment in it stating that marriage shall always only be between a man and a woman.

01:25:36

His duty was to uphold the laws of our state, which make clear that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

01:25:43

But instead, he ran and supported the Supreme Court, not doing the duty that he swore him to do regarding his office.

01:25:53

And so obviously your description of him was sarcastic. Yeah. Yeah.

01:26:01

He, you know, and we've seen this over the years. So many, you know, pay lip service to what is right.

01:26:06

But then the reality, unfortunately, of what they do is far different than what they say. And I think it's important, too,

01:26:14

Chris, to understand just how arrogant the judiciary is. You know, we have a biblical view of the nature of man as Christian people.

01:26:21

He's wicked. And so you don't give any human institution unlimited, unchecked power.

01:26:29

Why? Because it'll corrupt itself. And that's exactly what the Supreme Court has done.

01:26:34

And I like to point out, you know, to people, you have to understand when the founding of our nation took place, the

01:26:42

Supreme Court was viewed as the weakest. The judiciary was viewed as the weakest branch of the three branches, the executive, the legislative, and the judicial.

01:26:51

You know, the Supreme Court met in the basement of the Capitol building. And all of the founders wrote about this, that they were the weakest, the least dangerous, that they were the least to annoy the rights established in the

01:27:09

Constitution. Alexander Hamilton, for example, he said the judiciary from the nature of its functions will always be the least dangerous to the political rights of the

01:27:19

Constitution because it will be least in the capacity to annoy or injure them. And what he was referring to when he wrote that,

01:27:26

Chris, was the fact that they have no policing power. That the states would have to say, okay, we're going to go along with it.

01:27:33

The governors, the executive branch, would have to uphold it in their state. And so all they have to do is say, no, nobody's being murdered here when it comes to abortion in our state.

01:27:45

So notice he says that they're the least dangerous branch of government. And then the architect of the

01:27:52

U .S. Constitution, James Madison, said this. He said the judiciary is beyond comparison the weakest of the three departments of power.

01:28:02

He went on to say in Republican government, the legislative authority necessarily predominates. So you're getting this theme, they're the least dangerous, they're the weakest.

01:28:11

Thomas Jefferson said of them, he said at the establishment of our Constitution, the judiciary bodies were supposed to be the most helpless and harmless members of the government.

01:28:23

Experience, however, soon showed in what way they would become the most dangerous. He said that in 1823.

01:28:29

And what he was referring to was the fact that he saw that they were using their published opinions to write powers for themselves not granted to them in the

01:28:38

Constitution. My point is, they were viewed, the judiciary was viewed as the weakest, the most harmless, the least dangerous, the most helpless.

01:28:48

And that's all been turned on its head now, where now all other branches of government, because that's the third great part of the fiction of judicial supremacy, is that all other branches of government must bow down to whatever

01:29:02

SCOTA says. That was not what was intended by our founders. And because we've given them this kind of power, they've corrupted themselves.

01:29:13

They're hubris through the roof. And it's been going on for a long time. I love this quote from 1907.

01:29:20

This is by Justice Charles Evans Hughes, Supreme Court justice. He said that we are under a

01:29:26

Constitution, but the Constitution is what the Supreme Court says it is.

01:29:32

And then in 1936, Harlan Stone, who was appointed by a Republican and then made the chief justice by a

01:29:39

Democrat, because this is a problem that, you know, it's not Republican versus Democrat.

01:29:45

It's a problem in both parties, this idea that the

01:29:51

Supreme Court is the final arbiter and everyone else must obey. Harlan Stone says this.

01:29:56

The only check upon our own exercise of power is our own self -restraint.

01:30:02

Think of the arrogance of that. And then I have this quote from Justice Richard Posner.

01:30:08

And understand I could give literally dozens of quotes. And those two quotes were not said as something that they were dismayed over.

01:30:19

They were proud of these things, correct? They were proud of these things.

01:30:24

They were. Yes, they were saying that's what it is, including this one from Justice Richard Posner.

01:30:32

He just retired from the federal bench in 2017. He was put on the bench in 1982 by Ronald Reagan.

01:30:38

And in a speech given in 2015, he said this. He said, quote, Unquote.

01:31:07

He wasn't saying that to chide this. He was applauding this. This is the arrogance that they have.

01:31:14

They know they have unchecked power, and they really think they can do whatever they want, including changing the meaning of the

01:31:22

Constitution itself. So it's important to point out to your authorities, your lesser authorities, that they took an oath to uphold the

01:31:30

Constitution. They didn't take an oath to uphold unjust or immoral Supreme Court opinions.

01:31:36

And so their duty in the sight of Christ and to their constituents is to interpose against the evil that the

01:31:45

Supreme Court has done. I'm telling you, Chris, I have talked to scores of magistrates of various stripes about this matter.

01:31:54

I tell them all everywhere I go, the judiciary must be defied. I go through this simple thing like I'm sharing with you right now.

01:32:02

They all agree. They all get it. Some of them are a little pumped up, like, wow, I had no idea. But here's what

01:32:09

I found. Once you take this away from them, you know, hiding behind judicial supremacy for not acting in interposition, you really then come up against the grander problem, the bigger problem.

01:32:22

And that's this. It's cowardice. It's a lack of courage. They won't do what's right.

01:32:30

And that's why within the doctrine of the lesser magistrate, the people play a major role. And they must prod their magistrates to do their duty and interpose against the evil.

01:32:40

And they must assure them, of course, that they will stand with them foursquare if they do their duty and stand against the evil.

01:32:49

Well, do their duty and stand against evil. We're going to have to pick up where we left off. And we have a line of listeners waiting,

01:32:58

I'm sure anxiously, to have their questions asked and answered on the air.

01:33:04

We will get to as many of you as we can. And this is going to be a much more brief break than the former ones.

01:33:11

If you have a question, I would urge you to send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:33:18

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages.

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Wow, that's some compliment. How much joy are you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

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sjrcpa .org That's St. John's Reformed Church, Freidensburg, Pennsylvania. We're now back with Matt Trujillo to conclude our topic today on Roe v.

01:47:03

Wade, the Supreme Court, and the Constitution. And do you have anything to wrap up on what you were saying before the break, before we go to our listener questions?

01:47:13

Not really, other than there's a myth out there that when Roe goes down, that abortion will be illegal from coast to coast.

01:47:21

I've been stunned by how many people think that way, and that's not the case at all. The fight will continue on for our pre -born neighbor.

01:47:28

I'm going to simply be at the state level, the battle will be taking place at that point.

01:47:38

So, and understand this matter of judicial supremacy also, Chris, if people don't eschew that thinking, if that isn't corrected so they see things properly and understand judicial supremacy is a lie, it is fiction, they spent 50 years murdering the pre -born through raw judicial power.

01:48:00

We are one court opinion away from the Supreme Court telling people that the government can tell you what you're going to put in your body or what you're going to put in your children's bodies, including things as evil as experimental gene therapies, whatever the case may be.

01:48:21

Yeah, this thinking needs to stop, and people need to understand the importance of a true federalism and that all the branches matter and that the duty of the lesser authorities is to interpose when the superior authority does evil.

01:48:37

Okay, we have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, New York, who wants to know, then can you briefly explain in simple language what exactly occurred after the decision was made in 1973 by the

01:48:52

Supreme Court regarding Roe v. Wade? Yeah, what occurred is the abortionists set up shop and began to ply their trade openly in the murder of the pre -born, and the number of babies killed caused, like any awful activity, if you legalize it, it becomes more prevalent within the culture, and so the numbers of those being murdered by abortion grew leaps and bounds.

01:49:27

Now, if the Supreme Court does not establish law, why was that a change in legal policy, that decision?

01:49:38

Again, it's because the politicians, those within the legislative and executive branches, like this cozy arrangement where they can hide behind the skirt of the court and simply tell their constituents, yeah,

01:49:52

I'm against that, but the Supreme Court has ruled, else I can do abate. In other words, it lets them off the hook of doing their duty and interposing against evil.

01:50:04

Okay, we have someone that we haven't heard from in a long time. He happens to be the individual that you just heard earlier voicing the ad for Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia.

01:50:21

Joe, from a tie, or a thigh, or at thigh, I'm really butchering the name of this city in Ireland, in County Kildare, Ireland, and Joe says, please forgive me if this has already been addressed.

01:50:39

As a non -American, the politics of state versus federal law can be confusing for many of us.

01:50:44

I hear many people online saying Roe v. Wade being overturned makes this a state issue rather than a federal issue.

01:50:53

If that's the case, will the overturning of Roe v. Wade make any tangible difference in individual states to help eliminating the murder of the unborn?

01:51:05

Yes, it will, and it always has been a state issue. There was no authority ever granted to the federal government regarding this matter, and of course not by the judiciary in any means.

01:51:18

And so it will make a difference. There will be states that are able to protect the preborn now, whereas before any protections they offered were shot down by the federal judiciary or the

01:51:35

Supreme Court itself. So there will be more of an opportunity. The thing people are going to see, though,

01:51:42

Chris, is they're going to be shocked by their Republican representatives because they'll be looking for every way they can to stab the preborn in the back.

01:51:57

They're going to make exceptions and say, you can kill this group, you can kill this group, you can kill this group, you just can't kill these ones over here through abortion.

01:52:05

That's going to be very common. In fact, just three weeks ago, Louisiana had a tremendous bill to just outlaw abortion altogether, treat it as the murder that it is, no exceptions.

01:52:18

And that bill shouldn't even survive. The Louisiana legislature is one of the most quote -unquote pro -life legislatures in the nation.

01:52:29

So I think people are going to be stunned at the duplicity of the

01:52:34

Republican officials, and also they're going to be stunned by the behavior of their pro -life, pro -family groups, which they support.

01:52:44

Understand there's been a push for the last six years for bills of abolition, which do exactly what

01:52:50

I just said Louisiana was trying to do, outlaws it as the murder it is, no exceptions, defy the judiciary if necessary, equity in it within the law itself.

01:53:05

That's been done in 14 states, and bills like that have been introduced in 14 states over the last six years.

01:53:11

All of them have been killed by the Republican leadership and the pro -life, pro -family groups.

01:53:18

The pro -choice groups haven't even had to show up at the table. So I think people are going to be stunned at how awful it really is, and I hope it causes them to dig in further for the fight, because it's going to be needed more than ever now on behalf of these little ones who can't defend themselves.

01:53:38

By the way, I forgot to tell Ronald in eastern Suffolk County that you have won a copy, a free copy, of the

01:53:47

English version of the Magdeburg Confession, and so make sure you give us your full mailing address so that Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship that out to you.

01:53:57

I'm really sorry, Joe in Ireland, that we can't ship you a copy because of the fact that you're overseas and the shipping cost for CVBBS .com

01:54:08

would be astronomical if they were to open up these free books and Bibles to everybody in the world.

01:54:15

So we apologize, but this is for American listeners only. And we have

01:54:23

Alexander in Winter Park, Florida. I wanted to ask your guest today,

01:54:31

I heard recently, let's see, I wanted to ask your guest today,

01:54:36

I heard recently that Biden said he could do an executive order if Roe v.

01:54:42

Wade is overturned. Can your guest comment on if he did that, how would it work, and how likely is that to happen?

01:54:54

Well, given that it's Joe Biden, anything is possible, that's for sure. And again, executive orders have a limited purview in how far their authority goes.

01:55:06

Obviously, the president isn't an emperor, even though the media has tried to make them into emperors, and they think of themselves as such.

01:55:14

But the truth of the matter is, they're not the law. And so, again, this would be the importance of the lesser authorities standing in their position against any evil through executive order that Joe Biden would want to do in order to murder helpless pre -born babies.

01:55:31

More than ever, this doctrine of the lesser magistrate is needed in our society in so many ways.

01:55:39

And this could proffer another instance in where it is needed. I know we have within our state a

01:55:46

Democrat governor, and even though we have a law still on the books outlawing abortion, he may very well say,

01:55:53

I'm not going to uphold that law. That will become the duty of the other authorities then in order to check the evil that he's doing regarding not doing the duty of his office and upholding our state statute regarding that.

01:56:07

There's interesting times ahead, as you know. Things are breaking apart in this country. Lawlessness abounds.

01:56:13

Decadence of Americans is astounding. And there's a battle underway for the souls of men.

01:56:19

And so as Christian men, we have to engage in these matters at all levels, on a personal level, within our homes, within our churches, and also within the community at large, including the offices of the magistrates.

01:56:35

We must engage civil government with Christian thought. We have Ted in Moundville, Alabama.

01:56:42

And he asks, are there any Republican politicians or jurists at either the national or state level that meet your approval?

01:56:53

Say that again if you could. Are there any Republican politicians or jurists at either the national or state level that meet your approval?

01:57:04

Yeah, there are. There are far and few between. So it's like what you learn is that when you engage the civil authorities is that things are really, really bad.

01:57:18

And most of them will tell you what you want to hear, but they'll never do what they need to do.

01:57:24

They're far on lip service, short on action. And so there's very few that I have supported or will support simply because it's the same old, same old.

01:57:37

Here is the number one boilerplate question for anyone running for any public office, and it's this.

01:57:44

Ask them, what do you believe about judicial supremacy? Because that matters.

01:57:50

The judiciary must be defied. And if they aren't willing to defy the judiciary, you can pass your laws or your ordinances all day long.

01:57:58

But if you're just going to wait until some court tramples them like they've been doing for decades now, any good law or policy for the most part, you're accomplishing nothing.

01:58:09

So the interposition of lesser authorities is needed. The judiciary must be defied, and that's why that's the number one boilerplate question.

01:58:17

What is your view of judicial supremacy? It tells you volumes about whether you should put your time into this person or not, and it also gives you an opportunity to school them in what judicial supremacy is, the liar that it is.

01:58:28

By the way, we're out of time, and guess what? Everybody who sent in a question is going to get a free copy of the

01:58:35

Magdeburg Confession, even Joe, because I'm going to pay for that shipping myself since Joe was kind enough to record that commercial for us.

01:58:42

So you can cheer up, Joe. We're going to mail that book to you as well. And I want to make sure that you have the website, defytyrants .com,

01:58:52

defytyrants .com. Thank you so much for doing such a superb job. Matt, I look forward to your return to the program.

01:58:59

Well, thank you. It was a blessing to be with you. I loved it. God bless you. I want everybody to have a blessed, safe, and happy weekend in Lord's Day, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater