Melissa Dougherty: How A Cult Got Me Out Of The New Age

Alright welcome back ladies and gentlemen to cultish entering the kingdom of the cults. My name is Jeremiah Roberts. I'm one of the co-hosts here. I'm gonna introduce you all to our guests here in just a second.

Some of you if you're watching YouTube You might be familiar with her but for first and foremost I am joined by Andrew the super sleuth of the show up in Harriman, Utah. They get it. That's not it. Okay, good job.

Oh, yeah, and your your voice is sounding really silky smooth today I don't know. Are you drinking like something good over there like some alpha brain or something brain?

It's basically it's us. It's sanctified DMT and was I'm just kidding. It's a it's a nootropic. I guess and I use sometimes. I take that take it supposed to help with brain function cognitive ability and all that.

Because we're gonna be doing a podcast want to have clear thinking I guess so. Sometimes like to sip on that just kind of have a good amount of focus but I. Andrew it's a is. Kate Casey still has not had the baby yet.

Has she. That's correct.

She's 40 weeks and six days pregnant. Maybe by the time this airs I'll have my second son third child second son.

So yeah, we'll see and just you know to Andrew's little set that you see there it's actually in one of the little rooms inside of his apartment in up in Harriman, Utah and. So who knows if you have to jump up real quickly?

Given the circumstances will understand and I'll be I'll try and carry the conversation by myself that happens. But anyways, we are here and joined by Melissa.

Doherty you did good. I did it good.

It took a while. I used to put your last name, but you know.

Yeah, it was partially my fault though, too, because I never corrected you and I liked a lot Doherty right, but then Daughtry. Yes, it sounds cooler. So yeah.

Yeah, but it's good to have you back. This is your third time here, yeah, and. So you've been here twice once with dream virtue and we were talking about the Bethel in the New Age. And then we had the one it's crazy to think about.

It's been almost two years since right on the very the birth pangs of 2020 and the pandemic and all that. We did it right in March when Trump declared a state of emergency.

And I think we were here in this. Yes, and I'm like what's happening? How am I gonna?

I was looking at my work and at the time I was working at Costco and I was looking at just the lines like all 12 Registers were open as before any of the mask mandates and it was just packed full of people just you know.

Just throwing whatever they could in the carts. It was nuts. But we survived like and even as crazy too because I remember we're at the one restaurant for peaks brewing and you're looking on Your phone it was Steven was here and you were like you're looking at your phone wondering if I'm gonna have to rent a car.

Oh, yeah, how am I gonna get home? That was the thing nothing happened. Yeah, everything was fine. The plane got delayed like two hours we were inside the plane and it was stuck on the on the runway and it was.

It was not it was not the yeah, it was not the best time. But yeah, it was great content though talking about the Word of Faith movement. And that was that was really good. I was actually what we talked about the Substance of the conversation.

It was really good.

Yeah, so just real quick if for anyone who doesn't know you just kind of tell them just a little about your like what you Do like what you're all about and kind of like areas of pack. We're gonna talk about some topics.

That is really your story. Which a lot of your story is how you got to where you are today. But you can't tell them but you've got a YouTube channel and just tell them some things you're passionate about.

Just tell us a little bit of what you're all about. Yeah, so I do have a YouTube channel. It's my name Melissa Doherty. And yeah, I cover things like apologetics which is like defending the faith. I'm an ex New Ager, which we'll get into like how that all happened and I.

Like to cover theology. New Age in the church is something I'm really passionate about. That's one of the things that we talked about before here on the podcast. Because that's that's happening and that's something we have to address and I do a.

I'm a mixed bag. Yeah, right I'm a mixed bag on my channel because you never know what you're gonna find one day I'll probably maybe I'll be doing a painting, you know. Because I have an art angle to me that I like to express in my ministry and then satire is something I really enjoy.

Yeah, there's a lot of truth that you can use in satire. And then sometimes I'll do theology. Sometimes I'd be apologetic. Sometimes I'll do discernment things. And yeah, yeah, just a mixed bag. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and I think the one thing is I really appreciate about is that I think just coming. We're coming the same boat the recovering, you know Christian apologetics and sometimes we're delving into issues that aren't without its fair share of controversy.

Yes. But what I do like is that I think I feel like especially your approach and maybe it's just you. Just being you is that I think sometimes like you have a very relaxed Relatability where people will look at the content or what you're talking about and it's almost like, you know, so Michael in there like I'm not sure I feel about that.

Okay, it's what I'm gonna hear out. Yeah, I just kind of feel that vibe when I watch your videos, which is something I think I appreciate because everyone everyone whether. Everyone has can say the same thing talk about the same topic, but in a different way.

I mean I'm gonna talk about something different than Mike winger does or Lisa Childers or you know Who are it versus you we're all gonna talk about the same topic, but in a different way. But I just really like your approach to the topic.

So I just want to say that also. So I'm just curious. Let's just jump into it. So a lot of people may know. You and your content, you know when you posted the other day, they're they're excited and some people are saying Oh, I love I love cultish and all that when I I know when we posted we did the podcast today.

You know people will be excited because a lot of people in our platform know you. So they know they I think they know you just through the content that you make. But I don't think they know and honestly, there's a lot part.

Why don't we even know I kind of know in passing little little parts of it? But I think you have like a very unique story. I think there's also a lot of things we can learn about some of the worldviews that impacted you and how that almost formulated.

You know who you are today. But I think also we can just kind of understand. You know just sometimes like what what is life for someone like in that mindset? Because like Walter Mar would always talk about when you want to define terms.

When you're talking to you know a cultist or someone that's it isn't is in the new age. But not just that defined terms, but you want to get an understanding of like what is the real mindset of someone?

You know. We talked about when you dug their episode on mission how to talk to more than missionaries. I get inside their mind like what is it like for someone who's 19 years old who's grown up in this in something that.

Sometimes it just be like I just do it because it's traditional. But now I'm giving up two years of my life away from my family away from everything. Yes, just in that spot. What is it really like for someone like to go put yourself in that in their shoes for a second?

So I think a lot of what you're gonna share is gonna be very indicative of that.

New Thought, New Age, and a Childhood of Manifestation

Yeah, and it's interesting that you thank you. By the way. I appreciate that feedback on how I conduct myself online because it's What you just said kind of brings that back is what it comes down to is empathy.

Empathy is very different than sympathy. If you're if you empathize with someone you're basically Putting yourself in their position and trying to feel like Insightfully feeling what they're feeling and I find that when I do that I approach people very differently.

And I cover the content differently, you know, so I'm firm, but I'm fair and. And a lot of that has to do with My upbringing and and how the all this works and and yeah I think people that have followed me on YouTube kind of maybe don't know My whole complete story and it's funny because I I don't know I've been doing ministry for years and I've been saying the same story, but My platform has just changed in the last year like you're one of my good friends you Jerry Are you Andrew like people in apology?

It's like you guys still don't even know from beginning to end. So it's interesting and for the record. I've had a video up on my channel Called my story and it tells this story. Basically. It's my testimony.

So yeah, I mean I can start from the beginning.

Yeah, yeah. Cuz I know well I know the only thing that you've mentioned is that I mean some people may know you from initially. When you're on the series at Bethel in the new age. Talked about your example being into into a new thought.

We'll definitely unravel that and there's levels in which we've had episodes before on Jehovah's Witnesses and those sort of blend together. But yeah. Let's just take just take us back to the beginning and let's just have a conversation.

Definitely. I'm excited here and we'll just see where this goes. Yeah. Yeah, so that basically.

I Grew up in a household. It was my mom and I got divorced when I was two and so it was just my mom and this is really important and I want to be careful with how I You know Talk about my family for their privacy.

But the upbringing the spiritual upbringing that I had formed everything to set me up for when I was a teenager. The catalyst and the examples that I had I mean my great-grandparents were Christian scientists.

Which is very important because a lot of the teachings in that religion I grew up hearing but there was also things pulled from other religions That were kind of melded together. I would hear stories about Entities beings just appearing in her home and visiting my mother and it was never something she feared but she had no Frame of reference for this the church would call her demonic, right, you know, and she's like.

But I don't know how to make sense of this. Nobody could sit down and really explain these things to her. So she Understood that there has to be a higher truth to this of a different spirituality something that would give me Some sort of traction with what I'm experiencing and she basically found this in New Age and New Thought teachings.

Mm-hmm, and and these are metaphysical teachings like your thoughts can Manifest your reality and I remember specifically things happening as a child. That seemed to solidify things that she said. I remember one time we were told to Visualize our home.

What kind of home do you want? Mm-hmm, and I still it's him to this day. See this home in my head I remember doing this exercise. Well, all three all four of us would visualize. And I had two sisters so it was me my mom and my sisters and We would visualize this home and we wanted a two-story home with white on the outside blue trim shutters plants on the outside in a driveway lined with trees and a pond in the backyard and I remember seeing this every day.

My mom comes home crying one day like it's there it exists. She shows this house and I'm guys. This is the weirdest thing. Okay, so this is how do you at this time? I was um, I remember being in sixth grade.

Okay, so I think I was 11 12 Mm-hmm, so old enough to remember this really interesting thing that happened and it solidifies it, right? So you believe in this and you think oh I manifested that like we all put our brainpower together and and manifested this thing into reality and I remember my mom explaining this house and she was so happy to have this house, you know and The irony is that we never ended up buying it.

But I remember this house and so it's just things like that. My mom would see auras colors on people and Every color had a different meaning to it. Uh there was just so many things that happened during my childhood and I remember being told things like the other dimensions exist.

Now imagine your child for a second. Okay, and you're told that the things that you imagine actually exist in another dimension you want to fly. Well, that might be able that might be something you can do if you accessed this this other dimension, you know unicorns.

Fairies, you know like these things that we think are imaginary according to Certain laws of the universe so opposedly, you know spiritual laws actually exist in some other dimension, right? Now when you're told this as a child and you're told you have this power.

Basically, you feel like a superhero and you feel like if I could only tap that right tap into that. Right, if only I could release this power and it reminds me of what we would see in movies like The Chosen One you know, like you're trying to practice and awaken this power and There's a show on Netflix.

It's called shadow and bone or something like that. There's a book about it. Yeah, and it's been out for a while, but it's it's this character. She's basically trying to awaken This summoning power and within her to you know.

And like that's the story of us like whenever we're trying to do these things. We're trying to awaken this spirituality that we're told is dormant within all of us and that we can awaken it. So this is kind of the foundation for my childhood like with how I grew up.

Let me ask you this too because I think it's also in a second We should probably define turns and maybe help people understand like new thought agenda. We're kind of describing bits and pieces of it but a lot of it has to do with you kind of attract like what you.

What you conceive in your mind you kind of manifest like reality like you're. Our world is an extension. It's sort of an outward extension of what's going on inside of your mind. Yes, and so but all in there's levels where you know, you'd try and visualize these positive things.

But I think also I think for some people it's a two-way street where not only are you trying to? Reflect the positive, you know trying to attract positive thing by your thoughts. But then like how do you interpret tragedy or suffering or something that happens when you're disappointed when someone like lets you down?

Is it then your fault? I'm curious about that like I mean your thoughts on that but also I mean through the mindset of a child like so when you're in 11th grade and like the mindset of you know, Just trying to growing up and developing and kind of figure out even who you are as your person your identity.

Like how did that worldview like affect you like as in like 11 or 12 year old?

Well, I Figured that everybody I Wanted to be like special and that was the thing is that you wanted to kind of be Special and so you see everybody you see the world and the irony is is that if you had anybody that was really religious They were just kind of closed minded, you know, and you saw truth in everything, you know it was always about finding the what you all had in common and the the tolerance for that which was really really important and that was just something I was taught and grew up with and Just assumes and and to point out.

Okay, so like there's a difference between new age and new thought and let me define this for A minute. I was more into the new thought okay, so new age is more occultic when I think of new age think of like a Kind of like the crystal ball a fortune teller, you know, like you yeah, you think of tarot cards you think of psychics And to be sure this is all in her inner intermingled But it's more occult like a new thought goes back to more of like Phineas Quimby in the 1800s Age of Enlightenment where the metaphysical Teachings of your mind are extended into reality.

So and you're thumbing through this book. So this book is really interesting.

So anyway, you know, we got this former fan sent it to us. It's called we have to be careful this from 1916 the master key system. So it has that so it has that nice like vintage like book smell to it.

Smell it just now and it's like I'm like an antique nerd and some people like he's such a weirdo, but um, but yeah. It's this from 1916 and it's it's interesting too because when you when you think about new thought and you just skim through it today.

You know a lot of times with what we have. It's all sometimes it's subtle where the new a because new age is so inundated now with our culture. But this book is so like direct and blatant. What was the one page you had in there talking about the omniscient?

Yeah, so we were there and you we have the bookmars from like sections of the straw from the coffee shop. Yeah. You see in this book.

It's actually you say the thing is is that whatever is taught in this book just by skimming through Are the very things that I remember hearing growing up like this is it's not really it's so funny. They call it new age and new thought there's nothing new about it.

Like these are the things that have been taught through millennia, but this part this particular portion is in part eight. Remember, this is a book for like 1900. So it's like yeah, and it's like a set up like a devotional.

But this is what it says when you have become thoroughly conscious of the fact that the mind capital M. Because the mind is an active organism in new thought. The fact that the mind is the only creative principle that it is omnipotent.

Omniscient and omnipresent and that you can consciously come into harmony with this omnipotence that your power of thought. Through your power of thought you will take or you will have taken a long step in the right direction.

And that's just one aspect of it so these are the kinds of things where it's like if you can tap into that universal mind if you can Find that inner power within yourself. You can do these things, too.

I remember being told hey if you had enough faith and the faith is seen as like a power. You could walk through walls. You could be invisible. You could do all these things. You could leave your body and visit these other dimensions.

Like that was something was very intriguing to me. Mm-hmm. And so I never really practiced these things though in principle. What I did is I grew up with this as like the foundation that undergirded everything I believed in.

So it was the new thought aspect. It's all the same though because at its core both new age and new thought teach the same thing that you are divine. At its very core. So that's very important to remember that how you reach that divinity can vary but that's basically what it is and because you can do these things because you can manifest because you can you have this inner power you just have to awaken it and Find how you can harness that so it just reminds me of a lot of Hollywood movies out there sometimes.

But when I went into my teenage years, this is kind of where everything changed. Yeah, I was 16 and I didn't really have like this grasp of belief in God. I didn't I went we went to church, you know, like we went to church sometimes growing up I went to a Presbyterian Church actually growing up.

Yeah, my mom. But that's the thing though is that you can isn't it interesting how you can go to church almost every week and Believe in some garbage sometimes, you know, it's weird. Yeah, and so I was in a really really dark place and Everything in my life was revolved around everything else and I go into more detail in my video, but one thing that's really important to understand about me at this time was I was somebody that really really really craved attention and I don't know if maybe it was just growing up without a dad.

I'm not sure quite what it was I didn't have like a good strong like connection with my mom growing up. Like I think I should have so I found that elsewhere with friends, you know, and I became very accustomed to attention.

So like whatever I could do to get attention. I did it like lying was a big thing my favorite thing to do was to embellish and sensationalize things that were physically wrong with me and People knew you know what?

I mean, like, you know how you have a friend that kind of just does that like me they're kind of I Don't know a little much and you can kind of call them on that on those things. So it's hard to take them.

Seriously well, I mean I got to the point where I really ended up hurting somebody and It caused me it just catapulted me into this really really dark place. Like I was suicidal. I was contemplating it planning it and I didn't I Didn't have anybody to talk to like I was very lonely.

I didn't like who I was. I hated who I was I didn't like anything about myself and It wasn't I just wanted out I wanted a release from this Life that I was and I felt like I was in shackles. This is nearly in later teens.

I was 16 years old.

Suicide, Attention, and the Search for Forgiveness

Yeah, okay. I just want to just give one just one thought. Maybe you can elaborate this because I'm again you mentioned, you know. Just being you know 16 and having this worldview of like, you know, you are what you think and ever practice it though.

But that was the foundation the foundation. Yeah. Yeah, but I wasn't interested in spiritual things yet. Hmm.

Yeah, you will you still you still have the you know. This is the underlying thing that would that you were taught and I think that you know a lot of times and maybe you can. Maybe this will be connected to it later on but just in the new age like Stephen talked about it when he was on and that we've had people like Teresa on.

Who've kind of told their story there? There seems to be a precedent in the new age of people sort of putting on a front like everything is okay. Like I have it together now even at this period, you know, you're not really embracing that spirituality.

But there is levels in which you're sort of I don't know if it was the case where you're trying to just Be the life of the party or kind of do whatever to put on a face. But inside you have nowhere to express how you're feeling internally like regarding suicide if that makes sense.

Yeah, so, um, is it kind of like to where when you're when you're a child? It's there's more of like a childlike faith in something. You usually take the identity usually of your parents in some type of way but when you're a teenager, you kind of lose some of that and now you're kind of in this this balance between what you've learned before but you're kind of not necessarily into the new thought type of thinking anymore because you're looking for exception and Attention and other and other people by embellishing and doing things of that nature.

So you weren't super spiritual now like you were when you're a kid because kids are very imaginative and they're always you know Thinking outside the box, but you're at this specific age now. It's kind of like you're in the you're in the middle like you're in this like waiting room almost it sounds like.

No, I wouldn't say I did that. I always believed in God even yeah always believed in God. I remember when I understand the concept of what a full solar eclipse was. Um something about that even at a young child.

I'm like, that's no accident. You know, like there was something like wow, that's too perfect. And then I remember at a very young age my mother explaining a seed. And I heard this Repeated in school as well, you know.

But the way that it was put to me was this tiny little seed has enough information in it to to grow this huge Tree like that was that blew my mind. That absolutely blew my how can that become that and create more of this?

What is in here? Yeah, you know what? I mean? So like there was an aspect of Where I could see God in creation. That's like Romans one stuff, right? I saw that I wouldn't say I I was fascinated with the beliefs that I grew up with.

But I I was never at a point where I just put it aside and didn't practice it. I Was just more Involved with other things all I cared about where it was hanging out with my friends and like acceptance from people that's all I cared about and What however I could do that I would and I remember when I'm going through this Dark time.

I mean my mom didn't even know about it, but I remember Her telling me things about my mind like changing the way I'm thinking So that I can get this outcome and I remember doing that briefly at the beginning of this whole Period I was in and it just didn't work.

I'm like, I I tried to envision it and it just crumbled like everything I envisioned was like the opposite and it was just not good, you know, and What ended up happening? Was like the coolest thing that's ever happened in my entire life.

To be honest even to this day looking back on it in hindsight. It was the weekend and I remember I I Wasn't I don't know if I would have made it like another 24 hours if I'm honest. Like I even looking back now like it was it was not a good time.

I was I knew how I wanted to Do myself in? And I remember thinking okay, let's go out, you know kind of in an essence I there was many different things going on in my mind at this time, but I'm like, okay Let's go out and I remember going out with my friend because I'm like, you know Let's just have fun one last time kind of thing like do something.

Yeah, and had I not ever gone out with her, you know, you know what I mean? You think yeah, you're like had I not done this would this have happened right? I'm out with her and We had a friend and this was in 2003.

Okay, so like I don't even know if Cellphones, I don't even think text messaging was a thing back then. Like the the progress of technology is interesting I remember having a pager, but I don't think maybe I did have it like a yeah or something.

I think the only option back and yeah texting was hard in 2003 because you'd have to you'd have to like a like one twice. To go through like a B and C's.

So but I don't think texting was a thing because I remember being 19 moving into an apartment like Oh texting.

I remember yeah, I don't but even back when texting was a thing like you it needed to be like really Really important if you're gonna send a text you had to like really work hard just to write a sentence.

Yeah, it's not like this. Yeah these kids today they have no idea yeah.

They haven't seen the things we've seen they have not seen. You're bringing a great point because I think as you're kind of unraveling this I mean like one thank you for like being vulnerable and sharing that yeah.

But I think when it comes to now and even like what we're all in like that the online world of like apologetics. We're dealing with like real, you know, we're talking about different worldviews beliefs and comparing them.

You know, we're doing it unapologetically from a Christian perspective and a Christian worldview and talking about these different other perspectives and. But you know behind What we're dealing with our car real people with real struggles and real, you know.

Issues that sometimes in this whole world now like we almost because we only operate through this. It's almost like we kind of strip the person that we're talking to. We can please strip them of their humanity and like we just.

Aside from this Facebook profile that you're talking to and tagging to and arguing back and forth. Like do you know what struggles are they're having? Are they're having like mental health issues or are they maybe they're in a spot where they're they've been like contemplating suicide?

Like and that's just in in general I think in the Christian Church, that's still like one of those like taboo things that people are still like. Afraid like that. Yeah. I don't know if I want to really want to talk about it.

But a lot of people a lot more people struggle with that. Mm-hmm, then we realize so I think as there's just a good point to say that we add like even in apologetics and what we deal with like we need to have a lot of compassion and empathy for the people that we're conversing with.

Because a lot because even like in regards to cults and cultism mean cultism and in the areas and issues of mental health they go Hand-in-hand. Mm-hmm as more people most people have gone through stuff.

That's traumatic. But I think that's just something like really important to have an emphasis on.

The Gospel at a Party and the First Taste of Grace

Yeah most people want to they want to try to win an argument when they're not really understanding the fact that the gospel is to set somebody free from their sin and the effects of sinner are. Staggering, you know, it's debilitating to people and if you're trying to just win an argument with somebody in apologetics.

You're not. You're not doing it for the right reason whatsoever. You're just you're just a gong.

Unfortunately, you know, so yeah, you guys are kind of prophetically speaking right now because this is kind of a big issue. But I'll get to that Josh Lewis is listening. Oh.

Anyways, we love Josh. Yeah, so you said so back where you are you are in a place where I'm driving in a car with. Your friend with your friend.

I'm alone and this is important because earlier that night we had gotten a text from a friend of ours a mutual friend and He invited us to this house party and no big deal, but we said no at the time what was Very important is that later after I dropped off my friend.

I turned my car around and decided to go to this party and I'll never forget this night. It was like this 24 hours that transpired after this was I Mean the charismatics would love this like seriously.

It's like that I mean, I'm it was amazing how this all happened. But I go in and I remember everything very vividly. I walk in I see my friend standing there. Okay, he's at a house party. Alright, there's people drinking their stuff going on and he's he's very animated.

He's like insisting on something kind of like almost fighting with with my friend with my other friend who's the owner of the house and he's like Calm down. Like I just walked in on that scene I didn't think much of it and I grab a bottle of wine and I remember sitting down on the couch and I'm just Done like I'm just kind of depressed, you know, just kind of contemplating.

Okay, this is my like last few nights like being around people and it didn't really care it was really numb deep dark feeling now to kind of flashback to me growing up the Jesus that I heard about growing up was a Jesus of An example of what you could be.

All right, so he was how you tapped into your inner power and we know that we could because that's how Jesus Taught it. He was love but but not the type of love that the Bible teaches about this is very important.

Because the sentence that came out of my friend's mouth changed my life it was about forgiveness and Like I'm sitting there on the couch and he's he's talking to everybody. I don't exactly know what he's saying and he's talking about God though.

I figured right I figured out finally he's talking everybody. He's talking about God and I remember saying something so negative like, you know what God doesn't care there's nothing to live for like there's nothing that I God doesn't love me like there's nothing about this to love kind of thing and I remember he looks straight at me in the eye and he looks over and he's like No, there's nothing you've done that God will not forgive like everything that you can bring to the table He will forgive that and I remember the exact moment that I believed him like I'm staring down at the ground staring at this bottle and I'm like Oh my gosh, he's right.

I'm like I I want that. I want this forgiveness. Yeah, and that that was the catalyst everything changed that night.

And as you're at this party holding this bottle of wine, was it was it leaking oil? That's hilarious. That's that has to do with like inside jokes. If you've ever hung out with Steven and I we always see them being cars.

No, it's always interesting like circumstantial like God sometimes will have the ability he'll he'll show up. You know, he's like the guy at the 11th hour like he'll show up in these like least expected areas.

Like sometimes even that's the story. Yeah story. Well, yeah, but like he uses yeah.

Well you think about so like the churches where they have to like do you know the Perfect lighting with the perfect like hypnotic music and the fog machine and all that. But it's like you didn't have any of that.