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00:00 Introduction - Fishing Stories 01:47 Racial Justice Debate Response Begins 18:15 The Agenda REVEALED - For Conservatives and Liberals
All right, well let's get started. I hope you had a good long weekend. Summer's coming to an end. I hope you did something really fun. I went to a lake in upstate New York with the family, and this was actually with some friends that we've been friends with since I lived in New York, so a number of years.
And normally, the kind of guy I am is I don't normally stay in touch with people too readily, but luckily our wives all stay in touch and they talk almost every day, so I've been able to maintain relationships with these guys and we all have kids now and it's just a whole lot of fun.
There's a lake, a big lake, beautiful lake, that we stayed at right next to. And I went out fishing a few times and I really struck out. I mean, I caught a couple of small fish, but didn't really get much.
But we did have, there were two private kind of like ponds that we found. And this was like juvenile bass heaven. We caught probably 70 bass. Some of them were like little fingerlings like this, and some of them were probably six to 10 inches, stuff like that, about half and half.
And me and my son just had a blast. We fished a ton. And I rigged him up with this two hook system where there's like a weight at the bottom and then going up, there's two hooks and two different baits and twice we caught two fish at the same time.
It's just unbelievable. It was the best fishing that we've had in a long time. Also, before I left on Thursday, I caught a four pound smallmouth bass on a very windy day. I was getting very frustrated.
I couldn't even keep my kayak anywhere, but I managed to hook and land a four pound smallmouth bass, which in New Hampshire, it technically qualifies as a trophy fish according to Fish and Game. So that is pretty awesome.
It was a lot of fun. Let's get back to it. We're gonna go to the racial justice, good faith debate. I was pretty hard on the conservative guy. And I think a lot of you totally get why it was hard on him.
Some of you don't, and hey, that's okay. We've got a mixed audience here and we can all be friends and we can all be on the side of the angels here. So let's get into the Q &A, because I have a feeling this is where it's gonna get interesting.
Again, I don't really see much of a debate here. I mean, the conservative guy basically says, hey, it's okay if you do everything that Justin Gibbony says just as long as it's not like in an official church capacity because we gotta maintain the spirituality of the church and all this kind of thing.
So there's really no debate here because all Justin has to say is, well, you know, okay, we do it as individuals, but not as a church, fine. Because individuals make up the church, who cares? And then there's no debate.
But Justin, you know, he's a little attorney, he's a fighter, so maybe we'll get some good stuff. My prediction is that Justin is gonna be very direct and very forceful, he will push the issue, and this guy is probably gonna melt into a puddle of goo.
Now, let's see if I'm right. Hold on a second. I don't know what happened there. Okay, here we go.
He's like tiptoeing back to his chair. Well, I don't think that it's a stretch to say. Of all the debates that we're doing, this issue has caused more division, confusion, strife, and real hurt, at least in the American church, and just in the past few years.
Of course, there's a long legacy of hurt on these lines, but it seems to be especially poignant over the past three years.
So I wanna start Nobody is complaining about the increased polarization that we are seeing, and they're lamenting how we shouldn't be polarized, and I welcome the polarization, I really do. There's nothing more annoying, there's nothing more destructive than that squishy middle, lukewarm nonsense where people on the left and the right, they have real beliefs, but they're lying about those beliefs in order to go along to get along.
See, the more polarized we get, the less lying we're doing to each other about what we really believe, because when you think that abortion is a fundamental human right, and that people should support it, celebrate it, love it, that kind of thing, I don't want you to hide that from me.
I wanna know that you're a murderous psychopath. I wanna know that you're demon-oppressed. I wanna know that. And so I like the polarization because it makes things a lot clearer. Things aren't as gray as people say.
There's a great Billy Joel song where he talks about as he gets older, all he sees are shades of gray. It's not black and white anymore. And that's what a lot of pagans think, that wisdom is that everything's shades of gray.
No, it's not. No, it's not. Everything's not shades of gray. It's a great song, but it's a stupid message. Billy Joel's not, I mean, obviously he doesn't have the right worldview. We get that. No, some things are very easily black and white, and you can easily see the problems with them and what's good and what's evil and stuff like that.
Don't fall for this nonsense that everything's nuanced, everything's shades of gray. Look, I like nuance as much as the next guy, but some things are good and some things are evil, and we know that.
A little bit higher level with you, Justin, and I'm gonna drill down on some things that both of you said. Brian talked, and I think it was your sixth point in your way forward about charity among things in which we disagree.
So my question What's your question? Let's go. Is how elastic should the church be on some of these issues of race and injustice? Another way to say it is where do we distinguish in the terms of race and justice between primary issues that we should as a church not give on and secondary issues where we should be able to disagree, even seriously disagree, but worship together and move forward in the same church?
That's a great question.
That's a good question. I would say, obviously, human dignity is a primary issue, and dealing with it should be a primary issue and should be something that we really focus in on and make a priority. That's the first thing I would say.
Obviously, I wanna agree with you. The first thing we should do is preach the gospel. I don't disagree with that at all. I understand the difference between the church proper as an institution and the individuals.
I'm talking more so about the individuals.
So he literally just did what I said is all he had to do. I mean, this is the level of conservative that we offer when we're Gospel Coalition, right? His entire argument has just been sidestepped, and there's no disagreement here.
All there is is agreement. And again, we've noticed this over the course of doing these Good Faith Debate reviews that that's what it's really for is to pretend like we all agree on everything when we, of course, 100 do not agree on anything, almost.
And it's like, so I haven't watched this yet. I'm doing this live with you. We're hearing this for the first time. All I said, all he had to do is say, oh, yeah, yeah, I totally understand the church is an institution versus individuals.
I'm talking to individuals. I'm talking to individuals. You see, it's preposterous to say that I'm talking about the church. This is egregious, outrageous. That's a battle line. You rise as a consumer.
He did, I mean, he saw instantly, he saw the conservative's presentation the exact same way I saw it. Justin Gibney is no fool. That's the thing. I mean, you hear me making fun of what he's like, and obviously I think that he's a shyster, but there's a very big difference between being a shyster and being a fool.
He's no fool. He knows exactly what he's doing. He saw the conservative's presentation, the exact same way I did, and he knew that there was no disagreement. He could just, all he had to do is say, well, yeah, I'm talking the same thing you're talking about, and then everything that he said was completely legitimized.
This is what Gospel Coalition gives us, right? We've got these big issues, and Gospel Coalition gives us garbage, nothing but a steady diet of garbage. Gospel Coalition is, I was gonna say irredeemable, but I don't believe that anything's irredeemable.
Gospel Coalition is just so far gone that nobody should pay them any attention on anything like this, nothing. And you might argue, well, A .D., you're paying them attention. Well, that's true. I'm doing it from an educational standpoint and things like that, but I gotta be honest.
My days of reviewing Gospel Coalition content are definitely numbered. I still think there's value in it. I still get emails all the time. What's the big problem with Gospel Coalition? People are still confused, and so I'm still going to do it for the time being, but there is an expiration date on this kind of content for the old A .D. Robles YouTube channel.
There's no question about it. Let's let Jackie Childs continue his presentation.
It's very important for us not to create false dichotomies there either, right? To make sure that we can't just look at the world and say what they're doing wrong. There's stuff that we have to handle internally that's in the church and that has come out of the church and that the world actually had to make corrections on parts of the church in that regard.
So of course, we have first order issues. We all have to be charitable. I mentioned charity too. I think that's an important part of what we do.
I've not done this ever in this series yet. I'm going to rewind because it sounded like that guy just said that the world needs to correct the church in some areas, and I gotta be honest, I've gotta hear that.
I'm kinda having some fun with this, and I wanna hear this in its complete context because it just sounded like he said that the world needs to correct the church in many areas.
Even seriously disagree, but worship together and move forward in the same church.
That's a good question. I would say obviously human dignity is a primary issue and dealing with it should be a primary issue and should be something that we really focus in on and make a priority. That's the first thing I would say.
I'm talking more so about the individuals, but it's very important for us not to create false dichotomies there either, to make sure that we can't just look at the world and say what they're doing wrong.
There's stuff that we have to handle internally that's in the church and that has come out of the church and that the world actually had to make corrections on parts of the church in that regard. So of course, we have first order issues.
We all have to be charitable. I mentioned charity too. I think that's an important part of what we do. We have to be peacemakers, but let's not turn human dignity, which is tied to this racial conversation into a second order issue.
That's good.
That's helpful. Yeah, that brother just said that, and I mean brother in the colloquial sense. Let me just make that clear. That guy just said that there's been issues that the world needs to come into the church and correct the church.
You see, and let's not get it twisted. The world is the pagan system. It's the satanic system. And what this guy just said is the world needs to actually come into the church and correct the church because the world is actually the standard.
If you remember in his opening presentation, I said that he was low key kind of setting up a system where the world gets to judge the church. The world is the standard. If the church doesn't measure up to what the world is doing, that was the kind of implied argument he was making in the beginning.
And now this dude just outright and said, this shyster just came in and said outright that the world needs to judge the church. You see, the church isn't meeting up to the world standard, and therefore the church needs to reform.
Therefore the church needs to not, see the church is not fundamentally salt and light. No, no, no. That's actually not correct. Sometimes the world is salt and light, you see. The church of Jesus Christ sometimes needs to look into the world as the light.
It's not that Jesus is the light of the world. Sometimes the world is the light, and you need to follow what the world is doing. See, they're advanced on this issue of human dignity. And by the way, that word human dignity, that's a loaded term that this conservative right here needs to jump all over.
What do you mean by human dignity? Because of course I want to agree with you. Human dignity, first order issue, we're all made in the image of God, right? Therefore, according to the scripture, what that actually means is that we treat others the way we would want to be treated.
We treat them according to the law of God. The six commandments, right? So the six of the 10, right? We have the first four about God, how we relate to God, and then the next six is about how we relate to each other.
We treat everybody without partiality, and that's what it means. That's what I would agree with you as far as human dignity. But the problem is that we've got this issue where people are being very shy, shysters like you.
Of course, he wouldn't say that because he's winsome, and that's fine, that's fine. You don't have to say it the way I just said it. Unfortunately, shysters like you play fast and loose with language, and the thing is, you might mean, when you say human dignity, you might mean black people, they need as much as the white people.
Like if the white people got more than the black people, then we need to get more than the black people so they have as much as the white people. And by any means necessary, any means necessary. Confiscation, humiliation, registration, degradation, yeah, and that stuff I can't agree with you.
And so you're gonna turn all this Marxist nonsense into first order issues for the church. See, that's where I'd have to draw the line and I have to call you out. So you gotta watch out for the way all this is played out, and this guy's gotta jump on that.
What do you mean by human dignity? Because I wanna agree, but I'm not sure if I do because there are too many people out there that are using terms like this as weasel words. And that's what shysters do.
They have these weasel words that nobody would want to come out and say, I disagree with human dignity. But you see, I will do it if you define it a certain way. I'm not into that, human dignity. No, absolutely not.
If you mean by human dignity, everybody must have the same resources and equal money and equal income and equal wealth and all this kind of stuff. And if they don't, then that's an injustice. Now, we need to correct.
That violates your rights as a consumer. Oh, man, how much you wanna bet that this dude over here is not gonna jump all over that?
Brian, you make the clear distinction when you were talking between what the individual's called to versus the institution of the church. And you said, and I'm gonna paraphrase you, I'm not gonna quote you specifically, it would be different if we were in, say, Nazi Germany or slavery.
How is that different? Yeah, so this is an interesting question. So he's asked, first of all, I did notice, Mr. Moderator, that you're asking him a question that kinda has already been addressed. You're piggybacking on, see, we all agree here.
We all agree. And he's saying it would be different if we were in Nazi Germany or slavery or whatever. This is a good question, because I was interested to hear him expand on that as well, because what would be the difference, right?
It doesn't sound like it's an actual fundamental difference or a principled difference. It sounds like it's just, you're making a judgment call of what the degree is, right? Like what the degree of, Nazis, see, that's really bad.
That's like the ultimate. Slavery is almost as bad as the Nazis, obviously. We all know this, because we all went to public school here, right? So Nazis are the worst, slavery is the second worst, almost as much as the Nazis, not quite, because the Nazis, nothing could ever top the Nazis.
Of course, we all know this. So it just sounds like if it's really bad, then the church can get busy. But if it's only a little bit bad, the church can't get, by the way, it is already this bad, because I'm not an idiot.
And I know that the abortion issue here, the amount of people killed by abortion is far worse than both slavery and the Nazis. It's far worse. We're already there. We're already there. But these guys will lie to you and say peace, peace, when there is no peace.
I mean, we know why the Scheisser's doing it, obviously. It's a grift for him. He makes money off this. But for this guy, I don't know what his deal is. He just doesn't like to fight. I mean, he sure doesn't look like he likes to fight.
He doesn't wanna take a stand. He's like, oh, we're not as bad as the Nazis, even though, of course, we killed way more people than the Nazis. We're already there, guys. We're already there. I said on Twitter the other day that, or somebody said on Twitter the other day that I was being justified more every day a year ago I said we need to excommunicate those who are openly Democrat in the church.
And my argument then was that we're already past the point of it's so evil, that party is so evil, that no Christian that is truly regenerate could support that platform. There's no redeeming qualities to it.
I said we were already there. And you see, the thing is, most Christians agree with my basic premise that eventually a party can get to the point of no return where there's no redeeming qualities and stuff like that.
But, you see, people think I'm early on judging the Democratic Party that way. Because all you gotta do is say Nazis. Can someone be a Nazi and be a Christian? Well, of course not. I mean, they're already past the point of no return.
And I'm saying the Democrats are already there. There is no redeeming quality to the Democratic Party platform, none, none. Anyway, let's see what this, I'm gonna be nice.
Let's see what this guy has to say. Well, I think you, so Galatians 6, as you have opportunity, I think based on where we're gonna be situated historically, we're gonna have unique opportunities to love our neighbors, right?
I think it's important to, in one sense, maybe deescalate some of the application just because it's important we appreciate it. We are, this is not 1855, you know? That doesn't mean there's not gonna be any parallels or no connections that we might be thinking through in terms of how do we honor human dignity.
But the opportunities that we have or that we might encourage the church as a collective to respond to, I think you're gonna, I wanna give churches maybe greater freedom to bind the consciences more, the more clear and vivid those opportunities are.
So to the point that There will never be, this man, let me just explain something to you about people like this, okay? This man will never encounter a situation where it'll be valid for Christians as an institution to do the work, to get busy, to get to work.
He will never encounter anything because if he hasn't encountered it already, he's basically, his personality is to always be like, oh, well, you know, it's not that bad. It's not, we're not, we're not Nazis after all.
We're not slaves. We're just in slave times. And it's like, this guy, there will never be a fight that will come to this man, no matter how obvious you should fight it, that he'll be willing to take that next step.
This is all posturing. This is all, there will never be a situation. He's never gonna wake up until he realizes that he's wrong. He's taken the wrong approach to this, right? All these people, I remember John Lehman was like, there may come a time when we have to do, you know, we have to disobey the government.
This was during COVID, right? There may come a time where we'll have to disobey the government, but it's not now, I hesitate. He said something stupid like that. And it's like, no, Jonathan, this is all a ruse.
There's never gonna, if you don't, if you haven't said no to the government when they told you to shut down your church because we say so, then there will never be anything that you'll ever, ever, that'll ever reach the level that you have to actually disobey the government.
The worship of God is the most important thing. And if you said, whatever government, we'll do it. Oh, by the way, we'll go to the Black Lives Matter rally. I mean, we'll shut down our church, but we'll go to the Black Lives Matter rally, which is something that Jonathan Lehman promoted.
I don't know if he actually did it. I don't remember if he was actually there, but he promoted doing that. The church is shut down. Black Lives Matter rally is going. Let's just do it. Let's just go. So yeah, this is all a ruse.
This is all posturing. This is all nonsense. There's never gonna be, he likes to say it because he knows that he can't just say, sit out of everything because, you know, there's Nazis after all in slavery.
But it's all a ruse. It's all posturing. It's all just to get you to not do anything right now, which is what Gospel Coalition wants from their conservatives. Gospel Coalition in a nutshell has a twofold purpose.
Here we go. This is what it is. If you're progressive minded, if you're liberal minded, they want you to get to work. The kingdom of God is at hand as far as they're concerned. If you're liberal minded, right?
If you're conservative minded, they want you to lay your weapons down, lest you be an idolater. That's the role of Gospel Coalition. That's their desire. We're gonna end this video on that note. Gospel Coalition's goal is twofold.
If you're a liberal, they want to empower you to get busy subverting everything as much as you can. If you're a conservative, they want you to sit down, shut up. Otherwise you'll be guilty of sin. I hope you found this video helpful.
God bless.