April 5, 2018 Show with Darrell Bernard Harrison and Christopher Harris on “Racism in America: Are Modern Day Social Justice Warriors Diminishing Or Perpetuating the Sin of Bigotry?”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this fifth day of April 2018.

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I'm so delighted about today's program. It will be a controversial program. It may even get a number of my listeners angry with me and perhaps even some of my friends will be angry with me as a result of today's program, but I have to follow the truth where I believe it leads me and today we have two guests on the program, one per hour, who are both going to be addressing the same theme.

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The theme today is racism in America, are modern day social justice warriors diminishing or perpetuating the sin of bigotry?

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My two guests who will be discussing this topic today, starting off with the first hour,

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Darrell B. Harrison, and then the second hour we will have as our guest, Christopher Harris, and he is the founder of Unhyphenated America, but let me first introduce our first guest,

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Darrell Harrison. He is lead host of the Just Thinking podcast and he is a veteran of the

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United States Army where he served six years as a member of the United States Army Intelligence Security Command.

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He is also a fellow of the Black Theology and Leadership Institute, otherwise known as BTLI, of Princeton Theological Seminary in Princeton, New Jersey.

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He is an alumni of the Theology and Ministry program at Princeton Theological Seminary, an alum of the

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Liberty University where he majored in psychology with a specialization in Christian counseling, and an alum of the

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Institute for Expository Preaching, which is a ministry of Dr.

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Stephen Lawson, who we've had on this program several times. He is the first African American to be ordained a deacon in the nearly 200 year history of First Baptist Church of Covington, Georgia, where he attended from July 2009 to July of 2015, and he is currently a member of the

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Rockdale Community Church in Conyers, Georgia, which is a Reformed Baptist congregation. He is an expository

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Bible teacher with a passion for helping Christians understand what they believe and why they believe it, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Radio, Darrell B.

03:52

Harrison. Well, good afternoon, Chris. It is really a privilege to finally be on your program with you today.

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I appreciate you having me on. Yes, in fact, two people very close in time to one another strongly urged me to have you as a guest on the program, the first being

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Tom Askell, who is president of Founders Ministries, and the other is

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Dwayne Atkinson, the host of The Bar podcast. And so I'm glad that I finally have you on the program, and this is, as I said, a controversial issue that divides the body of Christ, even divides those who would be described as racial and ethnic minorities, because it'd be a racist statement in itself to say that all blacks think alike, and they certainly don't.

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But let's, before we go into any of this, let's hear about your own personal testimony.

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You are a first -time guest, and I typically, whenever possible, when I have the time to do so,

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I have our first -time guests give a summary of how they were raised religiously, if at all, and what providential circumstances that our sovereign

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Lord used to draw you to faith in Him, and then eventually even into Reformed theology.

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Yeah, I have, going back to my earliest memories of being in church, like many professing

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Christians, I'm no different, you know, most of us would probably profess to, or confess to growing up in a

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Christian home, quote -unquote, but my upbringing in church, in the black church tradition, was somewhat interesting, because the earliest memories

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I have of going to church was to a house church. I'm a native of Atlanta, and I live here, but I remember going to a little house church on a little narrow street on the southeast side of Atlanta.

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It was literally a house church that they had sort of retrofitted and made into a church building.

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They'd knock down some walls and put some pews in, but looking back on it now, it was really sort of a co -mingling of a little bit of Catholicism with a little bit of black

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Pentecostalism, if you can imagine. Wow, that is a combination of opposites, it seems, although there are a lot, it might surprise people to hear this, but there are a lot of connections between Roman Catholicism and Pentecostalism and Charismatic theologies, because of the focus on the miraculous, it's just that the

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Roman Catholic Church is typically far more sedated in the way that it approaches those things.

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Right, a great point, Chris, and with me, the church that I belonged to at the time was pastored, quote -unquote, by a female, by a woman, who went by the title, her office title was

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Archbishop, so she would even wear the garb of, she actually looked quite

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Pope -like, if I could use that term, in her attire on Sundays, and you know, so I grew up in that kind of environment.

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The services were, you know, as most Pentecostal Charismatic services are, very lengthy, very emotion -driven, but I never got caught up in that for some reason.

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I don't know if because I'm a middle child, and middle children are mostly sort of very matter -of -fact and take things for what they are, but you know, when

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I grew up, going through high school, and after high school I entered into the military, still stayed at that church for most of my young life, but as I got into my teens, we transitioned out of that church into another local church in our neighborhood that was more of a sort of missionary

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Baptist tradition, and it was there that it occurred to me for the first time that I wasn't learning anything about God.

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God hit me with that awareness just one Sunday out of the blue, and I ended up leaving that church and ended up joining

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First Baptist Church of Atlanta, where Dr. Charles Stanley is still the senior pastor.

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Right. And I was at FBA for 23 years, and it was under FBA, although they're more

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Arminian in their soteriology, it was at FBA, though, that I came to the awareness that you can be a student of the

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Bible and not just a reader. It was at FBA that I first was exposed to a non -KJV translation of the

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Bible. So Dr. Stanley, still to this day, he reads Orari, NASB, and I, you know, when

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I first got there, I was like, hey, whatever Bible he's reading from, I want that translation because I can understand what he's saying.

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Now, I just found the KJV to be very difficult to digest. I still use the

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NASB today, only I use a German author NASB, but it was there at FBA that I came to know

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Christ, came to an awareness that I was a sinner, that the way to salvation that I had been raised was not biblical.

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You don't get saved by going to church. You don't get saved by putting your name on a roll.

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You don't get saved by, as the black church tradition holds, by opening the doors of the church and you walking down an aisle.

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You know, so I came out of that, of an understanding that salvation was synergistic to an awareness that it was monergistic, that in my salvation, it was

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God who drew me. I did not choose God. I did not, in my own strength or ability or willingness, come to Him.

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He drew me to Him. And I think it was understanding that monergistic soteriology that sort of drew me into Reformed theology, because two things that Reformed theology emphasizes are two doctrinal elements that I've never been taught or was exposed to at all.

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Number one, that you're justified by faith. Faith alone, okay?

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Number two, it would be that you have nothing to do with respect to your works making you right with God.

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So there's a justification by faith alone, and yet your works have absolutely nothing to do with that.

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That kind of drew me into looking deeper into Reformed theology and understanding that the doctrine of election, that God actually chooses, that Christianity is exclusive, as much as it may be inclusive, it is also exclusive, that Christ did not die in a general sense for everyone, that He has chosen those who will believe in Him.

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And those are some tough doctrines, I understand, for some people to accept, but in reading folks and listening to folks like R .C.

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Sproul, John MacArthur, John Piper, and one thing

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Reformed theology has helped me understand that it forces you to study not only theology, but it forces you to read church history.

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It forces you to read systematic theology. It forces you to read the creeds and the councils and the writings of the early church fathers.

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It forces you to have an intellectual paradigm of biblical theology, not just going by the traditions that you were taught or your personal experiences.

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So with respect to Reformed theology, that would be the doorway that God allowed me to walk through, particularly with respect to what is known as the doctrines of grace, and that you're being justified by faith, and it was the work of Christ that saves, and not your own efforts.

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Praise God. In fact, I wish I could remember his last name. I was going to ask you if you were at the church where Charles Stanley pastors, simultaneously with a man that I know, but I haven't seen him in years, and I forgot his last name.

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He was the pastor of the Syosset Baptist Church here on Long Island, where my friend,

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Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries had his very first debate with a Muslim.

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I arranged this debate there between Dr. White and Hamza Abdul Malik, a former professing

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Christian who converted to Islam. But the pastor there, and I can't remember his last name.

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I'll get back to you later with that, but he was a member of that church where Charles Stanley pastors, and he was a full -blown

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Calvinist, unlike Dr. Stanley. Right. And he was given the opportunity once to preach there, and he preached on unconditional election, and apparently the tape room, that's what they used back in those days, so the old -fashioned cassette tapes, was so swarmed with people that it drew the attention of Dr.

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Stanley when he returned from whatever trip he was on, and he never permitted my friend to preach from the pulpit again.

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Wow. Wow. I'm not surprised, though.

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I mean, they're strictly Armenian in their superiority, so yeah,

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I'm not surprised. Oh, and even anti -Calvinist, even though I remember somebody years ago gave me a tape.

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On one side, it had Dr. Stanley preaching on election, and on the other side, it had

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Dr. Stanley preaching on election, taking a polar opposite view.

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I mean, I don't know if he was consciously exegeting it like a Calvinist on the one sermon, but it was very strange to hear the same person preaching two different messages with two different theologies on the same text.

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Interesting. That's interesting. Yeah, that was a long time ago. That was back in the late 80s, perhaps.

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Like you said, back in the days of tapes. Yes, right. Well, tell us about the

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Just Thinking podcast. Yeah, so the Just Thinking podcast is a podcast that my brother in Christ, Virgil Walker, and I launched back in,

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I think it was early December of 2017. So it's a very young podcast, very young ministry still.

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It's sort of the brainchild of Dwayne Atkinson, who you mentioned earlier, and Dwayne brought myself and Virgil Walker together, having this idea that he and I might mesh well together from a podcast standpoint.

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And we've been doing the podcast now for about five months, and to this day, Virgil and I have never met in person.

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So when you listen to the podcast, a lot of the feedback that we get from our listeners is that he and I have a really nice flow, they say, together.

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But the podcast is really just an extension of my blog, which goes by the same name, Just Thinking, for myself.

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So the podcast is where we have a platform to discuss verbally a lot of the topics and themes that I address on my blog, and then give listeners an opportunity to hear us sort of delve into more of a deeper discourse about some of those subjects and themes, but always with the gospel as the center.

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So folks can get to my blog at justthinking .me, and then from the blog, if you'll just look to the right -hand side of the homepage, you'll see a link where you can click on and get to my podcast, which is available on both

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Apple and Android devices. You just search for Just Thinking, and you'll see the black and white logo with the big

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JT on it. So that's the background on how the blog got started. Great, and we'll announce that information later on as well.

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Well, the theme that we have today, as I already announced, is racism in America. Are modern -day social justice warriors diminishing or perpetuating the sin of bigotry?

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Let me ask you to start our discussion on this, about your own attitude toward the racism that you have witnessed and experienced throughout your life, either as somebody who has been a victim in some way of this, or just as an observer.

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And also, if your ideology on this issue, or your perspective on this issue, has gone through a journey in and of itself, or have you just maintained a similar stance or an exact same stance that you've always had on the sin of racism?

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Yeah, I think your listeners may be surprised here, Chris, to learn that at least

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I am one black person speaking only for myself, can't speak for anyone else, but I'm one black person who has never experienced what is called racism, what is referred to as racism, not to my knowledge.

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And it may be interesting also for folks to know that I think my views on racism, which

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I'll get into a little bit deeper here, were formed and shaped out of my poverty growing up.

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I grew up materially poor in the 70s, and my family didn't have a lot of the opportunities or material possessions that you may want to have in life, but one thing

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I did have was a solid spiritual upbringing. My parents were people who worked extremely hard.

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My mother wore the spiritual pants in the family, so my father at times was working two or three jobs.

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I don't have many memories of my father being at home until he got older, but in my youth, he was always working.

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My mother would make sure that we were in church on Sundays, so you combine as, shall we say, as questionable as the theology was that I was exposed to on Sundays, the work ethic that my parents demonstrated for me is that they did not use their poverty as an excuse.

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They went to work. They, as the saying goes, they played the cards that they were dealt, and I learned from that.

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You know, so I myself am someone who doesn't make excuses. I don't care what the situation is.

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I believe in a sovereign God who, according to Ecclesiastes 7 .14,

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ordains the days of adversity as well as ordaining the days of prosperity, so I see

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God as sovereign over both situations. I want to add one caveat as well. You already know this,

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Chris, but I want to let everyone know who may be listening that I do not subscribe to the notion of race.

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I will use the term race and racism for the sake of the conversation that we're having here, but I do not subscribe to the notion of race.

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I think biblically, it is a mirage. Yeah, we are all one race. Right, we are all one race.

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A text that I like to do, one of the texts that I like to fall back on is in Acts 17 .26, which states that God made from one blood every nation, and that word nation is the word ethnos, every ethnicity.

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So when you look at it from a theological standpoint, a biblical standpoint, there is no such thing as race.

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God creates ethnicities. He does not create races. Race, racism, and any derivative of that word,

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I'm convinced by both theology and science that is a social construct.

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It is a very recent social construct that the Church has blindly bought into and has now created a cottage industry out of.

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So whatever you and I discuss here today and whatever views I express on the theme of today's topic,

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I need everyone to know that that is discussed with the caveat that I personally do not believe in such a thing as race.

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So I just want to get that out there. Yes, and in fact, if anybody would like to listen to a program that I conducted, an interview

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I conducted with Charles Ware on one race, one blood, a biblical answer to racism, you could go to my website,

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IronSharpensIronRadio .com. IronSharpensIronRadio .com, and then click on the archived programs, past programs podcast or past shows podcast.

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And if you type in the search engine, one race, one blood, or Charles Ware, W -A -R -E, you will get the mp3 that you can to listen to that program to that interview.

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Now, having said what you said, obviously, there are many, many people in this country who, by virtue of the color of their skin, have been treated with grotesque hatred, bigotry, and abuse, and persecution, and so on.

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In fact, there are uncertain people alive today, of course, who even may have been grotesquely tortured, and physically abused, and abused in many other ways during the civil rights movement in the 50s and 60s, especially when the

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Ku Klux Klan was alive and well, and routinely brutalizing, and lynching, and murdering, and torturing, and persecuting racial minorities, especially those of black skin, and getting away with it very often.

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So, not only do you have those that either personally experienced or witnessed those things, and even have family members who lost their lives as a result of those things, but even going up to the 21st century, as much as we may think liberals and leftists are going way overboard in their opposition to the police force in major cities all over this country, there have been genuinely truthful accounts of people of darker skins who have been treated unlawfully and with brutality by police, and so on.

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So, in light of that, what is your response to what I just said in regard to the topic at hand?

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Yeah, I think a mistake a lot of people make is that when it comes to this issue of racism, their timeline with respect to its origins is much too recent.

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They normally go back, they sort of default back to the 60s in the civil rights era, or at worst, they may default back to the 1860s in the civil war era, but what they need to do really is go back probably hundreds of years before that.

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And when I mean hundreds of years, I'm not talking about 1609 when the first African slaves landed on this continent.

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I'm not talking about 1609. I'm talking about even further back than that, because if we're talking about racism, okay, then it stands to reason there's more than one race, okay?

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And if there's more than one race, then we should not limit racism as being only directed from a white person to a black person.

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That is not the only type of racism that exists or has ever existed. There's also what

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I call intra -race racism. So what we default to in America is extra -race racism, meaning there's an attitude of bigotry or sinful prejudice that originates within, that is from a white person targeted towards a black person.

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But if you really want to get to the origins and genesis of racism, you really need to go back to and accept the fact there's also black -on -black racism.

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I come from a tribe of people, if you really would trace my roots back to their origins, a tribe called the

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Balanta people who hail out of West Africa, I'm sorry, West Ghana in Africa, who sold their own people into slavery.

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Now, this was hundreds of years before any white European ever stepped foot on the continent of Africa.

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So I bring that up because our paradigm of racism in this country is too contemporary, number one, and then number two, it's too narrow from its definition.

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Never think that racism is limited to or exclusive to white -on -black racism.

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There's also black -on -white racism and black -on -black racism. There's also an ideological type of black -on -black racism in that someone who holds to a conservative, a more conservative perspective on race, like myself, is not accepted within the broader, quote -unquote, black community because I don't toe that same victimhood, social justice warrior, activist

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Christianity line. I don't toe that line. So for someone like me, it is very difficult to be accepted within the tribalist collective of black

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Americans, believe it or not. So there's even, with respect to racism, number one, it's not just ethnic, it's not just melanin -based, it's not just skin color -based, it's ideological as well.

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So what we have to do in America is to not start your timeline at the 1960s, not even the 1860s, not even the 1600s.

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We need to go way back hundreds of years because if we're going to be intellectually honest about this and call racism what it is, we need to go back to his earliest human origins where history attests to the fact that even black

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Africans didn't treat their own people well. Right. So let's just be honest about that.

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Yes, and in fact, Maya Angelou, who was no conservative, she told the story

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I can vividly remember of black churches in the South that had a hairbrush hanging from a string at the door of the church and with a sign saying, if you cannot run this brush through your hair, do not enter, or something of that nature.

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And this is a black church. Right. And Maya Angelou was obviously very well known for her liberal ideology in many ways, and so this was not coming from the mouth of some conservative who was trying to broaden the spectrum of the source of racism.

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She was just relating to something that was true. Right. And in fact, we are going to go to our first break right now, and if anybody would like to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Don't go away.

29:19

Right after these messages, we'll be back with more of Darrell B. Harrison, God willing, so don't go away.

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31:01

Welcome back. If you've just tuned us in, our guest today for the first hour on Iron Trepans Iron Radio is

31:07

Daryl B. Harrison. He is the lead host of Just Thinking, which is a podcast you can hear and I highly recommend you listen to by going to the

31:23

Just Thinking podcast website, which is...

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Actually, I just got led by clicking that to the bar that I just mentioned before, hosted by Dwayne Atkinson.

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What is your website again for Just Thinking? Yeah, so Just Thinking, you can get to the website at justthinking .me,

31:42

justthinking .me. Justthinking .me. And we are discussing for both hours with two different guests, racism in America, our modern day social justice warriors, diminishing or perpetuating the sin of bigotry.

31:56

And let me go to, before we run out of time, let me also repeat our email address. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

32:07

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

32:20

USA. And please only remain anonymous if your sin involves a personal and private matter.

32:26

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. And I could readily see a topic like this lending itself to people wanting to remain anonymous.

32:35

People today are very fearful of being accused of racism, whether it is a legitimate accusation or not.

32:42

And so I could understand if some of you feel awkward and want to ask anonymously.

32:47

But we have Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. He's got quite a long email here, so I may have to break this up in parts.

32:56

He asks, I'm wondering if Pastor Harrison could comment on two particular rhetorical strategies that have been used with increasing frequency in discussions of race in America.

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The first is the notion that blacks cannot be racist because racism requires power, and presumably blacks have no power in contemporary society.

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And I'll get to the second after you respond to that one. Yeah, I appreciate that question.

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I don't subscribe to that notion whatsoever. Racism, again,

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I kind of put that in air quotes. Racism is an attitude, okay? It is a mindset.

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It has its impetus in the heart, not in some structure or institution.

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And we have to define racism in those terms of origin, number one. You know,

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I based that on texts like Mark, chapter 7, where Jesus says that that which proceeds out of the man, that that is what defiles the man, okay?

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That is what defiles us is what's already in us. So racism is, first of all, an attitude.

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It is a sinful attitude. And I want to make that clear, sort of put that caveat to it. It is a sinful attitude because not all prejudices are sinful.

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We need to make that clear. But racism, as we're defining it today, is a sinful attitude whose impetus is in a characteristic, namely the color of someone's skin, which

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God in his sovereignty chose to give someone. So no, racism isn't about power structure.

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Everybody can harbor racist attitudes because everyone's heart is sinful by nature.

34:47

So racism is an attitude first before it's anything else. Yeah, and the reason why that ideology is ridiculous, one of the reasons, is because you have many circumstances, especially in the 21st century, where you have

35:02

Black people in positions of wealth and power and authority, who have interaction with poor white people.

35:12

You know, you have politicians and police officers and wealthy Black executives and corporation owners and presidents who have white employees under them.

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You know, this is not the deep South in the 19th century or earlier. This is a very new era that we're in.

35:35

And so therefore, what do you do when a president of a corporation who happens to be

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Black may be demeaning a white employee who he has the power to fire or hire or do whatever he legally desires to do?

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And the other thing is, if you're a Christian, and there are a lot of Christians who make this claim, or at least professing

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Christians, the reason why it's absurd is because the racism that you hear more about than anything else in the

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New Testament is the sin of racism that Jews were guilty of harboring towards Gentiles.

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And the Jews were a persecuted minority who were abused and tormented and persecuted by the

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Gentiles for centuries and enslaved by them, etc. And yet, you have the

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Apostle Paul rebuking Peter for this sin. And it was a very serious sin indeed, and still is a serious sin.

36:41

But this whole notion of requirement of power is completely unbiblical, isn't it?

36:47

Absolutely it is. And again, this may shock some folks, but if you want to talk about racist, vitriolic attitudes and behavior,

36:58

I've experienced that more so from Black people than white people. You know, the most heated feedback

37:08

I've received from a blog article that I may have written or a podcast topic that I may have addressed have been from Black people.

37:20

I get the disapproval, the rejection, the hatred really is what it is.

37:29

It's from Black people, not from white people. So never believe that because the narrative sort of makes white people the villain and Black people the victim.

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Never think that a Black person, just because they're Black, cannot have just as hateful an attitude towards white people as a white person could towards a

37:55

Black person. Never think that. Right. And of course, as Votie Baucom reminded me when

38:03

I was interviewing him in Atlanta, Georgia at the G3 conference, as he reminded me, racism, and in fact you also mentioned this prior to the, or at the beginning of the program, racism is not just a

38:17

Black and white issue. Right. I mean, what about the Blacks in the inner city who hate with a passion the

38:26

Asians that have come into their community and established businesses and so on, and they believe that those

38:31

Asians have robbed them of jobs and things like that. I mean, this goes on and on.

38:37

In fact, my mother -in -law, my late mother -in -law, she was born and raised in Puerto Rico, and she had a problem with bigotry against Mexicans and South and Central Americans.

38:55

And I have to just briefly tell you a story. For Mother's Day, I bought her a 36 -inch color

39:03

TV. This was before flat screen TVs were very inexpensive. And I paid for a year's worth of cable vision for her.

39:11

And she called me up at work, angry with me, asking me why I let a Mexican in her house.

39:18

And I was like, what are you talking about? And she said, the man from cable vision, he's a Mexican. I threw him out because I was afraid he was going to rob me.

39:25

Now, so you have a Latina having very serious racial issues or bigoted issues with those of Mexican background.

39:37

And then when I told an El Salvadorian Christian minister about this, he said, yes,

39:43

I'm from El Salvador, and we distrust Puerto Ricans. So yeah, there you have it.

39:49

Yeah. So again, you know, racism is a hard problem. And it's just ridiculous to think that a sinful bias, a sinful prejudice is exclusive to one ethnic group.

40:05

Sin doesn't work like that, okay? Sin isn't a sort of buffet where you can select one a la carte item and not select another.

40:16

No, we're all sinners. Everyone's a sinner. And everyone who has the capacity to sin, and we all do, has the ability to commit that sin.

40:26

So racism isn't, you know, blacks aren't excluded from that. We can be just as racist as the next person.

40:34

Yeah, and we are, and we are. Right. And of course, even to taking the conversation into a much more disgustingly brutal area, when you consider the history of violence and brutality between the different Asian cultures, you know, it's nightmarish.

40:53

So even within the Asian culture, you have bigotry of Koreans against Chinese and Chinese against Koreans and Japanese against both of them.

41:02

You know, it's just, it goes on and on and on. Well, that was the case of Native American cultures as well.

41:08

Oh, yeah. Native Americans who hated one another based on their, you know, their tribal differences, their cultural differences, and things of that nature.

41:16

So, I mean, they killed off one another. You don't hear a lot about that, but that's a historical fact as well.

41:22

Yeah, and of course, that never legitimizes anything that those who happen to have white skin did to the

41:27

Native Americans that was unlawful or unbiblical. But it has been said, and I can't vouch for this with any kind of statistical accuracy or military background, but it has been said that if the

41:42

Native Americans were a united force, that the white man would never have been able to conquer them and establish

41:50

America. Yeah, and I can't quantify that either.

41:56

But, you know, the point being that it's been posited in our history books and, again, in more politically correct narratives in recent years, that the only violence the

42:09

Native American culture here on this soil has ever encountered was from Caucasians and Europeans.

42:18

So, and that's not true. They have inflicted upon themselves much violence over the years because of various cultural, tribal differences in the same way more contemporary societies have done the same thing.

42:33

And, of course, it would certainly, without question, have been infinitely more difficult for white

42:39

Europeans to settle here and to rob lands, quote -unquote, from Native Americans if the

42:46

Native Americans were a united force. Indeed, indeed. And so tell us about some of your reaction to things that are going on in society, things that have been going on for a long time, but in more recent histories you have riots in Baltimore and Chicago and Detroit and California and so on, usually over the death or brutality or even rightful restraint or self -defense of police officers.

43:27

Against those who happen to have black skin and you have these explosions of protest in the community in inner cities all over the country.

43:37

Tell us, what has your reaction been as you have watched these things on your television set or on your computer screen?

43:44

Yeah, I think the first thing that I have tried to do is to observe these occurrences as a

43:52

Christian because, you know, the Bible speaks to all of this.

43:58

And when something like that happens, when a black person is killed by a police officer,

44:08

I think the prudent thing to do is, number one, remind yourself that God is sovereign over every single event that happens on this planet.

44:20

As Dr. R .C. Sproul famously said, you know, there's not a maverick molecule out there that is operating apart from his sovereign will.

44:31

So even in instances of police -involved shootings, it's best to remind ourselves that God is sovereign, number one.

44:41

And then secondly, we should wait until all the facts come out. And we are not ever, and the

44:49

Gospel doesn't promise this anywhere, it doesn't infer or imply that there will ever be perfect justice in this world, in this life.

44:58

Second Peter 3 .13 reminds us that we are looking for a new heaven and a new earth where righteousness dwells, not in this earth.

45:11

And I think, to a large degree, that is what social justice activists want.

45:17

They want a society where justice is perfect. And theologically, that's just not going to happen.

45:24

You don't get perfection from imperfection. You don't get perfect behavior from imperfect beings.

45:32

And if there was perfect justice, we would all be dead. All of us. We would be dead in eternity right now.

45:37

So we would be dead. All of us would be dead. So what's happening is, the discourse over justice and fairness and equality, we're throwing out these terms, we're using this language, but nobody's defining the terms.

45:57

And if you don't define the terms, then you can't have a discourse within the proper context.

46:03

So what I try to do is redefine, recapture these terms through the context of what, how does the

46:11

Bible define justice? How does the Bible define righteousness? The Bible defines justice simply that when we, as a society, and then when those entities and authorities who govern us obey

46:28

God's laws, obey God's precepts, that's justice. When we disobey

46:35

His law and precepts, that's injustice. It's pretty simple. You know, this is not rocket science.

46:42

That's pretty simple. But what we want, what these social justice activist Christians want, is that they want perfect justice.

46:52

And you're not going to get that. That should be clear to any Christian, because fundamentally,

47:02

Christianity exists because God sent a Savior in the person of His Son to rescue us from our sinfulness.

47:12

Okay, so at the root of all violence is sin. And until sin is no more, violence will be no more.

47:21

But in instances of police -involved violence, we need to trust God, even in those cases where the civil magistrates, the legal process does not render the justice that the evidence or the situation allows.

47:42

We need to still trust God that one day all will be made right.

47:48

And you don't make things, you don't right or wrong by burning down your own communities, your own businesses, your own homes.

47:58

That doesn't even make sense. That doesn't even make any sense. That's just dumb. There's no other way to put it.

48:05

That's just stupid. Right. But responding to what you said, I think we have to be careful, though, not to have an attitude of indifference towards other people.

48:19

And it doesn't even have to be the issue of bigotry and racism. It could be a multitude of things where we say to them, in the comfort of our own lives, in our own nice homes, with our nice jobs and things, when we say to others, don't worry, in the sweet by and by, it will all be better.

48:37

And we do nothing to change or to attempt to bring change to a culture or society or community or country or nation.

48:47

We just sit back and say, because it's not our problem. And that does go on.

48:56

Like I said, it could even be something like somebody going through a crippling illness.

49:06

And it's one thing to say that God's will will be done and we must trust in his sovereignty over whether a person lives and has victory over an illness or dies or goes home to be with Christ for eternity.

49:22

And it's another thing to just say, well, don't worry about it. This place is just temporary.

49:27

And you get the sweet by and by. And it's one thing waiting for you. Yeah, I get that. I get that by and by response a lot.

49:33

And yes, I'm not suggesting that at all. For instance, if a police murders a black person without cause, the police officer's prosecuted and he's acquitted, that doesn't mean you don't file a civil lawsuit.

49:49

That doesn't mean you just dust your hands off and go about your business. Not at all. Christianity is also a practical worldview.

49:59

So, you know, in the context of Romans 13, you definitely look to any legal restitution means to ensure that justice is done.

50:17

But when it is not, you know, you don't respond with violence. That is not the way of the cross.

50:25

That's not the way of the cross. And we must remember at all times that we are obligated as Christians to reflect the image of God in all our behavior and in our responses to especially to injustice, especially so that is when

50:45

Jesus is most seen by the world in us is when we're treated unjustly.

50:50

And we need to remember that. And I completely forgot that Ted from Tuscaloosa, Alabama had a second question.

50:57

The second is the assertion that the only appropriate contributions that white folks have to such discussions are to listen to what blacks have to teach whites about race, to agree with the content of those lessons, and to offer apology and repentance for the racism.

51:14

And that shouldn't be isolated to blacks saying this. There are many, many, many, many, many, many multitudes of liberal or should

51:23

I say leftist whites and leftists of all skin complexions who are saying the same thing.

51:31

Yeah, I mean, I don't mean to sound flippant, but I'm a black person. I don't have anything to teach you about race.

51:38

I don't have a thing to teach you about race. Nothing. I don't have a thing to teach you.

51:44

And then the people who say that, what's being brought up in the question, people who say that, that's racist.

51:52

The comment itself is intrinsically racist. For people to tell someone like that, well, white person, you need to sit down.

52:00

You're black. You don't know where I'm coming from. You don't know what it's like to be black. Well, you know what? I'm black and I don't know what it's like to be black.

52:07

Because the whole premise that there is such a thing as being black presupposes that every black person has the same life experience.

52:16

And we don't. We don't. I don't even know, when I say I don't know what it's like to be black, that means that,

52:23

Chris, if you were black, I don't know what it's like to be in your shoes. I don't know what walk Chris Orenson has had as a black person.

52:31

All I can tell you is what it's like to be Daryl Harrison. That's all I can tell you.

52:36

Right. And in case anybody is wondering, Chris Orenson happens to be a white guy.

52:48

But we actually are out of time. This is one of the reasons I have a two hour show and usually only have one guest on a two hour show.

52:54

I'm looking forward to having you back very soon and very often, Daryl. And to remind our listeners, your podcast can be found at JustThinking .me,

53:04

JustThinking .me. Thank you so much for being our guest today, Daryl. And I hope that you come back soon. In fact,

53:09

I'm going to email you a calendar of available dates where you can join us once again on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

53:15

You got it, Chris. Thanks for having me again. All right. God bless. Well, I hope that everybody stays put and doesn't go away because we have another hour of this discussion.

53:26

As I mentioned before, the second hour is going to be with Christopher Harris of Unhyphenated America.

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So I hope you don't go away. We'll be right back, God willing, right after these messages from our sponsors.

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And we are going to be joined, God willing, in just about six minutes or so by our second guest, our second guest who will be carrying on the same topic today,

01:09:23

Christopher Harris, former congressional intern for long -serving U .S.

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Representative Joel Heffley in the Colorado Fifth District. He's been a guest and co -host on numerous radio shows in the

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United States and the United Kingdom, including appearances as a guest panelist on the

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Don Lemon Show on CNN and Megyn Kelly Show on Fox News, as well as appearing on the

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In fact, last night, he was on the Tucker Carlson Show, and I was very impressed by what he had to say and invited him on the program last night onto Iron Sherpa's Iron and heard a favorable response from him this morning.

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And we have him booked, and he'll be joining us, God willing, in a matter of minutes on the theme,

01:10:18

Racism in America, Our Modern -Day Social Justice Warriors Diminishing or Perpetuating the Sin of Bigotry.

01:10:25

But before we are joined by Christopher, I just have a couple of announcements to make.

01:10:31

The spirit of the age and the age of the spirit is the theme of the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology this year, being held in two locations, neither of which is

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Philadelphia. It is called the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology in tribute to the late Dr. James Montgomery Boyce, who had this conference, who conducted this conference in Philadelphia at the 10th

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Presbyterian Church for many years. Today it is being held at two different locations. The first, the

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First Christian Reform Church of Byron Center, Michigan. That's the location where this conference will be held from the 13th through the 15th.

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And then the second location, much closer to me, the one I am intending to attend, the

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Proclamation Presbyterian Church of Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania. That's from the 27th through the 29th of April.

01:11:16

The speakers include Daniel Aiken, Richard Gaffin, Daniel Hyde, Conrad Mbewe, the most powerful preacher on the planet

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Earth, as far as I'm concerned, pastor of Kabwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa. In fact, he just landed on American soil last night,

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Conrad Mbewe, and has agreed to be interviewed, God willing, next week on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

01:11:40

Also speaking at the conference are

01:11:46

Jonathan Master, David Murray, and Scott Oliphant, all of whom have been interviewed on this program, except for Scott Oliphant, and I'm really trying hard to get him on the program.

01:11:55

If you would like to register for this conference, go to AllianceNet .org, AllianceNet .org,

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click on Events, and then click on the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology, Spirit of the

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Age and the Age of the Spirit. Please, please, please tell the folks at the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals that you heard about these conferences from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Well we still have not yet been joined by Chris Harris. He was supposed to join us by phone three minutes ago.

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He still has not joined us. I am going to go to a brief station break and if he has not returned we will just have to conduct the remainder of the program without him.

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So if in fact he's joining us right now I believe and it is my honor and privilege to welcome you to Iron Trump and Zion for the very first time ever

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Christopher Harris. Hi Christopher, how are you? I'm doing great and once again

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I want to describe who our guest is today. Christopher Harris is a former congressional intern for longtime serving

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U .S. Representative Joel Hefley who served 10 terms in Colorado's 5th district and he has been a guest and co -host on numerous radio and television programs in the

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United States and the United Kingdom including appearances as a guest panelist on the Dom Lemon show on CNN, the

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Megyn Kelly show on Fox News as well as appearing on the Turkish radio and television network and executive director of the

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Unhyphenated America. I first learned of him last night when he was a guest on Tucker Carlson on Fox News and today we are continuing the discussion that we began in the first hour with Darrell B Harrison.

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Racism in America are modern -day social justice warriors diminishing or perpetuating the sin of bigotry.

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It's great to have you on the program for the first time Christopher and if you could as I typically do with first -time guests if you could give a summary of the religious upbringing of your youth if any and how our sovereign lord drew you to himself and saved you and then led you into the political realm if you could let us know about that.

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Okay that's an interesting story well uh I was raised in the church uh my mom uh took us to church and so we you know we we did the whole church thing you know

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I had to put on my Sunday best and uh I did all the Easter pageants and all that good stuff um but it really and you know my my parent you know

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I remember actually having an interesting discussion with my mom my mom asked said to me like when you're 14 or 15 or something like that you can decide whether or not you want to go to church anymore and I remember my dad did not go to church and a lot of it was because you know he was traveling my father was a former federal agent in the

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United States Air Force and so he was working a lot and so he did not want to go to church on his

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Sundays and I look at my dad and I said well dad doesn't have to go so I shouldn't have to go and so when

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I reached that particular age I said I don't want to go to church and my mom said you're still going.

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I was like yeah you kind of backed out on the deal that you made with me mom but um but yeah you know and I'm thankful that she did uh now you know

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I did like many people I did kind of stray away I guess because at that point

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I didn't really have a relationship with Jesus it was uh it was it was more of a cultural thing it was more of a habit than it was a personal relationship and I think that's one of the things a lot of people understand about Christianity it is not a religion it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as your

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Lord and Savior uh and so you can fast forward through you know a good portion of my 20s and I went to church and you know

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I did feel the the yearning to reconnect but I still was probably out there more than I should have been but the long story short is

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I decided to rededicate my life uh to Christ in my late 30s as a matter of fact shortly after I got married

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I felt the pull especially being a married man to be the head of the household to rededicate myself to Christ and that made all the difference but my associations really mattered because they kept reminding me of you know what type of person if you're going to be a leader uh the only type of leader that's a great leader is a servant leader and we know those of us who are believers and followers of Jesus Christ know that he modeled uh servant leadership for the disciples amen in fact yes it is well known that marriage is definitely an institution that can drive a man to his knees frequently in prayer yes sir and we're glad that that happened to you uh well tell us about unhyphenated america and what were the circumstances in your life that drove you or led you to establish this organization well it was actually established by uh one of my partners actually my mentor kevin jackson uh he's a fox news contributor he's the owner of the black sphere uh radio network and everything like that but kevin is a good friend and mentor and business partner for me and he actually created the brand and but then shortly after he created he realized he didn't have the time to really do give it its justice and so he and i had developed a relationship at that point i'd done some of a lot of radio with him and he said chris this is the perfect platform for you and he asked me to take it over and i've done so and so you know try to put some content out there in terms of articles but we've done a lot more radio than anything else i was at a point where i was doing three to five radio interviews a week uh which got to be a little bit much for me just because i still have a a full -time job but i was doing three to five radio interviews a weekend and i was you know doing tv interviews but at the end of the day i still feel it's important to promote the message and when people ask me oh what is unhyphenated america well i say we are exactly what we sound like uh we're an organization that believes that america's best when it's unhyphenated that if you believe in if you embrace if you promote the principles of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness then you're an american and there's no need for any uh prefix or suffix you're just an american and and was there any uh journey or evolution for back of a better lack of a better term in regard to your ideology in in regard to racial relations in regard to racism in regard to what you have witnessed uh not only in the black community but in the white community as well that happens to be predominantly liberal or even leftist in the way that they approach these issues of racial relations was there any transformation or change over the years in your own life did you at one time mirror the left in your understanding and approach or what were you always a conservative individual as far as you can remember so that's an interesting uh question um to break it down i was raised in a household where my parents my family's from detroit and uh you know my parents grew up uh during the motown era and of course they came of age uh when dr martin luther king was just before he was assassinated uh so my parents been married almost 50 years i thank god every day for that because outside of my personal relationship with christ my parents are are my foundation they're the rock that i've been able to build my life on so i'm grateful for them uh for them sticking things out when they easily could have quit uh like so many people do but um i was raised to treat people to view people first and foremost as individuals and to treat them accordingly so growing up as a military brat overseas i went to diverse school but here is the thing and this is important i'm not a diversity like thomas soul is i'm a he's like a mentor for me i don't know him personally i would love to meet him personally just spend some time in his presence uh but he's a mentor because i've listened to hundreds of hours of his youtube videos and read his books but he said you know the word diversity has become like a magical word it doesn't even have you know it doesn't even have any real meaning it's just something where people drop it on you and say boom diversity and that's supposed to mean something but for uh but i'll say diversity in terms of just having people of different ethnicities different hues if you will or as i uh said on the on tv different paint jobs it's it's a very superficial thing it's really the most superficial aspect of our humanity uh you know and i'll tell you there's a young man that i mentor and i'm sorry if i'm kind of going all around the world with this young man that i mentor he actually worked at a shoe store and i was talking to him at his store and i said you know take a look at those shoes they had a particular set of shoes and they were three or three or four different shoes all you know all the same shoe but in different colors and i said do you realize vince a victor rather i said victor do you realize that god sees us the exact same way we see those shoes that those shoes were likely cut you know from the same cow right they're leather shoes uh they're cut from the same pattern the only differentiating factor between those shoes is the dye that was used on those shoes otherwise they're identical so and the dye is the most superficial aspect and that's the way i was raised to believe and so i had friends growing up and my friends were friends who were white friends who were asian friends who were hispanic friends who were black they weren't black friends white friends or asian or wherever they were friends who were white i mean they're being white they're being hispanic they're being black was as inconsequential to me as playing with blocks as a kid and one of the purple block or one of the green blocks they're just blocks that happen to have different paint on them that was the way i was raised now i will say this life experiences and here's one of the things when i moved back stateside i had a few negative experiences and here's why i know one of the problems with african -americanism and i say this i differentiate between being an american black person versus being an african -american and when i say that i don't even have to call myself an american black person except for the fact that your listeners can't see me so they don't know what i am you know so i will define describe myself as an american black person for people who can't see me but if i just talk to you face -to -face i'm not gonna say i'm an american black man you'd be like i could see that obviously you have a permanent tan i recognize that it's kind of one of those things where it's like duh right but uh here's the thing that i think is the difference is culture matters and there are two different cultures among blacks in america there are american blacks like myself and then there's african -americanism and if you look on my birth certificate and the birth certificate of those who were born before me it says negro that is the definition excuse me alex defined our ethnicity he describes it excuse me as negro i think later on in the late 70s early 80s i think it might have said black but of course it wasn't until the 1990s or so when they started using the term african -american but that's important because african -american denotes more of a cultural thing than anything else and all um the culture of african -americanism did not really evolve or come around until literally the late 80s early 1990s when jesse messy jackson as i call him and i will not call him reverend when uh messy jackson started promoting that whole idea of african -americanism you know the irony the irony is is that i can even remember growing up in the 70s uh i was born in 62 but the memories that i have of television in the 1970s you would have racists white racists or bigoted white people always trying to connect the the blackness of someone's skin to africa it it was a it was viewed as a racist thing to say and always wanting to somehow make the connection to the the dark continent and the jungle and africa and now it seems like it's a leftist thing to do that well here's an interesting thing and i could go all the way around the world with this but um what you know i'm a creationist okay i i am a i'm one of those crazy white right wing nut jobs right who actually believe the bible as it says i have to understand what the bible says i just believe that in all in due time whether it's in this life or the next life all things will be revealed to me uh so but i just take the gospel i take the bible at its word god said it i believe the bible is the inerrant infallible inspired word of god and i believe that god more than powerful enough to protect his word uh even with different translations i think the the message remains the same amen and so the interesting thing with that is if you believe the uh the the evolutionist then they say that we all came out of africa right so i mean we're all africans then all right uh but you know if they want to say i guess they want to trace it back to uh who they call lucy the first person you know uh the eve if they want to call they found the skull which i think that's been debunked several times but they still keep trying to promote that idea that you know of course we we came from monkeys is what they want you to believe but if we all came from africa then there's really no need to talk about africa but here's and and i'm sorry i just have to kind of touch on this as i've as i've explained to my nieces and other young people that i've i've mentored i said listen if you're going to believe in evolution you have to embrace racism because of the story of evolution it basically makes it clear that those who are white i guess such like yourself you are further along on the evolutionary scale than someone who's descended from black someone black like myself that is the whole message of the evolution uh folks the message that they're putting right because i mean he's darwin and and i think that darwin's original book was uh uh the origin of species and the preservation of uh of uh preferred races yes i think a lot of people they don't know the full title of that book but once again if you followed their thought process to its only logical conclusion then you have to accept the truth if you will of racism that all people who are of browner or darker youth are inferior because we're not as for a lot far along on the evolutionary scale but you know i believe that we were created in god's image and i know clearly yes in fact i have the actual title right in front of me uh to darwin's work when it was published uh first published in 1859 it was uh titled on the origin of species by means of natural selection or the preservation of favored races in the struggle for life yeah so if you embrace darwinism then you have to be a racist you cannot you know i mean if you're double -minded if you try to embrace evolution as darwin put it and as all the people who fall behind him have built on darwin so if you're going to embrace that then be proud and call yourself a racist but if you're going to be a christian if you're going to believe that there is a god who's a creative universe and everything in it that he spoke the universe into existence that man was made in his image then you have to reject darwinism amen they're they're mutually exclusive amen and i i am amazed that this does not come up more often in debates and interactions between liberals and conservatives when the issue of the evolution versus creation debate comes up even even conservatives very rarely bring up the fact about darwin's original title and so on i'm utterly amazed you hardly ever hear about margaret sanger and her racism the founder of planned parenthood uh who actually had nazis writing for her magazine before world war ii it's astonishing to me well and she and excuse i'm having a little brain fart moment so i can't remember the name of the uh the theory that she had but the people who believed as she believed all their work was built upon uh what darwin put in then eugenics you're thinking of eugenics thank you i had a it's been a long day uh with eugenics eugenics was built on darwinism which was also built uh uh backed up by a guy named count buffon who actually believed that european not just white people not american whites but europeans were actually the uh favored preferred races they actually uh count buffon and people like him actually believed that white americans were inferior and it was only the european who was the most uh who was the favored race the most advanced race and so people don't understand the breadth and depth of all these things that are being promoted as truth by the mainstream media and by people who are devising curriculum in schools today let me repeat our email address if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for christopher harris it is chris arnson at gmail .com

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chris a r n z e n at gmail .com please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the usa and you may remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and i do want to promote a dvd i don't know if you're familiar with this christopher but you should be if you're not have you ever seen the documentary mafa 21 maafa 21 .com

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yes i'm well i haven't seen the entire documentary but i'm familiar with it and i know a lot of people associated with it yeah that's an excellent documentary on what we're speaking about right now about the origins of planned parenthood and the abortion industry the the the start the beginnings of infanticide in america through margaret sanger and uh it is quite a startling uh documentary hosted nearly entirely by black individuals and i hardly recommend it you go to m as in michael a a ephesin frank a 21 .com

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we do have some listeners who have questions for you we have joe in slovenia who says thank you both for boldly addressing the the churches today my question is does the bible anywhere teach that a person or group can or should repent for sins committed by others even their ancestors a related question i have is are contemporary caucasian christians responsible for the sins of caucasians professor caucasian professed christians of the past i am a caucasian member of the southern baptist convention however my ancestors were poor irish immigrants factory day laborers and sharecroppers during the days of slavery and racial discrimination in the usa they had absolutely no connection with institutionalized slavery or discrimination what could i possibly be what could i possibly be held responsible for in relation to the sins of people i never knew nor have any relationship to well that's an interesting one also um if we're going to come at it from the standpoint of being a well i mean just from a pure secular standpoint that's ridiculous it's absurd it's patently absurd to try to hold someone accountable today for what somebody who they never knew uh did you know 50 100 i mean one generation ago let alone multiple generations ago it's just kind of stupid when you stop and think about it but um beyond that i have to say if we're going to come at it from a christian standpoint well through one man sin entered the world amen so there's none of us who actually have a leg to stand on and call ourselves blameless see that's one of the things that the left does is they try to present they try to promote or present these uh uh favored classes if you will you know and and what they want to do and this is no disrespect to like native americans for example they they they we'll use the native americans a perfect example that they the left likes to promote uh the native americans as noble savages you know uh as they ain't never done nothing to nobody you know they they were just they were just here chilling out doing their own thing living in total peace and harmony with themselves and nature and like i said they ain't never done nothing to nobody and then along comes evil white man and wham you know wham bam there it is and the world went to hell in a handbasket because evil white man came on the to the western hemisphere at least that's what you should believe that's what you're going to believe if you follow the leftist narrative uh the reality is uh native americans indigenous americans however you prefer to refer to them are human beings and capable of just as much savagery as those in europe africa and asia in fact there's well documented uh there's tons of documentation of evidence to show that guess what they were savages and all that they did war against each other so they were just as savage as europeans that they sacrificed children that they they waged war against themselves uh they had warriors i mean that's one of those things it's like so you're are you trying to tell me that native americans that there were no warriors in native america uh native americans until the evil white man came along and now all of a sudden uh the native americans felt the need to have warriors no that's just kind of ridiculous it makes you sound stupid when you say that no they had warriors because they did war against each other but then one of the things that people try to tell you is like well yeah but they did it differently really dude you know it's just absurd it's the same thing with africa and people will try to tell you that africans once again were noble savages just kind of doing their own thing ain't never done nothing nobody and then the evil white man came along and next you know uh you know everything what the hell and had and a handbasket on the continent of africa but the reality is and i want to say this chris let's let's just stop and think about this in 2018 white folks have a real hard time surviving in sub -saharan africa i'm talking about the climate it's not a climate conducive to white people it's just hot it's not it's not a you know it's not a temperate climate that you know people i mean when have you heard of white people saying you know i'm gonna hang out in ghana not exactly tours going to cameroon and benin and and burkina i mean your white folks aren't hanging out there and that's with modern at all you know modern things available air conditioning for one and all so if it's true today how patently absurd is it to assume that in the 1500 1600 that a book full of evil white men sailed a thousand miles or whatever like that uh from portugal or whatever like that and landed on the coast of africa and a handful of them went into the bush with nets and dragged out 17 million africans and brought them to the to the west it just sounds stupid when you say it here's the reality the slave trade was already taking place you know and actually arab muslims played a huge role in the slave trade but africans were enslaving each other now normally what would happen and and this is what i've explained to young folks here's the reality of how things happen my tribe goes to war against your tribe why doesn't really matter it might be over a watering hole it might be over uh hunting grounds whatever you know man can always find a reason to uh to bring harm to his fellow man they don't really need a real reason but we you know history has shown that but let's say we decide to go to i'm going to war with you over prime hunting grounds here's the reality of human nature and human behavior it's well documented chris i'm going to kill you please don't of military age or whatever like that i'm going to kill your son also and you know what's going to happen if you have a wife and daughters whatever like that the reality is your wife and daughters will be raped now they might be brought into the tribe in some way shape or form but they're not going to be just like i mean they're going to be war prize we kill your men we take your women it's not like your women come you know gleefully like oh yeah we can't wait to go be with the winners no you know in a war the men kill each other and so that's the way it happens all over the world doesn't matter europe asia africa north america south america that is the way it has always happened so and and what ends up happening of course is that you have people uh you know but then what happened is that when the evil white man came along they presented another option where um rather than um killing off the men it's like you know if we can defeat you in battle i can actually put you in chains and sell you to the europeans or to the arab muslims or whatever like that and i'll get trinkets in exchange there's uh we'll engage in trade with them and here's something to kind of piggyback on i know i've kind of go on and on with this but uh and i know the gentleman said he's from slovenia like slovenia and slovakia and uh yes he's actually a southern baptist missionary there interesting yeah that well you know that area that that's the balkans if i remember correctly that's part of uh uh you got what macedonia bosnia herzegovina all that area if i remember correctly uh forgive me if i'm off on my geography but that area has been fighting they've been fighting against each other forever and a day and but it's just absurd to say that him if he's from bosnia or or slovenia that i'm going to look at him because of something as superficial the color of his skin and say you owe me an apology because some white folks in the united states 200 plus years ago enslaved my family that's just stupid and only stupid people say that people who don't people who think they don't say that because it's it's you sound stupid if you say it out loud yes in fact we have a uh listener uh bb in cumberland county pennsylvania who asked a question related to something that you just said is it ever discussed to your knowledge when this difference between those of darker skins and those of lighter skins is supposed to be abolished in regard to this view that only whites are guilty of racism and bigotry if this idea is perpetuated throughout our future generations it this will just become a reverse mirror image of what the past was where you have racial minorities persecuting those of lighter skins does this make sense to you yeah if i if i understand the question you know basically what are we going to get past all these things and you know here's the thing um the united states the way our form of government is supposed to work uh that's what we believe in limited government as a christian constitutional conservative i believe in limited government what is the fact that we have a government that is allowed to buy vote you know and they buy vote by promising you stuff you know you give me your vote and i will reallocate i'll redistribute funds that were taken by force uh from one party and give it to another party and you know you will all as the saying goes if you rob peter to pay paul you'll always have the vote of paul and so what those people what the left has done is they've mastered this whole thing of continuing to to promote the idea of blacks in particular but minorities overall being in a grieved party for the simple fact that as long as i can tell you that you are a victim of the quote -unquote evil white man you will give me your vote and i can use the court the monopoly on force that the federal government has to take funds from one party typically the quote evil white man and give it to you just keep voting me in and i'll keep doing this but really here's the problem uh chris the lives of those the lives of paul if you will have not improved has not improved at all i mean yet there's been some more material improvement but in terms of the more important things like you know the economic advancement uh the the strengthening of families none of that has improved education has not improved since black folks in particular minorities in general uh bought into the great society from uh president lyndon johnson who i refer to as big daddy pimping johnson ha ha ha he's the poverty to be one of the poverty if i should say but yeah uh you know lyndon johnson is a poverty temp um he used that to continue to uh that's a wedge issue to stratify things and really the only way to minimize that quite frankly is to reduce the ability or eliminate preferably the ability of those in government to be able to do favors like that to to reallocate funds you know and now what i would love to see is i'd love to see an end to uh congressional black caucus districts those majority minority districts because all that's done is it's created a class of people uh as booker t washington would say is that uh who have no interest in uh making things better they just want to keep their jobs and that's all the congressional black caucus has done is empower themselves and they live like kings and queens while the people trapped in their congressional district continue to live in squalor and despair yeah and um i think one of the points that bb in crumlin county was making in her question is the inherent racism in assuming that people can be the only uh guilty parties of the sin of racism if they are lighter skinned such as caucasians this is in and of in and of itself a racist and bigoted and hateful ideology well you know it's even more sad than that chris that i don't think people have uh really kind of fought this through and taken it to its only logical conclusion in order for you to say that you have to embrace the idea that you are inferior so for blacks minorities whatever like that too but you have to you have to mentally see yourself as being inferior so that you can be perpetually agreed but when you sit there and you realize once again this is why i have a problem more in particular like if we're calling ourselves christian then fellow christians are who we should really be dealing with first and foremost because if you call yourself a christian then once again you are accepting just by the fact that you've accepted jesus christ as your lord and savior you have to accept the fact that you were created in god's image that there is no he did not create a white race or a black race or an asian race he created one race of people one blood right it's through the blood that the blood mentioned in the bible multiple times regardless of our paint job chris if you and i are both uh a negative or b5 i forgot the different blood types regardless of our paint job you could be bleeding out and if i have a similar blood type then we can perform a blood transfusion and i'll help save your life right and you're not going to turn black because you all of a sudden you know yeah we have uh we have sterling in greensboro north carolina who asks uh did your anthropology benefit from creation ministries like ken ham's answers in genesis and creation ministries international absolutely in fact uh with a little bit of time we have left i'll try to make this quick um because of some of my mentors i i committed myself to doing something that all christians should do read the bible from front to back from genesis to revelation read it commit about it it's going to listen if you're going to do a problem it's going to take you about a year to do it properly i mean you could speed through it but if you really want to do it properly it's going to take you about a year i decided actually it actually took me two years because every night before i went to bed for two years every night i might have only got through a few lines uh because sometimes i was dead tired but every night for two years i read the bible from genesis to revelation and then i devoted another year to studying just the book of genesis and the science behind genesis uh the historical documentation all that stuff uh i mean like to decide like studying where did the descendants of noah go from you know ham shem and joppa you know uh were the cities that are out there that are named after the descendants of ham shem and joppa and all those and thank god yes for creation uh uh ministries i've watched all the videos i've read all they're coming i've went through their whole site and and research a lot of other sites so yes i encourage others to do that that's why i'm rock solid you know and i'm saying i have all the answers chris but you can't shake me because not only do i have the faith i've done enough research to have the wisdom and knowledge to understand that the bible is the inerrant infallible inspired word of god and that history lines up with the bible much more so than what the left tries to say their version of history does we have rj in white plains new york who says i have heard from the more conservative individuals who happen to have black skin that those who are in the limelight those who are political pundits and political activists are far more left than your average black person in a pew in a church especially when it comes to the equating of the black race with homosexuality is this correct in your experience that your average black person may be a lot more conservative than the public might think uh yeah if i'm understanding what you're saying yeah so is he saying like people i guess you would call a media pundit uh is he saying that pundits are further to the left or black folks or in general are further to the left no i think what uh rj is saying is that political pundits i mean you you are an unusual one because as far as political pundits in the media are concerned most of the time with the exception of fox news you will see black political pundits defending leftist ideas and okay we'll be swallowing the lie that homosexuality is should be treated is an issue that should be treated just as people who are of a particular skin color ethnicity or uh nation of origin okay and to address that you know once again excuse me for being blunt sometimes but that's also stupid it's really stupid to sit there and think about it because at the end of the day uh unless i'm you know i guess you would say flaming right you wouldn't know that somebody is a homosexual unless they tell you but if you're not completely utterly colorblind when i walk out of the door um you know you're going to see a six foot an old black man right i mean a six foot man who was black i mean you're going to see that it's it's evident i can't hide it i wouldn't try to hide it but it's something it's right there in your face but most of the political pundits out there yeah i mean they're making their living and once again booker t washington made this clear i would encourage your listeners uh please i'm a big proponent of his i encourage your listeners to go and study booker t washington he in my opinion is the great one of the greatest americans arguably and and without a doubt the greatest american black man this country has ever produced and i think if your listeners go and listen to him or read him his book up from slavery he died and was born 1856 died in 1915 i think if you study him in depth uh you'll come away fascinated and amazed but yeah a lot of the pundits who are out there they're eating off of this they're getting paid to promote the leftist agenda and it's just a stupid agenda it doesn't pass the smith test if you really uh you know you once you put a little um critical analysis to it it doesn't really stand up um but yes the average black person i'm in i'm in maryland right now in prince george's county maryland which is the wealthiest predominant black county in the country and by and large on a personal basis if you have conversations with the average black person and you do not mention uh r or d you know republican or democrat you'll hear a very conservative message from the average black person in america is only when you start mentioning specific things as being republican or democrat or god forbid you mention donald trump's name then all of a sudden it's like a light switch uh it's a pavlovian response and i know some people take issue with me saying pavlovian response but if they actually know what that term means and they understand it's a pavlovian response you've been indoctrinated you've been trained to automatically salivate to bark to get angry when somebody says republican but if you ask if you do man on the street interviews and you ask somebody and you present to them a particular policy and 99 you know i'm not i'm not i'm not going to throw out a percentage but let's say a large percentage of blacks would agree with republican and conservative policies on their face without knowing who created those policies or who was behind those policies well we are out of time and the time just flew by i definitely want to have you back and hopefully the next time we'll even have you on for two hours if you're available for that long but i want to remind our listeners that unhyphenated america can be found at unhyphenated america .org

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unhyphenated america .org and do you have any other contact information that you care to share christopher harris uh you can find me on the on our facebook page which is just unhyphenated america and uh if you would listen in tomorrow morning or watch tomorrow morning i will be on fox and friends uh tomorrow morning uh friday around 7 20 a .m