August 23, 2021 Show with Virgil Walker & Darrell Bernard Harrison on “Just Thinking: About the State”

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Intro and Proverbs 27:17

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 23rd day of August 2021.

Once again, I want to thank all of you in my audience who have been pouring in notes of condolences and promises that you will keep me and my family in after the loss of my oldest brother, John, at the age of 76 last week, who was battling a critical stage emphysema, cancer, and pneumonia.

And I thank all of you. I can't thank you enough for your prayers. I ask that you continue to pray for all of us, and especially perhaps my late brother's widow, Jan. But please continue to keep all of us in prayer.

Thank you so much for your Christlike, heartfelt compassion and concern. Today, I am so delighted to have back on the program two of my very favorite guests, and that is, no exaggeration, Virgil Walker, who is Executive Director of Operations at G3 Ministries and co-host of the Just Thinking podcast, and Daryl Bernard Harrison, who is Dean of Social Media at Grace To You, the media ministry of Dr. John MacArthur.

And he is the other half of the Just Thinking podcast. And today we are going to be addressing their new book, which is going to be in print any day now, Just Thinking About the State. We'll also be announcing the upcoming G3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome back to Iron Trump and Zion Radio, Virgil Walker and Daryl Bernard.

Harrison. Thanks so much for having us, Chris. Chris, thanks for having us, and we echo the sentiments of your audience in the passing of your older brother. So please accept our sincerest condolences.

On your and your family's loss. Yeah, I really appreciate that more than you'll ever know. And Virgil, for those of our listeners, I'm sure it will probably just be a tiny percentage of my listeners who are unfamiliar with you and G3, but why don't you tell our listeners about you and your fairly recently appointed position as Executive Director.

Of Operations at G3 Ministries. Yeah, I'm excited to be here at G3 Ministries, known probably to most people at G3 conferences that have just transformed into a ministry-based conference, really wanting to provide a lot of resources and materials for others to participate in and experience.

I've been here since, gosh, I came on board in December, but actually moved out here around the June time frame, and so it was about that time that I got kind of boots on the ground, so to speak, here in Georgia.

This is Daryl's old stomping ground, so I'm excited to be where my brother Daryl is. My thought is that no one state can handle both of us in the same state at the same time, so it was in God's providence that he moved Daryl out to California, recognizing that I would soon be here in the offices of G3 Ministries here in Douglasville, Georgia.

So no, couldn't be more excited about what God is doing in and with G3 Ministries through G3 conferences and the like, so thanks for allowing me to.

Shout that out. Why don't you tell us a little bit about the upcoming G3 conference, where both you and Daryl will be on the speaking roster. Yeah, I couldn't be more excited about.

That, the upcoming G3 conference. I've been a part of G3 conferences since 2017, and both Daryl and I have kind of tag-teamed. I'd be there one year and, you know, hoping that Daryl would be able to be, and then finally in 2020, we both were there together, which was an absolute blast doing a live G3, Just Thinking podcast during the G3 conference, and this year it is absolutely going to be lights out amazing.

We anticipate larger audiences than ever before. We anticipate more than 6 ,000 attendees at this year's conference. We have more than 20 speakers from around the country and literally around the world that will be participating as a part of the G3 conferences.

Daryl and I, along with a number of other folks from John MacArthur, from James White, from Stephen Lawson, Dr. Stephen Lawson, from Votie Balcombe, I mean, you name it. Everybody who's anybody in evangelicalism, so to speak, will be a part of this particular conference.

Dr. John MacArthur, I will be speaking one night. Just a whole host of different events going on. In addition to the major conference, I will have pre-conference schedules and things of that nature that are available.

If anybody has not gotten a chance to register, I'd encourage them to not walk but run to their nearest spot where they can get access to the internet and jump on g3men .org and get registered for any one of our pre-conferences that we're going to have available, our Expeditional Preaching Conference that we'll have available, as well as the G3 National Conference.

It's going.

To be an amazing time. Amen, and you're going to be hearing a lot more about the G3 conference because I am going to be, God willing, continuing to interview the speakers that will be featured there, as I already have interviewed most of them, but I'm planning on interviewing some for a second and third time and some for the first time.

So keep your ears open for more information about the G3 conference. And of course, we advertise this wonderful event every day in the show, and I'm so thrilled to be manning an Iron Trip and Zion Exhibitors booth for the fourth year in a row at the G3 conference.

This is really the highlight of my year. That's not an exaggeration. That's not hyperbole flattery to you, Virgil. This is the truth. It's the highlight of my year, and I'm very excited about it. Now, Darrell Bernard Harrison, you are in the same position, really, as Virgil, in that the great likelihood is the vast majority of my audience already knows who you are, and they already know what Grace to You Ministries is and who John MacArthur is, but why don't you tell our audience about, for the sake of those who are new Christians or first-time listeners who are unfamiliar with you, tell our listeners about your recent newly appointed position as Dean of Social Media at Grace to You.

Yeah, thanks for the opportunity, Chris,.

And let me just say good afternoon to those in your listening audience, wherever they may be listening from. Yeah, that's correct. So my formal title here at Grace to You is Dean of Social Media, and under that title, I'm responsible for helping develop and execute the social media strategy for Grace to You, just making sure that everything we do on social media aligns with the purpose statement of Grace to You, which is simply to make available the teaching ministry, the teachings, the sermons, and other resources from John MacArthur available to as many people around the world as possible, and to the extent that we can leverage social media to do that, that falls within my purview here at Grace to You.

For those of you, of your listeners, rather, who may be unfamiliar with Grace to You, Grace to You is the media ministry of John MacArthur. Basically, what we do is we at Grace to You are responsible for making available over the internet and through other means the preaching ministry of John MacArthur, which John, when John preaches from the pulpit of Grace Community Church here in Southern California, we make those sermons available on the Grace to You website at gty .org.

So if your listeners want to hear any of John MacArthur's, we have more than 3 ,500 of John MacArthur's sermons available on the Grace to You website, all downloadable for free. You can either listen to them online for free or you can download them for free at gty .org.

And John MacArthur has been the pastor at Grace Community Church for 52 years now. His first sermon was delivered there in February of 1969. His wife Patricia and John reside in Southern California, and it's just an honor and a privilege for me to be here and be a part of the team here at Grace to You, which I have been now since January of 2019, when my wife Melissa and I relocated from Atlanta.

Out here to Southern California. Well, I also don't know if you are aware of this, Darrell, but your executive director, Phil Johnson, is the most frequently interviewed guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in our history since launching in 2005.

Wow. I did not know that, but I'm not surprised. Listen, Phil Johnson, as you said, Chris, who's the executive director here at Grace to You, Phil Johnson is a brilliant theologian. He is a brilliant theologian.

He has a mind like few individuals I've ever met. And on the flip side, Phil is such a personable, humble, down-to-earth guy. I mean, at the same time where he expresses and exhibits a brilliant theological mind, he's also that guy that you could just sit down at a Waffle House and have some hash browns or a waffle with and just kind of shoot the breeze with.

Does it have to be Waffle House? For Phil Johnson, yes, it does have to be Waffle House. That much I can tell you about Phil.

One of the reasons I asked you that is that there is a Waffle House here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and for some bizarre reason, even though it's on one of the most major highways in Carlisle and in Pennsylvania, for that matter, the parking lot is almost always empty.

And I've never seen a Waffle House with an empty parking lot before. You know something, Chris, I want to.

Just take an aside here and steer away from the Waffle House for just a second. And me being from Atlanta, being from the South, listen, I'm used to seeing a Waffle House literally at every highway intersection.

Okay, so I'm not surprised that it's located there on a major freeway. However, would you know, speaking of did you know, did you know that Carlisle, Pennsylvania is the number three domestic market for the Just Thinking Podcast behind Houston and Dallas?

You're kidding. No, I kid you not. Carlisle, Pennsylvania is our number three listener market domestically for the Just Thinking Podcast. Houston, Texas is number one. Los Angeles is number two. And then.

Carlisle, Pennsylvania is number three. Wow, that is something. I'm excited about that. Um, we got we have to have a monument built to you and I'm actually.

If you put up a monument, Chris, they'll probably want to tear it down.

Somebody's gonna remember those Black Lives Matter episodes we did.

Well, I'm amazed and I'm angry that there isn't a significant and adequate monument to Jim Thorpe, the great Native American Olympian and athlete. Somebody told me there's some kind of a plaque somewhere, but he deserves a at least a six foot statue as far as I'm concerned.

And maybe I'll even one day rally up a fundraiser to have one erected. But he was born here for our listeners who are wondering why I'm talking about Jim Thorpe. Yeah. And you know, Chris,.

I'm a huge fan. I'm a huge I'm somewhat of a cinephile and I'm a huge fan of classic films. And one of my favorite films is where Burt Lancaster played the role. Oh, wow. Yes. Yes. Play the lead role in that biopic.

Isn't that racial appropriation? Well, it would be today. Yeah, absolutely. It would be. Yeah. He played the role of Jim Thorpe in that film. And it's a very well done film. One of my favorite black and white films.

Of all time. Well, it's very humble of you to give Burt Lancaster such kudos because he was a vehement anti-Christian, just to let you know. Yeah. But I mean, what would you expect out of Hollywood? That's right.

Well, he was a great actor, though. He's a great actor. Props for that. Before I even go into our main theme, which I'm very excited about your new book that is going to be released in a matter of days.

Just thinking about the state published by Founders Press. And by the way, another bit of trivia, Darrell, Tom Askle, my dear friend, going back to the I'd say the late 1980s, perhaps he was the first person to tell me about you.

And this is before you even hooked up with Virgil in the Just Thinking podcast. I think Just Thinking might have been just a blog. Yeah. And he said, you've got to get Darrell Bernard Harrison on your show.

I just thought I'd let you know that.

Yeah, I appreciate that, Chris. Yeah, Tom and I go back about four years, but we need to come back on for me to be able to tell you that story and how that all how Tom connects to my being here at Grace To You and me meeting him a few years ago.

It's just a great story about how God brought us together and how God worked out of our first meeting one another a few years ago.

Amen. Well, the thing I wanted to ask, a couple of things I wanted to ask you both before we go into our main theme, just because so many people have asked me this when they've heard you on this broadcast.

The number one is they wanted me to tell them how to most accurately describe the theological positions you both hold. Like, for instance, I've heard, are those guys Reformed Baptists? Are they Presbyterian?

Are they Dispensational Calvinists? On and on and on. But if you care to articulate, we'll start with Darrell, and then we'll go to Virgil, how you best like to describe yourself theologically in a summary form.

Yeah, I mean, if I had to leverage one of those categories, I'd probably just describe myself as a Reformed Baptist. When my wife Melissa and I moved here from Atlanta, we were actually members of a Reformed Baptist congregation in Conyers, Georgia, which is about 45 miles east of Atlanta.

And so it was within that congregation that my, which we were members there for five years, but we came out of a Southern Baptist denomination church. I was a member of Charles Stanley's Church, First Baptist Atlanta for 23 years.

But when I was introduced to Reformed Theology through hearing people like John MacArthur and Dr. R .C. Sproul, you know, my convictions became more aligned with Reformed Theology and the Doctrines of Grace.

However, I would draw the line with respect to Reformed Theology in that I am not a Paedo-Baptist. I do not subscribe to Paedo-Baptism, so I disagree with some of my Reformed brethren there. But as far as my convictions concern theologically, I would probably fall more aligned with the Reformed Baptist category.

Now, who was your pastor in Conyers, Georgia?

His name is Butch Rumble. Pastor Butch Rumble, just a brilliant pastor, brilliant expositor, Georgia Tech graduate, and he's just one example of how the Holy Spirit can gift a man who didn't go to seminary, but who is one of the best expositors I've ever heard.

The church there is Rockdale Community Church, if anyone happens to be listening to me within the Metro Atlanta area. Rockdale Community Church is located in Conyers, Georgia, pastored by Pastor Butch Rumble, and just a great pastor, great preacher, and a great brother.

Got to get him on the show then.

He'll be a wonderful guest for you, Chris.

And I'm sure there are many professional wrestlers very envious of his name. Virgil, tell us about yourself in a summary form theologically.

Sure. I got a chance to meet Pastor Butch Rumble at the Southern Baptist Convention during that time at an event that I think Founders was hosting, and I got a chance to run into him. He's every bit of his name, just a short guy with just an intense, passionate love for the Lord and a love for God's people, and I think when you meet him or see him, that's immediate.

He recognized me and knew that I had worked with Darrell and immediately made known to me who he was, and just a great, great guy. From a standpoint of summary, from my point of view, I come from such an eclectic background.

Darrell and I talked about our backgrounds on the show and how varied they are theologically. It's been a journey from being a part of the prosperity gospel and all of that coming out of a lot of Pentecostalism and the like into eventually Southern Baptist circles, where I was there in Omaha, Nebraska.

I was attending an SBC church there, a very traditionalist SBC church there, and was actually serving as a discipleship pastor there. Prior to coming on staff, though, I had really cut my teeth on Reformed theology, and it's funny how that came to be.

There was a gentleman who was at the church who introduced me to a book by Dr. R .C. Spoles called What is Reformed Theology? And so upon reading that, really came into an understanding of Reformed theology and a Reformed view of soteriology and really just took a deep dive into Scripture.

So being here in Douglasville at Praise Mill Church, this is actually my first time being in a Reformed Baptist setting. And again, I could not articulate more how much I feel like I'm finally home and really enjoy the worship, enjoy the purpose of worship and the thoughtfulness about worship services and just a really Reformed ecclesiology.

And I mean, we were just having conversations around that today as we just came out of experiencing the Lord's Day. So if I were to describe myself, that would probably be it, Reformed Baptist to the point that Darrell made.

I don't hold to any kind of a pale Baptist idea. Definitely believers' baptism is the way that I see that in the traditional sense of the Reformed Baptist theology and the like. And so that's kind of my deal in a nutshell.

I don't have a problem with embracing being Reformed or Reformed Baptist, but I'd argue that my positions really carry weight from a standpoint of what Scripture has to say about particular issues as it pertains to subjects we interact with on our podcast.

By the way, that book the Lord used to open up your eyes to the Reformed faith, what is the Reformed faith it's currently called, right? The R .C. Sproul book?

Yes, yes, yes.

It's What is Reformed Theology.

That book used to be called Grace Unknown, and I love that book. And I gave it to a Pentecostal elder back in the 1990s, I believe it was. He is a dear friend, Dan Buttafuoco. He's also a sponsor of the show.

And I gave that book to him on Christmas Eve, and he looked at me and he said, Are you kidding me? You're giving me propaganda on Christmas Eve as a gift? All right, I'll take it. I'll read it. You know, he was very dismissive of it.

He called me up on New Year's Day that year and said, Chris, I haven't been to sleep. I read the book cover to cover.

I agree with it.

I'm Reformed now. And he is still Reformed, although he is still Pentecostal. He is theologically Reformed when it comes to soteriology. That's awesome. So if you're listening, here's my shout out to you, Dan.

And I hope to see you again soon for a time of fellowship. We're going to our first break right now. And when we come back, we're going to dive into the book. Oh, wait, one more question. I'll ask it now and have you guys answer it when you come back.

But the other question that I frequently get asked is, do you two disagree on any significant issues? And we'll have you respond to that when we come back. And after that question is answered, we will dive right into a discussion of your book, Just Thinking About the State.

If anybody has any questions, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

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Theological Identity and Reformed Baptist Convictions

That's W for World, N for News, G for Group, dot org forward slash podcast. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnsen, your host of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. If you just tuned us in, our guests today for the full two hours are Virgil Walker, Executive Director of Operations at G3 Ministries, and also Daryl Bernard Harrison, Dean of Social Media at Grace To You.

They are both co-hosts of the Just Thinking podcast. If you have a question about our theme today, Just Thinking, about the state, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

We will broaden the theme for questions to anything involved with the woke movement, critical race theory, or anything similar that has been a frequent topic of discussion on the Just Thinking podcast by our guests today.

Before the break, brethren, you probably remember me asking another frequently asked question that I receive from my listeners about you two. Are there any major areas of disagreement that you have with one another?

And let's start with Virgil this time.

Biggest area of disagreement, and that's been ongoing, but now that I've moved into what's known as SEC country, is football. I have to remind Daryl that my Oklahoma Sooners are just the team to beat.

Now, he's going to lay claim to the Georgia Bulldogs, but the reality is that is not his team. That is not the team who he carries water for, and he knows it, and so that's probably the biggest area of disagreement.

I'm going to let him tell you who his team is, but that's probably the biggest area of disagreement for Daryl and myself.

Let me put it this way. We have a difference of preference, and I'm going to throw Virgil curveball right here, so I'm not going to even pick up on his college football reference. I'm going to just let that stay where it is.

I'm going to let that dog lie right where it is right there, and I'm going to keep it within the context in which I think the listener asked the question. We do have a difference of preference in Bible translations.

Virgil prefers the ESV in public. So when you want to talk about something that's not my team, see, the ESV really isn't his team, but in public, that's his team. But we're not going to mention what his private Bible translation team is.

We're just going to keep this public. My preference for Bible translation is, see how I threw that back at you, Virgil? My preference of Bible translation is the New American Standard, which I tongue-in-cheek call, for those who listen to the Just Thinking podcast, they'll be familiar with my tongue-in-cheek reference of the New American Standard Bible as the non-Armenian Standard Bible.

Translation. But yes, Virgil prefers the ESV in public, but I prefer the NASB.

Well, I knew there was a reason I like you better than Virgil, because the NASB are a major sponsor of this program. In fact, I've got to get you, if you're willing to record an ad, just like I have the other ads, of pastors, scholars, and theologians who love the NASB, who prefer it, giving their little plug in the ad.

So maybe we can work on that.

Yeah, we can work on that, Chris. Be glad to.

Oh, great. I'm surprised you didn't say that you were a fan of the Princeton Tigers, since you're a graduate of Princeton University.

Not a fan of the Princeton Tigers, and just to correct one point, I'm not a graduate of Princeton Seminary. I'm a graduate of, there's a special theological program at Princeton Seminary that's called the Black Theology and Leadership Institute, the Black Theology and Leadership Institute at Princeton Seminary.

So I am a graduate of that program that's out of Princeton Seminary.

Ah, okay.

Right.

Well, I was often wondering how you survived a theologically leftist institute like Princeton University. Now I understand.

Yes, well, the program itself that I was enrolled in, that I was a part of a cohort of, is deeply entrenched. The program exists to teach Black liberation theology. This is a program that's at Princeton Seminary.

The Princeton Seminary of Gerhardtus Voss, the Princeton Seminary of B .B. Warfield, the Princeton Seminary formerly of J. Gresham Machen, now has a full-fledged endowed program that teaches the Black liberation theology of James Cone.

So how did you survive in that?

Well, my answer to that question, Chris, is going to reveal to you and your listeners an aspect of who I am that not many people know about. So I have a tendency from a persona standpoint, personality standpoint, I'm really rather introvert.

I would much rather stay behind the scenes of things. I'm not really an out front, shine the spotlight on me kind of person. I'm really not. However, when it comes to matters of truth, I can be a pit bull.

I can be a pit bull. So what got me into Princeton when they launched the Black Theology and Leadership Program, they were offering on an application basis, 50 fellowships, 50 fellowships that they were going to award to their Black Theology and Leadership Institute.

And this was a global application process. So 50 scholarships, anyone from around the world could apply. And I was awarded one of the fellowships. What intrigued me about the program was the fact that I knew that I did not agree with the theology of James Cone.

I did not buy into Black Theology, Black Liberation Theology. I knew enough of it to know that that was not biblical Orthodox theology. So I applied for the fellowship in order to bring an Orthodox voice to that program.

And I was accepted. I was awarded one of the fellowships. And within my cohort, I was the only non-subscriber to Black Liberation Theology that was in the cohort. And my cohort was comprised of THMs, PhDs from Harvard Divinity School, Yale Divinity School, Chicago Theological Seminary, Duke Theological Seminary, Union Theological Seminary.

So I was totally outnumbered. But by the time I graduated, I had been given the nickname Doctrine Daryl because I kept bringing people back to what the scripture said. I was totally outnumbered, probably 70 to 1.

And I'm not exaggerating, 70 to 1. But the truth, I was there to defend the truth. I was there to defend the truth. But it's amazing how woke Princeton Seminary now, maybe second only to Union Theological Seminary, is arguably the wokest seminary in America right now.

I believe it, unfortunately.

Yes, unfortunately. When you look at the history of Princeton Theological Seminary and the theological giants that have exited the hallways of that once venerable institution, it's just unbelievable the theological worldview that now is being propagated at that institution.

It's just unbelievable.

I'm sure the best thing about that seminary is... I'm sorry, Virgil, are you saying something? I'm sorry, I thought I heard Virgil saying something. I'm sure the best thing about that seminary now is the cemetery nearby.

Yes, so if you're ever in Princeton, New Jersey, you must go by the cemetery, one of the most historical, underrated, one of the most underrated historical sites in America. You must go by the Princeton Seminary, not just to see the grave sites of some of the brilliant professors and theologians who taught there, but the Battle of Princeton, if you're a history nerd like myself, the Battle of Princeton is one of the most under-taught, under-appreciated events in the history of this nation that no one knows about.

So if you're ever in Princeton, New Jersey, it's a must that you go by the Princeton Seminary. You can also see the house where Albert Einstein stayed when he taught there. A lot of history there, but from a theological standpoint, Princeton Seminary is it's a shell of itself.

It's a shell of what it was historically.

I'm assuming the Battle of Princeton was Revolutionary War?

Yes, that's correct.

Well, Virgil, I feel like an idiot that I didn't have. You guys give a little description of the Just Thinking podcast. So Virgil, why don't you give our audience a little information that whets their appetite to begin listening if they aren't.

Already? Sure. The Just Thinking podcast really was one of those things that Daryl mentioned earlier, a little bit about his personality, which is one of being an introvert. And that was definitely the case when we, myself, and the producer, Dwayne Atkinson, approached him about doing the podcast.

He had been writing for years. You mentioned that earlier that Tom Askell had been familiar with his writing. And as a result of the blog, Dwayne had identified Daryl as somebody he wanted to talk to and interview on his podcast on The Bar.